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Poll: Kara no Kyoukai: Tsuukaku Zanryuu Episode 1 Discussion


Mar 11, 2018 7:16 AM
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good source material. Bad direction. I thought it feels like some episodes of Fate/Zero. Bloody. A lot of gratuitous crying and moaning by the murder victims, to make the whole thing more sensational or terrifying. Contrarily I don't feel terrified at all.

Kara no Kyoukai is about Kokuto scoring girls.
 
May 12, 2018 12:29 PM

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Now you tell me how i'm supposed to respect Mikiya when he saves a rapist that has been raping and mistreating a poor girl for half a year and not only her who knows how many other girls ? i just lost all faith in that sack of shit after that i never really liked him and that just cemented what a low life form he is, i'm not sure how i'm supposed to go on for another 4 movies watching this sack of shit.


Truly, comparisons between fellow humans are what turn out to be the most infuriating.
 
May 27, 2018 12:55 PM

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I like the series of the short movies, even though I never read the novels it's based on.

My main issue though with this one, is that they're trying to say that Fujino Asagami is "evil and a rampaging beast", which is wrong and false.

She was drugged, abducted, gang-raped and they even attemped to murder her., and well, she killed them first. Legally, I think that is not considered murder what she did., when someone is about to murder you and you manage to kill them first that is.

Was I supposed to feel sorry or empathy for the perpetretors? Because I don't, they had it coming ten times over. And apparently her parents fail to have conversations with her every day to find out what is going on with her, she's just a teenager after all. If she cannot talk or share things with her parents, to whom can she talk? They just presumed her as guilty and they're doing what 99% characters are doing the whole movie, misjudging her,. and think that she was just a slut and deserved to be gang-rapped.

If she was indeed "evil and a rampaging beast", she'd kill ANYBODY, RAMDOMLY, children, womem, men, elderly, etc., etc. etc. The guy we see her chasing is one of her rapists, probably one of the rare few who managed to get out of the place still alive, not a RANDOM INNOCENT person she just hapened to bump into., but a GUILTY one.

I hate it that they seem to make rape, not a serious crime, a light crime. Rape is okay,, gang rape is okay but not murder. But like I said, legally speaking, her "murders" at the beginning is not a murder because they also tried to kill her at some point, so it's self-defense.. Victims of rape tend to get in deep depression, can even commit suicide. It's generally hard to talk about it because others can think they deserved to be raped, that the're sluts asking for it, even the authorities (cops, judges, lawyers) can think and behave like this with victims of rape, making reporting rapes harder on victims.

The entire movie the message I get is that Fujino Asagami is a slut who deserved it, heck even her parents shocked to find how to find how much of a slut she is they want her dead. I'm so pissed off the entire movie and at 99% of the characters for being 99999999999% morons, and I wonder how deranged the author of the novel is.
 
Sep 25, 2018 12:11 AM

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I liked this one better than the first two. Fujino is a likable character. I was glad that she survived. The rape scenes were very well done IMO.

I have a couple of questions about what happened:

1. Fujino killed several people. Were they all part of the rape gang, or were there also "innocent" people among her victims?

2. What was Fujino's relationship with Keita and his gang? Apparently they raped her multiple times over the several months. Did they just grab her off the street every time? And did she never resist nor report it? The story seems strange to me.

kalinime said:
Better than the first two movies. Too damn bad the one rapist got away, I'm sure they didn't even turn him into the cops. Wonder how many more women he'll rape before something final happens to him.
Altay545 said:
Now you tell me how i'm supposed to respect Mikiya when he saves a rapist that has been raping and mistreating a poor girl for half a year and not only her who knows how many other girls ? i just lost all faith in that sack of shit after that i never really liked him and that just cemented what a low life form he is, i'm not sure how i'm supposed to go on for another 4 movies watching this sack of shit.

I kind of agree with this criticism. I lost a lot of respect for Kokutou Mikiya after seeing him protect Keita. This tells me that Kokutou is a "nice guy" but NOT a "good guy". He doesn't seem to have any values nor try to achieve anything. Actually, his ONLY characteristic appears to be that he is "nice" to everyone - even when being nice causes harm in the long run. This makes him both unlikable and boring as a character.

Kokutou might be even worse than Emiya Shirou. Emiya is a pretty awful MC already, being dumb as cow dung, but at least Emiya seems to have values and tries to do good. Kokutou is equally stupid but doesn't even try to achieve anything.

Nothingness39 said:
My main issue though with this one, is that they're trying to say that Fujino Asagami is "evil and a rampaging beast", which is wrong and false.

She was drugged, abducted, gang-raped and they even attemped to murder her., and well, she killed them first. Legally, I think that is not considered murder what she did., when someone is about to murder you and you manage to kill them first that is.

I agree with these points. Assuming that all the people she killed were part of the rape gang (which I am not sure of), IMO all her killings were perfectly justified and made the world a better place.

A normal rape as a heinous enough crime. What Keita-tachi did was way worse. Not only did they repeatedly rape her, but he makes it clear that they tried to hurt her as much as possible - oh, and by the way, they also tried to murder her. I think it should be clear to everyone that Keita-tachi are rabid beasts that need to be removed, not only for revenge or justice, but even just to make the world safer. Protecting Keita is a crime because it makes the world a worse place. Kokutou is shit.
 
Sep 25, 2018 1:15 AM

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SpectrumDT said:
I liked this one better than the first two. Fujino is a likable character. I was glad that she survived. The rape scenes were very well done IMO.

I have a couple of questions about what happened:

1. Fujino killed several people. Were they all part of the rape gang, or were there also "innocent" people among her victims?

2. What was Fujino's relationship with Keita and his gang? Apparently they raped her multiple times over the several months. Did they just grab her off the street every time? And did she never resist nor report it? The story seems strange to me.


1.- Yes she was only hunting down the people from the gang it's not like she was some deranged killer she just wanted revenge after finally feeling something, she felt like she was dead inside since she had always never felt anything and then when she started having all that pain she pretty much snapped she also got her powers and with her crazed state of mind i guess she equated her suffering to all the things that had happened to her.

2.-They probably took her information when they raped her the first time and then kept on pestering her ... well couple of friends of mine are in the force and i've heard a couple of stories like this but it's really not pretty stuff man don't know if you wanna know about it, stuff like this actually happens they usually grab a girl and then they tape them to use as blackmail the girl of course gets scared and starts doing what the people ask of them, as i said it's easy to get their address and phone number and they just order them to do stuff, also it's sometimes pretty easy to just stake them out and know what route she takes back from work and the like, all pretty disgusting stuff it's really not that hard for stuff like this to happen, you don't really want to know how many girls go through stuff like that i mean it's not some insane number but the numbers that are there are already stuff from nightmares.

I kind of agree with this criticism. I lost a lot of respect for Kokutou Mikiya after seeing him protect Keita. This tells me that Kokutou is a "nice guy" but NOT a "good guy". He doesn't seem to have any values nor try to achieve anything. Actually, his ONLY characteristic appears to be that he is "nice" to everyone - even when being nice causes harm in the long run. This makes him both unlikable and boring as a character.

Kokutou might be even worse than Emiya Shirou. Emiya is a pretty awful MC already, being dumb as cow dung, but at least Emiya seems to have values and tries to do good. Kokutou is equally stupid but doesn't even try to achieve anything.


Yep pretty much this is the difference between a dumbass and someone with morals, he does what he thinks is "right" cuz KiLlinG Is BaD.... i mean the whole thing is very stupid but whatever man concepts about imaginary things such as "good" and "bad" are always pretty stupid in these types of series that try to take themselves too seriously and the "good" guys always need to do the "right" thing just retarded.

And yes just like you stated at the end it doesn't take a genius to understand that what she did was justified and that the message the movie gave is pretty shallow, had they been on her side from the beginning they could have probably noticed her problem faster and that would have been a much better movie hunting all that trash after all that they did, but nope killing is bad hence she must be bad, what they raped you ? repeatedly? made your already sad existence even worse? well that's already in the past and what you're trying to do is bad so fuck you.

People are surely gonna go with the strawman "well does that mean we should all just kill whoever offends us" and anyone that thinks like that is missing the point what these guys did is pure evil not just a "bad" thing they made their choice of repeatedly inflicting pain on this girl and then even when sack of shit Mikiya captures them they spout shit about what they did and expect him to save them (and he actually fucking does it my god ...) they don't really deserve to live after that they're not humans worth saving they're actively making the world an even bigger shit hole and that poor girl is justified in her revenge.


Truly, comparisons between fellow humans are what turn out to be the most infuriating.
 
Sep 25, 2018 1:07 PM

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Altay545 said:
SpectrumDT said:
I liked this one better than the first two. Fujino is a likable character. I was glad that she survived. The rape scenes were very well done IMO.

I have a couple of questions about what happened:

1. Fujino killed several people. Were they all part of the rape gang, or were there also "innocent" people among her victims?

2. What was Fujino's relationship with Keita and his gang? Apparently they raped her multiple times over the several months. Did they just grab her off the street every time? And did she never resist nor report it? The story seems strange to me.


1.- Yes she was only hunting down the people from the gang it's not like she was some deranged killer she just wanted revenge after finally feeling something, she felt like she was dead inside since she had always never felt anything and then when she started having all that pain she pretty much snapped she also got her powers and with her crazed state of mind i guess she equated her suffering to all the things that had happened to her.

2.-They probably took her information when they raped her the first time and then kept on pestering her ... well couple of friends of mine are in the force and i've heard a couple of stories like this but it's really not pretty stuff man don't know if you wanna know about it, stuff like this actually happens they usually grab a girl and then they tape them to use as blackmail the girl of course gets scared and starts doing what the people ask of them, as i said it's easy to get their address and phone number and they just order them to do stuff, also it's sometimes pretty easy to just stake them out and know what route she takes back from work and the like, all pretty disgusting stuff it's really not that hard for stuff like this to happen, you don't really want to know how many girls go through stuff like that i mean it's not some insane number but the numbers that are there are already stuff from nightmares.

All right. Thanks.

Altay545 said:
I kind of agree with this criticism. I lost a lot of respect for Kokutou Mikiya after seeing him protect Keita. This tells me that Kokutou is a "nice guy" but NOT a "good guy". He doesn't seem to have any values nor try to achieve anything. Actually, his ONLY characteristic appears to be that he is "nice" to everyone - even when being nice causes harm in the long run. This makes him both unlikable and boring as a character.

Kokutou might be even worse than Emiya Shirou. Emiya is a pretty awful MC already, being dumb as cow dung, but at least Emiya seems to have values and tries to do good. Kokutou is equally stupid but doesn't even try to achieve anything.


Yep pretty much this is the difference between a dumbass and someone with morals, he does what he thinks is "right" cuz KiLlinG Is BaD.... i mean the whole thing is very stupid but whatever man concepts about imaginary things such as "good" and "bad" are always pretty stupid in these types of series that try to take themselves too seriously and the "good" guys always need to do the "right" thing just retarded.

And yes just like you stated at the end it doesn't take a genius to understand that what she did was justified and that the message the movie gave is pretty shallow, had they been on her side from the beginning they could have probably noticed her problem faster and that would have been a much better movie hunting all that trash after all that they did, but nope killing is bad hence she must be bad, what they raped you ? repeatedly? made your already sad existence even worse? well that's already in the past and what you're trying to do is bad so fuck you.

People are surely gonna go with the strawman "well does that mean we should all just kill whoever offends us" and anyone that thinks like that is missing the point what these guys did is pure evil not just a "bad" thing they made their choice of repeatedly inflicting pain on this girl and then even when sack of shit Mikiya captures them they spout shit about what they did and expect him to save them (and he actually fucking does it my god ...) they don't really deserve to live after that they're not humans worth saving they're actively making the world an even bigger shit hole and that poor girl is justified in her revenge.

Yeah, I agree with most of this.

My impression is that Nasu's attempts to grapple with ethics are generally pretentious, pandering and stupid. Look at how Fate/Zero built up
as a ridiculously contrived strawman in a feeble attempt to discredit utilitarianism - again, in favour of sentimentality and "being nice".
 
Dec 2, 2018 5:22 AM

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Fujino never felt pain...In the end Shiki forgives Fujino.
 
Dec 26, 2018 1:11 PM

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It bothers me that piece of shit Keita got away.
 
Jan 3, 10:21 PM

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What absolute hot garbage. Nothing infuriates me more than white knighting. Kokutou is one of the most infuriating retards I've ever come across and for the rapist to get away is disgusting. White knighting for the sake of white knighting is poor writing expected from mindless drivel. After last episode actually being good I had high hopes for this one only to be left severely disappointed.

The childish writing is laughable but expected from Type Moon. It goes to show that Tsukihime was the only good thing they've ever made (and even then the VN was surpassed by a far superior manga adaptation). I'll keep watching the rest since too late to turn back but still. At least its not as bad as Fate. That's the only positive I can take from this.
 
Jan 4, 2:51 AM

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NovaLord said:
The childish writing is laughable but expected from Type Moon. It goes to show that Tsukihime was the only good thing they've ever made (and even then the VN was surpassed by a far superior manga adaptation).

actually, tsukihime manga is extremely boring shit compared to the VN, i started reading it on january of last year and still can't get past chapter 35.
 
Jan 6, 3:10 AM

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Shayon said:

actually, tsukihime manga is extremely boring shit compared to the VN, i started reading it on january of last year and still can't get past chapter 35.


The problem with the VN is the characters are just flat. Shiki is nonexistent. He's basically the readers self insert and has nothing going for him. I don't even want to call him a character.
The manga develops the characters (at least the ones it covers) far better than the VN and actually gives them more depth than the little that is provided in the VN. The VN isn't bad, I very much like it, but its an amateur work that needs to be polished. The manga does just that and far surpasses the VN. Even type moon admitted the manga surpassed the VN. From a writing stand point and an artistic stand point its easy to see.
 
Jan 6, 4:59 AM

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NovaLord said:
The problem with the VN is the characters are just flat. Shiki is nonexistent. He's basically the readers self insert and has nothing going for him. I don't even want to call him a character.
The manga develops the characters (at least the ones it covers) far better than the VN and actually gives them more depth than the little that is provided in the VN. The VN isn't bad, I very much like it, but its an amateur work that needs to be polished. The manga does just that and far surpasses the VN. Even type moon admitted the manga surpassed the VN. From a writing stand point and an artistic stand point its easy to see.

shiki may not be such a great mc, but calling him nonexistent is going too far i think
he has his own backstory, thoughts, and struggles throughout the story

i won't argue about the manga further since i haven't finished it, but from what i've read so far, it hasn't done anything substantial to improve on the existing characters. if it ends up doing that down the line, then all the better
Modified by Shayon, Jan 6, 5:03 AM
 
Jan 6, 6:52 PM

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Shayon said:

shiki may not be such a great mc, but calling him nonexistent is going too far i think
he has his own backstory, thoughts, and struggles throughout the story

i won't argue about the manga further since i haven't finished it, but from what i've read so far, it hasn't done anything substantial to improve on the existing characters. if it ends up doing that down the line, then all the better

In the VN that's basically what he is. Note how he never really appears talking alongside other characters, instead the story is told through his eyes as if the reader is Shiki. Don't want to go into spoilers but, yes he gets a background but that background is more to develop his past and how he got his eyes. It doesn't really ground him as a character and the Shiki in the present story is malleable so the reader can easily self insert. He was purposely designed like that. Yes he's not perfect and does go through some crazy swings but that doesn't really mean he can't be a self insert. If anything it doubles on the self insertion because now the reader can watch Shiki face his own troubles.

On the manga though as we see Shiki's actions and developed thought processes its easy to see him as his own character. Even Ciel despite how little screentime she gets in the manga ends up more developed and more of a concrete character than she is in the VN. Well this is how I see it and if you see it different then that's perfectly fine. I still think the VN is good anyways.
 
Jul 10, 1:24 AM
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oww its reminding me to matou sakura,, hehe the mc and the black haired girl is very similar,,
and that power is very good,, hmm that girl is very pshyco killing with brutal way, yeah she can feel the pain even she raped many time by that gang but still not feel ,, hehe she finally feel pain after her belly feel some pain and blame it to that gang but the true thats just her desease, sho she kill people for that reason, , and the gore is very good,
ufotable give the best for gore thing,,
look like the story run after movie 2-3-1 i realize from shiki who losing her hand and change it with imitation hand ,,
the sory is very interesting to figure what the reason for the girl why she killing people with brutal way,,
and shiki after that figure that she must kill the girl,, but look like shiki still has human side and fail to kill the girl,, and save the girl and said that she already kill her desease,,
hmm the story is quite confusing , but still enjoyable for me,,
 
Jul 10, 1:27 AM
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NovaLord said:
Shayon said:

shiki may not be such a great mc, but calling him nonexistent is going too far i think
he has his own backstory, thoughts, and struggles throughout the story

i won't argue about the manga further since i haven't finished it, but from what i've read so far, it hasn't done anything substantial to improve on the existing characters. if it ends up doing that down the line, then all the better

In the VN that's basically what he is. Note how he never really appears talking alongside other characters, instead the story is told through his eyes as if the reader is Shiki. Don't want to go into spoilers but, yes he gets a background but that background is more to develop his past and how he got his eyes. It doesn't really ground him as a character and the Shiki in the present story is malleable so the reader can easily self insert. He was purposely designed like that. Yes he's not perfect and does go through some crazy swings but that doesn't really mean he can't be a self insert. If anything it doubles on the self insertion because now the reader can watch Shiki face his own troubles.

On the manga though as we see Shiki's actions and developed thought processes its easy to see him as his own character. Even Ciel despite how little screentime she gets in the manga ends up more developed and more of a concrete character than she is in the VN. Well this is how I see it and if you see it different then that's perfectly fine. I still think the VN is good anyways.
hmm you said he? who are u talking about.. kokutou?
 
Jul 10, 2:28 AM

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x2kill4 said:
NovaLord said:

In the VN that's basically what he is. Note how he never really appears talking alongside other characters, instead the story is told through his eyes as if the reader is Shiki. Don't want to go into spoilers but, yes he gets a background but that background is more to develop his past and how he got his eyes. It doesn't really ground him as a character and the Shiki in the present story is malleable so the reader can easily self insert. He was purposely designed like that. Yes he's not perfect and does go through some crazy swings but that doesn't really mean he can't be a self insert. If anything it doubles on the self insertion because now the reader can watch Shiki face his own troubles.

On the manga though as we see Shiki's actions and developed thought processes its easy to see him as his own character. Even Ciel despite how little screentime she gets in the manga ends up more developed and more of a concrete character than she is in the VN. Well this is how I see it and if you see it different then that's perfectly fine. I still think the VN is good anyways.
hmm you said he? who are u talking about.. kokutou?

Tohno Shiki from Tsukihime, he's a different character from Kara no Kyoukai's Shiki
 
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