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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Hmm. Interesting episode. Rakka being emo was rather annoying, but the end was pretty good. I wonder who the crow was? |
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Ria said: ..I wonder who the crow was? +1 |
| That was a very strange episode. I know that the crow back there has something to do with her. However, it doesn't make any sense at all. As always, this is another mystery that needs to be answered. |
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| She is the crow :o LOL idk? All I know right now is that it symbolizes a sort of freedom(flying, being hated by ppl, eating garbage, the color black). Do the townspeople rarely see the Haibane or what? |
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| This show is so beautiful. I hope the rest of the episodes are just as great. If it is, then it will break into my top 5 :) |
| Do you know of ‘The Magnificent Steiner’ ? The main character was normally a weak, sickly man. When he was in an emergency, someone would come and help him. A secret friend. But, the main character never realised...... that his secret friend....Was himself. Grimmer = Legend |
| Well that's interesting. Dunno how one goes about becoming a bird. |
| Dead as the moon is, it still pulls the tide; somewhere within it must still be alive. |
| Crow symbolizes a spirit that she knows before.And the birds reprsents massagers from outside world.In this case the crow represent someone from Rakka's previous life.And gives the massage that it has forgiven her... Crows have many different meanings in different cultures.For a similar ex. everyone sholud knw about the movie called "The Crow (based on novel by David Bischoff) ".In the movie crow symbolizes a connection between the other world and carries the meanboys spirit within. |
| " The best spice is hunger!..." - Spike Spiegel |
| Yeah, the Crows are a part of the Haibane that they've lost in a previous life. |
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| Absolutely incredible episode, with excellent use of symbolism. Haibane Renmei, with every episode, is becoming one of the absolute best anime i've seen. |
Ston3_FreeN7Oct 20, 2009 12:58 AM
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Its so great i cant put it in words. Better and better with every episode. I just cant imagine how it'll end! |
| Wow the end of this made me cry. I was emotional to begin with but...amazing |
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| My fav episode so far |
| this was one of the best episodes i've seen in quite some time :) i loved the Clannad-like symbolism 5/5 |
Sayonara,papa! "Just how a mirror reflects you,people will also reflect your heart." ~Athena Glory,Aria "Whatever happens,happens" ~Spike Spiegel's thoughts on dying(Cowboy Bebop) |
| Perhaps the crow was her mother? |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Another great episode, I love the mood Haibane Renmei puts me in. I wonder who the crow was… There are plenty of things I want to know and those questions seem to go nowhere, but surely, the symbolisms are giving us the answer we seek; it’s just that we can’t understand it completely. Also, was it me or the animation seemed a little different at the beginning of the episode…? |
I think, then procrastinate. Therefore, I am. |
| Emo Rakka makes me angry. |
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.~ |
Anitnelav said: Emo Rakka makes me angry. I think there are few of us, if any, who can truly understand what it would be like to be in her shoes. Losing someone close to you as she did does more then depress you over the fact that they are gone. It makes you questions yourself and if you are truly fit for this world. This episode captures that emotion incredibly well. One of the best episodes of anime I have ever seen. |
| Wow, that girl at the shop - "I'm not annoying you, right, right right, RIGHT?!" I was expecting Rakka to slap her or something, lol. And I really don't see this as Rakka being emo. There's a difference between useless melodrama and actually conveying these sorts of emotions well...and Haibane Renmei is definitely doing the latter. I teared up at the end. |
| So Rakka first thought of the town as something like a paradise and felt betrayed when she had to suddenly face a dark side of the existence of Haibane through the suddent departure of her friend. In her shock and depression she is not able to accept the existence as Haibanei, which is the requirement to reach Day of Flight, so the evil influence of her self-loathing that goes against the intended nature of haibane has her marked as sinner, a failure, and her feathers start turning black. The darkening of her feathers signifies to her that her existence is somehow flawed and unacceptable. She already carries the assumption that she should not exist from her life become becoming a Haibane. That's also why Kuu's death hit her so hard. Inability to save her made her question whether her existence has any purpose if her happiness is so fleeting, so her earlier depression re-emerge. Now it makes sense why she thought if she "deserves to be this happy" in a previous episode. And just when I started thinking I understand why Haibane become sinners and what they need in order to reach their day of flight something completely weird like this is thrown into the mix. The crow corpse at the bottom of the well. From how Rakka interpreted the situation it seems crows can carry some sort of message from the other side of the walls. It's symbolically significant because it means the acceptance she gets is not only from being revered by townspeople, but a personal message from her past in a world where evil exists. Only Rakka can interpret the crow's connection to her. Just being able to realize that the crow came to support her means she was able to get over some of her self loathing. If she still hated herself she could not interpret ANYTHING as a sign of acceptance towards herself. On top of that, if it's a message from her past only she can interpret the message of the crow. Hell, it could be the crow was just a random bird and Rakka used it just to give some form she can bury to her conflict. But if the crow actually carried thoughts that were already a part of her existence but that she had separated from herself and she needs someone else to give her back, the crow is just a sign of acceptance from someone who was close to her. To put it bluntly, she got therapy I have five theories for what/who the bird at the bottom of the well is 1) It is Rakka. All Haibane are actually crows who wanted to live with humans but could not because they are deemed scary and they cannot communicate with humans (Kuu's thoughts from a previous episode) 2) It's the crow from Rakka's dream. Rakka was a crow back then, but she became a Haibane when she was about to die from the fall. The crow who tried to stop her from falling became exhausted and dropped at the bottom of the well and died there. 3) It's Kuu. She became a crow at the Day of Flight and wanted to come see the others again. However, she fell hit a tree and fell in the well or something and died. (I hope not) 4) It's just a random crow. 5) The dream was entirely symbolism. The fall was Rakka's suicide. The crow was a friend or family member of Rakka who mourned her death. Trying to pull Rakka up was to give Rakka's life a purpose by mourning for her death. When Rakka was alive she wouldn't have been able to accept it as genuine feelings (stop pitying me) and died thinking she had no reason to be in the world. The person actually took the form of a crow much like Rakka took the form of Haibane and delivered the message. Because the one who delivered the message actually died Rakka accepts the emotions as genuine. |
VictimOfFateFeb 21, 2012 12:52 AM
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| This episode was a masterpiece. When did the animation and art become so good? I mean, the art quality skyrocketed here. But disregarding that, Rakka's scenes were heartbreaking. 5 more episodes left... Kinda have to wonder if they can pull of anything else quite as beautiful as episode 8. |
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| okay no scratch that, this is the best episode so far now, wow symbolism everywhere, its amazing how much this show has gone from slice of life, happy go lucky type of anime, to something as serious and emotional as this, top notch! Loading the next episode now, just hope it continues, all i can say, so many unanswered question atm. |
| That shopkeeper has an eye on her, but damn she's quite depressed bcs of her wings... either way decent enough episode but I'm loosing interest quite fast these episodes although I keep wondering what the end will be so I'll be watching this until the end! |
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| Such a sad episode |
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| All that symbolism that I don't really understand. I understand a little more now as I read some people's analysis of what the dream or the crow(s) signify. I wish Rakka could rely on Reki more, after all, Reki has been/is in a similar situation as she is, yet Reki has learned to cope with it. The ending of the episode made me shed a few tears, Rakka's talk with the remains of the crow, who she apparently once knew. It's sad that Rakka thinks she is unneeded and that he existence is a failure. |
| The people who comment that she "annoying" or "emo" obviously do not comprehend true depression and the heavy pressure of hopelessness. Rakka is obviously trying her hardest to keep her sad feelings to herself because she doesn't want to upset her friends. She holds onto her burden and only expresses it when she is alone and can talk to herself, using crows as her comfort. People that are honest-to-god depressed realize that their issue is something they need to figure out themselves and often don't share it with others because some people don't quite understand the feelings. There is a big difference between being "emo" to attract attention and genuinely going through a really rough time. --- My interpretation is that Rakka is sin bound due to her suicide. She was unable to overcome her overbearing feelings and was reincarnated to come to terms with her restlessness. The crow was someone with her in the former life that tried to help her, but she was so far gone she couldn't even accept the fact that other people would feel grief if she ended her life. The crow symbolizes someone who is trying to tell her that they forgive her and if there is an afterlife, for her to forgive herself. It's to let her know there is ALWAYS someone that is there for you if you just reach out. Your life is precious and you deserve to forgive yourself for mistakes you made. Seeing Kuu depart has helped her realize the grief that is caused when someone leaves you behind and gives her an idea of what other people might have felt when she committed suicide. |
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| Haibane Renmei is something amazing. I'm enjoying everyone's theories on who the crow represents and what happened in Rakka's previous life. I suspect that Rakka committed suicide by jumping into a well and the crow was someone who tried to save her but also died in the process. |
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| Damn what an episode. The snow is falling and Rakka is stuck in a well :( |
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| Amazing episode. Everything was so well done. |
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| ehh weak this drama is just annoying, I really like the first few, relaxing episodes |
| It was very sad when Rakka was crying at the windmill. That stuff that she was saying when she described her dream makes me think she may have killed herself and then she ended up in this world In this episode we have another instance of the crows guiding her. The one she found at the bottom of the well that was dead was supposedly the original one that was in her dream. |
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| Another good episode. Rakka getting all depressed and questioning her own existence. Figured she'd get stuck in that well as soon as I saw it. |
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| so i get the feeling she is the crow or something along those lines, considering all the parallels that have been made between the haibane and crows, scavengers, wings, etc. i also noticed at the beginning that rakkas wings were turning black like a crows, interesting. |
| "A haibane should always be in high spirits, with a smile on her face." "Why?" And the psychedlic effects, and the crows! Wow, finally this show got good! I was so happy when she went to the Woods, went on despite dusk, and even climbed down the pond. She knew there was something deep calling out to her, and she was brave enough to follow this intuition! Also: "You became a bird to go over the walls and let me know that I was not alone." WOW! What a beautiful way of saying this, especially in the context of the show. I really like VictimOfFate's Interpretation (Point 5). I see it similarly: Rakka's depression now mirrors her depression and feeling of being alone in her previous life. And back then there was somebody standing to her and trying to help her, but she couldn't perceive it like that and thus it wasn't enough to save her. But now, she finally understand that there was somebody caring for her, similar to how Reki cares about her now. And therefore, she got some new will to continue. She understands now that she only feels alone, but she actually isn't. |
| Suxh deep quotes damn.. I winder who the crow was and who rakka really was or still is perhaps.. |
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| Shit man that was a pretty nice episode. I didn't really understand why the crows led her to the well though. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
| NARCOMANIA!!! She is emo and nothing else matters. |
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| yeezus this get dark real fast. The symbolism got extremely dense too. I almost felt NGE vibes. smh at the people calling Rakka emo. you ppl are really, really missing the point of the series. |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| Wondering about the meaning of the pooling water (this well was dry) and if she'd fallen into a well beforehand. |
| I just can't understand Rakka, she seems to be depressed for no reason. I get that it might be the point, but I just cannot relate to her in any way. |
| FOREBODING WALL OF TYPED OUT NOTES TO ADD MY HUMBLE KNOWLEDGE TO THE COLLECTIVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURE OF MYANIMELIST SPECIFICALLY PERTAINING TO THE EIGHTH EPISODE OF THE CLASSIC WORK OF ART, HAIBANE RENMEI • The Bird. The title only contains one phrase, this time. This foretells drama or plot development. • The opening “wing-dying” scene was just sad. I really like the extended wide shots. • Rakka’s frog is still knocked over. It’s a far prettier and impactful detail when it’s not cel-drawn. • Rakka’s wing covers look tiny, and it’s painful imagining her wings getting cramped up in them. • “The walls’ power weakens in winter, so we become more susceptible to the evil effects”. Although it’s often implied that the Haibane of Old Home view the walls as a hindrance or restriction to greater happiness, Reki here portrays the walls as something with “power” against evil, personifying them as some kind of guardian force to the likes of spirits. It is unclear whether this is something the religious Haibane leaders teach or Reki’s own personal conception. • The way Reki closes her lighter when Rakka unexpectedly asks what Haibane really are was very funny, however it was funny in the middle of a scene with a depressing mood. It was funny, but jarring. • It seems the Day of Flight really is being played up as a metaphor for death. The questions Rakka asks about disappearing are pretty much exactly the same questions a typical person would ask when confronting the topic of death. • This actually brings up a good question. Can the Haibane die in a literal sense? The Day of Flight seems to be representative of their death, however, in the setting, they have special conditions such as being guided by another Haibane and a beam of light showing. Can the Haibane die accidentally such as by getting hit by a car or falling of the clocktower? Can the Haibane die intentionally by suicide? I doubt the show would answer these questions, but I’m curious. The answers to these questions could end up playing into the show’s themes. • “You know, I once felt that way. Only you have to find it”. This would’ve hit me hard years ago. Now, I see this line and this theme expressed in so many other forms of media that it just becomes tired to me if the expression or execution of that theme isn’t all that unique. However, I won’t subtract anything from the show because of this. • What is surprising about Reki’s existentially hopeful line is that, after her talk about herself and depressing Rakka even more in the previous episode, she didn’t seem like the type of person to say that. Usually, in other media, people who say lines similar to the one in question are usually fairly happy or at least fulfilled in the way they lived their lives. Reki, after being generally depressing the whole show, does not seem at all like that kind of person. Then again, maybe there are people out there who can say somewhat hopeful lines like that and still seem depressed. Or, maybe my character reading of Reki was completely wrong. • To take life’s meaning out of the beauty of landscapes as Rakka did when looking at Old Home’s windmill farm has always fascinated me. I can elaborate all I want, but, for now, I’d just like to say I related with Rakka right then and there. • It is hinted that maybe Rakka really is a cursed Haibane. The memory of her dream is incomplete. It’s been cut off by fear. • Reki, after seemingly worsening Rakka’s depression, has finally taken the mantle of “reliable big sister”. “Always be by your side” is a cliché phrase, but that cliché has lots of meaning. • Crows. • The crows brought fear back to Rakka just after she started feeling hopeful again. • The way Rakka ran towards Reki and the way the children about-faced were very expressive . • Jesus Christ, don’t zoom into the CGI windmills with low-resolution textures. Please don’t. You were in the middle of a good scene. How could you do this to me? • Now, it seems I’ve skipped a lot of time here with my notes. That’s because the whole scene of Rakka running away to the windmill farm, then following the crows into the well was really engaging. There were a few weird moments of animation and direction (CGI WINDMILLS), but it had this constant feeling of “Oh shit, what happened!?” which then becomes “Oh shit, what happens next!?” Surprise turns into tension. It was a good scene. • I liked the extended shot of the single hole of light which eventually expanded then cut to black. Artsy extended shots like that really get to me. I still have Evangelion flashbacks of Unit-01 holding Kaworu. • The drawing of the crow skeleton was so detailed that it was chillingly beautiful. The fact that they managed to draw that from two different angles surprises me. • The music that plays during the crow burial sounds great. It sounds melancholically ceremonial. • That small touch of the twig not being able to stand up straight properly and tipping slightly adds a philosophical patheticness to the whole thing. The smallness and pointlessness of the burial is very prominent here, but that does not affect how important the act is to Rakka. • “I…” • Cliffhangers. This was a good episode. It has advanced the plot and the themes while also developing and deepening Rakka’s character, Reki’s character (who’s finally taking up that “reliable big sis” mantle), and their relationship. Rakka has now become far more depressed, completely contrasting the optimism she had in the earlier episodes. Something to note is that Rakka’s ability to read others is largely absent now that she’s closing herself off. However, she managed to re-attain her introspective ability during the scene in the well. Another thing of note is how her moment of hope near the beginning is completely shut down once the crows come. I’d say making those hopeful moments when the answer is dangled right in front of the depressed character only last temporarily make the depicted depression more realistic. I want to give props to the second act of the episode. It was very engaging, turning surprise and confusion into tension. The crows are now very significant, being the main motif of the episode. What’s interesting is that despite ending Rakka’s hopeful moment near the start with fear and leading her into the well, they are also the ones who give Rakka hope, attempting to save her during the fall in her dream and giving her a moment of respite during the burial. I’m still not quite sure what exactly the crows represent. They could represent anything from fate, to friends or the people around you, to Rakka’s conscience and inner voices, to life itself. I’m sure anyone could assign them any meaning they want. Their characteristics are just too broad. I guess saying that’s pretty lazy of me, but I’d rather wait for the crow motif to be explored further before I get too excited. Another motif that seems to come up is the coming winter. It forebodes intense suffering and hardship, mentioned by Reki earlier as even powerful enough to best the looming walls’ protective strength. Everyone’s preparing for it. Yet, when it finally comes, Rakka smiles as the snow slowly drifts down the well. The winter could be representative of life as something that is not just joy and not just hardship. It’s a morbid but beautifully morbid mix of both, as we can see when Rakka smiles at and rests amongst the snowflakes which fall slowly down the deep dark and foreboding well Rakka is trapped in. |
| "There’s no point in the world. But isn’t that wonderful? Because if there isn’t one, then you can decide what it is for yourself." ~ Filicia Heideman, Sora no Woto "Senpai...please grow up." ~ Fumi Manjoume, Aoi Hana "I wonder what tomorrow will bring." ~ Yunocchi, Hidamari Sketch: Sae and Hiro's Graduation Arc |
| Another great episode, the second half of this series is elevating its promising start. It kept the depression themes established last time going. Rakka in this episode reminded me of Shinji from Eva. Lot of adolescent depression and angst. But while I get how viewers can find this annoying. I found myself sympathetic towards her. The central source of her angst, a lack of meaning in her life as a Haibane is intensely relatable. I think many of us who couldn't find solace in spirituality or religion found ourselves filled with existential dread. Which turned to anger over inability to find clear meaning in life. As I am now I found myself relating more to Reki. In a sympathetic position from having experienced these feelings before. Her vow she'd stand by Rakka's side through it all was one of the series most moving moments so far. I at first thought the well was a visual metaphor. Likening depression to falling into a hole you can't climb out of. But while that might be true everything with the crow seemed to suggest another meaning. Especially since the crows have been an inscrutable (to me at least) symbol throughout the series. Really curious where this series goes next. I've been having that feeling a lot with each episode. Which is always a good sign. |
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SubscriberSun said: Another great episode, the second half of this series is elevating its promising start. It kept the depression themes established last time going. Rakka in this episode reminded me of Shinji from Eva. Lot of adolescent depression and angst. But while I get how viewers can find this annoying. I found myself sympathetic towards her. The central source of her angst, a lack of meaning in her life as a Haibane is intensely relatable. I think many of us who couldn't find solace in spirituality or religion found ourselves filled with existential dread. Which turned to anger over inability to find clear meaning in life. As I am now I found myself relating more to Reki. In a sympathetic position from having experienced these feelings before. Her vow she'd stand by Rakka's side through it all was one of the series most moving moments so far. I at first thought the well was a visual metaphor. Likening depression to falling into a hole you can't climb out of. But while that might be true everything with the crow seemed to suggest another meaning. Especially since the crows have been an inscrutable (to me at least) symbol throughout the series. Really curious where this series goes next. I've been having that feeling a lot with each episode. Which is always a good sign. Yes, I agree, I believe this series has drawn a lot of inspiration from NGE (including the ED animation). This episode was really nice, I like how this series made a 180 turn from sunny weather, everyone is singing in the park to completely depressive atmosphere, where you can see on the characters (Rakka and Reki) that they are completely worn out, they look so tired and like they lost all hope (which I guess they did). |
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