| Alright guys this is a serious question, Since I started becoming more active here recently I've noticed there is a lot of hype over the Fate franchise. Back in 2006 or 2007 was when I first learned about Stay Night, It looked like the coolest thing since sliced bread so I decided to watch it.. It was rather boring to me even after five episodes so I decided to start watching it again because its been so long, maybe my prospective has changed over the last few years.. but it was exactly as I remembered.. so why is everyone so hyped over it? Is there something I'm missing, like a series before stay night, or a movie perhaps? I know of these three series: Fate/Prototype Fate/stay night Fate/Zero I also remember reading to skip Prototype and Stay Night and just watch Zero, but.. would I be missing out or are they completely different stories with the same Protagonists? I would really hate to miss out on a good anime just because I am keep out of the loop, ya know? Thanks for letting me know in advanced, I know people are most likely going to start a flame war over this but I would really like to know ^_^; |
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| No, they're not the same stories. Fate/stay night is the sequel to Fate/Zero, but it doesn't really matter in which order you watch them. F/Z is considered better in every regard anyway so just watch that if you are having trouble with F/S N. |
GuZApr 19, 2012 9:04 AM
| FSN was pretty meh I'd say, but I keep hearing Zero is a lot better. And without Shiro as the protagonist, there's probably less of those stupid determinator moments. If you want to enjoy it all properly, it's probably best to play the game instead of watching FSN though. |
GuZ said: No, they're not the same stories. Fate/stay night is the sequel to Fate/Zero, but it doesn't really matter in which order you watch them. F/Z is considered better in every regard anyway so just watch that if you are having trouble with F/S N. So if Fate/Zero is the first season why did Fate/stay night come out first? I'm so confused with all of this. |
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| F/Z is a prequel and can be enjoyed without watching the others first but there will be some things you will be left in the dark with that everyone who has watched/read stay/night will understand. The reason it was animated second is similar to the reason Crisis Core came out after FF7. (If you're familiar with them). Although the Visual Novel of Fate/Stay Night and Light Novel of Zero came out around the same time. Fate Stay/Night Anime adaption was pretty low-quality compared to what it could have been. The visual novel is where all the hype originated from and I would say it was well deserved. Fate/Zero anime adaption is top tier and has a HUGE budget so it's really flashy and true to the "Fate" feeling. Also, another bonus is the characters are way more mature/darker in Zero. They're mostly all adults with far better battle of wits and tactics as opposed to Stay/Nights Teenagers. Not to mention, Kiritsugu >>>>> Shirou by a mile. |
Kayaba-Apr 19, 2012 9:12 AM
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| Fate/zero is a lot better executed than Fate/stay night. I watched like 3 episodes of Fate/stay night and it just seemed really clichéd and boring to me with shallow characters and a shounen-like story progression about a 14 year old who's life is about to change drastically (where have I heard that fucking story before ><). Fate/zero just has great characters and it seems like the entire story progression is a lot more thought out in general. I think they must've gotten new writers or just followed the game more closely because I just don't feel like ever watching Fate/stay night again after seeing how good Fate/zero is. It's just cool to see how the plot unravels and it made me think of shows like Death Note and Code Geass with all the tactics and dialogues that just help shape characters so much. On top of that the action, voice acting and animation are fantastic. And with so many characters there's bound to be one you like. It's also cool how each class is a famous figure from History and how those histories intertwine with each other Another reason why I think it is so populair lately is because it has proven it's worth in season 1 so season 2 gets a lot more attention than new anime that only have a few episodes out atm ( and you can't really judge an anime after 2 episodes). |
UnrealPie said: Alright guys this is a serious question, Since I started becoming more active here recently I've noticed there is a lot of hype over the Fate franchise. Back in 2006 or 2007 was when I first learned about Stay Night, It looked like the coolest thing since sliced bread so I decided to watch it.. It was rather boring to me even after five episodes so I decided to start watching it again because its been so long, maybe my prospective has changed over the last few years.. but it was exactly as I remembered.. so why is everyone so hyped over it? Is there something I'm missing, like a series before stay night, or a movie perhaps? I know of these three series: Fate/Prototype Fate/stay night Fate/Zero I also remember reading to skip Prototype and Stay Night and just watch Zero, but.. would I be missing out or are they completely different stories with the same Protagonists? I would really hate to miss out on a good anime just because I am keep out of the loop, ya know? Thanks for letting me know in advanced, I know people are most likely going to start a flame war over this but I would really like to know ^_^; problem is...you watched the anime which basically only adapted 1/3 of the whole original source and chose the boringest route out of all of them not to mention the studio basically shat all over it go play the visual novels for FSN zero is adapted by a studio that has been working with type moon for a long time and it is also more mature (no kitchen scenes) fate zero is basically a wrap up to confirm of all the fans' speculations that are hinted at in fate stay night and reveals a bit more about the relationship between the masters of the 4th war and to the guy above shirou is 18 not 14 highschool system works differently in japan than the west |
BloodRequiemApr 19, 2012 10:14 AM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Fate/Zero is just overrated IMO. It plays out like a boring shounen. The pacing is slow, and it's filled with nothing but mostly philosophical/idealistic dialogue. The show hides its weak plot execution using this. Pretty much all of the first season consists of the characters sitting/standing around asking each other what their wish is if they get the grail, or what their philosophical/ideals or what their purpose in life is. Don't even get me started on the fights. The fights are so cliche. When the 'heroes' finally fight, they only fight for like 15-20 seconds, then they start talking about cliche things like honor and how they enjoy fighting each other. For an anime with such a big budget, the fight scenes are so poorly choreographed. The only 'decent' fight was berserker vs archer, which ironically had little to no cliche dialogue. Funny how that works. After the first season, there's been such little progression in the so called 'war'. Tactics? The show has little to none, or is progressed so slowly it barely feels like tactics. For a show about a war between 7 master mages and heroes, it's pretty damn boring. Nobody has died or been eliminated ( The two that were supposed to be eliminated are back in it in some shape or form ). There's no chess-like tactics people speak of. It's just people sitting/standing around sipping wine talking about their views on life/world. And for a show with 7 supposed master mages, the magic in it is weak. Just incredibly overrated, with its only saving grace being its animation quality and Saber. |
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| Wait a second, you're complaining about "cliche things like honor" yet you say Saber is a selling point for the show? That's like saying you hate shonen but that DBZ is your favorite anime. Anyway, the hype for Fate in general is up because stuff about it is coming out recently. There's this anime, there was Carnival Phantasm last year with Prototype, the re-elease of the "clean" version of the F/SN visual novel in Japan, and a PSP game that was localized last year, and another that's being made, and even the magical girl Ilya spinoff is getting an anime now. It's only natural that people would hype once there's something to hype about. As far as just this anime goes, people like the show because it's well animated, the characters are interesting, the dialogue is well written for the most part, and the whole "summon ancient heroes to fight for the Holy Grail" thing. Anybody that's watched/read Fate/Stay Night also gets to see the backstory of it since this is a prequel, and get to see more of a few of their favorite characters from before. Zero's start is slow, but from the 2nd season onwards things'll move pretty fast. People that complain that it's bad because nobody dies'll shut up long before it's over. |
Yvese said: Fate/Zero is just overrated IMO. It plays out like a boring shounen. The pacing is slow, and it's filled with nothing but mostly philosophical/idealistic dialogue. The show hides its weak plot execution using this. Pretty much all of the first season consists of the characters sitting/standing around asking each other what their wish is if they get the grail, or what their philosophical/ideals or what their purpose in life is. Don't even get me started on the fights. The fights are so cliche. When the 'heroes' finally fight, they only fight for like 15-20 seconds, then they start talking about cliche things like honor and how they enjoy fighting each other. For an anime with such a big budget, the fight scenes are so poorly choreographed. The only 'decent' fight was berserker vs archer, which ironically had little to no cliche dialogue. Funny how that works. After the first season, there's been such little progression in the so called 'war'. Tactics? The show has little to none, or is progressed so slowly it barely feels like tactics. For a show about a war between 7 master mages and heroes, it's pretty damn boring. Nobody has died or been eliminated ( The two that were supposed to be eliminated are back in it in some shape or form ). There's no chess-like tactics people speak of. It's just people sitting/standing around sipping wine talking about their views on life/world. And for a show with 7 supposed master mages, the magic in it is weak. Just incredibly overrated, with its only saving grace being its animation quality and Saber. the problem is that you think this is a shounen fighting tournament when it really isnt the story focuses more on the relationships between characters and the irony of their fates |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
TheRealBoyd said: Could you explain this, I don't get it. Latter sentence is contradiction but I see no problems on complaining about cliches and at the same time saying one of the main characters is selling point for the show. Are you perhaps saying that Saber is cliche as fuck and cliche things can't be selling points?@Yvese Wait a second, you're complaining about "cliche things like honor" yet you say Saber is a selling point for the show? That's like saying you hate shonen but that DBZ is your favorite anime. |
| I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls. |
Karhu said: TheRealBoyd said: Could you explain this, I don't get it. Latter sentence is contradiction but I see no problems on complaining about cliches and at the same time saying one of the main characters is selling point for the show. Are you perhaps saying that Saber is cliche as fuck and cliche things can't be selling points?@Yvese Wait a second, you're complaining about "cliche things like honor" yet you say Saber is a selling point for the show? That's like saying you hate shonen but that DBZ is your favorite anime. what he meant was that she hates all the crap talk about honour yet likes saber who is one of the worst offenders |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: I must have missed the point where Yvese said they like Saber. I'm not also thinking like that about Saber so I can't really connect but whatever.Karhu said: TheRealBoyd said: Could you explain this, I don't get it. Latter sentence is contradiction but I see no problems on complaining about cliches and at the same time saying one of the main characters is selling point for the show. Are you perhaps saying that Saber is cliche as fuck and cliche things can't be selling points?@Yvese Wait a second, you're complaining about "cliche things like honor" yet you say Saber is a selling point for the show? That's like saying you hate shonen but that DBZ is your favorite anime. what he meant was that she hates all the crap talk about honour yet likes saber who is one of the worst offenders |
| I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls. |
TheRealBoyd said: Wait a second, you're complaining about "cliche things like honor" yet you say Saber is a selling point for the show? That's like saying you hate shonen but that DBZ is your favorite anime. Anyway, the hype for Fate in general is up because stuff about it is coming out recently. There's this anime, there was Carnival Phantasm last year with Prototype, the re-elease of the "clean" version of the F/SN visual novel in Japan, and a PSP game that was localized last year, and another that's being made, and even the magical girl Ilya spinoff is getting an anime now. It's only natural that people would hype once there's something to hype about. As far as just this anime goes, people like the show because it's well animated, the characters are interesting, the dialogue is well written for the most part, and the whole "summon ancient heroes to fight for the Holy Grail" thing. Anybody that's watched/read Fate/Stay Night also gets to see the backstory of it since this is a prequel, and get to see more of a few of their favorite characters from before. Zero's start is slow, but from the 2nd season onwards things'll move pretty fast. People that complain that it's bad because nobody dies'll shut up long before it's over. Man i love you i never knew Fate/Extra was localized for the PSP now it makes me want to go replace my broken psp or get a ps vita since i think when i searched up the game after reading about it from your post i think someone said you can download it for ps vita, is that true? Also i completely missed the news for the magical girl Ilya manga getting animated i will watch that since the manga is fun, also Ilya is one of my favourite characters and i want to see her in a happier setting. |
| Othinus Touma Pairing http://hestia.dance/ |
BloodRequiem said: Nearly every character is an offender. True, Saber is one of the worst offenders since she's the king of knights. That doesn't mean I don't like her. Karhu said: TheRealBoyd said: Could you explain this, I don't get it. Latter sentence is contradiction but I see no problems on complaining about cliches and at the same time saying one of the main characters is selling point for the show. Are you perhaps saying that Saber is cliche as fuck and cliche things can't be selling points?@Yvese Wait a second, you're complaining about "cliche things like honor" yet you say Saber is a selling point for the show? That's like saying you hate shonen but that DBZ is your favorite anime. what he meant was that she hates all the crap talk about honour yet likes saber who is one of the worst offenders BloodRequiem said: No, I don't think this is a shounen fighting tournament. However, I do think it's overrated. It gets far too much praise for being incredibly boring and cliche. Yvese said: Fate/Zero is just overrated IMO. It plays out like a boring shounen. The pacing is slow, and it's filled with nothing but mostly philosophical/idealistic dialogue. The show hides its weak plot execution using this. Pretty much all of the first season consists of the characters sitting/standing around asking each other what their wish is if they get the grail, or what their philosophical/ideals or what their purpose in life is. Don't even get me started on the fights. The fights are so cliche. When the 'heroes' finally fight, they only fight for like 15-20 seconds, then they start talking about cliche things like honor and how they enjoy fighting each other. For an anime with such a big budget, the fight scenes are so poorly choreographed. The only 'decent' fight was berserker vs archer, which ironically had little to no cliche dialogue. Funny how that works. After the first season, there's been such little progression in the so called 'war'. Tactics? The show has little to none, or is progressed so slowly it barely feels like tactics. For a show about a war between 7 master mages and heroes, it's pretty damn boring. Nobody has died or been eliminated ( The two that were supposed to be eliminated are back in it in some shape or form ). There's no chess-like tactics people speak of. It's just people sitting/standing around sipping wine talking about their views on life/world. And for a show with 7 supposed master mages, the magic in it is weak. Just incredibly overrated, with its only saving grace being its animation quality and Saber. the problem is that you think this is a shounen fighting tournament when it really isnt the story focuses more on the relationships between characters and the irony of their fates - Arrogant strong guy? ( Archer ) Check - Fights that last 15-20 seconds before the opponents start saying cliche lines and end up not killing each other? Check - Characters that do nothing but sip wine and talk boring philosophical/idealistic nonsense? Check - Guys in tournament/war that doesn't give a damn about the prize and in it to save someone or just in it for fun? ( Kariya/Ryuunosuke ) Check For a show that's supposed to involve 7 magi, there's only been two that are actual mages. TWO. Kayneth and Tokiomi. The rest are either terrible at magic, no experience, or just plain don't use magic. The characters in the anime do far too much talking when they should be doing actual planning and tactics to get hold of something as powerful as the grail that grants any wish. Instead, they like to just sip wine and talk about what their wish is and other boring things like philosophy and ideals. No idea why people say this series is comparable to death note/code geass in terms of tactics. Far from it. Instead of doing actual fighting and eliminating the other masters, the characters like to circle jerk and be friends with each other. Considering what's at stake, you'd think they'd have more of a sense of urgency. |
YveseApr 19, 2012 11:31 AM
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Yvese Why are you expecting anime to be 100% logic? Not even your favorite anime, Code Geass, is. |
Tiago97 said: I don't. Yvese Why are you expecting anime to be 100% logic? Not even your favorite anime, Code Geass, is. I'm just curious why people find this series so amazing. People hype it so much but this series is filled with nothing but dialogue 90% of the time. The dialogues are pretty much like lectures. I don't know about you, but most people I know and have met find lectures boring. I'd be ok with the lectures if the characters and fights weren't filled with so many cliches. sleeplesstown said: No. Like I said, it's comparisons people have made. F/SN was just a poor adaptation, judging from everything I've heard. neurogal91 said: No idea why people say this series is comparable to death note/code geass in terms of tactics.. Is Code Geass really your go to example for tactics in anime? neurogal91 said: Out of that whole list, 5 of those 'masters' don't belong. The characters are forced into the plot which is lazy writing. Yvese said: No, I don't think this is a shounen fighting tournament. However, I do think it's overrated. It gets far too much praise for being incredibly boring and cliche. - Arrogant strong guy? ( Archer ) Check - Fights that last 15-20 seconds before the opponents start saying cliche lines and end up not killing each other? Check - Characters that do nothing but sip wine and talk boring philosophical/idealistic nonsense? Check The characters in the anime do far too much talking when they should be doing actual planning and tactics to get hold of something as powerful as the grail that grants any wish. Instead, they like to just sip wine and talk about what their wish is and other boring things like philosophy and ideals. No idea why people say this series is comparable to death note/code geass in terms of tactics. Far from it. Instead of doing actual fighting and eliminating the other masters, the characters like to circle jerk and be friends with each other. Considering what's at stake, you'd think they'd have more of a sense of urgency. But really what's at stake? If you examine each of the master's intention of entering the war: -Tohsaka Tokiomi truly wants it and he's also prepared many tactics since the second episode with deceiving other masters about Assassin, scouting other masters, sacrificing Assassin to find out Rider's Noble Phantasm etc. - Matou Kariya only wants to save Sakura by winning the war, but lost his mind halfway with thinking only want to kills Tokiomi. -Emiya Kiritsugu works for Einzbern, came close to kill Kayneth and already kill Ryuunosuke. - Kayneth just entered it for fame. -Waver Velvet also entered it for fame and pride. - Kotomine Kirei doesn't even want to enter at the first place. - Ryuunosuke was chosen at last minute and just wanted to kill people, has no intention to obtain the Holy Grail. Actually the only ones who truly wants the Grail to grant their wish is only the Matou, Tohsaka and Einzbern family because they are the original creators of the war. The rest of masters are actually chosen just to fill slots to think they can win it, but the true contenders is only the three families. The rest of the masters doesn't really want the Holy Grail as much as them, and this tournament is just considered some small far east magic competition. And remember if they lost this one, they will just wait another 60 years for another chance to win, which was what Matou Zouken wanted to prepare for with Sakura. So their mindset practically 'If we lost this one, we can try next time' thus the sense of urgency is not that high. This is supposed to be a war for the holy grail that grants any wish, yet 5 were chosen that have no place in it. That's what confuses me about the hype surrounding this anime. Are people just blinded by the name of the series, causing them to be unable to see its flaws? Kind of like how any game BioWare puts out is automatically praised despite ME3 and SWTOR being huge disappointments. |
YveseApr 19, 2012 12:10 PM
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Yvese said: ... Who the hell even compares Fate/Zero to Code Geass or Death Note? It sounds like you were expecting an anime similar to twose two, and got disappointed because it wasn't. I don't get most of your cliché arguments either.. How many anime have long 'philisophical' and boring talks? And I'm just using your words there, because all the dialogue is very relevant to the plot and development of the characters, but I suppose character development is overrated. In my opinion it's just another case of 'I don't like this anime, thus it's overrated.' Lazy writing? None of the characters feel forced in the plot to me, but it seems like you prefer the story to follow the structure that has been lined out beforehand, instead of exceptions or complications showing up. I don't even know why you care about the number of actual magi in the war. Does it matter to the story in any way? And I'll just say that Waver is a magi just as much as the others, but simply way less experienced and still learning. Kiritsugu is also a magi, but uses onorthodox methods. But as I said earlier, you most likely prefer there to be no exceptions and they all should be equal magi with an equal interest in the Grail. Or so it seems like. I think you are seeing flaws others cannot see. There are simply some elements you disagree with, and you might find it annoying or whatever but it doesn't make the show any worse. And no, we are not blindly praising anything of the Fate franchise because the FSN anime was terribly mediocre, at best. |
OkaishiApr 19, 2012 12:33 PM
Yvese said: That's what confuses me about the hype surrounding this anime. Are people just blinded by the name of the series, causing them to be unable to see its flaws? Oh would you just get over yourself? Look at your own fucking favourites for crying out loud. It's a difference in opinion, it happens. You see flaws in Fate/Zero that I and others don't see or don't consider to be flaws. It works both ways. I see flaws in Code Geass, Clannad, Angel Beats and Steins;Gate that you probably don't consider to be flaws, they are all popular, hyped and in the top ten (with the exception of Angel Beats, though it's still in the top 60) but I'm not going through their forums treating their popularity like some baffling unsolvable mystery no matter how undeserved I believe their hype to be. Okaishi said: Yvese said: ... Who the hell even compares Fate/Zero to Code Geass or Death Note? It sounds like you were expecting an anime similar to twose two, and got disappointed because it wasn't. I don't get most of your cliché arguments either.. How many anime have long 'philisophical' and boring talks? And I'm just using your words there, because all the dialogue is very relevant to the plot and development of the characters, but I suppose character development is overrated. In my opinion it's just another case of 'I don't like this anime, thus it's overrated.' Lazy writing? None of the characters feel forced in the plot to me, but it seems like you prefer the story to follow the structure that has been lined out beforehand, instead of exceptions or complications showing up. I don't even know why you care about the number of actual magi in the war. Does it matter to the story in any way? And I'll just say that Waver is a magi just as much as the others, but simply way less experienced and still learning. Kiritsugu is also a magi, but uses onorthodox methods. But as I said earlier, you most likely prefer there to be no exceptions and they all should be equal magi with an equal interest in the Grail. Or so it seems like. I think you are seeing flaws others cannot see. There are simply some elements you disagree with, and you might find it annoying or whatever but it doesn't make the show any worse. And no, we are not blindly praising anything of the Fate franchise because the FSN anime was terribly mediocre, at best. Seriously, the part about lazy writing made me laugh. He proposes a version of Fate/Zero where all the masters come from an esteemed magi house and seek the grail for the same basic reason and thinks that the alternative (A more varied group of characters with more distinct motivations) is lazy writing? |
TopgunUKApr 19, 2012 12:39 PM
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neurogal91 said: Yvese said: Out of that whole list, 5 of those 'masters' don't belong. The characters are forced into the plot which is lazy writing. This is supposed to be a war for the holy grail that grants any wish, yet 5 were chosen that have no place in it. That's what confuses me about the hype surrounding this anime. Are people just blinded by the name of the series, causing them to be unable to see its flaws? Kind of like how any game BioWare puts out is automatically praised despite ME3 and SWTOR being huge disappointments. Err, actually not. You see, this is the 4th Grail War. What basically happens in the first 3 (IIRC): -The first are started by Einzbern, Matou and Tokiomi family working together to summon the Holy Grail, just to find out it can only grant one wish, so they need to fight for it. -The second war they fight each other to death, no one wins. -The third war IIRC is when the three families started to invite the outsiders for the war but it's just something to fill up the slots, nobody wins again. Which brings us the 4th one. You have to remember that Fate/Zero is a prequel written after Fate/Stay Night for the enjoyment of Fate fans, so all these hype is Type-Moon fans who knows all the rules created in the Fate universe excited that finally a proper Fate anime is being made after the failure of Fate/Stay Night anime. And yes even Fate/Stay Night the VN has long-winded explanation and dialogues. actually IIRC the first 1 was summoned but because of disagreement they fought and no outsiders were invited and because of that not enough servants are absorbed into the grail at the end of the war so it failed 2nd war had no rules and no command seals so servants basically did whatever they wanted therefore they took way too long to end the war (grail only lasts for 14 days after the servants are summoned) 3rd war the grail vessel was destroyed prematurely and because the einzberns tried to cheat and summoned angra mainyu so when he got defeated the grail absorbed him and was corrupted |
BloodRequiemApr 19, 2012 12:41 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
UnrealPie said: Thanks for letting me know in advanced, I know people are most likely going to start a flame war over this but I would really like to know ^_^; If anything I guess I can say I called it, though you guys arguing did make for a good few minutes of laughter. Thanks for all the insight guys so far it seems like you guys are going back and forth between its good, then its not good. Its still a bit confusing to me but I think I understand the background a little more, I guess I will start off with the VN and see what happens from here. Though could someone at least answer this question for me, Should I sit through Stay Night and endure the boredom or just jump to Zero, no one really came out with a straight forward answer, its like you guys are trying to hard to protect or bash the anime. ^_^; |
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BloodRequiem said: So much wrong in that but spoilers for anyone not familiar with Fate...neurogal91 said: Err, actually not. You see, this is the 4th Grail War. What basically happens in the first 3 (IIRC): -The first are started by Einzbern, Matou and Tokiomi family working together to summon the Holy Grail, just to find out it can only grant one wish, so they need to fight for it. -The second war they fight each other to death, no one wins. -The third war IIRC is when the three families started to invite the outsiders for the war but it's just something to fill up the slots, nobody wins again. Which brings us the 4th one. You have to remember that Fate/Zero is a prequel written after Fate/Stay Night for the enjoyment of Fate fans, so all these hype is Type-Moon fans who knows all the rules created in the Fate universe excited that finally a proper Fate anime is being made after the failure of Fate/Stay Night anime. And yes even Fate/Stay Night the VN has long-winded explanation and dialogues. actually IIRC the first 1 was summoned but because of disagreement they fought and no outsiders were invited and because of that not enough servants are absorbed into the grail at the end of the war so it failed 2nd war had no rules and no command seals so servants basically did whatever they wanted therefore they took way too long to end the war (grail only lasts for 14 days after the servants are summoned) 3rd war the grail vessel was destroyed prematurely and because the einzberns tried to cheat and summoned angra mainyu so when he got defeated the grail absorbed him and was corrupted |
Leon-GunApr 19, 2012 2:03 PM
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UnrealPie said: Though could someone at least answer this question for me, Should I sit through Stay Night and endure the boredom or just jump to Zero, no one really came out with a straight forward answer, its like you guys are trying to hard to protect or bash the anime. ^_^; Zero is supposed to be the prequel to Stay Night, so you go get it, champ. |
UnrealPie said: UnrealPie said: Thanks for letting me know in advanced, I know people are most likely going to start a flame war over this but I would really like to know ^_^; If anything I guess I can say I called it, though you guys arguing did make for a good few minutes of laughter. Thanks for all the insight guys so far it seems like you guys are going back and forth between its good, then its not good. Its still a bit confusing to me but I think I understand the background a little more, I guess I will start off with the VN and see what happens from here. Though could someone at least answer this question for me, Should I sit through Stay Night and endure the boredom or just jump to Zero, no one really came out with a straight forward answer, its like you guys are trying to hard to protect or bash the anime. ^_^; You won't be bored, I can just about guarantee it. But, then again, if you are intent on disliking it before you even start it then who knows? |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3soldiern said: You won't be bored, I can just about guarantee it. But, then again, if you are intent on disliking it before you even start it then who knows? i've seen the first 5 episodes of Stay night and I almost fell asleep during part of it. So I wanted to know if it was actually WORTH watching. |
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UnrealPie said: insan3soldiern said: You won't be bored, I can just about guarantee it. But, then again, if you are intent on disliking it before you even start it then who knows? i've seen the first 5 episodes of Stay night and I almost fell asleep during part of it. So I wanted to know if it was actually WORTH watching. I'm pretty sure Insan was referring to the FSN VN. |
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Ragna92 said: UnrealPie said: insan3soldiern said: You won't be bored, I can just about guarantee it. But, then again, if you are intent on disliking it before you even start it then who knows? i've seen the first 5 episodes of Stay night and I almost fell asleep during part of it. So I wanted to know if it was actually WORTH watching. I'm pretty sure Insan was referring to the FSN VN. anime is definitely not worth watching cuz deen basically took a huge dump over the original source |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Jump into F/Z anime or F/Stay night Visual Novel |
Ragna92 said: UnrealPie said: insan3soldiern said: You won't be bored, I can just about guarantee it. But, then again, if you are intent on disliking it before you even start it then who knows? i've seen the first 5 episodes of Stay night and I almost fell asleep during part of it. So I wanted to know if it was actually WORTH watching. I'm pretty sure Insan was referring to the FSN VN. I was definitely talking about the Fate/stay VN. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Slicer22 said: Don't know, don't have a Vita so don't know how it works. Pretty sure it was for download on the PSN for the PSP though, so if the Vita has access to the same service then I guess?Man i love you i never knew Fate/Extra was localized for the PSP now it makes me want to go replace my broken psp or get a ps vita since i think when i searched up the game after reading about it from your post i think someone said you can download it for ps vita, is that true? Yvese said: Going to address these things in order:- Arrogant strong guy? ( Archer ) Check - Fights that last 15-20 seconds before the opponents start saying cliche lines and end up not killing each other? Check - Characters that do nothing but sip wine and talk boring philosophical/idealistic nonsense? Check - Guys in tournament/war that doesn't give a damn about the prize and in it to save someone or just in it for fun? ( Kariya/Ryuunosuke ) Check For a show that's supposed to involve 7 magi, there's only been two that are actual mages. TWO. Kayneth and Tokiomi. The rest are either terrible at magic, no experience, or just plain don't use magic. The characters in the anime do far too much talking when they should be doing actual planning and tactics to get hold of something as powerful as the grail that grants any wish. Instead, they like to just sip wine and talk about what their wish is and other boring things like philosophy and ideals. No idea why people say this series is comparable to death note/code geass in terms of tactics. Far from it. Instead of doing actual fighting and eliminating the other masters, the characters like to circle jerk and be friends with each other. Considering what's at stake, you'd think they'd have more of a sense of urgency. -Archer being an arrogant strong guy isn't cliche. It technically can't be. Archer is Gilgamesh, the first arrogant strong guy in anything. He was the character type almost 5,000 years before any anime you've ever seen was made. Plus, unlike a lot of those characters, that's not the end all to his character, and he actually is as strong as he thinks he is. -Are you watching the show? Kiritsugu blew up a building to kill Kayneth, and would've killed him the next episode if not for Saber's chivalry. As for the big battle episode, everyone was too stunned at Archer and Berserker to do much at first, then Saber and Lancer's chivalry (and Rider wanting a good fight) kept them all from killing each other there. It's like everyone that complains about nobody dying for a while ignores the personalities of the Servants completely. Or would you find it perfectly in character for King Arthur to backstab Lancer/Rider while they were watching Archer and Berserker? -I'm guessing you aren't watching it very well. Since Assassin was "killed," Kirei has to stay in the church like the "loser" he is. Meanwhile, Archer's there because Tokiomi wants to use Assassin to scout out all the other Servants. Archer wants to fight, but Tokiomi is too cautious. Archer appearing in episode 5 was completely against his plans, since he was still observing the other Servants using Assassin. Archer just couldn't keep his temper in check. They're sipping wine in the church because they have nothing else to do. Assassin's doing all the work at that point. -It's a plot point as to why the Grail picks people like Kirei and Ryuunosuke. It'll be revealed later, I think. As for Kariya, the Grail always picks a Matou, Einzbern, and Tohsaka Master if one is available since they started the whole thing. Thus, Kariya, Kiritsugu, Tokiomi. -Kiritsugu and Tokiomi pretty much spend the entire time doing tactics stuff. The very fact that Kiritsugu is never with Saber is a plan in of itself, and you'll notice that once Assassin dies, Tokiomi's "wait it out" tactics are blown so he and Archer have to do things themselves, hence their appearance in episode 14. -Your list says you watched Fate/Stay Night. That has ONE experienced mage in it, just Rin. Unless that bothered you there too, that's a silly thing to complain about here. -So with Kayneth quickly taken out of active participation, the ones that want to win the most are Kiritsugu and Tokiomi who are being careful with their plotting, Waver who lacks the experience, and Kariya, who is going insane from the Crest Worms inside of him and thus only appears when Archer does and will literally die if Berserker fights too much anyway. |
Okaishi said: People have compared the tactics to death note and code geass. That wasn't me. Posters here need to stop assuming it's me. Also, touche on character development. It's quite frankly the most boring kind I've seen to me. It could be because I despise lectures. I don't enjoy sitting and hearing people talk 90% of the time which is what this show consists of.Yvese said: ... Who the hell even compares Fate/Zero to Code Geass or Death Note? It sounds like you were expecting an anime similar to twose two, and got disappointed because it wasn't. I don't get most of your cliché arguments either.. How many anime have long 'philisophical' and boring talks? And I'm just using your words there, because all the dialogue is very relevant to the plot and development of the characters, but I suppose character development is overrated. In my opinion it's just another case of 'I don't like this anime, thus it's overrated.' Lazy writing? None of the characters feel forced in the plot to me, but it seems like you prefer the story to follow the structure that has been lined out beforehand, instead of exceptions or complications showing up. I don't even know why you care about the number of actual magi in the war. Does it matter to the story in any way? And I'll just say that Waver is a magi just as much as the others, but simply way less experienced and still learning. Kiritsugu is also a magi, but uses onorthodox methods. But as I said earlier, you most likely prefer there to be no exceptions and they all should be equal magi with an equal interest in the Grail. Or so it seems like. I think you are seeing flaws others cannot see. There are simply some elements you disagree with, and you might find it annoying or whatever but it doesn't make the show any worse. And no, we are not blindly praising anything of the Fate franchise because the FSN anime was terribly mediocre, at best. As for the writing, the characters to me feel forced. You have ryuunosuke who's main purpose is to piss off the other players. Kariya's only there to protect sakura and had no intentions of even being in the war. The rest were already explained by neurogal91. There's only 2 masters in the war that even want the damn grail. The rest are just there for everyone elses amusement. And yes, I do prefer if all the masters were equal ( Or atleast near equal ) and all had interests in the grail. Instead, there's only two that want it and the rest could careless. TheRealBoyd said: Slicer22 said: Don't know, don't have a Vita so don't know how it works. Pretty sure it was for download on the PSN for the PSP though, so if the Vita has access to the same service then I guess?Man i love you i never knew Fate/Extra was localized for the PSP now it makes me want to go replace my broken psp or get a ps vita since i think when i searched up the game after reading about it from your post i think someone said you can download it for ps vita, is that true? Yvese said: Going to address these things in order:- Arrogant strong guy? ( Archer ) Check - Fights that last 15-20 seconds before the opponents start saying cliche lines and end up not killing each other? Check - Characters that do nothing but sip wine and talk boring philosophical/idealistic nonsense? Check - Guys in tournament/war that doesn't give a damn about the prize and in it to save someone or just in it for fun? ( Kariya/Ryuunosuke ) Check For a show that's supposed to involve 7 magi, there's only been two that are actual mages. TWO. Kayneth and Tokiomi. The rest are either terrible at magic, no experience, or just plain don't use magic. The characters in the anime do far too much talking when they should be doing actual planning and tactics to get hold of something as powerful as the grail that grants any wish. Instead, they like to just sip wine and talk about what their wish is and other boring things like philosophy and ideals. No idea why people say this series is comparable to death note/code geass in terms of tactics. Far from it. Instead of doing actual fighting and eliminating the other masters, the characters like to circle jerk and be friends with each other. Considering what's at stake, you'd think they'd have more of a sense of urgency. -Archer being an arrogant strong guy isn't cliche. It technically can't be. Archer is Gilgamesh, the first arrogant strong guy in anything. He was the character type almost 5,000 years before any anime you've ever seen was made. Plus, unlike a lot of those characters, that's not the end all to his character, and he actually is as strong as he thinks he is. -Are you watching the show? Kiritsugu blew up a building to kill Kayneth, and would've killed him the next episode if not for Saber's chivalry. As for the big battle episode, everyone was too stunned at Archer and Berserker to do much at first, then Saber and Lancer's chivalry (and Rider wanting a good fight) kept them all from killing each other there. It's like everyone that complains about nobody dying for a while ignores the personalities of the Servants completely. Or would you find it perfectly in character for King Arthur to backstab Lancer/Rider while they were watching Archer and Berserker? -I'm guessing you aren't watching it very well. Since Assassin was "killed," Kirei has to stay in the church like the "loser" he is. Meanwhile, Archer's there because Tokiomi wants to use Assassin to scout out all the other Servants. Archer wants to fight, but Tokiomi is too cautious. Archer appearing in episode 5 was completely against his plans, since he was still observing the other Servants using Assassin. Archer just couldn't keep his temper in check. They're sipping wine in the church because they have nothing else to do. Assassin's doing all the work at that point. -It's a plot point as to why the Grail picks people like Kirei and Ryuunosuke. It'll be revealed later, I think. As for Kariya, the Grail always picks a Matou, Einzbern, and Tohsaka Master if one is available since they started the whole thing. Thus, Kariya, Kiritsugu, Tokiomi. -Kiritsugu and Tokiomi pretty much spend the entire time doing tactics stuff. The very fact that Kiritsugu is never with Saber is a plan in of itself, and you'll notice that once Assassin dies, Tokiomi's "wait it out" tactics are blown so he and Archer have to do things themselves, hence their appearance in episode 14. -Your list says you watched Fate/Stay Night. That has ONE experienced mage in it, just Rin. Unless that bothered you there too, that's a silly thing to complain about here. -So with Kayneth quickly taken out of active participation, the ones that want to win the most are Kiritsugu and Tokiomi who are being careful with their plotting, Waver who lacks the experience, and Kariya, who is going insane from the Crest Worms inside of him and thus only appears when Archer does and will literally die if Berserker fights too much anyway. - He's an arrogant strong guy. Doesn't matter who he is. It's the same guy you'd find in any shounen. The lines he spews out is cliche and again, something you'd find in any shounen. But of course, any show that involves fighting needs to have an arrogant strong guy I suppose. - Kiritsugi is about the only other guy in the show that actually plots anything. Not surprising considering his character. Kirei and tokiomi are the only others that plot anything. That's my issue. As for the battles, I'm talking about how the fights are cliche. Archer and Berserker fighting in ep 5 was pretty much the only non-cliche fight in the series so far. What do I mean by cliche? Characters stopping their fight and talking like your typical shounen. Words about honor or how 'you can't beat me', while staring at each other like in DBZ. The only well choreographed, non cliche fights are Berserker vs Archer. That's no surprise considering berserker doesn't talk. Funny how that works. No interruptions, just plain brawling rather than staring at each other holding hands and being friends. - I get they have to stay in the church. Doesn't mean I was wrong. All they do is sip wine and talk. This happens in every episode. 90% of the episode consists of talking. The other 10% are actual plotting and fighting ( Or any kind of action really ) - Hidden plot point? Ok. Hopefully it's explained because at this point I don't see the reason. - That's the problem I have. Kiritsugu and Tokiomi are the only ones that actually plot anything. The rest of the masters just circle jerk and do w/e the hell they please. At this point you could replace the grail and say they're in a deathmatch and it would be the same show, except instead of asking each other what their wish is, they'd ask each other why they're in a deathmatch. - FSN is widely accepted as inferior. However, that doesn't mean FS/Z is any better. Now instead of ONE experienced mage, you have 2-3. - And there we go. We're back to Kiritsugu and Tokiomi again. At this point the other masters are just there for amusement. Just plot devices to cock-block them. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the show. I even rated the first season an 8. I just think it's overrated and am just curious why people rate it a 9 or 10. You and others here laid out your reasons constructively and I thank you for that. Topgunuk69 said: Usually I don't respond to people that can't even post constructively but I'll bite. Yvese said: That's what confuses me about the hype surrounding this anime. Are people just blinded by the name of the series, causing them to be unable to see its flaws? Oh would you just get over yourself? Look at your own fucking favourites for crying out loud. It's a difference in opinion, it happens. You see flaws in Fate/Zero that I and others don't see or don't consider to be flaws. It works both ways. I see flaws in Code Geass, Clannad, Angel Beats and Steins;Gate that you probably don't consider to be flaws, they are all popular, hyped and in the top ten (with the exception of Angel Beats, though it's still in the top 60) but I'm not going through their forums treating their popularity like some baffling unsolvable mystery no matter how undeserved I believe their hype to be. Okaishi said: Yvese said: ... Who the hell even compares Fate/Zero to Code Geass or Death Note? It sounds like you were expecting an anime similar to twose two, and got disappointed because it wasn't. I don't get most of your cliché arguments either.. How many anime have long 'philisophical' and boring talks? And I'm just using your words there, because all the dialogue is very relevant to the plot and development of the characters, but I suppose character development is overrated. In my opinion it's just another case of 'I don't like this anime, thus it's overrated.' Lazy writing? None of the characters feel forced in the plot to me, but it seems like you prefer the story to follow the structure that has been lined out beforehand, instead of exceptions or complications showing up. I don't even know why you care about the number of actual magi in the war. Does it matter to the story in any way? And I'll just say that Waver is a magi just as much as the others, but simply way less experienced and still learning. Kiritsugu is also a magi, but uses onorthodox methods. But as I said earlier, you most likely prefer there to be no exceptions and they all should be equal magi with an equal interest in the Grail. Or so it seems like. I think you are seeing flaws others cannot see. There are simply some elements you disagree with, and you might find it annoying or whatever but it doesn't make the show any worse. And no, we are not blindly praising anything of the Fate franchise because the FSN anime was terribly mediocre, at best. Seriously, the part about lazy writing made me laugh. He proposes a version of Fate/Zero where all the masters come from an esteemed magi house and seek the grail for the same basic reason and thinks that the alternative (A more varied group of characters with more distinct motivations) is lazy writing? Yes, the anime in my favorites have flaws. Every anime does. To not have flaws means an anime is perfect which is impossible. However, the entertainment value of the anime in my favorites far outweigh any flaws for me. I layed out the flaws I see in FS/Z; 90% talking, 10% plotting and fighting that consists of stare downs and cliche dialogue. If you don't like that I'm 'insulting' your precious anime, I'd stop reading forums if I were you. Atleast I'm actually posting reasons why I think it's overrated, rather than posting one sentence and call it a day which I see far too often on these forums. Rather than be so upset that someone is disagreeing with an anime you love, convince them why it's so great. |
YveseApr 19, 2012 5:46 PM
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| Gilgamesh was an arrogant douche even before arrogant douches were invented. He is THE archetype for arrogant bastards. Either way he did more than he should have explaining to you every little complaint you had. And I said "more than he should have" because there's no way of convincing someone who's set on hating something. Your mind is already set on "hate" mode so that's kinda hard to turn around. After all, you hate the characters themseves, can't really do much about it. |
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UnrealPie said: Its still a bit confusing to me but I think I understand the background a little more, I guess I will start off with the VN and see what happens from here. Though could someone at least answer this question for me, Should I sit through Stay Night and endure the boredom or just jump to Zero If you really want to enjoy it, read the FSN VN (all paths), and skip the anime. Then move on to F/Z. Contrary to popular opinion, I believe FSN has the better story and far better developed characters (compared to F/Z thus far). The VN is long though, and it does have a plethora of mundane scenes, i.e. lots of eating. If you really can't stand FSN, you CAN skip to F/Z. |
MissileSoupApr 19, 2012 11:24 PM
| @Yvese: I'm not sure if it's because of reading the Fate/Stay Night VN, but the dialogue is very interesting for me because you see how the characters develop towards a certain direction. Kotomine is a very good example of how he starts to discover his true nature, even though he might have realized it subcontiously before but burried it. The fighting scenes look awesome, and I don't think the talks in between are cliché at all. Let's be honest here, it's not like we're hearing "I haven't shown you my true powers yet" or "Is that all you are capable of," or something amonst these lines and the senseless chatter that usually follows. Why is talking about honour cliché? I don't get that either, it's not like it's common to see such conversations in your usual anime. You might have a very different understanding of the word cliché, because I honestly can't see it at all. Calling 90% talking a flaw is ridiculous, it's simply that the conversations and characters don't appeal to you. There are favourites on your list as well that contain 90% or more talking, so why would it be a flaw here? The suggestions you're making would indeed simplify the story and would actually make it more cliché than the anime actually is. It's why I'm thinking your contradicting yourself. You dislike the difference in power and motivation between the Masters, and suggest you'd rather want them to be equal. Whats the fun in that? And that sounds terribly cliché, a bunch of equally strong people fighting to the death on every possible occasion. It's the chemistry between the Servants that makes things interesting, but you'd rather let them cut eachother up at every encounter, which would most likely include little to no meaningful dialogue, other than maybe a few standard phrases like "Too slow!" or "I got you!" Sorry, but I fail to see why that would make Fate/Zero any better. It's just your taste that I disagree with the most here. Why is it an issue that Kotomine/Tokiomi and Kiritsugu are the only ones making the most elaborate plans? Do you want 7 equally genius Masters making ingenious plots to outsmart their opponents? That doesn't sound interesting in the slightest to me, because the random factors (Rider/Berserker/Caster) will be unpredictable and make you curious to see what happens next. And 7 Masters all being smart and planning far ahead doesn't sound any more original than it currently is. And I wanted to avoid using the word cliché there, but I just mentioned it to clarify my argument. I don't hope you actually believe we can convince you Fate/Zero is great? You'll still see its 'flaws,' and your opinion will remain regardless. I tried my best in explaining why I like the anime and why I disagree with your view of it, but I don't think it'll change anything anyway. |
Yvese said: Usually I don't respond to people that can't even post constructively but I'll bite. Yes, the anime in my favorites have flaws. Every anime does. To not have flaws means an anime is perfect which is impossible. I hope you don't think this is news to me. I wasn't implying that I think Fate/Zero is flawless, I was saying that you are taking things that I don't consider to be flaws and labelling them as such. Yvese said: However, the entertainment value of the anime in my favorites far outweigh any flaws for me. So why can't you understand that the same might be true here for people with this show and leave it at that? Yvese said: I layed out the flaws I see in FS/Z; 90% talking, 10% plotting and fighting that consists of stare downs and cliche dialogue. You laid out what you perceive to be flaws, and I disagree for the most part. I like the dialogue, to dismiss the "90% talking" as though it's a flaw is idiotic in my opinion. Most of the dialogue is either important to the events of the plot or serves to flesh out the characters and their relationships in some way. Some of it does amount to grandstanding during fights, and it could be considered cliche, would I trade some of this dialogue for more fighting? Sure. Am I going to hold it against the show? No. And with most of your complaints you're not really laying out flaws at all. It's like you took the basic premise and wrote a really unimaginative fanfiction version of how the show should go in your head based on your own arbitrary preferences. Then when the show doesn't follow your mental script you count it as a flaw. Even though the ways in which it diverges from your script give characters more variety in their backgrounds, personalities, motivations, methods and goals you consider them to be flaws (call me crazy but I consider those good things). It actually reminds me of Roriconfan's review of the first season where he wrote his own fanfiction versions of how the war could've ended in a single clusterfuck of a battle, and tried to paint it as a bad thing that his version didn't transpire. What he seems to have overlooked is how terrible and unsatisfying a show Fate/Zero would be if it actually ended like that. Yvese said: Rather than be so upset that someone is disagreeing with an anime you love, convince them why it's so great. You've watched the show and don't think it's so great, I don't see how any amount of talk would convince you otherwise. Yvese said: That's what confuses me about the hype surrounding this anime. Are people just blinded by the name of the series, causing them to be unable to see its flaws? Going back to this. A lot of the people who like Fate/Zero (myself included) hold little affection for the Fate/Stay Night Anime, if the franchise name didn't blind us to its flaws then it's not gonna do so with F/Z. Do you not see how condescending it is for you to assume that here when the majority disagree with you about a show it must be because they're blinded by something, and not just because they legitimately enjoy the show more than you do. |
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| I agree, OP. Fate's pretty overrated. |
destructo22 said: I agree, OP. Fate's pretty overrated. please support your arguments with something more constructive one liners are generally frowned upon in discussions such as these |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| But I'm not arguing anything. |
| it's just outstanding |
destructo22 said: I agree, OP. Fate's pretty overrated. Says the guy who gave it a 9? |
|
| snap |
Perloo said: Yvese said: Please give me an example of cliche dialogue that you constantly reference. Every line between Lancer vs Saber? They were trying to figure out each others names throughout their entire fight. To know the name of your opponent can give you an advantage over them. Kiritsugu didn't even speak a word to Kayneth in their entire fight. You can see Kayneth get progressively more flustered as their fight went on through his mannerism and speech. He calmly analyzed Kiritsugu's magic at first and then began throwing insults as he got more and more annoyed. Caster's assault on the Einzbern forest? No sorry there was no cliche dialogue here either. Saber deduced that his grimoire was his Noble Phantasm and planned an attack with Lancer to destroy it. The battle at the river in the new episodes? Well the only talking was between Tokiomi and Kariya and that was definitely not cliche dialogue. In the end, I really think you just hate when characters talk in general, and you aren't paying any attention to what they are actually saying. Every dialogue is relevant to further the plot or character, not "DBZ dialogue hurr" as you put it. The character interactions are honestly the selling point of the series, the Fate series has always been about ideals, motivations and getting inside of their thought processes. If you are just coming here for a couple of fight scenes then there are better shows for you that will serve only that purpose. Yeah, there is also Kirei versus Maiya and Iri. What part of that had "cliché dialogue"? To Yvese: If you're simply not interested about the characters then fine. You're probably gonna label their dialogue as boring or cliche or whatever, there is nothing we can do about it. But there are people who honestly like these characters and find their dialogues to be very interesting. Gilgamesh and Kirei are two of my favorite characters in the Fate universe and I'm always entertained whenever they start talking. I find Gil's arrogance to be absolutely hilarious and trollrific at times, but to you he is just a "cliché arrogant shonen character". Different perspectives regarding the same character. I don't think any amount of arguments will change your opinion on F/Z as a whole. |
| watch it and you will see what is the hype is all about. |
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
NoobHunterD said: No, I think most of the people complaining are complaining because it's just not their type of anime and they are just head set on bitterly hating on people who do. After 3 of these topics I have just 1 thing to say: "just ignore the hate". After all, the main reason there's even so much hate is because F/Z is on the top 10 due to MAL's flawed system.watch it and you will see what is the hype is all about. |
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