Are you an evolutionist or a creationist?
| The Evolution vs. Creation debate is often referred to as the "Great Debate." It's the emotion-packed question of "Origins" -- why, how, and where did everything come from? 20th century science has made the compelling discovery that, at some point, the universe began. Both sides of the Great Debate now agree that the universe has not existed eternally. However, this is where the agreement ends. As far as the "why" and "how" of the "origin event," this is where the division and contention begin. There are two basic theories in this Great Debate. The first is the historical default - the Creation Model of Origins. This theory maintains that the intricate design permeating all things implies a Designer. The second theory is the more recent, atheistic explanation - the Evolution Model of Origins. This theory postulates that the intricate design permeating all things is a product of random chance and excessive time. TLTR stuff EDIT: 04/05  |
EditionMay 4, 2012 4:52 AM
| I believe in evolution rather than god, but I do not necessarily believe that in the big bang. The big bang is just a theory, and so is evolution, but I feel that evolution has much more evidence to back it up than the big bang in my opinion. The big bang may have happened, but I am not completely convinced. As to what I believe started it all, I don't believe in anything. There is not enough evidence to support anything, so I don't have much of an opinion on it. |
DarkShardsMay 1, 2012 5:55 AM
 "I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika |
| It certainly is a great debate; it is among the oldest mysteries mankind has ever pondered over, not to mention among the most discussed topics in social interaction, second only perhaps to the meaning of life. And yet, it is one which this forum has never discussed before. To think that an online community of thousands, with perhaps hundreds of active members in about four or five years, not one of them has thought to ask this very question. Even now, when things have slowed down a bit here, we stil probably have fifty or so active members. So many people have been involved here, and yet none of them has ever thought to ask this most fundamental of questions. How ironic, eh? |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
| For the sake of precision, these theories aren't exactly opposites: evolution claim is about evolution, the origin of life still being hypothetical to this hour. And the big bang just goes back 10^-34 second after the universe energy started expanding. Before that, anything could have happened, including a god creation, buddha jiz or whatever. We just don't know. |
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| Both sides need a chance of actually winning to be a debate. This is merely an argument between people willing to think and people willing to believe what they are told without asking difficult questions requiring proof. Science doesn't have all the answers, but at least scientists are willing to look. The religious have turned off their minds, and they neither want proof nor do they wish to ask questions. I'd rather have a debate with a rock. |
| While not technically anime, currently I am a big fan of Hatsune Miku. At least I can go see her in concert. |
| I'm sticking with whatever scientists have determined to be true. I don't rule out the possibility of a god existing (in fact I think the existence of a god might be cool, who knows?), but the Abrahamic god Yahweh and everything documented in The Bible simply don't work with what I've been taught in school about Earth and the universe. And as DarkShards implied, the poll is flawed. Some people believe in a god and also believe in the big bang. A god may have designed the structure and variables that would eventually lead to a universe harboring life. But I'm not going to believe in that god because I see no proof for it to exist. Belief without evidence or experience is foolish. |
| As much as I like the idea of having an almighty god and heaven and such. God to me is like an imaginary friend that people can choose to have, much like the little fairy inside my bottom closet. Her name is Eight btw, and she's been around since my grandparent's time. |
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| Uh, it's not really a scientific debate. Evolution is pretty much it, creation as explained in any creation myth I can think of is already impossible no matter how you look at it and cannot be considered anything but a fairytale. And stuff like intelligent design is just brain rotting crap that are not even worthy of being called pseudoscience. Evolution is simply irrefutable at this point, and anyone that whines about it doesn't even come close to having a scientific proof to disprove it with. Whether or not some god is behind the creation the world, it all surely happened through natural processes like evolution. |
| While the Big Bang theory has some evidence to back it up, I don't rule out the possibility of a god or deity. Well, whatever. I care more about my fantasy and imagination than the truth we'll probably never know for sure. |
| I see dead people. |
| 1. What does evolution have to do with the big bang? 2. Since when is evolution an "atheistic explanation"? 3. What the hell is an evolutionist? Evolution has been accepted by religious people as well you know, rather than deny the facts they claim it's dictated by God. The people who don't believe it are the insane Creationists who take the Bible far too literally, some even going as far to believe the Earth is 6,000 years old when there is tons of factual evidence to prove them wrong. It's not a scientific debate, it's idiots ignoring facts and pretending it's a debate. |
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| What a trainreck of a question. is this when they say half knowledge is worse than ignorance? Big bang and evolution theories aren't the same thing and also none of that excludes the idea of God ether. |
| Yet another reason why this poll is flawed: many creationists, who believe a God or god or gods created humans sapient and created many other animals as they are today, and don't believe in the Horrendous Space Kablooie, still believe in evolution or at least microevolution. And then you have scientists like Einstein that believed in Deus sive Natura, and some even that believe in the Abrahamic God and try to reconcile their personal beliefs with further research. |
| I dunno what's so great about it. Creation has no evidence, Evolution has. And yes, as people mentioned - Evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang. We might never know how it all happened. What's so bad about not knowing? |
| LUL |
| Evolution and the big bang are two completely unrelated theories *faceplam* Pick up a damn science book some time. Oh and just in case youre wondering the old version of the big bang was thrown out by the person who created it. The current version is called "infinite inflation". Basically our universe evolved from other older universes that expanded then collapsed in on themselves and created a new universe from the remains of the old possibly building in complexity over time. Not only that but there are other alternative theories of the start of the universe and not a single one of them needs any god in the equation. WTF is with this "atheistic explanation" ? The person who created the starts of the theory of the big bang was a catholic priest. |
AnnoKano said: And yet, it is one which this forum has never discussed before. Oh you.... |
Baman said: Uh, it's not really a scientific debate. Evolution is pretty much it, creation as explained in any creation myth I can think of is already impossible no matter how you look at it and cannot be considered anything but a fairytale. And stuff like intelligent design is just brain rotting crap that are not even worthy of being called pseudoscience. Evolution is simply irrefutable at this point, and anyone that whines about it doesn't even come close to having a scientific proof to disprove it with. Whether or not some god is behind the creation the world, it all surely happened through natural processes like evolution. ^ This. I mean, we've observed it happening. There is no debate. The theory of evolution is as about controversial as the theory of gravity (which is also "just a theory"). |
Edition said: Evolutionists reason, we cannot see the Creator, we cannot hear the Creator, and we cannot touch, taste or smell the Creator. Therefore, we are unable to test for the Creator with any form of scientific equipment developed thus far. It's a retarded argument for a retarded question. Edition said: Creationists retort, we cannot see, hear, touch, taste, or smell the human mind.We cannot test for the human mind with any form of scientific equipment developed thus far. When we run an electroencephalogram, we are measuring salt flow and electrical activity within the human brain. We cannot so much as even locate the human mind. I wouldn't write 'mind' but rather 'consciousness.' This is a whole other argument. This is a problem of neuroscience, not natural selection, evolution, etc... which are ecological theories that make sense and 'seem natural.' Edition said: Yet we watch as human carcasses run about, making order of disorder, conscious decisions according to subconscious criteria. We see the design and complexity that result from the operation of the brain through the invisible realm known as the mind. Thus, we know with certainty that the human mind exists. I would make it categorical that we do NOT argue for existence of 'existence' itself, nature, consciousness, oneself, etc... Edition said: Therefore, it's absolutely logical for Creationists to postulate the existence of a Creator based upon the same "evidence." The design we see all around us came from one, grand concept, and such a concept can only come from a complex Mind. Furthermore, the mathematical and physical laws inherent in all things (including, most dramatically, the Laws of Thermodynamics and the Law of Cause and Effect) effectively validate this evidentiary claim. And therefore, your argument is subjectively flawed and has no evidence to speak of. There's also no 'mathematical law' inherent. |
 「みんながいるからだ。」 － 棗鈴 |
AbstractCalamity said: ^ This. I mean, we've observed it happening. There is no debate. The theory of evolution is as about controversial as the theory of gravity (which is also "just a theory"). I actually like to imagine tiny imps pulling down things. |
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| Yeah evolution isn't so much a debate as its more a intervention for people in denial about it. Although I do agree that evolution in a few stages in some species seems unusually rushed but im no expert and I dont make assumptions based on that but its certainly not enough to deny it. Should i mention that young earth creationism has a counterpart known as Theistic-evolution? People who believe this think a god created and guided the big bang and evolution. Theistic evolution is the alternative of Naturalistic Evolution which is the normal evolution we all know about. Please note theistic-evolution isnt scientific its just an attempt to merge science with religion via god of the gaps. |
| They don't exactly contradict each other. Evolution cannot explain the initial burst of creation, nor can creation explain the accumulation of changes in different species. |
Tachii said: Thats because the theory of evolution has nothing about the first start of life thats a seporate subject. They already just about figured it out. It has to do with a freakk incident of some type of acid and electricity ... i kinda forgot the detailsThey don't exactly contradict each other. Evolution cannot explain the initial burst of creation, nor can creation explain the accumulation of changes in different species. |
traed said: Tachii said: Thats because the theory of evolution has nothing about the first start of life thats a seporate subject. They already just about figured it out. It has to do with a freakk incident of some type of acid and electricity ... i kinda forgot the detailsThey don't exactly contradict each other. Evolution cannot explain the initial burst of creation, nor can creation explain the accumulation of changes in different species. Actually, no, we don't really know for sure the origin of life. We do have a few theories. One of the few requirements, probably, is that DNA/RNA came into the picture, somehow, through molecular formation. The elements come from stellar nucleosynthesis. And the stuff before that came from the Big Bang. (more correctly it determined the proton to helium ratio, which is still very close to the ratio in space today) |
「みんながいるからだ。」 － 棗鈴 |
| I didnt say we know for sure there has been studies and tests and they are pretty damn close. Would post a link but cant remember where i read about it . |
traed said: You're just reiterating what I said. That don't contradict because they focus on different things (except creationism tend to be all-encompassing and that's where the conflict start). The only other conflict is one is grounded in science and the other in faith (inb4 science is a faith).Tachii said: Thats because the theory of evolution has nothing about the first start of life thats a seporate subject. They already just about figured it out. It has to do with a freakk incident of some type of acid and electricity ... i kinda forgot the detailsThey don't exactly contradict each other. Evolution cannot explain the initial burst of creation, nor can creation explain the accumulation of changes in different species. |
AbstractCalamity said: Baman said: Uh, it's not really a scientific debate. Evolution is pretty much it, creation as explained in any creation myth I can think of is already impossible no matter how you look at it and cannot be considered anything but a fairytale. And stuff like intelligent design is just brain rotting crap that are not even worthy of being called pseudoscience. Evolution is simply irrefutable at this point, and anyone that whines about it doesn't even come close to having a scientific proof to disprove it with. Whether or not some god is behind the creation the world, it all surely happened through natural processes like evolution. ^ This. I mean, we've observed it happening. There is no debate. The theory of evolution is as about controversial as the theory of gravity (which is also "just a theory"). Tachii said: They don't exactly contradict each other. Evolution cannot explain the initial burst of creation, nor can creation explain the accumulation of changes in different species. I agree with these. Whose to say that God didn't create evolution/big bang, etc? They don't necessarily harm each other as theories. As an archaeologist though, I think that denying evolution is pretty dumb considering the evidence. That's as bad as the Victorians who would say 'God put dinosaurs in the ground to give us something to do...' *facepalm* For all we know we could be run by aliens :p I personally like the idea of a God and believe the scientific proof. |
| If you're going to put up a show of torture...I'm sorry, but I'd rather leave the stage. – Furude Rika, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni |
| (-□-;) This topic should never be discussed online because it can create hate like a grenade, (*⌒▽⌒*) when the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend. |
| ---------------------------------------------------------------- peace | paz | pace | paix fred| friede | friður | vrede мир | mir | mír | miers | pokój keamanan | kedamaian | kapayapaan | ความสงบ امن | صلح | سلام | barış अमन | 和平 | 平和 | 평화 rauha | béke | taika |
| Strange how whenever this topic is discussed people only speak of one god of one religion and one creationism story when we have many and people only speak of the big bang when we have other theories as well that go into even more detail and we have all kinds of combinations of these things. |
traed said: Strange how whenever this topic is discussed people only speak of one god of one religion and one creationism story when we have many and people only speak of the big bang when we have other theories as well that go into even more detail and we have all kinds of combinations of these things. It's true. Actually, I'm pretty open to all religions. I think its very interesting. Especially when you think back to the Romans or Greeks or Egyptians that were adamant there were multiple gods and would kill for them and now... not much has changed. I also agree that this is a topic that should not be discussed as Neoblackguard said, with this sort of thing people are very set on their beliefs and no amount of talk with change their minds :) |
| If you're going to put up a show of torture...I'm sorry, but I'd rather leave the stage. – Furude Rika, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni |
| Actually the greek story of Chaos sounds pretty close to the big bang in a way. It said everything came from chaos basically. |
| There is no debate. You're a grade-A moron if you believe in Creationism and deserve to be segregated into a separate part of this world — perhaps we can just throw these idiots in the desert? Heh, kidding aside, there really is no debate, so no, this is not known as "The Great Debate." I advise anyone interested in Creationism to check this out (It's a photo gallery) — http://imgur.com/a/GdENP#0 That is creationism. DarkShards said: I believe in evolution rather than god, but I do not necessarily believe that in the big bang. The big bang is just a theory, and so is evolution, but I feel that evolution has much more evidence to back it up than the big bang in my opinion. The big bang may have happened, but I am not completely convinced. As to what I believe started it all, I don't believe in anything. There is not enough evidence to support anything, so I don't have much of an opinion on it. God fucking dammit. Scientific theory is not a hypothesis... -sigh- Evidence for the big bang is astronomical (pun intended). Do some research on this stuff before making such rash accusations. |
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| I literally cried when i found out almost half of the US doesnt believe in evolution according to some study because I thought it was only like a small minority but guess not. |
traed said: I literally cried when i found out almost half of the US doesnt believe in evolution according to some study because I thought it was only like a small minority but guess not. More than half |
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lucjan said: Definitely not as astronomical as evolution though. If I recall even some physicists were wary of the big bang theory.God fucking dammit. Scientific theory is not a hypothesis... -sigh- Evidence for the big bang is astronomical (pun intended). Do some research on this stuff before making such rash accusations. |
lucjan said: I wanna move to iceland now. They have elves there instead of creationism. Sounds much more fun.traed said: I literally cried when i found out almost half of the US doesnt believe in evolution according to some study because I thought it was only like a small minority but guess not. More than half That study you have there might be a little out of date for all i know. One i saw had more options than evolution vs creationism it had theistic-evolution as the third choice. The beleiv in evolution had been increasing for a few years. |
lucjan said: traed said: I literally cried when i found out almost half of the US doesnt believe in evolution according to some study because I thought it was only like a small minority but guess not. More than half Those statistics make me die a little inside. |
| If you're going to put up a show of torture...I'm sorry, but I'd rather leave the stage. – Furude Rika, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni |
Tachii said: lucjan said: Definitely not as astronomical as evolution though. If I recall even some physicists were wary of the big bang theory.God fucking dammit. Scientific theory is not a hypothesis... -sigh- Evidence for the big bang is astronomical (pun intended). Do some research on this stuff before making such rash accusations. Some? That's reassuring "^__^ I'd like to know the names. I'm interested in what they have to say. traed said: That study you have there might be a little out of date for all i know. One i saw had more options than evolution vs creationism it had theistic-evolution as the third choice. The beleiv in evolution had been increasing for a few years. Most likely... Well, Atheism — which does, unfortunately, correlate with Evolution — has been steadily increasing with the youth over the years. Surprised Estonia isn't on there, though. They're dubbed the most Atheist nation on Earth. |
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| I knew you were going to ask for it. And frankly I don't remember. |
SergioSource said: Right now there is more evidence to support the Big Bang, but not fully prove it. So I just don't care, it won't affect me in any way. We can't prove John Locke had a dick, but we pretty much know he did because of the massive amount of evidence supporting such. The Big Bang Theory is subject to change, yes. Any scientific theory is subject to change. No theory is grounded in absolute, minute detail. There are always extenuating circumstances that can further the theory, or at the very least, split it. But scientific theories aren't hypothesis'. Although they're subject to change, the core in which what's stated to have happened is absolute. We know the Big Bang happened, but how it happened and what resulted from it is still up for debate. |
lucjanMay 1, 2012 8:37 AM
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| Devils Proof? |
| If you're going to put up a show of torture...I'm sorry, but I'd rather leave the stage. – Furude Rika, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni |
| Problem with Big Bang is how it's so much more difficult to comprehend than evolution. You can't expect a layman to understand big bang without diving into relativity or something. But evolution is pretty simple to understand and it has a buttload of evidence supporting it. So when you say "go do some research" it's more like "go take a whole year in physics" or something to understand the big bang theory. Of course when I say this I'm not denying the credibility of the established theory. Just that I understand why people have more trouble ensuing credibility to this than something like evolution. |
| Jainists believe in an eternal universe that always was and always will be and a god did not make it. |
| I'm pretty sure it has been discussed before, probably not exactly in this form, but on every serious thread remotely related to origins has to settle between creationists and evolutionists; Really as someone else said, creationism has no valid proof, and given the solid counter-argument they just deny it and put their whole validity on belief, hardly any debate there. So let's simplify here, it's the same debate over and over, over subjectivity and objectivity where one can always rest on subjectivity, and there really isn't anything wrong with that, but it's getting more and more boring and tiring knowing the outcome of every debate. Stupid people do not create anything and do not help imagine a new future they are stuck in the same rut. I am sick of this debate nothing is gonna change anything, they will just have to die out. Although as someone else said, there still might be a higher entity that could be defined as a god, for that matter if the big bang was true, it could be regarded as a god if it was not influenced. |
| Closer. |
lucjan said: There is no debate. You're a grade-A moron if you believe in Creationism and deserve to be segregated into a separate part of this world — perhaps we can just throw these idiots in the desert? Heh, kidding aside, there really is no debate, so no, this is not known as "The Great Debate." I advise anyone interested in Creationism to check this out (It's a photo gallery) — http://imgur.com/a/GdENP#0 That is creationism. DarkShards said: I believe in evolution rather than god, but I do not necessarily believe that in the big bang. The big bang is just a theory, and so is evolution, but I feel that evolution has much more evidence to back it up than the big bang in my opinion. The big bang may have happened, but I am not completely convinced. As to what I believe started it all, I don't believe in anything. There is not enough evidence to support anything, so I don't have much of an opinion on it. God fucking dammit. Scientific theory is not a hypothesis... -sigh- Evidence for the big bang is astronomical (pun intended). Do some research on this stuff before making such rash accusations. I am the person who does my research thank you very much ^_^. I am not making any accusations and I find it very offensive that you say my beliefs are rash accusations. I never said the big bang theory was wrong, all I said was that it was still subject to question and it wasn't a sure thing which is 100% correct unless you can prove to me otherwise. Evolution however I come to accept because of all the evidence presented. From what I have researched and read, evolution seems like a very accurate theory and that is why I adopt it into my beliefs. I am not saying that the big bang theory did not happen, I just happened to say that I can't know for sure. I am no physics major or know a lot about physics for the matter which my contribute to my indifference in the theory. |
"I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika |
SergioSource said: Right now there is more evidence to support the Big Bang, but not fully prove it. So I just don't care, it won't affect me in any way. There is nothing that fully proves any scientific theory. Tachii said: Problem with Big Bang is how it's so much more difficult to comprehend than evolution. You can't expect a layman to understand big bang without diving into relativity or something. But evolution is pretty simple to understand and it has a buttload of evidence supporting it. So when you say "go do some research" it's more like "go take a whole year in physics" or something to understand the big bang theory. Of course when I say this I'm not denying the credibility of the established theory. Just that I understand why people have more trouble ensuing credibility to this than something like evolution. Why's the big bang difficult to comprehend? Furthermore no relativity is required, unless you want 'proof' of it. But the idea of cosmic birth requires no relativity. I should say that spatial expansion itself is not something to 'understand,' though. EDIT: DarkShards said: I am the person who does my research thank you very much ^_^. I am not making any accusations and I find it very offensive that you say my beliefs are rash accusations. I never said the big bang theory was wrong, all I said was that it was still subject to question and it wasn't a sure thing which is 100% correct unless you can prove to me otherwise. Evolution however I come to accept because of all the evidence presented. From what I have researched and read, evolution seems like a very accurate theory and that is why I adopt it into my beliefs. I am not saying that the big bang theory did not happen, I just happened to say that I can't know for sure. I am no physics major or know a lot about physics for the matter which my contribute to my indifference in the theory. No single theory is not subject to question. |
「みんながいるからだ。」 － 棗鈴 |
| We've had this thread just about a year ago... I strongly support the idea that everything was brought to Earth by aliens. And whoever created aliens and how did they evolve is a different story. But if I were to choose between the two, I'd pick creationism over evolution hands down, despite not being religious at all. I just don't find the idea of evolution appealing, if you catch my drift. I don't really care about scientific proof (not that evolution theory has much), there was a time when science was called magic after all. |
seishi-sama said: We've had this thread just about a year ago... I strongly support the idea that everything was brought to Earth by aliens. And whoever created aliens and how did they evolve is a different story. But if I were to choose between the two, I'd pick creationism over evolution hands down, despite not being religious at all. I just don't find the idea of evolution appealing, if you catch my drift. I don't really care about scientific proof (not that evolution theory has much), there was a time when science was called magic after all. ... Actually the Evolution Theory has a lot of evidence behind it... A hell of a lot. |
| If you're going to put up a show of torture...I'm sorry, but I'd rather leave the stage. – Furude Rika, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni |
seishi-sama said: In other words youre scared of being an animal like everything else here and youre related to the common ancestor of apes so you ignore it all together?We've had this thread just about a year ago... I strongly support the idea that everything was brought to Earth by aliens. And whoever created aliens and how did they evolve is a different story. But if I were to choose between the two, I'd pick creationism over evolution hands down, despite not being religious at all. I just don't find the idea of evolution appealing, if you catch my drift. I don't really care about scientific proof (not that evolution theory has much), there was a time when science was called magic after all. |
| I don't care what peoples say, evolution never happened between human and animals and probably never happened between animals.Now i can't prove God is real to anyone here. But i beleive a creator created the living creatures, makes sense to me, at least. If God is eternal he is also almighty. Think about it, can something randomly pop out of nothingness without being eternal. If there was a beginning to the universe, there must be a will behind it. Everything humans does is directed by their thoughts. I beleive each and everyone of us have a spirit which animates the body and that is the real us. |
AkdjduwushshwMay 1, 2012 8:56 AM
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