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#1
Jan 16, 2012 3:44 PM
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Yeah, I know episode 11 was a while ago, but I recently just saw it and couldn't help but think the implied sex scene by Keisaku and Margery was really creepy.

OK, Never mind the fact that Keisaku is only like 16 years old, and Margery is a fully grown woman.

When the FUCK did they become so close?

Sorry, I must have missed that...

I always thought that Keisaku had a natural attraction to Margery, because...well, he's a teenager and she's a HOT, Mature woman with a spectacular body.

Seriously, when did Margery share the same attraction?

I just don't see it, it just seems like she's the one that took advantage.


A mature older woman having sex with a 15 or 16 year old boy....that's OK for hentai, but for an anime like Shana it just comes across as super weird and creepy.


BTW, NO ONE would be cheering this if it had been a 16 year old GIRL who had sex with a mature older man.
 
#2
Jan 16, 2012 4:02 PM

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Most people don't really care if a teenage boy has sex with an older women. It's all about body type =l. On the other hand, if Keisaku had the body of a little boy, then it would've been different.

And yeah, the relationship was considerably rushed. It's not normal to transition from errand boy to lover. But hey, it's Shakugan no Shana III, the pinnacle of ingenuity.
 
#3
Jan 16, 2012 4:12 PM
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mdz said:
Most people don't really care if a teenage boy has sex with an older women. It's all about body type =l. On the other hand, if Keisaku had the body of a little boy, then it would've been different.

And yeah, the relationship was considerably rushed. It's not normal to transition from errand boy to lover. But hey, it's Shakugan no Shana III, the pinnacle of ingenuity.

Yeah, I know body types is what rule in anime, but Keisaku doesn't really have the body of an adult man, although like you said, he doesn't look like a little boy either.

The last thing I want to be is the "Moral Police" but it just seemed so weird and out of place to have a sex scene (even though it wasn't actually shown), on an anime like Shana.

If this were a very ecchi anime or if Keisaku and Margery's relationship had been closer/more focused I wouldn't think it was so damn weird/creepy.
 
#4
Jan 16, 2012 6:41 PM

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Not really.

Wasn't Keisuke's and Margery's feelings more or less known from the previous season already? Well, although Margery's might not be romance yet at the time but at least she cared about him.
 
#5
Jan 16, 2012 10:07 PM

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Yeah can't say I find it overly creepy, tbh. Keisuke is just old enough to be out of the inherently creepy age bracket, and he's grown to be pretty mature over the three prior seasons anyway. It's no more creepy than some of my friends having married people over 10 years older than them (hint: not creepy).

As for the relationship's development? It's been pretty subtle over time, but was pretty obvious that both of them had some strong feelings for each other- which they were repressing for different reasons- by the end of season 3. By the time episode 11 came around, it was pretty obvious that Keisuke was over his apprehension, and Margery had plenty of time to reflect on hers.

So no, not really creepy. Maybe a little bit rushed, but sadly the focus in this series is not on these two, so that was inevitable.
 
#6
Jan 16, 2012 10:22 PM
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OK, here's the thing, I personally watch anime for one of two reasons:

#1 A good, entertaining story.

or

#2 A good, entertaining Ecchi regardless of the "plot".

Obviously, Shana goes into the #1 category. Therefore, I expect scenes to make sense and follow what the story has been so far. However, at NO point in this season nor the previous do I see Margery having "feelings" for Keisaku.

Yeah, she might care for him, but I never saw any Romance....why would I???

He's a child in her eyes, I believe she even mentioned that in season 1 when the girl that likes Tanaka became jealous at her, I know that wasn't Keisaku, but at that moment I believed what I thought was obvious....she's using these two guys to accomplish her tasks.

Yeah, along the way she began to care for Keisaku, but it felt more like a friendship not romance.

The scene was definitely rushed, and I personally do find it creepy because regardless of what has been said, I don't believe ANYONE can actually believe that Keisaku has the body of an adult male, he just doesn't.

He still looks like a teenager, maybe 17 at best!
Modified by ichig0fan, Jan 16, 2012 10:25 PM
 
#7
Jan 16, 2012 10:28 PM

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Well I guess it's all subjective then, since I certainly saw a developing romance between the two of them over the course of three seasons.

Sure, he was a child in her eyes. In season 1, and then a little less in season 2, and then even less in season 3 and obviously not at all now in season 4. That's called character development; as Keisaku has matured over the events of three season, Margery's view of him has also changed. In tandem with that, the original feelings they had for each other (not romantic at all) have slowly developed into romantic feelings.

But I guess with how subtle it all was, and considering that they are both supporting characters who's development has had limited screentime, it's all pretty subjective as to just how legitimate this development is.

Also I'm pretty sure no-one believes that Keisaku has the body of an adult male. That would be silly, since he's 16 or 17 right now. Doesn't mean he can't be as mature as an adult now- to an extent- which would be a logical result of all of the serious fucking buisness he's been witness to over three and a half seasons.
 
#8
Jan 17, 2012 5:50 AM
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ichigo03 said:
I don't believe ANYONE can actually believe that Keisaku has the body of an adult male, he just doesn't.

He still looks like a teenager, maybe 17 at best!
Sorry, I didn' see him nude. And OFC Margery has body of 300-old woman. Sex between them is impossible!
Ave Aizen, morituri te salutant!
 
#9
Jan 19, 2012 6:03 PM

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You must be new to anime.
 
Jan 22, 2012 2:33 PM

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Creepy? Hardly. Both Eita and Keisaku had some kind of a crush on Margery from the beginning. Eita moved on when he realized Oga loved him and distanced himself from Margery and Keisaku to be able to live a normal life with Oga (which didn't work out as he planned it). Keisaku on the other hand developed real feelings towards Margery from that crush, and decided to support her with everything he got. That's why he joined Outlaw too. He devoted himself to Margery by becoming the member of the organizaton, and it was pretty obvious at that point why he did that.

True, Margery viewed them as kids at the beginning, but as the story progressed, she changed her view about both Eita and Keisaku, since they risked their lives numerous times for her and their friends. She started to respect them and yeah, she may have developed feelings for Keisaku. Why did no one act upon these feelings? They were constantly at war with the Tomogara, they didn't know how these feelings would effect the other.

The scenes were rushed, but think about it: Margery almost died, without coming to terms with Keisaku. Flame Hazes and their aides are literally living to fight for another day against the Tomogara. When Keisaku returned, he knew that if he doesn't tell her anything, he may never have another chance to confess to her, since the war already started and no one knew how things will turn out, they don't even know if they'll survive in the end. They accepted each other's feelings, since tomorrow may never come.

Margery is a Flame Haze and several hundred years old and Keisaku is roughly seventeen. But why can't a Flame Haze fall in love? Even if they aren't humans anymore on the outside, they are human beings on the inside. They have feelings too. Keisaku is seventeen years old and mature enough to have a relationship even if it is with an older woman. Besides, Margery looks pretty young for her age.

By the way if this freaked you out, why didn't you say anything about how Sydonay is obsessed with Hecate? She looks even younger than Shana and the others, while Sydonay looks like a middle-aged man. Or you could mention that Hecate developed feelings for Sakai through Konoe Fumina. Hecate is probably even older than Margery and she still liked Sakai enough for wanting to become one with him.

Gogetters is right, you should learn more about anime. If there is anything anime can teach you, then it is that love trancends everything: age, gender, religion, species, even life and death.

The events may have been badly executed by the anime but there were several hints about this throughout the novel. The adaptation is not the best, but hey, what can you expect from J.C. Staff? Anyway, it was bound to happen. I for one welcomed this development.
 
Mar 20, 2012 3:41 PM
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Next time please refrain from typing SPOILERS in title on your topic to protect innocent passer byers who wanted to watch show for them self without being told what will happened in which episode.
thanks ;)
BTW: Do I miss any worthwhile anime-romance from guy's point of view in MAL? Let me know without hesitation :)



 
Apr 25, 2012 7:07 AM

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The only thing that I find creepy is that centuries-old woman got fucked by a random teenager.
 
May 18, 2012 9:58 PM
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Only thing that bothers me is the fact that Shana and Yuji havent done shit yet in any episodes up to this, yet somehow these 2 have already slept together, even though they have had no romantic like relationship till now, not mentioning the fact hes 16 and shes 200-300 years old.

Wooot, hooray for some fucked up relationships. Logic at its best.
 
May 19, 2012 5:58 AM

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Love is not always, if ever, logical. :p
 
May 20, 2012 10:10 PM
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Tachii said:
Love is not always, if ever, logical. :p


Perfect title for the episode
 
Apr 6, 2014 7:53 AM

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All but certainly the best scene in the entire (mediocre) show. 76 episodes of the main characters not even being able to confess and acting like pre-pubescent children. Atleast 2 side characters acted like normal people who care deeply for eachother and may not live much longer. Age of consent in Japan is 13, Keisaka is 16.... Yeh take your moralfag elsewhere. If you want anime where even a kiss is taboo you have 99% of other anime to chose from.
 
Dec 4, 2014 9:11 AM
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Margery isn't really that old (physically). In that flashback she looked like late teens early twenties. She looks older from the way she dresses though.
 
Mar 12, 2015 7:21 PM

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Honestly.... I DO beleive the scene would have been fine without the implied sex. If they would have just kissed and not gone any further then it still would have been a very sweet scene. But hey, they did decide to take it a step further and I have no problem with that. I'm indifferent about it I guess. I don't mind the age difference, I think they are a great couple. By the end I was more invested in their relationship than I was with Shana an Yuji (they were being difficult the entire 3rd season and for some reason wouldn't confess to each other the first two.)

So not creepy but I didn't think it was nessesary. Whatevs, I'm just happy they're together. Keisaku's feelings have been implied from season 1. He hid his feelings for Margery unlike Eita but his were more real (I feel as if Eita's were mostly feelings of infatuation not a real attraction like Keisaku's) He was much more affectionate in subtile ways... He would also get A LOT more upset than Eita would when Margery left or betrayed them. And all that was just first season. He became a lot more devoted to her in the second and third season. A bit rushed still but they are supporting cast after all.
Modified by junebug13, Apr 6, 2015 9:33 PM
 
Jun 1, 2017 2:02 AM

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Well, grow up, people. (but I think you did in all those years lol)

Legally, yes, it may be wrong. In some countries, like mine for example, a woman like Margery could even go to jail. However, it's far from pedophilia IN THIS CASE. Heck, we're not talking about a 10-years-old boy here who's harrassed by his teacher.

Love doesn't work that way, it's not a mechanism. You cannot ever tell that a love may be rushed, wrong or I don't know. You cannot say: only after X time passed, it's okay to have certain feelings or you must go through A stage, then B stage, then only after C stage it's okay to go for it.

Surely, there are many types of love out there. Shana and Yuji, per example, share a kind of pure, genuine love. It's not the case for Margery and Satou. As some mentioned, Satou matured over the months he's stayed by her side. So, you got a horny, mature 16-17 years old teenager. What's wrong with that? Boys get horny and try to 'score' at mere ages of 15 or 16, it's hormones call. It's not like he's been abused or something. And yes, it's been heavily implied that he had a crush on Margery for a while, thus getting frustrated when she'd leave sometimes.

Margery, on the other hand, is not a 'several-hundred-years-bodied woman'. She's not a mummy, ffs. She became a Flame Haze in her early twenties, so she stopped aging. She may have lived centuries, but how is that even relevant, though? And although she saw Satou as a child in the beginning, she began caring for him as more than that, after.

Not to say that sexual tension is never RUSHED, like many people said around here. Hell, you can feel sexual tension for somebody even after a couple of hours you've met, after a conversation or dunno, a night in the club?

So we have a 16-years-old boy... a, say, 22-years-old young lady, they get acquinted, begin working together for several months, in the meantime they start feeling attraction one towards each other and after that, in one night when they are more vulnerable and opened up, they feel the need to release all that sexual tension between them.

Where's the creepy stuff, again?

P.S. How does that make SnS an ecchi anime or is not a scene suitable for it? It's not an anime for kiddies, as far as I know. And it's not ecchi, sex is a normal part of life, people get laid. It's only natural.
Modified by Anakat_sama, Jun 1, 2017 2:12 AM
The mindfucker.
 
Sep 29, 2017 2:51 PM
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ichig0fan said:
Yeah, I know episode 11 was a while ago, but I recently just saw it and couldn't help but think the implied sex scene by Keisaku and Margery was really creepy.

OK, Never mind the fact that Keisaku is only like 16 years old, and Margery is a fully grown woman.

When the FUCK did they become so close?

Sorry, I must have missed that...

I always thought that Keisaku had a natural attraction to Margery, because...well, he's a teenager and she's a HOT, Mature woman with a spectacular body.

Seriously, when did Margery share the same attraction?

I just don't see it, it just seems like she's the one that took advantage.


A mature older woman having sex with a 15 or 16 year old boy....that's OK for hentai, but for an anime like Shana it just comes across as super weird and creepy.


BTW, NO ONE would be cheering this if it had been a 16 year old GIRL who had sex with a mature older man.


LOL Seduced by a Cougar...
 
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