The Real Ending to Code Geass

Storktrooper said:
The last scene already shows you if he's alive or nah.

if you don't really recall what happened, click on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdlSoTWNlY4&feature=youtu.be&t=440

Lelouch is the one driving the cart, because right after you get a close-up on the driver whose face is conveniently hidden, it then goes to the scene where C.C. says "I said that Geass was the Power of the King which would condemn you to a life of solitude. Heh. I think maybe that's not quite correct. Right, Lelouch?" it's too much of a coincidence that she would say that right after the close-up with the driver, and then look up like as if she were directing the question at him. If the driver wasn't of any importance at all, then what's the point in even having a close-up of him in the first place? When the camera panned horizontally to the cart they could've totally skipped to C.C.'s scene, instead of wasting time on a close-up of some random dude. Plus i'm pretty sure C.C. wouldn't talk about geass and Lelouch so openly when there is someone she doesn't know right in front of her.

boom.

Galaxy__ said:


its an open end. everybody can think what he wants. stop discussing about it jesus christ. your point was stated 1000000 by people. if you want to point something out, find something new.

Galaxy__ said:


its an open end. everybody can think what he wants. stop discussing about it jesus christ. your point was stated 1000000 by people. if you want to point something out, find something new.

HTKINGOFANIMES said:
Nope. I have had enough of this seeing these pointless conservations. Lelouch is alive, even if he is alive as R.R it doesn't matter anymore, he is alive to the people who believe he is the good guy and he is dead to the people who believe he is the bad guy. Thats all there is to it and i just created a account to post on this thread that i for one believe he is alive. I mean why does everyone think he is the bad guy. What the hell did he did wrong. Why do you all hate him so much. There must be a reason. What is it? I want to know please tell me. I request you all to tell me what he did wrong. A man who lost everything his mother, his father, his sister, his honor, his friends.EVERYTHING!!!!!!!. And yet you people still hate him i don't know.And you might think its because He killed Princess Euphemia but it was not his fault at all! i mean his Geass went out of control, so why do you people put all the blame on him and for your information, he couldn't just sit there while Princess Euphemia destroyed all of Japanese and besides even if he couldn't bring himself to kill her then someone else would have surely done it because everyone would have thought that she is insane. Also the people or representatives would not just wait for them to die they would have surely ordered her assination.
Well i have stated enough and i know most of you won't agree with me but thats fine. I know in my heart that Lelouch is alive. You say whatever you want to.
Here is some evidence too which i gathered from all over the Internet and you should know that liking Lelouch i have searched very hard on the Internet since i wanted to not accept the fact that he is dead. All of these points are exceptionally true but if you don't want to believe me then go ahead. I for one know that he is alive:
The most obvious reason would be CC calling to Lelouch in the closing scene of the episode. As we can assume CC to be still sane, she must be talking to someone, and that someone would most probably be the driver of the cart: Lelouch would have to be alive.

Second, however, and this is where the others have thought things through, Lelouch is alive because he got his dad's code. He beckoned the World of C to lend him its powers, and he took Charles's code before Charles passed on. The reason why Lelouch still has his Geass is because he didn't take the Code from the same person who gave him his Geass: he took his Geass from CC, and he took his Code from Charles. Thus, he now possesses both immortality and a Geass. This is also a reason that the title is Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion.

To further corroborate this, however, remember that when Nunnally held Lelouch's hand he transferred his memories to her. CC also did it when Lelouch touched her accidentally back then, so it could be assumed that people with Codes are indeliberate telepaths. This leaves us with both immortals traversing the world for the rest of eternity.

[...]

Additional evidences:

Charles grabbed Lelouch with his right hand, which had the Geass sigil.
Lelouch needed the fully evolved Geass to transfer a code.
The code doesn't appear to activate until someone dies. Hence, why C.C. was wounded when she first inherited her code. Same happened with Charles in the World of C.
When Lelouch touched Nunnally, Nunnally got a flash of his memories. This ONLY happens when a high potential Geass user touches someone with the fully evolved Geass.
The title of the series is "R2″, which is similar to how "C.C" is pronounced. So Lelouch would be "R.R." which is Engrish (I presume) for L.L., Lelouch Lamprouge.
When C.C. is talking on the wagon, she says "the power of Geass brings loneliness…that's not quite right is it, Lelouch?" and nods her head in the direction of the wagon driver.
[Furthermore,] Orange knew of Lelouch's and Suzaku's plan and helped them out by ordering his men not to fire on Zero, he even smiled when Zero (Suzaku) jumped on his shoulder.

Now would Orange, a man who devoted himself entirely to Lelouche and threw away everything without a second thought be OK with a plan where the sole person he wants to protect in life is actually killed? The answer to that is NO, not even if Lelouch ordered him to accept the plan: he would not go along with it and would protect him with his life. There is only one way that Orange would be OK with a plan like that and that's if he knew about Lelouch's immortality, which I assume he did as he worked with V.V. in the Geass research base. Orange was OK with this plan as he knew Lelouch would come to no harm and would be able to start a new peaceful life with the woman he loves in a world which he himself had made peaceful.

Even at the end, we see Orange on his orange plantation, completely content with the way things have panned out, he definitely could not be that happy had Lelouch actually died.
So thats it. Hate me if you want but i believe in Lelouch.

Lethargy said:
An entertaining conspiracy theory, but honestly, it seemed like they wanted Lelouch's survival to be open-ended.

Fundog said:


Well at least you get it. I said something earlier in this thread. I like how the naysayers who don't even like CG have to waste their time quoting the 'author's statement.

There are a few other points.

1) Lelouch vowed to make C.C. feel loved. C.C. wouldn't feel loved if Lelouch deserted her for the sake of the Zero's Requiem (which was his personal way to atone and create a world for Nunally). Their bond is deeper than what most people realise. C.C. is the only one he can't lie to (using Geass or otherwise) and they seem to have an understanding. C.C told him twice that she was the only one on his side, and now he's reciprocating that. He called himself a warlock to her witch, the terms are used for Code bearers. That was some easily identifiable foreshadowing. Notice how during the ZR, C.C is back to wearing her prisoner outfit. That symbolises that she wasn't free. However, at the end, she's wearing 'normal' clothing, because her mind and spirit are finally free (as well as her burden) since she is finally elated.

C.C asks Lelouch whether he hates her for 'cheating him out of his own life' and 'changing his destiny'. This destiny refers to the fact that he has to abide by the contract to make her feel loved (out of his own volition) and Lelouch responds by saying all the choices that he made were his alone. C.C then smiles, knowing that she finally found the one she's looking for, accepting her for who she is, nothing more or less (and not a guy who would kill himself and abandon her or something like Mao, which is what most people seem to think LOL).

Lelouch even mentioned to Kaguya that he cannot commit to a 'marriage' with a woman because he signed a pact with the Devil (C.C). That shows his devotion to her, above all others (including his 'romantic feelings' towards Shirley).

2) The paper crane. It's what Nunnally gave her. If she wanted to be reminded of Lelouch, she would get his mask, which is more symbolic of their time together. That's because the crane isn't a token for her, it's for Lelouch. It's to remember the person that he sacrificed everything for, so that she could have a better life. When Lelouch and Nunally were discussing the Damocles and its potential impact on peace, Lelouch monologued that they 'had the same idea' and that he was ready to let her go. That means he no longer needs to watch over her since she's an independent woman now. He's done enough for her.

3) Jeremiah plowing the fields in an orange farm...has the exact same landscape as the one C.C's cart is travelling in. At the end of that scene, Jeremiah even smiles in a certain direction. Now, why would he do that? Cos he saw Lelouch approaching.

4) The name of the actual series. What people do not realise is that the first season is simply called 'Code Geass'. There is no RI bullshit in the name. The 2nd season is called 'Code Geass R2'. Why R2? Well, enough people have explained that already. As for Code Geass, why would it be called that? No one person (prior to Lelouch) has ever been in possession of both powers at the same time.

5) C.C reiterates in the series that the power of the King condemns you to a life of solitude, yet corrects herself in the final scene. Why? It's because the only way to escape the cycle is to find a similar companion and they both have found one another.

6) Lelouch covering his face at the end. He is literally the only person who needs to cover himself up in this 'world with no hatred'. So 'Lelouch vi Brittania' is dead, he can never return, similar to how Suzaku is 'dead', existing only as Zero. You really think Lelouch isn't the slightly bit vengeful at Suzaku for interfering in his schemes and outright betraying him at the end of the first series? He's just showing Suzaku what he had to go through and to shut his hypocritical mouth up.

7) C.C wouldn't settle for another man, not in this age where most people live in cities. The higherups are aware of her existence and would persecute and execute her as they usually did. And she has severe trust issues (even more so in a scenario where Lelouch does abandon her for his personal gain of atonement) so she wouldn't go with a random stranger on a cart. Lelouch, C.C and Jeremiah are condemned to living away from people 'in solitude' for eternity (well not Jeremiah cos he'll die) but they won't be lonely because they'll have each other.

These are just a few points that I came up with after analyzing the series. And people who understand the entertainment industry can clearly tell that the directors only declared Lelouch dead so people would shut up about a 'R3' (which doesn't make sense cos there's only R2, no R1).

Windfall said:

Going by the interview with the author it's kind of clear that his intention was actually for it to be a closed ending with Lelouch dying.

Fundog said:
His intention is indeed clear, he doesn't want people to ask for a third season, because he feels satisfied with how it ended. There is nothing more to be told of Lelouch's story. His travels with C.C for eternity do not fit with CG's genre of 'mech'. It'll be a slice of life or something, almost identical to Spice and Wolf. Hence, he insists that Lelouch is dead and includes OVAs, songs picture dramas and other non-canon material to highlight his point. Furthermore, the result of what he said (intentional or otherwise) is that it rouses debates such as the one in this thread. It augments the longevity of the series. It's been nine years since the conclusion of the series and still, I see countless debates about Lelouch's fate on the net. While many more popular anime will have ceased discussion, CG will still be discussed for its ending, even those who repeat the same arguments over and over again.

Now imagine if the author outright said 'Lelouch is alive. Due to technical issues, we failed to explicitly show Lelouch receiving the Code and blah blah blah.' I assure you most people will have forgotten about it because the fanbase will rest easy knowing that while Lelouch does have to atone, C.C finally got her wish to be loved.

It's similar to how Illidan in Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne supposedly died according to the cinematic, then Blizzard is like 'we ran out of time with that, sorry'.

Windfall said:

I personally find it funny how the author explicitly tells us his intention in a interview and yet people still come up with some exotic interpretations or ulterior motives that contradicts it. If anything, I'd say the interview indicates that Lelouch dying is something they've been considering since the beginning, which goes against the idea that it was a last moment decision due to the lack of time or due to it being a convenient way to avoid fans from asking for a third season. Perhaps he actually thought making up a bunch of details to tell a convincing lie in a interview was easier than simply saying that the story is over, that's a possibility, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I honestly can't see how this interview helped fuel the discussion at all. Theoretically it should put an end to it as it was the definitive answer to this debate, but his stance was largely disregarded among those who believes that Lelouch being alive is a more adequate ending. Considering this sentiment that word of god isn't necessarily canon, I'd say the outcome would be the same even if the interview was never done.

Fundog said:
That doesn't contradict what I said at all, I said the author was satisfied with the series ending. Naturally, he wouldn't want a 3rd season and yes of course he planned the ending at the start, I never denied that. And yeah that's how people work in general, now only diehard fans ask for a 3rd season. I say his plan was a success.

Well, it clearly has prolonged the discussion. Here we are, discussing it. It's happening on tons of internet boards, including Youtube since 2007. I doubt it will stop anytime soon. Not many series get anywhere near that degree of debate. It promotes interests in the series, in general. People new to the series and anime in general will watch it. Buy their Blurays just to see that fake ending (kinda hilarious). As a result, they release the Akito the Exiled series.

It's not that word of god is disregarded, it is taking into account his motives at the time. Like I said, if he said that Lelouch was alive, people would stop debating about it straight away and go into Doujunshi mode.

Windfall said:

According to you his intention of saying that Lelouch is dead in a interview was just to stop fans for asking for a third season and fueling a debate, but the interview doesn't transmit that at all. You're talking as if Lelouch being dead was some sort of polemical statement when it wasn't, at no point whether Lelouch was dead or alive was even in question during the interview, they treated it as something that's widely known and accepted and were just talking about it. The interview was published in a magazine shortly after the anime was over, a week or two if I'm not mistaken, so it's actually very likely that the author wasn't even aware about the fanon that contradicted his intention.

The second season was conclusive enough and it's been almost 8 years since it ended, so it would have been more surprising if people were still constantly asking for a third season. There was quite a bit of rumors and fans asking for it even a few years after it was done though.

I know it's a prolonged discussion and at no point I denied that, I argued that the word of god didn't fuel the debate. You're actually the first person I've seen that's bringing up some ulterior motive about the author stance in the interview, if that was something people were taking into consideration then I'm certain that they would have been vocal about it. The most common counter argument towards the interview seems to be that only what's shown in the source material that matters, which backs up what I said, the word of god was pretty much disregarded. If it was accepted as canon then we would likely see people arguing that the interpretation of a work doesn't have to be limited to the authors intention instead of arguing that the source material points towards their theory.

Fundog said:
This is why I dislike talking about the interviews and sticking with the source material, for the reasons that I've stated. It's quite meaningless to discuss about non-canon material such as these external 'sources'.

Fundog said:
Of course, they didn't remotely imply that there was a chance that Lelouch's survival can be questioned, because that's what drives us to debate over this.

Fundog said:
If there were any subtle implications that Lelouch may have survived and that it was up to interpretation, people would be asking for a third season (to a much greater extent than what still occurs on the internet).

Fundog said:
Directors etc. do not attend an interview just to verify something that is already accepted, they do it to clarify something.

Fundog said:
Of course, he would've known about the theories that popped up shortly after the anime ended. That happens to every show that ends, especially one which has such an open ending. Tell me something, if the author did not intend for there to be any debate whatsoever regarding Lelouch's survival, why did he mask the identity of the cart driver? Why call the series Code Geass, which should have no meaning by itself?

Fundog said:
People are still asking for a third season actually. Yet, all we got was Akito the Exiled and guess what, it's quite popular because people want to see more of Lelouch and C.C. The Japanese kids probably paid for the full series in hopes that they would appear in the final episode. Did they get it? Nope. Did Sunrise get a lot of money? Probably. And guess what, neither of them were even mentioned in the sypnosis, because it wasn't the 'author's intention' to include them in it. Yet, it didn't stop thousands of fans from hoping that they would be in there. The director knew this would happen obviously. He's not an idiot, you know?

Fundog said:
I don't think like most people. If I did, I would just be a sheep rehashing the same arguments that everyone else does, and that would be a waste of time for everyone involved.

Levi-costa said:
I am not sure if he is alive but who is the person who appears in the code geass akito the exiled in the end and it seems to be lelouch.

Kamui-Yui said:


that PD was nothing but fan service

ghost? really?? you really think an extremely logical anime like Code Geass would have ghosts in it???

people misinterpret yet again...

SurferDude said:
the producers themselves said that Lelouch is dead, well in a way he IS, at least his IDENTITY as Lelouch is. He can't just keep calling himself "Lelouch" when the ENTIRE PLANET knows who that is, now can he ? So in that way, yes, he is dead. But not PHYSICALLY. He's IMMORTAL

Thep said:
4. Want hard evidence?
Some people still say all this is speculation, and that only the facts that CC is smiling and Charles was killed can be actual facts.
(Oh?)
Early in the anime series, Nunnally gives her brother Lelouch a pink origami crane, which was taught to her by the japanese maid. This origami crane can be found on the cart next to CC. You may say "it's CC's to remind her of Lelouch". But let's be logical. That crane was a special keepsake to Lelouch, and it's very very doubtful that he even showed it to anyone else beforehand. Logic dictates that he's alive and takes that origami around with him to remind him of Nunnally, while he lives forever with CC.

NihonFalcom said:
I like how he got stabbed.... yeah...

Arctheus said:


I completely agree with this. There are an overwhelming amount of posts repeating the same fact: the creators confirmed that Lelouch is dead. I wasn't able to see this for myself as all the links I found were broken, but since an overwhelming amount of people claims it to be true, I chose to believe it.

However, I'm genuinely not surprised that they would say Lelouch is dead. Rather, I would be surprised if they said he was still alive. This anime is too smart to reveal everything on the surface; if the creators simply said he was alive, that would completely render all the work put into leaving clues that led to Lelouch being alive useless.

Moreover, the idea of a "symbol" is largely present in the anime - as Zero is commonly referred to as an idea or a symbol by Diethard. This suggests that the name "Lelouch" also has the potential to be an "idea" or a "symbol", one that either represents the emperor of Britannia or the miracle worker himself. He's dead in the sense that the emperor Lelouch has died and will never come back, or that Lelouch won't be performing anymore "miracles" for the time being. I'm not saying that this anime is only for smart people, but this anime rewards those who takes a step further to look beneath the surface.

As a designer and artist myself, I wouldn't want people to know everything about my work from just glancing at it. I would like my work to have two sides: one of the surface, and one for the people who really analyze my work and look at the details. Those details really aren't there just for the aesthetics; the creators didn't pour their life into their work just for eyecandy.

They're not lying to us all when they say he's dead, they just don't mean it in the way you think they mean it.

Ichiro Okouchi, 'Continue' vol 42, (October 2008). "Lelouch dead!? Was it a good one or a bad one!?"

" -----Still, isn't it possible that defeating the wise ruler Schneizel, the person who was supposed to have brought order to the world, might lead to some [viewers] interpreting it as a Bad End?

Okouchi: That's true. There are probably a lot of people who think of it as a Bad End, a tragedy, considering the protagonist's, Lelouch's end as well. However, Lelouch says in the first episode: "Only those prepared to be shot are allowed to pull the trigger themselves." If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end. Of course, I understand that not all of the viewers will accept this ending. There were people who wanted a happier ending, after all.

C.C.'s profile on the official GeassNet (mobile) website

"..Knowing that Lelouch does not hate her for giving him the Geass, she is now able to show her true feelings. With the realization of "Zero Requiem", her time with Lelouch, who was able to forgive and accept her, came to an end, but the memories created with him has, without doubt, saved her from eternal loneliness."

C.C.'s Final monologue - Zero Requiem DVD

"There was a boy.
He obtained the power to change the world, to create a new order.
The world was terrified of him, hated him.
... But, I know.
He, who passed away with a smile.
So. This is not a tragedy.
And yet, at the time, the night came where I sobbed with a sadness I wouldn't resist.
I lament. A dirge. The Zero Requiem..."

Funkyjazzwagon said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo For those bickering, yes he is still alive in the original Japanese release. In the English release an important part to the final scene was taken out. Not convinced? Just watch the video for your proof

Funkyjazzwagon said:
how is it fake?___

Kavila1990 said:
Lelouch is still alive. if you remember the guy who served Lady Marians cause with the golden eye piece and blue hair... at the scene of the parade to the execution site... when zero jumps on him, he says move forward masked knight... but he knew that Lelouch was Zero before hand and since they planned it.. he let "zero" move forward to kill Lelouch.... then at the end when kallin was saying how the world did change... the same guy with the blue hair and eye piece was on a farm with the girl with the pink hair. Both of them knew that Lelouch had planned and staged his own "execution" by the hands of zero.... but they were on the farm of orange groves and then at the last scene you see the pull cart scene which is.. if you look... surrounded by orange groves... so that means they are all living in a community... then CC asks about the Code Geass and if you are observant.. you notice the Pink Crane Origami which Lelouch's sister gave him in the beginning of the first season of Code Geass.. not R2.... so yes Lelouch is still alive and they are probably planning to make a new season. Also he has a 2 eyed Code Geass just like his father which means he enabled Code Geass in his system. complete control like CC.... if you can recall CC was shot in the beginning of the 1st season but she remained immortal just like Lelouch's father became immortal with complete control of Code Geass... which means Lelouch has now also became immortal. I hope I cleared up some things. Theres no false hope or anything. Hell idc if he really died or not.. it was a good show either way.... but thinking of how popular the show became... they wont just end Lelouch like that. A new season is probably in the making.

alcover123 said:
Time to revive this thread! Recap movies and a sequel is coming. The title is Code Geass Fukkatsu no Lelouch. Everyone who said Lelouch was dead time to swallow your words!

xenomorph555 said:


Not really, the anime is called "Lelouch of the *Resurrection*".


Resurrection- "raising from the dead, restoration to life"



Lelouch died at the end of R2 > Resurrected through Geass magic in the beginning of LotR (oh fuck).

Frostbytes said:


Well yeah that's the most likely theory. There is the nunally vision at the end to strengthen it.

ReaperCreeper said:
I think we should wait until it actually airs before we go saying the theory was right.