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Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 5 Discussion


#1
May 5, 2012 8:01 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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OMG!!! Young Kiritsugu!! That means Miyu-Miyu's voice!! FINALLY!! Young Kiritsugu is cute (free from pressure, until that girl and other people...)!! So after what Kiritsugu done in last ep., they are explaining why he did it? And first person he killed was his own father for what he did? The story continues next ep.

No OP... but Kalafina's Manten (満天, OP single coupling song) as ED!!

Edit: Just saw the ED credit, wow!! Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ pair!!
Modified by tsubasalover, May 5, 2012 9:11 AM
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!
 
#2
May 5, 2012 9:04 AM

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Well that was the best episode of the season so far. Kerry is pretty cool at this point in time. Should have expanded this to two episodes at least.
. Feel like I understand Kerry better now.
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#3
May 5, 2012 9:09 AM
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Kerytugu~
Heh...minus all the inner monologue/narrative from the novel, I vastly enjoyed ep 18 (or ep 5..). Kiritsugu, ah...to have to kill your father, and then later rely on the magic crest of the Emiya family to control time. How horrible it must be....
 
#4
May 5, 2012 9:17 AM

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Lol, that guy from the MA. I knew I'd seen him before somewhere.
 
#5
May 5, 2012 9:17 AM

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Cornelius Alba from Kara no Kyoukai appeared. Nice to know he's alive in the fateverse.
 
#6
May 5, 2012 9:23 AM

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Somehow I'm glad I haven't read the novel yet, I think I'm enjoying it more this way.
Good to know about his past, now I like him even more.. (pretty deep stuff he had to go through..)
mhm, usually I'm not that fond of zombies (seriously, I thought that's what they were at first) vampires, but it worked.
..and nice ED :)
 
#7
May 5, 2012 9:27 AM

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I love cameos
Ok™
 
#8
May 5, 2012 9:31 AM

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I was not able to leave much due to the emotional breakdown this episode rather did well despite its compaction since it only had time to do ti in this time line and only in this episode. Shirley in the following,

Was the last of her graceful and wonderful moves. She was a good girl and to see her turn in the spoiler
in what she turned is just TT_TT. The worst part is you do not realize it until the very end where flashbacks occur and you know the plain truth behind it. Shirley never asked for any of this and she fully trusted Kiritsugi’s father. In thee end he betrayed her by making her into a senseless vampire that is perhaps eternally ugly and hungers for blood. TT_TT We will never see such a nice Shirley along with her in the spoiler
a rather careful compilations of some of her great times before being a monster.

Among the horrifications, I must say the following one,

Had the most impact. Clearly you could see the person being bitten and to me that was FREAKY! To say the least.

In keeping short like I mention later on, the horror + the drama + the MOE + trauma inducement was what made this episode EXCELLENT! For a nice scream at satisfaction echoing far. It balanced out all mighty fine and that's what was impressive of the episode not to mention the visuals and sceneries. Might edit later for pic dumb and stuff.
Modified by Yumekichi11, May 6, 2012 2:23 AM

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#9
May 5, 2012 9:36 AM

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Kerry!
Irino Miyu kind of doesn't fit him though.

Lol, was that Cornelius Alba? Oh ufotable.

They made Noritaka a bit cold towards Kiritsugu. He was suppose to hug him when he returned.
And why did they make Kerry stab him and then shoot him? I liked it better in the novels where Noritaka's back was turned and then Kerry started shooting him with the gun that Natalia gave him. Doesn't make sense for Kerry to find a gun, place the magazine and then shoot. Doubt he would know how to manipulate a gun. Oh well.
I'll let this slide since they expanded on the flashback a bit about Shirley's interactions with the Emiyas. Plus there's some Dead Apostles. And they're doing it in two parts. Next week should be heartwrenching as well.
 
May 5, 2012 9:36 AM

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And thus the Magus' Killer was born.

Nice episode. The next one is a continuation from Kiritsugu's past, right?
 
May 5, 2012 9:37 AM

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Finally, Dead Apostles get animated!

Yumekichi11 said:
Negligence said:
Lol, that guy from the MA. I knew I'd seen him before somewhere.
NICE FIND! Euh what is his role though in being featured in this episode. I do know he is part of the same universe as this franchise and I do know he looks kick ass but euh does he have any roles in Fate?


He doesn't, but he has a minor role in Kara no Kyoukai. And rather than Cornelius Alba, I think it's more likely that he's Sancraid Fahn from Fate/Prototype.
 
May 5, 2012 9:46 AM

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Dat entertaining episode.

Great to see little Kiritsugu tbh.



Dark revelation:





Well, it was definitely nice to see some history of our main character this time around. Great episode overall.
Modified by Stark700, May 5, 2012 10:29 AM
 
May 5, 2012 9:47 AM
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Kiritsugu's justification for killing his father seems quite ambiguous to me.
While it must have been horrible for him to see his father displaying such complacency and indifference despite of the amount of distruction and to realize the potential danger his father emits by pursueing his aim along with the fact that he didn't seem to feel relief that his son was alive, Natalia does have a point saying that it was a petty reason to kill one's own father.

Interestingly, Kiritsugu's father appears to bear similarities with Tokiomi Tohsaka as both of them consider searching for the root more important than anything else, with negative outcome for the ones around them.

In both cases it's an error of judgment they made that led to their demise. Just like Tokiomi never fully understood his student Kirei, Kiritsugu's father failed to understand what was truly important to his son, resulting in getting backstabbed by them. His seemingly lack of caring destroyed Kiritsugu's image of his father, whom he believed to be a "good" person, a man who sought to help humanity.
Modified by Eudaimonia, May 5, 2012 11:12 AM
 
May 5, 2012 9:50 AM
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fuckkk that was awesome. fucking vampires. fate/zero FKN OWNS
Dont bother replying to my posts in forums, dont check them afterwards.

 
May 5, 2012 9:53 AM

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Holy crap...that was amazing. I actually think they produced this episode more effectively than it was portrayed in the novel. Far more effectively, in fact, since they ended up dedicating more time to setting things and up and developing the inhabitants of the island. On top of that, there were references to Tsukihime, a cameo from a Kara no Kyoukai character, and an ending song used, specifically, for this particular episode. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how Ufotable adapts the next episode's content.
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Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan!
 
May 5, 2012 10:00 AM

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Could someone say seiyuus of Natalia and Shirley? They sound familiar but can't remember
 
May 5, 2012 10:02 AM

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Well that was a good episode about Kiritsugu's past and for some reason i really love the part where he kills his dad :D
 
May 5, 2012 10:02 AM

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Natalia is voiced by Akeno Watanabe.
 
May 5, 2012 10:04 AM

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Nachtwandler_21 said:
Could someone say seiyuus of Natalia and Shirley? They sound familiar but can't remember


Kerry-Irino, Miyu-Zwei
Shirley-Takagaki, Ayahi-Ein
Natalia-Watanabe, Akeno-Lizzie
Noritaka-Chiba, Isshin-Scythe

A nice contribute to phantom.
 
May 5, 2012 10:08 AM

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Negligence said:
Lol, that guy from the MA. I knew I'd seen him before somewhere.
NICE FIND! Euh what is his role though in being featured in this episode. I do know he is part of the same universe as this franchise and I do know he looks kick ass but euh does he have any roles in Fate?
the_executioner said:
Natalia is voiced by Akeno Watanabe.
ROFL! You know what's amazing is that she voiced Sherry in Index and there was this really happiness that they put her as a voice. There is something quite unique there but it still does ring the bell of WTF with the vampires situation.

I am assuming at best but is the Holy Grail War there to stop all demons, devils and abominations of Satan and the devil? Sounds plausible but I wonder if that is the true intention and the Wish thing a gimmick to lure in players? If so then it's formula that was used before in general. If not then what is the deal with the vampires exactly or Red eyes+ eating flesh?
Modified by Yumekichi11, May 6, 2012 2:19 AM

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May 5, 2012 10:08 AM

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2thuriel said:
Nachtwandler_21 said:
Could someone say seiyuus of Natalia and Shirley? They sound familiar but can't remember


Kerry-Irino, Miyu-Zwei
Shirley-Takagaki, Ayahi-Ein
Natalia-Watanabe, Akeno-Lizzie
Noritaka-Chiba, Isshin-Scythe

A nice contribute to phantom.
Lol. We only needed Miyuki Sawashiro(Cal Devens) to voice a friend or protegeé of Kiritsugu and Aya Hisakawa (Mrs. MCcunnen) to voice a friend of Natalia.
 
May 5, 2012 10:13 AM
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New ED is very gooooooooooood~~~!!!!!
Kiritsugu is very very cute!I like him very much!
Shialay is a good girl,howerver her chpice is wrong.....
Natalia……Natalia!!She's so gooooooooooooooooooood~~~~!
I expect the next !!!
 
May 5, 2012 10:15 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
I am assuming at best but is the Holy Grail War there to stop all demons, devils and abominations of Satan and the devil? Sounds plausible but I wonder if that is the true intention and the Wish thing a gimmick to lure in players? If so then it's formula that was used before in general. If not then what is the deal with the vampires exactly or Red eyes+ eating flesh?
So close but not quite.
Watch the F/Z: Einzbern specials again to understand the true meaning of the HGW.
As for these Dead Apostles, it's Noritaka's research about extending life, like those flowers. Details about the Dead Apostles themselves are in the Tsukihime VN.
Modified by belatkuro, May 5, 2012 10:26 AM
 
May 5, 2012 10:19 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
If not then what is the deal with the vampires exactly or Red eyes+ eating flesh?


Go read Tsukihime. It's the part of the Nasuverse which deals with vampires and certain kinds of demons.
 
May 5, 2012 10:21 AM

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Kiritsugu asks "can we run?" and his father answers "I hid a motorboat on the south coast, just in case of this" -- way to completely miss the point.

And it's great to hear the B-side of To the Beginning used in the anime itself!
 
May 5, 2012 10:24 AM

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@2thuriel

Yeah. Really funny combination.

So it was Ayahi. I though I could never miss her voice cause she is my favourite but was in doubt this time. Dunno why.
 
May 5, 2012 10:32 AM

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Manten!!
 
May 5, 2012 10:41 AM

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belatkuro said:
Yumekichi11 said:
I am assuming at best but is the Holy Grail War there to stop all demons, devils and abominations of Satan and the devil? Sounds plausible but I wonder if that is the true intention and the Wish thing a gimmick to lure in players? If so then it's formula that was used before in general. If not then what is the deal with the vampires exactly or Red eyes+ eating flesh?
So close but not quite.
Watch the F/Z: Einzbern specials again to understand the true meaning of the HGW.
As for these Dead Apostles, it's Noritaka's research. Details about them are in the Tsukihime VN.
Shit, that means I need to consult outside sources part of the same Universe any way of getting a PM that explains in short this? I would appreciate from anyone here. I guess I would have to watch the specials in ones shot. I don't know if I will have time. I would prefer a quick resume please of that friend. Much appreciated too.
the_executioner said:
Yumekichi11 said:
If not then what is the deal with the vampires exactly or Red eyes+ eating flesh?


Go read Tsukihime. It's the part of the Nasuverse which deals with vampires and certain kinds of demons.
I did see the anime and vaguely remember some mumbo jumbo of immortality thing and all but then that means someone is after the Holy Grail to reproduce its powers for that purpose then again assumed at most if something like that does in fact apply, it's plausible that there are many selfish ideals in the ones taking the Grail for Themselves.

Ideally from what Kirei explained last episode, this whole War is the open the way to the Mana Kingdom. The famous Root being the root of the Mana Tree and all of the world. A Tale popular in the RPG Secret of Mana.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_tree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Life
The variations being multi cultured hence the Heroes coming in fact from different areas of that civilization coming to fight only to be sacrifices seems ridiculous to me. But that's the place that is to be guarded by the Heroes and it seems plausible to assume that Access the Grail gives is only a fraction of what that place holds as power.

That's what I think is being kept and closed from the humans and then trying to gain access to it where they are not to gain access is being somewhat portrayed. Kiritsugu is doing a wise choice to seal that place forever from humans. One access and I saw in FF3 USA version the End of the World and reshaping of into a sick shit from whom was the master of such a realm for example.

Point being is that I think the place that the heroes protect is that area and that some elements of that are in fact in this series.

Am I getting somewhere? I mean the elements or parts of them.

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May 5, 2012 10:52 AM
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Great ending song.
 
May 5, 2012 11:00 AM

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mindfk episode.. That resolution to kill your own dad.. is just unimaginable.
 
May 5, 2012 11:13 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
the_executioner said:
Yumekichi11 said:
If not then what is the deal with the vampires exactly or Red eyes+ eating flesh?


Go read Tsukihime. It's the part of the Nasuverse which deals with vampires and certain kinds of demons.
I did see the anime and vaguely remember some mumbo jumbo of immortality thing and all but then that means someone is after the Holy Grail to reproduce its powers for that purpose then again assumed at most if something like that does in fact apply, it's plausible that there are many selfish ideals in the ones taking the Grail for Themselves.

Ideally from what Kirei explained last episode, this whole War is the open the way to the Mana Kingdom. The famous Root being the root of the Mana Tree and all of the world. A Tale popular in the RPG Secret of Mana.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_tree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Life
The variations being multi cultured hence the Heroes coming in fact from different areas of that civilization coming to fight only to be sacrifices seems ridiculous to me. But that's the place that is to be guarded by the Heroes and it seems plausible to assume that Access the Grail gives is only a fraction of what that place holds as power.

Am I getting somewhere? I mean the elements or parts of them.


Yeah, that's basically it. Akasha, the Swirl of the Root and the Origin (explained in further detail in Kara no Kyoukai) is the goal of all magi, and the ultimate goal of the Grail War. The three families used fragments of the Third Magic to summon the souls of Heroic Spirits, then by returning their souls to the Grail, enough energy would be summoned to open the gate to the Root. This was explained in the previous episode. Noritaka Emiya has the same goal -- his primary theories in Magecraft dealt with immortality so that he can live long enough to reach the Root. He's basically a failed Michael Roa Valdamjong (Tsukihime).

Since the Root is basically the database of all knowledge in the world, Magi seek it as the pinnacle of their research. It's basically omnipotence and omniscience in one package, but no one who has reached the Origin has ever returned.

tl;dr, both the Grail War and Noritaka Emiya's research are aimed at getting to the Origin. Both Kara no Kyoukai and the Tsukihime VN have all the information you need to make sense out of all this. There's also the Type-Moon wiki and the Fuyuki wiki.
Modified by deepbluejeer, May 5, 2012 11:18 AM
 
May 5, 2012 11:13 AM

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Oh. My. Fucking. God.

For starters, I KNEW something bad was gonna happen but I never expected it to be so bloody and violent. I knew that Shirley was gonna die, though. Wow. Kiritsugu. I love him so much more now because of this. Who's the lady with the grey hair and blue eyes? I have a feeling she's the one who got him into guns/weaponry.

Anyone know where I can find that insert song by Kalafina? It was just wonderful, especially for the mood. I LOVE it!
 
May 5, 2012 11:16 AM

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itsvero said:
Anyone know where I can find that insert song by Kalafina? It was just wonderful, especially for the mood. I LOVE it!


It's the bonus track included with the To The Beginning single, Manten.
 
May 5, 2012 11:23 AM
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http://animuthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/05/fate-zero-episode-5-episode-18-normally.html
^pics and comments.

Wow Kiritsugu's backstory was a ridiculously good mini-horror movie. reminded me of Resi Evil. Stupid Shirley, taking those pills. I guess message here is "don't do drugs, kids."
 
May 5, 2012 11:26 AM
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belatkuro said:
Doesn't make sense for Kerry to find a gun, place the magazine and then shoot. Doubt he would know how to manipulate a gun. Oh well.
Why? I learned how to use guns at around 12 or 13 - was hunting not long after. Also, a semi-auto pistol is easy to use - by design - shove the magazine in, cock it (if even required), and start shooting. The only tricky part would be the safety, and often that's obvious as well.
 
May 5, 2012 11:27 AM

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Does anyone remember the early-bird cameo from episode 8?


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Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan!
 
May 5, 2012 11:53 AM

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LunarMoon said:
Does anyone remember the early-bird cameo from episode 8?


<img src="http://kochikoch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Natalia-Kaminski-fate-zero.jpg" />
YES! From S1 around the first fight with Kayneth?
the_executioner said:
So I see and this episode obviously shows: FAILED EXPERIMENT! ABANDON ISLAND! Basically right? Well it's more than that but in general speaking.

A little conversation to share
belatkuro said:
HAHAHHA! I was right just that the concept of Hinduism is different however the Tree of Life is essentially what it is. Just replace the three with a Cosmos notion and it's the same thing. A place of tremendous power forbidden to the humans. I was right all along.

So it proves that it's the tree of life except the form is different and concept however taking notions from Hinduism seems mundane when Norse stuff is more ancient. I assume it makes variations better cause Hinduism is not used often in animes as much as other Legends.

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May 5, 2012 12:01 PM

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I got deja vu when young Kiritsugu was watching the village on fire. Quite the episode here.
 
May 5, 2012 12:11 PM

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ahhh Miyu as young Kiritsugu was really nice and cute > v <
wasn't the perfect voice but still cute ^ v ^
but what the hell was with that episode ?! at first I thought this episode would be kinda funny because of Kiritsugu's past and beach and everything but that was one hell of an episode O____O
no Saber ... but this episode will still get 5/5 from me because it was so damn amazing even without saber ; v ;
OH AND THE MANTEN!!! <333 I already loved the song on the single but now the song in this episode was one damn amazing thing * v *
 
May 5, 2012 12:18 PM

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Yumekichi11 said:
So I see and this episode obviously shows: FAILED EXPERIMENT! ABANDON ISLAND! Basically right? Well it's more than that but in general speaking.


Yup, since Magi value secrecy of their practice more than anything else. You can do whatever bullshit you want with your magic as long as you don't get found out.
 
May 5, 2012 12:18 PM

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Cratex said:
belatkuro said:
Doesn't make sense for Kerry to find a gun, place the magazine and then shoot. Doubt he would know how to manipulate a gun. Oh well.
Why? I learned how to use guns at around 12 or 13 - was hunting not long after. Also, a semi-auto pistol is easy to use - by design - shove the magazine in, cock it (if even required), and start shooting. The only tricky part would be the safety, and often that's obvious as well.
Sure it's easy but do you think Kerry would know that? More so in a situation where he plan to kill his father? And do you think he was taught how to when he clearly isn't taught much about magecraft from his father. He's a novice to guns. This part was suppose to be a swift and simple kill where Kerry was just gonna point and shoot the gun that was given to him and not stab him, stop for a moment, find the gun, load it and shoot.
 
May 5, 2012 12:29 PM

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great episode
nice to see the contrast between kerry and majutsushi goroshi
and i facepalmed when my friend said "oh is that kamijou touma?"
only part im not content with...no tainaka sachi songs
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 5, 2012 12:58 PM

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I didn't expect for Kiritsugu's past to be like that at all. Now we know that he never had a normal childhood. And the first person he ever killed was his own father.

I did like the extermination part of the Dead Apostles, more like zombies to me, by the MA (especially that flame mage) and the Church. When Shirley started eating herself, it reminded me so much of Kara no Kyoukai. But it's still Type-Moon after all.






 
May 5, 2012 12:59 PM

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the_executioner said:
Yumekichi11 said:
So I see and this episode obviously shows: FAILED EXPERIMENT! ABANDON ISLAND! Basically right? Well it's more than that but in general speaking.


Yup, since Magi value secrecy of their practice more than anything else. You can do whatever bullshit you want with your magic as long as you don't get found out.
It's more than that. If that Island was in International waters it can experiment anything. Did you not hear of a little rumour? Cloning is done despite being illegal in the world! A Island with a lab in International Waters has been decided as not being able to be prosecuted under any laws that are conventional. Special cases must be raised. So last I heard you can clone your animal for 100 000$ USA currency and stuff like that. Hence why anyone on that Island as long as it's in International Waters belonging to no one then one can do whatever he may want.

I rather not think of insane things but the possibilities are insane.

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May 5, 2012 12:59 PM

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damn this episode is amazing
 
May 5, 2012 1:00 PM

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the_executioner said:
You can do whatever bullshit you want with your magic as long as you don't get found out.


The Association sounds so much more fun than the Church.
 
May 5, 2012 1:02 PM

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For some reason I'm really getting bored with this anime, the last season was far superior by this point.
But still, the visuals and sound don't stop to amaze me.
 
May 5, 2012 1:04 PM

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Hakuromatsu said:
the_executioner said:
You can do whatever bullshit you want with your magic as long as you don't get found out.


The Association sounds so much more fun than the Church.


Indeed! Then you realize that they'll imprison you and "preserve" your research if your research gets too interesting. That's what Natalia said about Noritaka when she said something about "a magus with a Sealing Designation".
 
May 5, 2012 1:12 PM

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Hmm well I have no complaints very well done. Never expected all that crazy stuff to go down. Though Shirley's death wasn't surprising. The cameo by Alba was cool too. Looking forward to more of Kerry's past next week.
 
May 5, 2012 1:15 PM
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belatkuro said:
Sure it's easy but do you think Kerry would know that?

Sure, since I could at a younger age, it's easy for me to assume he might know as well.

belatkuro said:
And do you think he was taught how to when he clearly isn't taught much about magecraft from his father.

If you own guns, you teach your kids about guns so they realize they are not toys and they can kill, so they learn never to 'play' with them. Any kid can pick up a gun and shoot it, even by accident. I get the impression in this world you can't pick up a magic spell, however. Without the basic knowledge, you can't do magic. Huge difference.

belatkuro said:
He's a novice to guns.

Unless I missed something, that is simply an assumption. My assumption is the opposite, and is based on personal experience as a (nearly) life long gun owner and user.

belatkuro said:
This part was suppose to be a swift and simple kill where Kerry was just gonna point and shoot the gun that was given to him and not stab him, stop for a moment, find the gun, load it and shoot.
Ah, I think that's the issue. You're referring to the light novel while I am not. I know nothing of, nor do I care about, the light novel. I'm watching the anime, not expecting a reading of the light novel, and so any references to the light novel are irrelevant to me.
 
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