how many people on here take anime analytically

Offline

Mar 2009

5033

Statement of the obvious:

MAL's scoring system is:

10 = Masterpiece
9 = Great
8 = Very Good
7 = Good
6 = Fine
5 = Average
4 = Bad
3 = Very Bad
2 = Horrible
1 = Unwatchable

These are opinions and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

Example: I generally dislike school/romance/comedy/ecchi/wacky comedy and shounen/game/tournament. You won't find any in my 10's regardless of how popular and/or technically perfect they are. But you may find titles sharing some of those aspects in the 7, 6, 5 range and often dropped. They aren't bad or awful. I just don't like them.

My ratings are based on:

My level of emotional response + or - noticeable technical details. I can love something and grade it down a notch or two.

I don't see a 7 as a bad rating at all. Same for 6's and 5's. I just don't devote much time to what is my idea of the "mundane" when there is better stuff to be had.

Additionally, I think the more anime one has seen, the more discerning they become, making more critical choices, and grading them accordingly.

But then, this is just my subjective "opinions." ;-)

-animeS - The plural of anime is anime. More than one deer is still deer. There is no damn "s".
-epic |ˈepik| noun•a work portraying heroic deeds/adventures covering an long period of time - adjective • heroic/grand in scale or character
Active Military, Prior Service, and Veteran's Anime Club
http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=25937&time=1299710079

Dec 19, 2011 10:23 AM

#104

Offline

Oct 2011

502

Pero said:
Seems ideoidiom forgot to read the words next to the ratings. Saying things like "twisted rating" "against mainstream" and hipster (like if anyone being called that would to care), yet "5" is supposed to be average (moderate, regular, standard), not "7.5". If anything, going against the MAL "rule" would be going "twisted" and against mainstream. You have your own point of view, no need to justify it, even less welcomed to try to make it the only "right one" by doing weird (and forced) accusations against the rest.

Personally, I think your theory of school grading having so much influence over life and point of view is weak. No student I've known took them outside its context and time, quickly to forget about them and their inner workings. Besides MAL has an international user base with variative school grading systems, making it less relevant. When I hear rating, I think hotel star system, where one star means acceptable, never school grading. The reason why most MAL users rate high is actually much more simple, they like anime a lot.

Lol buddy. If you still didn't get my argument after I made it so obvious, I'm just gonna stop. The point of it is all relative and scarcity. Reread #93 and #97. The fact that the bulk of 'medicore' shows are in the 7s and not the 5s is proof that '7' is the neutral zone, and not 5. Again, find me a show rated 5 on average and get more than 3 people to agree that it's 'mediocre'. Therefore, 7 (or even high 6) is how pretty much how the mainstream views 'average'.

Dec 19, 2011 10:53 AM

#105

Offline

Mar 2009

5033

ideoidiom said:
'7' is the neutral zone, and not 5. Again, find me a show rated 5 on average and get more than 3 people to agree that it's 'mediocre'. Therefore, 7 (or even high 6) is how pretty much how the mainstream views 'average'.

-- I agree and like the the phrase "neutral zone."

I frequently recommend titles I have rated 6 and 7 if I think they are suited to the taste of the person requesting. I also know that many of my 10's are turn offs for many and consequently don't automatically recommend them. I think this speaks to my understanding the nature of analyzing the merits of a particular anime. How much I like it is another thing all together but it does determine my initial rating.

For the greater majority of people on MAL, ratings are subjective opinions and need to be viewed as such.

MAL's much maligned rating system does take into consideration the difference in Top Rated anime http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php and Popular Anime http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=bypopularity

Example:

15,404 members generate an average 9.10 rating for Legend of the Galactic Heroes

198,191 members generate an average 8.84 rating for Death Note

In relation to the OP's rating system:
-I do think about the "impact on the industry" something highly original may have.
-I don't read much manga so I don't care one whit about the original source material.
-I find I like the output of some studios more than others, but I really don't care.
-I might be interested to know what kind of impact it had on Japanese Pop Culture but it does not effect my rating. I don't think anime has much impact on Western Pop Culture at all. For good or ill, I do think Western Pop Culture can have an impact on anime.
-I might be interested to know what kind of impact it had on anime fandom but it does not effect my rating.
-Iconography of characters doesn't matter to me personally. Again, it is interesting to note how it effects fandom chatter.
-Nostalgia has some effect in keeping things I saw "back when" fairly high in my estimation. I have no difficulty in reassessing and changing ratings from time to time.
-I'm too intent on reading the subs to pay all that much attention to Seiyuu.
-There are some styles of art I like a lot and some I can't stand. If I can't stand it, I won't watch it, hence, no rating.
-Music is a bonus for me. Some anime I like uses music I wouldn't listen to anywhere else. I don't care if it was written specifically for the anime or not.

One can contrast but not compare anime fandom in Japan with anime fandom in the west.

lisnoireDec 19, 2011 11:55 AM

Dec 19, 2011 11:45 AM

#106

Offline

May 2011

2420

ideoidiom said:

For fucks sake, aren't you mixing mean scores to personal ratings here?

5 is average rating.
7.5 is average mean score.

You see, mean score is generated from users ratings. This is the rating scale what every user should use to make the mean score look right.

lisnoire said:
Statement of the obvious:

MAL's scoring system is:

10 = Masterpiece
9 = Great
8 = Very Good
7 = Good
6 = Fine
5 = Average
4 = Bad
3 = Very Bad
2 = Horrible
1 = Unwatchable

Still thinking 7.5 average rating? I hope not.

[/fact]

I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls.

Dec 19, 2011 11:51 AM

#107

Offline

Mar 2009

5033

Karhu said:
Still thinking 7.5 average rating? I hope not.

--No. A 7.5 is a bit better than "good." 5 is "average" but frankly, I don't have much time for average.

Dec 19, 2011 11:58 AM

#108

Offline

May 2011

2420

lisnoire said:

Karhu said:
Still thinking 7.5 average rating? I hope not.

--No. A 7.5 is a bit better than "good." 5 is "average" but frankly, I don't have much time for average.

That was directed to ideoidiom, just quoted your posts, since you wrote the real MAL's rating scale. ^^,

I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls.

Dec 19, 2011 12:07 PM

#109

Offline

Oct 2011

502

You're forgetting two things.
1. They don't count unless they've seen 20% of the show.
2. Most people don't bother to finish what they hate (ie below 5), they really just omit it from their list altogether.

I couldn't care less about what the MAL scale suggests, but on what these values mean universally. The MAL scoring scale is just an tool and extension to how its users view things, nothing more. MajorMajorMajor said it best: "that the average score is only the average score among those who didn't hate it. If 7.5 is the average of the range of not-hate, then the full range is between 5 and 10."

Dec 19, 2011 12:29 PM

#110

AnnoKano

Offline

Sep 2009

3017

Let's not forget:

1. People who haven't joined this website's ratings don't count.
2. People who don't bother to update their list's ratings don't count.
3. People can create multiple accounts, and their ratings do count.
4. People can claim to have watched/read something all the way through when they haven't and their ratings still count.
5. People can claim to have watched/read stuff they haven't and their ratings still count.
6. People who haven't given LotGH a 10/10's ratings still count.
7. Peoples scoring systems deviate from MAL's and their ratings still count.
8. People who have only seen one show's ratings still count.

etc. etc. etc.

Losing an Argument online?

Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them!

WORKS EVERY TIME!

"I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact."
"THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!"

Dec 19, 2011 12:45 PM

#111

Offline

Mar 2008

553

ideoidiom said:
Lol buddy. If you still didn't get my argument after I made it so obvious, I'm just gonna stop. The point of it is all relative and scarcity. Reread #93 and #97. The fact that the bulk of 'medicore' shows are in the 7s and not the 5s is proof that '7' is the neutral zone, and not 5. Again, find me a show rated 5 on average and get more than 3 people to agree that it's 'mediocre'. Therefore, 7 (or even high 6) is how pretty much how the mainstream views 'average'.

You just gave me an exposition (MAL's mean score) and a conclusion (You can't see it, therefore it doesn't exist). If you wanted to make an incomplete argument, confuse me and see if I could catch up, I commend you, I do that sometimes, if not, and you were triying to simply negate an opossition with nothing, then I'll sigh to all the layers of that section. A simple "you're wrong" would have sufficed. Much less noise.

Granted, in my clumsy forum posting, I didn't read your "whole" argument, but, as you asked, I read your other posts and realized that, thanks to repetition, I actually did understood it, "MAL's mean score is like this because everyone concsiously think 7.5 means average ("mediocre" by you're own words) when rating thanks to the school grading systems, wich is why your rating is wrong"; and I gave my counter-arguments, for conversation's sake, including "the word average is next to 5" among other more relevant to your post. My real point being, saying your opinions are wrong is wrong, and you had the chance to comment to my post, wich you chose not to. Don't expect me to agree with only this.

Dec 19, 2011 1:24 PM

#112

Offline

Oct 2011

502

@Pero
Here, I'll make a summary.

*Ctrl-F* Pero on page 5. Oh lookie. 1 post that says absolutely nothing.

A recollection of what I said:

You seem to put a lot of emphasis on the importance of sound argument, yet all you've said to refute everything I've said didn't actually touch on any of my points to any satisfactory detail.

Basically, all you did was:

ideoidiomDec 19, 2011 5:17 PM

Dec 19, 2011 2:19 PM

#113

Offline

Mar 2008

553

Seems I'll have to explain things step by step(?) because you're just choosing to ignore every word to make a point(?).

ideoidiom said:
all you've said to refute everything I've said didn't actually touch on any of my points to any satisfactory detail.

Like I said, I was making conversation, I wasn't trying to refute anything, only not agreeing and inviting you to continue, witch you never seem to want to in favor of empty accusations and misdirections. Even pointed out my only real point.

ideoidiom said:
You seem to put a lot of emphasis on the importance of sound argument

It's called adapting to the same language. You criticized me for missing your argument, and I mentioned the lack of yours. Wouldn't have mentioned any other way.

ideoidiom said:
I couldn't care less about what the MAL scale suggests, but on what these values mean universally.

I said the 5 sentence was the less relevant of a post you said said nothing, yet you chose to aim it, sure, go at it. By itself, I don't think the MAL media means anything. So taking so much conclusions with only that piece of info seems lacking. That's the complete idea, unimportant and uninteresting, but there you have it if you want clear opposition.

ideoidiom said:
My main point:....

That's what I said when I tried to show you I understood what you said. My comments were, again, in the post you said said nothing, about why I don't think the school grading system has such an effect on people and why I think people rate the way they do, even had one person here agree about that point since then. Also, mentioned what other kind of ratings I think pop up in mind first. Again, an invitation for conversation not for misguided responses in circles.

ideoidiom said:
Oh lookie. 1 post that says absolutely nothing.

Oh, that means you realized your own post didn't meant anything? because before this post I didn't say it.

My major, and probably only, besides the teasing I was making, critiques were the repetition without listening and simple "you're wrong" answers, this doesn't help your case at all.

Edit: Once someone here told me that he wasn't angry (I didn't implied it) but I was the one angry instead. To make matters clear I always reply to direct posts, good or bad, and to pseudo-insulting(? not sure) ones, I'm direct. So I hope you don't get angry and see it as simple teasing at worst.

onewithflanDec 19, 2011 2:28 PM

Dec 19, 2011 2:37 PM

#114

Damaein

Offline

Dec 2011

640

I see there is a problem with my way of thinking then. I always try to love everything. Isn't it kind of depressing not to. I truly try to love every single anime and when I have been rating them (I am new to the site) I really try to rate based on my personal opinion. I would love for them to add some technical rating system such as a 5 point rating system for people who want to go in depth with the analysis. Have a separate rating for ART, MUSIC, PLOT, CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, XYZ.

I love reading reveiws of things to get other people opinions and I love seeing what others see because I am limited to my own eyes. I still tend to rate high because I forcefully throw myself into the world so that I can experience it. I truthfully try not to break the illusion of disbelief by rating anything. I simply experience it. I don't rate based on how I felt (angry, sad, good, or bad) but very on simply on "IF" I felt.

If something caused me to feel, then it becomes real. The more I feel the more the story has succeeded in doing its job. The chief job of anime, movies, books, music, art, or anything else entertainment oriented is to take something that may or may not be possible, plausible, or even wanted and transform it into something that will effect us. When I go to Disney, I don't rate the place on whether the people were authentic enough, or how much I liked the rides and definitely not on the price U_U. I would rate Disney on how it would effect my children and how they enjoy it. I believe most things are this way.

I find it odd how the simple can enjoy the simple but how the most intelligent and analytical can find dissatisfaction from the most technically perfect work. Not a knock or anything. I just think we should just experience the work with no preconceived ideas, ideals, or comparisons and see where we are left.

Life is always more fun when you don't know where your going. Obviously, IMHO and not the opinion of many I'm sure. Rating seem as though they are getting in the way of truly enjoying something for some I think.

Thanks for reading and I don't mean to come off as antagonistic with my first post. ^_^

text27 said:
yes if you read the whole thing...robots will only kill the people you put in-front of them so yeah.

RandomChampion said:
u were that homie in the thong werent u

Dec 19, 2011 2:44 PM

#115

Offline

Mar 2009

5033

AnnoKano said:
Let's not forget: . . .
6. People who haven't given LotGH a 10/10's ratings still count.

--Whut!? There are such people? Noooooooooooooooooo

Dec 19, 2011 2:46 PM

#116

Pocketasces

Offline

Jun 2011

1200

Welcome to MAL. im over this argument, there can be no winner.. some people just take longer to accept that

Dec 19, 2011 2:54 PM

#117

Offline

Mar 2008

553

OMG Damaeien. Best post ever. I think we should call this /thread (did I do it right?).

Now spam that post to ideoideom so he can see people simply love anime.

And if you think that's being antagonistic, I give you the biggest welcome to MAL.

Dec 19, 2011 3:09 PM

#118

MajorMajorMajor

Offline

Jul 2011

238

@Damaein (welcome to the site, dude)
Sounds legit. I agree that you have to try to greet the anime on its own terms, and I really like your idea of a five point rating system. I still think you should analyze what you read or watch, because that can often-times add to your enjoyment. When rating, I usually ask these questions:
-What was the intention of the creators of this anime?
-How successful were they in fulfilling they're ambition?
-Were there any elements that particularly added or subtracted from the overall experience?
-Did I enjoy it? (This is the most important one)

PS: I think the question of how something makes you feel is very important as well. If an anime makes you laugh when it was trying to make you cry, you know somethings up. ;)

PPS: Some anime expect to bring some form of emotional or philosophical baggage to the table from the get-go. Consider how Deathnote challenges your preconceptions on the death penalty, or how Evangelion would exploit everyone's uneasiness around religious imagery by blasting them with crucifixplosions. (probably not what you meant, but I wanted to use the word "crucifixplosion")

Dec 19, 2011 5:44 PM

#119

Offline

Oct 2011

502

I'm not sure if you were here for the whole duration of the argument, but this all started when Karhu was complaining about how people use only the higher half of the rating system (ie 7,8,9,10), and not the lower (1,2,3,4,5,6) as well. The only reason I've been arguing is because Karhu said that anyone who only uses the high end of the rating spectrum are "mentally retarded". Unless you agree with this statement - at which point I will gladly continue this discussion just to prove how much of an illogical asshole you are -, I've got nothing against having your own system. Don't try to villainize me.

I've been opposing this claim the whole time. I've been saying that people will always use the higher end of the system because of several biases and the nature of scarcity in quality works.

By the way, the trend is clear in the average MAL user ratings, and what the general opinion of 'average' is.

I was just trying to 'make sense' of it all by listing factors that might've contributed to this illusion.

That awkward moment when you forgot what you were fighting for.

ideoidiomDec 19, 2011 6:07 PM

Dec 20, 2011 3:29 AM

#120

Offline

May 2011

2420

ideoidiom said:
Karhu said that anyone who only uses the high end of the rating spectrum are "mentally retarded".

So this whole discussion exists because you lack reading comprehension. Anyone is a nice word, but that's not the one I used.

I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls.

Dec 20, 2011 4:01 AM

#121

Prower

Offline

Aug 2011

I'm not exactly critical to analyze, but it is difficult for me to floss 10, as it symbolizes perfection.
On 9 I give if I love the series but I see some detail that could have been improved
(in general, unimportant,but of course, take it out of 10)
The 8, if I enjoy the anime but not seem so spectacular, but certainly something drew him from the rest.
7 is correct, did his homework, but not much more than that,
I've seen better things ...
6 is approved by the hair, do not enjoy too much but, rather,
doubtless like what I've seen.
5 or less, the series can be considered lucky if I finished watching, I hope not to have to give these notes very often ...

This is my way of looking, no-brainer, but I think that is correct.

Dec 20, 2011 4:29 AM

#122

Pocketasces

Offline

Jun 2011

1200

Prower said:
I'm not exactly critical to analyze, but it is difficult for me to floss 10, as it symbolizes perfection.
On 9 I give if I love the series but I see some detail that could have been improved
(in general, unimportant,but of course, take it out of 10)
The 8, if I enjoy the anime but not seem so spectacular, but certainly something drew him from the rest.
7 is correct, did his homework, but not much more than that,
I've seen better things ...
6 is approved by the hair, do not enjoy too much but, rather,
doubtless like what I've seen.
5 or less, the series can be considered lucky if I finished watching, I hope not to have to give these notes very often ...

This is my way of looking, no-brainer, but I think that is correct.

im agreeing. this is very close to the way i think

Dec 20, 2011 4:58 AM

#123

Offline

Oct 2011

502

Karhu said:
That's something what only mentally retarded person can do if they really are rating enjoyment. There also is no difference which 3 numbers they use. Those could as well be 1, 2 and 3. Or like it logically should be; 4, 5 and 6. But nope, they gotta use the highest. Sillier than fuck they are.

ideoidiom said:

Karhu said that anyone who only uses the high end of the rating spectrum are "mentally retarded".

How have I "comprehended" you wrong? Explain.

Dec 20, 2011 5:31 AM

#124

Zmffkskem

Offline

Jan 2011

1021

ideoidiom said:
I'm not sure if you were here for the whole duration of the argument, but this all started when Karhu was complaining about how people use only the higher half of the rating system (ie 7,8,9,10), and not the lower (1,2,3,4,5,6) as well. The only reason I've been arguing is because Karhu said that anyone who only uses the high end of the rating spectrum are "mentally retarded". Unless you agree with this statement - at which point I will gladly continue this discussion just to prove how much of an illogical asshole you are -, I've got nothing against having your own system. Don't try to villainize me.

I've been opposing this claim the whole time. I've been saying that people will always use the higher end of the system because of several biases and the nature of scarcity in quality works.

By the way, the trend is clear in the average MAL user ratings, and what the general opinion of 'average' is.

I was just trying to 'make sense' of it all by listing factors that might've contributed to this illusion.

That awkward moment when you forgot what you were fighting for.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FourPointScale

As far as I know, this is what I use. My 6 and 7s refer to uninteresting/horrifying 'good' material, while 8s are my averages. (And I enjoy average stuff, anyway) The only scales I know of that use full ranges are grade marks (which range from 30 to 96, 0 to 1, 4 to 55, 10 to 60 on a 100-point exam/test/course/whatever) ,Rotten Tomatoes Freshness rating(Full range?) and Metacritic(PC Games 96 of BioShock(Best game EVAR) to 8 of Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.(hurhur, my knowledge is so limited))

I'm not sure how much of 'logic' goes into going 4-5-6 for averages. This suggests 'average' with relation to other anime because it uses a percentile system right off the bat. The 90th percentile is still the most popular and 'best' anime ever, while 50th percentile(probably around 6 or 7) is the average, or simply poor anime.

Furthermore, the midpoint is actually 5.5 or 11/2, which is a missing point. 0 is not a possible score. The lowest score is 1.

To note
http://myanimelist.net/anime/413/Mars_of_Destruction
has a rating of 2.64. It's quite a good relative point for 'near-zero.' as far as I have heard. Not many are able to best it in terms of being bad.

I'm not going to take the full range of all anime, finding non-zeros within these ranges is difficult.
http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=&limit=6720
Taking Mars of Destruction as the lowest(i.e. 0)

The 50th percentile, if I have any understanding of percentiles at all,
http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=&limit=2540
Majutsushi Orphen Revenge at 7.05

The 90th percentile,
http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=&limit=507
Chrno Crusade at 7.93. This suggests an extremely high density of 7s. Basically, it wouldn't be fully wrong to say more than 40% of all anime is within 7 to 8.
The 99th percentile:
http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=&limit=50
Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn at 8.59, which means less density for 8s and 9s, as to be expected.

Only 7 have 9s. This is the top 99.86th percentile. Missing 1 decimal point means too much inaccuracy already.

ZmffkskemDec 20, 2011 10:59 PM

「みんながいるからだ。」　－　棗鈴

Dec 20, 2011 5:45 AM

#125

Offline

May 2011

2420

luia said:

Karhu said:
People who have only high ratings are fucks. People who say it's because they rate anime based to enjoyment are sillier than fuck.

agree
while i do think that everyone has the freedom do rate the way they want to, it's ridiculous to give nearly every anime a 10(or even 9)..

Karhu said:

Pocketasces said:
Why is someone silly fucks if they rate anime based on enjoyment?

I guess you are referring to what I said before. It was not about based to what people rate, but how they use the rating scale.

Some people give only ratings like 8, 9 and 10s and say they rate enjoyment. That's something what only mentally retarded person can do if they really are rating enjoyment. There also is no difference which 3 numbers they use. Those could as well be 1, 2 and 3. Or like it logically should be; 4, 5 and 6. But nope, they gotta use the highest. Sillier than fuck they are.

lisnoire said:
Statement of the obvious:

MAL's scoring system is:

10 = Masterpiece
9 = Great
8 = Very Good
7 = Good
6 = Fine
5 = Average
4 = Bad
3 = Very Bad
2 = Horrible
1 = Unwatchable

If you rate enjoyment, then you are using this scale what lis mentioned. Your (ideoidiom) point to rate anime, based to school grades or whatever, doesn't apply here. This is MAL and scale above is only one that matters.

_laz_ said:
Jeez, I don't know what's this fuss about ratings (and the thread is too long to bother reading every single post) when MAL has clear, simple, one-linear adjectives assigned to each number in the 1-10 rating scale.

1/10 = Unwatchable
5/10 = Average
10/10 = Masterpiece

Scale the rest.

To make it even clearer:

This:

ideoidiom said:

Karhu said:
That's something what only mentally retarded person can do if they really are rating enjoyment.

Is referring to this:

Karhu said:
Some people give only ratings like 8, 9 and 10s and say they rate enjoyment.

And the reason why, is included to quotes above.

In a nutshell: Person rates based to enjoyment, they have the scale 1-10 and 5 is average, they give only 8s, 9s and 10s. This person equals with mentally retarded. That's ofc only if the person handles the scale like it is meant to be handled.

Last truth: Rating scale has 10 numbers so users can make clear the quality/enjoyment/what ever differences based to what they rate anime. If they use 6 of these 10 numbers, then they are saying that there is only 6 different type of an anime/manga. Lets say the person uses ratings from 5 to 10 because it is cool, that's why person uses those. But there is absolutely no difference if that person uses ratings from 1 to 6 instead of 5 to 10. Them thoughts about the quality of anime they have seen doesn't change a one bit (just think about it). Only what changes is them mean score. That's why it's important to use the whole scale.

Also nice job on taking only that part of the quote that fits for you the best.

KarhuDec 20, 2011 6:05 AM

I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls.

Dec 20, 2011 7:21 AM

#126

Zmffkskem

Offline

Jan 2011

1021

Given my analysis of statistics already just above your post, you're saying more than 40% of the population is mentally retarded. Well, good luck to you, because society is just like that.

The truth is the only the 50th percentile matters(and stuff after it), because it's a basic fail/pass line. Cross it, and you're gone. It doesn't matter what is the grading system or grading numbers, like 1 to 10 or 5 to 10 or 1 to 5. Not being able to cope with relative and absolute scales and/or the mathematics behind this is, in my honest opinion, contributes more towards what should be called 'mentally retarded.'

With that said, I suggest you take up more on behavioural sciences, statistics, sociology, social sciences. Perhaps you can write a good paper(I'm sure it's not new, but any new paper saying new things, or old stuff more clearly is a paper) about why people would choose 7 as an average.

ZmffkskemDec 20, 2011 7:56 AM

「みんながいるからだ。」　－　棗鈴

Dec 20, 2011 7:45 AM

#127

Jalasupi

Offline

Feb 2011

168

People need to try to criticisim a bit.

It depends on how you watch anime and all. For example there are people that only watch anime they love then they don't finish something they find is shit, then they don't give a low mark because doesn't finish... That's important.

For example I finish all animes I watch, and I try to see all the shows I found can be interesting each new season, this way I watch good and bad anime and then I can enjoy more the good anime.

In my case I have a 6,9 of average, I think it's a little high, I would like my ratings would be at 6,5 but it's difficult to get it because I try to pick well before start animes, just made a mistake with some as RoKiuBu or Blood C :)

From 7-10 Something I enjoied so much, 10 is for something really special, 9 for something really good but I can't give it a 10, 8 really good, 7 great anime I shouldn't pass.
6: Ok anime I enjoied but if I would avoided wouldn't happen anything.
5: watchable but I could skipped!
4 or lower I die while watching it!

Dec 20, 2011 7:57 AM

#128

Dark_Puddles

Offline

May 2009

234

Karhu said:
That's why it's important to use the whole scale.

Where the hell are your 10's?

People can rate things how ever they want based on whatever criteria they feel like, there is nothing making people use the limited mal terms for the ratings. You can rate on enjoyment, how well each show does out of 10 with something like 5 being the pass rate, simply as a reflection of your highest rated anime to your lowest or you could use the terms given by mal. NONE are better than the others for everyone, if they work for someone good for them.

Karhu said:
Person rates based to enjoyment, they have the scale 1-10 and 5 is average, they give only 8s, 9s and 10s. This person equals with mentally retarded. That's ofc only if the person handles the scale like it is meant to be handled.

Yeah, so they don't have to use the scale like that if they don't want to, it's their list. High ratings can just mean they enjoy pretty much everything they watch a lot and they use an out of 10 thing to represent that. As they enjoy everything, everything gets high ratings. This doesn't make them mentally retarded, it just makes them not fucked up enough to care about following how a site listing the anime you've seen suggests you rate them.

Dec 20, 2011 9:53 AM

#129

Offline

Oct 2011

502

Karhu said:
If you rate enjoyment, then you are using this scale what lis mentioned. Your (ideoidiom) point to rate anime, based to school grades or whatever, doesn't apply here. This is MAL and scale above is only one that matters.

Oh, so I guess MAL is one using us as tools to evaluate anime, and not the other way around. In the meantime this site should also be renamed from MyAnimeList to something more appropriate like, I don't know, Karhu's Hello Kitty Express?
It seems that you still can't get over the fact that they bring their own scale into MAL.
My school example was only a suggestion of where they might've gotten it from. I only implied that it's the same mentality for all things that require 'scoring' on a %/100 in life.
The fact of the matter is that most known MAL anime is between the ratings 6-7, and not 5, where it's "supposed" to be (according to you). Is this suggestive of the "fact" that everyone on MAL use the scale like they're supposed to? Or the fact that any of the biases I mentioned does not exist?
All I see you trying to do is prop yourself up to sound like you have more "objective" tastes and disregard everyone else as "retards" for having their own opinion in things.

Dec 20, 2011 10:53 AM

#130

Offline

Mar 2008

553

ideoidiom said:
I like to attach weird pictures =)

This was for me right? I'll go ahead and assume so....

I'm glad you decided to make an actual response (better late than ever). Still, the not reading is still there, so let me explain.

Again, Step by step seems to have made wonders:

ideoidiom said:
Unless you agree with this statement - at which point I will gladly continue this discussion just to prove how much of an illogical asshole you are

No, I was never part of any argument, I didn't even see your argument with Karhu (seems he didn't either) or commented on anything even close to being related to that. From the point you asked me to begin reading your posts, you were talking about completely different things, wich is what I replied to. But is nice to be called an asshole without reason.

ideoidiom said:
That awkward moment when you forgot what you were fighting for.

Me, first post to you:"You have your own point of view, no need to justify it"
Me, second post to you:"for conversation's sake"
Me, third post to you: "Like I said, I was making conversation"
Paranoid, yes. Defensive to the point of low self-steam, probably. Deluded (choosing what to see), definitely. Don't be now, I wish you the best.... probably.

Obviously, I wasn't fighting for anything, as seen by my choice of words, like "personally" and "I think". I had the suspicion you were indeed trying to fight, now its confirmed, witch is sad, for me, not for you, as, an inverted smile appeared on my face, specially if you, as I once said, fight with nothing but air backing you up and against you.

I stressed multiple times, in each post, and you ignored, my only strong point, you shouldn't so adamantly complain about others "wrong" rating system. Ironically enough, that was the same reason why you began your so-called fight.

ideoidiom said:
I've been saying that people will always use the higher end of the system because of several biases and the nature of scarcity in quality works.

By the way, the trend is clear in the average MAL user ratings, and what the general opinion of 'average' is

I know, I know (>.>). That's the only thing on witch I commented. I told you why I don't think that's very possible and why the mean score is not enough info by itself. Unlike you, I won't go on repeating what I said as a response (its basically pointless), nor was I given an opportunity to elaborate further. Can you imagine a conversation, or by context's(?) sake, a debate, structured like that? (it is a constructive criticism, if not for you, for the forum)

ideoidiom said:
Don't try to villainize me.

Man, I've not tried to make villain out of you, I've limited myself to describe what's in front of me (no empty accusation) and adapt to you (accusation wise). If you really think someone is villainizing you, then you're looking at a mirror.

I've not read anything after the first post on page 7, in case you make another mistaken idea. For obvious reasons, this is not my idea of a conversation, so I won't go further (actually you tried to shoot it down before it even began).

PS: Is villainizing a word? My auto-correct says it isn't.

Edit: I was in a bit of a bad mood at the prospect of making a post to explain myself. For that, I trimmed it a little.

onewithflanDec 20, 2011 11:22 AM

Dec 20, 2011 12:20 PM

#131

Offline

Oct 2011

502

Pero said:
No, I was never part of any argument, I didn't even see your argument with Karhu (seems he didn't either) or commented on anything even close to being related to that. From the point you asked me to begin reading your posts, you were talking about completely different things, wich is what I replied to. But is nice to be called an asshole without reason.

How are they completely different things? I was talking about assholes (btw, I didn't exactly call you one, funny thing about "if"s...) like Karhu that thinks their rating scale is better than everyone and 'implied' that we should follow his example if we don't want to be 'retarded'. I don't see how I've deviated from this. Cite me.

Pero said:
Me, first post to you:"You have your own point of view, no need to justify it"
Me, second post to you:"for conversation's sake"
Me, third post to you: "Like I said, I was making conversation"
Paranoid, yes. Defensive to the point of low self-steam, probably. Deluded (choosing what to see), definitely. Don't be now, I wish you the best.... probably.

Dude, what? You've been shooting down everything I've said without even saying why, or having your own stance in things. All, I mean, ALL you've said so far is: that's not enough, or I read it and it's not convincing. Now that I found out you're not even taking Karhu's stance, for what purpose are you even here? I'm trying to discuss the mechanics behind the tendency for people to rate a certain way (call me a nerd), and you're here spreading love and rainbows with "The reason why most MAL users rate high is actually much more simple, they like anime a lot." Are we even on the same page?
I think I know why I've been so pissed whenever I reply to your posts, it's because you're a tourist with nothing to contribute. And let's face it, even for "conversation's sake", a skeptic that doesn't even bother to discuss the points before shooting it down isn't exactly the most interesting person to talk to. Then you get into the mechanics of how I phrase my arguments improperly or whatever, at the same time still saying absolutely nothing.
You may not be trying to consciously piss me off, but you're doing it right.
Nothing annoys me more than tourists.

Dec 20, 2011 12:53 PM

#132

Offline

May 2011

2420

ideoidiom said:
All I see you trying to do is prop yourself up to sound like you have more "objective" tastes and disregard everyone else as "retards" for having their own opinion in things.

But how exactly can you see it in that way? I'm asking people to use the whole scale to make them opinions clearer. Using only 8s, 9s and 10s isn't much of an opinion.

+ You are once again saying that I call all the others retards, while I've explained 2 times what I meant by saying that.

Dark_Puddles said:

Karhu said:
That's why it's important to use the whole scale.

Where the hell are your 10's?

Look my manga list.

I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls.

Dec 20, 2011 2:16 PM

#133

Offline

Mar 2008

553

ideoidiom said:
Dude, what? You've been shooting down everything I've said without even saying why, or having your own stance in things. All, I mean, ALL you've said so far is: that's not enough, or I read it and it's not convincing. Now that I found out you're not even taking Karhu's stance, for what purpose are you even here? I'm trying to discuss the mechanics behind the tendency for people to rate a certain way (call me a nerd)

No, no, no. I've explained why I didn't take you seriously, that was the point of the second and third post (you repeated your words without replying), you're the one that's been shooting down everything with nothing just because, the reason now you've expressed, you were not interested in what I posted. If you didn't want to elaborate on what I had to say, you didn't need to reply. Do you go around saying: don't talk about what I don't want to talk or you're stupid and f*ck off?

ideoidiom said:
and you're here spreading love and rainbows with "The reason why most MAL users rate high is actually much more simple, they like anime a lot." Are we even on the same page?

Yes, we are on the same page, I actually expected you to talk about that so I could elaborate. This being the only reason why I'm actually posting now. If most users vote on enjoyment and most like anime as a whole (I'll take forums posts as proof of this, opposed to your stance based in a wide array of conclusions based only on the mean score), I take they simply vote in a above average range for most series, instead of having a conscious plan of ignoring the default scoring in favor of a convoluted explanation about the importance of the school grading that just doesn't make any sense to me, it does to you, but that doesn't mean it does for everyone, I hope you can at least accept that notion.

ideoidiom said:
How are they completely different things? I was talking about assholes (btw, I didn't exactly call you one, funny thing about "if"s...) like Karhu that thinks their rating scale is better than everyone and 'implied' that we should follow his example if we don't want to be 'retarded'. I don't see how I've deviated from this. Cite me.

I already answered this, I'm beginning to think Karhu is right about your comprehension skills. From the post you told me to begin reading to understand your argument (and even one before), you only talked about the point in the first quote in this post. I would have to quote your entire posts to show you there was nothing else, not karhu, not assholes, not people who say their ratings are the correct way, something you said about yours, now I understand it was only "air" to make you seem as you were right and not a real declaration of superiority, or you would be an hypocrite.

ideoidiom said:
a skeptic that doesn't even bother to discuss the points before shooting it down isn't exactly the most interesting person to talk to

Ha ha, funny. I guess this is how someone blind to themselves talk.

ideoidiom said:
Then you get into the mechanics of how I phrase my arguments improperly or whatever, at the same time still saying absolutely nothing.

Told you already, adapting. Argument understanding critique with argument critique, nothing with nothing, explaining with other words to explaining with other words, mirrors. I've made that clear before already. You just can't take yourself, think about it.

ideoidiom said:
I think I know why I've been so pissed whenever I reply to your posts, it's because you're a tourist with nothing to contribute. You may not be trying to consciously piss me off, but you're doing it right.
Nothing annoys me more than tourists.

Well, your replies to my posts had nothing to contribute either, in which case, you'd be more of a "tourist" (whatever that means) than me, because my first post was a legitimate opinion. Boo-ya.

At some point, after your first reply, I was trying to slightly annoy you, as I've mentioned in some other post (again: read!). As you might have noticed, you're a natural target, maybe because, as you said it, you give off a nerd aura, maybe because you get angry, or maybe because you're a know-it-all-wanabee. Nevertheless, I'm sorry for making you angry (serious), and for being a "tourist" by not being angry or looking for a fight (sarcasm).

More importantly, you haven't answered my question: is villainizing a word?

ideoidiom said:
and you're I'm here spreading love and rainbows >=(

Better.

Dec 20, 2011 3:00 PM

#134

Offline

Oct 2011

502

Pero said:
If most users vote on enjoyment and most like anime as a whole (I'll take forums posts as proof of this, opposed to your stance based in a wide array of conclusions based only on the mean score), I take they simply vote in a above average range for most series, instead of having a conscious plan of ignoring the default scoring in favor of a convoluted explanation about the importance of the school grading that just doesn't make any sense to me, it does to you, but that doesn't mean it does for everyone, I hope you can at least accept that notion.

/Facepalm. It's an example to illustrate how one's critique may differ according to the behavior of the herd, and the commonly perceived average of MAL is this perceived behavior of the 'herd'. If a user finds that all their favourite shows are within the the range of 7-9 on average by most users, naturally this sets a benchmark on what they think most people think is "good", and when they see something that they themselves believe are better than this "good" show (assuming they saw it before), then they wouldn't hesitate to give it a higher rating. If that doesn't "make sense" to you, how can you still saying that you understood my argument?

Pero said:
Told you already, adapting. Argument understanding critique with argument critique, nothing with nothing, explaining with other words to explaining with other words, mirrors. I've made that clear before already. You just can't take yourself, think about it.

Translation: trying to make me look like a retard. You don't have to sugarcoat it or make fancy explanations, I know what's going on.

Pero said:
As you might have noticed, you're a natural target, maybe because, as you said it, you give off a nerd aura, maybe because you get angry, or maybe because you're a know-it-all-wanabee.

LOL are you kidding? Coming from you? A guy that's trying to sound like an English-Linguistics major?

Pero said:
More importantly, you haven't answered my question: is villainizing a word?

Google it. "Villainize" has been a word since 96'. Dunno where you got "villainizing" from.

Yeah, I'm done here unless you've got anything substantial to say other than nothing. Besides, Karhu retracted his statement about calling people retards, so I've lost all the drive in wasting my time here. I'm not going to bother with this if I know I won't get any new ideas out of it.

ideoidiomDec 20, 2011 3:24 PM

Dec 20, 2011 10:13 PM

#135

Offline

Mar 2008

553

Finally, A proper reply (leaving aside the occasional sleazy attachment), you managed to break your circle, should have done it by your second reply, though.

ideoidiom said:
It's an example to illustrate how one's critique may differ according to the behavior of the herd, and the commonly perceived average of MAL is this perceived behavior of the 'herd'. If a user finds that all their favourite shows are within the the range of 7-9 on average by most users, naturally this sets a benchmark on what they think most people think is "good", and when they see something that they themselves believe are better than this "good" show (assuming they saw it before), then they wouldn't hesitate to give it a higher rating.

That could make sense, yet I've never seen it firsthand. What I've seen in sites with ratings are posts in the likes of: "Why is this show rated so low" and "why is this show rated so high". That tells me people already have their own predefined ideas and are not at the mercy of escalation. While I don't know anyone from MAL in real life, anyone getting asked in this forums, why do they rate everything so high, they answer with, because I like everything a lot and less would seem harsh, without much more reason behind it, already two people posted like that here without even being asked.

ideoidiom said:
If that doesn't "make sense" to you, how can you still saying that you understood my argument?

Understanding doesn't equal agreeing. I hope you realize that one day. One can disagree and still respect another's stance. Not that I respect yours; to get, you have to also give.

ideoidiom said:
Translation: trying to make me look like a retard. You don't have to sugarcoat it or make fancy explanations, I know what's going on.

So, by your logic, by mimicking you, I was trying to make you look like a retard... so, you looked like a retard from the beginning? (Sorry! I had to, you just make it too easy to mess with you. I'll stop now)

Anyway, re-read what you said and you'll realize how paranoid it sounds. Maybe you could try acting like a retard sometime to loosen up.

ideoidiom said:
LOL are you kidding? Coming from you? A guy that's trying to sound like an English-Linguistics major?

You think I have some semblance to an english-major? I'm so happy. But no, my writing is chaotic, quickly done and high-school level, never considered it any better. Don't you feel a little silly? Besides, linguistics students are not know-it-alls, from my experience.

You've told me what I "think" and what I "try" to do, twice in here and more before. I've shown how off the mark you've been in all accounts. Now, at least, you have to accept the possibility (or more) of being wrong about knowing people and the "herd" better than they do.

ideoidiom said:
Dunno where you got "villainizing" from.

I don't know either, that's why I asked.

Dec 21, 2011 12:42 AM

#136

Offline

Oct 2011

502

Pero said:
Finally, A proper reply (leaving aside the occasional sleazy attachment), you managed to break your circle, should have done it by your second reply, though.

No, I've said nothing new in this post, all I've done is strung together the arguments I've made in a frustratingly obvious manner. Similarly, I could say: "Finally, A proper reply (leaving aside the occasional sleazy attachment), you managed to break your circle, should have done it by your second reply, though." just the same to you. But seeing as things are so far, you seem to self proclaim to have impeccable logic and reasoning that any 'high school-er' would understand, if this isn't the most obvious attempt to make me look retarded, then I don't know what 'retarded' means.

Pero said:
While I don't know anyone from MAL in real life, anyone getting asked in this forums, why do they rate everything so high, they answer with, because I like everything a lot and less would seem harsh, without much more reason behind it, already two people posted like that here without even being asked.

Well no shit. Isn't this why I kept saying that you're saying absolutely nothing? Because you're unwilling to go beyond the surface treatment and theorize why this is so? Have you also realized that most of them posted their 'thesis' here and never came back? (I'm starting to wish that you act more like them, seeing as you're saying absolutely the same things)

Pero said:
Understanding doesn't equal agreeing. I hope you realize that one day. One can disagree and still respect another's stance. Not that I respect yours; to get, you have to also give.

Says the guy that claims to have "understood" my argument since 4 posts ago. I would argue that "understanding" is a prerequisite to making sound judgements as to 'agreeing' or not.

ideoidiom said:
LOL are you kidding? Coming from you? A guy that's trying to sound like an English-Linguistics major?

Bolded. 'Nuff said.

Pero said:
You've told me what I "think" and what I "try" to do, twice in here and more before. I've shown how off the mark you've been in all accounts. Now, at least, you have to accept the possibility (or more) of being wrong about knowing people and the "herd" better than they do.

I don't have to accept anything from a guy that isn't saying anything of his own. You see, there's a missing link in our conversation here. In order to sufficiently convince someone that their 'argument' is wrong, you'd have to replace their argument with one of your own, and this is the only reason I engage in arguments: to BE proven wrong. This is how people learn, not just take shit from some guy that claims to have understood my argument and have been essentially trolling my efforts to have a legitimately meaningful conversation. Seeing as how this last reply went, I'm now fully convinced. There's no 'new argument' to be had here, then I'm unwatching. If you've got something that you're dying to vent out, feel free to post it on my profile or PM me, but don't expect a reply unless you're actually gonna say something other than play the "cool" card. Let's face it. Everyone uses forums for different things. If I wanted a casual conversation with 'yeah's 'totally's and 'nah's, I'd be on facebook, not making posts on forums. So fuck off and get off your high horse.

ideoidiomDec 21, 2011 1:09 AM

Dec 21, 2011 10:56 AM

#137

Offline

Mar 2008

553

ideoideom said:
No, I've said nothing new in this post, all I've done is strung together the arguments I've made in a frustratingly obvious manner.

Er, before you were talking about how the scoring media and school system influenced the rating. Now you talked about an escalating system based on singular views guided solely by their favorites. Complementing ideas, probably, but not the same thing. Probably you had them all in your head before but forgot to write it, nothing wrong with that.

ideoidiom said:
Similarly, I could say: "Finally, A proper reply (leaving aside the occasional sleazy attachment), you managed to break your circle, should have done it by your second reply, though." just the same to you.

You can, after all, mirrors do as mirrors see, so you wouldn't be wrong. You began it, I continued.

ideoideom said:
But seeing as things are so far, you seem to self proclaim to have impeccable logic and reasoning that any 'high school-er' would understand, if this isn't the most obvious attempt to make me look retarded, then I don't know what 'retarded' means.

Another example of you assuming too much about people. You might have been confused by the mirror play, but I'll clear things. I don't care about your intelligence, you could have an IQ of 100 or 140 and I wouldn't see you as any less or more. Actually, I find slightly disgusting the use of retard as an insult. What I was really thinking was "I don't like your attitude, but kudos".

ideoideom said:
Well no shit. Isn't this why I kept saying that you're saying absolutely nothing? Because you're unwilling to go beyond the surface treatment and theorize why this is so? Have you also realized that most of them posted their 'thesis' here and never came back? (I'm starting to wish that you act more like them, seeing as you're saying absolutely the same things)

A superficial reasoning based in actual evidence is heavier than deep theories based on just personal inner logic (by the way, that's the only way theories are prover wrong, with actual proof, not more theories). You always had the chance of refuting my "evidence" instead of simply saying "you know nothing" like a recording machine. Also, those so called "thesis" were only them sharing personal experiences, you'd know it if you'd read them.

ideoideom said:
I'm starting to wish that you act more like them

I've already told you, I come back because you reply to me. Stubbornness does not prove someone right (That's for you too).

ideoideom said:
seeing as you're saying absolutely the same things

Well, you conveniently cut down the new part and chose the part I was elaborating about an old and shorter idea.

ideoideom said:
Says the guy that claims to have "understood" my argument since 4 posts ago. I would argue that "understanding" is a prerequisite to making sound judgements as to 'agreeing' or not

Prerequisite, nope, just for judgement, not sound. I understand a reasoning that tells me "all giraffes are yellow, therefore all of them like the color yellow" doesn't mean I have to a agree that it's a sound judgement.

ideoideom said:
Bolded. 'Nuff said.

Thanks for bolding the word I gave importance to. If you think I tried then you must have seen a semblance that I didn't saw. Later to say, I wasn't trying anything.

ideoideom said:
this is the only reason I engage in arguments: to BE proven wrong. This is how people learn

I could have sworn otherwise, ask anyone here and they'll tell you it seemed like you tried to be proven right by doing the three monkeys routine. And what exactly did you expect to learn from this thread, how people's mind work?

ideoideom said:
You see, there's a missing link in our conversation here. In order to sufficiently convince someone that their 'argument' is wrong, you'd have to replace their argument with one of your own

You're projecting. That missing link has been plainly exposed to you before. I was never in an argument or wanted to (completely) invalidate yours. You just didn't need to reply if you didn't like it.

ideoideom said:
Everyone uses forums for different things

I'm glad you accept it, if only you could live by it too.

ideoideom said:
If I wanted a casual conversation with 'yeah's 'totally's and 'nah's, I'd be on facebook, not making posts on forums. So fuck off

Before I made a parody of you saying: "don't talk about what I don't want to talk or you're stupid and f*ck off?" Now you've become the parody.

ideodiom said:
If you've got something that you're dying to vent out, feel free to post it on my profile or PM me

No way. So I can get insults on my profile?

[quite=ideoideom]get off your high horseNope, but you're welcomed to climb up.

Look, I'm in a good mood and seeing you're on the verge of a mental breakdown, I'll give you want you want.

You're right, like always. Your understanding of the human mind is unchallenged. All those people disagreeing are just confused and jealous. Right now they are all felling silly about themselves because you have something special going on. (I'm just messing with you, man)

Two words of advice: There's nothing meaningful about whining, and "playing the cool card" sounds really good.

Dec 21, 2011 11:41 AM

#138