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Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 12 Discussion


Jun 23, 2012 9:52 PM

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ViciousOne said:

Good films/shows/etc don't end with the notion that "you should have read X if you want to understand the ending." They make everything come together in the end. You also don't expect for someone who brutally gets the life choked out of them to live. But w/e.


I think it's funny you mention LotR. Because if you just jump in and start at the last LotR film it definitely expects its audience to have seen the first two to fully grasp everything. It's not unreasonable for a prequel written for the purpose of expanding on an existing story to make more sense if you're actually familiar with the story it's based on. A large portion of the intended audience for this show is going into it already knowing how it would end. I certainly didn't watch it expecting it to waste valuable runtime recapping a 60+ hour VN just to satisfy people who want to jump in here without any knowledge of the franchise.

It's really pretty obvious what happens with Aoi. Kotomine is a good healer and he's right there watching the whole thing. So he heals her for added suffering. This is spelled out explicitly in the LN (it's not shown but Kotomine's inner monologue indicates he's going to heal her) but it's not like it's something hard to guess since if you were paying attention you would know Kotomine is a sadist and also a talented healer.
 
Jun 23, 2012 9:55 PM

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lol Gilgamesh in the nude.

Overall, great season and a satisfying ending. I wanted more fighting, especially with Berserker but oh well. 10/10



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Jun 23, 2012 9:58 PM

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Overall, it was a decent anime. Fight sequences were great. I loved most of the servants and the machinations of the masters. Music was good, but they repeated some of the key songs so many times it kind of lost its "awesomeness".

If only this anime had decent pacing... They crammed all the action packed sequences into the penultimate episode, managing to rush even possible thing, while taking to the time in the epilogue to show us things that should not take so much time.

i.e. Kirei and Rin's interaction honestly could have been cut in half and that time better spent on the explanation of how Gil was reincarnated and/or the interaction between Saber and Lancelot

Too much time was spent on dreary things that did nothing to advance or explain the plot and when the time came for some explanations, they never came. New viewers to the series would probably be confused why some things suddenly happen.

Great action, great characters, great music, great plot setup, absolutely terrible pacing.
 
Jun 23, 2012 9:59 PM

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dio_brando86 said:

It's really pretty obvious what happens with Aoi. Kotomine is a good healer and he's right there watching the whole thing. So he heals her for added suffering. This is spelled out explicitly in the LN (it's not shown but Kotomine's inner monologue indicates he's going to heal her) but it's not like it's something hard to guess since if you were paying attention you would know Kotomine is a sadist and also a talented healer.


You dont even need that.It's not like someone did a hole in her chest or she was next to the fucking F.L.E.I.J.A(Nunnally)and she miraculously survived without ANY after effects/injuries.
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Jun 23, 2012 10:04 PM

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Gil nude isn't fan service right? He was nude in the novels? LOL

And why did Kiritsugu die so early? Too much time accels?
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:08 PM

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Kurogashi said:

And why did Kiritsugu die so early? Too much time accels?


He was cursed, in the scene where he snaps Angra Mainyu/Iri's neck, when she's screaming at him that "Angra Mainyu curses you!" In the LN her hand is digging into his arm and the mud flows into him there. Wasn't quite as clear in the anime.

That's why he can't get to Ilya too, his body is slowly breaking down and he's lost most ability to use magecraft so he can't get through the bounded field around the castle.
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:09 PM

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Kurogashi said:
Gil nude isn't fan service right? He was nude in the novels? LOL

And why did Kiritsugu die so early? Too much time accels?


Yes he was nude in the novels.

Kiritsugu:
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Jun 23, 2012 10:11 PM

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Well, it has been an absolutely incredible ride through the fate series for me, with this episode capping it all off. Started off randomly playing F/SN on a whim and haven't looked back since. From all the media I have consumed in my life, I would have to say that the fate series may be my favorite series of all time. I cannot even begin to explain what makes me like all the works in the series so much. I have not once seen a series where I have liked so many of the characters. Hell I could fill my top ten character list with all Fate characters and justify it. This series can just evoke so much emotion out of someone,there's just no way someone couldn't at least tear up at one point during the series. Man I could just go on and on, but I'll stop myself before I go too far and get off track. I would do anything for Ufotable to animate another fate story (any route is fine really a redo of fate, UBW, HF, HA or I know this is crazy,but an original work). I know it's not likely to happen because of damn deen though.

Anyway, no doubt a 10/10 from me. I'll eagerly await the Blu Rays, as it was obvious that various scenes were cut from a few of the episodes (this episode included). But for now it's off to discover some other type-moon works (plugging my way through Tsukihime right now (visual novel of course) and have KnK just waiting for me to watch it).
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:16 PM

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Okay any links about the blood/mud thing from the grail? What exactly is it? Am I suppose to accept that the grail is inherently cursed/broken and everybody who goes after it is just being fooled?

So, the grail just gobbles up everybody and spits back out those who it deems worthy? Is the grail just doing this for fun? (Which is what I'm guessing why it let Kirei/Gil alive... Or is there a different reason?).
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:18 PM
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ssjokg said:
With that logic LOTR should have skipped everyone and everything, except Sam and Frodo, since they had nothing to do with the destruction of the ring after the Fellowship.
No, with my logic LoTR did things correctly. I'm not even going to bother since you obviously don't know the difference between a Epic and a normal story.

ssjokg said:
So they should explain everything about the Grail,mud,minorcharacters( you mean the FSN protagonists?), "some guy"Shirou,why Saber died(seriously this doesnt even need prior knowledge ),Gil said that it was because of the gods(yeah he means the grail)
Yea, convenient plot ass pulls are nice. Someone gets puts into a situation where they should die but manages to overcome the odds "Because the gods said so." We call that deus ex machina. Maybe if we knew the extent of the power of the Grail before hand this would be acceptable but we don't.

ssjokg said:
Yeah, because"GOOD" prequels become tiring by explaining everything that you ALREADY KNOW again and again.

You arent an expert physician either.
Good prequels do it in a way that it DOESN'T become tiring. Not only because it's a prequel but because they understand not everyone may have seen/read the material that came before it.

No I'm not a physician either but I understand cinematography and context clues. It didn't imply that she could be alive or give off a sense of neutrality, everything implied that she was dead.

ssjokg said:
And MANY,MANY,MANY people said to read FSN first or at least watch the anime.It's like the island ep with where everyone was like"Wat?Vampire?Zombies?".Although Dead Apostles arent really explained in FZ ,Nasuverse is like Marvel, you cant know everything just by reading Spiderman or X-men.
The zombies didn't bother me. It's a world of magic and supernatural crap so I don't understand why zombies would be questionable when they have so many other crazy things going on.

I don't expect to know everything about the world. Again, they completely skipped over what was lead to be the main focus of the anime. The Holy Grail. The issue isn't about the future protagonists but the fact that they showed them WITHOUT giving exposition on what was the main focus the past 23 episodes. If you're incapable of understanding why that is a problem, I'm done here.

dio_brando86 said:
I think it's funny you mention LotR. Because if you just jump in and start at the last LotR film it definitely expects its audience to have seen the first two to fully grasp everything.
Which is why I described LoTR in the context of the destruction of the ring. You may not understand anything else but you understand that they are trying to destroy the ring. The conclusion exemplifies this.

But as I said in previous posts, LoTR is an Epic so the way things play out and what can be expected of the reader is different.

dio_brando86 said:
It's really pretty obvious what happens with Aoi. Kotomine is a good healer and he's right there watching the whole thing. So he heals her for added suffering. This is spelled out explicitly in the LN (it's not shown but Kotomine's inner monologue indicates he's going to heal her) but it's not like it's something hard to guess since if you were paying attention you would know Kotomine is a sadist and also a talented healer.
It isn't obvious. Without that monologue there was no reason to believe she would live. Why do you think so many who have only watched this anime were surprised to see that she was still alive.

So you really think he planned the whole thing for Kariya to ALMOST kill Aoi and then heal her? Based on Kirei's nature he would have left her for dead. Sure he like suffering but throughout the show Kirei is personified as being pragmatic first and foremost. She had no further use to him. This isn't the same situation where he healed Kariya. He healed Kariya to watch him continue to suffer but it was ultimately to further his own goals.

A sadist relishes in the pain of others and she's completely unaware that she's suffering so again, she's of no use to him.
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:26 PM
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ViciousOne said:
ssjokg said:
With that logic LOTR should have skipped everyone and everything, except Sam and Frodo, since they had nothing to do with the destruction of the ring after the Fellowship.
No, with my logic LoTR did things correctly. I'm not even going to bother since you obviously don't know the difference between a Epic and a normal story.

ssjokg said:
So they should explain everything about the Grail,mud,minorcharacters( you mean the FSN protagonists?), "some guy"Shirou,why Saber died(seriously this doesnt even need prior knowledge ),Gil said that it was because of the gods(yeah he means the grail)
Yea, convenient plot ass pulls are nice. Someone gets puts into a situation where they should die but manages to overcome the odds "Because the gods said so." We call that deus ex machina. Maybe if we knew the extent of the power of the Grail before hand this would be acceptable but we don't.

ssjokg said:
Yeah, because"GOOD" prequels become tiring by explaining everything that you ALREADY KNOW again and again.

You arent an expert physician either.
Good prequels do it in a way that it DOESN'T become tiring. Not only because it's a prequel but because they understand not everyone may have seen/read the material that came before it.

No I'm not a physician either but I understand cinematography and context clues. It didn't imply that she could be alive or give off a sense of neutrality, everything implied that she was dead.

ssjokg said:
And MANY,MANY,MANY people said to read FSN first or at least watch the anime.It's like the island ep with where everyone was like"Wat?Vampire?Zombies?".Although Dead Apostles arent really explained in FZ ,Nasuverse is like Marvel, you cant know everything just by reading Spiderman or X-men.
The zombies didn't bother me. It's a world of magic and supernatural crap so I don't understand why zombies would be questionable when they have so many other crazy things going on.

I don't expect to know everything about the world. Again, they completely skipped over what was lead to be the main focus of the anime. The Holy Grail. The issue isn't about the future protagonists but the fact that they showed them WITHOUT giving exposition on what was the main focus the past 23 episodes. If you're incapable of understanding why that is a problem, I'm done here.

dio_brando86 said:
I think it's funny you mention LotR. Because if you just jump in and start at the last LotR film it definitely expects its audience to have seen the first two to fully grasp everything.
Which is why I described LoTR in the context of the destruction of the ring. You may not understand anything else but you understand that they are trying to destroy the ring. The conclusion exemplifies this.

But as I said in previous posts, LoTR is an Epic so the way things play out and what can be expected of the reader is different.

dio_brando86 said:
It's really pretty obvious what happens with Aoi. Kotomine is a good healer and he's right there watching the whole thing. So he heals her for added suffering. This is spelled out explicitly in the LN (it's not shown but Kotomine's inner monologue indicates he's going to heal her) but it's not like it's something hard to guess since if you were paying attention you would know Kotomine is a sadist and also a talented healer.
It isn't obvious. Without that monologue there was no reason to believe she would live. Why do you think so many who have only watched this anime were surprised to see that she was still alive.

So you really think he planned the whole thing for Kariya to ALMOST kill Aoi and then heal her? Based on Kirei's nature he would have left her for dead. Sure he like suffering but throughout the show Kirei is personified as being pragmatic first and foremost. She had no further use to him. This isn't the same situation where he healed Kariya. He healed Kariya to watch him continue to suffer but it was ultimately to further his own goals.

A sadist relishes in the pain of others and she's completely unaware that she's suffering so again, she's of no use to him.





I really don't feel like picking apart all of your points because your arguments already lost full credibility when you don't even know who Shirou is. This is like watching Star Wars episode 3 and then complaining about the movie wasting time on some baby named "luke".

Just understand that not everything is going to be spoon fed to you in a prequel story. The viewer is expected to already know many things from the original material and the author wrote the story knowing that.
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:26 PM

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ViciousOne said:

So you really think he planned the whole thing for Kariya to ALMOST kill Aoi and then heal her? Based on Kirei's nature he would have left her for dead. Sure he like suffering but throughout the show Kirei is personified as being pragmatic first and foremost. She had no further use to him. This isn't the same situation where he healed Kariya. He healed Kariya to watch him continue to suffer but it was ultimately to further his own goals.

A sadist relishes in the pain of others and she's completely unaware that she's suffering so again, she's of no use to him.


First of all FZ is about Kotomine and how much of a failure Kiristugu is.It's not about the grail.

You know why he gave Rin the dagger?Because seeing her treasure the dagger that was used to kill her father made Kirei excited.Kariya is dead but Kirei can still make Rin suffer through Aoi.

And please explain to me the difference the Fate series has with LoTR and Star wars.Because I am stupid enough to not see it
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Jun 23, 2012 10:27 PM

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ViciousOne said:

Maybe if we knew the extent of the power of the Grail before hand this would be acceptable but we don't.


We are told multiple times that the Grail is supposed to be omnipotent.

ViciousOne said:
But as I said in previous posts, LoTR is an Epic so the way things play out and what can be expected of the reader is different.


Quite convenient that you arbitrarily decide the Fate franchise doesn't qualify, that way you don't actually have to argue anything, you can just rely on your double standard.
You might want to refresh your memory on what an epic is if you're going to make claims like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(genre)

ViciousOne said:

So you really think he planned the whole thing for Kariya to ALMOST kill Aoi and then heal her?

...

A sadist relishes in the pain of others and she's completely unaware that she's suffering so again, she's of no use to him.


Totally missing the point here, it amazes me how far off the mark you are. He doesn't go into it planning on her dying or not because it doesn't really matter to him. However, taking advantage of the situation he can save her life and enjoy the pleasure of watching Rin suffer through not only her father dying but her mother reduced to a shell of what she once was, something that will cause her pain for years to come.
Modified by JOHJ, Jun 23, 2012 11:11 PM
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:28 PM
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Perloo said:

I really don't feel like picking apart all of your points because your arguments already lost full credibility when you don't even know who Shirou is. This is like watching Star Wars episode 3 and then complaining about the movie wasting time on some baby named "luke".

Just understand that not everything is going to be spoon fed to you in a prequel story. The viewer is expected to already know many things from the original material and the author wrote the story knowing that.

Good because you completely missed the point again. Your arguments never had any credibility.
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:31 PM

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ViciousOne said:
Perloo said:

I really don't feel like picking apart all of your points because your arguments already lost full credibility when you don't even know who Shirou is. This is like watching Star Wars episode 3 and then complaining about the movie wasting time on some baby named "luke".

Just understand that not everything is going to be spoon fed to you in a prequel story. The viewer is expected to already know many things from the original material and the author wrote the story knowing that.

Good because you completely missed the point again. Your arguments never had any credibility.


Well nothing to do here boys.No point trying explaining to him.
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Jun 23, 2012 10:33 PM
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So ignoring that pointless back and forth...
Kurogashi said:
Gil nude isn't fan service right? He was nude in the novels? LOL

And why did Kiritsugu die so early? Too much time accels?
Gil is nude because that "body" is flesh and blood. His old body was spiritual. He said "he was chosen to lead the world again", which of course is his own way of saying "oh yeah, I have a real body now". Also, the part where Gil tried to pass off Kirei ressuercting as his own act is not a complete asspull. Technically, as Gil himself mentions after that, Kirei and Gilgamesh are connected by a contract, so what gave him his spiffy new body also passed through this connection and revived Kirei. So yeah, now Kirei is heartless in all senses. xD

 
Jun 23, 2012 10:33 PM

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Well, finally it ends. 10/10 of course, it's always been since the first episode.
How I hope that there is ufotable's version of F/SN in the future, since personally I like it better storywise. ( plus moar saber !! )
berserker vs archer, berserker vs saber, saber vs gil. ughh.. wanna see..
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:37 PM

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And so, the prologue to the craziness and tragedies of Fate/Stay Night begins here. I liked Fate/Zero more than Fate/Stay though. Now, if only Ufotable remade the Fate/Stay Night anime, or something, I'll be all set

Amazing series from beginning to end. Now I can finally finish up those last few chapters for the light novel. I'll be rewatching this over and over and over again.


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Jun 23, 2012 10:41 PM

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Fate/Zero made the last nine months awesome. Sorry anime hipsters, but it's getting a 10/10 from me.

Man talk about Chekhov's Gun with that Tohsaka family dagger!
And Sakura at the end... Man that's messed up. I really have to check out Heaven's Feel since I thought that her portrayal in F/SN was underwhelming.

Please click the spoiler for some plot-holes I didn't get (responses receive a cookie!)

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Jun 23, 2012 10:45 PM

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Poor Kiritsugu...he sacrificed everything...but even then he wasnt granted his single noble wish =(
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:48 PM

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I got goosebumps to the max. Best anime ever in my opinion. The graphic is awesome, great character and a fantastic plot!
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:54 PM
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Riotnoob said:
Fate/Zero made the last nine months awesome. Sorry anime hipsters, but it's getting a 10/10 from me.

Man talk about Chekhov's Gun with that Tohsaka family dagger!
And Sakura at the end... Man that's messed up. I really have to check out Heaven's Feel since I thought that her portrayal in F/SN was underwhelming.

Please click the spoiler for some plot-holes I didn't get (responses receive a cookie!)



If he used the grail then everybody in the world will die and only him and his family will live. Kirei won because the black mud fell onto his dead body and it granted his wish
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:55 PM

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Riotnoob said:
Fate/Zero made the last nine months awesome. Sorry anime hipsters, but it's getting a 10/10 from me.

Man talk about Chekhov's Gun with that Tohsaka family dagger!
And Sakura at the end... Man that's messed up. I really have to check out Heaven's Feel since I thought that her portrayal in F/SN was underwhelming.

Please click the spoiler for some plot-holes I didn't get (responses receive a cookie!)



He didn't KNOW that it was corrupted but he figured out that it wasn't the grail he wanted. The grail basically said to him, you only know destruction so I will grant your wish with destruction. That's why to me it seemed like he selfishly destroyed the grail because it couldn't grant the wish in the way he wanted.

Anyways, Gil said they won because he was the only "servant" remaining. Yes sure they won but it was an empty victory anyways. This scene was skipped but the grail tried to corrupt Gil with 6 billion curses but Gil is incorruptible and all it did was to take away Gil's spiritual form. So now he has a flesh and blood body and his stats get shittier because of that. You could say that Gil was reborn.

Saber disappeared to the timeline when she died because the grail was her link to this world. She destroyed that link so of course she will disappear.

The grail did not directly grant Kirei's wish but it was the result that showed Kirei what he truly wanted in life. Hence Kirei feels somewhat fulfilled.

The zero and the beginning stuff is because F/SN is the first series of the Fate franchise so they decided to name the prequel zero.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
Jun 23, 2012 10:55 PM

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Riotnoob said:
Fate/Zero made the last nine months awesome. Sorry anime hipsters, but it's getting a 10/10 from me.

Man talk about Chekhov's Gun with that Tohsaka family dagger!
And Sakura at the end... Man that's messed up. I really have to check out Heaven's Feel since I thought that her portrayal in F/SN was underwhelming.

Please click the spoiler for some plot-holes I didn't get (responses receive a cookie!)



He realised that something was wrong with it but he didnt know everything.
The grail had already chose Kirei more than once and the grail can only destroy so Kirei got his wish granted although not all of it(Blame Kiritsugu for that)
The grail gave him a fake life through his contract with Gil.
All Servants that do not have Independent Action as a skill(Archer class)disappear when the man supply is cut.When Kiritsugu used his Seals,Saber was released from him and so she "died".
Copy paste from Wiki cause I am lazy:
Servants are normally corrupted and blackened upon contact with the incarnation of All the World's Evil from the Holy Grail, but Gilgamesh is unable to be controlled or blackened due to his powerful ego that can stave back the mental pollution. He claims that someone would need at least three times that amount to even think about affecting him. The only change is that the saturation converts his spiritual body to one of flesh and blood. During Heaven's Feel
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Jun 23, 2012 11:01 PM

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Really good end. We get to see Kariya dying think he has accomplished his goals, Sakura being evil.

A naked Gilgamesh and Kirei plotting his next plan.

Saber still regretting being king and finally the part which made me rage last episode, the background of Lancelot. Even though it was short but at least they sqeezed enough but not all the info in there as to why he became berserker.

Scenes of the things Kirei did before he finally died due to the curse and the ideal that drove Shirou to become a hero of justice.

Overall 10/10 for me as i've been waiting for this to be animated ever since i watched fate/stay night back in 2007.
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:10 PM
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ssjokg said:
First of all FZ is about Kotomine and how much of a failure Kiristugu is.It's not about the grail.
It constantly shifts focus so it's hard to say who it is about.

I believe it is about the Holy Grail because that was the reoccurring theme throughout the story despite its prismatic narrative.

Many others who've read the LN told me it was about the Holy Grail and that anime only viewers may mistakenly think it is about Kiritsugu because of his backstory episodes implemented into the main flow of the story.

ssjokg said:
You know why he gave Rin the dagger?Because seeing her treasure the dagger that was used to kill her father made Kirei excited.
I'm aware of that.

dio_brando86 said:
We are told multiple times that the Grail is supposed to be omnipotent.

And after Kiritsugu's experience with the Grail, viewer's are lead to the conclusion that the Grail is not omnipotent.

dio_brando86 said:
Quite convenient that you arbitrarily decide the Fate franchise doesn't qualify, that way you don't actually have to argue anything, you can just rely on your double standard.
It isn't MY double standard. It's something you're taught in English at school. It isn't my problem if you don't know the difference.

dio_brando86 said:
Totally missing the point here, it amazes me how far off the mark you are. He doesn't go into it planning on her dying or not because it doesn't really matter to him. However, taking advantage of the situation he can save her life and enjoy the pleasure of watching Rin suffer through not only her father dying but her mother reduced to a shell of what she once was, something that will cause her pain for years to come.
I didn't miss the point, you missed my point. Again, Kirei is portrayed as being a pragmatist first.

You make it seem like he is Caster level crazy. If Kirei was portrayed as Caster level screwed up, then yes, I would agree. However, he was not. Kirei was focused on the Grail which is why every move he took made steps towards it. Hence, the pragmatism. Even so, this still doesn't dismiss the fact that the cinematography implied that she died.

ssjokg said:
Well nothing to do here boys.No point trying explaining to him.


Yea, sorry about that. I should have known the diehard fanboys would pounce on me if I didn't say everything was perfectly executed and FS is one of the greatest anime of all time. Silly me.

Anyway, I'm done. Arguing over opinions is typically a waste of time.
Modified by ViciousOne, Jun 23, 2012 11:17 PM
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:18 PM

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BloodRequiem said:
Riotnoob said:
Fate/Zero made the last nine months awesome. Sorry anime hipsters, but it's getting a 10/10 from me.

Man talk about Chekhov's Gun with that Tohsaka family dagger!
And Sakura at the end... Man that's messed up. I really have to check out Heaven's Feel since I thought that her portrayal in F/SN was underwhelming.

Please click the spoiler for some plot-holes I didn't get (responses receive a cookie!)



He didn't KNOW that it was corrupted but he figured out that it wasn't the grail he wanted. The grail basically said to him, you only know destruction so I will grant your wish with destruction. That's why to me it seemed like he selfishly destroyed the grail because it couldn't grant the wish in the way he wanted.

Anyways, Gil said they won because he was the only "servant" remaining. Yes sure they won but it was an empty victory anyways. This scene was skipped but the grail tried to corrupt Gil with 6 billion curses but Gil is incorruptible and all it did was to take away Gil's spiritual form. So now he has a flesh and blood body and his stats get shittier because of that. You could say that Gil was reborn.

Saber disappeared to the timeline when she died because the grail was her link to this world. She destroyed that link so of course she will disappear.

The grail did not directly grant Kirei's wish but it was the result that showed Kirei what he truly wanted in life. Hence Kirei feels somewhat fulfilled.

The zero and the beginning stuff is because F/SN is the first series of the Fate franchise so they decided to name the prequel zero.


Thanks for your replies, Blood and SS. I should probably read up on some Nasuverse content since the Grail seems to be more complex than it originally appeared :P
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Jun 23, 2012 11:20 PM

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ViciousOne said:

ssjokg said:
Well nothing to do here boys.No point trying explaining to him.


Yea, sorry about that. I should have known the diehard fanboys would pounce on me if I didn't say everything was perfectly executed and FS is one of the greatest anime of all time. Silly me.


You still didnt explain the difference Fate has with something like LOTR and SW.

Kirei isnt a serial killer.He enjoys his victims not to be aware of what is happening.Like Kariya,Rin,Tokiomi(in the LN Tokiomi didnt realize what happened) the residents of Fuyuki that didnt even know why they were dying.

And yes first step to win an argument is to show that the we are fanboys.Try looking at some other of our posts where we complain A LOT about some of Ufotable's decisions.
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Jun 23, 2012 11:20 PM

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ViciousOne said:

You make it seem like he is Caster level crazy. If Kirei was portrayed as Caster level screwed up, then yes, I would agree. However, he was not. Kirei was focused on the Grail which is why every move he took made steps towards it. Hence, the pragmatism. Even so, this still doesn't dismiss the fact that the cinematography implied that she died.


There's absolutely no reason that he needs to be crazy to save someone for his own future entertainment. In fact, it's a pragmatic action for him to step in and save Aoi rather than letting her die in his church. That's what would be expected of him as a priest.

You seem to think something like Star Wars is an epic but the Fate franchise doesn't qualify, but that makes no sense.


An epic is traditionally a genre of poetry, known as epic poetry.[1] However in modern terms, epic is often extended to other art forms, such as novels, plays, films, music, epic theatre, video games, and television shows[1] where the story is centered on heroic characters, and the action takes place on a grand scale, just as in epic poetry. Modern epics may play off of the classical epic genre, both diverging from and evoking conventions of the traditional variety. Epics in this sense may be majestic depictions that capture impressive struggles, such as stories of war, adventures, and other efforts of great scope and size over long periods of time.[2] The real life stories of heroic figures have also been referred to as being epic.
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:24 PM

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dio_brando86 said:


An epic is traditionally a genre of poetry, known as epic poetry.[1] However in modern terms, epic is often extended to other art forms, such as novels, plays, films, music, epic theatre, video games, and television shows[1] where the story is centered on heroic characters, and the action takes place on a grand scale, just as in epic poetry. Modern epics may play off of the classical epic genre, both diverging from and evoking conventions of the traditional variety. Epics in this sense may be majestic depictions that capture impressive struggles, such as stories of war, adventures, and other efforts of great scope and size over long periods of time.[2] The real life stories of heroic figures have also been referred to as being epic.


Thank you Mr."fanboy #2".You gave an explanation to what I was asking him all along.
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Jun 23, 2012 11:33 PM

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Lumathy said:
NNick said:
Woebegone said:
NNick said:
What The Hell Happened To Gilgamesh?


He won the grail war, basically got reincarnated. Saber disappeared right after the heavens puked.


Wait WHAT? How? So Kirei Won ? What?

They FREAKING CUT the best part of Gilgamesh in the entire series. Gilgamesh vs Grail is the scene where Gil proves to us why he is the freaking KING, yet they CUT it -__- I knew ppl won't understand how he was reincarnated. Damn you ufotable!


Yeah I know wtf right? First they cut his flashback and now they cut his scene with the Grail.. I think ufotable really hates Gil.

Overall Fate/Zero has been an enjoyable ride. I will definitely miss this show. Anyways on the bright side there is still a lot left. Things have just began. It's time for me to replay Heavens feel.

I'm angry for all the cuts in the series but it will still get a solid 10 from me. Episode 23 remains the best episode for me.
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:35 PM

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HikaruIzumi said:
BloodRequiem said:

"Rin has it worse than Sakura"
What are you talking about?
Sakura doesn't care about


This episode showed how brainwashed she was. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure she didn't care before she met Shirou.


Sakura was an empty shell because she gets to be raped/tortured/poisoned/got her body and soul experimented on combo to the point she doesn't even feel like a human being anymore.

While Rin lives a rose-tinted life in comparison. The time she lives one hour of her sister's experiences, she immediately snaps (Femme Fatale bad ending) when she's twelve years older than Sakura was then.
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:38 PM

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And so it ends.
I'm surprised Lancelot's last words were not words of scorn, as it was hinted at last episode. Frankly, I'm still disappointed Saber did not learn to stop blaming herself. Being Kariya is suffering, at least he died happy. What stole the episode was funeral scene with Rin and Kirei, though; that was fantastic.
I find it quite sad that Kiritisugu did not once mention or think of Iris at all. For him to remember Shirley in his final moments is just insulting.

4/5 for the episode. 8-9/10 for the series. Looking forward to the Bluray releases.
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:38 PM

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SwordWielder said:
How come Aoi (tohsaka's mother) didn't die?


Kariya apparently had a habit of hallucinating, and him perceiving Aoi's death was one as well. The strangling did have some long term effects on her though...

Oh, and someone before me mentioned that our sadistic pal Kotomine healed Aoi to add to Rin's suffering. He did some pretty messed up stuff through the VN as well, and I'm glad I got to watch Fate/Zero to see how he developed into the monster that he is (since the anime adaptation of F/SN was absolutely trash :P)
"Hello, Mr. Wind up Bird."
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:42 PM

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Riotnoob said:
SwordWielder said:
How come Aoi (tohsaka's mother) didn't die?


Kariya apparently had a habit of hallucinating, and him perceiving Aoi's death was one as well. The strangling did have some long term effects on her though...

Oh, and someone before me mentioned that our sadistic pal Kotomine healed Aoi to add to Rin's suffering. He did some pretty messed up stuff through the VN as well, and I'm glad I got to watch Fate/Zero to see how he developed into the monster that he is (since the anime adaptation of F/SN was absolutely trash :P)

The portrayal is quite realistic, she suffered brain damage, due to the lack of oxygen, while Kariya was choking her.
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:44 PM

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Riotnoob said:
Oh, and someone before me mentioned that our sadistic pal Kotomine healed Aoi to add to Rin's suffering. He did some pretty messed up stuff through the VN as well, and I'm glad I got to watch Fate/Zero to see how he developed into the monster that he is (since the anime adaptation of F/SN was absolutely trash :P)


Not quite? Back then Kirei fell into the robotic duty of healer. He didn't plan that Aoi would be left in that state. That was a bonus.
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:44 PM

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Well done, animated and told. This series really explains a lot when it comes to it's predecessors but somehow even though we know who loses and wins it still does not change that it was simply Amazing.

The Seven heroes did their thing but really Rider for me stood out the most, if it were a popularity contest I'd give the win to him. Bluebeard being the creepy one but still strong and Saber still kicking ass and Archer feeling so proud of himself in this episode he decides he could strut naked.

Kirei is really sick in this ending for giving Rin the sword he killed her pops with and showing up to the funeral as the the priest, a zombie one at that. He def made for a good villian in this series.

I def felt for Kiritsugu at the end there and even though we saw those scenes from FS/N it had much more meaning this time & explains why he couldn't see his daughter. Getting a cameo of Shiro was cool also.

Being a "hero of justice" line at the end there was a nice touch to the series. Overall I'd def give it a 9/10
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:50 PM

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AzureBlues said:
And so it ends.
I'm surprised Lancelot's last words were not words of scorn, as it was hinted at last episode. Frankly, I'm still disappointed Saber did not learn to stop blaming herself. Being Kariya is suffering, at least he died happy. What stole the episode was funeral scene with Rin and Kirei, though; that was fantastic.
I find it quite sad that Kiritisugu did not once mention or think of Iris at all. For him to remember Shirley in his final moments is just insulting.

4/5 for the episode. 8-9/10 for the series. Looking forward to the Bluray releases.


Good point about Shirley being one of the last thing Kiritsugu recalls... Seriously it's as if nobody cared about Irisviel throughout the entire show! Sure she knew that her only role was to become the grail and die for Kiritsugu, but the show's ED gave more humanity in Kiritsugu and Iri's relationship than the show did throughout all 25 episodes.
"Hello, Mr. Wind up Bird."
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:52 PM

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Speechless.
And in tears
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:54 PM

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TheAznKay said:
Speechless.
And in tears


You're among friends brah. Join the proverbial club!
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Jun 23, 2012 11:57 PM

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-MgZ_ said:
Ummm... why not adapt someone as cute as Illya? ._.

Ok ufotable.. Go next! Do any of the 3 routes! Though I prefer the main one cuz I have no idea what happened in it. Or you can do all. Gogogo.

9/10, cuz Illya is sad.


There is no main one, but HF connects the most with Zero if that's what you meant.
 
Jun 23, 2012 11:57 PM

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Riotnoob said:
AzureBlues said:
And so it ends.
I'm surprised Lancelot's last words were not words of scorn, as it was hinted at last episode. Frankly, I'm still disappointed Saber did not learn to stop blaming herself. Being Kariya is suffering, at least he died happy. What stole the episode was funeral scene with Rin and Kirei, though; that was fantastic.
I find it quite sad that Kiritisugu did not once mention or think of Iris at all. For him to remember Shirley in his final moments is just insulting.

4/5 for the episode. 8-9/10 for the series. Looking forward to the Bluray releases.


Good point about Shirley being one of the last thing Kiritsugu recalls... Seriously it's as if nobody cared about Irisviel throughout the entire show! Sure she knew that her only role was to become the grail and die for Kiritsugu, but the show's ED gave more humanity in Kiritsugu and Iri's relationship than the show did throughout all 25 episodes.


Kiritsugu cried many times for Iri before and after(surely) the war.He failed what he wanted to be.And what he wanted to be is what he thinks he should have said back then in the island.And Shirley believed that he could change the world way before Iri AND she was his first love.Plus being a hero of justice fits more with Shirley's backstory than Iri's.
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Jun 24, 2012 12:00 AM

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I guess they were faithful to the specific source material well enough from the looks of things. I wouldn't know for sure since I didn't read the novel.

Anyway, 10/10. Great art, outstanding soundtracks, awesome story, epic characters, etc.
 
Jun 24, 2012 12:06 AM

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wait for the BD and my final score for now it give it a 8/10.
 
Jun 24, 2012 12:07 AM

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buy the bluray for sexytime gilgamesh uncensored.

i love how they put a little bit of connection of fz to fsn instead of just ending it there.
9/10 on s1 and s2 respectively
10/10 for fate/zero as a whole
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Jun 24, 2012 12:12 AM

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Marathoned all 12 today, went by very quickly despite having already read the novel.
overall satisfying adaption. 9/10
 
Jun 24, 2012 12:35 AM

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I was looking for Sakura's salvation fanart and found these:



Can someone translate the first pic?
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Jun 24, 2012 12:37 AM

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Now that I think about it... what exactly is Angra Maiyu? Can someone explain to me easily so I can understand..? Its a destructive spirit (refer in Wiki), yea, but what does he have to do with the Grail? o_o

"Have you ever encounter a wild beast that guarantees to never bite anyone?" ~ Roronoa Zoro
 
Jun 24, 2012 12:38 AM

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6/10 for episode, 8/10 for series.
Please note that 6/10 is a good score and that 8/10 is an excellent score.

I'm looking forward to having the BDs fix everything and all, but this episode didn't quite do it for me. Kirei's Engrish may have been part of it, but I'm still mostly finding fault in the pacing. Everything is happening so fast, and especially so when compared to previous episodes where it's just people talking.

The series itself has been awesome, and the only thing that stopped me from giving it the 9 was... yup, pacing. Season 1 actually did a better job with it, but the these final three episodes simply feel rushed and incomplete. Which is bad considering how good the lead-up to this climax was. So 8/10 for an excellent effort that faltered a bit at the end. And of course, there's still hope for salvation in the BDs...
 
Jun 24, 2012 12:48 AM
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I'm slightly disappointed this episode. It didn't give a great impact that I was looking for. (In fact, I am disappointed with the last two episodes.) Many scenes were cut out making me wondering how and why said results came to be. This episode seems like a mash-up of scenes sewn together. Where was the quality like episode 10 or any other previous well-done episodes? But I guess this episode could be forgiven because of the time constraint. Overall, it was an okay episode.

Episode rating: 6.5/10

Anime rating:

Arisuchan said:
8/10

Pacing issues and,inconsistent quality of the episodes, but overall an enjoyable experience.


The discs should better included any cut (well-written) scene or else I'm going to bump my overall enjoyment of this anime to 7/10.
Modified by deactivated10325, Jun 24, 2012 1:20 AM
 
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