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Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion


May 21, 2012 7:38 AM
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Why not save her and kill all the zombies instead ?
Why care for the unknown people more instead of your mom ? weird.
His choice is like a psychopath just like his voice.
 
May 21, 2012 7:58 AM
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wigglejelly said:
Why not save her and kill all the zombies instead ?
Why care for the unknown people more instead of your mom ? weird.
His choice is like a psychopath just like his voice.
Become evil to get rid of a larger evil. That's like, Kiritsugu's whole creed. And she was "like his mom" but he killed his father to rid of the world of the danger of a magus that could potentially unleash vampire infestations anywhere, you think he would have chosen his "mom" and risk potentially unleashing a horde of Ghouls on New York City? The whole reason for the two episode flashback is to show how Kiritsugu turned from a normal kid to a killer who'd do anything to get his objective of peace.

And for those who remember Unlimited Blade Works, Kiritsugu is like a more twisted version of Archer. Archer tried his hardest to save everyone if a chance remained, Kiritsugu would just kill them or let them die so as not to risk it.

 
May 21, 2012 1:53 PM

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I did not see the rocket launcher coming lol

Why is Kiritsugu's back-story so much better than the main plot?


I agree. The plot is meh but whenever we get to see the characters stories it becomes interesting.
Modified by Valaskjalf, May 21, 2012 1:57 PM
 
May 24, 2012 11:38 PM

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Very powerful episode and really great to learn about his past. Not really sure how people can say they hate these flashbacks, they were great and shed light on many aspects of the fate series.

Also, very very sad moment in fate history with the death of Kinpatsu-kun. He will never be forgotten and will remain one of the most tragic stories in anime history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5cIjaRrvRY


BloodRequiem said:
ssjokg said:
Yumekichi11 said:
Quick though: was Kiritsugu's mentality after the shit that happened from last episode and the info of this episode like so….”Fuck everything as long as I can put to rest what started my Hell and rest….” could it be he lives only to stop all this for his FIRST LOVE! That would be Shirley as he blushed at that part in the last episode?

Can it be though of like that of his mental change?

No I dont think so.He literally breaks down after Natalia's death unlike what happened with Shirley.When he left the island he just seemed cold for a kid that was playing around before all hell broke loose.And in 1st season he asks Iri if he should grab her and Ilya and run away from all that so I doubt that Shirley is what keeps him going.


tbh the problem is that they stretched half a chapters worth of material into an episode which seemed almost filler like
perhaps if they merged it with a bit of heart of freaks then i would find it acceptable

heres my interpretation:

natalia's death is quite similar to HF

natalia was killed by his own hands so of course it was going to have more of an impact on him


I think you might be missing the point of HF, it's the exact opposite of what we see happen in these flashbacks

 
May 28, 2012 1:53 PM

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Valaskjalf said:
I did not see the rocket launcher coming lol

Why is Kiritsugu's back-story so much better than the main plot?


I agree. The plot is meh but whenever we get to see the characters stories it becomes interesting.


This. It sheds more light on Kiritsugu's character than we get to see for any of the other characters.
Hold the door...
 
May 29, 2012 12:13 AM

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What the hell did I just watch?
I didn't buy his childhood love story at all...
But the relationship between him and his master and "mother" who took him in and gave him everything, that I found special. I was even anticipating that the ghouls would burst in last minute and cut their heart to heart talk short.

For him to do it all in the name of a 5 minute arc devoted to his childhood first love really weakens his character and the credibility of the story.
I don't know what to say...that was the first episode in the entire series that has left a bad taste in my mouth. Everything that happened was great storytelling, all but the fact that he did it in the name of Shirly.
Although I will admit the build up and execution, as much as I hate what happened, was done perfectly. From the slow assembly of the rocket to the tension on the plane.
Modified by AzureBlues, May 29, 2012 12:38 AM
 
May 30, 2012 7:18 PM

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@AzureBlues
What are you talking about? He wasn't doing it in the name of Shirley.
 
May 30, 2012 8:14 PM

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lolzteez said:
@AzureBlues
What are you talking about? He wasn't doing it in the name of Shirley.


He probably was confused by Kiritsugu's line "See Shirley, I didn't make the same mistake this time like what I did with you" or something like that.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 30, 2012 9:02 PM
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BloodRequiem said:
lolzteez said:
@AzureBlues
What are you talking about? He wasn't doing it in the name of Shirley.


He probably was confused by Kiritsugu's line "See Shirley, I didn't make the same mistake this time like what I did with you" or something like that.
Hmm, you can still consider it as him having some regrets about his first love, although the truth is half-half. He became this way BECAUSE of Shirley, but he's not doing it FOR Shirley. If you see it properly he "fails" Shirley by not killing her while she was still madly trying to keep what little remained of her humanity. As such, when he pulls the trigger and destroys the plane, he breaks down and basically says "I can save people now, I don't hesitate anymore" to Shirley, the one he hesitated to stop. and "save". He can't really direct those words to Natalia because Natalia disagrees with his lifestyle choice (Natalia believes in self-preservation, while Kiritsugu chose to save as most people as possible no matter the sacrifices, that sacrifice can include he himself).

 
Jun 3, 2012 12:46 AM
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Hmm, at first I thought Kiritsugu's logic was really fucked up....

But I totally understand why he brought down the plane and as painful as it must have been for him to do it, it was the right decision.

If the plane had landed who knows how many people would've died.

I was really hating Kiritsugu up until this episode, this really explains a lot about him.

I gotta say this was a FLAWLESS episode, absolutely brilliant.

And unlike the raging fanboys, I've been criticizing this anime since last season, but this was really a masterful episode.

Although I do find it hilarious that the flashback episodes are much better than the main plot.

I still don't see the "masterpiece" behind the main plot to Fate/Zero, but at the very least these flashback episodes were absolutely perfect.
Modified by ichig0fan, Jun 3, 2012 12:51 AM
 
Jun 10, 2012 9:01 PM

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how could he have killed his fake mother... damn it i thought the door would have broken down or something... a person you know's life is much more valuable than strangers;/ learn that kerry
 
Jun 21, 2012 4:34 AM

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To be Kiritsugu is to suffer. AND THOSE BEEDRILL ARE CRAZY! XD
"No matter how much of a genius one is, in front of the Uchiha name, they're just ordinary people." - Sasuke Uchiha

 
Jun 27, 2012 8:39 PM

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Well this episode was a very nice complement to the last one, now it really got to me.
 
Jun 28, 2012 11:53 AM

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Why is it that whenever Gen is even remotely associated with a project, something fucking awful will happen? And we, or at least, I, would be expecting it to happen but when it does happen it feels like total kick in the face?

Kiritsugu is a fucking bastard. Although I would do the same, there's like an infinite amount of solutions for that situation. I know plot armor is bullcrap but plot antiarmor is just as full of crap or even more so. "I wasn't prepared for an emergency skydive". The fuck? She's a professional that's been doing crazy shit for years, jumping into a job that's on a plane, but bringing a bunch of guns instead of maybe a parachute? They could have had her have a parachute like a smart professional but still kill her off.

Amazing episode.
All in all, her surviving zombie bees is much less likely then her bringing a parachute (or emergency device, since there's boatloads of magic).
The chip in my mind, it summons me.
I gave my life to your machines.
 
Jun 28, 2012 9:46 PM

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Since episode 16 (or whichever one he killed Lancer's team in), I've considered Kiritsugu to be the most interesting character in this series (with characters like Kirei, Gil, Saber, and Rider that's saying a lot) and it was...uncomfortable to see what formed him. I was starting to get uncomfortable as he got the RPG from that dealer but it wasn't until he actually pulled it out while on the boat that I was like "oh no...".

I think Kiritsugu is a good example of how following the "logical" path can cause someone a lot of pain. Sure, by killing Natalia he spared a lot of lives...but that has to take it's tole and the scene of him breaking down crying really went a long way to show that. I still can't agree with his way of doing things but I can't deny that there is some merit to his actions.

I guess we'll see to what extremes he takes his ideal going forward.
Modified by Ston3_FreeN7, Jun 28, 2012 11:07 PM
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
Jun 30, 2012 9:49 PM

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Looking at what happened last episode, and how they finished this one, well that's pure genius writing. The moment he pick up that missile launcher... shivers down the spine were felt.
 
Jul 2, 2012 12:06 AM

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holy fuck this ep was great
[url=http://myanimelist.net/animelist/lostfallstar&sclick=1][/
 
Jul 7, 2012 3:19 PM

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Truly great episode! Love Kiritsugu's background story!

"Only the dead have seen the end of war".
~Plato~
 
Jul 7, 2012 5:10 PM

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Beautiful and sad episode. Excellent. Enough said.
 
Jul 17, 2012 8:01 AM
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One messed up childhood, explains why he turned out so cold.
ONe sad episode

 
Jul 18, 2012 10:15 AM

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I really liked Natalia. She was great , fuck you.. Kiritsugu.
 
Aug 24, 2012 1:14 PM

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Poor Kiritsugu... Those past two episodes have been so sad :-(

 
Aug 25, 2012 7:01 AM

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aww that was really sad... but I liked the backstory a lot.
‎"Our everyday lives may, in fact, be a series of miracles." - Nichijou
 
Aug 25, 2012 4:50 PM

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Great episode,felt bad for him
 
Sep 13, 2012 12:54 AM

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That was just fucking sad. :(

This whole episode reminded me of Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom.
 
Sep 13, 2012 10:39 PM
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Very touching episode, "doing what you should all the time, instead of what you want is no way to be a man"... what is the true cost of doing what is right all the time.

Yumekichi11 said:
This episode was very emotional for me. I cannot believe that Natalia is dead! I am totally WTF and thus did not comment right away personally. To that effect for me it was a ordeal for the following,

500 frames reduced down to a beauty GIF and Natalia’s death belongs in this thread. It was that scene that tears could not stop. Once realized that she really went up in flames it was excruciating PAIN! It could not stop at all and tears kept on going. Even now it still hurts emotionally.

Seeing Natalia in the following,

It was a refreshing last smile and laughter to remember for me. Hence I made that GIF. Natalia there really has this last happiness feeling. I appreciated that expression of her.

While I admit that last moment in the spoiler
of Kiritsugu's memories with Natalia got me on the road of depression. It was a built up that bursted out my tears later on.

Finally what really made GO BONKERS and JAW DROPPED is Kiritsugu in the spoiler
THE GUY BROKE! HE BROKE DOWN! DAAAAAAAAAMNNNNNNNNNN! That was unbelievable. Truly a sight to see. I never would have though he would break down. My sympathies go to him NO MORE NO LESS! I still think he should have done another Fate but oh well not going to happen I guess.

To end Natalia will be in my BRAIN and my HEART! Despite being fictional.

BTW Image Stitches and Image Dumb DONE!
http://ecchiking99.blogspot.ca/2012/05/fatezero-2nd-season-episode-6-image.html
Many Kiritsugu fans will love this!

GIFs are done in the club:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=441055&pages=1&show=0#msg14754265
NATALIA! T_T That’s all.


Totally agree with you, and gif, best scene of the episode.
BronzeAge
 
Sep 14, 2012 8:17 PM

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Well I think one life can mean more than many other lives but it's a matter of perspective.
 
Sep 15, 2012 3:54 PM

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Man, what an epic episode, it put chills down my spine. Man, what a hard decision to make =(. I can't believe he did that! T_T He could have let the plane land, have his teacher break through the front window and then shoot the plane! Whhyyyy.

"I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika
 
Sep 15, 2012 4:16 PM

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DarkShards said:
Man, what an epic episode, it put chills down my spine. Man, what a hard decision to make =(. I can't believe he did that! T_T He could have let the plane land, have his teacher break through the front window and then shoot the plane! Whhyyyy.

17 pages of explaining why he had to.....
 
Sep 17, 2012 12:14 PM
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Great episode and all, but he did this in the name of Shirley -_-? Wtf, how long has it been? Yet he killed his own "mother" as far as I'm concerned fairly sure Natasha could have escaped from the front then allow him to blow it up. Lol but what's done is done :(
 
Sep 19, 2012 3:00 AM

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Such tragic backround story,really feel sorry for him 1st he killed his father now his mother(not the real one thou).
 
Sep 19, 2012 3:48 AM

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So sad... so Natalia in Season 1 was just a flashback, not something happened nearly before the Grail war.

These two episodes were amazing, now I feel Kiritsugu should win, he is the most complex character and I believe in his reasons to save more people he can.
Tragedy after tragedy.
5/5
 
Sep 20, 2012 1:40 PM

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Ep 18 and 19 have been the best so far. They actually made me care about the character unlike the rest which mostly felt like visual flair more than anything else.
 
Sep 30, 2012 2:42 AM

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Awwww emotion at the end =[
 
Oct 7, 2012 12:36 PM

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wigglejelly said:
Why not save her and kill all the zombies instead ?
Why care for the unknown people more instead of your mom ? weird.
His choice is like a psychopath just like his voice.


100% agreed
i loved the last 2 episodes (in fact i loved every single episode of this season), but idk.... this 1 particular thing, his reasoning etc. for actually killing his "mother", a person so close to him... for total strangers.. without being completely certain that others wouldve actually died... i found that weak !

shirley + natalia
really like(d) these 2 characters

kiritsugu (a character i wouldve usually liked), not so much !
idk why.. but i cant stand him (+ he had lancer commit suicide, fu! (btw.. lancers death-scene was epic)
 
Oct 7, 2012 9:04 PM

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Romeo said:
wigglejelly said:
Why not save her and kill all the zombies instead ?
Why care for the unknown people more instead of your mom ? weird.
His choice is like a psychopath just like his voice.


100% agreed
i loved the last 2 episodes (in fact i loved every single episode of this season), but idk.... this 1 particular thing, his reasoning etc. for actually killing his "mother", a person so close to him... for total strangers.. without being completely certain that others wouldve actually died... i found that weak !

shirley + natalia
really like(d) these 2 characters

kiritsugu (a character i wouldve usually liked), not so much !
idk why.. but i cant stand him (+ he had lancer commit suicide, fu! (btw.. lancers death-scene was epic)


Because these two episodes weren't done well. You get to see how broken Kiritsugu is as a person in the novels.

And no he can't save Natalia and destroy the plane once it lands at an airport.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
Oct 8, 2012 12:43 AM

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BloodRequiem said:
Romeo said:
wigglejelly said:
Why not save her and kill all the zombies instead ?
Why care for the unknown people more instead of your mom ? weird.
His choice is like a psychopath just like his voice.


100% agreed
i loved the last 2 episodes (in fact i loved every single episode of this season), but idk.... this 1 particular thing, his reasoning etc. for actually killing his "mother", a person so close to him... for total strangers.. without being completely certain that others wouldve actually died... i found that weak !

shirley + natalia
really like(d) these 2 characters

kiritsugu (a character i wouldve usually liked), not so much !
idk why.. but i cant stand him (+ he had lancer commit suicide, fu! (btw.. lancers death-scene was epic)


Because these two episodes weren't done well. You get to see how broken Kiritsugu is as a person in the novels.

And no he can't save Natalia and destroy the plane once it lands at an airport.
BloodRequiem said:
Romeo said:
wigglejelly said:
Why not save her and kill all the zombies instead ?
Why care for the unknown people more instead of your mom ? weird.
His choice is like a psychopath just like his voice.


100% agreed
i loved the last 2 episodes (in fact i loved every single episode of this season), but idk.... this 1 particular thing, his reasoning etc. for actually killing his "mother", a person so close to him... for total strangers.. without being completely certain that others wouldve actually died... i found that weak !

shirley + natalia
really like(d) these 2 characters

kiritsugu (a character i wouldve usually liked), not so much !
idk why.. but i cant stand him (+ he had lancer commit suicide, fu! (btw.. lancers death-scene was epic)


Because these two episodes weren't done well. You get to see how broken Kiritsugu is as a person in the novels.

And no he can't save Natalia and destroy the plane once it lands at an airport.


so many pages of explaining why but people still complain.Well I doubt that they read evry single post anyway...
 
Oct 15, 2012 8:27 AM

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Cool episode, I was about to cry when Kiritsugu broke down.
Also, he really knows how to be an idealist without being annoying like Saber and Shiro.

5/5

AlexSadist-sama said:
Well I think one life can mean more than many other lives but it's a matter of perspective.

I agree. I wouldn't kill someone I love for the sake of others.

But then agian, I am not an idealist.
 
Oct 23, 2012 11:50 AM

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good episode and the art in his show continues to amaze me
 
Oct 23, 2012 12:57 PM

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Well its nice to see his past and I know everyone takes things differently but I don't think his past was so disturbing as to him to think that every bad guy should be killed because the only true enemy in the village was his father after that they were zombies so the church and mages had to kill lifeless people including Natalia so I don't understand his call to justice.

Also there are people that have experienced far worse life altering things in their life that truly grants for revenge not a freak accident of zombies started by your own dad.
 
Oct 23, 2012 1:42 PM

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Amon-Raw said:
Well its nice to see his past and I know everyone takes things differently but I don't think his past was so disturbing as to him to think that every bad guy should be killed because the only true enemy in the village was his father after that they were zombies so the church and mages had to kill lifeless people including Natalia so I don't understand his call to justice.

Also there are people that have experienced far worse life altering things in their life that truly grants for revenge not a freak accident of zombies started by your own dad.
Why would they kill Natalia?And he was just a kid back then not a rational adult.For him that island was the entire world.
Modified by ssjokg, Oct 23, 2012 1:47 PM
 
Oct 24, 2012 7:34 AM

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No I meant Natalia was one of the people who killed the village people when they were zombies nothing makes her different than the mages,and executioners? In fact she works for both sides
 
Oct 24, 2012 7:41 AM

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Amon-Raw said:
No I meant Natalia was one of the people who killed the village people when they were zombies nothing makes her different than the mages,and executioners? In fact she works for both sides


She saved him, I think. The executioners and mages would've killed Kerry because he's a witness (mages), or a possible dead apostle threat or something(Church)

Though correct me if I am wrong
 
Oct 24, 2012 7:43 AM

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sagdashin said:
Amon-Raw said:
No I meant Natalia was one of the people who killed the village people when they were zombies nothing makes her different than the mages,and executioners? In fact she works for both sides


She saved him, I think. The executioners and mages would've killed Kerry because he's a witness (mages), or a possible dead apostle threat or something(Church)

Though correct me if I am wrong


i dont think they would kill him or his dad.But they would be very good guinea pigs...At least the mages would be interested enough in his dad's work.
 
Oct 24, 2012 6:18 PM

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ssjokg said:
sagdashin said:
Amon-Raw said:
No I meant Natalia was one of the people who killed the village people when they were zombies nothing makes her different than the mages,and executioners? In fact she works for both sides


She saved him, I think. The executioners and mages would've killed Kerry because he's a witness (mages), or a possible dead apostle threat or something(Church)

Though correct me if I am wrong


i dont think they would kill him or his dad.But they would be very good guinea pigs...At least the mages would be interested enough in his dad's work.


Yep. He already had a sealing designation and was being hunted down.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
Oct 31, 2012 7:31 AM

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Really didn't see the point in interrupting Holy Grail War drama with 2 episodes of Kiritsugu's past. It's not like they're opinion-changing episodes, showing that Kiritsugu had a tragic childhood that would explain him being so cold and cruel in the present; even as a kid he was already a ruthless bastard.
Two unecessary episodes, IMO. Failed attempts at making him a likeable character.


 
Oct 31, 2012 8:02 AM

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Sayuri said:
Really didn't see the point in interrupting Holy Grail War drama with 2 episodes of Kiritsugu's past. It's not like they're opinion-changing episodes, showing that Kiritsugu had a tragic childhood that would explain him being so cold and cruel in the present; even as a kid he was already a ruthless bastard.
Two unecessary episodes, IMO. Failed attempts at making him a likeable character.

Yeah that was the point.*facepalm*
 
Nov 18, 2012 11:09 PM

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That. Was freaking. Masterful.
5/5
Tempted to give this show a 10 if it can keep this up.
Amazing
T_T

I swear, these two episodes could be a standalone OVA and would still be amazing.
Modified by QuiGonJon, Nov 18, 2012 11:14 PM

If you really want to fit in, just put Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your top 5 and have it be the only 10-rated anime in your list.
 
Nov 24, 2012 4:27 AM

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This was actually a quite epic episode I like these back story episodes for a reason! Really great dramatic story with an even sadder ending, I do think we're going back after this episode to the main story line! But if not I'm sure to enjoy either of both!
 
Dec 19, 2012 9:36 AM

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Wait a minute, why the fuck wasn't there a single parachute on that plane?

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