Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 5 Discussion


May 6, 2012 7:24 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 870
This episode felt very rushed. Shirley is introduced and few minutes later she's a monster. o.o" Story-wise, I liked it. If only there was a bit more time to develop Kiritsugu's backstory...
 
May 6, 2012 7:29 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6388
well... Having to kill his own father, our little terrorist have it hard.
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
May 6, 2012 7:53 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1335
This episode had moments with very beautiful scenes and sceneries (i.e. the scene by the river) and made me like Kiritsugu even less. Actually, I don't care about him anymore. He's a failure as a human being. His reasoning for killing his father was completely crazy and stupid. His father (who reminded me of Kirei for some reason) did completely nothing to start the calamity. If it's anyone's fault, it's Shirley's. No one forced her to take the "treatment". Of course, since his father expected it, he should have made more precautions so that it wouldn't happen but I'm certain he needed an assitent otherwise he probably wouldn't have had one since it was dangerous. Also, he was trying to help mages with his research so stopping wasn't an option.

Actually, this made me realise how much is Kiritsugu alike his father. They both do crazy stuff that are illegal and immoral to achieve a "greater good" knowing that people might (in Kiritsugu's case: will) get hurt in the process. However, the fact that Kiritsugu agreed (it was even his idea) to kill his father so fast and did so in cold blood was... shocking. Something is not alright with him. I really can't sympathise with him in any possible way. He's a just cruel murderer with flat personality. Yeah, I do call killing for greater good a flat personality. There's nothing else to him.

I liked the vampires here. It was cool, they are my favourite undead... people... kinda. But it's silly we never found out what happened to Shirley. She was a very important character and we can only ASSUME that she might have been killed along with others by the church/mages. We could have at least seen the body or something. Not that I doubt she's dead, I just find her random disappearance anti-climatic since she was a main charatcer this episode.
Modified by SuiNoByakko, May 6, 2012 9:01 AM
 
May 6, 2012 8:33 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 17239
HikaruIzumi said:
This episode had moments with very beautiful scenes and sceneries (i.e. the scene by the river) and made me like Kiritsugu even less. Actually, I don't care about him anymore. He's a failure as a human being. His reasoning for killing his father was completely crazy and stupid. His father (who reminded me of Kirei for some reason) did completely nothing to start the calamity. If it's anyone's fault, it's Shirley's. No one forced her to take the "treatment". Of course, since his father expected it, he should have made more precautions so that it wouldn't happen but I'm certain he needed an assitent otherwise he probably wouldn't have had one since it was dangerous. Also, he was trying to help mages with his research so stopping wasn't an option.

Actually, this made me realise how much is Kiritsugu alike his father. They both do crazy stuff that are illegal and immoral to achieve a "greater good" knowing that people might (in Kiritsugu's case: will) get hurt in the process. However, the fact that Kiritsugu agreed (it was even his idea) to kill his father so fast and did so in cold blood was... shocking. Something is not alright with him. I really can't sympathise with him in any possible way. He's a just cruel murderer with flat personality. Yeah, I do call killing for greater good a flat personality. There's nothing else to him.

I liked the vampires here. I was cool, they are my favourite undead... people... kinda. But it's silly we never found out what happened to Shirley. She was a very important character and we can only ASSUME that she might have been killed along with others by the church/mages. We could have at least seen the body or something. Not that I doubt she's dead, I just find her random disappearance anti-climatic since she was a main charatcer this episode.

At least you have reasons to not like him.And you didnt think that the ep was bad because it was a flashback.
The only mistake you made is that his father wasnt working for the mages but for the Emiya family(just like Tokiomi does for his).

I believe I can understand Kiritsugu because of the LN(maybe because his father seems more apathetic than in the anime,and Kiritsugu's condition in the scene is more detailed). If there was any mistake that he did that was not killing Shirley,but I doubt it wouldnt end up with him killing his father.But you HAVE reasons for hating him and I respect that.
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
May 6, 2012 8:40 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3512
@Hikaru

Different people, different point of views.

Through my own assessment, this revelation fleshed out Kiritsugu even more and added more dots to his already complex ways. Killing people for a greater good may be considered flat by some, but what if it's your own dad, by a child who has barely hit puberty? In an instant? The fact that it's his family makes it all the more bewildering. IMO, the next episode should conclude this flashback and answer a lot of our lingering thoughts and confusion. I don't think Kiritsugu's father would ever kill his own son, so in a way Kiritsugu has transcended even his father's ways, not necessarily in a good way.

As I stated in my previous post a few pages back, Irisviel and Kiritsugu's encounter should be the key factor in Kiritsugu's flashback (if it's even included, might be separate).
--

Oh yeah, Natalia is awesome!
 
May 6, 2012 8:47 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5218
-Shuda- said:
As I stated in my previous post a few pages back, Irisviel and Kiritsugu's encounter should be the key factor in Kiritsugu's flashback (if it's even included, might be separate).
Iri and Kerry's encounter is already covered in the drama CD in the first season BD box so unfortunately it won't be covered next episode.
 
May 6, 2012 8:47 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 17239
-Shuda- said:
@Hikaru

Different people, different point of views.

Through my own assessment, this revelation fleshed out Kiritsugu even more and added more dots to his already complex ways. Killing people for a greater good may be considered flat by some, but what if it's your own dad, by a child who has barely hit puberty? In an instant? The fact that it's his family makes it all the more bewildering. IMO, the next episode should conclude this flashback and answer a lot of our lingering thoughts and confusion. I don't think Kiritsugu's father would ever kill his own son, so in a way Kiritsugu has transcended even his father's ways, not necessarily in a good way.

As I stated in my previous post a few pages back, Irisviel and Kiritsugu's encounter should be the key factor in Kiritsugu's flashback (if it's even included, might be separate).
--

Oh yeah, Natalia is awesome!


It wont be.the next flashback will be about NataliaxKiritsugu.Unless they put some filler.
For IrixKiritsugu you can watch/hear the Drama cds
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
May 6, 2012 8:50 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1335
ssjokg said:

The only mistake you made is that his father wasnt working for the mages but for the Emiya family(just like Tokiomi does for his).

I didn't write that, maybe my comparison of them implied that but I in no way meant that. Actually, they both feel like they want to achieve THEIR own goal. Kiritsugu might be working for Einzbern family but to me it feels like he's planning somehing else if he gets the grail. So it doesn't feel like he's truly working for them. While his father was working completely on his own to achieve his goal. My point was, what they do is the same thing but they do it in different ways. I really like that because children many times repeat the mistakes of their parents so it's very realistic.

ssjokg said:

If there was any mistake that he did that was not killing Shirley,but I doubt it wouldnt end up with him killing his father.But you HAVE reasons for hating him and I respect that.


Possibly it wouldn't but the shock and stress of what he did would have been much better explanation for killing him than what we had. Especially, because he would have been on the edge of his feelings while right now it was thought through murder. What was even HIS idea. HE came up with HIM killing HIS father. And with that magic field talk, I felt like he didn't want that woman to interfere. He didn't look surprised when she said she destroyed it easily because he said it so that he could kill him himself. That's what I find messed up.
Umm... thanks?
 
May 6, 2012 9:03 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 17239
HikaruIzumi said:
ssjokg said:

The only mistake you made is that his father wasnt working for the mages but for the Emiya family(just like Tokiomi does for his).

I didn't write that, maybe my comparison of them implied that but I in no way meant that. Actually, they both feel like they want to achieve THEIR own goal. Kiritsugu might be working for Einzbern family but to me it feels like he's planning somehing else if he gets the grail. So it doesn't feel like he's truly working for them. While his father was working completely on his own to achieve his goal. My point was, what they do is the same thing but they do it in different ways. I really like that because children many times repeat the mistakes of their parents so it's very realistic.

ssjokg said:

If there was any mistake that he did that was not killing Shirley,but I doubt it wouldnt end up with him killing his father.But you HAVE reasons for hating him and I respect that.


Possibly it wouldn't but the shock and stress of what he did would have been much better explanation for killing him than what we had. Especially, because he would have been on the edge of his feelings while right now it was thought through murder. What was even HIS idea. HE came up with HIM killing HIS father. And with that magic field talk, I felt like he didn't want that woman to interfere. He didn't look surprised when she said she destroyed it easily because he said it so that he could kill him himself. That's what I find messed up.
Umm... thanks?


The Einzbern want the grail.just that and no wish if I remember exactly.But both Iri and Kiritsugu want the same thing.

If he had killed his father because a stranger told him to, he would be an even more messed up character dont you think?thats how I see it...
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
May 6, 2012 9:03 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3512
belatkuro said:
]Iri and Kerry's encounter is already covered in the drama CD in the first season BD box so unfortunately it won't be covered next episode.

ssjokg said:
It wont be.the next flashback will be about NataliaxKiritsugu.Unless they put some filler.
For IrixKiritsugu you can watch/hear the Drama cds


Ah, I see, kind of a let down. Thanks for the info guys, I'll definitely check out the BD version. It would of made more sense to include it at the end of this flashback but I'm sure there is a reason as to why it's organized that way.
 
May 6, 2012 9:04 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 360
CharbbyLoves said:
This Is The First Episode From Fate/Zero I Became Bored. Everything On This Episode Is Meh. I Hope No More Kiritsugu's Past In The Next Episode But It Seems There Will Be Another One. I Guess I'll Struggle It.
What do you mean "no more Kiritsugu's past"? D=
It's been one of the most anticipated things in this 2nd season for me ;o I want to learn more about his past :3 And why not everyone else's too? ^^
 
May 6, 2012 9:09 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Pyr0 said:
CharbbyLoves said:
This Is The First Episode From Fate/Zero I Became Bored. Everything On This Episode Is Meh. I Hope No More Kiritsugu's Past In The Next Episode But It Seems There Will Be Another One. I Guess I'll Struggle It.
What do you mean "no more Kiritsugu's past"? D=
It's been one of the most anticipated things in this 2nd season for me ;o I want to learn more about his past :3 And why not everyone else's too? ^^


Ditto. Of the events that have occured in the anime so far, the entire Team Lancer fiasco and Kiritsugu's past were by far the two plot points that I was most anticipating, since I first read the novel after S1's episode 5.
Modified by LunarMoon, May 6, 2012 9:15 AM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan!
 
May 6, 2012 9:17 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 195
One by one, all this hater who aren't making any sense are coming out, huh?
Normally, I hate backstory episode, but this is splendid you mongrels.
 
May 6, 2012 9:26 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 145
This is some nice story to know about his past!

But too bad that Shirley had to suffer >_<... I liked her.. though you can't blame her of what she did, i mean she just wanted to prove that Kerry's Dad is doing things for the world's good but i guess Kerry's Dad was doing something bad as what Natalia said " a Bad magician ".

Even though Shirley died, I turn my love to Natalia! :D <3

(and its not because she looks alot like Gilgamesh! :3) xD I like Tomboys *_*.
オール・イズ・バニッティー



 
May 6, 2012 10:21 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1327
very emotional episode, at the end it gave me shivers

seems Kiritsugu had a very tragic past
 
May 6, 2012 10:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 398
Such a shame I was enjoying this episode until Kiritsugu killed his father. He went from a normal kid to cold blooded assassin with no transition period at all. I could even accept him attacking his father but to get such a quick clean kill makes no sense with the way this episode was set up. No matter how betrayed he felt by his father I can't believe he would just murder him so suddenly.

It would have been so much better to have Kiritsugu confront his father and then have Natalia make the kill, then we could see Kiritsugu becoming colder and less human as he learns from her. Instead we get this completely unrealistic change in his character. He goes from a normal distraught kid to murderer without any kind of doubt or internal struggle.

Shame because until the last minute this was a pretty good episode. It didn't feel like much of a fate episode but it had a decent horror vibe going on but the end completely soured it for me. Hopefully next week they'll repair the damage by having Kiritsugu questioning his actions and showing some remorse before finally realizing he needs to become a cold calculating hardass to change the world.
 
May 6, 2012 11:00 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 17458
Best episode of this show, in either season, hands down.
LoneWolf said:
@Josh - Makes me sad to call myself Canadian.
 
May 6, 2012 11:02 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 155
So...does anyone actually feel sorry for Noritaka? There seems to be more sympathy for the guy than there was for Tokiomi. Ditto with Risei, though Risei was actually a pretty nice guy. He was a bit underhanded but he had his reasons, and was, ultimately, honest enough to deliver on the command seals. But I didn't see anyone mourning for Risei or going on about how much they hated Kayneth for killing him. Noritaka, on the other hand, was a sociopath, a few steps above Zouken Matou. His only redeeming quality is that he loved his son.

JoshSalas said:
Best episode of this show, in either season, hands down.


For me, it was between this and episode 16, though I ultimately decided that I prefer this one. While episode 16 felt somewhat rushed, this one was among the most heavily polished in the entire series. Ufotable had promised that the primary focus of the season would be on Kiritsugu's development, but I was worried that they wouldn't deliver. Instead I got an extended flashback, several new BGMs, some rather impressive backgrounds and animation, and an ending song, specifically used for the episode. It's nice to see that they've given it the care that it deserves.
Modified by LunarMoon, May 6, 2012 11:37 AM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan!
 
May 6, 2012 11:05 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 145
I enjoyed this episode more than the last one. Kiritsugus fucked-up character was fleshed out quite nicely, the brief change of atmosphere felt good as well.
Kerry-kun, murdering his father, came to be more abrupt than in the novel, somehow. I can't help to wonder what face Shirley would have made, had she lived to witness that.

Dropping Cornelius in there was a nice touch.

So, from the past two episodes we can deduct - you can never be too paranoid as a magus - be it a devout pupil or your own son - never turn you goddamn back to anyone.
Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you.
 
May 6, 2012 11:16 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 207
Is that Cornelius I spot there?
 
May 6, 2012 11:56 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 100
LunarMoon said:
So...does anyone actually feel sorry for Noritaka? There seems to be more sympathy for the guy than there was for Tokiomi. Ditto with Risei, though Risei was actually a pretty nice guy. He was a bit underhanded but he had his reasons, and was, ultimately, honest enough to deliver on the command seals. But I didn't see anyone mourning for Risei or going on about how much they hated Kayneth for killing him. Norikata, on the other hand, was a sociopath, a few steps above Zouken Matou. His only redeeming quality is that he loved his son.

Actually it must have been horrible for Noritaka to be killed by the son he loved. No matter how we look at it, it was horrible betrayal on Kiritsugu's part, since Noritaka didn't cause the whole outbreak intentionally. Even if he did dangerous research, he didn't deserve that sort of betrayal. It would have been fair if Natalia or anyone else killed him, but seeing how his son kills him with cold blood, actully made me feel sad for him.

And I did feel significance of Risei's death and was sort of sad that everyone concentrated on death of Team Lancer, forgetting poor priest. Though it may have been because I knew from novel how much impact it would have on plot.

Tokiomi's death is so awesomly described in the novel that I'm unable to feel sad for him.
 
May 6, 2012 11:58 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 145
LunarMoon said:
So...does anyone actually feel sorry for Noritaka? There seems to be more sympathy for the guy than there was for Tokiomi. Ditto with Risei, though Risei was actually a pretty nice guy. He was a bit underhanded but he had his reasons, and was, ultimately, honest enough to deliver on the command seals. But I didn't see anyone mourning for Risei or going on about how much they hated Kayneth for killing him. Norikata, on the other hand, was a sociopath, a few steps above Zouken Matou. His only redeeming quality is that he loved his son.

While I didn't see him as enough of a character to feel too strongly about him, I do think his death was regrettable.
He was after all, a pretty typical magus, bringing up his son and conducting his research in relative peace and quite. You could call his work unethical but then again, there are plenty of mages who have turned themselves into Dead Apostles and certainly not all of them have become monsters.
Then, a accident happened and he got killed by the one person he did somewhat care about.
You could pity him even further, considering that his death might have very well happened solely due to him caring about his son - had he simply prevented Kiritsugu from having a normal childhood and locked him up somewhere, bringing him up as nothing more than a heir... Well.

I also don't quite understand what you mean by him being 'a few steps above Zouken'.
While you could say that the magus archetype in general has a number of characteristics in common with sociopathy, Zouken also made a good case for being a sadist. Can't really say that about Noritaka.
Modified by Xayoz, May 6, 2012 12:02 PM
Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you.
 
May 6, 2012 12:07 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 77
I love the setting in this episode. but Too bad it ended up a Zombie-slaugthing Area

 
May 6, 2012 12:18 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9905
stAtic91 said:
Zhou said:
Holy shit, I didn't see any of this coming. Is Shirley really dead, Kiritsugu didn't kill her since he didn't touch the dagger, right?
She was probably killed by the Church or Mage's Association.
That's what I assumed.

They also should have shown those kids from the beginning being Vampires or being bitten. RAGE would = to OVER 9000 easily instead of that lady although that was good too and I illustrate it on page 1.

IMO they should have shown Shirley being killed. At least MY TEARS! My tears would be wasted much better on that scene. They still were when Shirley was fucked up with those red eyes. Just maximizing is always best emotionally.

- BLOG - My Club- Easiest way to reach the rest of my thoughts!
 
May 6, 2012 12:20 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Xayoz said:
While I didn't see him as enough of a character to feel too strongly about him, I do think his death was regrettable.
He was after all, a pretty typical magus, bringing up his son and conducting his research in relative peace and quite. You could call his work unethical but then again, there are plenty of mages who have turned themselves into Dead Apostles and certainly not all of them have become monsters.

The only magus I know that did turn himself into a Dead Apostle was Nero Chaos and he was literally a monster.

Then, an accident happened and he got killed by the one person he did somewhat care about.

I'm not sure if it was covered in the UTW translation, since I just watched the episode on Nico Nico, but the novel had this to say about Noritaka:

His father seemed to be intent in continuing. There’s no need to pay attention to sacrifices of this degree. He still needs to keep repeating it until he gets a satisfactory result....... ................ "I knew a long time ago this day would come, so I prepared a motor boat on the southern coast beforehand. You can never be too prepared.”

Kiritsugu reasoned that if he didn't kill his father, that he would simply repeat what he had done on Arimago Island, and that Shirley had simply jumped the gun. Everything I know seems to support this conclusion.

I also don't quite understand what you mean by him being 'a few steps above Zouken'. While you could say that the magus archetype in general has a number of characteristics in common with sociopathy, Zouken also made a good case for being a sadist. Can't really say that about Noritaka.

And that would be why I put him above Zouken, morally. While Zouken acts out of sadism, causing unnecessary pain for the evuls, Norikata is very pragmatic in his approach. He doesn't take any particular pleasure in killing and torturing people.

As mentioned, the fact that he actually cares for his son also raises him above Zouken by a few steps, while not amending the fact that he was an overall terrible person. That's more than can be said for Zouken, who takes pleasure in the suffering of the closest person that he has to a son, Kariya, and of course, tortures his adoptive granddaughter. That said, the man was worse than your average magus, and given what we’ve seen of them, that isn’t a complement.
Modified by LunarMoon, May 6, 2012 12:25 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan!
 
May 6, 2012 12:50 PM
Offline
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4845
Trenerka said:
LunarMoon said:
So...does anyone actually feel sorry for Noritaka? There seems to be more sympathy for the guy than there was for Tokiomi. Ditto with Risei, though Risei was actually a pretty nice guy. He was a bit underhanded but he had his reasons, and was, ultimately, honest enough to deliver on the command seals. But I didn't see anyone mourning for Risei or going on about how much they hated Kayneth for killing him. Norikata, on the other hand, was a sociopath, a few steps above Zouken Matou. His only redeeming quality is that he loved his son.

Actually it must have been horrible for Noritaka to be killed by the son he loved. No matter how we look at it, it was horrible betrayal on Kiritsugu's part, since Noritaka didn't cause the whole outbreak intentionally. Even if he did dangerous research, he didn't deserve that sort of betrayal. It would have been fair if Natalia or anyone else killed him, but seeing how his son kills him with cold blood, actully made me feel sad for him.

And I did feel significance of Risei's death and was sort of sad that everyone concentrated on death of Team Lancer, forgetting poor priest. Though it may have been because I knew from novel how much impact it would have on plot.

Tokiomi's death is so awesomly described in the novel that I'm unable to feel sad for him.
Are people actually so naive to think he wasn't going to use the formular on SHirley eventually? Why do you think he needed an assistant with potential for magic? It's an almost impossible feat to turn a regular human into a Dead Apostle, potential for magic is needed for a succesfull and quick transformation into a Dead Apostle by means of magic (best example would be Tsukihime's Satsuki who Nasu confirmed had potential for magic hence her quick transformation into a Dead Apostle without even being a Ghoul or Living Dead).

Kiritsugu was still showing a little hesitation at first but it all cleared up when his father showed no guilt at all over his part in the whole debacle and was ready to pack and start the same shit somewhere else (he said SHirley was a failure of an experiment, not that turning a person into a Dead Apostle was a faliure), basically treating SHirley as a guinea pig to be discarded at the drop of a hat, he flipped.

And for everyone else here, don't forget Kiritsugu's father had only two options at the very end: death at the hands of the Church or Sealing at the hands of the Magic Association as a "test subject" and literal prisoner (this is what Natalia was ordered to do). There were plenty enough of people on that island to make escape almost impossible, regardless of what he thought.

 
May 6, 2012 12:50 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 7062
Roy Mustang brethren. <3
 
May 6, 2012 1:02 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 145
LunarMoon said:

The only magus I know that did turn himself into a Dead Apostle was Nero Chaos and he was literally a monster.

Still, there are DAs like Zelretch who don't go around needlessly harming people. I don't see any reason why there couldn't be many others like him either. In fact, considering the probability that a rather high number of DAs exists, most of them are likely not overly ravenous.


I'm not sure if it was covered in the UTW translation, since I just watched the episode on Nico Nico, but the novel had this to say about Noritaka:

His father seemed to be intent in continuing. There’s no need to pay attention to sacrifices of this degree. He still needs to keep repeating it until he gets a satisfactory result....... ................ "I knew a long time ago this day would come, so I prepared a motor boat on the southern coast beforehand. You can never be too prepared.”


Kiritsugu reasoned that if he didn't kill his father, that he would simply repeat what he had done on Arimago Island, and that Shirley had simply jumped the gun. Everything I know seems to support this conclusion.

I never implied that Noritaka held human lives in particularly high esteem.
That doesn't make him universally unsympathetic tho, nor does that mean he deserved to be killed by his son.
In my opinion, that is.
Clearly - people's toughs on this matter will differ.

But I am getting a deja vu with this discussion.
In the end it probably comes down to the fact that I view those events (and this anime) from the pov of a magus, since this is more in line with my own way of thinking, and hence can easily justify the actions of people like Noritaka & Tokiomi, while Kiritsugus beliefs just don't sit well with me.
Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you.
 
May 6, 2012 1:05 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2512
Holy shit nice ep xD
I usually don't like flashbacks eps but this was great.
 
May 6, 2012 1:24 PM
めんどくさい

Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2874
Though once again it seems more than enough has already been said about this episode, I've posted my own thought about it on Kat's Anime Blog.
 
May 6, 2012 2:10 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 100
Leon-Gun said:
Are people actually so naive to think he wasn't going to use the formular on SHirley eventually? Why do you think he needed an assistant with potential for magic? It's an almost impossible feat to turn a regular human into a Dead Apostle, potential for magic is needed for a succesfull and quick transformation into a Dead Apostle by means of magic (best example would be Tsukihime's Satsuki who Nasu confirmed had potential for magic hence her quick transformation into a Dead Apostle without even being a Ghoul or Living Dead).

Kiritsugu was still showing a little hesitation at first but it all cleared up when his father showed no guilt at all over his part in the whole debacle and was ready to pack and start the same shit somewhere else (he said SHirley was a failure of an experiment, not that turning a person into a Dead Apostle was a faliure), basically treating SHirley as a guinea pig to be discarded at the drop of a hat, he flipped.

We don't know if he planned to use it on Shirley or any other human. We only see him testing it on plants. And I'm not trying to make him look better. I'm simply saying that he looks less like a monster when we actually see his own child choosing to kill him with its own hands. Not being remorsful about killing entire village is amoral and sociopathic, but deciding to kill your father who truly loves you comes to me as something far worse. If Kiritsugu chose to help Natalia kill his father it would be totally understandable for me. Yet, he arranges the situation to do so with his own hands. At this moment, Kiritsugu seems far more monstrous and so Noritaka in his final moment seems almost pitiable for dying at hands of the only person he cares about.

And Shirley died of her own stupidity, placing both Kiritsugu and his father in grave danger, so I can sort of understand why Noritaka didn't feel exactly sentimental about her at the moment.
 
May 6, 2012 2:23 PM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 287
At least in the novel, when Papa Emiya says he'll have to continue his research from scratch, Kiritsugu realizes that his father will continue to sacrifice people to test his research. And Papa Emiya does imply that he intended to test it on Shirley anyway, he even says he already knew the whole thing would happen eventually, and that he just didn't expect it this early.

Regardless, it's a number game to the hero of justice. By killing his father now, he is potentially saving many, many people from being turned into the dead.
 
May 6, 2012 3:00 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2460
This episode is too good. I'm speechless.
 
May 6, 2012 3:04 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 508
Just amazing! The animation is just stunning. Never seen someone this much work on a TV series anime before. By far the best I've seen. Absolutely stunning!

As expected, Shirley looks sweet and Kiritsugu is like always, a boss. Already as a child, he had what it takes to become a cold heart hunter. And nobody than Natalia Kaminski herself to learn him up. I just can't wait for the next episode!

The ED song. Loved it. Just beautiful!
 
May 6, 2012 4:11 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 70
LunarMoon said:
So...does anyone actually feel sorry for Noritaka? There seems to be more sympathy for the guy than there was for Tokiomi. Ditto with Risei, though Risei was actually a pretty nice guy. He was a bit underhanded but he had his reasons, and was, ultimately, honest enough to deliver on the command seals. But I didn't see anyone mourning for Risei or going on about how much they hated Kayneth for killing him. Noritaka, on the other hand, was a sociopath, a few steps above Zouken Matou. His only redeeming quality is that he loved his son.
I think the different feelings about the three are easy to point out. Although Noritaka would've continued his experiments and the same thing would have likely happened again, it is Shirley's fault for taking the medicine. For some people, the implications that Noritaka would've used Shirley as a guinea pig anyway aren't enough: they'd need to see it to condemn him.

For Tokiomi, a lot of people don't care because of what happened to Sakura even if that wasn't Tokiomi's intent, and because they side with Kariya. Evidently the fact that Rin and Aoi love Tokiomi and Tokiomi is genuinely doing what he thinks is best for his family (even if he makes a bunch of stupid mistakes with that) does not even out the negative things a lot of people feel about him. A few people said that they wish Kariya would've killed Tokiomi, I believe. Nevermind how Aoi or Rin would feel about that, that's totally okay and Kariya would be a hero for that. Oh, and of course, it doesn't help that even his own Servant found him boring.

Finally, as for Risei, we don't see him much and don't really have a lot of reasons to be attached to him. In addition, he was cheating by helping Tokiomi (see above for how that's negative points) and, well, look at what happened to Kayneth. I'm sure not many people approve of Kayneth murdering Risei, but when you look at what happened to Kayneth, it's hard to not feel at least a little sorry about him too.

Now, that said, Tokiomi is the one I have the most sympathy for, just because he didn't know how all the stuff he did turned out (would've been nice of Kariya to, you know, TELL HIM), the scene with Rin proves that he loves her (in the novels, after that conversation he has renewed resolve to win the war so he can be the father she's so proud of), and, in the anime, at least, Tokiomi had enough time before his death to realize that he just gave his beloved daughter to the man that killed him (assuming anything happens to Aoi, of course). Not to mention being betrayed by the man he trusted the most, and his own Servant.
 
May 6, 2012 4:46 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3648
TheRealBoyd said:
LunarMoon said:
So...does anyone actually feel sorry for Noritaka? There seems to be more sympathy for the guy than there was for Tokiomi. Ditto with Risei, though Risei was actually a pretty nice guy. He was a bit underhanded but he had his reasons, and was, ultimately, honest enough to deliver on the command seals. But I didn't see anyone mourning for Risei or going on about how much they hated Kayneth for killing him. Noritaka, on the other hand, was a sociopath, a few steps above Zouken Matou. His only redeeming quality is that he loved his son.
I think the different feelings about the three are easy to point out. Although Noritaka would've continued his experiments and the same thing would have likely happened again, it is Shirley's fault for taking the medicine. For some people, the implications that Noritaka would've used Shirley as a guinea pig anyway aren't enough: they'd need to see it to condemn him.

For Tokiomi, a lot of people don't care because of what happened to Sakura even if that wasn't Tokiomi's intent, and because they side with Kariya. Evidently the fact that Rin and Aoi love Tokiomi and Tokiomi is genuinely doing what he thinks is best for his family (even if he makes a bunch of stupid mistakes with that) does not even out the negative things a lot of people feel about him. A few people said that they wish Kariya would've killed Tokiomi, I believe. Nevermind how Aoi or Rin would feel about that, that's totally okay and Kariya would be a hero for that. Oh, and of course, it doesn't help that even his own Servant found him boring.

Finally, as for Risei, we don't see him much and don't really have a lot of reasons to be attached to him. In addition, he was cheating by helping Tokiomi (see above for how that's negative points) and, well, look at what happened to Kayneth. I'm sure not many people approve of Kayneth murdering Risei, but when you look at what happened to Kayneth, it's hard to not feel at least a little sorry about him too.

Now, that said, Tokiomi is the one I have the most sympathy for, just because he didn't know how all the stuff he did turned out (would've been nice of Kariya to, you know, TELL HIM), the scene with Rin proves that he loves her (in the novels, after that conversation he has renewed resolve to win the war so he can be the father she's so proud of), and, in the anime, at least, Tokiomi had enough time before his death to realize that he just gave his beloved daughter to the man that killed him (assuming anything happens to Aoi, of course). Not to mention being betrayed by the man he trusted the most, and his own Servant.


people are too quick to judge tokiomi because of the way the first episode is set up
they dont realize that he did whats he thinks is the best for sakura
kariya is just too absorbed in his pride to tell tokiomi the truth of whats happening to sakura
instead he makes that stupid deal with zouken...and messes everything up
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 6, 2012 5:33 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 17239
I am sorry but I cant accept that Tokiomi didnt know how the Matou's train for their magic or how much of a monster Zouken is.Tokiomi definitely didnt know that he would use Sakura just as a breeding ground for the next war
but their families knew each other long ago.I doubt he didnt have any info about him...

As for Kariya he definitely should have tell Tokiomi about everything even if he thought that Tokiomi knew but didnt care.Maybe his hate for both of them in combination with the worms blinded him?Kariya definitely does this to save Sakura but subconsciously he must thought that Aoi would thank him and maybe start a family with him.But still he was the only one that tried to help Sakura ,something that was the job of her parents.
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
May 6, 2012 5:42 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 593
really nice flash back episode.
 
May 6, 2012 5:56 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 70
ssjokg said:
I am sorry but I cant accept that Tokiomi didnt know how the Matou's train for their magic or how much of a monster Zouken is.Tokiomi definitely didnt know that he would use Sakura just as a breeding ground for the next war
but their families knew each other long ago.I doubt he didnt have any info about him...
Well, Zouken thought putting worms in Kariya was a stupid idea that would kill him, so being thrown into the worms like Sakura was probably wasn't the normal way they train an heir. Being a magus is painful for everyone though, not just Matou mages, so it'd possible Tokiomi just thought it'd be a bit more painful for a Matou magus, but better that than nothing.

Also Tokiomi is a horrible judge of character, he very well could have thought Zouken was a fine, upstanding citizen. Leaving Zouken and Kirei aside (though the latter is somewhat excusable), there's also Archer. Everything dickish he did in the Epic of Gilgamesh was because he was bored, and since Tokiomi specifically intended to summon Gilgamesh, he had to have known this. Boring Gilgamesh is the most stupid thing you could do if you were his Master, yet Tokiomi saw no problem in making him sit around and wait for Assassins to do things.

I'm not saying you should change your mind though, your opinion is perfectly valid. Just giving a different perspective. inb4thisthreadgetsderailedagain
 
May 6, 2012 6:03 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 17239
TheRealBoyd said:
ssjokg said:
I am sorry but I cant accept that Tokiomi didnt know how the Matou's train for their magic or how much of a monster Zouken is.Tokiomi definitely didnt know that he would use Sakura just as a breeding ground for the next war
but their families knew each other long ago.I doubt he didnt have any info about him...
Well, Zouken thought putting worms in Kariya was a stupid idea that would kill him, so being thrown into the worms like Sakura was probably wasn't the normal way they train an heir. Being a magus is painful for everyone though, not just Matou mages, so it'd possible Tokiomi just thought it'd be a bit more painful for a Matou magus, but better that than nothing.

Also Tokiomi is a horrible judge of character, he very well could have thought Zouken was a fine, upstanding citizen. Leaving Zouken and Kirei aside (though the latter is somewhat excusable), there's also Archer. Everything dickish he did in the Epic of Gilgamesh was because he was bored, and since Tokiomi specifically intended to summon Gilgamesh, he had to have known this. Boring Gilgamesh is the most stupid thing you could do if you were his Master, yet Tokiomi saw no problem in making him sit around and wait for Assassins to do things.

I'm not saying you should change your mind though, your opinion is perfectly valid. Just giving a different perspective. inb4thisthreadgetsderailedagain


yeah better stop...

does anyone think that the scene where Kiritsugu kills Noritaka has a lot of impact even if it was changed from the LN?Others think that the original was better.
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
May 6, 2012 6:30 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 155
Xayoz said:

Still, there are DAs like Zelretch who don't go around needlessly harming people. I don't see any reason why there couldn't be many others like him either. In fact, considering the probability that a rather high number of DAs exists, most of them are likely not overly ravenous.


No argument, there. Sion seems to be a good person and she’s a Dead Apostle, but the difference is that Sion was forcibly turned into one and spends all of her time obsessing over a cure, despite the fact that it’s supposedly impossible to cure vampirism. For someone, like Noritaka or Nero, to try becoming a Dead Apostle, though, knowing that they’ll have to snack on humans, indicates an entirely different mentality. It doesn’t help that Tsukihime portrays Dead Apostles to be overwhelmingly malelovant.

TheRealBoyd said:
I think the different feelings about the three are easy to point out. Although Noritaka would've continued his experiments and the same thing would have likely happened again, it is Shirley's fault for taking the medicine. For some people, the implications that Noritaka would've used Shirley as a guinea pig anyway aren't enough: they'd need to see it to condemn him.


Thanks. With the exception of Xayoz, none of the novel fans, that I know of, really sympathized with Norikata, so I was scratching my head about that one, wondering if Ufotable may have screwed up in depicting him. As LostHanyou said, the novel seems to portray him as unambiguously villainous. From what you said, though, it just seems to be a difference in character interpretation, rather than any particular error in translation from the novel to the anime. I’m still wondering, then, why there are so many more anime viewers than novel readers who are sympathetic with his plight. Is it simply a difference between the novel’s narration pretty much telling us that he would cause another Arimago Island situation, and the ambiguity inherent in interpreting dialogue?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan!
 
May 6, 2012 7:01 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 70
It probably also helps that, as ssjokg pointed out, his death was different in the novels. In the novels he was just shot in the back and died, while here Noritaka had time to fear and despair that he was being killed by his own son.

As far as I could tell, all the sympathy for Noritaka only comes from the fact that his son killed him; at least one person in this thread would've thought it would be okay for Natalia to kill him.

I do like the change, though, as from the novel's perspective (though if it says otherwise my bad, haven't read it in a while), Kiritsugu's choice to kill his father could have been a highly emotional, heat of the moment thing. Whereas in the anime, it's much more clearly a choice of what Kiritsugu thought needed to be done, showing the birth of the Hero of Justice/Magus Killer.
 
May 6, 2012 7:05 PM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 44
LunarMoon said:
Is it simply a difference between the novel’s narration pretty much telling us that he would cause another Arimago Island situation, and the ambiguity inherent in interpreting dialogue?


It's pretty evident in the novels that he was planning to do this again somewhere else. Kiritsugu asks the same questions that he does in the anime and he gives the same responses. It's just that he appears a bit more "fatherly" in the novels, which for the anime I don't think is necessary. I think that he's just like Tokiomi in a sense where his desire to reach the root has caused him to not pay attention about the world that he's going to leave behind when he accomplishes his goal (which is fitting considering Tokiomi just died last week due to the same thing).

Overall, I think the two main ideas that these flashback episodes are going to portray are "why Kiritsugu became a Magus Killer" and "why Kiritsugu continues to be a Magus Killer". We've seen the first one in this episode, and in so keeping with that idea I really think that this change Kiritsugu's father does work better for the anime.
Modified by InsaneZero, May 6, 2012 7:13 PM
 
May 6, 2012 7:46 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3648
InsaneZero said:
LunarMoon said:
Is it simply a difference between the novel’s narration pretty much telling us that he would cause another Arimago Island situation, and the ambiguity inherent in interpreting dialogue?


It's pretty evident in the novels that he was planning to do this again somewhere else. Kiritsugu asks the same questions that he does in the anime and he gives the same responses. It's just that he appears a bit more "fatherly" in the novels, which for the anime I don't think is necessary. I think that he's just like Tokiomi in a sense where his desire to reach the root has caused him to not pay attention about the world that he's going to leave behind when he accomplishes his goal (which is fitting considering Tokiomi just died last week due to the same thing).

Overall, I think the two main ideas that these flashback episodes are going to portray are "why Kiritsugu became a Magus Killer" and "why Kiritsugu continues to be a Magus Killer". We've seen the first one in this episode, and in so keeping with that idea I really think that this change Kiritsugu's father does work better for the anime.


i disagree
hes not like tokiomi at all
even though noritaka seeks the root tokiomi will not approve of him
he lacks what tokiomi calls the pride of a magus

I am sorry but I cant accept that Tokiomi didnt know how the Matou's train for their magic or how much of a monster Zouken is.Tokiomi definitely didnt know that he would use Sakura just as a breeding ground for the next war


the bug "magecraft" kariya uses is different from the the matou's specialty which is something like spiritual binding and that matches sakura's attributes so of course tokiomi would think that sakura would fit in well with them
plus when zouken was first introduced in HF he didnt seem like a bad guy...and he didnt decide to turn her into
until
anyways
Modified by BloodRequiem, May 6, 2012 7:59 PM
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 6, 2012 8:21 PM
Offline
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4845
BloodRequiem said:
InsaneZero said:
LunarMoon said:
Is it simply a difference between the novel’s narration pretty much telling us that he would cause another Arimago Island situation, and the ambiguity inherent in interpreting dialogue?


It's pretty evident in the novels that he was planning to do this again somewhere else. Kiritsugu asks the same questions that he does in the anime and he gives the same responses. It's just that he appears a bit more "fatherly" in the novels, which for the anime I don't think is necessary. I think that he's just like Tokiomi in a sense where his desire to reach the root has caused him to not pay attention about the world that he's going to leave behind when he accomplishes his goal (which is fitting considering Tokiomi just died last week due to the same thing).

Overall, I think the two main ideas that these flashback episodes are going to portray are "why Kiritsugu became a Magus Killer" and "why Kiritsugu continues to be a Magus Killer". We've seen the first one in this episode, and in so keeping with that idea I really think that this change Kiritsugu's father does work better for the anime.


i disagree
hes not like tokiomi at all
even though noritaka seeks the root tokiomi will not approve of him
he lacks what tokiomi calls the pride of a magus

I am sorry but I cant accept that Tokiomi didnt know how the Matou's train for their magic or how much of a monster Zouken is.Tokiomi definitely didnt know that he would use Sakura just as a breeding ground for the next war


the bug "magecraft" kariya uses is different from the the matou's specialty which is something like spiritual binding and that matches sakura's attributes so of course tokiomi would think that sakura would fit in well with them
plus when zouken was first introduced in HF he didnt seem like a bad guy...and he didnt decide to turn her into
until
anyways
about those last two spoilers:
That and there's many, many, MANY clues that the Matou family held a very misogynistic outlook on both magi and non-magi affairs to the point Shinji himself mentions his "mother" was likely entombed as "food" for the worms in the secret room and snidely mentions he doesn't care about her, not even naming her. It is also mentioned in another part that most Matou females were entombed in that room... that's how much their total hate and disregard of women is.

And people wonder why kariya ran away from that crazy family (beyond the torture and such that Zouken calls "training"). And btw, you are part right and part wrong with the Crest Worm training of Kariya being abnormal. It is actually the norm for Zouken to train the heirs with the worm, and by torturing them and poisoning their food and what not. But that process is taken slower and across the years, Kariya however was a grown man with zero magical training and he was trained in a mere year by basically pumping him full of Crest Worms. That's what was abnormal about it. The common assumption from most data about the Matou family in Zero and Stay Night is that Zouken trains all the heirs the same way.
Modified by Leon-Gun, May 6, 2012 8:28 PM

 
May 6, 2012 8:22 PM
Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 262
Personally I dislike this episode. This story would'be been better expanded as an OVA or special. It destroys the continuity of the story in F/Z.
 
May 6, 2012 8:32 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3648
Leon-Gun said:
BloodRequiem said:
InsaneZero said:
LunarMoon said:
Is it simply a difference between the novel’s narration pretty much telling us that he would cause another Arimago Island situation, and the ambiguity inherent in interpreting dialogue?


It's pretty evident in the novels that he was planning to do this again somewhere else. Kiritsugu asks the same questions that he does in the anime and he gives the same responses. It's just that he appears a bit more "fatherly" in the novels, which for the anime I don't think is necessary. I think that he's just like Tokiomi in a sense where his desire to reach the root has caused him to not pay attention about the world that he's going to leave behind when he accomplishes his goal (which is fitting considering Tokiomi just died last week due to the same thing).

Overall, I think the two main ideas that these flashback episodes are going to portray are "why Kiritsugu became a Magus Killer" and "why Kiritsugu continues to be a Magus Killer". We've seen the first one in this episode, and in so keeping with that idea I really think that this change Kiritsugu's father does work better for the anime.


i disagree
hes not like tokiomi at all
even though noritaka seeks the root tokiomi will not approve of him
he lacks what tokiomi calls the pride of a magus

I am sorry but I cant accept that Tokiomi didnt know how the Matou's train for their magic or how much of a monster Zouken is.Tokiomi definitely didnt know that he would use Sakura just as a breeding ground for the next war


the bug "magecraft" kariya uses is different from the the matou's specialty which is something like spiritual binding and that matches sakura's attributes so of course tokiomi would think that sakura would fit in well with them
plus when zouken was first introduced in HF he didnt seem like a bad guy...and he didnt decide to turn her into
until
anyways
about those last two spoilers:
That and there's many, many, MANY clues that the Matou family held a very misogynistic outlook on both magi and non-magi affairs to the point Shinji himself mentions his "mother" was likely entombed as "food" for the worms in the secret room and snidely mentions he doesn't care about her, not even naming her. It is also mentioned in another part that most Matou females were entombed in that room... that's how much their total hate and disregard of women is.

And people wonder why kariya ran away from that crazy family (beyond the torture and such that Zouken calls "training"). And btw, you are part right and part wrong with the Crest Worm training of Kariya being abnormal. It is actually the norm for Zouken to train the heirs with the worm, and by torturing them and poisoning their food and what not. But that process is taken slower and across the years, Kariya however was a grown man with zero magical training and he was trained in a mere year by basically pumping him full of Crest Worms. That's what was abnormal about it. The common assumption from most data about the Matou family in Zero and Stay Night is that Zouken trains all the heirs the same way.


i prob missed the part about matou's misogynistic views
that shinji conversation wtih Gil i always assumed that shinji is a piece of shit thats why he talked that way
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 7, 2012 12:12 AM
Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 73
Way too good, that was very immersive and the flow of the episode was just right.
 
May 7, 2012 12:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 8091
About time for Kiritsugu's backstory. That was quite a dark past he had, and I was actually bracing for something terrible to happen somewhere in the episode. And, my expectations turned out to be correct. To add more horror to Kiritsugu's traumatic experience, it was the girl he liked, Shirley, who was both one of the main actors and a victim in the disaster.

So, the first person, and the first magus that the future Magus Killer ever killed was his own father, huh. It seems his father had been working on some really risky research right there. Enough for him to be hunted by the Mage's Association. His father's devotion to his research as a magus also reminds me of Tokiomi, who like him, set his priorities and way of thinking as a magus first and as a father after.

Perhaps his father was the admired "hero" from Kiritsugu's past that Saber alluded to, and witnessing his father become one of the causes of such a tragedy (and potential, similar tragedies in the future if he were to continue his research) was what shattered his early ideals.

Also, that setting. That tropical island is definitely in the Philippines. The island's name is Alimango, which is an actual word for "crab" in that country. Shirley was eating a large guava fruit. There is a small church despite its remoteness. Basketball is a popular sport. Chickens are common in the village. The village houses also have a look that is reminiscent of rural houses from that country.
 
May 7, 2012 1:13 AM
Offline
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4845
SayakaMagica said:

Also, that setting. That tropical island is definitely in the Philippines. The island's name is Alimango, which is an actual word for "crab" in that country. Shirley was eating a large guava fruit. There is a small church despite its remoteness. Basketball is a popular sport. Chickens are common in the village. The village houses also have a look that is reminiscent of rural houses from that country.
Why hide this part? Anywaym yeah, it's almost certainly the Philliphines. The Emiya's are, without a doubt, Japanese however, a fact Irisviel already mentioned when she went to "explore" the new Emiya homebase in Fuyuki (and future home of Shirou and gang).

You know, now that I remember (and this has nothing to do with THIS episode), it's amusing how Irisviel had almost the same reactions Ilyasviel had when she explored the house. Guess they couldn't stop himself from making nods to Stay Night.
Modified by Leon-Gun, May 7, 2012 1:19 AM

 
Top
Pages (10) « First ... « 2 3 [4] 5 6 » ... Last »