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Poll: Mawaru Penguindrum Episode 20 Discussion

Nov 27, 2011 10:02 AM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 715
Minna, anyone knows how to contact Ikuhara?
For real, i want to have a interview with him.
There are some mail by which I can contact him?
Nov 27, 2011 11:28 AM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 518
PaninaManina said:
Minna, anyone knows how to contact Ikuhara?
For real, i want to have a interview with him.
There are some mail by which I can contact him?
lol, you beat me to the question. However I'm looking for his IRL mailbox rather than email. I feel like organasing a flashmob to send Ikuhara-sensei some apples as a thank-you gift for the show xD

ideoidiom said:
Guys, here's my the entire show so far. Does anyone disagree with this theory? This is a hella confusing show

Wow! Sugoi!!! That's quite some job you've done! A very interesting read! I don't agree with it though :P One of the major reasons - episode 19 and Sanetoshi's words: "I wonder if that was enough to make her burn the diary. After all. I can't do it myself. I can't win the game with that thing around". So rather than getting his hands on the diary, he wants it to disappear, to be gone from the world. This unfortunately goes against your theory.
I know you have asked me already what's my own point of view on the Diary itself. Sorry, I'm quite limited with my time because RL > Internet, but let me answer it quickly for now. I think that the Diary itself is an allusion to the Bible. The Diary itself is just a book. The so-called spell written in the diary is nothing but a teaching how to find God through Love. Diary is not the penguindrum itself. Diary is only the key how to be able to use the penguindrum and change the world around to the better. So, I don't think that God and Bible are really that inseparable. But were the Book to entirely disappear from the world, people would forget about the God itself...

Oh, thanks a lot to everyone of you who contacts me to thank for my posts. I'm very grateful to you all and this stunning show itself. Hopefully I'll post my thoughts about the episode 20 later tonight. An epic episode indeed. But there's so much to write that I'm not sure I can handle it in time.
Nov 27, 2011 4:44 PM

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1
Shouma, Himari, and the other questions in the episode aside, I'm wondering about the goals the Kiba/Penguin group has. For most of the series I thought they had some screwed idea of justice in which they had to kill people to to achieve it (kinda like Hitler? But terrorists?). But after hearing the father's conversation with Shouma about the child broiler I got the impression that he wanted to stop it... So maybe the group's motives are actually good? And most of society does not realize how corrupt their world is? Is the group taking the right actions against it or the wrong ones?
Do they realize the world is corrupt because they ate the apples?
But I also read an idea somewhere that maybe the apples come from the child broiler... That seems contradicting -.-
But I don't think the group supports the child broiler in any way... If they did I think Takakura would've objected to Shouma taking in Himari.
Nov 27, 2011 6:51 PM

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 502
Hmm. I'm not sure exactly how the book works, but it certainly isn't an artifact like Death Note, where anyone can write in it and it can come true. For example, when regular people like Ringo read the diary, it was a regular diary, filled with things that Momoka wanted to to do Tabuki, but none of that came true, which means writing on it isn't the proper method (thus not everyone can use it). But if it's just a worthless piece of symbolic object, why did Momoka stop Yuri from touching it in episode 15? No. There are more secrets to the Diary, or, more precisely, the "spell".

Also, I don't think Sanetoshi's objective is to destroy the Diary, because it would be far, far, too easy to accomplish. I mean think about it: if the Diary was indeed his Kryptonite, he would have used all means necessary to destroy it, and he had 16 years to do it. 16 years. All that time it's been sitting with Ringo, and with all the resources Sanetoshi (probably) has access to, it would have been easy, to say the least, to snatch it from her, or even have a hired gun to destroy it. So physical ownership of the Diary is unnecessary, but the spell, or whatever the forces was behind shifting realities, are. (You shouldn't be able to tear apart such an important artifact anyway)

What exactly is the nature of the spell? (Definitely not everyone can use it, so what makes Momoka special?)

I can't discern all the secrets of the Diary, because it's mostly a mystery at the moment and still could basically develop in any direction. But I can try to connect the dots.
It isn't a coincidence that what was written on that Diary was Momoka's 'dreams' of a future with Tabuki. Since the 'fuel' for the spell had been one's lifespan, the 'future' that was written on that Diary would have come true, but instead, Momoka used her future (remember the ongoing apple theme?) as sacrifice to cast the spell. The brighter one's future is, the more powerful the spell. Thus, the Diary is actually a record of the happiness she forgone, or, as it pertains to the allegory, the "ashes"(residue) of the flames.

In fact, this is a wild swing, but, is it possible that the 'future' she used up went beyond her lifetime? Because I think the whole deal with Ringo feeling like she's the reincarnation of Momoka has something to do with this. It'd be a hell of a back story for Ringo. But who knows.

At any rate, I think we still need more clues as to how the spell takes form. (a book? a set of chanted words? a 'plea' to the goddess (kind of like a deal with the devil)?)

I think these are two huge mysteries that remain unsolved:
1. Just where did this 'spell' come from? Since it's existence is even beyond Sanetoshi himself, and there seems to be 'rules' governing their little game, just who is this 'higher being' governing the rules?

2. What is Sanetoshi's motive? I very much dislike the proposition that Sanetoshi is simply enjoying himself by manipulating people from the shadows. Although there is no doubt that he is, like the Hat Girl, a deity beyond human, he doesn't seem to be in complete control of things.
Modified by ideoidiom, Nov 27, 2011 6:59 PM
Nov 27, 2011 7:25 PM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 715
Mamoka, unlike all the others characters, was much loved by his family.
Nov 28, 2011 8:40 AM

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1134
Every time I hear the Takakura father, I can't stop thinking of Touga from Utena.
Nov 28, 2011 8:47 AM

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 313
I really love this show!! @_@
Nov 29, 2011 6:25 AM

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 83
Just a quick and simple note: did anyone else notice that Takakura siblings (so-called) have NEVER used any kind of brotherly/sisterly expression? Shouma and Kanba never adressed to each other as "aniki", nor Himari called anyone of them "onii-san", nor did they call her "onee-chan" even once.

I think that in fact nobody will pair up with anyone (Shouma and Ringo have a chance, though). I don't like what I love better - Kanba x Himari or Kanba x Masako, but it's too late for Himari to notice Kanba and for him to change his attitude towards Masako. All love unrequited.

Also, maybe we've misunderstood Masako's love for Kanba? She despises Himari, especially when she calls herself his sister - if Masako and Kanba are really siblings, then Masako's just jealous of some random unrelated girl taking her beloved brother away, taking someone who's originally and really "hers", stealing and destroying her own family.
We have to keep our dreams alive. Something to look forward to.
Nov 29, 2011 7:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3
Why would they call Himari 'onee-chan', when it's their little sister. They called her 'our imouto' sometimes, which means 'little sister' + Shouma did adresses Kanba with 'aniki' (which is not necessarily only used for siblings).
Nov 29, 2011 7:57 AM

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1016
I'm not particularly attached to any particular couple, which is a first for me. However, this episode made me love Shouma x Himari. They were so cute together. Of course I've also loved those moments between Himari x Kanba. As for Ringo x Shouma...I just can't seem to care either way, so whether they end up together or not...its all the same to me. I just hope that by the end both Shouma and Himari are happy, whether together or apart.
I am a sucker for romance!!!!

Nov 29, 2011 8:45 AM

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 83
Himari is only 1-2 years younger than them (or maybe actually the same age, since she's not related to them). Besides, doesn't "imouto" stand for any kind of sister, older and younger? It's simply a word with this meaning, but not a way to adress.

And onee-chan is acceptable for a younger one. It'd be weird if they called her onee-san.
We have to keep our dreams alive. Something to look forward to.
Nov 29, 2011 10:44 AM

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 636
StarryKite said:
Himari is only 1-2 years younger than them (or maybe actually the same age, since she's not related to them). Besides, doesn't "imouto" stand for any kind of sister, older and younger? It's simply a word with this meaning, but not a way to adress.

And onee-chan is acceptable for a younger one. It'd be weird if they called her onee-san.

Imouto (and Ototo) are only used for younger siblings, while as Onii-chan/san/sama (and Onee-chan/san/sama) are only used when addressing older siblings. When older siblings address younger ones, they usually call them by their names and may add chan or kun to it.

As for Masako, it was obvious when she went as far as kissing Kanba that she was romantically in love with him. Ikuhara also explored incest in Utena, though his approach in that series didn't indicate that he was pro-incest.
Modified by Hayatempest, Nov 29, 2011 10:54 AM
Kihel:"from Dianna Soreil to Dianna Soreil."
Dianna: "from Kihel Heim to Kihel Heim."
Nov 29, 2011 3:30 PM

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 216
Another wonderful episode :) I think that the penguindrum will end up being fate in general, rather than a concrete object, just as the child broiler seems to exist only metaphorically.
Nov 29, 2011 5:23 PM

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 780
Wow, I never really appreciated the music in this show until the end of this episode. Music was just...*gets shivers down spine*

Nov 30, 2011 6:58 AM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Yes I'm totally sane and mean exactly this - we saw the SPINNING PENGUINDRUM itself again, two times in this episode.
Penguindrum in ep.20 #1

Penguindrum in ep.20 #2

Let me explain.
As I said earlier in episode 18's discussion thread, in my opinion invisible was not the best choice for the word 透明「toumei」, which means transparent, clean, pure. And episode 20 just proved it again. There's TOO MUCH going on about the need to clean this world. Back in episode 17 and episode 14 we've already seen one cleaning device:
Spinning Drum Washing Machine in ep.14

Pink washing machine in ep.17

And now we have another one - the garbage truck which gets rid of the trash. Still surprised it's also coloured in pink? Hehe... And do you know what happens to the trash afterwards? Yes... it's processed (crushed into pieces) and burned... as long as its burnable of course, but let's leave this flammable matter at that for now, because I'd like to deal with cleaning the trash topic first.

And that's how we come to the Penguindrum #2 mentioned above - that pinkish spinning device that crushes abandoned kids at the child broiler into pieces of broken glass, turning them into invisible entities, performing the cleaning, removing trash.
What a frozen world indeed. It's absolutely fantastic how Ikuhara connected the Invisible Entities, those transparent pieces of broken glass, with the snow of the Frozen World. See it for yourself:
Snow of the frozen world

Snow of the broken glass

What it means is that the meaning behind the term "Frozen" is being dead or rather being numb to the point of being unable to give something to the world. In other words "Frozen world" is the world that is only capable of taking. This actually brings me to one of the most important topics of this episode:

chase and run as give and take / kiss and fruition as unrequited love and mutual love
No, seriously, I think it's time to open a "Mawaru Penguindrum Vocabulary" thread to explain how all words used by Ikuhara are interchangable and connected to each other. Here's a quick guide I came up with while watching the episode. I hope it'll help you to understand the episode and the show in general. Especially the part where Sanetoshi talks to Himari. I put its "translation" under the spoiler further below.
But first, the keywords:
to chase - to give, share (one-sided)
to run - to take, accept (one-sided)
to kiss - to give love (in an unrequited manner, without anything in return, i.e. also one-sided give only)
fruit - love
to come into fruition - to turn into mutual love (two-sided feeling, implying both giving and taking)
become empty/consumed - become unneeded, i.e. turn to trash

Now remember the very beginning of the episode and Kenzan's complaints about this Frozen world only taking and not giving anything in return. Also remember that it's Kenzan who calls this "not giving" with "being unable to amount to anything", so:
don't give = take only = to not amount to anything = being unneeded = being trash/frozen

This leads to interesting conclusions:

to chase -> to give without getting anything in return -> becoming empty, consumed -> becoming unable to give anymore -> becoming unable to amount to anything -> turn to trash and get crushed into pieces


to run -> to take without giving anything back -> to not amount to anything -> turn to trash and get crushed into pieces

LOL, whether you chase or run it looks like you're inevitably turn to trash. And this is where Sanetoshi's "translated" conversation with Himari becomes really interesting. Just read it first (my occasional comments are in parenthesis):

So, let me stress the important lines again:
H: I'm just curious...
If the other side is only taking, should I just give?
Will that turn unrequited love to mutual love?
S: Sometimes it will.
This is what we see a few moments later in the Metro's Today's Slogan:
One man's trash is another man's treasure!
So there IS a difference between chasing and running. Because chasing (giving) at least have the possibility to get you something in return, while running will get you straight to the child broiler. And only if you're lucky enough someone will save you from that place. Tabuki and Himari were the lucky ones but in the end, even after they were saved, they only kept running.
What's the point for Sanetoshi to tell all that? I believe that he's actually speaking to the PoC/Momoka. He wants Momoka to see with her own eyes (through Himari and Mario) that sacrificing herself for the people, that saving them in 1995, that derailing the fate - that all of it was useless. In other words, he wants to prove her that the Christ's crucifixion didn't amount to anything, that no matter how much love Momoka gave to the world, the society, the world itself is still broken. So the only optimal way for this world - as Sanetoshi sees it - is destruction, the Judgement Day. The endtime is the destination of fate and that's where he's heading, together with the PingForce/KIGA group.
But Sanetoshi is mistaken. Himari is of course scared of giving and sharing love, but... she nevertheless DOES it, or rather, starts doing it. She did knit the sweaters for her brothers. She truly loves them. And this feeling IS mutual.

Come to think about it, there's one more word reference to "chasing" used in the show. And this word is Hunt, as mentioned by Masako in ep. 11 in her conversation with Kamba. When he called Masako a stalker, she replied that "this world's just a love hunting zone" and that she's a "love hunter". "True love that seeks naught return" - wih this sentence she claims she doesn't want anything in return. An even though we all know how much she wants the trashy Kamba to stop running away from her, she doesn't give up on him, she keeps stalking him, she keeps chasing him. Masako really is a giver in this sense, perhaps a rude and sometimes overly passionate one, but she's definitely the giver, just like Ringo and Momoka.
And seriously, it's amazing how rewatching the episode 11 made so much sense about what was going on. Masako knew Kamba's secret - she knew he met with Takakuras - and looks like she did her best to prevent this from leaking. And Kamba, leaving her residence with a Frozen penguin on a gurney - he merely felt useless, being unable to get the Diary from Masako and save his beloved Himari!

What's more... now I recall that the penguins originally arrived Frozen to the siblings, right? Then this is yet another "Frozen = Trash" reference!
And Fire... Fire is like the opposite of this Freezing Coldness. I guess Fire... This Warming Fire of the Goddess, the warmth of giving and receiving, warmth of mutual love, THE FRUIT IS the penguindrum. It is something that demolishes the frozen trash either this way or another. Be it Kenzan's way - Child Broiler crushing machine. Be it Momoka's way - Love of the people dear and important to you. In Kenzan's way, those who lost the ability to give love die. In Momoka's way - they obtain the Mutual Love, their love from and to society, their love from and to their parents, their love from and to their beloved ones.

Ah, screw you Takakura Kenzan... I know I shouldn't be writing something like this. After all, you might have had your own parents issues... but this is so wrong... you guys blame the world for being frozen, but your hearts are deeply frozen no less, you don't give the Love yourself. Instead of giving examples of proper behaviour to the world, instead of spreading Love like Momoka did, you decided to just crash everything into pieces and build a new society based on Chosen ones. And you call such a Judgement Day the Survival Strategy! Who gave you the right to judge? Have you ever considered that what trash is for you is a treasure for somebody else?! Why are only your own sons chosen and everyone else's not? Even Himari x Shouma wasn't convincing enough? Just why? You blame the world for being useless, because they prohibit taking care of kittens, but if not for your own son, you would've let Himari die just like million of other abandoned kids. Just how are the mass murders you've been organising supposed to help those unneeded children who you yourself treat as trash?
Really, the whole show is kinda like: Survival Strategy, what will it be - Love or Judgement Day? Momoka goes with Love, while Sanetoshi votes for the Judgement Day.
Somebody mentioned above that we might have an Evangelion's final... Given the episode is called "Survival Strategy", this might actually really happen...

Ah.. whatever... What else did I notice in this episode?
Last week I mentioned the Himari's scarf and questioned myself about its colours. My crazy idea was that Himari knitted that scarf herself, but I totally ignored her age... of course that would be impossible! And in this episode it became clear that the colours of that scarf referred to Shouma and Himari herself. It's another beatiful metaphor of the fate thread binding the two.

This makes me seriously question, what did PoC meant in episode 12 when she said to Ringo and Shouma that they lost the penguindrum and that if they want to break that fate binding they need to obtain the penguindrum and "stop those guys". I thought that PoC was referring to the Ringo x Shouma being bound by fate as she stated at the beginning of the conversation. But she might have actually referred to Himari x Shouma instead all along. "Obtain the penguidrum. If you wish to save you sister's life. If you wish to escape the fate that binds you. If you wish to derail it from its past. Find the penguindrum and..."

Talking more about colours, it's impossible not to mention the trashbins

Based on haircolour: Kamba - recyclable, Shouma - burnable, Himari - nonburnable. Yes, it's exactly the same order and assignment as the penguins appeared in episode #1.
What exactly does it mean? That's a good question. It's clear that all three are considered trash, i.e. they were abandoned by their parents at some point for being no longer able to amount to anything, at least from their parents perspective.
- Kamba became useless for unknown reasons for Natsumes', but he got recycled into Takakuras. He's now protecting Shouma and Himari. Besides he's also following the KIGA group. Notice how he's the only one to keep his conversation with Takakuras'. Unlike Kamba, Himari and Shouma are completely cut off from them.
- Himari, abandoned by her mom, chose to "run" but was nevertheless saved from burning by Shouma. Even though she loves her new family, her brothers, to the point of knitting sweaters for them, up till now she wasn't ready for chasing. So not recyclable like Kamba, but nonburnable. There's always somebody chasing her and willing to save her.
- And, finally, Shouma... no matter how you look at it, he ended up being abandoned by his family the most. He's cut off from his parents and it seems that from their point of view he is "useless" in both his attempts to save Himari and as a member of KIGA group. Kamba mostly cares for Himari, Himari's mostly running away. So Shouma... Shouma really is all alone. Hence burnable.
Well, actually there's Ringo who is supposed to support him. But her connection to Fire in the OP sequences... meh, being a strong Shouma x Ringo shipper it's really hard to accept that for now Ringo's Fire presence only makes burnable Shouma feel more lonely, feel the guilt of his parents, feel his uselessness. Or maybe I'm reading it all wrong... perhaps Ringo is simply the one who's able to lit the fire in Shouma's heart, to let him obtain the penguindrum, and to initiate the right Survival Strategy.

My my... there's still so much on my mind that I want to have posted... but I must make a break because my head starts hurting at this point. And this was probably my longest post ever.... for your own sake and sanity, I sincerely recommend to avoid so much writing and over-thinking xD
Modified by soulelle, Nov 30, 2011 7:10 AM
Nov 30, 2011 7:57 AM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 715
I not sure who is the genius here.... Ikuhara or soulelle?
Modified by PaninaManina, Nov 30, 2011 8:18 AM
Nov 30, 2011 8:35 AM

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 636
soulelle said:
Talking more about colours, it's impossible not to mention the trashbins

I think that the trashbins might be hinting at their fates in the end of the series.

Kanba's conversation with Masako in Ep 11 had raised the death flag over him; if he's the one that the boys from Ep 1 referred to (that he will die and be revived), then it makes sense why he's marked as recycable. As for Himari, she had already survived death twice and it won't make sense if she died in the end after all this drama, which might be why she's marked as non-flammable. As for Shouma, he might end up going up in flames after trying to save the world/his family/whatever; Ringo was also shown burning in the OP, which might hint at her and Shouma teaming up and casting the spell in the diary.

Of course, this is all speculation that could end up being proven wrong by the show :p
Kihel:"from Dianna Soreil to Dianna Soreil."
Dianna: "from Kihel Heim to Kihel Heim."
Nov 30, 2011 9:15 AM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Raven_Shinobi said:
True that. And if Ikuhara still proves this wrong... I don't even know how to react... it's not like I want Shouma x Ringo to end up in Heavens... but the scenario you described definitely makes a huuuge loooot of sense...

haha, thanks, but you'll see, Ikuhara will prove me wrong xD I believe in sensei's trolling))))
anyway, to answer your questions:
PaninaManina said:
1. Just where did this 'spell' come from? Since it's existence is even beyond Sanetoshi himself, and there seems to be 'rules' governing their little game, just who is this 'higher being' governing the rules?
The spell, or the diary, came from the Goddess. I think the Diary is of course not JUST a bible. It definitely has more power than a simple book. I like to see it as the Ashes of the Goddess's flame. Remember how it flamed after the contact with the fake half? But this doesn't leave us further and explain how exactly it must be "activated" to produce the holy flame and change fate. It has something to do with the will to spread love and/or to sacrifice yourself for the sake of the beloved one. It must have to do something with love and fruition. But again this is nothing but a mere speculation.

PaninaManina said:
2. What is Sanetoshi's motive? I very much dislike the proposition that Sanetoshi is simply enjoying himself by manipulating people from the shadows. Although there is no doubt that he is, like the Hat Girl, a deity beyond human, he doesn't seem to be in complete control of things.
Sanetoshi is playing the game as he said himself. I posted above why he wants to derail the fate back on its track and convince Momoka (or rather the Goddess) that it's pointless to share her love to this frozen world without getting anything in return. But why? What makes him do that? As funny as that... I think Sanetoshi is a chaser... and to him... Momoka is a runner... He fell for her and he wants her back... but he's the only one who can't get the love from her... My inner feeling tells me that one of the show premises is to point that perhaps all evil comes from unrequited love and had God not cast Satan from Heavens and loved him instead, perhaps there would have been no evil...
Of course it's also just a crazy speculation... but if there's another couple apart from Shouma x Ringo I'm rooting for in the series, it's Sanetoshi x PoC/Momoka. I believe these two couples have the best chemistry and buildup in the whole show. Just looking at PoC and Sanetoshi glaring at each other at the end of OP2 makes me think - oh my! They just have to be together... hahaha xD or is it just me who was charmed by devil xDDD
Nov 30, 2011 9:26 AM

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 143
I love SanetoshixHimari

This is such a tricky series, I can never predict what's going to happen.. At the moment I think the last few episodes move to the judgement day and that Himari will obtain the diary. (Himari will play a key role, I know it, but I'm not sure what's going to happen)
Nov 30, 2011 9:42 AM

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 954
Penguin world is so fucking narrow minded and ignorant, it's disguisting. THEY THREW A BABY ANIMAL IN THE GARBAGE, WHATTHEFUCK. And EVERYONE knows about the Child Broiler but they refuse to do anything?! Just awful, positivly awful. I'm not sure if the author is trying to illustrate a point about the real world's fowlness, but just wow.

This story is sooooooooo much more different than how it started!! I don't know if I'm happy or saaad~D;

Orulyon said:
]Take that, those who said Shou was useless.


Nov 30, 2011 11:07 AM

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2021
Ep. 19+ love web MAKES ME CONFUSED! I liked it, but... where are these twists going and how are they going to connect.
Nov 30, 2011 11:34 AM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 715
Fishcaek-Chan said:

Dude, this happens a lot.
Every time you type in caps lock, one kitten dies.

Here in Brazil, particularly, there is a bad habit of killing cats and dogs of others with rat poison, besides the natural human cruelty.
Nov 30, 2011 1:18 PM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 715
Need split out something that has bothered me.
Do you have any notion that our beloved series is the most hated of the year?

Since the first episode, every episode, people refuse to discuss as us and insist on regurgitate accusations of being "pseudo".
"Ridiculous," "absurd," "pretentious," "superficial," "empty," "hipster", "fagot," "nonsense "....

I agree with some of these accusations, but what bothers me is that the biggest problem seems to be I like "this much" of Mawaru Penguindrum.
"How can he prefer a more ambitious and original series than the other best of the year, as Madoka and Steins?"

As I said in a post for the blog I collabore - the other guy was so upset that he abandon the boat - , I agree with the translator of the GG, I think the same as he. Penguindrum is "too good to be" anime.
I've never seen an anime that besides having a content so cool, join it with a fantasy so interesting and tell us that story in a way so artistic, so innovative that even demanding that we tie him up the points, gives us all the necessary clues.
And here the problems begin.
Apart from most people do not have the patience to think about the series the same way that soulelle did here, and this is part of the fun, they just do not want. Thus they insist that the answers are not given.
If even in this point they insist that Penguindrum didn't answer anything, something that this topic proves the contrary, imagine what the reaction will not be the end? It is absolutely obvious that even though the script turn around real issues of fact, all this will be joined by the fantasy of Ikuhara. And for them, fantasy is just mockery, not answers.

If there are so many series that are just totally unrealistic and, what is the Penguindrum's crime for being in part fantasy? What logic these people expect from a penguin hat that leads to a dimension of electronic music?
I liked the real-world issues addressed, but stop there. I know very well that the rest will just be madness. These people don't understand that I do not expect anything more from this series and don't accept that I'm okay with that.

It sucks.
It would be so nice if everyone could stop being picky and have fun together.
It is rare to be able to follow a series of this caliber. I feel sorry for those who are losing this experience.

Fica o desabafo, falo mermo Qwerty e JohnMaster!

Back to the work.
Modified by PaninaManina, Nov 30, 2011 1:26 PM
Nov 30, 2011 3:15 PM

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2195
Fishcaek-Chan said:
Penguin world is so fucking narrow minded and ignorant, it's disguisting. THEY THREW A BABY ANIMAL IN THE GARBAGE, WHATTHEFUCK. And EVERYONE knows about the Child Broiler but they refuse to do anything?! Just awful, positivly awful. I'm not sure if the author is trying to illustrate a point about the real world's fowlness, but just wow.

This story is sooooooooo much more different than how it started!! I don't know if I'm happy or saaad~D;

Orulyon said:
Take that, those who said Shou was useless.


i got shocked too, specially because im a pet lover and i contribute to animal organizations. Unfortunately it also happens in my country T_T Roads are filled with abandoned animals and most of them die hit by cars.

Well Ikuhara definitely surprised me so ill be heading to Utena sometime soon XD

LOL, yes my Shou will never be useless~~~It was so cute of him to chase after the kitty and then chase after Himari T_T

PaninaManina said:
Need split out something that has bothered me.
Do you have any notion that our beloved series is the most hated of the year?
"How can he prefer a more ambitious and original series than the other best of the year, as Madoka and Steins?"

Fica o desabafo, falo mermo Qwerty e JohnMaster!

Really?! i thought everyone was loving it. that´s quite surprising. Well but i guess its to be somehow expected. Most of times people hate what they dont understand. I actually like it better when i dont understand it right away, because it usually leads to an epic end, which makes sense. and i enjoy debating theories too.
Take the example of Touka Gettan, an anime that is deeply hated till nowadays because it aired backwards and had the most fucking confusing plot ever because it aired like that. Yet, to me i rated it a huge 9. Hell confusing? yes. But hell unique too and i love unique stuff XD

Also the most underrated series airing is Kimi to boku, which 90% of boys dropped it, labeling it as "gay". Ofc, if they kept watching they would have understand that its not gay and it has a straight love triangle, as well as heart warming moments. Not "boring" as many say.

oops, sorry for the rant. Bye XD

E desabafou muito bem XD

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Nov 30, 2011 4:32 PM

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 99
I know it's most probably not right, but it still surprises me no one has suspected Sanetoshi? (Can't remember his name) to be the Penguin Hat(s). I mean, look at that round, turning thing in his room that seems to be made out of gears (I can't describe it well, lack of vocabulary).. Those red balls, don't they look like the red balls PoC took out of his chest?

Other than that, I'm enjoying this anime a lot, although it confuses me a whole lot. That's part of the fun. <3
Proud mama and papa of Misha Yuuki* (02-01-2014 - 22-01-2014)
Thank you for the wonderful twenty days you gave us. <3
One day we will meet again..
Nov 30, 2011 4:36 PM

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 171
Not sure why but I felt Shouma wasn't a real sibling to Masako and Kanba... She said something like "why isn't that boy listening to the speech" in somewhat despicable way. Or was it just me, I wonder. She definitely treats Mario very differently though.
Nov 30, 2011 10:26 PM

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3362
so the potential wincest isn't wincest. something is going to happen with the parents.

now we need a chart to map out who likes who.
Dec 1, 2011 10:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12
All this talk about pairings . . .is that the only reason you people watch this show? I just don't get it. They are trying to make an incredible story here, which is about to reach its climax and all you can do is cry about Ringo x Shouma not working out? Give me a fucking break.
Dec 1, 2011 11:18 PM

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 83
Calm down, bro. The plot is a masterpiece, but the cast is a one, too. And love itself - family love, friends' love, romantic love - is also one of the main themes of this anime. There's nothing wrong with rooting for beloved couples, especially since we DO need that "chart to map out", since all the characters are in this or that way in love with each other.
We have to keep our dreams alive. Something to look forward to.
Dec 3, 2011 7:57 AM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 715

YUME NIKKI! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Dec 3, 2011 1:18 PM

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3179
that poor kitty :( so fucking wrong.

+ the child broiler is truly upsetting too.

such a powerful/sad episode.
Dec 7, 2011 10:11 PM

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7346
MusashiRose said:
that poor kitty :( so fucking wrong.

And poor Himari. =(

I'm so glad Penguindrum will be bringing the 2011 anime season to a close. A great year of anime, and this week's episode in particular was one of the year's best. Very emotionally powerful.
Dec 18, 2011 2:24 AM

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1534
shouma was so win this episode! so he did save her and i guess there not related then. he says its his fault he knows hes happy living with her. i wonder if shouma feel the same way himari feels for him.
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Dec 23, 2011 12:00 AM

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3777
I swear, it sucks to be a kid in this universe. It sucked even more for that poor kitten. Damn! It doesn't feel like the "family" is going to get closer with all this. It feels more like things are only going to get more complicated.

Damn this episode was so beautiful... *single tear*

Jan 20, 2012 4:16 AM

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3234
Emo himari is best himari
Jan 21, 2012 7:40 AM

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 267
Okay, so let me reiterate what I got from this episode:

(.) Shouma, Kanba, and Himari aren't blood related. (Sorta-kinda guessed this, but it was still a bit of a shocker.)

(.)Shouma, Masako, and Mario are siblings (UM OKAY WHAT THE ACTUAL FU-)

(.)Shouma invited Himari into the Takakura family.

(.)Shouma and Himari raised a kitten.

(.)MP's world is exceptionally cruel (The kitten you gaiz ;_;)

Umm okay...

Maybe it's because I'm slow, but I am no closer to figuring out where the heck this anime is going.

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Feb 8, 2012 11:33 PM

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 389

They weren't kidding when they said MAWARU Penguindrum =/
I think the only thing that made complete sense to me
was the reference about soldiers being melted into tin hearts.
Apr 14, 2012 8:58 PM

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 7062
Dat kitty. =[
Apr 22, 2012 9:23 PM

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 10415
Best episode so far in my opinion. This episode was so emotional, I loved it! Himari and Shouma's past was cute, and sad! :(
Apr 23, 2012 5:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18
I'm confused with some parts. I still ship Shoma x Ringo. I mean, forever.
This sudden Himari x Shoma stuff is like... wtf. No. I don't want that D: SHOMA X RINGO OTP.
May 12, 2012 11:40 AM

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1281
i don't understand what is happening, the way nothing is really explained but sort of left to the watchers understanding, i am finding it hard to enjoy but if i keep thinking that it will be explained in the end i think that helps, does any one know what i mean?
Jun 8, 2012 7:27 PM

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
All the pieces are slowly coming together. Hopefully, all our questions will be answered by the final episode.

Sho and Kanba's parents seem like religous extremists. After finding out Himari wasn't blood related to them, I won't be surprised (though highly unlikely to be true) if Sho and Kanba aren't really brothers. Since those reffered to as "father" could just be leaders of religous organizations.
Jul 25, 2012 4:06 AM

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 332
SoFarGone said:
Shouma why you so pathetic and negative? The useless one gets a harem while Kanba has only Masako.

Not sure which Show you've been watching, but Sho rescued a totally sad and broken Himari from "some" terrible outcome (death? We won't know as long as we can't properly interprete the child broiler - might be suicide?) because he cared so much for her.
I don't know how you can find him pathetic. Sure, he's "negative" now, but that's because he thinks he made things worse, opening an even worse path for Himari. It's his sense of responsibility. I find him more likeable than Kanba, who is viewing himself as the only saviour, not even bothering to try and work together with others. I find his view of him being the only person able to "save" Himari kinda problematic. you do remember that Kanba was the original playboy in the show, having more girls at his disposal than he could possibly count? T_T

Oct 26, 2012 10:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1069
That flashback was adorable ;-; Shouma was such a sweetie.

But I still support Ringo x Shouma.
Nov 7, 2012 6:23 PM

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 744
I wish Himari was part of the family for real I feel every anime likes to what should be a family into a love story. So instead of them being an actual family they are actually lovers w/e good episode though
Nov 16, 2012 3:39 PM

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1292
This episode was so sad yet so cool.
Dec 7, 2012 2:58 PM

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 15152
Jesus, what an episode. I'll admit that I'm kind of confused as far as where everything is going plotwise, but this absolutely nailed the stuff between Shouma and Himari. Really effective portrayal of a girl being "lost" and finding someone to just, you know, be there for her. I about lost it when she woke up to see him and started crying.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
Apr 1, 2013 2:40 PM

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 25620
Damn what an amazing but saddening Backstory! So beautiful but ow so sad! Really awesome episode, strengthens the characters way more and with that backstory stuff really makes it more interesting with the relationship of the characters! That concept of the Child Broiler is still a bit fucked up imo...

But this episode sure was good lets see what's next!
Apr 2, 2013 10:45 PM

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 11047
If those children weren't completely white and flat with outlines those scenes would be quite disturbing.
Apr 3, 2013 7:52 PM

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 323
Man, could this get any more complicated? They better not be making this up as they go.
I like Hentai, you like real life.
Instead of complaining about my tastes, be grateful you now don't have to compete against me.
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