| painuappuru what difference does it make, it's the same word anyway. |
MotsuCQ said: That's some "very nice" attitude that guy has. Sounds like your typical "I know more than you so obviously I'm right and you are wrong" kind of translator.I'd go with Remon. See an explanation here under "Speculation 2": http://8ths.in/2012/01/20/ano-natsu-de-matteru-ep12-tl-notes-observations/ |
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Leon-Gun said: MotsuCQ said: That's some "very nice" attitude that guy has. Sounds like your typical "I know more than you so obviously I'm right and you are wrong" kind of translator.I'd go with Remon. See an explanation here under "Speculation 2": http://8ths.in/2012/01/20/ano-natsu-de-matteru-ep12-tl-notes-observations/ I even provided three legitimate reasons why it's "Remon". That's more explanation than any other translator is willing to offer for any series. And trust me when I say viewers should have no say in how things should be translated. It's like a driver telling an engineer how cars should be designed. "Good design (air resistance, durability, ease of manufacturing etc)" and "Looks cool" are entirely different things. Ideally, you would want both, but "Good design" is what any self-respecting engineer would pick if he had to, just like "good translation". |
8thSinJan 25, 2012 5:56 PM
| hmmm... since the west borrowed the word from the east.I don't see why people(from the west) don't call it Lemon .The Japan also borrow it from China as well(same as the west). If the Japan borrow English name from the west, then should we follow Japanese way of spelling as well?... Anyway, I will call it Lemon anyway .I don't think its strange.I don't really care if people call it Remon/Raymond as well. I bet people are still arguing about the Holo and Horo matter lol |
MorningGloryJan 25, 2012 7:12 PM
MorningGlory said: hmmm... since the west borrowed the word from the east.I don't see why people(from the west) don't call it Lemon .The Japan also borrow it from China as well(same as the west). If the Japan borrow English name from the west, then should we follow Japanese way of spelling as well?... The fact that the name originated from China is just a double-whammy to kanji. Anything in written in katakana using English/Western romanization is pretty standard (like "John Titor" in Steins;Gate). In this case, the name is kanji. As an exception, there are cases where Western romanization is used despite kanji name. For example, "Eikoku" (England) is a location name derived from Chinese as well and are written in kanji. But that word in China was derived from English (originated from the West). So despite it being a kanji location name, 99%+ of translators would still translate it as "England" rather than "Eikoku". Written words (signs) like "Itaria" in kanji are usually changed to "Italy" or "Italia" too. And although CR does break less major TL conventions from time to time, had enough common sense (for translators) to keep "Remon" in this case. |
MorningGlory said: Anyway, I will call it Lemon anyway .I don't think its strange.I don't really care if people call it Remon/Raymond as well. I bet people are still arguing about the Holo and Horo matter lol You can call the characters whatever you want. Hell, people called Kanba "red" in Penguindrum. But any translation with "Lemon" for the name is technically wrong. As for Holo/Horo... It's a made up name in katakana and not a Japanese name (since it's set in the West too), it's anyone's guess. Personally, I think "Holo" is a more likely name than "Horo" if it's a Western name. |
| I guess you saying that MAL translate it wrongly,but I don't think people will correct it anyway. I think it doesn't really matter as long as people doesn't mistaken the meaning of Lemon(people) and Lemon(fruit). |
MorningGlory said: I guess you saying that MAL translate it wrongly,but I don't think people will correct it anyway. I think it doesn't really matter as long as people doesn't mistaken the meaning of Lemon(people) and Lemon(fruit). Well, as an anime information site, I think they should be taking the official romanization "Remon" before any preference or translation convention issues -_-; http://www.ichika-ichika.com/character.html I guess I forgot, that was the 4th and perhaps the easiest way to justify the spelling lol |
8thSinJan 25, 2012 9:00 PM
| lol, the Japanese spell it Remon as well . Well, they doesn't have the word "L" in their vocabulary anyway.If not,Rinon will became Linon as well . |
| remon or lemon it doesnt really matter |
| ^ it doesn't =p but translator that get sue does matter to them lol |
| It's Lemon... i heard that japanese don't have "L" in their alphabet or whatever and i notice that they usually have troubles pronouncing the letter L |
| ahahaha, uhm.. excuse me.. It's probably Lemon cause it's similar to the character in Onegai Teacher Onegai T → Ichigo (Strawberry) Ano natsu de matteru→ Remon (Lemon) Both loli character is voice by the same seiyuu (tamura yukari) anyway, even the way she laugh is the same "Ufufufufufu~" |
piperz said: It's Lemon... i heard that japanese don't have "L" in their alphabet or whatever and i notice that they usually have troubles pronouncing the letter L It still could be Remon, not Lemon as they may actually be trying to say Remon. I prefer it be Remon in the subs, because I think Lemon is too odd of a name. |
| Haha oh wow this thread. l/r and fruit names both get me fired up but alas, I need to go to bed. You fight the good fight, 8th. Changed it back to Remon. |
| Haha. I used to nag a lot when I was young. It's so good to be young. Keep them coming. I am enjoying my lunch break here. /nom /nom. :D |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
| I have a friend called Remon. he is muscular, big and have a dreadly chest hair just saiyan |
| The link posted above pretty much nails it. Either way, her name means Lemon. So even if its in Katakana, it would still be Remon, the only difference is that her name would be Lemon in English. Right now her name is Lemon in Japanese. |
seishi-sama said: painuappuru what difference does it make, it's the same word anyway. +1 Don't know why this bothers people so much. id said: ahahaha, uhm.. excuse me.. It's probably Lemon cause it's similar to the character in Onegai Teacher Onegai T → Ichigo (Strawberry) Ano natsu de matteru→ Remon (Lemon) Both loli character is voice by the same seiyuu (tamura yukari) anyway, even the way she laugh is the same "Ufufufufufu~" Yeah but do translators put Ichigo's name as Strawberry when they sub? No, they leave it as Ichigo because putting Strawberry as his name would be stupid. FYI, Remon's name 「檸檬」 is written in Chinese kanji which ironically also means Lemon anyway so it doesn't matter. |
WhaleCostumeJan 31, 2012 2:03 PM
| Lemon or Remon, what ever.... But Remon sounds natural for a name.... |
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| I think that the official site (http://www.ichika-ichika.com/character.html) listing it as Remon is the definitive word on this topic... This is a bad as the Holo/Horo junk. People persist calling her Horo even after she clearly signed her name H O L O in the show. The arrogance of the fan-sub elitists knows no bounds... |
Now blogging at TheZenOf Mysterious Girlfriend X Anime Fan Club - It's about more than drool! Tari Tari Fan Club - Hyouka Fan Club - Chitanda Eru Fans Club~ |
| Remon/Lemon (whatever the correct spelling is) is too funny!! But what's up with underage alchohols... (the drink seems like cocktails) |
tsubasaloverFeb 24, 2012 4:26 AM
I ♥ Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!! |
| Phonetically L and R are the same in Japanese. No matter how you translate lemon to Japanese it's going to come out sounding like remon. Even the kanji for the name is translated to lemon with an L not an R. The kicker is China and Japan are borrowing the word lemon from English. Spelling her name as Lemon wouldn't be changing or translating her name, it would be spelling her name correctly in English. |
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| Holo or Horo. |
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Anime_Name said: Phonetically L and R are the same in Japanese. No matter how you translate lemon to Japanese it's going to come out sounding like remon. Even the kanji for the name is translated to lemon with an L not an R. The kicker is China and Japan are borrowing the word lemon from English. Spelling her name as Lemon wouldn't be changing or translating her name, it would be spelling her name correctly in English. Actually, it is more likely that the origin of the word is from China through the middle east. The exact origin of the lemon tree is unknown, but it is suspected to be southern Asia (India, Bhurma, China). The word lemon in English has its roots in either the Arabic or Persian language, or both, since they probably got the word from the Chinese when they brought the fruit west. That doesn't change the fact that the web-site spells it Remon, making that the correct spelling. In general, names are not translated into the vernacular, but left as they are. For instance, the character from Onegai Teacher named Morino Ichigo is not referred to as Morino Strawberry, but the direct translation of Ichigo is Strawberry. |
Now blogging at TheZenOf Mysterious Girlfriend X Anime Fan Club - It's about more than drool! Tari Tari Fan Club - Hyouka Fan Club - Chitanda Eru Fans Club~ |
zensunni said: Anime_Name said: Phonetically L and R are the same in Japanese. No matter how you translate lemon to Japanese it's going to come out sounding like remon. Even the kanji for the name is translated to lemon with an L not an R. The kicker is China and Japan are borrowing the word lemon from English. Spelling her name as Lemon wouldn't be changing or translating her name, it would be spelling her name correctly in English. Actually, it is more likely that the origin of the word is from China through the middle east. The exact origin of the lemon tree is unknown, but it is suspected to be southern Asia (India, Bhurma, China). The word lemon in English has its roots in either the Arabic or Persian language, or both, since they probably got the word from the Chinese when they brought the fruit west. That doesn't change the fact that the web-site spells it Remon, making that the correct spelling. In general, names are not translated into the vernacular, but left as they are. For instance, the character from Onegai Teacher named Morino Ichigo is not referred to as Morino Strawberry, but the direct translation of Ichigo is Strawberry. I am not calling for a translation of the name. 檸檬 is kanji for Lemon, "Remon" is an incorrect transliteration because of bad phonetic spelling. 檸檬 is pronounced "remon" and "jing meng" both sound like lemon in their respective languages. Under Hepburn Romanization of loanwords, 檸檬 is a loanword, the spelling reverts to the original or traditional spelling - Baru becomes ball whether it refers to an object or proper name. |
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Anime_Name said: zensunni said: Anime_Name said: Phonetically L and R are the same in Japanese. No matter how you translate lemon to Japanese it's going to come out sounding like remon. Even the kanji for the name is translated to lemon with an L not an R. The kicker is China and Japan are borrowing the word lemon from English. Spelling her name as Lemon wouldn't be changing or translating her name, it would be spelling her name correctly in English. Actually, it is more likely that the origin of the word is from China through the middle east. The exact origin of the lemon tree is unknown, but it is suspected to be southern Asia (India, Bhurma, China). The word lemon in English has its roots in either the Arabic or Persian language, or both, since they probably got the word from the Chinese when they brought the fruit west. That doesn't change the fact that the web-site spells it Remon, making that the correct spelling. In general, names are not translated into the vernacular, but left as they are. For instance, the character from Onegai Teacher named Morino Ichigo is not referred to as Morino Strawberry, but the direct translation of Ichigo is Strawberry. I am not calling for a translation of the name. 檸檬 is kanji for Lemon, "Remon" is an incorrect transliteration because of bad phonetic spelling. 檸檬 is pronounced "remon" and "jing meng" both sound like lemon in their respective languages. Under Hepburn Romanization of loanwords, 檸檬 is a loanword, the spelling reverts to the original or traditional spelling - Baru becomes ball whether it refers to an object or proper name. It is a lone word from Chinese, though, not English. So it should be jing meng, not lemon. Why would the phonetic spelling be something that is not what the Japanese people say? The romanji form of the word is Remon everywhere I have looked, including a site on the history and usage of the fruit, which has the word translated into 88 different languages. (And yes, the kanji the creators use for the name are exactly the same as the Chinese characters, since it is a Chinese import, like much of the Japanese vocabulary.) So, basically, you are saying that the creators of the anime and all of the other places that romanize that particular set of kanji are wrong? Sure... I'll buy that! To look at it another way, the English word comes from Arabic. In French and many other western languages the fruit is called citron or something similar. So, where did the Arabic word come from? Lets see, since the fruit was introduced into the Mediteranian region around the start of the A.D. period, they probably asked the people from central asia that they got them from what the fruit was called. The answer, jeng meng, sounded like lemon to them, so that is what they called it. Your assumption is that Lemon is the correct word and that the silly people that borrowed it can't quite pronounce it right, so it should be translated back to the "correct" word. It is more likely the other way around, the silly people that borrowed the fruit from central asia couldn't pronounce the name of the fruit correctly, so they called it lemon. |
zensunniFeb 24, 2012 10:22 PM
Now blogging at TheZenOf Mysterious Girlfriend X Anime Fan Club - It's about more than drool! Tari Tari Fan Club - Hyouka Fan Club - Chitanda Eru Fans Club~ |
| L and R are kinda similar in japanese. So yeah, it kinda counts as one.. |
"Your taste is shit cause you like what I hate. Believe me I have 1000 cartoons that I rated with less than 5."  |
| Remember Death Note ^__^ L or R (Eru) |
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| I'm trying REALLY hard to think about something I care less about. What difference does it make? They are interchangeable in Japanese. Pick one you like and stick to it. |
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zensunni said: It is a lone word from Chinese, though, not English. So it should be jing meng, not lemon. It's an English loanword by way of China, which is why it has kanji. "Jing meng" sounds like "lemon" when pronounced because it is a word from English just transliterated into Chinese. Why would the phonetic spelling be something that is not what the Japanese people say? I've never said the phonetic spelling should not be what the Japanese say. What I did say was that phonetic spelling has lower precedence when you are translating and romanizing sounds with the Hepburn system. The romanji form of the word is Remon everywhere I have looked, including a site on the history and usage of the fruit, which has the word translated into 88 different languages. Your everywhere seems limited to the places that happen to agree with you. Pics: This site has a lot of lemon products and there's some even spelled as the Italian, "limone". http://global.rakuten.com/en/search?k=OKINAWA&tl=408310&f=1 So, basically, you are saying that the creators of the anime and all of the other places that romanize that particular set of kanji are wrong? Sure... I'll buy that! Anyone trying to translate and convert the sounds into the English alphabet are wrong for leaving not changing remon to lemon. Those who are attempting to be phonetically accurate, still speaking in Japanese, then pronouncing 檸檬(レモン) as remon is correct. Your assumption is that Lemon is the correct word and that the silly people that borrowed it can't quite pronounce it right, so it should be translated back to the "correct" word. It is more likely the other way around, the silly people that borrowed the fruit from central asia couldn't pronounce the name of the fruit correctly, so they called it lemon. My assumption is that when romanizing レモン the correct English spelling is lemon. I think you shouldn't sweat of the true origins of the word because language and nation that probably first named it has long been dead. The relevant information for lemon is that it is a loanword that has an English equivalent so when spelling that loanword out in subtitles meant for English speakers, 'L' in this case is far more fitting then 'R'. |
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