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Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion


May 12, 2012 11:58 PM

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I also heard that today (May 13th) is also Saber's birthday? Fact or fiction?
 
May 13, 2012 12:00 AM
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I should have seen it coming! Why didn't I see it coming? The signs were all there =/ Shame on me! I rly pity Kiritsugu. His mind is still pretty confused but taking a desicion to save oh so many more lives than the person who rly thought family is hard =/ As Natalia said, he has too much potential =/
 
May 13, 2012 12:01 AM

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If I was Natalia I would have hoped more for some C4 and a parachute but alas shit hit too fast TBH.

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May 13, 2012 12:03 AM

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Fate/zero, truly a blood carnival. Everybody is dying one by one with each episode.

They must have planned to air this episode during Mother's day.
 
May 13, 2012 12:08 AM

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xahjun said:
This episode is awesome! It's very emotional. Natalia knew that Kiritsugu is going to destroy the plane, yet she didn't try to prevent it. Instead, she spend her final moments talking to Kiritsugu. This show how much Natalia understand Kiritsugu. This somehow move me.
I'm sure many people would had guess that Kiritsugu is going to shoot down the plane when he set sail with his err bazooka?
Anyway this episode is 5/5

I agree completely. I found that to be very touching; her smile at the end broke my heart.
 
May 13, 2012 12:11 AM

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DaisyDuck3008 said:
"Hey Kerry, what do you want to be when you grow up?"

"I.......


It breaks my heart when I think about it...^_____^

5/5


lol
 
May 13, 2012 12:32 AM

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Holy jesus. Time just flies. Fantastic episode, no complaints here.

Got to say though, this is why I hate philosophy, it's all a bunch of back and forth crap. To kill one person to save many, or to let many die to save one. Just thinking about it makes my head hurts.
Modified by Kurogashi, May 13, 2012 12:43 AM
 
May 13, 2012 12:34 AM

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repenting for what he didn't do to Shirley because he caved in to his own emotions that cost the whole village their lives

I cried when Natalia smiled before being blown into little pieces. D:

so sad :(

 
May 13, 2012 12:38 AM
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Oh man, can't believe I didn't see that shit coming.

Loved this week's ep; the last 10 minutes was bloody glorious.
 
May 13, 2012 12:44 AM

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Great episode, that final part was very touching. Next episode back to the present.
 
May 13, 2012 1:06 AM

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I cried. I'll admit I didn't see the end coming so I let out a horrified squeak when he pulled out that missile.

And there're Kara no Kyoukai vibes flying all over the place, especially with all the Kalafina. Just makes me love it more.
curiouser and curiouser :)
 
May 13, 2012 1:06 AM

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Not really important for main plot.... Only important part was about those magic circuit severing bullets.....

But a good episode nevertheless......

4/5
 
May 13, 2012 1:23 AM

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When he pulled up that RPG...I was like no man, Kiritusugu. I don't like where this is going... But oh well. How lovely to see that this was aired on mother's day as well. Kiritsugu is one badass character. To see him break down was really emotional. Shirley ;_;

Indeed a gifted person to close out his feelings whenever he pulls the trigger. Not everyone can be saved. Not by Emiya standards at least.
 
May 13, 2012 1:28 AM
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This is stupid! They should be land fucking plane, broke cockpit window, take her out and then burn the plane. I don't get it!
 
May 13, 2012 1:34 AM

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Stark700 said:
I also heard that today (May 13th) is also Saber's birthday? Fact or fiction?


Not actually official but Saber fans around the world celebrate Saber's Birthday on May 13, and its been celebrated on this day for three years already.

Happy Birthday Saber!

On the Topic: It is a great episode and I really like how dramatic they made this part. Even I who already read the LN, shed tears for the last 5 mins of the episode.
 
May 13, 2012 1:45 AM

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Amazing episode, I got emotional when he broke down.
I really loved the fact that this was 2 episodes long, this guy is awesome and I have a lot of respect for him.
I'm looking forward to next episode, which will be the normal kind of stuff again.
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page.
 
May 13, 2012 3:11 AM

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Great episode! Glad to finally see how Kiritsugu was formed as a character. Pretty sad too.
 
May 13, 2012 3:28 AM

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That was damn twisted.. what did I just watch...
Kiritsugu chose to kill Natalia to save many people, but I believe there are better solutions than that...

ussrko said:
This is stupid! They should be land fucking plane, broke cockpit window, take her out and then burn the plane. I don't get it!


This, for instance. She didn't have to land the plane in New York, of all possible places she could've just land on water and get rid of all those ghouls.

Btw, glad to see the connection between Kara no Kyoukai anime and FZ (the cigarettes' brand)
Modified by Reim_Seranth, May 13, 2012 3:48 AM

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May 13, 2012 4:03 AM

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May 13, 2012 4:05 AM

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ussrko said:
This is stupid! They should be land fucking plane, broke cockpit window, take her out and then burn the plane. I don't get it!


Kiritsugu know that if a single bee(or whatever weird insect it is) escape, the whole town could end up like his hometown. (and it's a town, not just a small village)

He had also told Natalia before that he will had to kill people in order to save more people. Maybe that's why I see it coming?

Before he set sail I was there wondering how is he going to help...?
 
May 13, 2012 4:13 AM

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Terrible episode:

1) 2 episodes for irrelevant filler/flashback in series? I don't mind if it was BD-exclusive OVA, but not here.

2) Situation as a whole is full of ...
There is no a single one parachute in passengers plane?
Even so, such a badass mercenary as Natalia couldn't sync her jump from cargo bay in to the water with Kiritsugu's rocket launch? Autopilot ftw.
Even so why not just land on water? All bees and ghouls will just drown with the plane. Planes are freaking hermetically sealed.
Also. Such a well-known freelancer cannot require Church/Magi help with cleansing the plane? Are you kidding me?
 
May 13, 2012 4:15 AM

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A little predictable, but nonetheless incredibly entertaining. What a fantastic couple of episodes - I almost feel that they didn't mine this backstory enough. It could have been another series altogether, or a movie. This is a definite step up from the first season and far beyond Fate/stay night. I'm glad I gave this series a chance.
 
May 13, 2012 4:25 AM

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This one was painful to watch. Btw Kiritsugu and Archer are very similars
Modified by gemanepa, May 13, 2012 4:31 AM
 
May 13, 2012 4:42 AM

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This was a very strong episode especially near the end i knew he was going to kill her towards the end he didn't have a other choice but the emotional reaction afterwards came as a surprise.
This episode also confirmed that Emiya was a natural born killer someone who can kill someone for the first time without any emotions at all, there only few people who can do this.
It also explained why he is emotionless most of the time in this series and why he doesn't care what others think at all.

The plain was already descending for landing by the time Emiya shot it else he would not have been able to hit it normally a passenger liner flies much to high for a grenade launcher to hit it.
it came as a surprise that the US airforce didn't take that plain down if they knew what was going on onboard they would have definitely taken it down it would have been much to dangerous to let that thing land.
 
May 13, 2012 4:58 AM
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Kiritsugu is totally awesome, they should've shown these two episodes earlier, maybe in between the seasons: 5/5
 
May 13, 2012 4:59 AM

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Absolute..

I don't notice how time flies.
 
May 13, 2012 5:14 AM

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wakka9ca said:
Some people just didn't care about that character. Thus, it's a boring episode to watch for them. People have to understand that if someone don't care about a character, an episode featuring uniquely that character would be extremely boring. That's essentially how I felt about the entire season of Madoka.

Last thing we want to see here is a fan vs. hater argumentation between those who like and dislike Kiritsugu.

Now, this episode was a bit slower in pace but had a very touching build-up. It didn't really bring anything new to Kiritsugu's character but it's a nice break from the usual pacing. Good episode. Need to bump the scoring at this speed.


this. a solid and logical reason for those who will have endless ranting about this past two eps.

anyway, i'm just speechless about this episode, though not adding new to Emiya's character, it fleshed out his personality, ideals and basically the reason for the way he do his things

Emiya Kiritsugu is one admirable main character for me, just love him
Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch.
 
May 13, 2012 5:20 AM

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Arqentum said:
Terrible episode:

1) 2 episodes for irrelevant filler/flashback in series? I don't mind if it was BD-exclusive OVA, but not here.

2) Situation as a whole is full of ...
There is no a single one parachute in passengers plane?
Even so, such a badass mercenary as Natalia couldn't sync her jump from cargo bay in to the water with Kiritsugu's rocket launch? Autopilot ftw.
Even so why not just land on water? All bees and ghouls will just drown with the plane. Planes are freaking hermetically sealed.
Also. Such a well-known freelancer cannot require Church/Magi help with cleansing the plane? Are you kidding me?


1).ordinary flashback hater comment.And if you see it like this then Caster and Ryuunosuke where also irrelevant to the story.
2).Why would there be a parachute in a passenger plane?Commercial airlines do not carry parachutes as it is unlikely to be in a situation which would merit their use.
From which altitude should she jump into the water?
how would she survive the impact? and even if she survives the crash she has the bees and Ghouls(who have more chances to survive the crash) to worry about until she gets out.
How would she communicate with them to ask their help?

And as Aversa said the plane was already descending for landing.

AmberFebruary said:
wakka9ca said:
Some people just didn't care about that character. Thus, it's a boring episode to watch for them. People have to understand that if someone don't care about a character, an episode featuring uniquely that character would be extremely boring. That's essentially how I felt about the entire season of Madoka.

Last thing we want to see here is a fan vs. hater argumentation between those who like and dislike Kiritsugu.

Now, this episode was a bit slower in pace but had a very touching build-up. It didn't really bring anything new to Kiritsugu's character but it's a nice break from the usual pacing. Good episode. Need to bump the scoring at this speed.


this. a solid and logical reason for those who will have endless ranting about this past two eps.

anyway, i'm just speechless about this episode, though not adding new to Emiya's character, it fleshed out his personality, ideals and basically the reason for the way he do his things

Emiya Kiritsugu is one admirable main character for me, just love him


My point is that if you dont like an episode because it focus on a character you dont like you dont need to come here since your opinion is about the character and NOT about the ep itself.From all those that didnt like this ep only one had an opinion about the ep itself.
Modified by ssjokg, May 13, 2012 5:39 AM
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May 13, 2012 5:23 AM

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people thinking that hollywood/anime physics works in every single stories.

Not surprised really.
 
May 13, 2012 5:38 AM

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These last two episodes have easily been the best ones since Fate/Zero Season 1 started in my opinion.

I knew as soon as Natalia got on that plane, she wasnt getting off it. I also figured when he was on a boat that he was going to shoot the plane down.

But yes 11/10 for this episode and the last, they have been the best ones in a long time. Almost sad to be back to the real plot now.


 
May 13, 2012 5:43 AM
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Arqentum said:
Terrible episode:

1) 2 episodes for irrelevant filler/flashback in series? I don't mind if it was BD-exclusive OVA, but not here.

2) Situation as a whole is full of ...
There is no a single one parachute in passengers plane?
Even so, such a badass mercenary as Natalia couldn't sync her jump from cargo bay in to the water with Kiritsugu's rocket launch? Autopilot ftw.
Even so why not just land on water? All bees and ghouls will just drown with the plane. Planes are freaking hermetically sealed.
Also. Such a well-known freelancer cannot require Church/Magi help with cleansing the plane? Are you kidding me?


2) Commercial planes don't have parachutes.

Do you know how many feet above the ground she is? From a moving aircraft? And she's just going to jump to the water, without worrying about air pressure and jumping that high to the water will just kill her instantly?

Natalia wasn't a professional pilot. She even worries that she can land the plane at the airport, and suddenly she's an expert at water landing? And here's what they said about water landing:

"The Economist in September 2006 in an article which reported that "in the history of aviation the number of wide-bodied aircraft that have made successful landings on water is zero."

And these are supposed to be professional pilots.
Modified by neurogal91, May 13, 2012 5:49 AM
 
May 13, 2012 5:53 AM

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neurogal91 said:
Arqentum said:
Terrible episode:

1) 2 episodes for irrelevant filler/flashback in series? I don't mind if it was BD-exclusive OVA, but not here.

2) Situation as a whole is full of ...
There is no a single one parachute in passengers plane?
Even so, such a badass mercenary as Natalia couldn't sync her jump from cargo bay in to the water with Kiritsugu's rocket launch? Autopilot ftw.
Even so why not just land on water? All bees and ghouls will just drown with the plane. Planes are freaking hermetically sealed.
Also. Such a well-known freelancer cannot require Church/Magi help with cleansing the plane? Are you kidding me?


2) Commercial planes don't have parachutes.

Do you know how many feet above the ground she is? From a moving aircraft? And she's just going to jump to the water, without worrying about air pressure and jumping that high to the water will just kill her instantly?

Natalia wasn't a professional pilot. She even worries that she can land the plane at the airport, and suddenly she's an expert at water landing? And here's what they said about water landing:

"The Economist in September 2006 in an article which reported that "in the history of aviation the number of wide-bodied aircraft that have made successful landings on water is zero."

And these are supposed to be professional pilots.


All those prove my reaction to 1)
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May 13, 2012 5:53 AM

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ssjokg said:
Arqentum said:
Terrible episode: ...


1).ordinary flashback hater comment.And if you see it like this then Caster and Ryuunosuke where also irrelevant to the story.
2).Why would there be a parachute in a passenger plane?Commercial airlines do not carry parachutes as it is unlikely to be in a situation which would merit their use.
From which altitude should she jump into the water?
how would she survive the impact? and even if she survives the crash she has the bees and Ghouls(who have more chances to survive the crash) to worry about until she gets out.
How would she communicate with them to ask their help?

And as Aversa said the plain was already descending for landing.


1) Sophistry. Caster and Ryuunosuke had neither a connection to Kiritsugu, nor to this two flashbacks.
L2R. My point is not 'mindless hate towards stupid flashback' (now that is ordinary).
My point is: Fitting two irrelevant episodes about one of the masters in the middle of grail war is off-time and consuming 1/6 (or 1/12) of entire serial's length.

2) Parachute question ... Ok.
Have you even read my point?
She sync her jump off plane (how survive? are you asking how Tokiomi survived his jumping off UFO? No. Why not? ) with Kiritsugu's rocket launch ... via freaking radio. Zero succesful water landing? Exactly what is needed.
And via the very same radio Kiritsugu had a plenty of time to contact with Church/Magi.
Descending for landing? They began talking an almost hour before ETA.


AmberFebruary said:

Some people just didn't care about that character...


My point is that if you dont like an episode because it focus on a character you dont like you dont need to come here since your opinion is about the character and NOT about the ep itself.From all those that didnt like this ep only one had an opinion about the ep itself.


Your point is nothing more than a guess therefore wrong.
I do not base my episode opinion on episodes' focused character.
Kiritsugu along with Kotomine (and Tokiomi ) are the most interesting characters in F/Z.
I don't like episodes' pace/longevity/story/characters reasons.
Modified by Arqentum, May 13, 2012 5:59 AM
 
May 13, 2012 6:00 AM

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Natalia Q.Q
I really had a feeling, after their (last) talk, that Kiritsugu won't see her again ;(






 
May 13, 2012 6:01 AM

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so Natalia knows Tokiomi's secret art as well? never knew she's such a great mage.
 
May 13, 2012 6:06 AM

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awesome episode especially the ending damn Natalia died.... Kiritsugu been through a lot
 
May 13, 2012 6:13 AM

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I never knew that manipulating air currents is fire-attribute secret magecraft and half-succubus that able to release all her preserved prana, in her body, in one go, can kill powerful magician with one spell and not being bitten in a tunnel with zombie-bees is such a lame magi.

p.s. about jumping off cargo bay:

Natalia’s strength in her arms, legs; her endurance, her instantaneous force – all her bodily abilities are greatly amplified. It’s something similar to the enhancement of the body by means of rune magecraft, but for a much shorter period


http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_the_Fate_series

and for better image of what enhancement of body is capable of. A little note from F/SN:


When his body has been augmented through Reinforcement sorcery, always cast by Caster, Kuzuki is not only physically quicker and more powerful, his punches are able to harm spiritual bodies and cause severe damage to inanimate objects. While reinforced, Kuzuki is not only able to fight on even ground with powerful Servants, he is also able to slay them.
Modified by Arqentum, May 13, 2012 6:18 AM
 
May 13, 2012 6:18 AM

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Such an awesome character, that Natalia.






 
May 13, 2012 6:25 AM

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Arqentum said:

1) Sophistry. Caster and Ryuunosuke had neither a connection to Kiritsugu, nor to this two flashbacks.
L2R. My point is not 'mindless hate towards stupid flashback' (now that is ordinary).
My point is: Fitting two irrelevant episodes about one of the masters in the middle of grail war is off-time and consuming 1/6 (or 1/12) of entire serial's length.

2) Parachute question ... Ok.
Have you even read my point?
She sync her jump off plane (how survive? are you asking how Tokiomi survived his jumping off UFO? No. Why not? ) with Kiritsugu's rocket launch ... via freaking radio. Zero succesful water landing? Exactly what is needed.
And via the very same radio Kiritsugu had a plenty of time to contact with Church/Magi.
Descending for landing? They began talking an almost hour before ETA.


Your point is nothing more than a guess therefore wrong.
I do not base my episode opinion on episodes' focused character.
Kiritsugu along with Kotomine (and Tokiomi ) are the most interesting characters in F/Z.
I don't like episodes' pace/longevity/story/characters reasons.


1)Caster and ryuunusoke served only as enemies for a grand battle in the middle of the story which isnt the focus of the whole story unlike the reasons Kiritusgu has for the grail.They didint even want the grail.They could have died in single ep but think about the reactions if that happened.Even I would hate it .

2)Since when all magi have the same arts?With the same reasoning why didnt Kariya use fire against Tokiomi instead of his totally weak against fire bugs?.
Assuming that the Church/Magi had time to do all of this unnoticed in an airport during daylight.They would do nothing and probably ask Kiristugu to do what he was already planning to do.
And apart from the sea(no chances of survival for Natalia,no point to that) I dont think that there was any place near the to do an emergency landing without civilian casualties.


Then you didnt read what others post who obviously have a problem with Kiritsugu.
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May 13, 2012 6:30 AM

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Arqentum said:
I never knew that manipulating air currents is fire-attribute secret magecraft and half-succubus that able to release all her preserved prana, in her body, in one go, can kill powerful magician with one spell and not being bitten in a tunnel with zombie-bees is such a lame magi.

p.s. about jumping off cargo bay:

Natalia’s strength in her arms, legs; her endurance, her instantaneous force – all her bodily abilities are greatly amplified. It’s something similar to the enhancement of the body by means of rune magecraft, but for a much shorter period


http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_the_Fate_series

and for better image of what enhancement of body is capable of. A little note from F/SN:


When his body has been augmented through Reinforcement sorcery, always cast by Caster, Kuzuki is not only physically quicker and more powerful, his punches are able to harm spiritual bodies and cause severe damage to inanimate objects. While reinforced, Kuzuki is not only able to fight on even ground with powerful Servants, he is also able to slay them.


Caster had way more magic powers than any magi alive even when she was alive imagine her as a Servant.And she doesnt use runes.And Natalia probably used that power to reach the cockpit.I dont see how a shotgun and a pair of handguns would get you so far against 200+ Ghouls and bees

Go to 11:50. do you think she has the same power as Tokiomi?
Modified by ssjokg, May 13, 2012 6:43 AM
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May 13, 2012 6:38 AM
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Awwww feels bad man....
This episode was awesome, TTGL awesome even. It has been a long time since something had this kind of emotional impact on me. T_T
 
May 13, 2012 6:40 AM
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Arqentum said:
I never knew that manipulating air currents is fire-attribute secret magecraft and half-succubus that able to release all her preserved prana, in her body, in one go, can kill powerful magician with one spell and not being bitten in a tunnel with zombie-bees is such a lame magi.

p.s. about jumping off cargo bay:

Natalia’s strength in her arms, legs; her endurance, her instantaneous force – all her bodily abilities are greatly amplified. It’s something similar to the enhancement of the body by means of rune magecraft, but for a much shorter period


http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_the_Fate_series

and for better image of what enhancement of body is capable of. A little note from F/SN:


When his body has been augmented through Reinforcement sorcery, always cast by Caster, Kuzuki is not only physically quicker and more powerful, his punches are able to harm spiritual bodies and cause severe damage to inanimate objects. While reinforced, Kuzuki is not only able to fight on even ground with powerful Servants, he is also able to slay them.


By your logic why couldn't Natalia teleport herself out of the plane? You are overestimating her abilities. On top of that if she opened the hatch the bees could have escaped.
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
 
May 13, 2012 6:57 AM

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Strong piece again, so powerful
 
May 13, 2012 6:59 AM

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ssjokg said:
Arqentum said:

1) Sophistry ...

2) Have you even read my point? ...


1)Caster and ryuunusoke served only as enemies for a grand battle in the middle of the story which isnt the focus of the whole story unlike the reasons Kiritusgu has for the grail.They didint even want the grail.They could have died in single ep but think about the reactions if that happened.Even I would hate it .

2)Since when all magi have the same arts?With the same reasoning why didnt Kariya use fire against Tokiomi instead of his totally weak against fire bugs?.
Assuming that the Church/Magi had time to do all of this unnoticed in an airport during daylight.They would do nothing and probably ask Kiristugu to do what he was already planning to do.
And apart from the sea(no chances of survival for Natalia,no point to that) I dont think that there was any place near the to do an emergency landing without civilian casualties.
---
Caster has way more magic powers than any magi alive even when she was alive imagine her as a Servant.And she doesnt use runes.And Natalia probably used that power to reach the cockpit.I dont see how a shotgun and a pair of handguns would get you so far against 200+ Ghouls and bees

3) Then you didnt read what others post who obviously have a problem with Kiritsugu.


1) You refocused to your own sophistry from original point using another sophistry.
I would not even argue about this "master without deep reasons and full-scaled flashback that does not want grail is a background filler" logic.

2) Khem ... are you comparing Matou family walking failure, that never ever in his existence have learned a single bit of magic called Matou Kariya with a powerful well-known mercenary?
I hope my question is self-explanatory and i will not see such terrible and awful post anymore.
Church can cover up a Grail War, what is the problem covering up a single plane in an airport during daylight comparing to that?

As you may Not know, Natalia is a mercenary that:


hunts those magi who received a Sealing Designation and sells their Crests to the Mage's Association.


and during series she said, that he is pretty powerful with a high bounty for his crest. Retrieving these crest is Far more valuable for Mage's Association than a life of several thousand citizens.
Medea's enhancement was an example of what Natalia would be capable.
How does Endurance help against fast little bees in a tunnel? ... there is no point in using it there.

3) Once again sophistry. Stop applying your guesses here. They are wrong.

wakka9ca said:
Arqentum said:
... is such a lame magi.


By your logic why couldn't Natalia teleport herself out of the plane? You are overestimating her abilities. On top of that if she opened the hatch the bees could have escaped.


Another example ...
How does i overestimate her abilities?
I have posted either anime or wiki facts about her powers to the poster that underestimated her powers. Nothing more.

Suddenly good point about bees.
I see no problem here: Kiritsugu would fire as soon as he will see jumping Natali (or even sooner) and bees will in any way either be killed by explosion or be stunned by blast wave and fall in to the water, which is almost fatal for them.
Modified by Arqentum, May 13, 2012 7:07 AM
 
May 13, 2012 7:07 AM

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Pretty good episode, even if the CG and animation were wonky in some areas. Now we can get back to the grail war and watch people complain about there not being any action until episode 22 or so.

Regarding the Kerry controversy: It would be nice if people who dislike this episode weren't blindly called 'haters;' likewise, people reading up on information before making stupid claims like 'filler' would be ace. Those who watch the anime without reading the novels don't seem realize that Kerry is the main protagonist, or at least a major figure in the ensemble. The prologue of the novels even spells this out for you from the very start:

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Fate/Zero:Prologue

I can understand hating the guy, as there's plenty to not like about him, but don't let your bias cloud the fact that he is arguably the most important figure in the story.

These past two episodes are necessary in fleshing out Kerry's character. Not only are these flashbacks in the novels, but there's even a side-story called "Heart of Freaks" that focuses on a mission with him and Natalia. Ufotable will likely animate it as a bonus OVA to go along with the BDs.

Regarding Natalia: She is a half-succubus capable of enhancement magic. This means she is able to punch through walls and other stuff like that. That said, it consumes large amounts of prana and I very much doubt it'd be useful in plane escape scenarios. Nasu's inconsistencies and endless retcons about things like this does not help.

What's more, she is the kind of person who values her life over others. If landing a plane in the ocean is suicidal - which it is - she will opt for a better scenario, like landing in New York. Apply the oft-repeated "ZOMBIE BEES" arguments here.

In conclusion: Please read the novels before spouting stupid statements.
 
May 13, 2012 7:13 AM

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Considering that the grail war is placed within the Tokiomi's territory, the people there are prepared for any mishaps, whereas a sudden outbreak is a lot harder to control.

You don't use endurance to get through the tunnel dude, you use speed and hopefully barge your way past, and while doing that I doubt she'll have time to gather the crest from that dead mage.

Arqentum said:
Suddenly good point about bees.
I see no problem here: Kiritsugu would fire as soon as he will see jumping Natali (or even sooner) and bees will in any way either be killed by explosion or be stunned by blast wave and fall in to the water, which is almost fatal for them.


so two choices. Either she jumps off at high altitude and hope for the best, or she lowers the plane lower and hopefully the speed doesn't kill her, nor there will be any bee left. Either way she will also be blown off by the shockwave as well.

take your pick. both have similar level of risks. Hollywood physics don't always work. Do realise just because you have upped the offensive abilities doesn't necessary mean that it can protect you from impact.
Modified by jeroz, May 13, 2012 7:21 AM
 
May 13, 2012 7:13 AM

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Arqentum said:


1) You refocused to your own sophistry from original point using another sophistry.
I would not even argue about this "master without deep reasons and full-scaled flashback that does not want grail is a background filler" logic.

2) Khem ... are you comparing Matou family walking failure, that never ever in his existence have learned a single bit of magic called Matou Kariya with a powerful well-known mercenary?
I hope my question is self-explanatory and i will not see such terrible and awful post anymore.
Church can cover up a Grail War, what is the problem covering up a single plane in an airport during daylight comparing to that?

As you may Not know, Natalia is a mercenary that:


hunts those magi who received a Sealing Designation and sells their Crests to the Mage's Association.


and during series she said, that he is pretty powerful with a high bounty for his crest. Retrieving these crest is Far more valuable for Mage's Association than a life of several thousand citizens.
Medea's enhancement was an example of what Natalia would be capable.
How does Endurance help against fast little bees in a tunnel? ... there is no point in using it there.

3) Once again sophistry. Stop applying your wrong guesses here.


2)thats the whole point .We know what Kariya is capable of so we dont argueabout his total weakness but when a character with more power like Natalia says she cant do something suddenly you start saying how stupid it is just because she didnt have a way out.And if her powers could help her wouldnt she tell Kiritsugu she could escape without landing?And she always prioritizes survival over job success as YOU may know.
And you forget the whole secrecy staff.They were liucky during the caster fight because of the mist.It would be a disaster if it wasnt for that.

1,3)I could use sophistry as a reason to argue against you too.Your whole points have more holes than mine.
Modified by ssjokg, May 13, 2012 7:17 AM
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May 13, 2012 7:13 AM

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Well. Certainly, there could have been some way for Natalia to escape the plane without causing a zombie apocalypse. Surely, she had some plan. Kiritsugu, being Kiritsugu, just didn't want to take any risks, thats all.


It's probably a bit rude from me to point that out but...
Man, ssjokg, you must really be the biggest fanboy of Kiritsugu.
I swear - you have replied to about every single post, that has bashed him for whatever reason, in the entirety of F/Z discussion threads. This is getting somewhat amusing :D
Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you.
 
May 13, 2012 7:14 AM

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Zyglrox said:

Regarding Natalia: She is a half-succubus capable of enhancement magic. This means she is able to punch through walls and other stuff like that. That said, it consumes large amounts of prana and I very much doubt it'd be useful in plane escape scenarios. Nasu's inconsistencies and endless retcons about things like this does not help.

What's more, she is the kind of person who values her life over others. If landing a plane in the ocean is suicidal - which it is - she will opt for a better scenario, like landing in New York. Apply the oft-repeated "ZOMBIE BEES" arguments here.


What is more safe? Almost guaranteed survival (due enhancement of endurance. Even all amount of stored mana is less than her life, don't you agree?) by jumping in to the water from a somewhat low high before water crash-landing or 100% to be shot by a rocket launcher?


ssjokg said:

1,3)I could use sophistry as a reason to argue against you too.Your whole points have more holes than mine.


I just came to that one point when i was must either be a saint to continue constructive forum or be mindless enough to continue pointless debate.
But.
Thanks for that post. Now i know for sure that i argue not with mindless nor with mindful fan.
Bye bye, troll, i yield, you win.
Or yielding of the opponent without 'FUUUUU'-part is considered a loose? Whatever.
Modified by Arqentum, May 13, 2012 7:22 AM
 
May 13, 2012 7:17 AM

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Arqentum said:
What is more safe? Almost guaranteed survival (due enhancement of endurance. Even all amount of stored mana is less than her life, don't you agree?) by jumping in to the water from a somewhat low high before water crash-landing or 100% to be shot by a rocket launcher?


Punching through walls != necessary strength to withstand an impact into the ocean from that height. She would have likely taken that approach if it were available anyway, considering how guile and pragmatic she is.
 
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