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Poll: Eureka Seven AO Episode 9 Discussion


Jun 8, 2012 5:34 PM

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This episode confirmed many of my suspicions. It also revealed the personalities of Christophe Blanc, Truth, Gen Bleu with the contrasting Ao.

First of all, what is quartz? To put it simply, one can compare the current status of Uranium in our world with Quartz in Ao's world. There is subtle evidence in the previous episodes, but this particular episode more or less confirms it. We know from previous episodes that quartz powers the mecha. In this episode, the Ministry of Defense's intent is to activate the quartz to use it as a power source (though Nakamura had different intentions). Fearing the proliferation of quartz, Gen Bleu attempts to prevent Japan's activation of artificial quartz (though it turns out it be damaged quartz from 70 yrs ago). This is confirmed by Team Pied Pipers' primary objective being the retrieval of quartz in secrecy. If one imagines quartz as uranium, a power source as well as a tool for mass destruction, Gen Bleu's purpose and actions are much better explained (like how it keeps hidden the existence of quartz from Okinawa and others).

The next question one must ask is who the guy (call him glasses-head) with Nakamura is? We know glasses-head is a Gen Bleu mole and that he changes to become Truth, to whom Nakamura asks whether he is with the hackers (trust me that's important). We don't know whether Truth was always glasses-head, but I am inclined to believe because Truth had infiltrated other groups before, thus has the experience to easily infiltrate the Ministry of Defense. Glasses-head and Truth are also consistent in provoking Nakamura to commit destruction. If so, then Christophe Blanc and Truth are the center of a huge conspiracy. If not, Truth must have a huge network (i.e. Fire Crackers) to pinpoint Nakamura (the light fuse in Ministry of Defense) and take out Gen Bleu's mole; and Christophe Blanc must be an unemotional president willing to do whatever to clear Gen Bleu's path. Either way, this is shaping up to be very interesting.

Both of these answers are based by a couple truths. One, Japan had no intention of pursuing the path of Scrub Coral, as evidenced by the Ministry of Interior, its people, its history, and the Ministry of Defense's surprise with Nakamura's plan. Two, Gen Bleu had no idea Japan had damaged quartz from 70 yrs ago, and only believed that Japan was constructing an artificial Plant Coral, akin to a nuclear plant in our reality. These truths explain Gen Bleu's actions for, it never expected a secret to show up.

Thus, the big question is whether Christophe Blanc is truly the president of Gen Bleu or merely acting the president's role while secretly working with Truth.

In the midst of all this political madness, Ao shapes up to become unbiased arbiter. He doesn't give a care about Gen Bleu's goals or the political maneuvering of others. He sees the truth: Secrets kill people and damage property and his job is to prevent that. So focused he is that he doesn't even care to notice the two beautiful girls (and not to forget the ever sexy Noah) lying on the windshield of Nirvash in their swimsuits.
Modified by s2012k1993, Jun 8, 2012 5:51 PM
 
Jun 8, 2012 5:47 PM

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not taking 1st 2 episodes into consideration, this is the best ep for me,in short, i agree with this:
Marow said:
Finally some focus.


still not enough to make this enjoyable much, to be honest, right in the middle of the ep, when i was talking to myself this finally looks interesting, the action came in and i went back to previous eps' half asleep state waiting for it to end
there wasnt a single second of action i liked in this anime - the opposite

the water pressure scenes were kinda dramatic at least

what i disliked about this episode too, was that despite plot development there is no progression in the characters area - Ao still has no clue what he wants, in fact nobody has, everyone just stays in his initial position - Ivica seemed that he had some grudges against president, so did the pilots
Gazelle and corp - wtf - they are still doing the laundry jobs? this is the worst

im tired of seing characters doing what clearly is the initial stage, in few eps we are gonna be in half of the road and the characters positions are still not established. the example with gazelle gets my point across the best: they should have been doing some important stuff for a long time now, Gazelle's cocky attitude (as he was already doing important stuff) doesnt help much)
or another one: Rebecka still wasnt established neither as intelligent or capable - everyone is just BEING there

Tyrel said:
InfiniteDestiny said:

In a way Ao is like Renton, always wanting to save people, before thinking what could happen.

that sounds more like typical shonen...

porkiewpyne said:
Wannabe scumbag Apollo Justice got saved by the three stooges from the overpowered troll. Seems legit.

haha, but i am curious about how could someone like Truth need some idiot... but i like that character, he reminds me bit of Dominic from prequel


btw did anyone think of Evangelion in that water action scene? it totally reminded me of that angel in lava, not complaining, just saying

and it really feels like plot armor surrounds people around Truth everywhere he goes - once he kills everyone mercilessly and then he lets people live for no reason (like, main characters)

fanservice: please... stop it its stupid, particularly on girl like Fleur and even worse on Elena - does anyone get her btw? i hate her most when cheerful
maybe this is for younger audience?
Modified by sspit, Jun 8, 2012 5:52 PM
 
Jun 8, 2012 6:03 PM

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s2012k1993 said:
If one imagines quartz as uranium, a power source as well as a tool for mass destruction, Gen Bleu's purpose and actions are much better explained (like how it keeps hidden the existence of quartz from Okinawa and others).


That seems to be the ultimate reason "in the GB public sphere". I would think there are more important, secret reasons for the gathering of quartz. Clearly, the organization has many hidden secrets and alterior motives, such as hiding the type TheEnd(?), and viewing the Nirvash as a especially valuble machine, among other.

s2012k1993 said:
The next question one must ask is who the guy (call him glasses-head) with spiky-head is? We know glasses-head is a Gen Bleu mole and that he changes to become Truth, to whom spiky-head asks whether he is with the hackers (trust me that's important). We don't know whether Truth was always glasses-head, but I am inclined to believe because Truth had infiltrated other groups before, thus has the experience to easily infiltrate the Ministry of Defense. Glasses-head and Truth are also consistent in provoking spiky-head to commit destruction. If so, then Christophe Blanc and Truth are the center of a huge conspiracy. If not, Truth must have a huge network (i.e. Fire Crackers) to pinpoint spiky-head (the light fuse in Ministry of Defense) and take out Gen Bleu's mole; and Christophe Blanc must be an unemotional president willing to do whatever to clear Gen Bleu's path. Either way, this is shaping up to be very interesting.

Both of these answers are based by a couple truths. One, Japan had no intention of pursuing the path of Scrub Coral, as evidenced by the Ministry of Interior, its people, its history, and the Ministry of Defense's surprise with Spiky-Head's plan. Two, Gen Bleu had no idea Japan had damaged quartz from 70 yrs ago, and only believed that Japan was constructing an artificial Plant Coral, akin to a nuclear plant in our reality. These truths explain Gen Bleu's actions for, it never expected a secret to show up.

Thus, the big question is whether Christophe Blanc is truly the president of Gen Bleu or merely acting the president's role while secretly working with Truth.


I just think no one knows that "glasses-head" is Truth. I would say Truth seems to work at multiple angles, but is only doing so to push his own agendas forward, such as finding Secrets and seeing the Nirvash. The President might know more then he lets one, but I don't see any evidence suggesting that they are conscious of each other and are working together.

s2012k1993 said:
In the midst of all this political madness, Ao shapes up to become unbiased arbiter. He doesn't give a care about Gen Bleu's goals or the political maneuvering of others. He sees the truth: Secrets kill people and damage property and his job is to prevent that. So focused he is that he doesn't even care to notice the two beautiful girls (and not to forget the ever sexy Noah) lying on the windshield of Nirvash in their swimsuits.


I think his avoidance/ignoring of the two is also due to his annoyance of their apparent lack of will/focus/forcefulness towards defending the local population. He clearly views saving the citizens from the Secret as the No. 1 priority and thus is angered/annoyed by Pied Piper's screwed up priorities.
 
Jun 8, 2012 6:23 PM

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Raigerzero said:
In this case, how is this not possible? You only need one giant robot to investigate the scub coral/damaged quartz and arguably one to fight the Secret. This was extremely possible. My only issue is why didn't Ao be smart and lure the Secret to a depth near the surface when it first appeared on his radar?


You shouldn't be so literal about it, just because it was possible in this scenario doesn't mean that it would be possible in another one; you have to acknowledge that his way of thinking is ignorant, its a well known lesson that is displayed in movies,anime and even real life, not everyone can be saved, to think otherwise is naive.

Ao has displayed for lack of better terms lack of intelligence the entire series; like that "did we win?" last episode, and also his development isn't done well either, that can change of course, but if it keeps up like this then the very direction will be what is the problem.
 
Jun 8, 2012 6:23 PM

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Raigerzero said:
s2012k1993 said:
If one imagines quartz as uranium, a power source as well as a tool for mass destruction, Gen Bleu's purpose and actions are much better explained (like how it keeps hidden the existence of quartz from Okinawa and others).


That seems to be the ultimate reason "in the GB public sphere". I would think there are more important, secret reasons for the gathering of quartz. Clearly, the organization has many hidden secrets and alterior motives, such as hiding the type TheEnd(?), and viewing the Nirvash as a especially valuble machine, among other.


I definitely agree with this. But I think it's a bit more layered than that. Japan and Okinawa don't know what quartz is other than that it attracts Secret. Thus most third world countries view Scrub Coral as a hindriance. One level higher is Gen Bleu and America, both which know the value of Quartz (Uranium analogy). Even higher, only certain heads of Gen Bleu and America know of Mark I and its link with quartz. Thus, even if Gen Bleu's information leaks out, it can only be viewed as a humanitarian organization, while secretly pursuing its own agenda, Christophe Blanc's agenda that is.

Therefore, my suspicions of Christophe Blanc are justified. We have already seen him act calculating and tricking in order to achieve his ends in the previous two episodes and also in this one. In addition, the mole (glasses-head) directly contacts Gen Bleu's heads. If he is Truth, for what purpose would Truth relay that information to the very same organization that he wreaked havoc on. One, he may have formed a treaty with Blanc in exchange for ending the damage to Gen Bleu. Two, he wants Gen Bleu's involvement, but to what ends? However, if Truth entered the picture later in the game, then all bets are off.

Raigerzero said:
s2012k1993 said:
In the midst of all this political madness, Ao shapes up to become unbiased arbiter. He doesn't give a care about Gen Bleu's goals or the political maneuvering of others. He sees the truth: Secrets kill people and damage property and his job is to prevent that. So focused he is that he doesn't even care to notice the two beautiful girls (and not to forget the ever sexy Noah) lying on the windshield of Nirvash in their swimsuits.


I think his avoidance/ignoring of the two is also due to his annoyance of their apparent lack of will/focus/forcefulness towards defending the local population. He clearly views saving the citizens from the Secret as the No. 1 priority and thus is angered/annoyed by Pied Piper's screwed up priorities.


To balance all of the mind games played by the older generation, we have a new generation of children, headed by Ao that spit at the older generation's hypocrisy. For those who believe Ao to be a lifeless character unlike Renton, I remind them that Ao is not battling the same things Renton did. Ao is fighting for truth, whereas Renton is fighting with his adolescence. Though, I do believe the anime could spend a little less time on the fighting scenes and little more time developing Ao along these lines.
Modified by s2012k1993, Jun 8, 2012 6:26 PM
 
Jun 8, 2012 7:01 PM

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Did anyone else get pissed off at Ao disobeying direct orders yet AGAIN? And this time the Captain just didn't give a fuck anymore. When you are part of a team you follow the rules and don't just leave your partners and crew hanging like that.

He also attacked Fleur's and Elena's mech to get the trapar out without even a heads up. That was kinda dickish.
 
Jun 8, 2012 11:54 PM

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Marow said:

The difference is that we knew what Renton was thinking, we knew why he did those things and he actually reflected on them and grew. Ao doesn't have anything of this. We don't even know what drives him.


Its kind of been discussed about a little bit vaguely, however I'll throw my spin on it.

AO doesn't know what quite drives him. You have to remember he was sort of dragged into this with no other choice.(Unless you think he could have taken on the whole US army) Renton, on the other hand had the whole I'm in love with Eureka so I will fight for her, which is why he went with the Geckogo.

AO doesn't have this, he's doing soul searching trying to figure out who and what he is, while at the same time using generation Bleue as a means to gather information about his origins (this includes his mother/Nirvash/Ninae).He's using the concept of saving people at the same time, so he can obtain some fulfillment that he's worth something. So in the end he can't be like Renton because he doesn't really know what he's fighting for, he just knows that he may be able to save people, even if he doesn't understand why he can do it.
 
Jun 9, 2012 12:04 AM

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truth is kind of a douche
Dont bother replying to my posts in forums, dont check them afterwards.

 
Jun 9, 2012 11:07 AM

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I don't like how they are trying to put a lot of plot development and then end the episode with a battle scene. It makes all the battle scenes half-assed in the show, it just feels really rushed and barely interesting.
 
Jun 9, 2012 5:13 PM

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Lightbarier said:
Marow said:

The difference is that we knew what Renton was thinking, we knew why he did those things and he actually reflected on them and grew. Ao doesn't have anything of this. We don't even know what drives him.


Its kind of been discussed about a little bit vaguely, however I'll throw my spin on it.

AO doesn't know what quite drives him. You have to remember he was sort of dragged into this with no other choice.(Unless you think he could have taken on the whole US army) Renton, on the other hand had the whole I'm in love with Eureka so I will fight for her, which is why he went with the Geckogo.

AO doesn't have this, he's doing soul searching trying to figure out who and what he is, while at the same time using generation Bleue as a means to gather information about his origins (this includes his mother/Nirvash/Ninae).He's using the concept of saving people at the same time, so he can obtain some fulfillment that he's worth something. So in the end he can't be like Renton because he doesn't really know what he's fighting for, he just knows that he may be able to save people, even if he doesn't understand why he can do it.

That may be it, but the problem is we don't HEAR him think along these lines. There is no internal monologue. So we don't know anything about him.
I have my own anime blog. It's called Anime Viking. Hope you'll you read it!

 
Jun 9, 2012 9:01 PM

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Dropped.
 
Jun 10, 2012 7:54 AM

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On the verge of dropping this anime but will try to stomach through it. My thoughts on the episode and what we still have:

-Lifeless characters who have personalities of a cardboard

-Crappy antagonist who has random powers and a cliche motive

-Ao being a feminine moronic pilot who doesn't know what he wants and shoves his idealism down our throats

-Annoying three cast away get a job on generation blue because they saw a scub coral change...........they are annoying, useless and provide for weak plot humor

-Naru is no where to be seen and that is a good thing. I think she is dumb broad who should have stayed in her hometown because she is useless in all regards. Retardly following the transexual villian because he said some cute words. What? SIgh.............I just hope when they bring her useless character back she will be covered up and not dressed like a prostitute.

-Gekko State>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Generation Blu. Gekko State comprised of a small group of rogue individuals against the military. While Generation Blu is a company that does scub coral research (why the fuck do they have milatary commanders)? I enjoyed how simple gekko state was and how much of a family it was. To this point I can't understand why generation Blu has malls and other retarded crap like singers. Talk about waste of money! Gekko State was a rogue organization and so they could bend the rules and bring in child pilots but wtf does Generation Blu have for their excuse?

-Lame politics splattered through the episode to make things more intellectual but failed miserable. EU 7 was a simple but had complex undertones within the story. E7 Ao is forced plot information to make this mess of show more than it is.

-I loled at the dude who over analysed E7 AO because he is making it so much more than it is. It's like someone going off on the complex properties of water, when the person asked you where can he buy water?

-How in the blue hell is this a sequel? There is not a single character besides Eureka who was shown in this anime......wtf happened to everyone. Why wasn't this explained earlier? Unbelievable at the crap that his been going on. I loved EU 7 but this is making a mockery of the entire EU 7 name. I would love to see what the writers were smoking when they made this entire concept.

-Episode was a 6.5/10 and I might drop this pile of shit next episode. I have been stomaching bad episode after bad episode and I don't think I can take anymore.
Modified by Gov, Jun 10, 2012 8:04 AM
 
Jun 10, 2012 10:57 AM

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Ahri said:
Am i the only one that finds Truth extremely boring when he appears on the screen? I just can't stand him.....


nope, you're not
 
Jun 10, 2012 11:57 AM

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Darkdrone said:
-Episode was a 6.5/10 and I might drop this pile of shit next episode. I have been stomaching bad episode after bad episode and I don't think I can take anymore.

Jesus Christ. You dropped bag full of shit on this episode and still 6,5/10? Scale is from 1 to 10 not 6 to 10.
 
Jun 10, 2012 1:48 PM

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bastek66 said:
Darkdrone said:
-Episode was a 6.5/10 and I might drop this pile of shit next episode. I have been stomaching bad episode after bad episode and I don't think I can take anymore.

Jesus Christ. You dropped bag full of shit on this episode and still 6,5/10? Scale is from 1 to 10 not 6 to 10.


Episode was sub par but I have been harbouring those feelings about the show for quite some time. Check all the episode discussions and you will see me badgering on about it. I thought the first two episodes were phenomenal but from then on it took a turn for a worst. Also what do you mean the scale is from 1 to 10? This was a sub par but below good.....so that is a 6.5 out of 10.

Unless this show does something regarding the the characters and how they grow within the narrative....it is sub par. Nothing overly complicated about the show but they seem to try to make it sound like it is intelligent.
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:21 PM

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I agree with a lot of the criticism. At this point, I just feel detached from it all. Its been slowly going downhill after the first few eps and with the introduction of Truth, it has sort of gone to shit. Truth is a blight on this show. His dialog has been painful and the show tries too hard to make him cool.
 
Jun 11, 2012 12:48 AM

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I was bored for the majority of the episode : /
 
Jun 13, 2012 1:43 PM

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im watching TTGL now and some parts reminded me too much of E7...

Then those black things with purple lines appear in TTGL just like in AO. DAFUQ !?
 
Jun 13, 2012 3:56 PM

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The fuck with pool/windshield scene... Completely out of place even as stupid fanservice. And shithead Elena is an unnecessary character altogether, annoyance all the way.

I haven't imagined it, but Truth is one great crazy character.

tl;dr

this show still fails, put on hold.
 
Jun 15, 2012 7:41 AM

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I honestly can't believe the amount of hate this series is getting; at first I blamed it on misplaced expectations, but this is just ridiculous. At this point, I just have to completely disagree with the "cardboard" characters analysis, as I think most of the main cast has been properly developed up to this point, and I can at least empathize with them as characters, though I'll agree the series hasn't been stellar in this regard. What I can say, however, is that I'm loving the complexity of the story and the setting that BONES has put forth with this series, and the visual splendor in the design and animation. Regarding the story, nothing about the prospective plot has seemed "hollow" or incoherent to me up to this point; conversely, this aspect seems quite meticulously and carefully executed, which I'm actually enjoying substantially. Each of these pros I've listed have certainly met their own problems with consistency (episodes 7 and 8 come to mind), but nothing that "breaks" the series for me in any way.

As for these comparisons to Gen Bleu and Gekkostate, I believe they're totally asinine and detrimental to any enjoyment one may have in the series, as they're completely and fundamentally different entities with different objectives and philosophies - this does not make one conceivably "better" than the other. As for Truth, thus far I've reserved judgement on its effectiveness as a character, and place in the story, but it's obvious that there's some amount of depth to "it", and we'll just have to see where its story goes.

My take is that just like the first series, Ao has plenty of flaws strewn about itself, but in no way do I see it being anything close to a "failure"; If I were to give the first series a solid "8.5", I'd give this one between a "7.8 - 8.0" up to this point - I don't think it's quite reached the heights of its predecessor just yet, but I certainly see the potential for it to do so.
Modified by Dangerr, Jun 15, 2012 7:48 AM
 
Jun 15, 2012 8:42 AM

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Dangerr said:
I honestly can't believe the amount of hate this series is getting; at first I blamed it on misplaced expectations, but this is just ridiculous. At this point, I just have to completely disagree with the "cardboard" characters analysis, as I think most of the main cast has been properly developed up to this point, and I can at least empathize with them as characters, though I'll agree the series hasn't been stellar in this regard. What I can say, however, is that I'm loving the complexity of the story and the setting that BONES has put forth with this series, and the visual splendor in the design and animation. Regarding the story, nothing about the prospective plot has seemed "hollow" or incoherent to me up to this point; conversely, this aspect seems quite meticulously and carefully executed, which I'm actually enjoying substantially. Each of these pros I've listed have certainly met their own problems with consistency (episodes 7 and 8 come to mind), but nothing that "breaks" the series for me in any way.

As for these comparisons to Gen Bleu and Gekkostate, I believe they're totally asinine and detrimental to any enjoyment one may have in the series, as they're completely and fundamentally different entities with different objectives and philosophies - this does not make one conceivably "better" than the other. As for Truth, thus far I've reserved judgement on its effectiveness as a character, and place in the story, but it's obvious that there's some amount of depth to "it", and we'll just have to see where its story goes.

My take is that just like the first series, Ao has plenty of flaws strewn about itself, but in no way do I see it being anything close to a "failure"; If I were to give the first series a solid "8.5", I'd give this one between a "7.8 - 8.0" up to this point - I don't think it's quite reached the heights of its predecessor just yet, but I certainly see the potential for it to do so.


What Ao is missing is the charm the first series had. There's no character(s) in Ao to fall in love with. The first series also had flaws, but the characters were appealing enough to allow you to overlook them. I just don't see that here - so it's a lot easier to pick apart it's issues.

I somewhat agree with everything else you mention. I had misplaced expectations myself. I think that if I viewed this anime completely objectively (not being an E7 fanboy), or having not seen the original at all, I'd be rating it as highly as you. Unfortunately, I'm biased (nothing I can do about it). I withhold my ranting for that reason though.
 
Jun 15, 2012 9:04 AM

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capncrunch said:
Dangerr said:
I honestly can't believe the amount of hate this series is getting; at first I blamed it on misplaced expectations, but this is just ridiculous. At this point, I just have to completely disagree with the "cardboard" characters analysis, as I think most of the main cast has been properly developed up to this point, and I can at least empathize with them as characters, though I'll agree the series hasn't been stellar in this regard. What I can say, however, is that I'm loving the complexity of the story and the setting that BONES has put forth with this series, and the visual splendor in the design and animation. Regarding the story, nothing about the prospective plot has seemed "hollow" or incoherent to me up to this point; conversely, this aspect seems quite meticulously and carefully executed, which I'm actually enjoying substantially. Each of these pros I've listed have certainly met their own problems with consistency (episodes 7 and 8 come to mind), but nothing that "breaks" the series for me in any way.

As for these comparisons to Gen Bleu and Gekkostate, I believe they're totally asinine and detrimental to any enjoyment one may have in the series, as they're completely and fundamentally different entities with different objectives and philosophies - this does not make one conceivably "better" than the other. As for Truth, thus far I've reserved judgement on its effectiveness as a character, and place in the story, but it's obvious that there's some amount of depth to "it", and we'll just have to see where its story goes.

My take is that just like the first series, Ao has plenty of flaws strewn about itself, but in no way do I see it being anything close to a "failure"; If I were to give the first series a solid "8.5", I'd give this one between a "7.8 - 8.0" up to this point - I don't think it's quite reached the heights of its predecessor just yet, but I certainly see the potential for it to do so.


What Ao is missing is the charm the first series had. There's no character(s) in Ao to fall in love with. The first series also had flaws, but the characters were appealing enough to allow you to overlook them. I just don't see that here - so it's a lot easier to pick apart it's issues.

I somewhat agree with everything else you mention. I had misplaced expectations myself. I think that if I viewed this anime completely objectively (not being an E7 fanboy), or having not seen the original at all, I'd be rating it as highly as you. Unfortunately, I'm biased (nothing I can do about it). I withhold my ranting for that reason though.

At least you're honest with yourself, which is something I can respect. However, bringing up objectivity again, "charm" is for the most part a subjective perception regarding any form of entertainment; I personally find a sort of naive and immature charm in Ao and Fleur's sensibilities about life, and a lot of the characters in general that can be seen in this series.

What the original had in this respect was the "halcyon days" of Renton being in Gekkostate, essentially discovering himself and what truly drives him in his life, while Ao has been more pushed into his scenario rather than having actively seeked it out; this setup invariably leads to a lot of moments of catharsis for Renton, and consequently fewer than Ao, given the fundamentally different settings. However, I don't feel we should fault this series for it, as it's taken a decidedly different approach in how it wants to tell its story, opting for a "larger picture" approach rather than the internal / existential coming-of-age journey that Renton took, which I find a lot of personal enjoyment in. Perhaps the biggest flaw I can come up with from a story-telling standpoint is the constant use of in-universe vernacular, juggling of subplots and matter-of-factly statements that have either only been given vague explanation, or none at all; all but the most vigilant of viewers will find substance in such conversations, and will likely be lost. I love how it hasn't been spoon-feeding the story in this regard, but do feel it could benefit from a bit more proper exposition.
Modified by Dangerr, Jun 15, 2012 9:14 AM
 
Jun 15, 2012 9:14 AM

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Dangerr said:
I honestly can't believe the amount of hate this series is getting; at first I blamed it on misplaced expectations, but this is just ridiculous. At this point, I just have to completely disagree with the "cardboard" characters analysis, as I think most of the main cast has been properly developed up to this point, and I can at least empathize with them as characters, though I'll agree the series hasn't been stellar in this regard. What I can say, however, is that I'm loving the complexity of the story and the setting that BONES has put forth with this series, and the visual splendor in the design and animation. Regarding the story, nothing about the prospective plot has seemed "hollow" or incoherent to me up to this point; conversely, this aspect seems quite meticulously and carefully executed, which I'm actually enjoying substantially. Each of these pros I've listed have certainly met their own problems with consistency (episodes 7 and 8 come to mind), but nothing that "breaks" the series for me in any way.

As for these comparisons to Gen Bleu and Gekkostate, I believe they're totally asinine and detrimental to any enjoyment one may have in the series, as they're completely and fundamentally different entities with different objectives and philosophies - this does not make one conceivably "better" than the other. As for Truth, thus far I've reserved judgement on its effectiveness as a character, and place in the story, but it's obvious that there's some amount of depth to "it", and we'll just have to see where its story goes.

My take is that just like the first series, Ao has plenty of flaws strewn about itself, but in no way do I see it being anything close to a "failure"; If I were to give the first series a solid "8.5", I'd give this one between a "7.8 - 8.0" up to this point - I don't think it's quite reached the heights of its predecessor just yet, but I certainly see the potential for it to do so.


Shocked? We have been ragging on the show since episode 2 and you are shocked? Check out the other episode discussions to refresh your memory. We all had high expectations for this show but it didn't live up to the hype.

Stop being a rabid fanboy and take the fairy dust out of your eyes. This show has not delivered and has been a mess for the last 6 episodes.

The main characters are properly developed? What? In the episode 7 discussion you were telling us how the writers of the show will develop the characters in time and now you say they are properly developed? Please tell me how an annoying character like Elena who hasn't changed one bit is developed? What about Fleur? A cute little backstory isn't enough and we need to see some changes in her character. Ao is still moronic and clueless of the world.......so no for him. Naru hasn't been fleshed out at all and now has run off with the transgenderd villain. Explain to me how they are developed?

Gekkostate and Gen Blu have to be compared because they are similar as the place where the protagonist lives and is taken care of. Gekkostate is what we are used to having and so the creators branched out with Gen Blu. I gotta be honest Gen Blu is watered down military version of Gekko State with many flaws. Just compare the characters in EU7 who were lovable and had true characterization compared to the generic cardboard personality of Gen Blu.

Truth is a mess and I mean a disaster as a main villain. So let me get this straight, we went from a brilliant antagonist Dewey to this frilly feminine guy by the name Truth who shoots energy out of his chest. Dewey had no random ass pull power or anything like that, he was a human who used his influence to bring his idealism to the world. Not say "I am looking for the truth in the world"......the hell is that?

The romance in the show is also a walking tornado of failure. So let me get this straight. Ao was originally had a girlfriend who was Naru and been with her for many years of his life. A weird feminine guy recites some generic cutsy line and she goes off with him? What about Ao? Then we are forced to have this awkward Fleur and Ao relationsip...which is unrealistic. When I was 13 I sure as hell never got a 16 year old girl to like me........why......because maybe she is interested in people her own age.

"I don't think it's quite reached the heights of its predecessor just yet, but I certainly see the potential for it to do so.".

That quote right there is ridiculous by all accounts. Eu 7 is a fantastic anime that has respect in the anime community and has a good score on MAL to back it up. While EU 7 the hype died down and MAL score slipping everyday shows it. This show went from a 8.13 to 7.90.....nuff said. You even mention this show has many flaws and yet you give it a 8? An 8 is an amazing series and this show doesn't fit the bill.

I honestly am not a hater for this show, I was really excited for this show and had really high expectations. I thought the first two episodes were 8.7-9.3 range but from there it went down hill.
Modified by Gov, Jun 15, 2012 9:30 AM
 
Jun 15, 2012 10:01 AM

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Darkdrone said:
Dangerr said:
I honestly can't believe the amount of hate this series is getting; at first I blamed it on misplaced expectations, but this is just ridiculous. At this point, I just have to completely disagree with the "cardboard" characters analysis, as I think most of the main cast has been properly developed up to this point, and I can at least empathize with them as characters, though I'll agree the series hasn't been stellar in this regard. What I can say, however, is that I'm loving the complexity of the story and the setting that BONES has put forth with this series, and the visual splendor in the design and animation. Regarding the story, nothing about the prospective plot has seemed "hollow" or incoherent to me up to this point; conversely, this aspect seems quite meticulously and carefully executed, which I'm actually enjoying substantially. Each of these pros I've listed have certainly met their own problems with consistency (episodes 7 and 8 come to mind), but nothing that "breaks" the series for me in any way.

As for these comparisons to Gen Bleu and Gekkostate, I believe they're totally asinine and detrimental to any enjoyment one may have in the series, as they're completely and fundamentally different entities with different objectives and philosophies - this does not make one conceivably "better" than the other. As for Truth, thus far I've reserved judgement on its effectiveness as a character, and place in the story, but it's obvious that there's some amount of depth to "it", and we'll just have to see where its story goes.

My take is that just like the first series, Ao has plenty of flaws strewn about itself, but in no way do I see it being anything close to a "failure"; If I were to give the first series a solid "8.5", I'd give this one between a "7.8 - 8.0" up to this point - I don't think it's quite reached the heights of its predecessor just yet, but I certainly see the potential for it to do so.


Address all the issues that you don't like. Do
Dangerr said:
I honestly can't believe the amount of hate this series is getting; at first I blamed it on misplaced expectations, but this is just ridiculous. At this point, I just have to completely disagree with the "cardboard" characters analysis, as I think most of the main cast has been properly developed up to this point, and I can at least empathize with them as characters, though I'll agree the series hasn't been stellar in this regard. What I can say, however, is that I'm loving the complexity of the story and the setting that BONES has put forth with this series, and the visual splendor in the design and animation. Regarding the story, nothing about the prospective plot has seemed "hollow" or incoherent to me up to this point; conversely, this aspect seems quite meticulously and carefully executed, which I'm actually enjoying substantially. Each of these pros I've listed have certainly met their own problems with consistency (episodes 7 and 8 come to mind), but nothing that "breaks" the series for me in any way.

As for these comparisons to Gen Bleu and Gekkostate, I believe they're totally asinine and detrimental to any enjoyment one may have in the series, as they're completely and fundamentally different entities with different objectives and philosophies - this does not make one conceivably "better" than the other. As for Truth, thus far I've reserved judgement on its effectiveness as a character, and place in the story, but it's obvious that there's some amount of depth to "it", and we'll just have to see where its story goes.

My take is that just like the first series, Ao has plenty of flaws strewn about itself, but in no way do I see it being anything close to a "failure"; If I were to give the first series a solid "8.5", I'd give this one between a "7.8 - 8.0" up to this point - I don't think it's quite reached the heights of its predecessor just yet, but I certainly see the potential for it to do so.


Shocked? We have been ragging on the show since episode 2 and you are shocked? Check out the other episode discussions to refresh your memory. We all had high expectations for this show but it didn't live up to the hype.

Stop being a rabid fanboy and take the fairy dust out of your eyes. This show has not delivered and has been a mess for the last 6 episodes.

The main characters are properly developed? What? In the episode 7 discussion you were telling us how the writers of the show will develop the characters in time and now you say they are properly developed? Please tell me how an annoying character like Elena who hasn't changed one bit is developed? What about Fleur? A cute little backstory isn't enough and we need to see some changes in her charater. Ao is still moronic and clueless of the world.......so no for him. Naru hasn't been fleshed out at all and now has run off with the transgenderd villain. Explain to me how they are developed?

Gekkostate and Gen Blu have to be compared because they are similar as the place where the protagonist lives and is taken care of. Just compare the characters in EU7 who were lovable and had true characterization compared to the generic cardboard personality of Gen Blu.

Truth is a mess and I mean a disaster as a main villain. So let me get this straight, we went from a brilliant antagonist Dewey to this frilly feminine guy by the name Truth who shoots energy out of his chest. Dewey had no random ass pull power or anything like that, he was a human who used his influence to bring his idealism to the world. Not say "I am looking for the truth in the world"......the hell is that?

The romance in the show is also a walking tornado of failure. So let me get this straight. Ao was originally had a girlfriend who was Naru and been with her for many years of his life. A weird feminine guy recites some generic cutsy line and she goes off with him? What about Ao? Then are forced to have this awkward Fleur and Ao relationsip...which is unrealistic. When I was 13 I sure as hell never got a 16 year old girl to like me........why......because maybe she is interested in people her own age.

"I don't think it's quite reached the heights of its predecessor just yet, but I certainly see the potential for it to do so.".

That quote right there is ridiculous by all accounts. Eu 7 is a fantastic anime that has respect in the anime community and has a good score on MAL to back it up. While EU 7 the hype died down and MAL score slipping everyday shows it. This show went from a 8.13 to 7.90.....nuff said. You even mention this show has many flaws and yet you give it a 8? An 8 is an amazing series and this show doesn't fit the bill.

I honestly am not a hater for this show, I was really excited for this show and had really high expectations. I thought the first two episodes were 8.7-9.3 range but from there it went down hill.

Except I never said I was "shocked", just that I don't believe for a second it should be receiving the demerits its been getting. Also, if I were a rabid-fanboy, I would be nigh-terrified to admit any amount of failures and shortcomings that this series has displayed, which I absolutely haven't been afraid to do (I could recite plenty of complaints from even the best episodes of this series). What I'm trying to say, however, is that it's better than the sum of its parts; that the developing story and solidarity in its setting (convoluted as it may be, at times) has been gracefully executed enough that it can make up for the relatively standard-fare characterization (which I don't think is "bad"). Regarding character development, I think there has been an adequate amount up to this point to serve the story, and just enough that I can form a meaningful attachment to the characters, though I never thought it was *as* good as Eureka Seven's. In the last two episodes, rather than cut through swaths of character-driven flashbacks, the show developed the characters in the ways that I prefer, which is through conversation, situational expression, and actions; Fleur and Ao haven't disappointed me on this front yet, though Elena seems to remain blissfully aloof in this regard. Regarding Ao being "moronic", I think that's too harsh of a judgement for a headstrong 12 year-old - his ignorance of the world I think has been adequately depicted, and is a flaw of his character, though it comes largely from being just so young; we shouldn't expect him to be a prodigal child in every respect.

Again, I think it's too early to judge Truth as a character, though there's nothing I can do to change your first impressions of him. It's certainly a more direct approach than the nuanced and complex villain that Dewey is (nor will I ever likely say that he's half as good an antagonist), but have relatively high hopes for him nonetheless; within the context of the universe, I don't feel his powers are out of place at all, and wouldn't be surprised to see if there's some greater malevolent forces at work here aside from (seemingly) Truth.

To reiterate your point:
Darkdrone said:
The romance in the show is also a walking tornado of failure. So let me get this straight. Ao was originally had a girlfriend who was Naru and been with her for many years of his life. A weird feminine guy recites some generic cutsy line and she goes off with him? What about Ao? Then are forced to have this awkward Fleur and Ao relationsip...which is unrealistic. When I was 13 I sure as hell never got a 16 year old girl to like me........why......because maybe she is interested in people her own age.


You see, I think a large misconception people are having about this series is that romance actually plays any sort of major theme here. I'll concede, that I definitely feel that Ao and Naru may have some feelings for each other, and that in the end, may influence some major event of the story, but definitely do not feel it bears the same sort of significance that Renton and Eureka's romance drove in the first series; it was probably the greatest driving theme of the story, and don't believe that Ao's story places the same kind of emphasis on this regard. Outside of Naru, I don't think Ao is really seriously romantically invested in anyone, and that anything Fleur feels for Ao is nothing more than puppy-love, or a simple crush. Viewing this series as a romance in any way I think is a mistake. Also: I seriously doubt Naru's investment in Truth is anything romantic.

I was also hoping I wouldn't have to do this, but let me explain the way I rate things:
"10" is obviously a masterwork in my book, and is only reserved for a series which I can conceivably deem as artistically, thematically, technically, and in general, structurally flawless; what the series was aiming to accomplish, and how I personally (subjectively) received it also plays into the way I rate something. To go on, I view "9" as something truly great, and must be technically competent in everything it accomplishes, while bringing something unique or exemplary to the table in terms of entertainment. Conversely, I may give an "8" to something which I deem technically competent, but suffers from certain flaws that fail to substantiate, or achieve the inherent potential it possessed, but is in no way close to anything bad or mediocre. Coming down to "7", I still feel a series is good, but there are a number of noticeable flaws and / or technical problems that keep it from being a thoroughly entertaining experience like "8-10" can provide. Still, however, such a score to me means that it's at the very least palatable, and worth at least some cheap entertainment (most technical aspects must at least be sound). Anything from the "1-6" range for me is just varying levels of badness to plain mediocrity; you won't see me rating much in this range, as most of the time I won't even bother with such titles. Finally, anything below a "10" I view with a certain degree of subjectivity, and can go so far as to influence my score by as much as a point (both up and down). For example, I objectively might be able to rate "Death Note" a 9 in terms of technical mertis all-around, but find enough personal distaste in some aspects to lower it to an "8". Conversely, I see a title such as "Tiger and Bunny" having plenty of noticeable flaws and technical problems, and from an objective standpoint, would probably rate it an "8". However, the incredible script, characterization, and perseverance that the producers in a moe-saturated industry managed to accomplish with the barest of bones and funding is enough I feel to bump it up to a "9".

To conclude, my score of "7.8-8.0" I don't think is as stellar as you're probably thinking: I think it's a good deal flawed in many ways, but is pulled up by its many exemplary qualities, such as the aforementioned art, animation, audio quality, and the complexity of its storytelling. While the characterization certainly needs work, I think it's getting the job done, at least, enough to the point where any of these other qualities actually matter.
Modified by Dangerr, Jun 15, 2012 10:29 AM
 
Jun 15, 2012 6:52 PM

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Aren't you people forgetting its only been 9 episodes. As much as I love wall of text and debates keep in mind this anime still has potential to flourish.

So far the only thing I dislike about the show is Truth, he basically came out of nowhere and it still hasn't been reveled what his true intentions are.

As for the character development, its probably too early to say, I hope Naru gets more screen time since she hasn't been contributing to the story recently.
 
Jun 16, 2012 4:01 AM

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tbh the reason why people hate AO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J95y8nJ9-7M ( cant stop rewatching xD )

lets hope some awesome shit happens in the comming episodes
 
Jun 16, 2012 1:14 PM

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Truth isn't making the show any better. He's a character who the writers put across as mysterious in the wrong kind of way. He's too camp in character design and quite bland in motivation (whatever the hell it is at this point; 'finding the truth of the world' is a tad vague). I don't feel a sense of danger whenever Truth's around the other characters, and as someone mentioned earlier, I'll agree that he is a boring antagonist.

I wish the writers would have instead made antagonists out of each person Truth was shapeshifting as in the beginning and had all of them pitted against Ao and friends, instead of this badly designed and poorly written character.
I know Kung-Food!
 
Jun 17, 2012 9:30 AM

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The exaggerated fanservice doesn't make it any easier...
 
Jun 17, 2012 11:33 AM

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Where was this weeks episode?
 
Jun 17, 2012 11:57 AM

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This was a very well done episode. I guess Ao wants to play Mr.Hero now.
 
Jun 17, 2012 12:48 PM

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Really, Ao should have enjoyed the view from the inside of his IFO while two beautiful girls were on it in their swimsuits. What a lucky guy, who doesn't know how lucky he is! lol

There seems to be some development in here but for some reason it makes a little sense to me. Especially, Truth. He is a complete mystery and the fact that he is so powerful and has a great affect on the story makes it even more uncomfortable to have so little information regarding him.
And slowly, you come to realize... It's all as it should be...
 
Jun 17, 2012 1:24 PM

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ovoon7 said:
Where was this weeks episode?


there was none. i dont remember why tho xD

also: truth is the messenger of the secrets. secrets seek to destroy this imperfect world for some reason. this is prolly how its gonna be ._.
 
Jun 17, 2012 6:38 PM

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The reason Eureka 7 was really good was because of the attachment we viewers had for the characters. We didn't want any of them to die, even though we did sometimes. The real deal was the love relationship between Eureka and Renton, Dominic and Anemone, Gilland and Talho, etc. However all these took 50 episodes.

In this series, Mr. Bruno (for example) dies and felt no sadness, since it was a character who was introduced in the beginning of an episode and killed in the end of it. I don't really see how everything will be explained within 24 episodes unless they decide to extend it for X or Y reasons.

I will keep watching and hoping it gets better.
 
Jun 18, 2012 12:30 AM

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Yeah like everyone else I feel AO just doesn't have the appeal like the original did. By the ninth episode I had already been hooked by the Gekko crew. So many different personalities and it just had a nice atmosphere to kick off the series. However AO is just leaving me detached from all characters to the point where I just don't care. I'm still going to keep watching in hopes of a return of the old cast, but it's looking dim and I can't see anything in the plot that might lead to a longer series like the original. They better pull something big off quick or this might get put on hold.....
 
Jun 18, 2012 6:04 AM

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Hmmm more murder scenes
Didn't expect that with this kind of art/settting
 
Jun 18, 2012 9:53 AM

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DEWoody said:
Yeah like everyone else I feel AO just doesn't have the appeal like the original did. By the ninth episode I had already been hooked by the Gekko crew. So many different personalities and it just had a nice atmosphere to kick off the series. However AO is just leaving me detached from all characters to the point where I just don't care. I'm still going to keep watching in hopes of a return of the old cast, but it's looking dim and I can't see anything in the plot that might lead to a longer series like the original. They better pull something big off quick or this might get put on hold.....


I doubt the old crew will appear. As it was pointed out in these forums with screenshots and all from the last episode of the Eureka Seven. Nirvash and the old man in the gekko go are stating how they are leaving and taking half of the people with them. With the Gekko crew in one universe and the Scab Coral in another. If this is true in the end, then don't hold your hopes of seeing the old crew anytime soon.
 
Jun 19, 2012 10:56 AM

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Anyone else get the Aquarion Evol reference? Elena jokes if Fluer and Ao want to Gattai because of their recent closeness.
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Jun 19, 2012 11:48 AM

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thecandyman328 said:
Anyone else get the Aquarion Evol reference? Elena jokes if Fluer and Ao want to Gattai because of their recent closeness.


honestly that could be a reference to many animes xd
 
Jun 20, 2012 7:26 PM

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hmmm i dont know whats, what anymore so many blanks


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Jun 20, 2012 10:08 PM

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Reserve judgement on whether it is a good series after it's over eh?

The original series didn't get really good until around halfway through when Renton was away with Charles and Ray. Like others have said before, it's only been 9 episodes so let us wait. No point in criticizing until we know how the story was handled.

Btw, anyone know how long this series/season is going to be?
Is it wrong for a growning boy to be a sucker for a good romance?
 
Jun 21, 2012 10:49 AM

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BXRBudda said:
Reserve judgement on whether it is a good series after it's over eh?

The original series didn't get really good until around halfway through when Renton was away with Charles and Ray. Like others have said before, it's only been 9 episodes so let us wait. No point in criticizing until we know how the story was handled.

Btw, anyone know how long this series/season is going to be?


I agree. It's only been 9 episodes. If we were told every secret of the series now, the same people would be whining that there's no mystery.

And isn't it 24 episodes long?


Just pull the trigger...
 
Aug 20, 2012 2:51 AM

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Eureka's gotta come back into this somehow, same with Renton. I gotta believe that...and truth is intertwined with it.
 
Nov 27, 2012 3:09 PM

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Tbh the truth looked badass after he blew up that car but those gloves he wears look like kitchen mittens
Anyways I like Ao far more than Renton. Renton use to cry so freaking much it got old although he changed waaay into the series I'm talking 20+ for character development. Also when those two girls were sitting on nirvash I would have no problems looking at their back sides from nirvash
 
Jan 3, 2013 2:51 AM

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so truth is homo afterall...

that's not a handshake.. that's a "i'm gonna rape you tenderly" hand touch

don't ask how i know these things (no homo)
 
Jun 1, 2013 3:43 AM

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Mediocre episode, but the next one looks pretty interesting.
 
Oct 5, 2013 11:20 PM

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I'm watching the series again on home video release and I am realizing that Ao's path through the story was more planned than what I initially thought.

Naru saying Truth was her "Shadow Collosus" was exactly wrong.
 
Aug 21, 2014 3:08 PM

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Pretty nice episode once again, the development is going pretty steady however the feeling I get from this series is totally different than the prequel which is a bit sad :/
 
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