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Poll: Shakugan no Shana III (Final) Episode 14 Discussion


Jan 14, 2012 12:22 PM
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I'm now surely for Yuji's side, I really don't see anything wrong with it... I don't get why some of the Flame Hazes want what was happening until now to continue...
 
Jan 14, 2012 12:42 PM

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LieselotteHeart said:


What for? If the Denizens really leave, and if peace is really achieve, there will be no reason for the Flame Haze to pursue them, so what for do they kill the Flame Hazes?


Someone already answered this question on the previous page.


Anyway it was pretty good. I was sick of seeing the flame hazes destroying so easily the denizens. And the best thing of all was seeing that stupid nun getting owned lol.
Modified by Raziel1991, Jan 14, 2012 12:51 PM
 
Jan 14, 2012 1:05 PM

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In a way I'm happy that the motives of both sides are complicated. much better than shallow plots where one side is clearly evil for no reason xD
 
Jan 14, 2012 1:12 PM

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Unahim said:
nseika said:
So far, all magic things in Shana is fueled with the power of existence (either taken from human or the denizen's own "soul" existence). Assuming the snake is not excluded from that rule, creating a world seems like it's going to take hell lot of sacrifice.


Have you forgotten the Reiji Maigo? The trinity was able to use that to create an endless fountain of power of existence before. No reason they can't do something similar now.


This.

And perhaps, if the commander isn't an old hag. I'll like the Flame Hazes more. lol.
 
Jan 14, 2012 1:27 PM
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Gorgeous op is gorgeous.
 
Jan 14, 2012 2:01 PM

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It took them this long to have a good enough explanation to why Yuji is doing all of this.

 
Jan 14, 2012 2:14 PM

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Great episode and the new OP is awesome.
 
Jan 14, 2012 7:26 PM
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Ausmix said:
good ep, but so far the story/ plot between the flame hazes and Denizens reasons for fighting each other seems a bit weak/rushed, it would make the story better if the flame hazes had more of a stronger purpose for fighting the Denizens. Meh, we'll see how it turns out.

from what i know about the light novels, it looks like the anime will have the same ending (a good one)


Most people fight for no purpose, they fight for the sake of fighting and their pride.
 
Jan 14, 2012 9:59 PM

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So far I don't see much reason to side with the Flame Hazes.. I guess they want us to cheer the denizens on?
 
Jan 15, 2012 1:36 AM

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Great episode, favorite so far, glad Yuji is doing something so awesome, and Sophie needs to die!
 
Jan 15, 2012 4:17 AM

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The one thing I don´t get is: Now the tomogara eat humans to stay alive. So why should this change when they are in a different world? Even if the world the live in changes, they are still the same, unable to stay alive on their own...

And how does the god of creation intend to create a whole new world. Shouldn´t be possible to create something from nothingness...
 
Jan 15, 2012 5:43 AM

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I liked the episode.
But I didn't liked the OPENING.
I really loved the previous one so I don't get why the new one is soooo sooo bad?
It is only 'nice' but not 'AMAZING!!!' like Light My Fire was...
I feel sad.
 
Jan 15, 2012 7:57 AM

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Shouji said:
The one thing I don´t get is: Now the tomogara eat humans to stay alive. So why should this change when they are in a different world? Even if the world the live in changes, they are still the same, unable to stay alive on their own...

And how does the god of creation intend to create a whole new world. Shouldn´t be possible to create something from nothingness...

Yuji mentioned that the new world Xanadu will have limitless amounts of power of existence, so they'd be able to survive off that. They have been eating humans for their power of existence in the first place. And I guess how he goes about creating that world... we'll have to wait to find out.

xMonStar said:
I liked the episode.
But I didn't liked the OPENING.
I really loved the previous one so I don't get why the new one is soooo sooo bad?
It is only 'nice' but not 'AMAZING!!!' like Light My Fire was...
I feel sad.

Wow I loved the visuals for the new OP, and the song was alright. Music is very subjective.
A lot of people hated the 2nd OP of Nichijou as well... guess you can't please everyone.

Tonight... we are young... so let's set the world on fire, we can burn brighter, than the sun...
 
Jan 15, 2012 8:25 AM

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Horo said:
This Anime is getting worse...boring fights, boring story and too much dialogue.
First season was pretty good, second season was not too bad either but THIS is just sad.
No SnS fan anymore...not me. :X
Maybe the ending can satisfy me, i'll keep watching it.

The unresolved love triangle is best? School life story that leads to nowhere?
This anime for me is getting better and better, but then again that's for me and there's tastes for every kind of anime. And what attached me to this story in the first place wasn't the school life, it was seeing how a Flame Haze can feel and how she grows has a person and how a small Torch can do something big!
Misdreavius said:
Shouji said:
The one thing I don´t get is: Now the tomogara eat humans to stay alive. So why should this change when they are in a different world? Even if the world the live in changes, they are still the same, unable to stay alive on their own...
And how does the god of creation intend to create a whole new world. Shouldn´t be possible to create something from nothingness...

Yuji mentioned that the new world Xanadu will have limitless amounts of power of existence, so they'd be able to survive off that. They have been eating humans for their power of existence in the first place. And I guess how he goes about creating that world... we'll have to wait to find out.

It's because of the Reiji Maigo, I think.

As for the new OP, I actually loved it. It's not as "wow" and Light my Fire, but I hated the "Shaaaaaaaaraaa" and "Wooooohhhh" thingies in the Chorus... I think it fits very nicely as a final opening, with so much sweet images of Yuji and Shana.

As for the episode, surely not was perfect as the previous one, but very nice to watch. The Flame Hazes were never united: the Denizens are fighting for one goal and are very very organized. Yuji's victorious just by that. The Flame Haze army running in panic everywhere was hilarious to watch!
Modified by Senshigeia, Jan 15, 2012 8:40 AM
 
Jan 15, 2012 9:37 AM

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New opening was good.

The episode on the other hand... screw it.
 
Jan 15, 2012 9:48 AM

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Misdreavius said:

Wow I loved the visuals for the new OP, and the song was alright. Music is very subjective.
A lot of people hated the 2nd OP of Nichijou as well... guess you can't please everyone.


Probably it's because I was in love with first OP. It's not that I don't like the music from the new OP, it is really great. It didn't made me say WOW like Light My Fire.
I listen Light my fire every day since it was realased and I still love it. It has some BOOM in music, words, KOTOKO-san's voice... it's just one of the best openings I've ever heard.
That's why I'm sad. Because the new one is not as good as the previous was.
I would be amazed by the NEW one but the problem is that I loved the OLD one. I'd prefer watch the old one to the end of the season.
It is the same like it was with the first season and the second season of Shana. I was in love with Blaze by KOTOKO and JOINT by Kawada Mami.
And same with Prophecy by Kawada Mami wich was an op for Shakugan no Shana S.

And once more:
I LIKE the new op but not as much as Light My Fire.
Guess I'm just disappointed...
It will just have to run its course.

And sorry for my English... :(
 
Jan 15, 2012 11:05 AM

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Rather disappointed with the OP and episode, expected more.
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page.
 
Jan 15, 2012 12:28 PM

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Best episode yet imo.

OP was fantastic. Distinctively Mami Kawada, reminded me alot of her other Shana songs.

This ep changed my opinion of SIII completely. Gave a direction and purpose for the rest of the anime apart from just Yuji x Shana, and cleared up alot. Loved it.

Thought the first half was pretty messy, but it looks to be getting back on track now. Can't wait for more.
 
Jan 15, 2012 12:44 PM

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Epic episode was epic.
 
Jan 15, 2012 12:51 PM

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Nice episode, Yuuji ownead the flame haze just with words.
I liked the first OP more then this one, but it's still good.
 
Jan 15, 2012 1:20 PM

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Interesting episode. I almost agree with Yuji, except that it's quite obvious that his world that "won't harm the regular world" will in fact harm the regular world. Partially his overconfidence, partially the fact that he is labelled as the enemy in this series.

Ultimately, his plan is overly optimistic and will probably not go as planned; thus the problem.

And if he says he wants peace with everyone, then why didn't he command the Denizens to stop attacking the Flame Hazes who seemed to surrender? He's obviously just messing with them.

But it's true some Flame Hazes are just stubborn jokes.

 
Jan 15, 2012 2:08 PM
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And here I thought that this episode would be worse than the last episode.

Also, I pretty lol'ed at everyone bashing Sophie Sawallisch without looking at the context. Note that the priority of the Flame Hazes is to escape. I mean, Sophie is the leader of the Flame Hazes, aside from maintaining her political power over the Flame Hazes, it is still her responsibility to protect the lives of the Flame Hazes. We didn't her conviction from this episode, so we cannot assume that she is still stubborn. Maybe she is aware that Yuuji's plan might be good, but still maybe she knows that at this point in time, she had to maintain their morale in order to escape. Their priority right now is to escape. Listening to the enemy is too risky, I mean in the middle of the battlefield, will you listen to the enemy commander's speech? Of course, it would cost their life.
 
Jan 15, 2012 3:30 PM

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darkares said:
Interesting episode. I almost agree with Yuji, except that it's quite obvious that his world that "won't harm the regular world" will in fact harm the regular world. Partially his overconfidence, partially the fact that he is labelled as the enemy in this series.

Ultimately, his plan is overly optimistic and will probably not go as planned; thus the problem.

And if he says he wants peace with everyone, then why didn't he command the Denizens to stop attacking the Flame Hazes who seemed to surrender? He's obviously just messing with them.

But it's true some Flame Hazes are just stubborn jokes.


I have a feeling it's basically a reason to massacre the whole human race (6.5+ billion people) just so there are no enemies. Basically after the demoralization, it basically shows its true colors that it was a tactic so any and all enemies, past, present, and future will be killed, showing no mercy. It seems to me that not only does Yuji want to take over the world, he basically wants to commit xenocide.
 
Jan 15, 2012 3:38 PM
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I never understood why Flame Hazes were considered the good ones and Tomogara the bad ones and it seems I'm not alone to think like that, now the FH don't even have a reason to fight anymore since Yuji's plan seems flawless (I write "seems" because we'll probably find a flaw soon, but even then it'll be too late scenaristically to make any sense for us viewers, the points must be made at the beginning of the series, not as a Deus Ex Machina kind of plot device). Moreover, the Flame Haze's leaders have proven utterly inept and unable to take a simple decision since the beginning of this last season, with the perfect example being Sophie Sawallich leading her troops like a total retard (I know it's not LOGH but still, several millennia of experience and being so dumb...).

Well, they should definitely have stick to what Shana was all about in the beginning, a mild fantasy-action romance show with some teenage humour? Now the overly serious plot and grand-scale battles don't fit the series at all and the writer(s) are simply not skilled enough to pull anything out of it. Oh, and I didn't like the new OP, especially compared to the first one which was glorious.

In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.
 
Jan 15, 2012 4:02 PM
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Well, I thought Light My Fire was crap (I like it but it could be better) but still, Serment is way better.
 
Jan 15, 2012 4:14 PM

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Senshigeia said:
The unresolved love triangle is best? School life story that leads to nowhere?
This anime for me is getting better and better, but then again that's for me and there's tastes for every kind of anime. And what attached me to this story in the first place wasn't the school life, it was seeing how a Flame Haze can feel and how she grows has a person and how a small Torch can do something big!


I do feel this season is worse than the previous two. (Though I agree the unresolved love triangle and school life were irritating. I mean hell, the love triangle was stupid in the first place. Shana and Yuuji were immortal. Yoshida wasn't. It was absolutely impossible for Yoshida and Yuuji to have a relationship that didn't end terribly.)

For one the new characters are boring and annoying. Rebecca is decent I suppose but everyone else added was either a faceless drone or had a dull personality. The action is stale because most of it is just static images. And seeing characters talk war tactics all the time just isn't good entertainment. Especially when the war itself is rather...unexciting. We have been introduced to a world full of flame hazes and try as I might I can't seem to give a crap about them.
The easiest example I can give is that Shana final is like Nanoha Strikers. It has the same characters but ultimately doesn't hold the same charm the previous series had.

"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila."

 
Jan 15, 2012 4:45 PM

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The Flame Hazes are a bunch of pussies. The Denizens fought to the death.


 
Jan 15, 2012 5:13 PM

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wow love the new opening lol Flame Hazes gave up lool wonder wat will happen next can't wait for next episodeeeeeeee!!!
 
Jan 16, 2012 1:03 AM

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Eh...dunno what to say, really.

Regarding how everybody feels about the Flame Hazes...it seems everybody really dislikes them right now, either because they're 'arrogant' or 'don't think about the consequences' or whatever other reason.

But you know what I think? I think the reason why this is so is because the story actually follows both sides of the argument. That's what sets the Denizens apart from other antagonists - they have a real reason to be fighting, and aren't necessarily 'evil'. They simply want what is best for themselves. The Flame Hazes, on the other hand, fight simply to 'protect the balance'. I have a few abstract ideas myself about why they fight, but all that's purely speculative and philosophical.

Having said that, I feel that the only reason people dislike the Flame Hazes is because their side of the story has been kinda left out. In this episode, for example, Yuji talks about how they feared a 'great catastrophe' would occur were he to remake the world. This is the first mention I've ever heard of any real reason to be opposing him; before this episode, I assumed they fought simply because to fall into the God of Creation's dream would be to live a false reality (or something along those lines). Or because his dream consists of completely destroying and reworking the world.

As such, I'm much more sympathetic of the Flame Hazes; and their human bodies makes it that much easier to relate to them. Furthermore, a few of them have gotten personal battle scenes and revealed themselves to be unique, only to be slain at the last moment. The last few episodes, while epic in their own way, have really made me cringe at times. Call me a wuss if you will, but all these deaths, especially considering how unnatural some of them are, have really subdued my attitude towards the constant action going on.

Although this anime's been one of my favorites for a long time, the thing that really changed in the third season that was different from the first two is the lack of 'slice-of-life'; the problems the main characters had to deal with started as issues of love, and now they've got all of creation and existence to worry about. There's no longer that nice little mix of normal life and action which made me really enjoy the series. The dismissal of most of the schoolmates, for example, really dampened my enthusiasm.

Tl;dr - I'm a bit more sympathetic of the Flame Hazes than most, and think there's something the writers have left out regarding why they're fighting in the first place; but in the end, all the fighting is starting to get kinda sickening, even if it's just an anime. And the way the Flame Hazes completely freaked out at the end, especially with Francois, kinda irritated me. Some of them have been fighting for thousands of years, and they choose NOW to start questioning life and existence?
Modified by Genomax, Jan 16, 2012 1:54 AM
'I met many people. We were separated. And then reunited. This tune contains all those feelings.'
- Nanaka Yatsushiro, Myself;Yourself, Episode 13
 
Jan 16, 2012 4:43 AM
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Genomax said:
Eh...dunno what to say, really.

Regarding how everybody feels about the Flame Hazes...it seems everybody really dislikes them right now, either because they're 'arrogant' or 'don't think about the consequences' or whatever other reason.

But you know what I think? I think the reason why this is so is because the story actually follows both sides of the argument. That's what sets the Denizens apart from other antagonists - they have a real reason to be fighting, and aren't necessarily 'evil'. They simply want what is best for themselves. The Flame Hazes, on the other hand, fight simply to 'protect the balance'. I have a few abstract ideas myself about why they fight, but all that's purely speculative and philosophical.

Having said that, I feel that the only reason people dislike the Flame Hazes is because their side of the story has been kinda left out. In this episode, for example, Yuji talks about how they feared a 'great catastrophe' would occur were he to remake the world. This is the first mention I've ever heard of any real reason to be opposing him; before this episode, I assumed they fought simply because to fall into the God of Creation's dream would be to live a false reality (or something along those lines). Or because his dream consists of completely destroying and reworking the world.

As such, I'm much more sympathetic of the Flame Hazes; and their human bodies makes it that much easier to relate to them. Furthermore, a few of them have gotten personal battle scenes and revealed themselves to be unique, only to be slain at the last moment. The last few episodes, while epic in their own way, have really made me cringe at times. Call me a wuss if you will, but all these deaths, especially considering how unnatural some of them are, have really subdued my attitude towards the constant action going on.

Although this anime's been one of my favorites for a long time, the thing that really changed in the third season that was different from the first two is the lack of 'slice-of-life'; the problems the main characters had to deal with started as issues of love, and now they've got all of creation and existence to worry about. There's no longer that nice little mix of normal life and action which made me really enjoy the series. The dismissal of most of the schoolmates, for example, really dampened my enthusiasm.

Tl;dr - I'm a bit more sympathetic of the Flame Hazes than most, and think there's something the writers have left out regarding why they're fighting in the first place; but in the end, all the fighting is starting to get kinda sickening, even if it's just an anime. And the way the Flame Hazes completely freaked out at the end, especially with Francois, kinda irritated me. Some of them have been fighting for thousands of years, and they choose NOW to start questioning life and existence?


Because Yuuji's declaration effectively made them useless. After Yuuji declares his plan, the flame hazes don't have any reason to fight anymore. Note that they already lost their humanity, and that they don't necessarily have some place to return to (like Khamsin's backstory ;_ ;). Some of them even exist solely for fighting Guze no Tomogara and protecting the balance, or "status quo".

The discrepancy of between season 2 and 3 is greater than the discrepancy between season 1 and season 2. Season 1, though has its dark moments (first 4 episodes), has its slice-of-life moments. Season 3 immediately discards all traces of SoL and romance, and will only work if the viewer was "absorbed" into the show.

EDIT: My favorite part of the episode was when Shana admitted in the last part that she can't do anything and that she didn't have the conviction to stand against Yuuji. Just shows that she isn't a tsundere anymore.
Modified by Dark_Pride, Jan 16, 2012 4:54 AM
 
Jan 16, 2012 7:36 AM

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Loved the last OP / ED, but these new ones are just as good. Shakugan no Shana has always got great openings and endings tbh.

Wow the flame hazes just completely broke down, epic panic and chaos. Yuji took away the main reason that they even exist and all of them just went bananas. They weren't united at all really. Then the tomogaras took advantage and bombarded them, smh.

Yuji's plan sounds good and all but there's just something that doesn't feel right like Shana says. Hmm the unlimited power existence part, wonder if he means to do that by using the Reiji Maigo.
 
Jan 16, 2012 10:45 AM

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Arctic_Wolf said:
Well of course Yuji's plan SOUNDS flawless...

Very few people seem to be acknowledging the extreme likelihood that his plan isn't all sunshine, lolipops and rainbows for everyone. If anything, I'd say Sophie knows the bad that will still come of his plan rather than just being a stubborn warmonger, but it could easily be both.

+ what Prism said.


This. I generally don't like Sophie either, but I don't think she's in this battle for the soul purpose of preserving status and power and the fear of change. Likewise, I don't believe that SoF has been entirely forthcoming with Yuji, despite multiple assurances otherwise. I think SoF and Sophie, as leaders to opposing ideas and factions, both know of a probable downside to SoF's/Yuji's new plan.

A dominant theme of this series has been ambiguity; most obviously in the ambiguity between right and wrong in war, but also in other aspects. I think that with that in mind, it's a big mistake to accept SoF's ambition as a flawlessly positive solution.
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Jan 16, 2012 3:29 PM

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And this makes me wonder why the Flame Hazes are hell bent to destroy the Tomogara. Snake's plan in my opinion is the best way for attain peace.

With this I have finally stopped seeing the Flame Hazes as good guys. Until the reason why they continue fighting is shown then I would love to see them dying, especially that nun.

Oh, to a poster, obviously SoF will troll with everyone. Hayami voices him, the same seiyuu that voices Aizen, the king of trolls.
 
Jan 16, 2012 9:08 PM
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First and foremost i just wanna say it episodes like these that make me glad to be an otaku!!!

i felt i throw my opinion in ring: I want to with every fiber of my being want to believe that the S.N.F(yuji) plan is full proof but if there anything i;ve learned from the the numerous animes that i ve watched and manga that i've read is that No plan is full proof in anime theres obviously some huge flaw that were all missing that will ultimately ruin this plan and i believe that both sides leaders kno this. and another thing that seems to be getting at me is i kno that reji maigo is a treasure that contains a practically infinite amount of essensce but i still can't believe that it will have enough power an entire world(xanadu) EXACTLY the way it is now least not with out some drawback which is what i think the S.N.F is might be hiding from yuji even tho he said that he told him everything....
 
Jan 16, 2012 10:33 PM

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great ep. the new OP was pretty good, but i loved the new ED, rich stuff :D
im still indifferent to both sides. while i do want to see yuji succeeed, the outcome is still iffy. altho his confidence in this new world is almost enough for me to accept it. the flame hazes still have a reason to do what they r doing, the fight to maintain order isnt meaningless imo. but with that speech yuji made i can understand y they would be in such a state of meaningless, that guy is just flat out brilliant!
 
Jan 17, 2012 6:09 AM

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Shouji said:
The one thing I don´t get is: Now the tomogara eat humans to stay alive. So why should this change when they are in a different world? Even if the world the live in changes, they are still the same, unable to stay alive on their own...

And how does the god of creation intend to create a whole new world. Shouldn´t be possible to create something from nothingness...
They need it to survive in human world.

CMIIW, but Tomogara is not coming to human world ever since the dawn of mankind. At one point in time, they find a way to cross over and discover this amazing power source which is human existence.

At the very least, Tomogara contracted to Flame Haze can go home to Guze if their contractor dies. They has been surviving for who know how long in a world without human. Of course, without the luxury of using that power of existence.

The snake at least has created one or two worlds. Why couldn't he create one more ?
 
Jan 17, 2012 12:57 PM
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I love how the shows portrays the "bad guys" with reasonable reasons for doing what they're doing, but the "good guys" are portrayed as if they're arrogant and all that. It isn't that easy to really now who is really good and who is really bad, right now.

I imagine a similar situation of what's happening would be something like this:
Doctors, nurses and hospitals are used each day to cure and help people who are sick(balance and tradition) , but what if someone came saying there will be no more sick people(changing tradition), that would mean that millions of doctors and nurses would lose their job and everything they studied for would be for nothing. Why? Cause there won't be any use for them anymore. However the case of the flame haze, it isn't just a job but the very purpose and reason for their lives that they are losing.

Yuji/serpent kind of reminds me of a revolutionary, those kinds of people were always portrayed throughout history as being opposed by traditional people (in this show that would be the flame haze).

Yuji/serpent's plan seems very good and all, but I'm curious if what he's trying to do won't have any consequences. He wants to create a new world between theirs and the humans, but what if that in the end weakens the separation of both worlds and makes them collide with each other or something (this is only what I imagine of what could happen).
 
Jan 18, 2012 12:59 AM

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This has to be the poorest animated war ever. Everything was either stills or pans with sound effects in the background. It's just... horrible.

Hilarious how old Snakey was looking to be reasonable and even possibly compassionate and then that just flies right out the window by ruthlessly slaughtering those who had lost the will the fight and were in agreement with his 'Grand Order'.
 
Jan 18, 2012 10:22 AM

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Brilliant. 10
 
Jan 18, 2012 10:33 AM

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Damn, the flame haze are really pathetic lol. A few words of propaganda and they lose all hope. Overall, I'm liking this season more that the first 2. Less love triangle nonsense and more action.
 
Jan 18, 2012 8:55 PM

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What? This episode was completely weird. The flame hazes are acting like total idiots. What sounds bad about the plan? Why was there still people fighting after the war was announced over? And most importantly when is the Nun gonna die?
 
Jan 19, 2012 3:22 AM

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u know ive also started thinking. what if this is actually all some kind of elaborate trap to break apart and ultimately destroy flame hazes. if u think about what the snake symbolizes and how this could possibly affect the outcome of this plan ud see something not quite right about this. i have not read the manga and have no clue what happens beyond this point, but i have a feeling that this new world isnt all it seems to be and that possibly yuji, flame hazes, and denizes r being decieved by this action of creating a new world. not only that, if this world were to turn out to be as nice as it is proclaimed to be, it wouldnt make for an interesting plot and so it would make sense for it to somehow turn out bad
 
Jan 20, 2012 4:41 PM
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In this episode, we got to see the problem with the "I'm-just-a-grunt-I-let-my-superiors-do-the-thinking-for-me" mentality. As soon as said grunts only have only an (or, rather, the) enemy commander with the gift of gab to listen to, then at best, their resolve would be shaken. At worst, you'll have what you saw in this episode.

If those Flame Hazes would think for themselves, perhaps they'd realize that this person--the leader of the group that has been slaughtering and consuming humankind for selfish gains since time immemorial--could be, just maybe, pulling a fast one on them. And that said group wouldn't stop killing, even if the Flame Hazes dropped their weapons--which was exactly what happened.

Could someone whose hands--along with the hands of his supporters--are so thoroughly saturated with blood be THAT easily believed?

Which leads me to Yuji. His stupidity...is so bewildering as to be offensive to my thought processes. From what I remember, he's been on about saving Shana from a life of conflict, as well as those he cares about from lives as potential snacks.

Right, Yuji. In order to do so, you'll side with the same ones who, actively and without restraint, subjected those people you claim to wish to save to the very life you claim to wish to save them from. I wonder if I was the only one who saw a problem with this from episode 1.
(To be clearer, Yuji sides with the commander of a group that obviously doesn't care about those Yuji wants to save, because the subordinates--that the Snake controls--that make up that group damn sure don't care, themselves.)

I side with the Flame Haze. I don't follow the light novel, as I don't wish to be spoiled, but since I became familiar with the Shana canon....the majority of Tomogara presented didn't even take a stance of neutrality--not to speak of benevolence. And if they follow the Snake of the Festival's will like a god's, it only follows that their actions reflect his modus operandi.
 
Jan 21, 2012 12:46 AM

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You know I'm actually glad that the Tomogora won the battle and the flame hazes are getting slaughtered...
 
Jan 22, 2012 10:24 AM

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I don't get why the Flame Hazes started running?

I mean if I recall correctly, most Flame Hazes are only in it for retribution because of an incident in which they lost something due to Tomogara. (This is what we are told previous seasons)
 
Jan 22, 2012 10:59 PM
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badbluesplayer said:
You know I'm actually glad that the Tomogora won the battle and the flame hazes are getting slaughtered...

Haha, same. I have trouble to support Flame Hazes, to be honest... They are all so annoying. This episode was one of the first interesting ones from SnS Final.
 
Jan 22, 2012 11:42 PM

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I've never liked any of the Flame Haze, and I was expecting Yuji's declaration for a few episodes now. This was a windfall of good plot development, but there's no way it'll last. The way I see it something is going to come up that shows that Yuji is teh most eval and Shana is going to just go nuts with her stupid naive speach and hit him with a love beam or some shit. I have no hope that this show is going to do anything but be a good guys barely win against the bad guys kind of cliche ending. Even if both sides have done a good job of staying in a moral gray area, it always ends with 'good guys beats bad guys'.
 
Jan 24, 2012 7:18 AM

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Yuji scores an impressive propaganda victory. Gotta hand it to him and the Snake of the Festival for being such great orators. Whatever advantage in fighting strength the Flame Haze possessed last episode was lost in this one as the rank-and-file Flame Haze began deserting their army in droves before getting massacred. What couldn't be gained by sheer force of arms and numbers was achieved by a single speech that shattered the loose unity that held the Flame Haze forces together.

While Yuji's plan sounds perfect, it all hinges on whether the Snake of the Festival could be trusted, and to what degree is he right about the world not going to be affected by his ambitious plan. Likewise, we also don't know if Snake is withholding important information from everyone else, including Yuji. Like a certain, widely hated magical creature from another show that also involved powers and contracts...

The plan sounds really good, but it doesn't mean that unexpected problems won't arise. And the lack of more details are troublesome. How will he achieve it? Is he able to create something out of nothing? Or will he need huge amounts of something to make it, like Power of Existence? There's something amiss, just as Shana says.

Also, new OP/ED. Not bad. The OP scenes gave hints to Yuji's plans though, so I wasn't that surprised by his declaration.
 
Feb 8, 2012 7:29 AM

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of course Shana even after seeing Flame Hazes die around her in droves still won't decide she has to kill Yuji who is directly responsible for their deaths oh no. Still have to do that "redemption" bit right? Foolish but the show is certainly ignoring the "ends justify the means" tactic that guy is using. Makes me want to hit the drop button. I suppose Shana is so selfish that their deaths mean nothing only getting Yuji matters.
 
Feb 8, 2012 3:36 PM

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gswelcome said:
of course Shana even after seeing Flame Hazes die around her in droves still won't decide she has to kill Yuji who is directly responsible for their deaths oh no. Still have to do that "redemption" bit right? Foolish but the show is certainly ignoring the "ends justify the means" tactic that guy is using. Makes me want to hit the drop button. I suppose Shana is so selfish that their deaths mean nothing only getting Yuji matters.


Last time i checked in war people die, if you run away realizing how useless you really are (don't want to get into that since there was a long enough discussion about it earlier in this forum) and turn your back to the enemy then you are gonna die. Yuji in technicality hasn't killed anyone yet, his big snake might have but that's it. Also this war which you could argue since Yuji started is his fault is also a bad way at looking at it, since the Flame Hazes were already at war, a endless war at that, Yuji just escalated things and put more at stake. Also if anyone is selfish it is the Flame Hazes in general since they don't want to stop the war because of paranoia (also don't want to get into that either, since there is even a longer discussion about that). So end point is that while you can freely think that i suggest you look at the reasons why they are fighting, or better yet how they are dying; you are saying it like the Flame Hazes are innocent bystanders or something...
 
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