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Poll: Fate/Zero Episode 12 Discussion


Jan 9, 2012 1:39 AM

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Valaskjalf said:
Wait a second. Irisviel is a homonculus ? :o.


It's been established since episode 3. She's the Homunculus dispatched by the Einzberns in this war. Aka
 
Jan 27, 2012 8:44 AM

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Great episode

I hope caster gets killed off in this last one
 
Mar 7, 2012 4:58 PM
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Interesting to see the ties to Fate/Stay Night in location and obviously the link with Saber.

Great dialogue between Gilgamesh and Kirei. Guessing the first series will end after the fight with Caster?
 
Mar 27, 2012 6:11 PM

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Gilgamesh: "Then you'd better find yourself a strong Servant if you're going to fight me."
*picks up his own piece*

Oh, shit.
 
Mar 27, 2012 6:42 PM

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Ahohime said:
This episode was kinda really boring with the whole episode consisting of dialogue... :/


I think you're watching the wrong show.
 
Apr 23, 2012 2:59 PM

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Great episode, even better the second time I have to say. As far as I'm concerned that dialogue between Kirei and Gil at the end is easily one of the best directed scenes I've had the pleasure of watching in anime. Every thing from the use of Chess pieces to show the underlining meaning to Gil's words, to denial of his nature, to how the music used and finally how the episode ended with the shot of Gil's eye. Perfect scene.

As I said before, the scene with Saber and Irisviel going to Shirou's future home was cool as well.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
May 23, 2012 12:39 AM

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This episode was very interesting for F/SN readers. It sheds light on Kirie's actions in the 5th war and man I was just glued to the conversation. These last two episodes have been really good.
 
May 25, 2012 1:56 AM

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Hakuromatsu said:
Gilgamesh: "Then you'd better find yourself a strong Servant if you're going to fight me."
*picks up his own piece*

Oh, shit.

Kirei can't take a hint.
Another brilliant dialogue heavy episode.
 
Sep 12, 2012 9:44 AM
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The build up was freaking intense! Looking forward to the next episode!
 
Sep 13, 2012 9:38 AM

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Hmmm wounder who will be Kirie servant.
 
Sep 14, 2012 2:24 AM

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Wonder what Kirei will do next.
 
Sep 14, 2012 9:27 PM

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So, he has to steal another masters servant to renter? Hmm....

"I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika
 
Sep 16, 2012 3:08 AM

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That's the real Kirei from the VN, not the bland villain from the adaptation of Fate/stay night. And Gilgamesh stands as a noble King, who plans events in his ways. He already figures what could happen to Kirei and who is servant would be.

Iris is not feeling well, that's sad, I'd love to see her drive the car again.
 
Nov 21, 2012 2:28 PM

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Rather a slow episode with only dialogue though the end was rather interesting with the a new master in the game! Well up to the last episode of the first season!
 
Dec 21, 2012 5:21 PM

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so ... If I understand this right he plans to steal archer? Or atleast that is what archer wanted to have happen? I was sort of hoping for a new servant to be summoned tbh but I guess I don't mind too much either way.

Also recently occurred to me that they mention that the Holy Grail War is held every 60 years, was their a reason why in F/SN it was held so much earlier than that, I mean I can't remember their being one but w/e, anyways semi sad seeing this all go down. Also wondering where Shirou is, his father is Kiritsugu so did he just get abandoned?
 
Dec 21, 2012 5:42 PM

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Pirating_Ninja said:
so ... If I understand this right he plans to steal archer? Or atleast that is what archer wanted to have happen? I was sort of hoping for a new servant to be summoned tbh but I guess I don't mind too much either way.

Also recently occurred to me that they mention that the Holy Grail War is held every 60 years, was their a reason why in F/SN it was held so much earlier than that, I mean I can't remember their being one but w/e, anyways semi sad seeing this all go down. Also wondering where Shirou is, his father is Kiritsugu so did he just get abandoned?


It's impossible to summon a new servant in this war. Once the 7 servants are in the war that's all you get. If you are wondering about that in Fate/stay night you'll get your answer there eventually. As well, as about Shirou.

About the 60 yrs. thing that actually isn't answered until the Heaven's Feel route of the VN, if I remember correctly. Hopefully, someone can clear that up....but it would probably be best to just continue on until the end of Season 2. One of us Typemoon fans will more than likely help you there.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
Dec 22, 2012 8:35 AM

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Pirating_Ninja said:
so ... If I understand this right he plans to steal archer? Or atleast that is what archer wanted to have happen? I was sort of hoping for a new servant to be summoned tbh but I guess I don't mind too much either way.

Also recently occurred to me that they mention that the Holy Grail War is held every 60 years, was their a reason why in F/SN it was held so much earlier than that, I mean I can't remember their being one but w/e, anyways semi sad seeing this all go down. Also wondering where Shirou is, his father is Kiritsugu so did he just get abandoned?

It was stated in FSN that Kiritsugu adopted Shirou AFTER the end of the 4th war.
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Mar 3, 2013 2:56 PM

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Most interesting. Assassin is dead, but Kirei is still in the game.

 
Mar 9, 2013 2:48 AM
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fucking saber
tailgating bitch
 
May 10, 2013 5:13 AM

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My initial impression of this series is that it definitely needs more Kiritsugu badassery.

Yes, definitely.

(Very cool so far though!)
 
Jun 11, 2013 11:50 AM

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hmm, what happen to Iri? I dont really understand.. :/

btw the assassin is really dead right? but why kirei get the master place again in the end? -_- a bit confuse about the conversation between kirei and archer in end of episode :/
 
Jun 11, 2013 12:44 PM

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makarov52 said:
hmm, what happen to Iri? I dont really understand.. :/

btw the assassin is really dead right? but why kirei get the master place again in the end? -_- a bit confuse about the conversation between kirei and archer in end of episode :/
Her body is losing its functions becaus eshe is becoming the Holy Grail.

Because the grail chose him again.That is all.
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Jun 11, 2013 1:00 PM

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So the assassins where defeated for real. Lets see what Kirei is going to do next.
 
Jun 29, 2013 7:38 PM

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Archer is smarter than I thought . He completely analyzed Kirei's personality.

He also hinted that he want Kirei to steal him from Tokiomi.

"And if, there were so many people in the world, there had to be someone living an interesting life that wasn't ordinary. I was sure of it. Why wasn't that person me?"
- The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya Part V
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Jul 13, 2013 12:39 AM

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Lol, Archer makes a good anime reviewer. He said pretty much what I said in the previous episode disscussion: "they're all a bunch of mediocrities with utterly uninteresting reasons for seeking my treasure".
What I said was:
HATUL300 said:
Most of the masters motivations are either vague or uninteresting imo.

Lol, way to go Archer!
It wasn't a bad episode though.
Modified by Hatul, Jul 13, 2013 12:42 AM
 
Jul 25, 2013 1:31 AM

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Lots of talking.
Not bad, just not as interesting as last episode.
 
Aug 9, 2013 2:53 AM

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A very smart dialogue between Archer and Kirei.

Why do I have a feeling that Kirei's desires involve children. Oh right. He's a priest. jk xD

5/5

 
Oct 4, 2013 2:12 AM

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cantius said:
It wasn't EPIC at all.


Clearly you don't like smart dialogue. That's ok.
Powerful eyebrows.
 
Oct 10, 2013 2:45 PM

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Even though I knew that Gilgamesh was gonna end up with Kirei sooner or later (from F/SN), I still had a little hope that Kirei will just disappear :/
He is just so uninteresting. All that bullshit Gilgamesh brought up about him wishing that he would be able to find his wish or whatever was just ridiculous.
 
Oct 13, 2013 6:33 AM

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RazielZero said:
All that bullshit Gilgamesh brought up about him wishing that he would be able to find his wish or whatever was just ridiculous.


Why is that?

Kirei represents the worst of apathy of humanity that Gilgamesh sees in this era. Kirei finding reason to exist and finding why he exists would equal to Gilgamesh finding out answer to humanity's futile existence.
 
Oct 21, 2013 6:35 PM

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The interaction between Kirei and Gilgamesh was well done. Kirei didn't consciously know that he desired Kariya's suffering but Gilgamesh helped him see that this was in fact the case. Kirei either truly wasn't aware or was suppressing it his whole life
Either way, it's kind of nice to see that he was in fact this way before he becomes really jaded in F/SN.
-What do you mean life doesn't work like my Chinese cartoons!?
 
Nov 3, 2013 11:54 AM

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phantom19 said:
The interaction between Kirei and Gilgamesh was well done. Kirei didn't consciously know that he desired Kariya's suffering but Gilgamesh helped him see that this was in fact the case. Kirei either truly wasn't aware or was suppressing it his whole life
Either way, it's kind of nice to see that he was in fact this way before he becomes really jaded in F/SN.


He is not jaded. Kirei and Shirou both are essentially sociopaths, that are unable to FEEL, but presented by different ways they can feel emotions - Kirei from malice, Shirou from noble deeds.
 
Feb 4, 2014 3:11 PM

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Excellent episode as always.
 
Mar 5, 2014 9:31 PM

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The dialogue between Gilgamesh and Kirei was very fascinating. It seems Gilgamesh has planted seeds of desire into Kirei's mind. He mentioned that he'll need to steal another servant if he hopes to take on the King of Heroes. My guess is, since he's already fascinated with it, he'll try to take the Berserker. Hard to believe the first season is almost over, this is too addicting.
 
Mar 5, 2014 10:14 PM

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Ratohnhaketon said:
The dialogue between Gilgamesh and Kirei was very fascinating. It seems Gilgamesh has planted seeds of desire into Kirei's mind. He mentioned that he'll need to steal another servant if he hopes to take on the King of Heroes. My guess is, since he's already fascinated with it, he'll try to take the Berserker. Hard to believe the first season is almost over, this is too addicting.
Look at the chess piece Gilgamesh was holding at the end.
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Mar 5, 2014 10:19 PM

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ssjokg said:
Ratohnhaketon said:
The dialogue between Gilgamesh and Kirei was very fascinating. It seems Gilgamesh has planted seeds of desire into Kirei's mind. He mentioned that he'll need to steal another servant if he hopes to take on the King of Heroes. My guess is, since he's already fascinated with it, he'll try to take the Berserker. Hard to believe the first season is almost over, this is too addicting.
Look at the chess piece Gilgamesh was holding at the end.


Maybe it's only really obvious to those of us who read Fate/stay night?
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
Mar 5, 2014 10:27 PM

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insan3Spectre said:
ssjokg said:
Ratohnhaketon said:
The dialogue between Gilgamesh and Kirei was very fascinating. It seems Gilgamesh has planted seeds of desire into Kirei's mind. He mentioned that he'll need to steal another servant if he hopes to take on the King of Heroes. My guess is, since he's already fascinated with it, he'll try to take the Berserker. Hard to believe the first season is almost over, this is too addicting.
Look at the chess piece Gilgamesh was holding at the end.


Maybe it's only really obvious to those of us who read Fate/stay night?

Maybe but the only thing that is missing is a giant neon sign saying "Pick me,PICK ME".
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Mar 30, 2014 9:25 PM

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hmm I wonder why Kirei dislikes Kamiya's motive the most. I mean, its naive and desperate, but he is trying to help someone. Its a bit narrow minded though considering if he really did win the grail he could help many people with a particular wish.

what a shallow view of happiness Gilgamesh has: Entertainment-pleasure-happiness? Many things can bring pleasure besides entertainment, for instance: learning or relationships.

Also I'm also morbidly curious about the fucked up version of Christianity Kirei subscribes to.
Modified by DaydreamHero, Mar 30, 2014 9:38 PM
Love and Peace!!!
 
Mar 31, 2014 3:52 AM

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Thund3r1 said:
hmm I wonder why Kirei dislikes Kamiya's motive the most. I mean, its naive and desperate, but he is trying to help someone. Its a bit narrow minded though considering if he really did win the grail he could help many people with a particular wish.

what a shallow view of happiness Gilgamesh has: Entertainment-pleasure-happiness? Many things can bring pleasure besides entertainment, for instance: learning or relationships.

Also I'm also morbidly curious about the fucked up version of Christianity Kirei subscribes to.

Kirei doesnt dislike Kariya's motive.How did you reach that conclusion?But every san eman would understand that death would be a salvation for someone like Kariya.

For some people learning IS entertainment.

The Catholic Church.But it isnt the Church's fault he is like this.
And many Christians,including leading figures were fucked up without having Kirei.Kirei at least KNOWS what is right and wrong.
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Mar 31, 2014 4:36 AM

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Thund3r1 said:
hmm I wonder why Kirei dislikes Kamiya's motive the most. I mean, its naive and desperate, but he is trying to help someone. Its a bit narrow minded though considering if he really did win the grail he could help many people with a particular wish.

what a shallow view of happiness Gilgamesh has: Entertainment-pleasure-happiness? Many things can bring pleasure besides entertainment, for instance: learning or relationships.

Also I'm also morbidly curious about the fucked up version of Christianity Kirei subscribes to.


Kariya is insane guy ridden with worms who is barely able to discern reality from insanity. Death is an escape of that

Gil comes from civilization that had spaceships, nuclear missiles, alien weaponry and was lightyears away from our civilization in terms of technology. Learning is part of entertainment for him.

Kirei is part of christian church but he doe snot have a belief of christian church. He does not have a "belief" period, because that would imply identity and void people(read: sociopaths) do NOT have identities. If anything, Kirei has an advantage of an outsiders view into human emotion and human bias, because right and wrong are not something that depends on his feelings, since he has none.
 
Mar 31, 2014 9:51 PM

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Fai said:
Thund3r1 said:
hmm I wonder why Kirei dislikes Kamiya's motive the most. I mean, its naive and desperate, but he is trying to help someone. Its a bit narrow minded though considering if he really did win the grail he could help many people with a particular wish.

what a shallow view of happiness Gilgamesh has: Entertainment-pleasure-happiness? Many things can bring pleasure besides entertainment, for instance: learning or relationships.

Also I'm also morbidly curious about the fucked up version of Christianity Kirei subscribes to.


Kirei is part of christian church but he doe snot have a belief of christian church. He does not have a "belief" period, because that would imply identity and void people(read: sociopaths) do NOT have identities. If anything, Kirei has an advantage of an outsiders view into human emotion and human bias, because right and wrong are not something that depends on his feelings, since he has none.


what the... I gotta stop asking questions to avoid spoilers.

Kirei's something a little different than a sociopath. I believe sociopaths don't have empathy but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have emotion. To be nearly emotionless/ have a great deal of difficulty recognizing ones own emotions is something different, although, he could still be a sociopath on top of that. I can't quite tell at this point.

ssjokg said:
Kirei doesnt dislike Kariya's motive.How did you reach that conclusion?But every san eman would understand that death would be a salvation for someone like Kariya.


I get that death would be a relief Kariya. I believe Kirei said something like 'In a sense Kariya has the most dispicable motives out of the 5' or something like that
Modified by DaydreamHero, Mar 31, 2014 10:01 PM
Love and Peace!!!
 
Apr 1, 2014 12:31 AM

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Thund3r1 said:
Fai said:
Thund3r1 said:
hmm I wonder why Kirei dislikes Kamiya's motive the most. I mean, its naive and desperate, but he is trying to help someone. Its a bit narrow minded though considering if he really did win the grail he could help many people with a particular wish.

what a shallow view of happiness Gilgamesh has: Entertainment-pleasure-happiness? Many things can bring pleasure besides entertainment, for instance: learning or relationships.

Also I'm also morbidly curious about the fucked up version of Christianity Kirei subscribes to.


Kirei is part of christian church but he doe snot have a belief of christian church. He does not have a "belief" period, because that would imply identity and void people(read: sociopaths) do NOT have identities. If anything, Kirei has an advantage of an outsiders view into human emotion and human bias, because right and wrong are not something that depends on his feelings, since he has none.


what the... I gotta stop asking questions to avoid spoilers.

Kirei's something a little different than a sociopath. I believe sociopaths don't have empathy but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have emotion. To be nearly emotionless/ have a great deal of difficulty recognizing ones own emotions is something different, although, he could still be a sociopath on top of that. I can't quite tell at this point.

ssjokg said:
Kirei doesnt dislike Kariya's motive.How did you reach that conclusion?But every san eman would understand that death would be a salvation for someone like Kariya.


I get that death would be a relief Kariya. I believe Kirei said something like 'In a sense Kariya has the most dispicable motives out of the 5' or something like that

Not spoilers.
Something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana is part of the myths about ancient civilazitions having alien tech.

Fai doesnt mean that Kirei has no emotion.He means that he is able to see things with less bias than ordinary people because he doesnt depend on those emotions.

In the novel it says the "most ordinary".I dont know if the anime subs"vulgar and banal" are are too liberal or if the script was changed to include his opinion about Kariya's goal in comparison with a true magi's goal.
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Apr 2, 2014 3:41 PM

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ssjokg said:

Not spoilers.
Something like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana is part of the myths about ancient civilazitions having alien tech.

Also :
Fate/Extra


A VERY big reason on why Gil does what he does in F/0 and FSN is because


Thund3r1 said:

what the... I gotta stop asking questions to avoid spoilers.

Its not directly stated, but it is heavily implied that most of the "ancient alien" myths as far as Gil's civilization is concerned - were true.



Kirei's something a little different than a sociopath. I believe sociopaths don't have empathy but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have emotion. To be nearly emotionless/ have a great deal of difficulty recognizing ones own emotions is something different, although, he could still be a sociopath on top of that. I can't quite tell at this point.

There are different degrees of sociopathy and yes, Kirei does not exactly "fit" that description.

He recognizes emotion in others, he simply can't quite "feel" them for himself or for others and it is essentially what is tearing him apart psychologically, so he studies and imitates others.

However not "feeling" them also allows him to look at those said emotions with a somewhat clear head, because he finds them fascinating.


I get that death would be a relief Kariya. I believe Kirei said something like 'In a sense Kariya has the most dispicable motives out of the 5' or something like that


as ssjokg said, bad choice of words.

What is meant to say is that Kariya's motive is the furthest removed from usual magi goals.
 
Apr 18, 2014 5:35 AM

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If assasins dead why cant kirei summon a new servent
 
Apr 18, 2014 7:54 AM

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_DoctorWho_ said:
If assasins dead why cant kirei summon a new servent
Because the summoning used mana that was collected for the last 60 years.
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Apr 29, 2014 1:16 PM

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That was such an epic episode!!!
 
May 7, 2014 2:09 AM

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1. Very dialog heavy. Looks like archer helped kirei find his joy

2. I thought if ur servant dies, ur out of the game…

6/10
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May 22, 2014 8:26 PM
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Heyyyyyyyyyy I remember that house.Oh poor iris must suck to have to shut a part of your body down.Wait what the hell I thought you could only be picked once? Also its clear that gil wants kiri to kill his master.
 
May 22, 2014 11:54 PM

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souledge94 said:
Wait what the hell I thought you could only be picked once?

No one said any such rule. As long as you have a servant, you are in the war. Its not even about "being picked", all that it takes to enter the war is correctly summoning a servant when grail is active. And all that it takes to stay in the war is having a servant contracted to you.
 
May 23, 2014 7:37 PM
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Fai said:
souledge94 said:
Wait what the hell I thought you could only be picked once?

No one said any such rule. As long as you have a servant, you are in the war. Its not even about "being picked", all that it takes to enter the war is correctly summoning a servant when grail is active. And all that it takes to stay in the war is having a servant contracted to you.


So basically if you can steal someone elses servent while you have the mark your good.
Modified by souledge94, May 23, 2014 7:58 PM
 
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