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Poll: Mawaru Penguindrum Episode 20 Discussion


Nov 25, 2011 9:10 AM

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This show has such a deep underlying meaning and story that most of my friends just don't see. It is absolutely a masterpiece no matter how crazy it gets at time. The story of love/fate/sin is absolutely brilliant. I can't believe this episode. Seriously sad there are only 4 episodes left.
 
Nov 25, 2011 9:40 AM

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I can't ship Shouma x Himari, but the flashback scenes were done brilliantly. I got all emotional.

Another thing, though. Kanba.
What he says to Shouma: "You're right. We don't need our parents. We're the only members of this family."
What he says to Shouma's dad: "You're right. We must cleanse this world because Himari needs money."

I understand they're not exactly contradictory, but it's just... questionable behaviour. (Obviously that goes for everyone in this show, I know.)

Another highlight: Sanetoshi sounding a little too sexy. ♥ I can't quite handle it.
 
Nov 25, 2011 9:46 AM
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The Takakuras are back and as expected the siblings... well, are not related. To sum the episode up : fantastic developments and direction once again. Oh and the ED was absolutely terrific too.

In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.
 
Nov 25, 2011 9:56 AM
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PaninaManina, somehow your comment gives me goosebumps as we approach 2012. I don't believe in Armaggedon or the mayan prediction for the end of the world but somehow what you're telling me made me think that somehow Mawaru Penguindrum is somewhat a diorama of current events happening in Japan and somehow a foreshadowing of the future of that country. I don't know why I thought of that (maybe because you mentioned Zeitgeist) but several allusions such as fate, chosen and unchosen, as well as the current plot of the Kiga group all translates to the predictions of hopelessness and despair for the Japanese youth as they themselves are being isolated and are even forced to bear the burden of the previous generation. The Japanese had an old population in which the young had to work more to support the older generation. Due to this pressure, the young are forced to bear more responsibility than they can manage. Even parents ought to focus more on work than to create a healthy family, which is a major concern for the children's future. Some youth question their fate as several of their generation becomes well off while the others who fail in the adults-set standards feel as if they are born to be useless. The Child Broiler you mentioned, while true in some countries, has also deep symbolism associated with youthful despair and burden held by the failed responsibilities of their older generations.
 
Nov 25, 2011 10:08 AM

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I love Kanba/Himari and it's my OTP. I'd be thrilled beyond belief if they ended up together. But at this point I'd be satisfied if Himari ended up with anyone but Shouma. Anyone would be better IMO. It was a cute episode and it was well done, but to me...it was just very saccharine. It feels like Ikuhara is trying too hard to make people like them together in a short amount of time.

Masako, Kanba, and Mario were a cute little family. I love flashbacks to tiny Kanba...he's such an adorable little kid. Here's hoping we get some Natsume flashbacks in the next episode.

The child broiler and the story about Mary - I wonder if the golden fruit from that tree were actually children. The child broiler was what caused the (metaphoric) tree to stop bearing fruit and Kenzan (Mary) began trying to stop the child broiler by becoming a terrorist? (Stealing the ashes?)
Modified by YayPepsi, Nov 25, 2011 10:16 AM
 
Nov 25, 2011 10:09 AM

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My theories about Apple and Child Broiler.


I see Adan and Eve, and Apple/Fruit of knowledge, plus punish of god as a metaphor for fight against the system.
The Penguin dare to open his eyes to problems of the world and people, defy it, and trying to change that, "fight against destiny". The fate of a doomed world, so they created a strategy of survival for them and the world.
They believe the world is going to the ruin, as well as any other environmental group.

Those who share the fruit, apple, share the knowledge of the state of the world, and like Adam and Eve are punished for the "sin" by god.


The case of Himari is very common the days.
Have anyone seen "Dare mo Shiranai"? Himari like many children were abandoned by their families. Yuri and Tabuk were rejected, and this has happen there. The children are abandoned by being useless, and from what I saw in the drama "Don Quixote", the Child Protection Council allows parents to give away their child and submit them them to a new family.

Now I understand the sadness of Himari, Yuri and Tabuk.
They feel empty for not having someone to "complet"e them. That's why Himari equal to Tabuk, he saw a meaning in your life when you Shouma said that to her.

And Sanetoshi ... poor Sanetoshi.
He loves Momoka, but can not have her, fate will not allow.
I think he's in to see if anyone is able to escape the fate.
The conversation he had with Himari was about belief in a soul mate and just believing in love.
It's worth it to wait for your soul mate? Even if you never find it and even if the destiny does not permit you join her?
If you can't join with your soul mate, is not correct to stop worrying about and share love with other people who will also never meet with your soul mate? Not only the person who is prevented from finding your soul mate who suffers, all the other people you meet in life as well because of it.


This is all too deep for my insignificance.
 
Nov 25, 2011 10:18 AM

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maca1989 said:

2. Why is Shoma guilty of his parent's actions?


Of course Shouma not forgive his parents for obvious reasons.
What haunts him is the thought that he was responsible for the suffering of Himari. Since he are the true son of Takakura's, it's natural that he who was punished by God, but rather him was Himari.
He feels responsible for it, if he had not done Himari one of Tatakura's, she is not being punished in his place.
 
Nov 25, 2011 10:37 AM
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Masako X kanba X mario??????????????????????????????????I'm starting to get confused.

Now there goes my Ringo x shoma love tandem.
 
Nov 25, 2011 10:54 AM

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Hum.... Kanba and Masako are REALLY sinblings? Not cousins? How about Kenza's twin brother you had speculated episodes ago?
 
Nov 25, 2011 11:35 AM

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The thought that I had when Himari said that her mother had gone out and hadn't come back was that her mother was killed in the earlier Kiga Group terror action that the Father mentioned in his initial rant.

The scene with Kanba and his parents was very interesting this time. The first time we saw them together it appeared that Kanba was in league with them. But this time it looked as if he was oblivious to what his father was saying, and his father was oblivious to what Kanba was saying. Kanba is obsessed with saving Himari; his father is obsessed with saving the world by destroying humans.

Right now I'm getting the sort of vibes that suggest that we might get an EVA-style ending rather than a Utena-style ending...
 
Nov 25, 2011 11:59 AM

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really enjoyed this episode!!! not too mention the epic sound track :D
 
Nov 25, 2011 12:15 PM

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I wonder why princess of crystal uses precisely the same quotes as Takakura dad " humans that will never amount to anything., survival strategy".

Im a supporter of the theory of Shou being Kanba´s cousin.

Im more concerned about Himari and Sanetoshi´s talk now. did anyone understood the meaning? because i got hugely confused. At first it seemed to me that the meaning of Himari´s words are like she is saying she will not try to get Shou´s love and that she prefers to remain as his family. But then Sanetoshi starts talking about kisses. I didnt quite understand...does pedoSanetoshi really wants to join Himari x Shou as a couple? Because it seems to me that he wants Himari to himself.

Droplet said:
Lawd. I don't even know what pairing to root for anymore.


THIS.

im having an internal conflict.
I also love Kanba but he seems so obsessed. Obviously he lives for Himari. I wonder how he got so obsessed with her to the point of letting go Masako and Mario, their blood related siblings and never even care about them. I mean, he always ignores Masako, and as for Mario, he certainly knows that Mario is also possessed by a penguin hat and doesnt care.
I wish this anime was longer and had the same number of eps than Utena, so we could be enlightened about it.

maca1989 said:

Why is Shoma guilty of his parent's actions?


Obviously he feels that by choosing Himari to become a Takakura, he brought a punishment to her (her incurable illness).

I know many people dont see Hima x Shou happening because he doesnt show any more than sibling love to her, but if we notice, then Shou x Ringo is also unlikely to happen, because he also never showed any type of romantic feelings for her as well. He is just a naturally kind altruistic naive guy and thats why he saved Himari and also saved Ringo, and he would do the same for Kanba. Only the two girls seem to be in love with Shou and he is totally oblivious of that, as expected.

and Masako´s words to Shou when he said they were a family: "you´re the only one who thinks like that", which hints that Masako knows about Kanba feelings for Himari and Himari´s feelings for Shou.

dbaranyi said:
I'm getting the sort of vibes that suggest that we might get an EVA-style ending rather than a Utena-style ending...


LOL. Its possible since we only have left 4 eps.
Modified by Orulyon, Nov 25, 2011 12:18 PM

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Nov 25, 2011 12:35 PM

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Um i guess adam and eve= shouma and himari they ate the fruit of knowledge which is the apple and now they are being punished???? like how adam and eve were punished ermmmm i hope they answer everything in the last 4 episodes.
shouma needs to stop being emo

Also this was a beautiful episode ;~; but i will never ship shouma x himari
shouma x ringo FTW
i feel bad for Masako nothing goes right for her she lost kanba to himari because she and kanba were originally siblings but himari came and now they are supposedly siblings lol mind-screwing indeed

and um ringo's name means apple in japanese soooooo............. does this mean she had something to do with it too many theories

AND WHOA their dad talks just like the queen of crystals LMAO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN??
 
Nov 25, 2011 12:40 PM

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-yoru_piano- said:
Um i guess adam and eve= shouma and himari they ate the fruit of knowledge which is the apple and now they are being punished???? like how adam and eve were punished ermmmm i hope they answer everything in the last 4 episodes.
shouma needs to stop being emo

Also this was a beautiful episode ;~; but i will never ship shouma x himari
shouma x ringo FTW
i feel bad for Masako nothing goes right for her she lost kanba to himari because she and kanba were originally siblings but himari came and now they are supposedly siblings lol mind-screwing indeed

and um ringo's name means apple in japanese soooooo............. does this mean she had something to do with it too many theories

AND WHOA their dad talks just like the queen of crystals LMAO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN??


To answer the last question, remember when Mario was acting like Sahei in Masako's flashback episode? Yup. Possession. But Kenzan is still alive, so it's probably Masako's father, not Kenzan, who is possessing her.
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Nov 25, 2011 12:44 PM

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Man, going 20 episodes into the show and I still have so many questions in my head. For example, what do the penguins have to do with anything in the story? Also, what's the survival strategy? I don't think they ever explained what it meant (yet).

Despite my confusions, this anime is very interesting and keeps me wanting to watch it to the end. Hopefully all these mysteries will be cleared up by the end.
 
Nov 25, 2011 1:02 PM

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This show is too good. Kanba and Masako sibling theory has been more or less confirmed. The reluctance to tell us who exactly the "father" is does make me think it's Kenzan though.

Himari not remembering anything makes me think that Shouma has the fate-changing power, since he's the Penguindrum. Or "a" Penguindrum maybe.

Despite everything that happened this episode, Shouma x Ringo all the way. I don't care who Kanba or Himari or anyone else ends up with as long as they don't mess with my Shouma/Ringo.

dbaranyi said:
The thought that I had when Himari said that her mother had gone out and hadn't come back was that her mother was killed in the earlier Kiga Group terror action that the Father mentioned in his initial rant.
That would be an interesting twist, but it doesn't really work chronologically as Shouma was born on the day of the attack, and he's older than Himari.

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Nov 25, 2011 2:16 PM

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Everyone in this thread is praising this show into the air, and I really don't get it.
I guess this show is just too deep for me.

But dat OST when Himari and Shouma first met. Holy shit, it's beautiful. I just love the piano.
 
Nov 25, 2011 3:24 PM

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I have no idea what is going on anymore. Or how anything connects to anything else. At all.

And I am not sure 4 episodes can clear it up.
 
Nov 25, 2011 3:38 PM

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GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Modified by saka, Nov 25, 2011 11:56 PM
 
Nov 25, 2011 3:43 PM

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I feel as much as i liked this show 20 episodes in i still don't have a clear understanding on what's going on half the time :s,and i'm not one of those people that analyses ever bit and rewatches the same episode..maybe that's why i'm at lost but Dat music soo good~.
 
Nov 25, 2011 5:14 PM

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YayPepsi said:
I love Kanba/Himari and it's my OTP. I'd be thrilled beyond belief if they ended up together. But at this point I'd be satisfied if Himari ended up with anyone but Shouma. Anyone would be better IMO. It was a cute episode and it was well done, but to me...it was just very saccharine. It feels like Ikuhara is trying too hard to make people like them together in a short amount of time.


Once again, I agree with you YayPepsi;P This is exactly what I think too.

 
Nov 25, 2011 7:21 PM

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really interested in how they're going to wrap this up in 4 episodes

the thing with the parents and whatever the penguindrum is
 
Nov 25, 2011 7:24 PM

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This show has done so many things that I never saw coming.
 
Nov 25, 2011 8:29 PM
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Orulyon said:

I know many people dont see Hima x Shou happening because he doesnt show any more than sibling love to her, but if we notice, then Shou x Ringo is also unlikely to happen, because he also never showed any type of romantic feelings for her as well. He is just a naturally kind altruistic naive guy and thats why he saved Himari and also saved Ringo, and he would do the same for Kanba. Only the two girls seem to be in love with Shou and he is totally oblivious of that, as expected.


Although I shouldn't make predictions about Penguindrum (and this is the type of series where anything can happen) I think for many reasons Shouma/Ringo is more likely than Shouma/Himari.

In the novels we are privy to Shouma's inner thoughts and his feelings for Ringo do come through. Of course I am not entirely sure if the anime will follow the novels completely.
 
Nov 25, 2011 8:42 PM

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That was a beautiful OST.....and man, they keep pushing for that Shoma x Himari pairing lol

This was a very good episode of Mawaru Penguindrum, pretty much answered all the questions I had from the last episode...and added a few more questions just to keep viewed hooked. Especially the Child Broiler question, anyways I can't wait for the next episode.
 
Nov 25, 2011 8:59 PM

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this show was actually enjoyable when it was Ringo & Shouma's Wacky Adventures.
 
Nov 25, 2011 9:35 PM

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windy said:
this show was actually enjoyable when it was Ringo & Shouma's Wacky Adventures.


Not for me , i hated the first half of ringo.



Really good episode , dunno why people are so confused about what happened.


i got the feeling that next ep we will have how kanba was "transfered" to takamura family , was it sho again? or something else? wanna know.
Modified by Vanisher, Nov 25, 2011 9:40 PM
 
Nov 25, 2011 9:55 PM

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This has got to be one of my favorite episodes. The OST was beautiful, and those HimarixShouma flashbacks were just adorable. I just loved that kitten scene. ;_; ♥

So Kanba and Masako (and Mario?) are siblings? Masako looks a bit older than Kanba, so I wonder why she calls him onii-sama? Also, we know that Kanba, Shouma, and Himari are not related. I understand Shouma turning Himari into a Takakura, but why does Kanba stay with them too?

These episodes are really leaning toward HimarixShouma, but I'm still hoping that RingoxShouma will end up together. I'll rage if Shouma ends up alone by the end of this series. :'D
Modified by lanachan, Nov 25, 2011 9:58 PM
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Nov 25, 2011 10:55 PM

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kirarakim said:


Although I shouldn't make predictions about Penguindrum (and this is the type of series where anything can happen) I think for many reasons Shouma/Ringo is more likely than Shouma/Himari.

In the novels we are privy to Shouma's inner thoughts and his feelings for Ringo do come through. Of course I am not entirely sure if the anime will follow the novels completely.


I agree. I don't know why people have given up on Shouma/Ringo when this episode gave plenty of hints that Shouma/Himari isn't meant to be. Like her talk with Sanetoshi and her cooking apple curry in the end. Apple curry has always been associated with Ringo, and if Himari was seeing her as a rival or was bitter about Ringo and Shouma getting close there's no way she would use apple in her food. This is the strongest sign that Himari has given up on Shouma and she's wishing Ringo happiness.

Also, let us not forget the boys' conversation from Ep 1 that hinted at someone dying for love and receiving an apple in return, which all points at Kanba who's willing to risk his life for Himari.

And yeah, I gotta start reading the novels. I saw it at Pengroup site but haven't gotten around to reading them. While the events are the same, they seem to give a different POV on what's happening.

@ Orulyon:

Except that Shouma/Ringo has been getting development ever since Ep 4 (and they already kissed, which absolutely means something), while as Shouma/Himari is introduced five episodes before the last one.

As for Sanetoshi's talk about kisses, well, I find it interesting that he brought it up since Shouma and Ringo already shared one. If Shouma is Himari's destined groom that Sanetoshi referred to in Ep 9, then he'd like for them to get together at all costs, even if it turned out to be just a marriage of convience to make his plans come to fruition. I think he might have brought up kissing to tempt Himari, and now that Shouma is her friend Ringo's love interest, this renders Shouma to sort of a forbidden fruit. We'll find out soon enough.
Modified by Hayatempest, Nov 25, 2011 11:01 PM
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Nov 26, 2011 1:24 AM

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If you're really confused, these might help!

One of the things I really love about this show is how little, seemingly irrelevant details from previous episodes are referenced in later episodes. This show really sticks to its theme(s?).
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Nov 26, 2011 1:40 AM

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"many children are turning invisible as we speak, THIS IS UNFORGIVABLE"
"yes dad oh btw i need some cash for himari's medicine if that's alright"

lol ok there kanba

superb animation quality this week; i can watch the child broiler scene forever and tear up every time ; ___ ;
 
Nov 26, 2011 1:53 AM

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this episode is very lovely T_T shouma & himari are very cute & the ost is killing me..

I speculate that the end of the show someone will be sacrificed...

so shouma, kanba, masako & mario are related????
the old symbol of penguinforce looks like penguin hat... so who is this princess of crystal..
their speeches similar in the way, maybe the group try to obtain penguindrum to complete their objective to stop the child broiler..

on another note: dang it! sanetoshi is FABULOUS MAXX in this ep!!!
 
Nov 26, 2011 3:15 AM

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I still wonder whether they will go back and revisit a lot of things that were introduced earlier in the anime such as:
- Himari's friendship with Double H
- Tabuki and Yuri
- what's going on with those Project Ms
- if Mario, Kanba, and Natsume are all siblings, why has Kanba seemingly abandoned them?

and I'm sure I've forgotten a lot, but this show has managed to put so much content but still keep my attention.

These next 4 weeks are going to be FABULOUSSSS MAXXX
 
Nov 26, 2011 4:05 AM

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I love this show, but I'm still kinda lost ... :'D I hope they explain everything.. XD

Oh and RingoxShouma ftw~
 
Nov 26, 2011 5:29 AM
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Such a poignant episode. Himari crouched on the stairs was so sad. Another thing that makes me sad is that one of the best series I've ever watched is nearing its conclusion.

However despite indications to the contrary I think that Shouma is going to end up with Ringo or nobody. Especially coz of the way he opens up to her telling her about him and Himari.

joongki said:
"many children are turning invisible as we speak, THIS IS UNFORGIVABLE"
"yes dad oh btw i need some cash for himari's medicine if that's alright"

lol ok there kanba


yup kanba is a badass as ever.
 
Nov 26, 2011 8:17 AM

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Shoma looks so cute & pudgy as a child! :3
I think I'm one of the slower ones. Didn't even realize Natsume and Kanba are related!
For some reason, I always feel like I'm watching a 52 ep anime. The amount of revelations and storytelling in Penguindrum is incredible.
 
Nov 26, 2011 12:05 PM

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Raven_Shinobi said:
kirarakim said:


I agree. I don't know why people have given up on Shouma/Ringo when this episode gave plenty of hints that Shouma/Himari isn't meant to be.

If Shouma is Himari's destined groom that Sanetoshi referred to in Ep 9, then he'd like for them to get together at all costs, even if it turned out to be just a marriage of convience to make his plans come to fruition. I think he might have brought up kissing to tempt Himari, and now that Shouma is her friend Ringo's love interest, this renders Shouma to sort of a forbidden fruit. We'll find out soon enough.


i also gotta read the novels*.*

Thank you Raven;)

I have a feeling that before the last episode we´ll get trolled again and we will find out something like Himari being in love with Kanba but doesnt want to get their "family" feeling destroyed or something like that, lol. (but then i wonder who Kanba really loves...the princess of crystal or Himari? ). And the talk about kissing...Kanba also kissed Himari as well as Shou "kissed" Ringo...definitely means something XD and Sanetoshi told Himari something like "do you want to obtain the fruit?" which makes me think perhaps she wants the fruit (love)of Kanba. Remember he has one on his hand on the flashback. Which means that currently Himari might be talking not about Shou but about Kanba, since she already obtained Shou´s fruit.
and Sanetoshi definitely wants to kiss Himari, but he loves Momoka so...?. Hope we can get the answer of that riddle next ep.

You´ve got a point there. I wonder what Sanetoshi really wants. I also dont see this yet turning into Shou x Himari.
But then i think we have more possibilities of getting a Shou x Ringo end than a Himari x Kanba end.

And i bet penguindrum will only appear at the last episode.

oh btw and about supporting charas, i want a Yuri x Tabuki end !!!
Modified by Orulyon, Nov 26, 2011 12:11 PM

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Nov 26, 2011 12:16 PM

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If someone have to die, I think the option is between Kanba and Ringo
Kanba because in both openings is shown falling down, distanced of the others and stuff like that
and Ringo because she is shown ablaze, like a hint that she will use the diary of destiny.
 
Nov 26, 2011 1:37 PM

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this episode,.. so sad ,so lovely ,so fabulous!

"so, you want to obtain the fruit. kiss alone is not enough..."
for a second there I though Himari wants to be pregnant
 
Nov 26, 2011 3:46 PM

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Throughout this series we have seen progressively more information revealed about just what it is all about. The latest confirmation of just what the family relationships are between the "Takakura" children is an example. What most impresses me, is that even though we were presented with limited information at the start (including some misleading information), there has never been a moment where I felt that I needed to have read the LN (or played a VN or game) in order to understand who was who in an episode. Considering how a couple of high profile and anticipated shows this season have failed miserably in this regard (Horizon anyone?), this is quite an achievement.

I've already given this a 10 and I don't think that rating is going to change over the next four weeks, but I do really want to get my hands on a translation of the LNs and read the series.
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Nov 26, 2011 3:50 PM
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this show is FABULOUS MAX indeed ......it's gets more and more connected and obvious by every episode ...but well it's still too early to understand everything now . great art + great music + great story + great whatsover = this one hell of a great show :D
 
Nov 26, 2011 7:42 PM

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rodac said:
What most impresses me, is that even though we were presented with limited information at the start (including some misleading information), there has never been a moment where I felt that I needed to have read the LN (or played a VN or game) in order to understand who was who in an episode. Considering how a couple of high profile and anticipated shows this season have failed miserably in this regard (Horizon anyone?), this is quite an achievement.


I thought this was an original work. So there isn't anything like an LN or VN to read first right?
 
Nov 26, 2011 8:01 PM

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wow. this was pretty beautiful. i like himari a little more now and i especially like the random scenes where ringo was present (even if she didnt say anything). shomas character really gained a lot of respect from me. but yea, i think theres a big thing to be said with himari already having "obtained" shoumas apple. he changed both of their fates by giving it to her. i think its down to kanba and himari now. and the reason why kanba abandoned his family. it was so typical of mawaru penguindrum to have a sex crazy brother complex character like masako. her role seems much more defined now. at least for me. i want to say i wasnt surprised that they ended up beings siblings, although i really can't understand how kanba came to be the siding force with shomas parents. and why they consider him their son?
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Nov 26, 2011 9:37 PM
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Himari is the only one who hasn't got a crazy stalker bitch episode, so expecting one along those lines, especially with the ominous curry. Does anyone know what's written on the box?
Modified by spigot, Nov 27, 2011 4:55 AM
 
Nov 26, 2011 9:52 PM

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Guys, here's my analysis...to the entire show so far. Does anyone disagree with this theory? This is a hella confusing show
First, we gotta start with the allegory that we saw on episode 12... well here's a sluggish recap:
Mary had three lambs and an apple tree, they are his/her two treasures. One day the apple trees started dying, and all the fruits it bore disappeared. Soon after, the two dark bunnies appear and tells him a way to revive the tree, which is by taking the goddess' flames. Then the goddess punished the youngest lamb(Himari).

Okay, here's the thing. In this allegory, everything has to represent something. "Mary" was the father, who ending up having Himari as 'collateral' (remember how you can use life force as like a currency? being transferable?) to regain his other treasures, 'the apples', when he stole the 'flame' from the 'goddess'; the one to told them how to do that is Sanetoshi, obviously represented by the twin black rabbits (sort of life the whisper of the devil).

Well then, first question: What represents the flames and the goddess?

Given that the apple means


(it doesn't exactly have ANY magical properties, but just a symbolic object), this would mean that the allegory reflects that: their father went nuts out of despair with the cruelty of the world (he lost his apples, which symbolizes 'happiness', 'hope', and 'future') and planned the attack with hopes that somehow it would somehow allow him to regain what was lost. Or so Sanetoshi (or the Rabbit) made him believe. This eventually caused Momoka to completely sacrifice herself to change 'fate'.

Now, this is the key point: Momoka sacrificed herself USING the Fate Diary, the only object thus far capable of shifting realities (now that apples are out of the equatiion). I can't think of what else the flame could possibly mean, or any other reason their father would be manipulated by Sanetoshi IF NOT for the flames (aka the Fate Diary).
In short: the flames had been the objective all along, and Sanetoshi only used their father as a pawn in an elaborate plan to manipulate Momoka, the wielder and the 'guardian' of the flames, into sacrificing herself.

By any means, the plan was successful, and a part of that flame was stolen from the goddess, only the stolen flames were very faint. The only user that was capable of using these flames was Momoka, so once she dies, what's the point of having something you can't use? Obviously Sanetoshi can't touch the flames himself, otherwise he wouldn't need the help of "Mary" to acquire the flames.

This is where the penguin hats come in. The hats are a manifestation of the fragments of the flame (byproducts of whatever incident that occurred 16 years ago), they are extremely faint on their own while separated from the main body, yet nonetheless, it still has the ability (like the fate diary) to convert life force into tiny miracles (not to the extent the main body, the Fate Diary can), which is how they managed to keep Himari alive by sacrificing Kanba's life force. But this fragment, being separated from the body, is extremely weak, and cannot sustain this miracle, which is why the quest has always been to acquire the Penguindrum.

Now, for the million dollar question: WHO IS THE PERSON INSIDE THE HAT?

Because there aren't that many clues disclosed so far, I can only speculate.

So on top of my analysis of the story thus far, here's a little crackpot theory:

The FATE DIARY (the flames) and the GODDESS are inseparable, meaning that the flames are at the very core of the goddess. The goddess was much more powerful when she was whole with the Fate Diary, and she deemed Momoka to be its wielder because she has a good heart, and infused her consciousness with Momoka's. However, Sanetoshi, always envious of her powers (he probably is an entity of the same caliber, except without the all-powerful Diary, the Dark Rabbits might've even been the Goddess' pet), decided to seize this opportunity for his own ambitions (think Homunculus and Brotherhood). After he manages to break off the actual goddess from her source of power and trap her within a hat, all that's left is to convince her to transfer the ownership of the Diary to himself. Since the goddess' consciousness is now infused with Himari's, symbolically, Sanetoshi must make her his "bride" in order to control the Diary. The goddess knew that she was weak and that she might die (along with her host), if she doesn't reunite with the Diary soon. Which is the whole premise behind episode 9. If Himari (goddess inside) had accepted Sanetoshi's kiss, it'd have been all over - she'd live for certain but would have to share the flames with Sanetoshi as she's wed him. But, of course, Himari chose to refuse his offer, and the scene ends with her plummeting back to reality.

BUT, this is also where they had one of the most important conversation in the show, which is what I'm basing this entire theory on:
*Himari was still herself, even though this all happened in her deep subconscious*
Himari: Whose bride will I become?
Sanetoshi: The answer to that is already at the destination of fate.
Himari: The destination of fate? Where is that?
Sanetoshi: You should already know that place. I'll tell you the answer when you need me again, after you return to the real world. About the destination of fate, whose bride you are... until then... ***Himari stops the kiss***.
Himari: No.

... cuts to a flashback ... yup. the very same one where Shouma gave her the apple (of hope).

-Sanetoshi is "telling" Himari the answer to the destination of fate (the ending that He wants) by targeting her in the conscious world, because the goddess is dormant inside of her (because she's so weak), Sanetoshi only has to manipulate Himari into becoming her "bride".
-The significance of the flashback is: Himari defied Sanetoshi because she sincerely believed that there's only one person that she can share this with: her soul mate (who also happens to have a good heart), so she gambled her life on Shouma.
Modified by ideoidiom, Nov 27, 2011 12:12 AM
 
Nov 27, 2011 12:10 AM

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Questions are answered but more are raised....

So it seems to be confirmed that Masako and Kanba are related, which makes Masako's stalkerish behaviour rather creepy (not to mention the kiss, haha). But then how are they separated? How did Kanba end up in the Takakura household? If he's not the Takakura son, why is he the one meeting with the parents and taking care of Himari and Shouma? Maybe Kanba's father is a good friend/cult co-leader to Kenzan, and Kanba is taking over that role?

It seems that Kanba loves Himari more than the sibling love? and that's why Masako is jealous. So I wonder if Kanba and Himari had a fated meeting when they were younger too that made him pay attention to her and leave Masako's family to join Shou and Himari's?

The flashback was sad. Kitty, nuuuuuuu!!!!! It makes me wonder if the Child Broiler is a real place or not. I'm pretty sure with Tabuki it wasn't a real place, that it's a metaphorical place, but now it seems like a real place, since Shouma and Kenzan were talking about it? The apple that Shou gave Himari seems to be imagined by Himari at least, so maybe the Broiler itself is metaphorical too?

Speaking of Tabuki though, I see a lot of parallel between Shouma saving Himari and Momoka saving Tabuki. Shouma and Momoka saved Himari and Tabuki because they didn't want Himari and Tabuki to give up on themselves. It's a gesture of kindness perhaps, because Shouma and Momoka are considerate people and don't want to abandon their friends.

However, their gesture of kindness for saving them was interpreted by Himari and Tabuki as love, and "soul mates", because Shouma and Momoka were the first and only people to show kindness to them. As we can see, Tabuki was obsessed with Momoka, believing she was his fated one, but I don't think Momoka feels the same way; there's no concrete evidence, but it seems to me that Momoka saw Tabuki as a dear friend, just as she views Yuri as a dear friend. She doesn't see Tabuki as her fated one.

So same with Himari I think. She saw Shouma as her fated one/soul mate because he was the only person to show her kindness. But like Momoka, I don't think Shouma sees Himari as his fated one, just as a dear friend who he made into family.

So I don't think the show is going in the direction of Shouma x Himari. And I think Himari realizes this (that Shouma doesn't see her as a fated one), and decides not to pursue it (as seen by her talk with Sanetoshi (who's getting creepier, though his bunnies' antics are funny, like the penguins').

Btw, Kenzan talks like Princess of the Crystal, who comes from the destination of their fates. Hm.....
 
Nov 27, 2011 3:03 AM

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There is one reason why I think Child Broiler isn't the real place...
We already had three flashbacks of Himari in CB (Episodes 9, 19 and 20), but except
"-Let's share the fruit of fate.
-Thank you for choosing me."
They are totally different...

Never saw no miracle of science, that didn't go from a blessing to a curse
Never saw no military solution, that didn't end up as something worse
 
Nov 27, 2011 4:32 AM

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ideoidiom said:




Very convincing!

This explains why Princess of the Crystal, if aren't Momoka, talk to Shouma and Ringo using the words "you humans".
Modified by PaninaManina, Nov 27, 2011 7:05 AM
 
Nov 27, 2011 7:39 AM

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Magnificent episode.
The child broiler scene is simply topnotch. DAT OST!!!
Also, it's already in ep 20 and still it's going everywhere.
 
Nov 27, 2011 8:12 AM

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Yupp, the vocal version of that track was so amazing!! *o*

@spigot: It's Penguin Curry, they sell it too. xD
 
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