Am I the only who who liked.....
Jan 10, 2012 5:13 AM
Jan 10, 2012 5:16 AM
Jan 11, 2012 4:16 AM
Am I the only one who liked the TV version of Seras Victoria better? I have to say, she's a MUCH more interesting character in the TV series than the 1-dimensional....THING... that she is now.
You are the only one =D.
Modified by Klimat, Jan 11, 2012 4:52 AM
Jan 12, 2012 1:27 PM
Jan 13, 2012 3:51 AM
Ouch! *checks Terrafire list*
Only three episodes watched and it looks like it was two episodes when he created this topic.
Man, seriously, you haven't seen anything really big yet so why already complaining? Valentine bros ark was the middle of the TV series and they dragged and pumped it like hell throwing in some random character developments often not quite applicable with the manga cannon. For Ultimate Valentine bros ark is a part of introduction, the real deal shows up in last minutes of the third episode and hits the fan hard in episode five. Watch it at least up until episode seven, then we'll talk about Seras.
Jan 18, 2012 4:39 AM
Jan 18, 2012 7:19 AM
Alright, alright. I was rash. She DOES get better.
.....but I still like Original Seras more.
"Watching at 5 of 10".
Just you wait for 7 of 10 =D!
Also the only Original Seras is the one from the manga, not from the old TV series that is secondary.
Jan 18, 2012 9:38 AM
I agree. Original Seras was way better. In the original she had some dignity about her and watching her having a hard time accepting the fact that she is a vampire was very interesting. Seras in Ultimate is just... fanservicy and weak-willed.
Ultimate is way better than the original as a whole though.
Jan 18, 2012 9:57 AM
But how exactly manga/OVA Seras is weak-willed? One may say by the end of the story she ends up to be even more useful to Hellsing organisation than Alucard himself. While Seras from the old series in the final of the show was only good enough to supply her Master with a pistol magazine (ironically with no success to accomplish this simple task even). Also "having a hard time accepting the fact that she is a vampire" is being a weak-willed in my book. Accepting it fast and straight is a sign of a strong will on the other hand.
Jan 18, 2012 12:07 PM
She is weak-willed in the sense that she is easily manipulated. For example the fact that she became a vampire and yet didn't give a fuck. "My whole life has changed drastically because now I'm a vampire and have to fight for some organization I have never heard of and I didn't have any say in it whatsoever, but meh, who cares?". Two other minor examples would be when they prove for that mercenary group (or whatever they were) that they are vampires and Seras is forced to do it, against her will, and later on (spoiler for episode 4 or 5 I think)
when the leader for that group kisses her and she goes berserk... over a guy that she only knew for a day or so?
The original Seras doesn't accept all of this. She didn't want to become a vampire or fight for some weird organization. She says no, she resists her fate. Not literally of course, but in a more subtle and down to earth way. For example the fact that she refuses to drink blood. But in the end she knows it's useless to resist and makes the best of the situation by following orders and keep quiet about it. That's some great character drama right there. And the best part is that they didn't exaggerate this aspect by making her entirely emo about the whole situation. As I said, she was dignified and clearly marks that she only does all this because she has no choice, not because she wants to (or doesn't care as in Ultimate).
Anyway, it was quite a while since I watched Hellsing, so I don't remember everything clearly and could probably be wrong somewhere. I haven't read the manga either (but am quite interested in doing so) so I wouldn't know how useful she is there, heck, that doesn't have anything to do with being weak- or strong-willed anyway. But one thing is for certain, I definitely enjoyed the original Seras more than the OVA-Seras.
Modified by bergdoll, Jan 18, 2012 12:11 PM
Jan 18, 2012 12:23 PM
Jan 18, 2012 1:48 PM
For example the fact that she became a vampire and yet didn't give a fuck. "My whole life has changed drastically because now I'm a vampire and have to fight for some organization I have never heard of and I didn't have any say in it whatsoever, but meh, who cares?".
Not so super drastically as you make it sounds. As a human she lived alone, no family, no friends that really matter, no love. During the Cheddar accident she was not some cliche typical anime school kid dreaming of an ordinary life dragged into the action against own will. She was a police officer, the kind of a cop they will send to investigate a bizarre missing persons case with a potential killer involved. She came there by her own, the only problem was no one told her there were supernatural criminals in addition to the real ones in the world.
Since she had no family or friends to begin with that part of her life was easy to tell goodbye. And fighting for Hellsing organisations is pretty much like fighting for a murder investigation team in police, only more intense and with higher stakes involved. A promotion of a kind if you ask me. An upgrade. She shot the vampire priest as a human when she thought he was a human too, now she shoots vampires as a vampire vampire which basically is the same thing, just on a higher level.
Even more, with time Hellsing members managed to become her family, something she newer had for the most part of her human life.
So what to grieve or be sorry about for? Seras's life only improved after she "died" if you ask me.
The only real issue here is the deal with drinking other peoples blood. It was newer detailed why it is so important in Hellsing TV, accordingly it made no much sense there. On the contrary, in Ultimate we have a good explanation and a clear demonstration of the blood significance in the 8-th episode. Also it will play out even more later.
Two other minor examples would be when they prove for that mercenary group (or whatever they were) that they are vampires and Seras is forced to do it, against her will...
Oh, come on. Poor girl was brutally forced to flick on a guy's forehead, what a big deal. Just a friendly favor it was. And a friendly flick.
...over a guy that she only knew for a day or so?
Actually she knew him for months by the time. And there were plenty of the scenes showing how good they were getting along together, the only minor problem I can recall is the way the production team have cut off the target shooting practice scene from OVA3 (where it belongs according to the manga plot) to paste it into OVA6 ending as a flashback. It should have come earlier from where it is in Ultimate to channel Seras & Pip relationships timely, therefore better. Also they've added a short going back from the market scene into OVA4 beginning to make up for what they've done.
Jan 18, 2012 4:07 PM
Good points. But still, Alucard turned her into a vampire without asking (which he actually did in TV) and she is totally okay with it later. I mean, come on. She is turned into a blood-sucking monster that aren't even supposed to exist and her reaction to it is a happy-go-lucky "meh, whatever"... I guess this can be explained by that "event" in her childhood concerning her parents and, as you mentioned, the fact that she didn't have any friends, love and whatnot. But then I start to wonder... is this supposed to be a troubled character? I mean, take her out of context and show her with her general "happy-go-lucky" personality to a person who haven't seen anything from Hellsing and he/she would NEVER be able to guess that this is a character with possible mental issues caused by a childhood-trauma. I mean, look how silly she is most of the time, she is almost like that romcom stereotype who goes "aaahhhh, no fair!" and blows up her cheeks whenever something doesn't go her way. (No, she obviously doesn't do that, but if you have seen that type of character I'm pretty sure you know what I mean). Okay, she does have mood swings at times and gets deadly serious when it's needed, but the creators never really managed get past that standard-personality, meaning that I personally could never take her entirely seriously. The damage has already been done.
I think the original Seras would have fitted much better in Ultimate. Her gloomy attitude would make more sense i combination with her past, those freak-outs when she gets deadly serious would make more sense too, and above all it would be way easier to take her seriously. That family-aspect with the Hellsing-members you mentioned would probably have been way more satisfying with the TV-Seras since it would create a sort of subtle tsundere-effect over it. Instead of Ultimate-Seras who was okay with it from the beginning.
Regarding that flick to the forehead: Well she is embarrassed over it and doesn't want to do it, and I did write "minor" in front of the argument. I know that I spotted lots of similar examples while I watched Ultimate two years ago, but now I just don't remember them. XD
As for the Seras x Pip relationship, I have no counterarguments since I don't remember anything about it besides how they met and the kiss-scene. I always thought it was like the next day or so they defended that house after they met.
Now that I think about it, why do you like the manga/ova-Seras more than the TV-Seras?
Jan 19, 2012 2:30 AM
Good points. But still, Alucard turned her into a vampire without asking (which he actually did in TV) and she is totally okay with it later. I mean, come on.
Actually he asked. Alucard made it clear that vampires exist and made sure Seras was convertible before shooting her through the lungs. Then after killing the priest he turned to her and asked his signature line: "What will you do?" - something he always asks when he wants to know if a person before him is going to give up and die or willing to struggle and stay alive. Seras then is trying to reach his hand instead just closing her eyes which is the only response she is able to give considering her condition (because I'm pretty sure it is not possible to talk with an enormous bloody hole in the chest). Alucard also makes it clear it was all her own choice in his OVA4 dialog with Walter. The other possible choice was of cause instant death, yet still.
But then I start to wonder... is this supposed to be a troubled character? I mean, take her out of context and show her with her general "happy-go-lucky" personality to a person who haven't seen anything from Hellsing and he/she would NEVER be able to guess that this is a character with possible mental issues caused by a childhood-trauma.
Well, who told characters should all be obvious? That's true Hirano himself (Hellsing original author) at first created Seras for comedic relief to lose up some tension and only came up with a name for her by the end of the first volume (she was only referenced as Police Girl before this point), yet still it all assembled greatly later on. Seras may be the most kind person from all the cast, but she clearly showed she can and will shoot a guy in the face when that is a right thing to do right away on the forth minute of the show, then we were able to see even more in OVA2 when she goes all bloodthirsty maniacal smile berserker on ghoulified soldiers. That second thing is something that laid somewhere in subconscious to pop up from there partly unexpected while the first thing is just a normal Seras behavior. In detective stories they often make killers with mental issues able to hide those so you can never guess until the end and it is considered to be a legitimate plot device. Seras on the other hand is not even evil, her childhood-traumas only causing her to let off some steam in a little bit bloodier way than it is needed when violence is the only adequate answer anyway. She has her issues in the head but she is not tortured or directly controlled by those. They are always there but it is not a super big deal to be reminded about through every second.
Now that I think about it, why do you like the manga/ova-Seras more than the TV-Seras?
Well, Ultimate Seras is more fun, less troubled (which is ironical considering the fact they newer showed that scene from her childhood in Hellsing TV as I recall, yet still) respectively OVA Seras has a stronger will. Also TV Seras made no much sense as a police officer for me. In the first episode of Hellsing TV series the first and only target she actually shoots is Alucard himself. What the hell? Why? He newer attacked her, he just stood there talking hints after disposing of a dangerous monster Seras should have disposed of herself. On the contrary she was not able to shoot the vampire priest. Way to go, TV Seras, way to go. Then the shooting practise scene where TV Seras was not able to snipe a bloody ghoul trying to eat a women alive right before Seras's eyes because shooting people (ghouls are people now, what have I missed?) is something she can't force herself to do. WHAT THE HECK, THERE IS A MURDER PROCEEDING IN REAL TIME BEFORE YOUR NOSE AND YOU JUST STAND THERE DOING NOTHING, WHAT KIND OF A COP ARE YOU?! Seriously, she would newer get a police badge being a person like this, all the more so no sane chief officer would ever send someone like her to investigate Cheddar. That sniping practice was so unHiran-ish I can't even express. They've turned a police officer character into an average untrained pacifist cliche type and that makes no sense at all. Not to mention plotwise TV Seras was newer able to do anything significant. She was just running around, struggling with herself, trying to do some training, leading a worthless investigation (why would you interview that random Helena vamp loli about a theoretical secret Nosferatu society, why won't you just ask your boss Integra who descends from a vampire hunting dynasty with a family tree as big as a royal one or why won't you just ask your Master who is a goddamd No Life King himself?), shooting some minor nameless foes. Yet nothing that really matters for Hellsing organisation was ever achieved by her. Her biggest arch-nemesis was a dull ex-Spec Ops guy so weak and forgettable he even has no character profile here on MAL I believe. So what was her role in a bigger picture? I can only think about fanservice. Or I guess they were planning to treat her better in the second season but for they've newer managed to pull Hellsing TV 2 off I can only discourse on what we've got in the end.
Try to get it right, it's not like I hate TV Seras character or something. Despite obvious nonsensical traits she was fine and somewhat likable back there when I first learned about Hellsing through the TV series. Yet still she has nothing against the real one.
Real Seras is strong, competent, deadly yet sincerely kind, cheerful and fun despite all the horrors she witnessed. No emo stuff, just the right amount of everything to be genuinely bright person able to survive the bloody mess Hellsing story is.
Modified by Klimat, Jan 19, 2012 3:01 AM
Jan 20, 2012 5:53 AM
Jan 20, 2012 11:28 AM
Jan 21, 2012 4:24 PM
Jan 22, 2012 1:19 AM