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Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion


#1
May 12, 2012 8:09 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
No OP like last ep.

Kiritsugu grew up fast this ep. and after first 10 mins. (or less), his voice is not by Miyu-Miyu anymore.

His mission shows his ability he learned those years, and the talk about "family" is interesting. So he also killed her to prevent from many people being sacrificed??

Manten is used as ED again.

Sora wa Takaku Kaze wa Utau Young Kiritsugu ver.
Modified by tsubasalover, May 14, 2012 11:54 AM
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!
 
#2
May 12, 2012 8:31 AM

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I wonder how many people are going to be complaining about this episode too. It's totally filler guys, it definitely doesn't take up a good chunk of the fourth novel and provide a much needed backstory to Kiritsugu's ideals and character traits.
Ok™
 
#3
May 12, 2012 8:42 AM

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Survival of the fittest. Our little Kiritsugu learns how to fight, kill, how to smoke, and be badass.


Life certainly isn't easy for mages these days...you think you can live forever?



Now, we have a real problem here:



What a fitting episode, almost like like Mother and son. Happy Mother's Day, Fate/Zero style

Modified by Stark700, May 12, 2012 4:26 PM
 
#4
May 12, 2012 8:45 AM

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why....


5/5
 
#5
May 12, 2012 9:05 AM
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holy fuck!!1! knew he would do that. fucking tough to watch still :(
Dont bother replying to my posts in forums, dont check them afterwards.

 
#6
May 12, 2012 9:35 AM
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zimno said:
why....


5/5


Caster is alive O_O
 
#7
May 12, 2012 9:36 AM

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I thought it was an o.k. flashback episode up until the twist. I was ready to throw my computer out the window until Kiritsugu explained his reasoning for shooting down the plane. I already had a feeling that Natalia wasn't going to make it, but not like that.

Also, does anyone else think Kiritsugu's reasoning for killing Natalia is a little flawed?
 
#8
May 12, 2012 9:36 AM

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GensoAsch said:
zimno said:
why....


5/5


Caster is alive O_O


I just thought that too OMG.
 
#9
May 12, 2012 9:39 AM

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Lucena said:
I thought it was an o.k. flashback episode up until the twist. I was ready to throw my computer out the window until Kiritsugu explained his reasoning for shooting down the plane. I already had a feeling that Natalia wasn't going to make it, but not like that.

Also, does anyone else think Kiritsugu's reasoning for killing Natalia is a little flawed?

I guess Kiritsugu will never forgive himself for letting Shirley live after she begged him to kill her. It was because of Shirley that the entire island was lost so he doesn't want to repeat the same mistake. Where was the plane landing, New York right?; imagine if those bees had escaped the plane.

Besides, I can't see how would Natalia escape the plane without being bitten by one of those bugs
 
May 12, 2012 9:58 AM

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The seiyuu transition from Irino Miyu to Koyama Rikiya for Kerry is a bit weird. Would have liked if MiyuMiyu played the teenager Kerry or a third one voiced him. But Koyama's performance when Kerry cried was just amazing so I'll let it go.
And this was just an amazing episode. This whole flashback really brings out the needed development for Kerry and one episode wouldn't really do justice for it.
Next episode should be back on track now. Thus begins the road to despair.
 
May 12, 2012 10:07 AM

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This episode was more interesting than the previous ep. It's nice to have a better understanding of Kiritsugu, tho I still can't call myself a fan of his. He's just not as boring to me anymore. The final conversation between him and Natalia was sweet. I started to get teary eyed just knowing she was about to die :<

I don't see how Natalia was even able to make it to the cockpit with all those bugs, leaving the plane seems like it would be easier, but yeah, Kiritsugu obviously didn't want to take any chances. Natalia did say she wasn't sure if she could land the plane safely so there's no telling if the bugs would have been let loose when landing and such.
 
May 12, 2012 10:09 AM

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This episode was very emotional for me. I cannot believe that Natalia is dead! I am totally WTF and thus did not comment right away personally. To that effect for me it was a ordeal for the following,

500 frames reduced down to a beauty GIF and Natalia’s death belongs in this thread. It was that scene that tears could not stop. Once realized that she really went up in flames it was excruciating PAIN! It could not stop at all and tears kept on going. Even now it still hurts emotionally.

Seeing Natalia in the following,

It was a refreshing last smile and laughter to remember for me. Hence I made that GIF. Natalia there really has this last happiness feeling. I appreciated that expression of her.

While I admit that last moment in the spoiler
of Kiritsugu's memories with Natalia got me on the road of depression. It was a built up that bursted out my tears later on.

Finally what really made GO BONKERS and JAW DROPPED is Kiritsugu in the spoiler
THE GUY BROKE! HE BROKE DOWN! DAAAAAAAAAMNNNNNNNNNN! That was unbelievable. Truly a sight to see. I never would have though he would break down. My sympathies go to him NO MORE NO LESS! I still think he should have done another Fate but oh well not going to happen I guess.

To end Natalia will be in my BRAIN and my HEART! Despite being fictional.

BTW Image Stitches and Image Dumb DONE!
http://ecchiking99.blogspot.ca/2012/05/fatezero-2nd-season-episode-6-image.html
Many Kiritsugu fans will love this!

GIFs are done in the club:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=441055&pages=1&show=0#msg14754265
NATALIA! T_T That’s all.
Modified by Yumekichi11, May 12, 2012 8:40 PM

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May 12, 2012 10:15 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.


It was because of Shirley.Noritaka wouldnt risk an experiment so big to attract both The Church and the Mage's Association.If he was planning to do that he would lock them up somewhere not let them go around biting anything they see.And Shirley didnt need to bite everyone in the village.Her victims did the same and so on....
Modified by ssjokg, May 12, 2012 10:18 AM
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May 12, 2012 10:16 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
Linkark07 said:
It was because of Shirley that the entire island was lost so he doesn't want to repeat the same mistake.
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.
Linkark07 said:
Where was the plane landing, New York right?; imagine if those bees had escaped the plane.

Besides, I can't see how would Natalia escape the plane without being bitten by one of those bugs
It that happened there would poison all around and death stemming, that's for sure if not a World Epidemic.


Didn't a Dead Apostle made other human beings into ghouls by biting them?; I thought I read that in the Tsukihime manga.
 
May 12, 2012 10:23 AM

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Still no haters?hmm weird
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May 12, 2012 10:29 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.


No, it spread like a regular zombie outbreak would. Shirley drank the potion -> Shirley bit someone -> someone bites someone else -> etc. Same with the bees, except now there are more sources for the outbreak.
 
May 12, 2012 10:30 AM
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http://animuthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/05/fate-zero-s2-episode-6-episode-19.html
More thoughts and stuff here.

Well we get to see the bunches of sequels of Resident Evil here. Too bad no Lesker.
 
May 12, 2012 10:33 AM

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"Hey Kerry, what do you want to be when you grow up?"

"I.......


It breaks my heart when I think about it...^_____^

5/5
 
May 12, 2012 10:44 AM

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a weird mother's day special from fate/zero 2

 
May 12, 2012 10:45 AM

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There was some horrendous CGI in this episode, but at least the plane explosion was hand-drawn.

I felt that Kiritsugu's motive for killing Natalia was more logical, less impulsive, and better thought-out than his motive for killing his father -- and because of that, it was no surprise to me that he was willing to kill her after having already killed his father.

Not having read the LN, I was wondering if this episode would show how Kiritsugu met Maiya (if it was mentioned in the first cour, I completely forgot). Is that something we'll ever find out, or is it just not important?
 
May 12, 2012 10:48 AM

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Linkark07 said:
It was because of Shirley that the entire island was lost so he doesn't want to repeat the same mistake.
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.
Linkark07 said:
Where was the plane landing, New York right?; imagine if those bees had escaped the plane.

Besides, I can't see how would Natalia escape the plane without being bitten by one of those bugs
It that happened there would poison all around and death stemming, that's for sure if not a World Epidemic.
ssjokg said:
Yumekichi11 said:
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.


It was because of Shirley.Noritaka wouldnt risk an experiment so big to attract both The Church and the Mage's Association.If he was planning to do that he would lock them up somewhere not let them go around biting anything they see.And Shirley didnt need to bite everyone in the village.Her victims did the same and so on....
I see. That goes back to what I though. Thanks for confirming that.
the_executioner said:
Yumekichi11 said:
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.


No, it spread like a regular zombie outbreak would. Shirley drank the potion -> Shirley bit someone -> someone bites someone else -> etc. Same with the bees, except now there are more sources for the outbreak.
Well the bees would be harder to kill due to their size and much more efficient at spreading plague itself.
Modified by Yumekichi11, May 12, 2012 7:12 PM

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May 12, 2012 10:59 AM

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fucking epic episode, 6/5
 
May 12, 2012 11:02 AM

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Hakuromatsu said:

Not having read the LN, I was wondering if this episode would show how Kiritsugu met Maiya (if it was mentioned in the first cour, I completely forgot). Is that something we'll ever find out, or is it just not important?


A little bit of that in the next episode without flashback IF they dont cut it.


What surprised me in this ep is that they showed a teenager smoking.It's been too long since a teenager didnt refuse to smoke because he isnt an adult.I really hate that.,at least let them refuse because they dont like it.The same goes for alcohol.never saw someone refusing to drink because of not being and adult.


Back to the ep.Apart to the filler during half and more of the ep -which I didnt mind-I could spot only one difference(if you can call it one) from the LN.In the anime Natalia smiles in the end while in the LN we have no idea what happened.I liked that.

Also LN part
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May 12, 2012 11:02 AM

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I just want to curl up in a ball and cry. Oh wait. I already am.

So this is how Kiritsugu fell to darkness? He really seemed deranged when trying to justify his killing of Natalia. There's only one thing that I'm a bit confused over. Did Natalia know that Kiritsugu was going to kill her? Because she was talking about landing and seeing him again. Hmm.

By the way, teenager Kiritsugu is hella fine. And I could get used to Manten being used as the ED. It's better than the other one for sure.
 
May 12, 2012 11:09 AM
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Hakuromatsu said:
Not having read the LN, I was wondering if this episode would show how Kiritsugu met Maiya (if it was mentioned in the first cour, I completely forgot). Is that something we'll ever find out, or is it just not important?
No, their meeting is not mentioned in this part, though it will be explained by Maiya herself later. And you won't have to wait too long^^
 
May 12, 2012 11:10 AM

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itsvero said:

So this is how Kiritsugu fell to darkness? He really seemed deranged when trying to justify his killing of Natalia. There's only one thing that I'm a bit confused over. Did Natalia know that Kiritsugu was going to kill her? Because she was talking about landing and seeing him again. Hmm.


It depends on the reader/viewer.Others think Natalia knew, others doubt it.Well Natalia should know he would do if any other person than her was on the plane.The problem is did she believe he would do it while she was on it?
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May 12, 2012 11:11 AM

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ssjokg said:
Hakuromatsu said:

Not having read the LN, I was wondering if this episode would show how Kiritsugu met Maiya (if it was mentioned in the first cour, I completely forgot). Is that something we'll ever find out, or is it just not important?


A little bit of that in the next episode without flashback IF they dont cut it.


What surprised me in this ep is that they showed a teenager smoking.It's been too long since a teenager didnt refused smoking because he isnt an adult.I really hate that.,at least let them refuse because they dont like it.The same goes for alcohol.never saw someone refusing to drink because of not being and adult.


Less correctness stuff please.
 
May 12, 2012 11:15 AM

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For the greater good. This is truly a noble man, him and saber actually resemble each other alot but saber takes the side of honor.
 
May 12, 2012 11:19 AM

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ssjokg said:


It depends on the reader/viewer.Others think Natalia knew, others doubt it.Well Natalia should know he would do if any other person than her was on the plane.The problem is did she believe he would do it while she was on it?


Personally, I think the majority of the evidence suggests that Natalia knew perfectly well what Kiritsugu would do. Factually, she looks surprised for a moment when he says that he has the ghoul problem "all worked out" and then smiles with what looks like understanding and acceptance.

Their conversation is a bittersweet acknowledgement of their familial relationship and the fact that's about to end.

Thematically, it seems to complete Kiritsugu's character development into the remorseless killer that he believes would have saved Shirley's village.

Whatever you think, it's been a slightly hasty, emotionally charged two episodes that probably would be better covered in more time in the novels (to give more time for the mother-son bond to develop and no doubt some cool assasination action). I'm looking forward to getting back to the servant battles next week.
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May 12, 2012 11:19 AM

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Really cool episode and finally back to the future in the next episode.

I felt kinda evil for laughing at how Kiritsugu snapped, but you definitely saw that coming. Using Air France flight accident was cool but can be consired impolite towards those who actually died back then.. :/
 
May 12, 2012 11:20 AM

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ssjokg said:
Still no haters?hmm weird


Perhaps they'll come after the episode get subs (not the nico version)
 
May 12, 2012 11:25 AM

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disliked
2nd episode of fate zero that i gave a score under 4/5
only rin's episode was worse...

that crying scene was ugh...
Modified by BloodRequiem, May 12, 2012 11:35 AM
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 12, 2012 11:26 AM

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Mauno said:
Really cool episode and finally back to the future in the next episode.

I felt kinda evil for laughing at how Kiritsugu snapped, but you definitely saw that coming. Using Air France flight accident was cool but can be consired impolite towards those who actually died back then.. :/


The same goes for all the WWII movies,9/11 movie,Titanic etc.And didnt that happen in 2009?
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May 12, 2012 11:27 AM

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Well, surprise surprise! Kiritsugu killed his father because of justice and not some emotional impulse. I guess that theory from the previous thread gets thrown out the window. Lawlz.
 
May 12, 2012 11:32 AM

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kayos90 said:
Well, surprise surprise! Kiritsugu killed his father because of justice and not some emotional impulse. I guess that theory from the previous thread gets thrown out the window. Lawlz.


did you see this line? :

"i didnt screw up like i did with you"
for justice lol...thats funny
again to ease the pain off his guilty conscience
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 12, 2012 11:33 AM
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Mauno said:
Really cool episode and finally back to the future in the next episode.

I felt kinda evil for laughing at how Kiritsugu snapped, but you definitely saw that coming. Using Air France flight accident was cool but can be consired impolite towards those who actually died back then.. :/


Actually I think it's more because Air France is more suitable to use for flights from Paris to New York. This event happens pre-1995, after all.

But I actually surprised they used an actual name for the airplane. Usually Japan will obscure it by misspellings or different name, maybe like Air Krance or Sky France. Wcdonalds is so popular in anime...


BloodRequiem said:
kayos90 said:
Well, surprise surprise! Kiritsugu killed his father because of justice and not some emotional impulse. I guess that theory from the previous thread gets thrown out the window. Lawlz.

did you see this line? :

"i didnt screw up like i did with you"
for justice lol...thats funny
again to ease the pain off his guilty conscience

But that's the whole point of his justice complex. He refused to kill Shirley because he loved her, he didn't do it because of his emotions towards Shirley. He didn't make the same mistake with his father and Natalia, where he separated his emotions from his actions and do the most logical thing, by killing them both.

I'm not saying he doesn't feel guilty about that, but he did kill his father partially for justice too. After all that Shirley incident will remind him again and again what will happen if he chooses his emotions above doing what is right at that time.
Modified by neurogal91, May 12, 2012 11:43 AM
 
May 12, 2012 11:48 AM

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It was just amazing seeing Kiritsugu break down like that after shooting the plane down. Guess that was the last straw that broke the camel's back.
 
May 12, 2012 11:50 AM

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Damn......that's some sense of justice.
 
May 12, 2012 11:53 AM

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Just when I was starting to lose fate in this series, they throw this at me. Loved this episode, felt like 10 minutes, not 24. These two episodes made Kiritsugu a lot less distant character. But somehow this made me like him less. Before he was sort of mysterious/dark, but now he's just neutral.
Oh and the voice actor did an amazing job for Kiritsugu's breakdown.
 
May 12, 2012 11:53 AM

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There's a little easter egg in this episode, Natalia has Touko's cigarettes:

 
May 12, 2012 12:01 PM

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yokaii said:
Just when I was starting to lose fate in this series, they throw this at me. Loved this episode, felt like 10 minutes, not 24. These two episodes made Kiritsugu a lot less distant character. But somehow this made me like him less. Before he was sort of mysterious/dark, but now he's just neutral.
Oh and the voice actor did an amazing job for Kiritsugu's breakdown.


You dont have to like him, only to understand him.
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May 12, 2012 12:03 PM

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I find it funny how in every single episode everyone says it's the best one till the next one.. xD Season 2 is 100 times better than the first..
 
May 12, 2012 12:17 PM

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I'm just speechless..this is getting better and better.
 
May 12, 2012 12:44 PM

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Good episode,for the greater good.

They add fillers this episode but for me it was ok so i wont bitch that much specially since for they did a great job at the last scenes.

Kiritsugu...this is part what i like you even more!! First the filler parts again was not bad,liked how he suffer to build the gun,also we know how he begin his love for cigarets...blame it on Natalia!!

Also some more info about him is always nice but the moment of the episode was the last minutes.....

Natalia first made a mistake not planning if she needed to jump...that was mistake you must always be ready for the worst.
Next the conversation between Kiritusugu and Natalia was great,i think she already knew just as he said he had a plan,from the moment on it was all a goodbye from both of them to each other just by their nature cant say it straight.Also as some say what kind of celebration for 'Mother day' XD

Now....what he did is not the "good" option it was the "smart" option,if the plane hit the ground the chance of spreading was very high so that was the right call....the right call many times isnt the must beautiful one....

The breakdown was amazing for me you really feel Kiritsugu suffering just by time he begins to justify himself of how important Natalia became to him.
For me this was the moment Kiritsugu became the perfect assassin without remorse without consideration,killing his "mother" for the greater good was the last stone in his build as the "Magic Killer"

Well in a whole great episode beyond the fillers,next episode back to the action....cant wait!!
 
May 12, 2012 12:59 PM

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Linkark07 said:


Didn't a Dead Apostle made other human beings into ghouls by biting them?; I thought I read that in the Tsukihime manga.


There Are Some Rare Cases Like Nrvnsqr Chaos And Others(I Forgot Who Are Those).


 
May 12, 2012 1:09 PM

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Ufotable did a very nice CGI render of an A300B2 complete with wingtip fences in the old Air France colours. Even the cockpit was right, although the source picture the studio used was obviously on a shut-down aircraft on the ground. The airspeed indicator read 0 and the backup attitude indicator was tipped over. Such was the detail! Minor snag - Air France's A300B2-200s don't have the range to viably fly over the pond to New York!

Surface-to-air missile. I'd have thought it would be heat-seeking and go straight to the engine, but it went to the top of the wing instead with is rather bizarre. That said, an A300 in Iraq did survive a RPG which missed the engine and hit the outer wing from the bottom-up...

Enough aviation geek banter and onto the anime. It's as if Kiritsugu was interrogating Natalia at the end about her future plans. I think Natalia's decision to retire and be a mother was the final straw in Kiritsugu's decision to shoot the aircraft down. If Natalia were to continue getting rid of wanted people, the remote possibility of releasing the insects may have been worth taking. She is one formidable assasin who can get rid of big targets into the future. Knowing she was going to retire would mean such a risk was no longer worth it as the 'return' would be zilch - she has become a civilian.

I found it amusing how she compared the big Airbus to a Cessna. :P Assuming she was able to land (being no ordinary person, she'll likely do it without crashing), what would have happened was for her to grab an emergency rope (standard equipment) and climbed out of the open-able cockpit window, onto the ground. A pressurised aircraft like the A300 is seal-tight and the cockpit door seemed to be able to keep the insects out as well. What would have been done was Natalia to using her connections to keep the feds out, and quarantine the aircraft until the bugs are all dead from natural causes...or hook up a ground air-conditioning unit and do a fumigation.
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May 12, 2012 1:11 PM

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One of the better episodes; it really matched my expectations on what i was expecting his past to be like; him choosing to kill Natalia along with the rest of the plane was predictable but that doesn't take away the effect none the less; This is where he completely differs from Saber; Saber would have answered that question "i want to save everyone" instead of Kiritsugu from the get go as a kid said "i want to save as many as i can" Saber isn't realistic, and she justifies her actions with honor as a blanket for murder when Kiritsugu realizes what it is and thus showed it after killing Natalia. Dude had a crap life; but it was great for his character development. Natalia knew from the get go that he would choose to kill her also; hence why they had that "last" talk; she also smiled before the plan burned up. Also a note to those who believe what he did was a dirty move like those who got all angry when he set up Lancer like he did; when he didn't was the "good" move, it was the "smart" move, the right choice isn't always the morally good one; like the old paradox of evil killing evil but thus becoming evil; that kind of process is created by human nature and it was shown well here.
 
May 12, 2012 1:12 PM

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They anime ended up presenting Kiritsugus story more thoroughly than I expect. Last two eps have been awesome.

I can now say it's a pleasure to hate such a well done character.

Natalia probably knew what Kiritsugu was up to, I don't think she was 100% sure if he'd actually pull the trigger tho.
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May 12, 2012 1:19 PM
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dio_brando86 said:
There's a little easter egg in this episode, Natalia has Touko's cigarettes:



Excelent work
 
May 12, 2012 1:21 PM

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Lucena said:
Also, does anyone else think Kiritsugu's reasoning for killing Natalia is a little flawed?


nah, the plane was full of zombies he needed to blow up the plane so that the same disaster doesnt happen again, he already felt guilty for not killing shirley, so it was to be expected...
 
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