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Poll: Fate/Zero Episode 12 Discussion


Dec 19, 2011 1:14 AM

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Thess said:
They won't cram the Caster fight, IMO. This season will end in a cliffhanger!
A BIG cliffhanger! :P
 
Dec 19, 2011 6:21 AM

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Awesome episode..awesome chessboard...awesome conversation...
it show Gilgamesh's intellect....

I wonder what's Gilgamesh up to...
 
Dec 19, 2011 10:15 AM

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LunarMoon said:
Great episode, with excellent foreshadowing. It's nice to see the animation is back to its usual level, but it could've used more music during the SaberxIri scenes. On another note, I'm wondering how the next episode will be done, since it seems that they put a lot of work into insuring that the first season will finish on a cliff hanger; part of me is hoping for a one hour finale, but then part of me realizes that this probably isn't realistic, for multiple reasons.

WhiteFrenzy said:
I really don't understand these people who thinks that an episode without kicks and punches and magical powers isn't an episode at all. Dammit, this's annoying.

Two Theories on this:

1) Fate Zero is high profile enough to attract anime noobs, whose only previous viewing experience amounts to shonen fighters such as Naruto and Bleach, so they automatically expect that any other anime that they watch is going to be similar to Naruto and Bleach. Such people would most likely also complain about anime such as Crest of the Stars or Serial Experiment Lain, but probably don't know about them since they're more obscure.

2) Most people who watch anime primarily for the fighting know well enough to stay away from shows such as Clannad or Mushishi. No one goes into an episode of Clannad expecting Nagisa to whip out her new jutsu, though Fate Zero has enough of an emphasis on action to fool the previously mentioned people into thinking that it's going to be similar to Bleach. "Main character has a sword? LOL bankai!" The people raving about Haruhi and Kino's Journey are from a completely different group than those complaining about the lack of action in each episode of Fate Zero.

^^This and thank you
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Dec 19, 2011 10:33 AM

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Thess said:
Yeap. Heaven's Feel route is the only route that fits Fate/Zero as proper continuation, IMO. Theme wise and mood wise, Fate and UBW are completely against the atmosphere.


I agree Heaven's Feel would make a good sequel to Fate/Zero, it definitely fits the mood. But I still really want to see an Ufotable version of the Fate and UBW route as well, because Studio Deen screwed up there.
 
Dec 19, 2011 10:55 AM
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Thess said:
Day2Dream said:
Episode kinda confused me on the whole servant/master thing now. F/S Night gave me the impression that masters kept their command spell when their servant died. :o


They do. Kirei's the son of the moderator, he could have his removed (also, he can remove command spells). Until the Holy Grail trolled him.
This is not well-explained. I think the "mark" remains as a sort of birthmark but the command spells themselves leave. As Assassin is dead Kirei's command spells were redistributed (back to him again as it turns out). His old command spells should have left a "mark" where they used to be though, but it's not something easily noticeable (not in the same way some bright red mark would be).

 
Dec 19, 2011 1:21 PM

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Okaishi said:
Thess said:
Yeap. Heaven's Feel route is the only route that fits Fate/Zero as proper continuation, IMO. Theme wise and mood wise, Fate and UBW are completely against the atmosphere.


I agree Heaven's Feel would make a good sequel to Fate/Zero, it definitely fits the mood. But I still really want to see an Ufotable version of the Fate and UBW route as well, because Studio Deen screwed up there.


Yeah, being neutral about it, UBW never really resolves any of the plotlines that appear in Fate Zero (the Tohsaka/Matou deal goes pretty much unspoken, Kotomine vs Emiya also goes unspoken, the Grail stuff isn't addressed well, ZOUKEN doesn't appear, Illya's killed off early on, etc). Fate addresses mostly the Saber issues (unfortunately, they also attach her to a poorly written romance with a Japanese teenage boy that makes little sense but oh well, being Saber is suffering) and some Gil-Kotomine stuff but nowhere as full grimdark or thematic. Heaven's Feel DOES shaft Saber and Gilgamesh (although, Saber's end had a foreshadowing in Zero), but the rest of the stuff is properly addressed, including Third Magic, the real purpose of the Grail, etc.

Sorry, Goldie ;-:

I guess they could cut one kitchen scene and replace it with Gilgamesh vs Saber king babbling... to get this summarized and put it at rest.
Modified by Thess, Dec 19, 2011 1:25 PM
 
Dec 19, 2011 2:15 PM

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Archer wants Kirei as his Master (I understand that way). this is interesting. I'm wondering what's Kirei's wish...
 
Dec 19, 2011 2:36 PM

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Thess said:
xAwakeAlivex said:
Okay, i know you guys are gonna hate me for this , but the Gil/Kirei scene was just... my first thought was 'And here come the fanart', okay i lied it was the seond thought , the first being : 'Eeeep Gilgamesh! I love this guy'. And when Gil said : ''Now you must steal a Servant (...)'' i could almost HEAR him saying something along the lines of ''So, come and steal me Kirei'' xDDD Yeah, and Archer didn't pick up a chess piece that was an actual Archer figure on purpose or anything....


Why would anyone? Both Gilgamesh and Alexander the Great are pretty famous figures in the homosexual community (before Fate, I mean the epic/historical versions) because of their bisexuality (leaning on the homoromances side). Heck, Saber herself was married to a woman.


Oh yeah I forgot to comment on this. I'm well aware that Alexander the Great was homosexual. But I never knew Gil was. I read the epic of Gilgamesh (for a myth class back in high school) a couple of years ago and I don't remember anything indicating that. Unless I missed something.
 
Dec 19, 2011 2:39 PM

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Thess said:
Yeah, being neutral about it, UBW never really resolves any of the plotlines that appear in Fate Zero (the Tohsaka/Matou deal goes pretty much unspoken, Kotomine vs Emiya also goes unspoken, the Grail stuff isn't addressed well, ZOUKEN doesn't appear, Illya's killed off early on, etc). Fate addresses mostly the Saber issues (unfortunately, they also attach her to a poorly written romance with a Japanese teenage boy that makes little sense but oh well, being Saber is suffering) and some Gil-Kotomine stuff but nowhere as full grimdark or thematic. Heaven's Feel DOES shaft Saber and Gilgamesh (although, Saber's end had a foreshadowing in Zero), but the rest of the stuff is properly addressed, including Third Magic, the real purpose of the Grail, etc.


Most of what you say just further elaborates why Heaven's Feel would be a better sequel to Fate/Zero plot and setting wise, and I can't really disagree with most of it. Even so, I don't think Fate and UBW are unworthy of a decent adaptation and this is why I'd enjoy a remake of these routes. And I don't agree with the poorly written romance part, but everyone has their tastes I suppose. Personally I was most moved by Fate's end, I thought it was really well done. You're free to disagree ofcourse.
 
Dec 19, 2011 2:54 PM

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sallym613 said:
Oh yeah I forgot to comment on this. I'm well aware that Alexander the Great was homosexual. But I never knew Gil was. I read the epic of Gilgamesh (for a myth class back in high school) a couple of years ago and I don't remember anything indicating that. Unless I missed something.


He was bisexual (although technically, he was EVERYTHINGIRULEsexual?). Enkidu was made lit. to restrain his lust by the gods as his perfect complement (and he's being compared as how a spouse would be now, including the sexual/romantic connotations: woman/wife/etc in text. The whole caressing and hand-holding). They were soulmates. Achilles-Patroclus style.

Anyone Gil likes in Fate is because of any SIMILITUDE with Enkidu. The way he sees women seems mostly object-rapeish due to his era standard (while homolust is more consensual).

Okaishi said:
Most of what you say just further elaborates why Heaven's Feel would be a better sequel to Fate/Zero plot and setting wise, and I can't really disagree with most of it. Even so, I don't think Fate and UBW are unworthy of a decent adaptation and this is why I'd enjoy a remake of these routes. And I don't agree with the poorly written romance part, but everyone has their tastes I suppose. Personally I was most moved by Fate's end, I thought it was really well done. You're free to disagree ofcourse.


I mean in the UNLIKELY case ufotable produce it and pimp it as 'sequel'. Get Gen to do the script please. ;;

I like the three routes. I don't have A favorite, but favorite moments, per se. I dislike the way Saber is treated outside of Fate myself.

Oh I like Saber/Shirou a bit (mostly because whatever gives her rest in peace works), but... eh, intellectually, I can't fully buy 20-30s years old King Arthur falling for a random teenage boy she met in less than two weeks (she might look 14 years old, but she certainly isn't). He doesn't even look anything remotely special? If he had Gilgamesh's or dunno Diarmuid's looks, maybe Arthuria's attraction would be justified by the physical side until they grow closer. But Shirou is... meh.

I do think the relationship was moving, but it would have worked better if was kept nonsexual/nonromantic aside of a hint here or there (see Bazett and Avenger/Angra Mainyu in Ataraxia or Shirou and Illya in HF. Hell, Waver and Rider in Fate Zero, is another. They had more impact with me as realistic, because there was no forced romance. Bazett and Avenger did this for each other without sex or romance and it was touching as hell for me, in fact, Avenger's and Bazett's love interests are other people!).
Modified by Thess, Dec 19, 2011 3:10 PM
 
Dec 19, 2011 3:12 PM

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Thess said:
I like the three routes. I don't have A favorite, but favorite moments, per se. I dislike the way Saber is treated outside of Fate myself.

Oh I like Saber/Shirou a bit (mostly because whatever gives her rest in peace works), but... eh, intellectually, I can't buy 20-30s years old King Arthur falling for a random teenage boy she met in less than two weeks (she might look 14 years old, but she certainly isn't). I do think the relationship was moving, but it would have worked better if was kept nonsexual/nonromantic aside of a hint here or there (see Bazett and Avenger/Angra Mainyu in Ataraxia or Shirou and Illya in HF. Hell, Waver and Rider in Fate Zero, is another. They had more impact with me as realistic, because there was no forced romance).


I'm going to put this in a spoiler tag just to be on the safe side.
Modified by Okaishi, Dec 19, 2011 3:26 PM
 
Dec 19, 2011 4:39 PM

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Okaishi said:


Modified by Thess, Dec 19, 2011 4:52 PM
 
Dec 19, 2011 6:24 PM

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Thess said:
sallym613 said:
Oh yeah I forgot to comment on this. I'm well aware that Alexander the Great was homosexual. But I never knew Gil was. I read the epic of Gilgamesh (for a myth class back in high school) a couple of years ago and I don't remember anything indicating that. Unless I missed something.


He was bisexual (although technically, he was EVERYTHINGIRULEsexual?). Enkidu was made lit. to restrain his lust by the gods as his perfect complement (and he's being compared as how a spouse would be now, including the sexual/romantic connotations: woman/wife/etc in text. The whole caressing and hand-holding). They were soulmates. Achilles-Patroclus style.

Anyone Gil likes in Fate is because of any SIMILITUDE with Enkidu. The way he sees women seems mostly object-rapeish due to his era standard (while homolust is more consensual).


Couldn't help but rofl at the bolded part xD

But anyways, that's interesting. I had the impression that it was just a really special grown-men/best-friend relationship between them. Instead of what you just explained. I really dont remember the whole "caressing and hand-holding" parts though. Guess I should go reread the epic if I can find a copy.
 
Dec 19, 2011 7:05 PM

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sallym613 said:
But anyways, that's interesting. I had the impression that it was just a really special grown-men/best-friend relationship between them. Instead of what you just explained. I really dont remember the whole "caressing and hand-holding" parts though. Guess I should go reread the epic if I can find a copy.


He is his best friend, but in that era, that involved sex... Kind of like you hug your friends now or kiss their cheeks. The comrades were usually your life partner in every sense (while the wives were there only to bear a heir and continue the bloodline). Ninsun told Gil: "You will love him as a woman and he will never forsake you". As a woman indicates... you know. When Gil mourns him in the epic, he's described as a widow and a bride grief.

Technically, Enkidu isn't a man either, he's an androgynous being made of mud (some descriptions of him are pretty androgynous, which is what the Fate/strange fake stuff was based on. It's not an asspull like Nero or Arthur). Sometimes Enkidu is referred as "It" in the tablets.

Modified by Thess, Dec 19, 2011 7:11 PM
 
Dec 19, 2011 7:43 PM

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Thess said:
sallym613 said:
But anyways, that's interesting. I had the impression that it was just a really special grown-men/best-friend relationship between them. Instead of what you just explained. I really dont remember the whole "caressing and hand-holding" parts though. Guess I should go reread the epic if I can find a copy.


He is his best friend, but in that era, that involved sex... Kind of like you hug your friends now or kiss their cheeks. The comrades were usually your life partner in every sense (while the wives were there only to bear a heir and continue the bloodline). Ninsun told Gil: "You will love him as a woman and he will never forsake you". As a woman indicates... you know. When Gil mourns him in the epic, he's described as a widow and a bride grief.

Technically, Enkidu isn't a man either, he's an androgynous being made of mud (some descriptions of him are pretty androgynous, which is what the Fate/strange fake stuff was based on. It's not an asspull like Nero or Arthur). Sometimes Enkidu is referred as "It" in the tablets.



Oh I see. That aspect of the culture..I didn't know. And I almost forgot about Enkidu's origins until you mentioned it xD

Also, I have very strong mixed feelings about Enkidu being a...she in Fate/Strange fake? o.O Nvm. I just confirmed his "gender" after checking Typemoon wiki.

Nevertheless, when I first heard about Fate/Strange Fake and that Enkidu was in it, I decided to check out how his character looks like. And my initial reaction was: O__O Wth. Considering how I've always had the impression that he would look something like this:
http://www.zerochan.net/808843
Well...it was a pretty big surprise for me when I first saw the character design.


Thanks for the insights btw.
 
Dec 19, 2011 8:01 PM
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I'll not bother quotiong the part I want to answer since it's in between a lot of text but, something I want to remind you of the Rin/Shirou deal:



Phew.

 
Dec 19, 2011 9:55 PM

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sallym613 said:
Oh I see. That aspect of the culture..I didn't know. And I almost forgot about Enkidu's origins until you mentioned it xD

Also, I have very strong mixed feelings about Enkidu being a...she in Fate/Strange fake? o.O Nvm. I just confirmed his "gender" after checking Typemoon wiki.

Nevertheless, when I first heard about Fate/Strange Fake and that Enkidu was in it, I decided to check out how his character looks like. And my initial reaction was: O__O Wth. Considering how I've always had the impression that he would look something like this:
http://www.zerochan.net/808843
Well...it was a pretty big surprise for me when I first saw the character design.


Thanks for the insights btw.


TBH, I like manlier Enkidu better, but I like the green hair (somehow the connection to nature fits Gilgamesh's gold-metal as complement). The whole thing of having the face of a woman is on some takes of the epic/legend, so... it's accurate (not a Saber case). This is the closest to a canon Enkidu (from Complete character materials) FOR NOW:




Enkidu, the fairest of all. Only the best for the King of Heroes. I don't think Enkidu is fully female, it's just genderless? He certainly has a bishie-boyish male voice in the Fate Zero CD drama. It's a person made of mud who shapeshifted itself. Probably can be whatever they want (was beastly first, then not, etc).
Modified by Thess, Dec 19, 2011 10:02 PM
 
Dec 19, 2011 10:06 PM

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Thess said:
TBH, I like manlier Enkidu better, but I like the green hair (somehow the connection to nature fits Gilgamesh's gold-metal as complement). The whole thing of having the face of a woman is on some takes of the epic/legend, so... it's accurate (not a Saber case). This is the closest to a canon Enkidu (from Complete character materials):



Same here. Tbh, I really thought of Enkidu as someone very hairy with a big body build. I was going to show you another fanfic picture that has the perfect impression or image that I have of him in mind but I couldn't find it anymore online (at least on zerochan)

You pointed out something interesting about the reason why they made Enkidu's hair green. I've actually always wondered why they chose green out of all the other hair colors they could have chosen. I was thinking that they could have made his hair brown (I'm thinking about his origins of how he was made from mud) but I guess the green hair isn't too bad. I was initially baffled about why they chose green, let alone that shade of green.

Hmmm..I don't remember the parts about Enkidu having a face of a woman. That's probably the main reason why I reacted like I did when I first saw Fate/Strange Fake's version of Enkidu. I was expecting him to look more...manlier with a huge body xD Not someone...somewhat petite-looking. I admit though..Enkidu has a pretty (in a feminine way) face lol.
 
Dec 20, 2011 12:03 AM

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sallym613 said:
Thess said:
TBH, I like manlier Enkidu better, but I like the green hair (somehow the connection to nature fits Gilgamesh's gold-metal as complement). The whole thing of having the face of a woman is on some takes of the epic/legend, so... it's accurate (not a Saber case). This is the closest to a canon Enkidu (from Complete character materials):



Same here. Tbh, I really thought of Enkidu as someone very hairy with a big body build. I was going to show you another fanfic picture that has the perfect impression or image that I have of him in mind but I couldn't find it anymore online (at least on zerochan)

You pointed out something interesting about the reason why they made Enkidu's hair green. I've actually always wondered why they chose green out of all the other hair colors they could have chosen. I was thinking that they could have made his hair brown (I'm thinking about his origins of how he was made from mud) but I guess the green hair isn't too bad. I was initially baffled about why they chose green, let alone that shade of green.

Hmmm..I don't remember the parts about Enkidu having a face of a woman. That's probably the main reason why I reacted like I did when I first saw Fate/Strange Fake's version of Enkidu. I was expecting him to look more...manlier with a huge body xD Not someone...somewhat petite-looking. I admit though..Enkidu has a pretty (in a feminine way) face lol.


The one who was supposed to be manly and beardy is Gilgamesh.

Swap his design with Alexander the Great and you get a closer appearance for both of them lol.

http://www.piney.com/Enki.html

Read that. Enkidu was originally hairy and bestial because he communed with animals (including er bestiality lol Mesopotamians), but after meeting Shamhat, he molded himself to resemble her.
 
Dec 20, 2011 3:30 AM

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So i guess Gilgamesh finally offered himself to Kirei, if only subtly :) He's too proud to say it directly. :) I like how he awakens the sadistic bastard side of Kirei we knew and loved in F/SN.
 
Dec 20, 2011 9:27 AM

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Lestrade said:
While quite uneventful this episode was very interesting nonetheless.
I really like how the equality of all masters is reinforced once again hence the small number of defeated servants. Hell, if Kirei would have cared about the grail to begin with Assassin probably would have been still alive.

I guess the spells Irisviel casted in the storehouse are the reason why Saber got summoned by Shiro unintentionally one decade later.

Overall, this episode mainly served to give the viewers more information concerning the rules of the holy grail war but it also fleshed out Kirei's character. I think it is also the first time when Kirei is seen losing his composure. Archer certainly did a nice job in analyzing Kirei's true nature which even Kirei himself wasn't fully aware of. Everything is set up for Kirei's betrayal of his mentor now...

On another note I wonder what Kirei sees in Kariya as Archer pointed out since he doesn't seem to pose such a great threat. Though, it would be convenient to have him as the last opponent to face as one could just wait until Kariya is weakened to such a extent that he isn't able to control Berserker anymore and would be an easy prey, I guess.

Looks like we get to see Lancer and Caster next episode. I wonder if one of them will bite the dust seeing that it will be the last episode before the break .


That, and also Shiro has avalon.
Kariya is suffering, and he will likely suffer to his death. I guess that makes Kirei a sadist? :/

Yea, can't wait for the next episode.. probably some epic scramble to kill Caster for the extra reward
オタクなんじゃねぃよ
I'm not an otaku.
 
Dec 20, 2011 3:01 PM

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Thess said:


Modified by Okaishi, Dec 20, 2011 3:05 PM
 
Dec 20, 2011 3:07 PM

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Gil is such a sadistic king XD and geez he really drinks a lot, doesnt he? XP

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Dec 20, 2011 3:23 PM

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Gilgamesh you sly dog, what do you mean?? Great episode, although at this point I crave for some mad servant action!!
 
Dec 20, 2011 7:21 PM

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Okaishi said:


Modified by Thess, Dec 20, 2011 7:25 PM
 
Dec 20, 2011 8:07 PM

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I remerber that this season has 13 EP.
Gill's chessboard make a lot of hint from staff, actually I think it preview a lot of change of the relationship between master and servent.
Umm..I think next EP will show stop at rider's attack~
 
Dec 20, 2011 9:46 PM

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Awesome episode. I can't believe an episode filled with dialogue went by so fast.

The conversation with Gil and Kotomine was really interesting. Hopefully the finale of this season will end well.
 
Dec 21, 2011 6:44 AM

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Thess said:


Modified by Okaishi, Dec 21, 2011 6:49 AM
 
Dec 21, 2011 8:14 AM

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I enjoyed the episode, but then again its difficult for me to not enjoy a Fate/Zero episode, especially one with Kirei and Gilgamesh being Kirei and Gilgamesh.
Season 1 has been very good and I hope they finish it on a high note. It will be painful to wait for the 2nd season though, maybe I'll read the LN but I'm not sure.

And regarding Thess and Okaishi's discussion, I'm gonna have to agree with Thess, I didn't care for Last Episode that much, I thought Fate's ending was good the way it was(one of the strongest points of the route in my opinion), no reason for it to be "expanded". But I guess it was a nice treat for Saber fans. As for which girl was more suited for Shirou, it's a matter of preference...
Modified by Lynx_7, Dec 21, 2011 10:55 AM
 
Dec 21, 2011 11:01 AM
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What? ALL of Assassin was killed last episode? Heh, I thought there would have been more.

Holy crap, the new base looks a lot like that "inn" in Fate/stay Night.

Oh damn, Gilgamesh's constant questioning finally broke Kirei's current state of mind. But...why would he need to steal another Servant? Hell, I'm just confused. A Master lost his Servant so the Command Seals should have been given to the judge who is Kirei's dad right? Why would he get them again if a Servant was the one that died and not a Master?
 
Dec 21, 2011 12:00 PM
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ChronosXIII said:
What? ALL of Assassin was killed last episode? Heh, I thought there would have been more.

Holy crap, the new base looks a lot like that "inn" in Fate/stay Night.

Oh damn, Gilgamesh's constant questioning finally broke Kirei's current state of mind. But...why would he need to steal another Servant? Hell, I'm just confused. A Master lost his Servant so the Command Seals should have been given to the judge who is Kirei's dad right? Why would he get them again if a Servant was the one that died and not a Master?
The judge gets them at the end of the War, not before it ends. And he needs to steal one because he's currently a Servant-less Master. Listen to Kirei's explanation again. If you yell that F/SN didn't had this happenning, just chalk it up to different writers.

 
Dec 21, 2011 5:07 PM

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More conversation between Kerei and Archer. Other than Rider, I'm high anticipating the events between those two and Tokiomi.
 
Dec 22, 2011 11:13 AM

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All right, pictures of episode 13 . the last of the season.

Nothing much to say, or see.

 
Dec 22, 2011 12:30 PM

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i really don't understand why Gil is so interesting about Kirie ?
 
Dec 22, 2011 1:24 PM
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loub31 said:
i really don't understand why Gil is so interesting about Kirie ?
Because Kirei is a sadistic bastard just like him. If you want to see what exactly made Kirei so interesting for Gilgamesh you'd have to play the VN's last route (where Kirei stops pretending and finally shows the reasons for his actions and his superhuman skills). You also have to keep in mind Gilgamesh doesn't really "love" women. He wanted Saber as an object. But he really truly bonded with Kirei.

In a way you can also say this of Alexander and his bond with his comrades (and with Waver).

 
Dec 22, 2011 4:49 PM

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Gamaliel said:
All right, pictures of episode 13 . the last of the season.

Nothing much to say, or see.


ehh!? Don't tell me that the fight would start a few seconds before the ep ends. No action does not mean bad but...I hope I'm wrong.
Tokiomi's fire was shown in the OP of this season, but they won't actually show him fight. Well I hope I'm wrong again.
Modified by ernst, Dec 22, 2011 9:06 PM
"Why do I always realize it... when I've already lost it..." -Guts, Berserk
"Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained." -Gilgamesh, Fate/stay night
"We are constantly living in a peaceful world that somebody else won for us. Even if it were only a day of peace, I will be grateful for its value." - Minashiro Tsubaki, FAFNER
"Screw you, future me!" -Makise Kurisu, Steins;Gate
"We used to show off by waging wars and whatnot." -Watashi, Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita
"Call me Moses. I'm going to part the sea of students before your eyes." -Moses?, Valvrave
"Time is guilty." -Andō & Tomoyo, INOU-Battle
 
Dec 22, 2011 5:00 PM
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What really sucks is that i just finished Fate Zero Night which completely destroyed this series's excitement. Although this episode wasn't very great because only 2 things were explained which is kinda small for an episode for me.
 
Dec 22, 2011 5:17 PM

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I think the first half of this will end with a super big cliffhanger and we have to wait another 3 months to enjoy the epic fight on the river.
I bet Fate 0 will have a big return and the 14th episode will be as nice as the first one.
 
Dec 23, 2011 6:32 AM

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Leon-Gun said:
loub31 said:
i really don't understand why Gil is so interesting about Kirie ?
Because Kirei is a sadistic bastard just like him. If you want to see what exactly made Kirei so interesting for Gilgamesh you'd have to play the VN's last route (where Kirei stops pretending and finally shows the reasons for his actions and his superhuman skills). You also have to keep in mind Gilgamesh doesn't really "love" women. He wanted Saber as an object. But he really truly bonded with Kirei.

In a way you can also say this of Alexander and his bond with his comrades (and with Waver).

i don't think that kirie is sadistic ; he was very angry when Gil told him that he was enjoy to watch karia suffer
 
Dec 23, 2011 6:50 AM

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loub31 said:
Leon-Gun said:
loub31 said:
i really don't understand why Gil is so interesting about Kirie ?
Because Kirei is a sadistic bastard just like him. If you want to see what exactly made Kirei so interesting for Gilgamesh you'd have to play the VN's last route (where Kirei stops pretending and finally shows the reasons for his actions and his superhuman skills). You also have to keep in mind Gilgamesh doesn't really "love" women. He wanted Saber as an object. But he really truly bonded with Kirei.

In a way you can also say this of Alexander and his bond with his comrades (and with Waver).

i don't think that kirie is sadistic ; he was very angry when Gil told him that he was enjoy to watch karia suffer


he works for the Church where he isnt supposed to have such "pleasures" as Gil puts it.If you had read Fate/stay night's Heaven's Feel and/or the Fate/zero's light novel it would be more easier to understand him
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Dec 23, 2011 7:50 AM

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loub31 said:
Leon-Gun said:
loub31 said:
i really don't understand why Gil is so interesting about Kirie ?
Because Kirei is a sadistic bastard just like him. If you want to see what exactly made Kirei so interesting for Gilgamesh you'd have to play the VN's last route (where Kirei stops pretending and finally shows the reasons for his actions and his superhuman skills). You also have to keep in mind Gilgamesh doesn't really "love" women. He wanted Saber as an object. But he really truly bonded with Kirei.

In a way you can also say this of Alexander and his bond with his comrades (and with Waver).

i don't think that kirie is sadistic ; he was very angry when Gil told him that he was enjoy to watch karia suffer


In short, he got angry because he didn't want to admit that's the case. People usually don't want to admit their dark side, THAT is why Kirei got angry. And, he most certainly is a sadist. That was the entire point to his character in Fate/stay night, he was in a similar situation as Shirou and went in the completely opposite path.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
Dec 23, 2011 8:29 AM

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I swear I could feel the attraction between Gilgamesh and Kirei :D

~ IA- Aria on the Planetes ~ Vocaloid V3 voiced by LiA (Clannad Afterstory, Angel Beats! theme song singer)
 
Dec 23, 2011 2:06 PM

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I'm slightly confused, if a Master loses their servant, they are out of the Grail War right? So then for another master to join again, wouldn't another master have died?
 
Dec 23, 2011 2:26 PM

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zhfac said:
I'm slightly confused, if a Master loses their servant, they are out of the Grail War right? So then for another master to join again, wouldn't another master have died?

Kirei explained it himself, the Grail will select the most fitting to be a master, if a previously selected fitting master got his servant defeated, he has a high chance of being reselected again. Thus, everyone must kill both master and servant. If the master died, now the grail loses a fitting choice and most likely that there are no other fitting magus to be selected, thus no more new players.
"Why do I always realize it... when I've already lost it..." -Guts, Berserk
"Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained." -Gilgamesh, Fate/stay night
"We are constantly living in a peaceful world that somebody else won for us. Even if it were only a day of peace, I will be grateful for its value." - Minashiro Tsubaki, FAFNER
"Screw you, future me!" -Makise Kurisu, Steins;Gate
"We used to show off by waging wars and whatnot." -Watashi, Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita
"Call me Moses. I'm going to part the sea of students before your eyes." -Moses?, Valvrave
"Time is guilty." -Andō & Tomoyo, INOU-Battle
 
Dec 23, 2011 8:18 PM

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Gamaliel said:
All right, pictures of episode 13 . the last of the season.

Nothing much to say, or see.



Time to clobber caster!

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Dec 23, 2011 9:07 PM

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ssjokg said:
loub31 said:
Leon-Gun said:
loub31 said:
i really don't understand why Gil is so interesting about Kirie ?
Because Kirei is a sadistic bastard just like him. If you want to see what exactly made Kirei so interesting for Gilgamesh you'd have to play the VN's last route (where Kirei stops pretending and finally shows the reasons for his actions and his superhuman skills). You also have to keep in mind Gilgamesh doesn't really "love" women. He wanted Saber as an object. But he really truly bonded with Kirei.

In a way you can also say this of Alexander and his bond with his comrades (and with Waver).

i don't think that kirie is sadistic ; he was very angry when Gil told him that he was enjoy to watch karia suffer


he works for the Church where he isnt supposed to have such "pleasures" as Gil puts it.If you had read Fate/stay night's Heaven's Feel and/or the Fate/zero's light novel it would be more easier to understand him


he really enjoy seeing someone suffer, he just denying himself
 
Dec 28, 2011 9:29 AM

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Assassin is really defeated this time, huh. I can only guess that Kirei likely used that one Command Spell to force Assassin to attack Rider all at once. The female Assassin's reaction in combat last episode tells me that they probably knew it was suicidal to attack the Servants gathered then, and that they had no choice but to obey. Kirei obediently ordering Assassin on a suicidal mission goes to show just how little he initially cared about the war.

It appears the Grail won't let him off that easy though, with the Command Spells manifesting again on his hand. Meaning, not only is he fit to be a Master, he might have also found a new reason to claim the Holy Grail as well. Kirei coming to that realization must be due in part to Archer's short speech. It looks like we can expect a betrayal sooner or later.

Apparently I was wrong about expecting Caster to bite the dust first, because he has a price on his head, but it's quite surprising that nobody's really taking the bait. Perhaps the reward of additional Command Spells isn't really that enticing, or everybody else is just too careful not to be distracted by what appears to be a diversion designed to keep them busy by hunting Caster.

Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like Irisviel's preparations in the storehouse pave the way for Shirou much later in the 5th war. That would explain his mysterious and rather spontaneous summoning of Saber.
 
Dec 30, 2011 5:48 AM

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Really great discussion between Gil and Kotomine. I was completely engrossed. Tomokazu Seki does a great job here.
"This Forest isn't going to reveal all its secrets for the likes of you."
 
Dec 31, 2011 9:13 AM

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This episode was kinda really boring with the whole episode consisting of dialogue... :/
 
Jan 7, 2012 3:43 PM

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Wait a second. Irisviel is a homonculus ? :o

Ahohime said:
This episode was kinda really boring with the whole episode consisting of dialogue... :/


Isn't this what makes Fate/Zero great in the first place? I personally don't really care about the battle because, so far, except the Rider vs Assassin fight, no one dies.
 
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