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Poll: Fate/Zero Episode 9 Discussion


Nov 27, 2011 10:48 AM

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The twisting of Kayneth's finger really made me flinch. The sound of bones breaking is one of the most disgusting sounds I can possibly think of.

Alexander is just amazing guy and his interaction with his master is joy to watch. Their relationship is being handled really well. But actually I like all the characters, which is really rare. I gotta ditto what ringoo4 said about Urobuchi's writing style; he's master of characterization.

So, good episode and onward to the next long week of waiting.
 
Nov 27, 2011 12:14 PM
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sucks to be kayneth,
sad for lancer, hes story is sad...
rider was awesome
 
Nov 27, 2011 1:01 PM

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This show keeps getting better and better, can't wait until they do Berserker's past. If you haven't read the manga, you are gonna be in for a big surprise.
 
Nov 27, 2011 1:28 PM

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MonkeyDGuts said:
This show keeps getting better and better, can't wait until they do Berserker's past. If you haven't read the manga, you are gonna be in for a big surprise.


>Manga
 
Nov 27, 2011 2:13 PM

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hmm so same as his past with the girl he loved he also ended up with a skill that causes women to love him. Looking at how Sola answered on Lancer's question about her doing it for Kayneth and how Sola Broke Kayneth's pinky she's doing it not for Kayneth but because of love she evil *_*. I hate her. lol

And that Kiri's bullets are like water suddenly splashed into an electric circuit running in high voltage which then causes short circuit there for the destruction of Kayneth's Magic circuits...

And later on im thinking Kirei will then betray his teacher thanks to Gil's opinions xD
I guess Gil' doesn't really care elegance in fighting compared to Tokiomi'

But im wondering though who will win if Kirei and Tokiomi will fight with their own abilities as Magus without the Servants. Since Kiritsugu only thinking Kirei as the most dangerous. Makes it look like Tokiomi is inferior to Kirei. But then again in FSN Kirei died easily.. making it look like Toki is superior than Kirei. hmm.

good episode ! but i hate that Sola that little b... Kiritsugu need to kill her :(!
Then again what i think will happen is that Lancer would see Sola as his past lover Grainne then ends up fighting to death protecting her.... looking at how he said her eyes looked like Grainne's.
オール・イズ・バニッティー



 
Nov 27, 2011 5:10 PM

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Kayneth is just unlucky for summoning Lancer and having a wife at the same time.
On that point Caster and Rider of Fate S/N are lucky to not been summoned during this holy grail war. Lancer would have had an instant win against those two.
 
Nov 27, 2011 5:21 PM

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Yumekichi11 said:
Lucena said:
On the other hand, it was great to see Waver and Rider finally get in on the action. I was afraid they were going to end up being some dynamic comic relief duo. It would have been a shame, really, because Rider is so bad-ass.
There is no way Rider would miss on the juicy action knowing who he is. He does have a certain level of respect for Waver but in no way he is going to sit still. Rider essentially will seek out battles like on the bridge and either join it or wait for the next opponent.

Essentially I think of Alexander more of honour on his persona than anything else unlike Assassin who is dirty in its combat. Of course that is all IMO.


Although his fun as a character the image is so different from G.Alexander that it kind of leaves a bad taste to anyone knowing even the slightest history.
If we turn a blind eye to the muscle guy image which is so unlike him, his personality is more close to a Spartan warrior than the G.Alexander.
Alexander wasn't someone that rushed to battle or did a step without strategy. He didn't conquer all the known world at his time by rushing in. If anything he was famous for his strategies something so unlike rider we see here.


shanimebib said:
It was a very good episode and more reasons to like Lancer. A true knight who forgot his responsibility as a knight when he lived. Ironically, he is about to meet the same fate. Just because alongside taking the command seals from Kayneth, Sola apparently has a crush on him.


Hmmm...Yeah i didn't get that. What is up with that woman? Why does she act like the woman from his past. Is it some kind of curse he has and affects people around him?
Modified by Monad, Nov 27, 2011 5:43 PM
 
Nov 27, 2011 5:26 PM

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Monad said:
Although his fun as a character the image is so different from G.Alexander that is kind of leaves a bad taste to anyone knowing even the slightness history.
If we turn a blind eye to the muscle guy image which is so unlike him, his personality is more close to a Spartan warrior than the G.Alexander.
Alexander wasn't someone that rushed to battle or did a step without strategy. He didn't conquer all the known world at his time by rushing in. If anything he was famous for his strategies something so unlike rider we see here.


You shouldn't look to Fate for realistic, accurate or faithful portrayals of historical/legendary figures.



Mod edit : Spoiler for large images
Modified by Nayah, Nov 29, 2011 6:08 AM
 
Nov 27, 2011 5:32 PM

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Monad said:
Hmmm...Yeah i didn't get that. What is up with that woman? Why does she act like the woman from his past. Is it some kind of curse he has and affects people around him?


Yes it's some sort of curse. Any woman who sees his mole will fall in love with him. He mentioned that during his battle with Saber. Saber being an anti magic class was immune to it. Saber called it as charm magic.
 
Nov 27, 2011 5:48 PM

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Topgunuk69 said:
Monad said:
Although his fun as a character the image is so different from G.Alexander that is kind of leaves a bad taste to anyone knowing even the slightness history.
If we turn a blind eye to the muscle guy image which is so unlike him, his personality is more close to a Spartan warrior than the G.Alexander.
Alexander wasn't someone that rushed to battle or did a step without strategy. He didn't conquer all the known world at his time by rushing in. If anything he was famous for his strategies something so unlike rider we see here.


You shouldn't look to Fate for realistic, accurate or faithful portrayals of historical/legendary figures.

<img src="http://ist1-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/5/7/2/9/57291/H/r/g/h/Hrgh/1322432573555.jpg" />


Well yeah that is completely obvious but at least Arthur isn't even a proven historical figure. King Arthur is mostly a legend and a myth. So you are just changing a story that is illusive anyway.
Also Sauber might be a woman but beside her sex, her personality isn't that hard to see as being the personality of King Arthur.

I realize that the Fate series isn't to be taken seriously in historic bases but still it seems like lost potential to use different characters for different roles. When you have a gifted strategic personality like Alexander who always thought out of the box surprising his opponents, you should use it to make your story more awesome. It's a waste sacrificing that for a completely different personality that fits better to someone else.
You should just have used someone else for that personality and use Alexander at a different role that fits him and can be awesomely used.
Modified by Monad, Nov 27, 2011 5:57 PM
 
Nov 27, 2011 5:57 PM

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Topgunuk69 said:
Monad said:
Although his fun as a character the image is so different from G. Alexander that is kind of leaves a bad taste to anyone knowing even the slightness history.
If we turn a blind eye to the muscle guy image which is so unlike him, his personality is more close to a Spartan warrior than the G. Alexander.
Alexander wasn't someone that rushed to battle or did a step without strategy. He didn't conquer all the known world at his time by rushing in. If anything he was famous for his strategies something so unlike rider we see here.
You shouldn't look to Fate for realistic, accurate or faithful portrayals of historical/legendary figures.


Exactly! There is no way it's 100% However you are wrong about strategies. Rider did that with the bridge event except he got the better of himself by rushing.

Seems the Japs misunderstood G Alexander as too much muscle on side. They should have done Conan way more. It would suit Rider more but I guess not but maybe cause Conan did ride horses.

The Japs twist a lot of things from making demons into loli to making crazy ass mechas with religious notions. You dig buddy?
Modified by Yumekichi11, Nov 27, 2011 6:33 PM

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Nov 27, 2011 6:05 PM

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Yes!
So much Rider and Waver in this episode.
I love those two.

This show is pretty rad so far.

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Nov 27, 2011 6:10 PM

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Yumekichi11 said:

Seems the Japs misunderstood G Alexander as too much muscle on side. They should have done Conan way more. It would suit Rider more but I guess not but maybe cause Conan did ride horses.


HA! Why, what to you think Alexander was riding? A horse of course and quite a famous horse at that too. A complete black wild horse that was afraid of it's own shadow.
He wasn't going around with a chariot driven by bulls.
Alexander's horse is a quite famous thing about him and this guys replaced a legendary horse with some bulls. WTH? another wasted potential. If you are gonna change history and replace something, don't replace a legendary horse, replace the ride of some other character that didn't have anything special.
Why replace something so special that is an intriguing part to have in a story?
 
Nov 27, 2011 6:18 PM

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Monad said:
Yumekichi11 said:

Seems the Japs misunderstood G Alexander as too much muscle on side. They should have done Conan way more. It would suit Rider more but I guess not but maybe cause Conan did ride horses.


HA! Why, what to you think Alexander was riding? A horse of course and quite a famous horse at that too. A complete black wild horse that was afraid of it's own shadow.
He wasn't going around with a chariot driven by bulls.
Alexander's horse is a quite famous thing about him and this guys replaced a legendary horse with some bulls. WTH? another wasted potential. If you are gonna change history and replace something, don't replace a legendary horse, replace the ride of some other character that didn't have anything special.
Why replace something so special that is an intriguing part to have in a story?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot

And the Ox Cart isn't a total asspull, it's from this legend.
 
Nov 27, 2011 6:34 PM

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Monad said:
Yumekichi11 said:

Seems the Japs misunderstood G Alexander as too much muscle on side. They should have done Conan way more. It would suit Rider more but I guess not but maybe cause Conan did ride horses.


HA! Why, what to you think Alexander was riding? A horse of course and quite a famous horse at that too. A complete black wild horse that was afraid of it's own shadow.
He wasn't going around with a chariot driven by bulls.
Alexander's horse is a quite famous thing about him and this guys replaced a legendary horse with some bulls. WTH? another wasted potential. If you are gonna change history and replace something, don't replace a legendary horse, replace the ride of some other character that didn't have anything special.
Why replace something so special that is an intriguing part to have in a story?
I agree but like Topgunuk69 says, it is a reference to a legend of his.

Topgunuk69 are you shitting me.

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Nov 27, 2011 6:49 PM

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Sola Bitch needs to die a horrible death.

 
Nov 27, 2011 7:13 PM

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Ah, a quick glimpse of the tragedy that befell Diarmuid (Lancer)
It look quite awesome, even though it was tragic~
Great facial expressions throughout this episode, especially with Sola's expressions. Kayneth so unlucky X(

And this is where Waver shines!
Caster's workshop imo looked censored like crazy, but its okay. It was still pretty epic how they left the place though.
 
Nov 27, 2011 7:15 PM
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Are you guys talking about Alexander the Great?
 
Nov 27, 2011 8:21 PM

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Monad said:
Alexander's horse is a quite famous thing about him and this guys replaced a legendary horse with some bulls. WTH? another wasted potential. If you are gonna change history and replace something, don't replace a legendary horse, replace the ride of some other character that didn't have anything special.

Finish the show?
 
Nov 27, 2011 9:09 PM

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I liked Akexander And Waver.

Sola is a bitch and Kayneth is suffering.
"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys
 
Nov 27, 2011 9:19 PM

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LostHanyou said:
Monad said:
Alexander's horse is a quite famous thing about him and this guys replaced a legendary horse with some bulls. WTH? another wasted potential. If you are gonna change history and replace something, don't replace a legendary horse, replace the ride of some other character that didn't have anything special.

Finish the show?


Gordius Wheel is just ONE of Rider's Noble Phantasm. You'll get your horse.

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Nov 27, 2011 10:13 PM

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Monad said:
I realize that the Fate series isn't to be taken seriously in historic bases but still it seems like lost potential to use different characters for different roles. When you have a gifted strategic personality like Alexander who always thought out of the box surprising his opponents, you should use it to make your story more awesome. It's a waste sacrificing that for a completely different personality that fits better to someone else.


Are you serious? Pay attention to the episodes, Rider's show praising Waver's unorthodox and practical methods even if they aren't showy or most proper for magecraft. That's very Alexander-like. It's thinking outside the box. Right there.

He's also extremely tactical-minded as he has observed Berserker, Caster stuff, etc. Calling out the servants (to goad at their ego so they would show up). He's extremely intelligent, not dumb muscles. You're mistaking his boastful personality with his strategy.

Monad said:
Alexander's horse is a quite famous thing about him and this guys replaced a legendary horse with some bulls. WTH? another wasted potential. If you are gonna change history and replace something, don't replace a legendary horse, replace the ride of some other character that didn't have anything special.


Remember that Kirei and Tokiomi are wondering if Rider has revealed his "trump card" or not. ;)
Modified by Thess, Nov 27, 2011 10:23 PM
 
Nov 28, 2011 12:43 AM

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Ragna92 said:
Damn, I can't believe how brutal caster and his master are. I really want to see that scene get animated, as it would add a lot more power to the scene.


I was pretty bitchy about the censoring until I read what I did, though I'm relatively glad now. It would definitely be shocking.


Rider is okay, I guess. Though I wouldn't take him at face value. Also, the bulls and chariot was actually a gift to him. Its part of the myth attached to him. His actual NP is what he's remembered for.

 
Nov 28, 2011 1:14 AM

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Alexander = Iskandar

Alexander = European name
Iskandar = Mid-East name

Just like Abraham = Ibrahim or Alexandria = Iskandariyah

Of course only in terms of "name" only. I didn't talk about the "person"
 
Nov 28, 2011 1:46 AM

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Otsdarva said:
His actual NP is what he's remembered for.

 
Nov 28, 2011 1:47 AM

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The backstory of Lancer is indeed tragic. The guy is loyal. Man, should they also shown that his mole is the curse and was given? That might give the whole idea behind his fall.

What's great about this series is that the charas are developed or with backstory to support their actions aside from the superb animation (worth to mention the action scenes in particular), effects, and sounds. I was never a fan of F/SN series with the Saber route but this show is different as it's more improved in all departments. Reading a bit of each chara and the F/Z universe or the Holy Grail wars tug a certain attachment and appreciation on the effort and storytelling shown there are.
 
Nov 28, 2011 2:24 AM

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Lieila said:
What's great about this series is that the charas are developed or with backstory to support their actions aside from the superb animation (worth to mention the action scenes in particular), effects, and sounds. I was never a fan of F/SN series with the Saber route but this show is different as it's more improved in all departments. Reading a bit of each chara and the F/Z universe or the Holy Grail wars tug a certain attachment and appreciation on the effort and storytelling shown there are.


My dream is that this very team animates Heaven's Feel one day. After Zero, that series would be the most proper, IMO. In terms of themes and atmosphere.
 
Nov 28, 2011 3:17 AM

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Thess said:
My dream is that this very team animates Heaven's Feel one day. After Zero, that series would be the most proper, IMO. In terms of themes and atmosphere.


I don't mind watching another installment and if that will be Heaven's Feel route as long they maintain the same or far greater quality than F/Z.
 
Nov 28, 2011 5:13 AM

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I like Lancer more and more with each passing episode, kinda the same thing happened with Lancer in FSN. Again, this guys are never main characters but are always so great. Sad story there. I really need to read more history books or such(Anyone knows any good mythology book about Lancer I'd be grateful :)).

Looking forward to next episode, not enough Berserker so far after that badass first appearance.
 
Nov 28, 2011 5:27 AM

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nina4life said:
I really need to read more history books or such(Anyone knows any good mythology book about Lancer I'd be grateful :)).


About Diarmuid Ua Duibhne, Lancer here in F/Z (Fourth Holy Grail War), you might check the myth about Diarmuid and Grainne. There's a brief description in wiki about it.
 
Nov 28, 2011 5:33 AM

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Impressive Episode, from Lancer to Rider.
 
Nov 28, 2011 8:08 AM

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Favourite female heroine next :D:D:D
 
Nov 28, 2011 10:42 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
I don't know if anyone noticed it but there was a brief flash of Waver's face in the following,

now that kind of face of Waver! DO WANT! He looks so bad ass! He made me think of this bad ass from El Hazard, an oldie anime.

yeah, i also noticed it :) Waver is looking here awesome~

Mynax said:

And next week Rin appears =O

yay, Rin~ :D
 
Nov 28, 2011 10:46 AM
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Otsdarva said:
Yumekichi11 said:
Are you serious? You are so shitting me. WTF is that LN reference in writing of this.


Oh, by the way.




Kudos to you!


Another forum I'm on pointed it out. I have an acute imagination, so I've been shuddering for the last two hours with the above spoiler in my head. =_=



After hearing about it so many times I'm kinda curious. If someone could post the screens from the VN[?], I'd be much obliged.
 
Nov 28, 2011 11:38 AM

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spigot said:
Otsdarva said:
Yumekichi11 said:
Are you serious? You are so shitting me. WTF is that LN reference in writing of this.


Oh, by the way.




Kudos to you!


Another forum I'm on pointed it out. I have an acute imagination, so I've been shuddering for the last two hours with the above spoiler in my head. =_=



After hearing about it so many times I'm kinda curious. If someone could post the screens from the VN[?], I'd be much obliged.

There's no VN for F/Z only light novel and manga. So far manga has only 3 chapters translated and Caster hasn't even appeared, yet. And I highly doubt LN has any illiustrations for such gruesome scenes.
 
Nov 28, 2011 3:57 PM

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I don't really THAT sorry about Kayneth, he deserved it in a way for being so full of himself but when Sola broke his finger, I had a small amount of pity.

And Waver seems to finally be doing something other than nag.
 
Nov 28, 2011 7:28 PM

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Gotta feel sorry for Kayneth. He's lost pretty much everything from that bullet. His power, his pride and his dignity. I guess he's no better than a living corpse now.
 
Nov 28, 2011 8:38 PM
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this ep was not as good as last ep....
i loved last ep..it was awesome....but this ep somehow was a recovery for the characters.
im wating for the next ep...because berseker is COMING!
 
Nov 28, 2011 9:18 PM

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PerlaNemesis said:
And I highly doubt LN has any illiustrations for such gruesome scenes.


The light novel doesn't, but there is an official artwork of Caster's and Ryuunosuke's little clubhouse.

Prepare yourselves. And here it is:



Its close enough. Just add an obcene amount of blood.
 
Nov 28, 2011 9:31 PM
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Otsdarva said:
PerlaNemesis said:
And I highly doubt LN has any illiustrations for such gruesome scenes.


The light novel doesn't, but there is an official artwork of Caster's and Ryuunosuke's little clubhouse.

Prepare yourselves. And here it is:



Its close enough. Just add an obcene amount of blood.

Oh gosh. This is in the anime?
 
Nov 28, 2011 9:39 PM

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Kigen said:
Otsdarva said:
PerlaNemesis said:
And I highly doubt LN has any illiustrations for such gruesome scenes.


The light novel doesn't, but there is an official artwork of Caster's and Ryuunosuke's little clubhouse.

Prepare yourselves. And here it is:



Its close enough. Just add an obcene amount of blood.

Oh gosh. This is in the anime?


Its what the censoring was for.
 
Nov 28, 2011 10:51 PM

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Found this episode to be a little boring, but it did have some good scenes.

Rin next episode, eh?
 
Nov 29, 2011 12:45 AM

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you know if the kids death reveal wasn't censored, we would have been talking about that the whole time.
 
Nov 29, 2011 2:25 AM

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sallym613 said:
Sury said:
I don't get at all why people seem to like this show that much. I only watch it because of the animation quality an Kaikura Yuki's music. Other than that, I think it's the most overrated series I've ever came across.


What Yumekichi and lolzteez said.

I could think of more shows that are more overrated (to me) than Fate/Zero. But I'm not going to get into too much detail about that since I don't want to start any unnecessary conflict or war about which show is overrated or not here. And I'm sick of using the word overrated too.

Anyways, as lolzteez just mentioned earlier, it's understandable that not everyone is going to love the anime. However, if you're going to say that Fate/Zero is the most overrated series you've come across, you could at least elaborate more why you think so. Or at least explain what you don't like about Fate/Zero. Instead of just simply saying Fate/Zero is overrated and leave it at that because that could potentially tick off some people (the ones that really enjoyed it) who might be a little offended by what you said.

~Off to working on my final projects. Probably leave this discussion alone to give myself less distractions~


There are a bunch of reasons why this show doesn't work for me. I have a hard time getting along with most of the show's characters. I even couldn't distinguish some of them in in the beginning. The voice acting is nothing more but solid and the whole pacing and the way the story unfolds isn't of the kind I can appeal to.

Sure, it might have been different if I had any previous knowledge of the Typemoon/Fate universe, but at least Fate/Zero doesn't manage to get me interested in it; it doesn't even seem to try. So to me it only looks like on of those huge budget Hollywood productions with no soul.

Sure, the word "overrated" is a bit "overused" lately, but that's just my personal opinion on this show.
There's a lot of shows, people, groups out there that are over-/underrated or over-/underappreciated, but that's a different kind of topic.
 
Nov 29, 2011 4:34 AM

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Well, it just shows that Fate/Zero's appeal is mainly aimed at those who already know some "nasuverse". (Type-moon stories)

Obviously it would feel overrated if you don't have any knowledge of "Nasuverse". It's like going to another country and cannot comprehend their famous culture.

Most of the people who have read Fate/stay night, likes this because of the connection to the original story.

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Nov 29, 2011 4:43 AM

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kaimax said:
Well, it just shows that Fate/Zero's appeal is mainly aimed at those who already know some "nasuverse". (Type-moon stories)

Obviously it would feel overrated if you don't have any knowledge of "Nasuverse". It's like going to another country and cannot comprehend their famous culture.

Most of the people who have read Fate/stay night, likes this because of the connection to the original story.


I'm not sure this is entierly true. I've never had anything to do with Type/moon stuff before, yet I've been watching this show every with my father and we've been enjoying it immensely. The pilot really hooked us and we had a lot of fun trying to work out who each of the servants were in their original lives, as well as working out what sort of refrences to their stories their noble fantasms would end up being.

Sure, we've had the odd "Oh, okay well I didn't exactly expect that" with some of those answers (like Rider doesn't really look or have the personality you would expect him to) but creative license is always to be expected. If anything, it's very refreshing to see how they have worked all of the history of the servants into the story rather than just having them be merely a name and irrelevant history for the character.

The characters and story, while somewhat complex and full of vague refrences to concepts that someone familar with the setting would recognise immediately, are very compelling. I think that's enough to get people with no type/moon experience interested in this; there's probably a lot of people out there like my father and I who are enjoying this a lot despite never having seen anything before.
Modified by Anzekay, Nov 29, 2011 5:05 AM
 
Nov 29, 2011 7:40 AM

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I like this anime, but it has been pretty stale since episode 7... I feel like nothing's happening at all.

Well, that's typical coming from Type-Moon series.
 
Nov 29, 2011 8:24 AM

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Monad said:
Yumekichi11 said:

Seems the Japs misunderstood G Alexander as too much muscle on side. They should have done Conan way more. It would suit Rider more but I guess not but maybe cause Conan did ride horses.


HA! Why, what to you think Alexander was riding? A horse of course and quite a famous horse at that too. A complete black wild horse that was afraid of it's own shadow.
He wasn't going around with a chariot driven by bulls.
Alexander's horse is a quite famous thing about him and this guys replaced a legendary horse with some bulls. WTH? another wasted potential. If you are gonna change history and replace something, don't replace a legendary horse, replace the ride of some other character that didn't have anything special.
Why replace something so special that is an intriguing part to have in a story?


Research for the facts first before you start typing long (but meaningless) wall of texts.



I'm not surprised by your lack of comprehension of the show though;
People who watch way too much titles of animes at once, tends to lose the ability to think out of the box; you only see what's in there but you don't think about any other possibilities lying outside. In fact, if you would just spend a minute or two to search Fate/Zero Rider on the net, you wouldn't have to type those annoying posts at all.

You're criticizing a book you haven't even finished.


LaLaLaidarR said:
Otsdarva said:
His actual NP is what he's remembered for.



Modified by Reim_Seranth, Nov 29, 2011 8:28 AM

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Nov 29, 2011 8:38 AM

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Anzekay said:
kaimax said:

Most of the people who have read Fate/stay night likes this because of the connection to the original story.


I'm not sure this is entierly true. I've never had anything to do with Type/moon stuff before, yet I've been watching this show every with my father and we've been enjoying it immensely..


Well, I did said "most of~" :D

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Nov 29, 2011 10:20 AM

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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3301
Lancer had great development and the glimpse at his past added a lot to his character.

And Rider is just so freaking amazing, the more I see him, the more he grows on me. My fave character by far. That scene when they arrived at Caster's hideout sent chills down my spine.

Contrary to what some users are feeling right now, I greatly enjoyed the pacing of this episode. This kind of episodes are necessary and this one was the push I needed to rank a 9 to an on-going series.
Modified by Veethorn, Nov 29, 2011 10:24 AM
 
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