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Poll: Fate/Zero Episode 8 Discussion


Nov 20, 2011 3:58 AM
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^^ lmao.

I guess the only thing that feels off about this show is that the characters don't get killed. There was absolutely no reason for Kirei to not have decapitated Maiya and Iris there before escaping. Instead, leaving them half-dead seemed totally out of character for the cold blooded killer he is portrayed as.
Of course it would be sad to see any of the badass cast die early too but still they should have given a better reason... like for example Saber could have show up as Kirei was about to stab her or something.
Modified by spigot, Nov 20, 2011 4:04 AM
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:00 AM

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^ I sorta agree.
At least he should have killed Maiya.
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:06 AM
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Also was Kirei raping the tree or something? Iris looked so shocked and disgusted, plus at the end she was like "this dude is worse than I imagined".
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:24 AM
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spigot said:
^^ lmao.

I guess the only thing that feels off about this show is that the characters don't get killed. There was absolutely no reason for Kirei to not have decapitated Maiya and Iris there before escaping. Instead, leaving them half-dead seemed totally out of character for the cold blooded killer he is portrayed as.
Of course it would be sad to see any of the badass cast die early too but still they should have given a better reason... like for example Saber could have show up as Kirei was about to stab her or something.
Nope. Saber was coming. Kirei may be pretty overpowered but he's still no match for a Servant. Not for Saber anyway. What he did by letting them live was force Saber to make a choice: try to provide assistance of go after him. Of course she chose the former. Plus, he has no idea about Avalon so Iri would be pretty much dead. Short version: he left them alive to save his own ass.
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:33 AM

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Dusk252 said:
spigot said:
^^ lmao.

I guess the only thing that feels off about this show is that the characters don't get killed. There was absolutely no reason for Kirei to not have decapitated Maiya and Iris there before escaping. Instead, leaving them half-dead seemed totally out of character for the cold blooded killer he is portrayed as.
Of course it would be sad to see any of the badass cast die early too but still they should have given a better reason... like for example Saber could have show up as Kirei was about to stab her or something.
Nope. Saber was coming. Kirei may be pretty overpowered but he's still no match for a Servant. Not for Saber anyway. What he did by letting them live was force Saber to make a choice: try to provide assistance of go after him. Of course she chose the former. Plus, he has no idea about Avalon so Iri would be pretty much dead. Short version: he left them alive to save his own ass.

^

this.

Saber, while technically slower servant, could still outrun and catch up Kirei in seconds if wanted.

Chuch members, EVEN IF HORRIBLY OVERPOWERED, are still juts a fodder for servants(servants are pretty much near the top of food chain in nasuverse). Even Ciel, who is, well, the strongest known church member, is said to only be able to fight a generic servant on defensive.

There are things even higher on the food chain of nasuverse power levels than servants of course.

In FSN, Unless you are Shirou Emiya or certain other person, you have absolutely no chance against a servant. None. At. All.

Leaving her with no choice but to help those two, Kirei bough this own life, so to say.
Modified by Ahenshihael, Nov 20, 2011 4:36 AM
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:54 AM

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Fai said:
Monad said:

the thing that leaves me feel kind of weird is the fight with Kirei. Isn't the guy human? Wtf was with pullets bouncing off him? And then even if i accept that his powerful enough to bring a tree down he certainly took quite some time why didn't Iris just pick the gun from the ground and start shooting him before he break loose or the knife to stab him?
That battle really wasn't made very well.


Kirei is part of the church.

Church members in nasuverse are UBER BADASS, magical artifacts, enhanced clothes and etc included.

They(minus Ciel from tsukishime VN) would have no chance at all to survive a servant, but generally have abilities to waste a lot of characters :)


So basically Kirei is a dude who is TRAINED to fight supernatural and natural(minus servants), has stuff in his arsenal to do that and is wearing kevlar.


You know i find it stupid that the fate animes explain nothing and expect us to go get clarifications from people who played VNs or read the novels. Shit like that is ridiculous.
You can't be making staff under the assumption that people should know staff you never showed them.
Even the most basic concept that it's the RPG style names the heroes are called with and that they have stats etc where hardly explained. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Showing us shit with out even explaining anything they are showing.
They are showing us a world with out explaining how that world works. That is a very basic mistake.
And it really isn't hard to include some extra explanations very fast with out taking time. They are freaking retarded. F/Z managed to explain a few staff better than F/N ever did but the truth is that if people didn't get explanations in forums half the show will seem like pointless shit happening.
Hell even with a tone of explanations and still some things aren't clear.
 
Nov 20, 2011 5:16 AM
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@Dusk252
Are you saying that Kirei cannot outrun Saber after killing the two? ...must be a slower runner.Kirei do run very funny after stabbing her lol

About the Kiritsugu's scene,I thought Kiritsugu can use timestop to kill Kayneth .Since killing his master will perish the servant as well..
 
Nov 20, 2011 5:19 AM

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Monad said:
Fai said:
Monad said:

the thing that leaves me feel kind of weird is the fight with Kirei. Isn't the guy human? Wtf was with pullets bouncing off him? And then even if i accept that his powerful enough to bring a tree down he certainly took quite some time why didn't Iris just pick the gun from the ground and start shooting him before he break loose or the knife to stab him?
That battle really wasn't made very well.


Kirei is part of the church.

Church members in nasuverse are UBER BADASS, magical artifacts, enhanced clothes and etc included.

They(minus Ciel from tsukishime VN) would have no chance at all to survive a servant, but generally have abilities to waste a lot of characters :)


So basically Kirei is a dude who is TRAINED to fight supernatural and natural(minus servants), has stuff in his arsenal to do that and is wearing kevlar.


You know i find it stupid that the fate animes explain nothing and expect us to go get clarifications from people who played VNs or read the novels. Shit like that is ridiculous.
You can't be making staff under the assumption that people should know staff you never showed them.
Even the most basic concept that it's the RPG style names the heroes are called with and that they have stats etc where hardly explained. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Showing us shit with out even explaining anything they are showing.
They are showing us a world with out explaining how that world works. That is a very basic mistake.
And it really isn't hard to include some extra explanations very fast with out taking time. They are freaking retarded. F/Z managed to explain a few staff better than F/N ever did but the truth is that if people didn't get explanations in forums half the show will seem like pointless shit happening.
Hell even with a tone of explanations and still some things aren't clear.


Maiya shouted " He´s an executor!An expert at hunting magi!" and if the bullet didn´t work you can deduce that his using magic or the suit is bullet proof, he placed his arms over his head to cover it with the suit too...There is some things that first you can presume before waiting for an explanation. And I don´t see the needing for a explicit explanation on this part of Kirei.
 
Nov 20, 2011 5:42 AM

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Fai said:
Kirei is part of the church.

Church members in nasuverse are UBER BADASS, magical artifacts, enhanced clothes and etc included.

They(minus Ciel from tsukishime VN) would have no chance at all to survive a servant, but generally have abilities to waste a lot of characters :)

So basically Kirei is a dude who is TRAINED to fight supernatural and natural(minus servants), has stuff in his arsenal to do that and is wearing kevlar.


I do wish people would stop with this (humans being no match for a servant) hyperbole.

There are so many exceptions within Fate/Stay Night with characters less formidable than Kotomine taking on or even killing Servants that it becomes something of a joke.

I mean when the plot calls for it all it takes is magically reinforced fists to take on a Servant, suddenly the Servants who moments before were moving so fast that humans can't perceive them are being beaten up by a regular human.

Luckily in Fate/Zero the rule actually tends to apply.
 
Nov 20, 2011 5:43 AM

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Reesebiz said:
I got the weirdest boner when Irisiviel got stabbed.
I don't get how some people can get a orgasmic kick out of all this but OK then. Right.

- BLOG - My Club- Easiest way to reach the rest of my thoughts!
 
Nov 20, 2011 5:49 AM

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Monad said:

You know i find it stupid that the fate animes explain nothing and expect us to go get clarifications from people who played VNs or read the novels. Shit like that is ridiculous.

Blame studio DEEn who adapted the FSN novel. Pretty much all the routes there had explanation on just what Kirei is and why he is dangerous and had him do awesome shit.

Studio DEEn apparently decided that adding anime original Sakura in latex suit was far more important stuff than world building.

F/zero sort of assumes the person has read the novel, since its well, quite faithful adaptation so far that ignores the FSN anime itself.

So just a mention that Kirei is an Executor of The Church should be enough.
Monad said:

Even the most basic concept that it's the RPG style names the heroes are called with and that they have stats etc where hardly explained.

Yet again blame Studio DEEN.

Even stuff like EXPLAINING ON WHY THIS WHOLE THING IS HAPPENING IN THE FIRST PLACE, was shafted away and not included in FSN adaptation.

Overall, the VN itself manages to explain how magic works and why the war happens in prologue alone and was generally very informative.

To correctly adapted FSN VN, one would have needed THREE sets of 13 episodes each, for each route(since technically EVERY route is canon, parallel universe that exists there and interacts with others).

Sadly for Studio DEEN, saving money was far more important goal when adapting FSN, so not only they decided to just do a strange mess amalgamation of all the routes, not only they decided to remove CRUCIAL information about how it all works, NOT ONLY they removed all the character develop,ment from every character(going as far as removing everything and anything that has to do with main character's character development), not only they decided to underplay servants and ADD ridiculous anime-original material, but Studio DEEN also completely and utterly failed to adapt the stuff they did choose to adapt.


You can't fault Fate/Zero for sticking close to the source material and being faithful.

Topgunuk69 said:
Fai said:
Kirei is part of the church.

Church members in nasuverse are UBER BADASS, magical artifacts, enhanced clothes and etc included.

They(minus Ciel from tsukishime VN) would have no chance at all to survive a servant, but generally have abilities to waste a lot of characters :)

So basically Kirei is a dude who is TRAINED to fight supernatural and natural(minus servants), has stuff in his arsenal to do that and is wearing kevlar.


I do wish people would stop with this (humans being no match for a servant) hyperbole.

There are so many exceptions within Fate/Stay Night with characters less formidable than Kotomine taking on or even killing Servants that it becomes something of a joke.

I mean when the plot calls for it all it takes is magically reinforced fists to take on a Servant, suddenly the Servants who moments before were moving so fast that humans can't perceive them are being beaten up by a regular human.

Luckily in Fate/Zero the rule actually tends to apply.

No.

Its a rule: you can't hurt a servant with conventional weapons. Only with conceptual ones. The characters who did that had powers to do so.

Servants are massively faster, reaching the lower spectrum of hypersonic speed, generally pack quite a lot of power and unless you are VERY haxxed, you won't do anything to them.

The Kirei example is ONE. ONE fight against a servant. A servant which is pretty much weakest and Kirei survived the fight because he is Kirei and because of that servant not knowing stuff like
.

Its not a hyperbole its a fact. The only "humans" who are capable of standing up directly to servant for even a second are Shirou, Ryogi Shiki and Ciel.
Shirou would get stomped by fullpowered servants anyway and was lucky to fight those against whom his fighting style is VERY fitting.
Ciel is said to be able to fight servants on defensive for a while, but is in no way winning.
Ryogi Shiki theoretically should be able to off a servant, but she is not stomping any stronger servant in anyway still and she would need the third persona to fight them.


EDIT: well, this is now officially a proper typemoon thread now, since we went into powerlevel debates.
Modified by Ahenshihael, Nov 20, 2011 5:55 AM
 
Nov 20, 2011 6:31 AM

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MorningGlory said:
@Dusk252
Are you saying that Kirei cannot outrun Saber after killing the two? ...must be a slower runner.Kirei do run very funny after stabbing her lol

About the Kiritsugu's scene,I thought Kiritsugu can use timestop to kill Kayneth .Since killing his master will perish the servant as well..

Kirei can run at 70 km/hour, Saber can outrun SOUND. Do the math.
On the timestop, if you are referring why he didnt use it when Lancer appeared, even with time alter:double accel Kiritsugu would still be much,much slower than Lancer
Modified by dankickyou, Nov 20, 2011 6:36 AM
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Nov 20, 2011 6:32 AM

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Again, there are so many exceptions it's nonsensical.

Kuzuki almost killed Saber, with his bare hands.

It doesn't matter that they were magically reinforced, he was beating up a sword wielding servant that can move as fast as the speed of sound and slice through rock or metal like butter, with his bare fucking hands.

And Shirou kills several Servants, I don't care how powerful the weapon you project is, it shouldn't make up for the difference in strength and speed, if you give a wooden sword to a fully grown man and a real sword to a four year old, the man's going to win regardless, and the difference in strength between humans and servants is even greater than that.

Even blocking a Servant's attack should be impossible for him, every time his swing clashes with a Servant's his arm should be teared from its socket or at the very least the weapon he's holding should be knocked out of his hand, and Servants are so fast there'd be no clash in the first place if not for plot hax.

Rin killed Berserker with her jewels once, had he been any other servant once would've been enough.

I realise that if everything was consistent humans really would be no match for Servants, and in Fate Zero that is the case.

But consistency is not one of the Nasuverse's strong points.
 
Nov 20, 2011 6:45 AM

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epic battle
best episode so far
 
Nov 20, 2011 6:59 AM
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dankickyou said:

Kirei can run at 70 km/hour, Saber can outrun SOUND. Do the math.
On the timestop, if you are referring why he didnt use it when Lancer appeared, even with time alter:double accel Kiritsugu would still be much,much slower than Lancer
okay, Saber can outrun Kirei, but how Saber gonna track him.If he is so easily track, Saber or other servant should had kill him instead.Not to mention there is an sexy assassin beside Kirei to support him to escape.

I think Kirei just felt interesting to let both survive.He was amaze that Iri and the other girl is fighting on their own and not taking order from anyone.He even stab her to make sure she is a human and not a puppet or something.. or maybe he is just a weirdo liking to see blood from human .
Modified by MorningGlory, Nov 20, 2011 7:04 AM
 
Nov 20, 2011 7:08 AM

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Fai said:


EDIT: well, this is now officially a proper typemoon thread now, since we went into powerlevel debates.

I always thought you need to say the magic words: "Shiki can kill Servants" to have a proper Nasuverse power-level thread going.
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Nov 20, 2011 7:08 AM

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Topgunuk69 said:
Again, there are so many exceptions it's nonsensical.

Kuzuki almost killed Saber, with his bare hands.

It doesn't matter that they were magically reinforced, he was beating up a sword wielding servant that can move as fast as the speed of sound and slice through rock or metal like butter, with his bare fucking hands.
It wasn't only his fists that were strenghened, Caster also made him faster, more durable and it's said his fists are able to harm spiritual bodies due to that spell. Not to mention that


dankickyou said:
Fai said:


EDIT: well, this is now officially a proper typemoon thread now, since we went into powerlevel debates.

I always thought you need to say the magic words: "Shiki can kill Servants" to have a proper Nasuverse power-level thread going.
Please not this shit again.
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Nov 20, 2011 7:11 AM

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Topgunuk69 said:
But consistency is not one of the Nasuverse's strong points.
Yep.

It's almost ridiculous trying to explain things with Nasuverse. It is full of plot-hole and exceptions. Urobuchi has already had extremely hard time to fill holes that Nasu created in F/SN. Thus, it is better to just accept some of the questioning concepts or things would get complex.
 
Nov 20, 2011 7:19 AM

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absolutely great episode!!!
ALL the fighting scene's were EPIC AS HELL!!
And listening to the preview, more shit is gonna get down!! XD
 
Nov 20, 2011 7:37 AM

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MorningGlory said:
okay, Saber can outrun Kirei, but how Saber gonna track him.If he is so easily track, Saber or other servant should had kill him instead.Not to mention there is an sexy assassin beside Kirei to support him to escape.
I think Kirei just felt interesting to let both survive.He was amaze that Iri and the other girl is fighting on their own and not taking order from anyone.He even stab her to make sure she is a human and not a puppet or something.. or maybe he is just a weirdo liking to see blood from human .


I think you fail to grasp the nature of Speed of sound. .

KIREI WOULD NOT HAVE TIME to get enough distance to "hide". Kirei, even with his uber good stats running from saber equals to you running from a bullet. And thats if we underestimate Saber.

Topgunuk69 said:
Again, there are so many exceptions it's nonsensical.

Kuzuki almost killed Saber, with his bare hands.

It doesn't matter that they were magically reinforced, he was beating up a sword wielding servant that can move as fast as the speed of sound and slice through rock or metal like butter, with his bare fucking hands.

And Shirou kills several Servants, I don't care how powerful the weapon you project is, it shouldn't make up for the difference in strength and speed, if you give a wooden sword to a fully grown man and a real sword to a four year old, the man's going to win regardless, and the difference in strength between humans and servants is even greater than that.

Even blocking a Servant's attack should be impossible for him, every time his swing clashes with a Servant's his arm should be teared from its socket or at the very least the weapon he's holding should be knocked out of his hand, and Servants are so fast there'd be no clash in the first place if not for plot hax.

Rin killed Berserker with her jewels once, had he been any other servant once would've been enough.

I realise that if everything was consistent humans really would be no match for Servants, and in Fate Zero that is the case.

But consistency is not one of the Nasuverse's strong points.


Kuzuki had speed, strength, durability , etc reinforced alongside his own prowess as an assassin. And he was fighting Saber who was under Shirou's command. Aka the GIMPED Saber who is only superior in luck.

Shirou does not just copy the weapon. Due to his empty nature, devoid of inner emotions, he copies the strength, skill, mastery, stats and technique of the wielder of the weapon. hence why he is perfect match against certain servants, due to being able to match their weapons and fighting style. Shirou's reality marble is pretty much designed to fight stronger opponents, and he still would get wasted against most of servants.

And apparently you are missing the fact that Rin is one of the MOST haxxed mages in the nasuverse in mana output alone and has potential to be even more haxxed.

A superior magi can go against a servant. Unless you are implying that someone like Zelretch who was able to go toe to toe with Crimson moon, would lose against servant.

hence as I said "unless you are REALLY haxxed, you can do nothing to servant".
 
Nov 20, 2011 7:44 AM

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So she walked out before shooting until death to be sure ?
And she died him on the tree and the girl who got attacked was lying down
for rest and when finally he untied the rope, she used the gun to shoot.

VERY WISE.

Don't get how avalon made a blood and didn't block. They can divide avalon to one
and use reiju for one person ?

The thicker version of shielding can make the bullet stronger ?
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Nov 20, 2011 7:47 AM

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HawthorneKitty said:

Maiya had ample time to shoot Kirei also...


And Emiya had ample time to shoot Kayneth. Time wadting is common on thier team.
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Nov 20, 2011 8:05 AM

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dankickyou said:
MorningGlory said:
@Dusk252
Are you saying that Kirei cannot outrun Saber after killing the two? ...must be a slower runner.Kirei do run very funny after stabbing her lol

About the Kiritsugu's scene,I thought Kiritsugu can use timestop to kill Kayneth .Since killing his master will perish the servant as well..

Kirei can run at 70 km/hour, Saber can outrun SOUND. Do the math.
On the timestop, if you are referring why he didnt use it when Lancer appeared, even with time alter:double accel Kiritsugu would still be much,much slower than Lancer


Is that Lancer guy faster than Saber and her speed of sound? I'm asking because the speed of sound isn't really as impressive as you may thing and that magic Kiritsugu used should be able to handle that.

Fai said:
MorningGlory said:
okay, Saber can outrun Kirei, but how Saber gonna track him.If he is so easily track, Saber or other servant should had kill him instead.Not to mention there is an sexy assassin beside Kirei to support him to escape.
I think Kirei just felt interesting to let both survive.He was amaze that Iri and the other girl is fighting on their own and not taking order from anyone.He even stab her to make sure she is a human and not a puppet or something.. or maybe he is just a weirdo liking to see blood from human .


I think you fail to grasp the nature of Speed of sound. .

KIREI WOULD NOT HAVE TIME to get enough distance to "hide". Kirei, even with his uber good stats running from saber equals to you running from a bullet. And thats if we underestimate Saber.


Equals him running for a bullet? Very wrong example there my friend. Bullets are quite a lot faster than sound is. And Kirei is a lot faster than a normal human so yeah the difference in your example is a lot bigger.
I get your point though but still the guy had his own servant with him didn't he? He could have got a piggy ride with the servant or let the servant occupy Saber while he escapes.

Fai said:

Ryogi Shiki theoretically should be able to off a servant, but she is not stomping any stronger servant in anyway still and she would need the third persona to fight them.


EDIT: well, this is now officially a proper typemoon thread now, since we went into powerlevel debates.


Ryogi Shiki. Wait isn't she from a different anime altogether? Are all the staff supposed to be in the same world? Is typermoon a bit like marvel-DC and their universes where superheroes can meat each other?

Damn we need a handbook then because all this is messed-up.

ringoo4 said:
Topgunuk69 said:
But consistency is not one of the Nasuverse's strong points.
Yep.

It's almost ridiculous trying to explain things with Nasuverse. It is full of plot-hole and exceptions. Urobuchi has already had extremely hard time to fill holes that Nasu created in F/SN. Thus, it is better to just accept some of the questioning concepts or things would get complex.


Ah! I see. So it's not just the luck of explanations that makes things a mess? Things are generally messed up?

Modified by Monad, Nov 20, 2011 8:55 AM
 
Nov 20, 2011 8:22 AM

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MrSonic said:



ROFL XD
 
Nov 20, 2011 8:23 AM

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I really hope Sabers arm will be healed soon i want to see her at her full potential not half crippled, tho i have to say that she is still very strong even with one arm.
Fighting within that fog of blood near the end of the fight must have been terrible makes you wonder if all of that is children's blood which just sounds horrible.
And there was even a waterfall of blood.

Shame Caster ran of and didn't get killed he really needs to die who knows what else he is planning.

Emiya fighting is different then expected i thought he would rely less on his weapons and more on his magic those bullets where nice tho.
Lancers master didn't see that one coming and it's also a shame he didn't get killed he is much to arrogant and basically a bastard.
And he pretty much destroyed some of the castle on his way.

Kirei didn't predict that he would be attacked by those girls.
And i have to say that Irisviel was pretty strong tho she still needs some experience in battle if she wants to live till the end.
I also have to say that Kirei was fighting pretty dirty kicking a girl who is lying on the ground and that stabbing a girl who kind fight back.
 
Nov 20, 2011 8:25 AM

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i was hoping Kiritsugu would kill Lancer's master i-dunno-wth-is-his-name :\
but yea, he was saved along with Caster .. too bad i was hoping for someone to be killed sooner .. meh this will level up the action in the upcoming ep :b

i terribly miss Gilgamesh btw :c

and i miss Ryunosuke too lol i thought he would at least have some proper appearance in those recent episodes :\

Great ep & the BGM is <333
 
Nov 20, 2011 8:32 AM

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Monad said:
dankickyou said:
MorningGlory said:
@Dusk252
Are you saying that Kirei cannot outrun Saber after killing the two? ...must be a slower runner.Kirei do run very funny after stabbing her lol

About the Kiritsugu's scene,I thought Kiritsugu can use timestop to kill Kayneth .Since killing his master will perish the servant as well..

Kirei can run at 70 km/hour, Saber can outrun SOUND. Do the math.
On the timestop, if you are referring why he didnt use it when Lancer appeared, even with time alter:double accel Kiritsugu would still be much,much slower than Lancer


Is that Lancer guy faster than Saber and her speed of sound? I'm asking because the speed of sound isn't really as impressive as you may thing and that magic Kiritsugu used should be able to handle that.

Saber is considered SLOWEST servant in the next war. And she still makes sonic booms.

And yes, even with kiritsugu's reality marble, lancer would still be a LOT faster. :)
Monad said:
Equals him running for a bullet? Very wrong example there my friend. Bullets are quite a lot faster than sound is. And Kirei is a lot faster than a normal human so yeah the difference in your example is a lot bigger.
I get your point though but still the guy had his own servant with him didn't he? He could have got a piggy ride with the servant or let the servant occupy Saber while he escapes.

Assassin is...well..sucky servant in terms of combat or stats.

The good it has is his ability and recon potential.

Saber, especially this Saber, would slap Assassin into a pile of goo with one finger, to put it into perspective...


And bullet was just an exacmple without actual mathematical comparison. But when compared to Saber, it still applies.

Saber under shirou was able to go beyond speed of sound. Kiritsugu-Saber is majorly and utterly more stronger in every stat except for Luck.

Monad said:
Ryogi Shiki. Wait isn't she from a different anime altogether. Are all the staff supposed t be in the same world. Is typermoon a bit like marvel-DC and their universes where superheroes can meat each other?

Type moon is a huge multiverse of alternate dimensions with certain characters capable of traveling between them(Grand Mage Zelretch, currently a vampire due to his face-off against Crimson Moon(litterally the moon itself), for example is traveling around the dimensions for pure lulz right now and Rin
.


Ryogi Shiki still exists in this world where Fate events happen. Its just that her story might or might not have happened the way it did in KNK.


All three FSN routes are equally existing parallel dimensions. Not to mention
.

The entire multiverse is held together by multiversal akasha(the whole real world concept of akashic records), the record of existance and throne of heroes, the record of heroic spirits, is part of akasha

There are infinities of Rins, kiritsugu's, etc.(for example there are dimensions where Rin is a catgirl or Ilya and entire cast are magical girls or universe reigned by alien vampire cats)

in fact certain characters in fsn and etc are related to certain characters in other vn/anime stories

This is the official spoiler heavy relationship chart of most of nasuverse characters


to sum up:

ALL FSN routes start with universe similar/identical to fate/zero.

EVERY universe ultimatelly leads to universe similar or identical to the situation depicted in "Angel Notes" short.


Nasuverse contains:
ALL routes of FSN.
Mahoutsukai no Yoru
(angel) Notes
ALL ROUTES OF TSUKIHIME and its sequels.
EVERYTHING in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia
EVERY official Fate fighting game.
DDD(Decoration Disorder Disconnection)

Carnival Phantasm (an unique amalgamation of various universes)


ringoo4 said:

Ah! I see. So it's not just the luck of explanations that makes things a mess? Things are generally messed up?



Most of that has to do with the way Nasu's mind works. And the fac tthat he tends to make up most of interview answers on spot.As long as one doe snot pay too much attention to his interviews and looks only at the works themselves, one can make sense of most of it.
 
Nov 20, 2011 8:40 AM

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Why didn't that one girl shoot him while he was trapped to the tree >_<

GOD WOMEN, I SWEAR.
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Nov 20, 2011 8:42 AM

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StormViruz said:
MrSonic said:



ROFL XD
lal xD he's that awesome :D

Fixes to make the Profile more bearable after "the Modern★Profile★Update★★Rip★Profile★"
 
Nov 20, 2011 9:13 AM
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o.o''
Look like its a long journey just to understand his world..

I think Nasu given up on DDD lol
 
Nov 20, 2011 9:23 AM

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spigot said:
^^ lmao.

I guess the only thing that feels off about this show is that the characters don't get killed. There was absolutely no reason for Kirei to not have decapitated Maiya and Iris there before escaping. Instead, leaving them half-dead seemed totally out of character for the cold blooded killer he is portrayed as.
Of course it would be sad to see any of the badass cast die early too but still they should have given a better reason... like for example Saber could have show up as Kirei was about to stab her or something.


Guess you missed the part where he stabs Irisviel with his claw weapons, and throws her down to die. He was content with just killing the one who caused him the most trouble. But he was unaware Irisviel had Averlon. I though Irisviel had just been killed too.
Coming soon!
 
Nov 20, 2011 9:30 AM

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MorningGlory said:
o.o''
Look like its a long journey just to understand his world..

I think Nasu given up on DDD lol


The better thing is that list is a bit outdated and does not contain newer stuff like F/zero :)
 
Nov 20, 2011 11:08 AM

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Topgunuk69 said:

I do wish people would stop with this (humans being no match for a servant) hyperbole.

I mean when the plot calls for it all it takes is magically reinforced fists to take on a Servant, suddenly the Servants who moments before were moving so fast that humans can't perceive them are being beaten up by a regular human.


But well, it's true humans can't match servants. (Or at least should be, according to explanations given about Hgw)

The part with You-know-who using reinforced fists to beat You-know-who was the point where I almost dropped VN. It was beyond stupid and beyond bad. I don't care how much you hands are reinforced, servants have 10x(random number) more speed, agility and power. That guy should have gotten slashed and killed in a second. Disgusting part, in my opinion worst part of whole FSN VN, which although really good had some flaws.
Modified by nina4life, Nov 20, 2011 11:12 AM
 
Nov 20, 2011 11:09 AM
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I like how Kirei uses Baji Quan ultimate skill to break that tree. I think. It shows he completely mastered Baji Quan.
 
Nov 20, 2011 11:17 AM

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nina4life said:
Topgunuk69 said:

I do wish people would stop with this (humans being no match for a servant) hyperbole.

I mean when the plot calls for it all it takes is magically reinforced fists to take on a Servant, suddenly the Servants who moments before were moving so fast that humans can't perceive them are being beaten up by a regular human.


But well, it's true humans can't match servants. (Or at least should be, according to explanations given about Hgw)

The part with You-know-who using reinforced fists to beat You-know-who was the point where I almost dropped VN. It was beyond stupid and beyond bad. I don't care how much you hands are reinforced, servants have 10x(random number) more speed, agility and power. That guy should have gotten slashed and killed in a second. Disgusting part, in my opinion worst part of whole FSN VN, which although really good had some flaws.


I have to admit that part had me scratching my head a bit, but I can't help but think you are over-reacting here. It's plainly stated that this wouldn't have happened if the servant in question had been aware of this certain characters rather bizarre fighting style. In other words: it was the element of surprise that beat the servant and not any type of skill...if the servant HAD been aware of the person in questions ability it would have been a different outcome.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
Nov 20, 2011 11:29 AM

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But, we're now discussing something not connected to FZ and this episode overall, so I'll just apologize and move on :)
Modified by nina4life, Nov 20, 2011 1:45 PM
 
Nov 20, 2011 11:53 AM

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nina4life said:


True, but that bothered me as hell because it was beyond bad. OK, maybe thinking of dropping really good VN(my 2nd favorite VN as a matter of fact) was a bit of overreacting, but that's how much it annoyed me.
He didn't just beat any no-name servant, he's beaten (true, weaker than usual) Saber, strongest of classes. I don't really care how weak she is, she still had to have huge advantage in that fight. Also, every servant has problems with range of her sword. That guy? Nope, 0 problems whatsoever. It annoyed me.

Strange fighting style is ok as well, but don't u think King Arthur (Arturia :)) has more battle experience than some monk? Yep, it's clearly stated he has experience, but I seriously doubt it's more from a king who's spent most of his life in wars.

But, we're now discussing something not connected to FZ and this episode overall, so I'll just apologize and move on :)


agreed, worst part of the story, i don't think is overreacting because they said earlier that a servant is a supernatural force, that far exceed the humans capabilities, and then, they say that has exceptions, and a idiot teacher from the school ( really, why half of the masters need to be connected with the school ?) beats the servant like nothing. But the mighty shirou can win against him -.-

seriously? i don't want to defend that part of the VN , let's just ignore it, and think that this is a bad dream and take a Route that it's more suitable for the story.
 
Nov 20, 2011 12:47 PM

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Gamaliel said:
nina4life said:


True, but that bothered me as hell because it was beyond bad. OK, maybe thinking of dropping really good VN(my 2nd favorite VN as a matter of fact) was a bit of overreacting, but that's how much it annoyed me.
He didn't just beat any no-name servant, he's beaten (true, weaker than usual) Saber, strongest of classes. I don't really care how weak she is, she still had to have huge advantage in that fight. Also, every servant has problems with range of her sword. That guy? Nope, 0 problems whatsoever. It annoyed me.

Strange fighting style is ok as well, but don't u think King Arthur (Arturia :)) has more battle experience than some monk? Yep, it's clearly stated he has experience, but I seriously doubt it's more from a king who's spent most of his life in wars.

But, we're now discussing something not connected to FZ and this episode overall, so I'll just apologize and move on :)


agreed, worst part of the story, i don't think is overreacting because they said earlier that a servant is a supernatural force, that far exceed the humans capabilities, and then, they say that has exceptions, and a idiot teacher from the school ( really, why half of the masters need to be connected with the school ?) beats the servant like nothing. But the mighty shirou can win against him -.-

seriously? i don't want to defend that part of the VN , let's just ignore it, and think that this is a bad dream and take a Route that it's more suitable for the story.


First of all, what the hell? I went out of my way not to name any names and you guys go and do it. Second of all, Shirou got his ass handed to him by this guy multiple times and never beat him. Really, though, if you look back at the big picture from a storyline perspective it is absolutely necessary for this guy to be this "powerful", otherwise the route wouldn't have an effective antagonist for a while. A necessary sacrifice, if you will.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
Nov 20, 2011 3:19 PM

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I will stay out of this.
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Nov 20, 2011 3:26 PM

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insan3soldiern said:
Gamaliel said:
nina4life said:


True, but that bothered me as hell because it was beyond bad. OK, maybe thinking of dropping really good VN(my 2nd favorite VN as a matter of fact) was a bit of overreacting, but that's how much it annoyed me.
He didn't just beat any no-name servant, he's beaten (true, weaker than usual) Saber, strongest of classes. I don't really care how weak she is, she still had to have huge advantage in that fight. Also, every servant has problems with range of her sword. That guy? Nope, 0 problems whatsoever. It annoyed me.

Strange fighting style is ok as well, but don't u think King Arthur (Arturia :)) has more battle experience than some monk? Yep, it's clearly stated he has experience, but I seriously doubt it's more from a king who's spent most of his life in wars.

But, we're now discussing something not connected to FZ and this episode overall, so I'll just apologize and move on :)


agreed, worst part of the story, i don't think is overreacting because they said earlier that a servant is a supernatural force, that far exceed the humans capabilities, and then, they say that has exceptions, and a idiot teacher from the school ( really, why half of the masters need to be connected with the school ?) beats the servant like nothing. But the mighty shirou can win against him -.-

seriously? i don't want to defend that part of the VN , let's just ignore it, and think that this is a bad dream and take a Route that it's more suitable for the story.


First of all, what the hell? I went out of my way not to name any names and you guys go and do it. Second of all, Shirou got his ass handed to him by this guy multiple times and never beat him. Really, though, if you look back at the big picture from a storyline perspective it is absolutely necessary for this guy to be this "powerful", otherwise the route wouldn't have an effective antagonist for a while. A necessary sacrifice, if you will.



Also should be noted,
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:11 PM

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Sorry but I'll also go offtopic and comment on the VN discussion.

jpem said:
Also should be noted,




Ontopic, I thought this was another great episode as usual. I'm curious to find out more about that woman in Kiritsugu's past.
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:14 PM

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I am so glad Iris didn't die when she got stabbed would have put me in a bad mood for a long time. Overall awesome episode the fights were amazing, ufotable is the best.
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:33 PM

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I'm really enjoying how much they show off that Kirei is one of the executioners, as a fan of Tsukihime this is awesome since he shares the same weapon as Ciel.

Black Keys :D
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:47 PM

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Kiritsugu never stops to amaze me. Truly is a ruthless and intelligent killer machine. He knew what tactic to use and how to use it. And the way he was predicting Kayneth's moves are just brilliant.

I'm getting tired of Caster to be honest, and I hope he will soon get a really painful death that the scene will sadly get censored for us to buy the Blu-Ray release to see how epic he died in pain. I had a feeling that he wouldn't die without his master near his present though.

When I played the Heavens Feel route in Fate\Stay Night visual novel, I really did start to like him, but now. He is one cold motherfucker killer. Partnering him with Assassin class servants suits him well. I read that since his attic in this episode, he gets a lot of hate. Same goes here, my hate for him has rejuvenated. I felt disgust and sad when he stabbed poor Irisvel (best wife ever ;_;)

Saber & Lancer. I thought they would finally finish Caster this episode with blood filled scenes and action in top quality, but no... Caster being a pussy escapes. ;( And the relationship between Kiritsugu and Saber doesn't look good at all. And since Kiritsugu is one bad ass guy that he gives Avalon to Iriesviel (best wife ever ;_;) so everyone could breath in relieve that the worst outcome didn't happen was so good I wanted to kiss Kiritsugu. (No homo.)

Can't wait for the last 5 episodes remaining of the season, before a long agony filled break until April for the last 12 episode to wrap the Fate\Zero anime to an end. Anime of the year, hands down.
 
Nov 20, 2011 4:54 PM

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insan3soldiern said:
First of all, what the hell? I went out of my way not to name any names and you guys go and do it. Second of all, Shirou got his ass handed to him by this guy multiple times and never beat him. Really, though, if you look back at the big picture from a storyline perspective it is absolutely necessary for this guy to be this "powerful", otherwise the route wouldn't have an effective antagonist for a while. A necessary sacrifice, if you will.
On the 4th day of UBW,
 
Nov 20, 2011 5:29 PM

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Another great episode. Avalon's power really did help Irisviel.
 
Nov 20, 2011 5:45 PM

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MomoDestro said:
Another great episode. Avalon's power really did help Irisviel.


Avalon is too OP :3
 
Nov 20, 2011 7:22 PM

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OMG!!! F/Z is ranked 15!!!
 
Nov 20, 2011 7:26 PM

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jpem said:
insan3soldiern said:
Gamaliel said:
nina4life said:


True, but that bothered me as hell because it was beyond bad. OK, maybe thinking of dropping really good VN(my 2nd favorite VN as a matter of fact) was a bit of overreacting, but that's how much it annoyed me.
He didn't just beat any no-name servant, he's beaten (true, weaker than usual) Saber, strongest of classes. I don't really care how weak she is, she still had to have huge advantage in that fight. Also, every servant has problems with range of her sword. That guy? Nope, 0 problems whatsoever. It annoyed me.

Strange fighting style is ok as well, but don't u think King Arthur (Arturia :)) has more battle experience than some monk? Yep, it's clearly stated he has experience, but I seriously doubt it's more from a king who's spent most of his life in wars.

But, we're now discussing something not connected to FZ and this episode overall, so I'll just apologize and move on :)


agreed, worst part of the story, i don't think is overreacting because they said earlier that a servant is a supernatural force, that far exceed the humans capabilities, and then, they say that has exceptions, and a idiot teacher from the school ( really, why half of the masters need to be connected with the school ?) beats the servant like nothing. But the mighty shirou can win against him -.-

seriously? i don't want to defend that part of the VN , let's just ignore it, and think that this is a bad dream and take a Route that it's more suitable for the story.


First of all, what the hell? I went out of my way not to name any names and you guys go and do it. Second of all, Shirou got his ass handed to him by this guy multiple times and never beat him. Really, though, if you look back at the big picture from a storyline perspective it is absolutely necessary for this guy to be this "powerful", otherwise the route wouldn't have an effective antagonist for a while. A necessary sacrifice, if you will.



Also should be noted,


That unusual fighting style bit didn't fly with me either, Saber has a sword, it doesn't matter if she can't quite tell where the blows are coming from, she could slice him in half before he's even within reach.
 
Nov 20, 2011 7:34 PM
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MrSonic said:



I got the weirdest boner when she got stabbed.
 
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