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| There is nothing more you can expect of ending, yeah they could have better ending but that should longer the chapters beside the ending was quite good. It's ending happy at least. :) |
Nothing ventured, nothing gained (Girls und Panzer der Film ) / from Nishizumi Miho |
| I don't get why the ending is really depressing. It's realistic but hopeful. It doesn't say that they WON'T be able to stay together, just that they understand it might not happen. Also, the fact that both of them at the end were thinking they wouldn't stay together because they wanted the best for their partner, and weren't sure they could provide it, says a LOT about their true feelings for each other. Only if you really love someone can you consider what would be best with them as your first priority, and allow that to even override your desire to keep them with you. In other words, I took the ending as even further proof that they really do love each other, in a manner far more mature than their age, and as such have a really good shot to stay together and be happy. |
| Ooh, that was a nice read in one day. :) Really, I liked the ending. It was kind of sad, but really.... how many high school relationships will last that long? Not many. They'll probably go to different colleges and may stay in touch somewhat. They could also get married. I think the point is that they both changed each other's lives for the better. Aikawa can now overcome her fear of men with time and Daisuke learned to not judge a girl just by how she acts... among other things. Really, it was a pretty realistic manga so the ending was quite realistic as well. I really enjoyed it. :) |
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| What an evil way to finish this manga... |
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| i thought that the ending will be more interesting but it's the other way around.. It was to simple that I cant even get it off from my head i wish the ending may be better.. or maybe if the author could make it more than an open ending.. by the way this story is good but i hate to accept the ending.. ^^ |
My Grandmother Always said.. He who walks through the path of heaven will rule over everything.. |
| Have any of you guys ever watched Hispanic or American soap operas? Yes, no? Do you realize that this manga is an exact replica of them, right down to the "deep, dark secrets", shocking revelations, and completely unnecessary and random sexual assaults of the female protagonist for no apparent reason? An extremely generous 5/10, for no other reason than my eyes popping out at how sick, twisted, and disturbing the whole story was....AND HOW IT WAS WRITTEN BY A MODERATELY ATTRACTIVE 40 YEAR OLD WOMAN, NOT JUST SOME CRAZY, PERVERTED 30 YEAR OLD JAPANESE DUDE. |
shift244 said: ShaolinRibiero said: Have any of you guys ever watched Hispanic or American soap operas? Yes, no? Do you realize that this manga is an exact replica of them, right down to the "deep, dark secrets", shocking revelations, and completely unnecessary and random sexual assaults of the female protagonist for no apparent reason? Hmm... no not really. Do those titles use these as the main plotline rather than as a back story as this is? I can assure you that if you found "Bitter Virgin" wonderful, you will find American daytime soap operas like "Days of our Lives" or Hispanic ones like "Nina Amada Mia" simply FANTASTIC. Daytime soap operas have similarly overdramatic and shocking core elements involving rape, illegitimate children, false rape allegations, miscarriages, etc. It's actually uncanny at how BV resembles such soaps much closer than it is a typical manga. And, exactly like "Bitter Virgin", they're resolved in the very last chapter/episode, right as one of the main characters is about to leave, or there's some other contrived crisis. If anything, daytime soaps are more intelligent than "Bitter Virgin", which is really saying something. Honestly, if you've never watched daytime soaps, check them out. You'd absolutely love them. |
| Bitter Virgin is probably one of the most poorly drawn mangas that only manage to stay alive by using copious amounts of clicheed lines that require the reader to show his/her sympathy. It was a waste of my time. If you're only easily drawn in by these types of mangas, then soap operas and cheesy dramas that try to pretend to be thought provoking are just tailored fit for you. |
| A person who judges a manga series to be good or not by mere artwork is stupid. A person who expects "Death Note" from a drama manga like Bitter Virgin is stupid. Bitter Virgin gets 9/10 for me. |
kathy025Dec 13, 2008 8:34 PM
kathy025 said: A person who judges a manga series to be good or not by mere artwork is stupid. A person who expects "Death Note" from a drama manga like Bitter Virgin is stupid. A person like arimakenshin is stupid. Bitter Virgin gets 9/10 for me. It's really polite of you to insult people who disagree with you. Thanks for your mature insight. You don't have to be so Bitter because of a poorly written manga... |
arimakenshinDec 13, 2008 3:37 PM
| 8/10 for me, for now, a good manga. Oh and please dont insult each other, sure arim was a bit harsh, if he did not like something he did not have to post his hate, but your reply was a direct attack... |
arimakenshin said: It's really polite of you to insult people who disagree with you. Thanks for your mature insight. You don't have to be so Bitter because of a poorly written manga... Hey arimakenshin, be more sensitive, dude. kathy is an 18 year old from the Philippines. She can relate on a personal level to everything that happened to the female protagonist in the story. |
Friendlysoul said: 8/10 for me, for now, a good manga. Oh and please dont insult each other, sure arim was a bit harsh, if he did not like something he did not have to post his hate, but your reply was a direct attack... Ok FriendlySoul. I too was a bit harsh and I didn't have to post my hate as well. For that, my apologies. I took out the last sentence. Here, I will explain my grounds and this time no personal attack as I will plainly deal with the CONTENT of the conversation, but using the word "stupid" is still inevitable: arimakenshin said: Bitter Virgin is probably one of the most poorly drawn mangas that only manage to stay alive by using copious amounts of clicheed lines that require the reader to show his/her sympathy. It was a waste of my time. If you're only easily drawn in by these types of mangas, then soap operas and cheesy dramas that try to pretend to be thought provoking are just tailored fit for you. In terms of "one of the most poorly drawn", that is too much. I agree that it doesn't have the best artwork, but there are WORSE, which I chose not to mention as it may spring another topic going off on a tangent.  It's ridiculous to expect "thought-provoking" themes from a ROMANCE/DRAMA manga. Why? Because it's romance/drama. It's not thought-provoking and does NOT pretend to be because it's simply NOT. So that reasoning was indeed stupid. Being a ROMANCE/DRAMA manga, it's only natural and logical for it to "require the reader to show his/her sympathy". So at that point, another stupid argument. I hope somebody's getting my point on this though. |
kathy025Dec 13, 2008 9:20 PM
ShaolinRibiero said: kathy is an 18 year old from the Philippines. She can relate on a personal level to everything that happened to the female protagonist in the story. Whether that was meant as a sarcastic insult or an honest statement, I'll leave it up to you. But yeah, maybe there's some "personal level" going on since me and 2 of my cousins went through something similar as the female protagonist and in all our cases, it wasn't even our stepfathers. Maybe not exactly something as horrible like that, but along the lines of sexual harassment and all that crap. About the Philippines, you're also right since rape happens here like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We're the pedophile capital, thanks to all the western sex tourists coming over. |
kathy025Dec 13, 2008 9:45 PM
| While this wasn't my reason for giving "Bitter Virgin" a low score, romance and drama not only can be thought-provoking, but in order to really succeed, I think they have to be. This isn't like either action or comedy, where the comedy or spectacular fighting scenes are enough by themselves. Romance is probably the single hardest genre to get right, and for it to be believable and effective, yeah, it certainly has to be thoughtful and speak to the human condition. I'm thinking right now of all the romances in live action films, novels, anime, and manga that I felt were handled well, and every single one was "thought-provoking" and deep on some level. |
LunaDec 26, 2012 8:51 AM
ShaolinRibiero said: Romance is probably the single hardest genre to get right, and for it to be believable and effective, yeah, it certainly has to be thoughtful and speak to the human condition. Indeed I agree. ShaolinRibiero said: I'm thinking right now of all the romances in live action films, novels, anime, and manga that I felt were handled well, and every single one was "thought-provoking" and deep on some level. The thought-provoking nature is generally difficult to grasp as it varies in different genres. For example, thought-provoking is blahblahblah in a psychological theme, but it's another blahblahblah in a dramatic setting. If somebody could properly explain how exactly "thought-provoking" should be in romance/drama, I'd be intrested to hear it. :) |
LunaDec 26, 2012 8:51 AM
kathy25 said: The thought-provoking nature is generally difficult to grasp as it varies in different genres. For example, thought-provoking is blahblahblah in a psychological theme, but it's another blahblahblah in a dramatic setting. If somebody could properly explain how exactly "thought-provoking" should be in romance/drama, I'd be intrested to hear it. :) Examples are easiest. Take the romantic relationship between Tomas and Tereza in "The Unbearable Lightness of Being", the love between Roland and Susan Delgado in "Wizard and Glass", the relationship in "The Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant" or "Love and Anarchy" (yeah, I know, two obscure examples. I was struggling to think of more recent and mainstream ones) or, to a certain extent, to use a manga/anime example, even the relationship between Guts and Caska in "Berserk". Instead, in "Bitter Virgin", Daisuke seems attracted to Aikawa because he has some sick fascination with raped and abused females, and there's nothing really fascinating or thoughtful between them at all. Just that Daisuke (for no apparent reason) protects and loves her, and Aikawa naturally falls in love with the first guy who doesn't want to molest her. |
LunaDec 26, 2012 8:50 AM
ShaolinRibiero said: Examples are easiest. Take the romantic relationship between Tomas and Tereza in "The Unbearable Lightness of Being", the love between Roland and Susan Delgado in "Wizard and Glass", the relationship in "The Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant" or "Love and Anarchy" (yeah, I know, two obscure examples. I was struggling to think of more recent and mainstream ones) or, to a certain extent, to use a manga/anime example, even the relationship between Guts and Caska in "Berserk". Examples are easiest when they aren't in 500BC. Then again, I haven't even watched Berserk. :p ShaolinRibiero said: Instead, in "Bitter Virgin", Daisuke seems attracted to Aikawa because he has some sick fascination with raped and abused females, and there's nothing really fascinating or thoughtful between them at all. Just that Daisuke (for no apparent reason) protects and loves her, and Aikawa naturally falls in love with the first guy who doesn't want to molest her. This here, I disagree and agree. 1) Daisuke isn't "fascinated" with abused women. If he is, he would've let that sicko rape Aikawa in the street to satisfy his fascination. Rather, Daisuke "pities" abused women and he couldn't imagine that a classmate of his, whom he made fun of, is actually a victim. Out of guilt and concern (not fascination), he eventually falls in love with Aikawa and being the kind person that he actually is, he wants to protect people like her. 2) Well naturally, Aikawa is bound to fall in love with somebody who doesn't want to molest her or to somebody who doesn't see her as a "woman" if you know what I'm saying. Considering all the trauma she had physically and emotionally, it's only logical. |
LunaDec 26, 2012 8:50 AM
kathy025 said: Examples are easiest when they aren't in 500BC. Then again, I haven't even watched Berserk. :p Those literature examples are about as mainstream and well-known as you can get, but fine, I just thought of two even more famous ones; the relationship between Scarlett and Rhett in "Gone with the Wind" (book and film), and the love story in "Slumdog Millionaire". kathy025 said: 1) Daisuke isn't "fascinated" with abused women. If he is, he would've let that sicko rape Aikawa in the street to satisfy his fascination. Rather, Daisuke "pities" abused women and he couldn't imagine that a classmate of his, whom he made fun of, is actually a victim. Out of guilt and concern (not fascination), he eventually falls in love with Aikawa and being the kind person that he actually is, he wants to protect people like her. Uh-huh. That's exactly what I wrote; he has a sick fascination with saving troubled, abused women. He wants to take a broken girl and protect and love her. It's a very real and genuine disease. Some of my friends have/had the same obsession, and it's always ended very poorly for them. I've even had a couple of relationships like that when I was a teenager, and they ended badly for me, too. While such a sick attitude towards a girl is realistic, it's not only underdeveloped, but a very weak way to justify an otherwise dumb, boring romance which is only spurred along by one soap opera tragedy after another. kathy025 said: 2) Well naturally, Aikawa is bound to fall in love with somebody who doesn't want to molest her or to somebody who doesn't see her as a "woman" if you know what I'm saying. Considering all the trauma she had physically and emotionally, it's only logical. Right, and unfortunately....it doesn't make for a very compelling story. She basically becomes a mere puppet, not an actual, living, breathing, interesting character. |
LunaDec 26, 2012 8:49 AM
ShaolinRibiero said: kathy025 said: Right, and unfortunately....it doesn't make for a very compelling story. She basically becomes a mere puppet, not an actual, living, breathing, interesting character. This is why I called the manga pathetic because instead of treating rape and the like as a serious subject and develop the main character properly, it used rape to pander the reader for sympathy. The mangaka did quite a mess of this manga even though it had such great potential of being thought provoking (Yes, talking about situations such as rape is a mind blowing situation that a majority of people cannot relate to). I'm done here. Have a nice day. |
ShaolinRibiero said: Those literature examples are about as mainstream and well-known as you can get, but fine, I just thought of two even more famous ones; the relationship between Scarlett and Rhett in "Gone with the Wind" (book and film), and the love story in "Slumdog Millionaire". I was like in 5th grade when my folks rented GwtW. Oh well I'll just dl it. ShaolinRibiero said: He wants to take a broken girl and protect and love her. Is that bad? A relationship fails because of the people involved. A relationship succeeds because of the people involved. Having a relationship from that situation (broken girl blahblahblah) is NOT an instant recipe for failed relationships. If it is, all relationships that don't involve "broken people" should've been successful. Get what I'm saying? It all depends on who are handling the relationship. ShaolinRibiero said: Right, and unfortunately....it doesn't make for a very compelling story. She basically becomes a mere puppet, not an actual, living, breathing, interesting character. If you just look at things on the surface, then that's really what you'll only see and most people seem to fall in this category of understanding. I'm not saying you're shallow or anything, but if you try to look further, this part of the story is what makes it so realistic and convincing. To fall in love with somebody who wants to protect you - very human, very real. |
LunaDec 26, 2012 8:49 AM
arimakenshin said: pander the reader for sympathy As for you, this is the part where you keep on insisting and you keep on getting wrong. As it has been mentioned for like... 3 times in case you haven't been reading, romance/drama "has to be thoughtful and speak to the human condition". It's meant to stir emotions and "ask for sympathy". At that point, the manga did not fail. Have a nice day. :p |
kaichan1221 said: It was pretty The ending was pretty good... I mean they got together, but I think it was missing something. Still loved it though! good. |
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| If you want real tragic romantic drama, then read "Ai-Ren" instead of this fake, sympathy inducing story. |
arimakenshin said: If you want real tragic romantic drama, then read "Ai-Ren" instead of this fake, sympathy inducing story. What should be my response to this... ah I know! Read the previous posts again. Have a nice day. |
| so.. not too optimistic at the end there |
| WHAT IS WITH THAT ENDING!!! everybody thinking that they will never be together in the end.. EVEN AIKAWA AND DAISUKE themselves think that they will never be together in the end.. what is that? its some sort of bittersweet ending... :(( i must admit, kazuki might really be good to tell daisuke about that thing with the glasses guy.. but her tenacity is laudable.. she might actually end up with daisuke if what everyone was saying about them not ending up together comes true... BUT THAT WAS INFURIATING! why is it that they can't end up together!!?!?! |
| True. I thought the ending would be more....detailed probably? It's just lacking and seemed somewhat incomplete >_< |
| I liked the ending actually. It was pretty.... "down to earth"/"realistic" like the rest of the series. I would've been kinda disappointed if it had been a really sappy ending with the two of them confessing their never ending, perfect love for each other or something like that. I liked the fact that at they were both thinking that they will only stay with the other until he/she finds someone better suited for him/her. Ironically that was what really gave me the feeling that they will be together forever :D |
Rocket_Dive said: Thank you. You saved me a lot of time writing my exact thoughts. I agree 100%.I liked the ending actually. It was pretty.... "down to earth"/"realistic" like the rest of the series. I would've been kinda disappointed if it had been a really sappy ending with the two of them confessing their never ending, perfect love for each other or something like that. I liked the fact that at they were both thinking that they will only stay with the other until he/she finds someone better suited for him/her. Ironically that was what really gave me the feeling that they will be together forever :D Bitter Virgin, 9/10. I really loved it. It was really sad but cute and funny too. |
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| GREAT ENDING! |
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| The ending was left for interpretation or something. It would've been better if it was more optimistic, but eh, good read. Felt bad for Yuzu though. And it is slightly depressing that they are already thinking that they will part. |
| Great manga, the ending was a little pessimistic though...I wish they were more positive about the relationship. It would be cool if we got an after story (like Clannad)....but maybe I'm asking for too much. |
| Eh... All the arguing hurt my head a lot. We need more manga like this manga :) |
| I haven't read or watched series that talked about abortion for the exception of NANA, so kudos for that. The idea of "in the future we will not end up together" was good, but the way they reconcile was not special, I expected something more dramatic. I enjoy reading it 7-10. |
ClosedCXJul 21, 2010 3:32 PM
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| Disliked the ending, as did I dislike the characters. I respect the mangaka for writing about such a touchy subject, and she handled the tragedy of Aikawa beautifully, but I also feel like she fell through with the character development, plus the characters in general. I often found myself questioning a lot of situations, as the author would make these seemingly daring events appear as playful. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while the manga did have well crafted scenes, and some quite unique outlooks on life, but I also feel like it had an abhorring developmental process. |
lucjanOct 14, 2010 8:05 AM
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| They should make 2 additional chapters, with 2 different endings. In the first one we would see something like what happened like 5 years later, some proof that their relationship survived. In the second ending they would break up and never see each other again, that ending would be for "haters gonna hate" lol. I really hate these kind of stories where you are still not sure how everything ended... It's like "Ahhh don't bother reading it, there is no conclusive ending." |
| ʕ • ᴥ • ʔ |
| i felt like it was being rushed..i din't really like the ending that much but it was somewhat refreshing not to see a ''happy forever''or''our love will last forever'' kind of ending but the page with the ''shall we go'' and ''yeah'' didn't fit in there in my opinion ._.on the other hand,the ending made some tears roll down my eyes Dx also i didn't like how they were pessimistic anout what would happen but it seemed like they really act mature for their age,since they realized it might not last forever for certain reasons |
| well my reply would be late i just finished the manga, and i like the ending but i was more expecting that after they kissed in the school they should have add another page showing aa few years later they are still happy togerther with a son/ daughter ^....,^ |
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