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Poll: Shakugan no Shana III (Final) Episode 17 Discussion


Feb 6, 2012 12:55 AM

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aww to much explanation. my head feels hurt LOL

well it's good to know that the remaining 3 Gods is going to fight alongside Shana too.
next episode: maelstorm of warfare!!! can't wait to see it
 
Feb 6, 2012 1:05 AM
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To me Yuji is the only interesting character this season. Everyone else is presented in a way that makes no sense (flame hazes) or as mindless followers (denizens).
 
Feb 6, 2012 12:40 PM

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Yuji is certainly a more complex character now that he has merged with the Snake of the Festival, and many of the other characters have had less attention focused on them so we haven't seen much development.

Even in the earlier seasons I had some difficulty with how flame hazes had to give up much of their human identity and feelings in order to protect humanity (having a nun-like figure like Sopia as leader just reinforces this impression). I still somewhat prefer their side, but I'm going to try to avoid the temptation of labeling everything as being either good or evil (Who were the villains when Troy fought with Mycenae?). Both sides have their gods, and both sides are following their divine dictates. The power of the story resides in the love between Yuji and Shana (and certainly people have stopped complaining about "wimp Yuji" this season), and the inevitable conflict between them despite that love. I'm hoping for a happy ending (one that allows the love to be realized), but I'm willing to go where the plot takes us.
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Feb 6, 2012 4:21 PM

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After this episode, I can say that Yuji is still the same person in a way, like what Yoshida said. He does seem to honesty want to do what he says and doesn't seem to be hiding anymore important details. That's good and all but I am still gunna stick with Shana's side. Tanaka opening his eyes, what a rare occasion lol. It was great seeing those three talk like that, so peaceful and calm, it was just like the past.

Final fight between the two is approaching fast, damn these 17 episodes sure went by quick. Every episode this season has been fantastic and well paced. I am really loving this season, always something interesting and epic going on.
 
Feb 6, 2012 9:56 PM

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The ending of this episode was unexpectedly awesome.
 
Feb 7, 2012 2:29 AM

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game8910 said:
InfiniteDestiny said:


Your view on Flame Haze's and humans was interesting; so would you say that distaste is jealousy? since humans (well most anyway) have the lives Flame Hazes have lost and can never regain, even an ordinary life might appease to a Flame Haze, yet since they can't have it they hate them for it? I suppose Margery just gave off a bad example, her killing that little Flame Haze last season didn't help her cause either; it just appears that they are truly selfish; like they forgot what it means to be human (don't misunderstand, humans can be SELFISH as hell, but what i meant was other things such as emotions and such).


I think you misunderstood, I didnt say they were jealous. The reasons why a flame haze would look down upon a tomogara would come from the hatred they harbour for them in general. I mean they became flame hazes BECAUSE their kind destroyed things important to them as humans. Its like early Margery who went around killing all denizens due to her hatred. The poor flame haze that died last season was pretty much used as a decon that allowed Synoday and Margery to retreat...she was not going to let some kid put her life in dander before getting her revenge.



I love reading these long discussions, I hope you don’t mind. But I have a question that’s been bugging me since I started watching Shakugan no Shana (I started watching is in dub for the first season and have as of yet not seen the first season subbed- so I might have missed it.
As I said, I’ve been wondering about this for a while now and the part of the discussion I quoted above made me think of it again.
Since it seems to be fairly mandatory for a Flame Haze to be created because of the reasons stated above, how did Shana become one? She seems to have grown up” being raised by Wilhelmina -(Mostly)- and I don’t ever remember it being stated HOW she became one. Likewise, Wilhelmina seems to be a mystery in that respect.

Neither seems to have been harboring the same kind of hatred/distain as most flame hazes. They dislive the denizens as most do- but it seems different- Like they were told to fight against these beings and trained to think about them a certain way. But neither seems to really hold a personal reason (As far as I can see) for hating them. And to an extent, Shana has never seemed to hate anyone per-say, -(in my opinion anyway).
It’s like it’s her job to feel this way and to kill them, so she does. (Hope I’m making sense I’m tired ^^; )

Has it been said in the manga or light novels how she became a flame haze?
I mean.... was she human or born a flame haze? If so, who were her parents/creators?
Most flame hazes seem to maintain their anger, hatred and memories of their death, and the life they had as a human before that (I’m going by what I’ve seen from Margery and one or 2 other’s as the series has progressed mind you).
Sorry if this question seems out of place, but I had to ask after seeing your comments. Please put your answer in a spoiler tag or contact me on my profile so that no one gets angry at being spoiled. I’d just really like to know...
 
Feb 7, 2012 3:14 AM
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windeen-windy said:

Has it been said in the manga or light novels how she became a flame haze?
I mean.... was she human or born a flame haze? If so, who were her parents/creators?

 
Feb 7, 2012 9:01 AM

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Episodes 17, too much talking, no action scene.. -_-

Waiting again for the next episodes.. XD
 
Feb 7, 2012 7:45 PM

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Awesome EPISODE! Yuuji's side of the argument seems justified. You need sacrifices in war. And in war no one ever listens to reason; let alone to the 'other side' unless they win. I really don't understand why the Flame Haze's HAVE to fight and what even started this whole WAR between Flame Haze and Tomagara. To me to the tomagarra seem like prey for the Flame Hazes and only fight to survive as they need the power of existance to live.
Tomagara seem like animals in the wild which need to feed to survive but are locked in a cage
Flame Haze seem like hunters which are just out there to kill because they think these 'animals' by default want to kill them; And at the same don't want to release them into a safe location where they are completely disparate from each other because of the fact that they still might kill SOMEONE on the way


 
Feb 8, 2012 12:39 AM

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Am I the only one that kind of hopes that all the main characters just die or that's what will happen? Also, am I the only one who thinks that Yoshida will die as well?
 
Feb 8, 2012 3:29 AM

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SolidSnakeUS said:
Am I the only one that kind of hopes that all the main characters just die or that's what will happen? Also, am I the only one who thinks that Yoshida will die as well?


I only hope Yoshida will die, but alas i do not see that happening....Although if i'm not mistaken Yoshida has to be sacrificed for Yuji's plan to continue. Anyway, i think it would be interesting if something happened, and Shana ended up having to materialize Alastor, and Yuji having to sacrifice something to save her too (Even though the chance of summoning Alastor killing Shana is relatively low considering season one).

I've been back and forth this whole season, siding with denizens then the flame haze, etc. It's really annoying that Shana and Yuji have to keep fighting each other =/....And i'll never forgive that Nun for killing Decarabia, he's one of my favorite characters this season, and it sucked to see him killed off.

I liked the episode, but i really dislike Yoshida is getting some screen time now.....Was so happy because this season she barely got any..../sigh, guess it's ok though since Yuji and Shana already confessed to each other.

Also someone stated that Shana finally said she loved Yuji....That statement confused me seeing as it was Yuji we were waiting on, we've known Shana loved Yuji since season one. Unless you mean her confessing to Yuji, then i see what you mean.
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Feb 8, 2012 3:44 PM

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Summon Pheles and stop pussyfooting around it... once you come to your senses that is.
 
Feb 8, 2012 6:41 PM
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Mmm ... delicious Chiara.
 
Feb 8, 2012 6:45 PM

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yoshida you are a FUCKING IDIOT

im calling it now, she dies, i hope to god she does PLEASE GOD LET HER DIE

Immahnoob said:
Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit,

tokiyashiro said:

Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me

 
Feb 9, 2012 12:31 AM

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DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
yoshida you are a FUCKING IDIOT

im calling it now, she dies, i hope to god she does PLEASE GOD LET HER DIE


I agree
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Feb 12, 2012 4:34 AM

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reve said:
windeen-windy said:

Has it been said in the manga or light novels how she became a flame haze?
I mean.... was she human or born a flame haze? If so, who were her parents/creators?



Thank you for answering....
 
Feb 12, 2012 6:16 AM
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windeen-windy said:


Thank you for answering....

no problems

also
 
Feb 12, 2012 4:22 PM

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I Really like the 3rd season but this episode just shouted @ me " PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE ! " .
I totally dont understand why he never really spoke to Shana and why he suddenly disappears @ the end of season 2. I mean, come on , its just so idiotically to think " Hmmm, they will probably not understand me so lets just start and fight all of them." .
I hope he gets some kind of mind controlled otherwise hes just narrow-minded and really selfish.
Its like the question of sustainability in the current world. One say/Sakai : "Lets push the problems further away and let the other generations deal with it " , and the other/Shana say " We should solve the problem now !".
I definitely support Shanas way of thinking .
いのり <3
 
Feb 14, 2012 11:10 PM

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Wow, this was the best episode so far. Why the hell was this not the first episode? Everything was explained nicely. You'd think they would have just done this from the start and the anime wouldn't have been a trainwreck.

Yuji was being more Yuji-like for once and his ideals made sense. The bad guys now come across as the good guys even more than they did before.

Stupid flame hazes, I really hope they lose.

This is what SnS 3 should have been. But it came in 16 episodes too late.
 
Feb 18, 2012 12:11 PM

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Best episode so far in my opinion, next episode things will start.
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page.
 
Feb 20, 2012 12:44 AM

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And this episode is why Yoshida is infinitely better than Shana.
Tanaka totally creaped me out though, opening his eyes so much.
 
Feb 24, 2012 1:49 AM

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Some heavy decisions have been made in this episode. The three remaining "Gods of the Motherland" decided to join Shana. Kazumi decided to follow Yuuji. Tanaka probably decided to abandon what he knew about the truth of the world, and return to ignorance like everyone else uninvolved with Guze.
 
Mar 3, 2012 10:34 AM

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everbody how whants to know how shakugan no shana will end
can look at my profile
onder the yuji and shana picture is a spoiler button
with the detailed story how its gonna happen
if you whant it from the start where the last episode end
just send me a comment ;P ( tell me what do you think of the end)
Modified by Black-Flash, Mar 3, 2012 11:32 AM
 
Mar 20, 2012 11:25 PM
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Man loved this episode.
 
Apr 7, 2012 3:54 PM

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And I thought I couldn't hate Yuji any more than I already did.
 
Jun 22, 2012 6:21 PM

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The three gods of the motherland are finally revealed, nothing much but a bunch of talk, saying they will join in the battle against the god of creation.


Well i have to say episode 17 was great, it helped clear up so much god damn confusion bout the creation of xanudu the replica world and yuji's entire reasoning and ideal's are so much more sensible then the flame haze's. I mean my god i am almost looking at the other side of the spectrum as if the flame haze are now the enimies and that the tomagara and the trinity members are the good guys lol.


It was no surprise to me why Yoshida wanted to leave with yuji. That cliff hanger at the end was rather surprising, all of the trinity members standing just outside the school with the big seirieden floating high above.



 
Aug 14, 2012 8:49 AM

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Yuji is awesome. As is the God of Creation - he is allowing Yuji to carry out his plan and act as himself as much as he wishes. The two have equal goals and the fact that Yuji is a mere human doesn't come into the independence the God of Creation allows him.

But I'm annoyed Yoshida will be in it again.
"We're nothing more than fools and whores with sad highs"
 
Aug 20, 2012 11:34 PM

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DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
yoshida you are a FUCKING IDIOT

im calling it now, she dies, i hope to god she does PLEASE GOD LET HER DIE


Hell yeah
 
Nov 15, 2012 8:06 PM

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pillsbury15 said:
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
yoshida you are a FUCKING IDIOT

im calling it now, she dies, i hope to god she does PLEASE GOD LET HER DIE


Hell yeah


not only i want her dead but i want her to see Yuji and Shana kiss with tongue action he he he he...heeeeeh.. >:D~ feel that rejection and bonds between those two. She needs to focus on Ike more

I'm still puzzled which one to root for Team Yuji or Team Shana -.- both seems like a good guys side but i have this feeling that Flame haze sort of looks like the bad guys here in season 3 but i dunno.
 
Dec 23, 2012 11:26 AM

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Okay the annoying bitch Yoshida is back and she's on Yuji's side... again. Will you please die, Yoshida?


 
Mar 20, 2013 2:25 PM

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LokiPunisher said:
I Really like the 3rd season but this episode just shouted @ me " PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE ! " .
I totally dont understand why he never really spoke to Shana and why he suddenly disappears @ the end of season 2. I mean, come on , its just so idiotically to think " Hmmm, they will probably not understand me so lets just start and fight all of them." .
I hope he gets some kind of mind controlled otherwise hes just narrow-minded and really selfish.
Its like the question of sustainability in the current world. One say/Sakai : "Lets push the problems further away and let the other generations deal with it " , and the other/Shana say " We should solve the problem now !".
I definitely support Shanas way of thinking .


did u not hear Yuuji explanation??? in other word he say'd that Shana wold never listen to him, let me explain how i see it, shana is like this religious fools who rise'd her, sees only black & white, cause they taught her that Snake god's/monster side are evil & they are good monster hunters, & never considers that this teachings mite be wrong!!! that's why war is inevitable, cause they wold never listen to Snake god's/monster side, it seem i pay more attention while watching then u do

metaphor: Devil mite be nicer then the old story's say!!! u never know!!! u cant believe old story's made up bi ancient people, u need to see it urself, what is truth & what is not!!!
 
Mar 20, 2013 2:38 PM

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Linkark07 said:
Back when I saw Shana 1 and 2, I thought the Flame Hazes were the good guys and the tomogara the bad guys. Now, all of it have changed. Honestly, each episode the Flame Hazes appear to be more villains in my eyes.

Why can't they just accept that the Tomogara go to Xanadu?; why can't they at least have a conversation with Yuuji/Snake of the Festival?, only fighting, fighting and pointless deaths.

And the 3 new gods of this episode were boring and dull, like the nun.


ur kind of right, but correct answer is that there are no villains in this season, its just Hazes side is full of dumb people & that's all!!!
 
Mar 20, 2013 2:46 PM

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Arkychan said:
This pretty much sums up what i feel ( hope it doesnt spoil anything)


Sure they have every right to fear this insane plan the snake/yuji has. They've been fighting for so long that they see no other way. Thats why yuji is practically an extremist right now. And i feel this extremist to be just.


that spoiler is good explanation
 
Sep 9, 2013 5:14 AM

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Finally a good episode! Yoshida is so much better this season than Shana, i just hate her in this ._.
 
Sep 29, 2013 3:51 PM

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Put it this way. Say you have been fighting what you think are heartless monsters for centuries who have been killing your family and friends, and then suddenly the leader of these monsters gives you an offer that sounds too good to be true, of course they think it will be. Yuji isn't a Flame Haze, and hence isn't having his thought clouded by the hatred that most other Flame Hazes do.
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Oct 31, 2013 10:17 AM

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Welp, I am rooting on Yuji in the fight, hope he can get through to Shana.
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Dec 6, 2013 9:32 AM
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This episode was leagues better than the previous two. We finally get to hear Yuji elaborate more on the details of his plan.

I really like how they directed the episode by having Yuji explain the story to Tanaka and Yoshida. It didn't feel like they were forcing the information or spoon feeding it to the audience.

Yuji's plan is bold and it'll change the entire world for the better. Unfortunately, change isn't what the Flame Haze's are looking for so naturally this is going to clash with the "supposed" goal of restoring the world's balance.
 
Dec 24, 2013 10:32 PM

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Hated on Yoshida for 2 seasons and now liking her way more than Shana because she actually tries to understand what Yuji is doing.

Flame Haze still not trusting tomogara. The female in the four gods says that they must stop the inevitable disaster of the new world, but why would they even care, it won't be them who are living in it ffs. Just let the MC make his world so he can prove all the flame haze wrong and make them lose their "jobs".

Yuji's pretty much the good guy while the haze are the villains. Better not be trolled later on and say that Yuji was lying the entire time.
 
Apr 7, 2014 7:52 PM

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HOLY SHIT HIGHLIGHT OF THE EPISODE : TANAKA OPENED HIS EYES!!! I'm totally bluffed, I can now die satisfied.

On a more serious note, it was a really interresting episode. Though, even after all that, I still can say for sure that it was Yuuji that was talking for all that he said xD
Maybe I'm too skeptic, I don't know.

Shit, I'm kinda scared. Will he ask her to sacrifice and call Pheles? That would be dark.

I thought the negociation with Shana between the Earth Gods would be more difficult, it went rather well :P

ninja88880 said:
Flame Haze still not trusting tomogara. The female in the four gods says that they must stop the inevitable disaster of the new world, but why would they even care, it won't be them who are living in it ffs. Just let the MC make his world so he can prove all the flame haze wrong and make them lose their "jobs".


From what I understood, it would also affect their world. It would be pretty much like a time bomb that know one could guess when it would explode. Yuuji may say that it is too separated world, but we saw that first, he was able to go in from the actual human world and that the earthquake that happened while he was in the other dimension also affected the human world.

But would leaving the situation as it actually is a better solution? I'm not sure myself. A lot of people have suffered because of the conflict between the Flame Hazes and the Tomogara. Yuuji plan is interresting, but the fact that it may have a big impact in the future is disturbing. It's like global warming, it doesn't affect us right now in our everyday life, but if we continue destroying our planet without giving a fuck, our future generation may be very affected by unconsciousness.
Modified by minouneetzoe, Apr 7, 2014 7:59 PM
«Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.»
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Jun 17, 2014 11:42 AM

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Well Tanaka fcked my mind at the end
 
Jul 5, 2014 10:37 PM
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Does anyone know who speaks from the cellar at outlaws pub in the episode. Watched the whole series and dont remember this ever being explained.
 
Sep 29, 2014 4:18 PM

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Okay so seems like so many people agree with Yuji's view and not the Flame Haze but that doesn't make any sense to me. Sure on the new world they will have free flowing energy so humans wont need to be attacked and all.

But that will NEVER work.

Think about it in terms of the real world we live in today. We have plenty of food, water, resources. Yet some people do not. Humans can and should get along but there is still crime. There are numerous wars going on around the world as we speak. The Tomogara we have seen, for the most part, are inherently evil. Yes they need to feed to survive (I believe) but there is no compassion or sympathy. Why do they want humans to be on their new world? They never showed a sense of wanting to work together with them, they just are used to a world where there are humans.

Basically all this means is harmony can not be maintained and balance will eventually by shifted. I don't get how that interlinks with the world they live in right now because the other one will have free flowing energy, but there is no way they can live in peace for eternity, it is just impossible for any civilization to do that.

So, I do side with the Flame Haze. Sweeping the issues under the rug for the time being is not an answer. Because in the end, the problem will have to be faced. Although the Flame Haze don't have a concrete solution to the worlds problems, Shana can't rely on the hope that the other wold will work out, because her cause and purpose is to ensure balance being maintained.

Long post, but this is what I get out of it at least... I'm sure I'm missing some information because I did have a hard time completely understanding the situations in the story but I'm going to move on to the next episode instead of sit on the forums and read everyone's opinions lol, I'm sure we will all see the answer by the end of the show
 
Oct 28, 2014 8:36 AM

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Tanaka's eyes were the biggest revelation.
 
Dec 4, 2014 6:34 AM
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Odd...

For some reason i don't want Yoshida to die anymore

now its switched to shana, and all flame haze.

in any event they can't even clearly define what would happen, or even if something is going to happen.

But even so doesn't that mean its going to eventually happen to the current earth anyway? They are still eating power of existence and will continue to do so
 
Jan 7, 2015 1:21 PM

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Finally, Yuji laid it all out, and I like how we have come full circle with him and the impact that one girl's disappearance had on him at the very beginning of S1.

I'm not a big risk taker myself, so I can understand where the Flame Hazes are coming from. As nice as Yuji's plan sounds, even he admits he doesn't know exactly what the future holds and those kinds of uncertainties are unnerving. As minouneetzoe mentioned above, this could potentially turn into a time bomb with nobody knowing when it will explode.

Or not...

His idea isn't a bad one, and there are good intentions behind it, but a solid contingency plan needs to be put into place for if and when these uncertainties finally rear their ugly heads. This would actually be the opportunity for both sides to collaborate, but unfortunately that's not likely to happen.

Meh... I want Yuji's optimism to pay off, but I really don't know what to expect or think anymore.
 
Mar 31, 2015 2:22 AM

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Great episode. This season is by far the best. I read through the first discussions about which side is "right" or "wrong" with their motivations. It made me like this season even more. The side that we're supposed to rooting for is flawed and tied up with old grudges. This isn't just a simple good vs. evil war. There is a lot more grey area to it, and I love that. It's great when you're torn about what side to root for.
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Jun 15, 2017 5:46 PM

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Yoshida went also over to the dark side or was it the good side?

I wonder for what matter Yuji needs her help.
Kokoro did nothing wrong.

 
Jul 18, 2017 5:00 PM
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Looks like all dissenters on Yuji side are to be killed. Is that what the good side does?
 
Jun 21, 7:02 AM

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@InfiniteDestiny

i agree cause with their actions they already proven ur point, they wouln't have lustened him,, they had no intentions of negotiations


BXRBudda said:
game8910 said:


You mention that war is fought in order to gain, I believe this only applies to the side that starts the conflict, which in this case it would be Bal Masque. In theory flame hazes are not fighting to gain anything, thats not what "protecting" means (of course this is "flame hazes" as defined by their official role). Many Flame Hazes are bitter and angry people with legitimate reasons to hate denizes so for them to look down on them as you say sounds reasonable. Its not like they are innocent and deserve our sympathy either.

As for Sophie, well all I could say is that she is old fashioned I guess...im not going to defend her. However if you really think about it, you say they could try to talk about it and not be fighting each other but has Yuji really even given them the chance to do so? The only person Yuji ever tried to talk into joining him was Shana in episode 4, and even then he didnt ask for her input. Bal Masque started attacking Outlaw bases even before Yuji and the Snake merged...no, Bal Masque does NOT want to talk things over with anyone, they all hellbent on achieving their ambition and crush anyone that opposes it.

So I will now try to explain 1 more time why I think their reasons for fighting are legitimate.

This is how I see it, Flame Hazes are branded as "protectors of the balance" (regardless of what their real intentions are). The reason Shana still wishes to stop Yuji's plan is as already explained to prevent a disaster that "could" potentially throw every world into an even greater chaos than before. For the sake of trying to enforce the idea lets say Yuji does manage to forever keep Xanadu's peace and tomogaras never eat humans again and nothing bad ever happens again. In such a situation then credit to him, Flame Hazes really wont be needed again. Now lets assume Yuji cant prevent other denizes from consuming humans, even if they dont have the need to do so, even if Xanadu has a free flowing stream of PoE. Yuji and the snake may create an utopia that can last aeons, but in reality, even as a god, an eternal utopia is something that sounds impossible even as I type it out. Nothing can truly last for all eternity no matter what it is.

Is it better to just keep things the way they are? Seeing how I actually do wish for Yuji's plan to succeed I think I dont need to answer this. However as a Flame Haze, as someone that is supposed to prevent disasters from happening, what would they do if a catastrophe does happen and they are suddenly unable to do anything about it? As protectors of the world they would have failed their mission, as people that should have prevented this from happening, no matter how unlikely or how far afar it may happen. As Centerhill mentioned once everyone leaves for Xanadu no one will be able to know what they will do.


Like I mentioned before, in a real world scenario, even if you have no need to do something it doesnt mean that there wont eventually be some kind of lunatic that will attempt something crazy. Even if Xanadu is heavily regulated, just like water eventually forms canyons drop by drop, I do not believe that this is a paradise that can last for all eternity (but I do still want to see it).

GODDAMN THIS TOOK LONG TO WRITE, its hard to argue for the sake of the opposing side...


Amen!! I would like to that that aeons are probably pretty short compared to the life span of the Denizens and it's only a matter of time before that energy runs our or some monomaniac decides to wage war against Yuji. . I just wonder how Yuji has managed to make a world that has seemingly unlimited energy or atleast alot of it.


game8910 said:
InfiniteDestiny said:

Well you most likely have said it before but could you explain to me how it is so well founded? Because lets say worse comes to worse, and the Denizens commit all kinds of reckless acts in Xanadu like on Earth and causes unbalance (even though they said it would take thousands of years...) wouldn't it be better to try to maintain that scenario through order than fight a war for no reason? War is considered success when at the end of it all you gain something from it right? you are fighting for something aside from pride or perhaps sadistic battle tendencies what are the Flame Haze's fighting for anymore? Another key thing was actually mentioned by a Flame Haze (forget who) Flame Hazes fight for their own (selfish) reasons, like Margery's revenge and such, they have no such noble desires as protecting humans, it has been seen many times that they view them as inferior beings even though they were once human...

Also the main reason i can't sympathize with the Flame Hazes doesn't even have to do with the plan per say, it pertains to the fact that they are against the very concept of peace; when Yuji was announcing his order; the stupid nun did nothing but put her head down with closed eyes and completely shut it out.. i mean its not even worth hearing out? Its like this episode when Tanaka asked why Yuji simply couldn't talk to Shana.. if she was being reasonable then perhaps she would look at both sides thus making a conversation possible but nooo...also she hasn't even given a clear cut reason for fighting all season long.


You mention that war is fought in order to gain, I believe this only applies to the side that starts the conflict, which in this case it would be Bal Masque. In theory flame hazes are not fighting to gain anything, thats not what "protecting" means (of course this is "flame hazes" as defined by their official role). Many Flame Hazes are bitter and angry people with legitimate reasons to hate denizes so for them to look down on them as you say sounds reasonable. Its not like they are innocent and deserve our sympathy either.

As for Sophie, well all I could say is that she is old fashioned I guess...im not going to defend her. However if you really think about it, you say they could try to talk about it and not be fighting each other but has Yuji really even given them the chance to do so? The only person Yuji ever tried to talk into joining him was Shana in episode 4, and even then he didnt ask for her input. Bal Masque started attacking Outlaw bases even before Yuji and the Snake merged...no, Bal Masque does NOT want to talk things over with anyone, they all hellbent on achieving their ambition and crush anyone that opposes it.

So I will now try to explain 1 more time why I think their reasons for fighting are legitimate.

This is how I see it, Flame Hazes are branded as "protectors of the balance" (regardless of what their real intentions are). The reason Shana still wishes to stop Yuji's plan is as already explained to prevent a disaster that "could" potentially throw every world into an even greater chaos than before. For the sake of trying to enforce the idea lets say Yuji does manage to forever keep Xanadu's peace and tomogaras never eat humans again and nothing bad ever happens again. In such a situation then credit to him, Flame Hazes really wont be needed again. Now lets assume Yuji cant prevent other denizes from consuming humans, even if they dont have the need to do so, even if Xanadu has a free flowing stream of PoE. Yuji and the snake may create an utopia that can last aeons, but in reality, even as a god, an eternal utopia is something that sounds impossible even as I type it out. Nothing can truly last for all eternity no matter what it is.

Is it better to just keep things the way they are? Seeing how I actually do wish for Yuji's plan to succeed I think I dont need to answer this. However as a Flame Haze, as someone that is supposed to prevent disasters from happening, what would they do if a catastrophe does happen and they are suddenly unable to do anything about it? As protectors of the world they would have failed their mission, as people that should have prevented this from happening, no matter how unlikely or how far afar it may happen. As Centerhill mentioned once everyone leaves for Xanadu no one will be able to know what they will do.

InfiniteDestiny said:

However... the big difference which is the reason many side against the Flame Hazes's like you mentioned on MAL is because it will have free flowing existence, there will be no need to consume humans, it would be like stealing food when you got it for free, it would make no sense.

Like I mentioned before, in a real world scenario, even if you have no need to do something it doesnt mean that there wont eventually be some kind of lunatic that will attempt something crazy. Even if Xanadu is heavily regulated, just like water eventually forms canyons drop by drop, I do not believe that this is a paradise that can last for all eternity (but I do still want to see it).

GODDAMN THIS TOOK LONG TO WRITE, its hard to argue for the sake of the opposing side...



they already proved that they wouldn't have listened to him and this could had ruin hes plan cause they had more force back then

he mentioned limitless flow of power of existance, and i think it has sonething to do with midnight lost child treasure tool

Modified by Sugram22, Jun 21, 7:32 AM
 
Jun 21, 7:33 AM

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Posts: 4334
awrything goes as snake plans awry loss and win so if u see a loss know that it was planned, thats what i mean
 
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