If this could be added, why can't Memories of Phantasm/Gensou Mangekyou?

Mar 5, 2012 3:06 AM

Offline

May 2010

5

Agreed. The Memories of Phantasm is an exceptional piece of work that deserves to be added. There's already quite a few pages on MAL that are out of category. For instance, If you look up Black Rock Shooter, you'll find that the original MV has its own page. Sure, it's the official one, but as far as I know, MV's still aren't anime. I think all things considered, The Memories of Phantasm is more than worthy of a MAL page.

Aug 22, 2012 6:51 AM

#3

LeonLanford

Offline

Jul 2008

522

that's really strange indeed..
a title i never heard before even made it to here.. (just saw it now)

http://myanimelist.net/anime/15293/Zettai_ni_waratte_wa_ikenai_miko-san_24-ji
even the synopsis says doujin: "A doujin anime of the doujin danmaku game series Touhou."

Aug 27, 2012 10:55 PM

#4

octal9

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Oct 2011

1049

agree completely - memories of phantasm should be entered into the database if this one is in here! makes no sense........

Feb 1, 2013 7:06 AM

#5

dx8519

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Aug 2012

1

Might have something to do with the voice actors...

Feb 26, 2013 2:28 PM

#6

alex_98

Offline

Jun 2012

106

dx8519 said:
Might have something to do with the voice actors...

if you ever saw memories of phantasm with voices:
these are fan-dubs by fan-subbers
the original animation doesn't have any voices, just japanese subs and bgm

btw, i didn't know that before too
and zettai ni waratte wa ikenai miko-san 24-ji has been deleted from the database

...I think it was something like that...

Anime:

osu! :

Jun 22, 2013 12:20 PM

#7

sheogorin

Offline

Apr 2012

14

dx8519 said:
Might have something to do with the voice actors...

theres actually one fandub with only one Voice Actor doing all the voices^^

Jul 10, 2013 8:47 PM

#8

Lord_Odous

Offline

Apr 2013

268

I highly agree as well! With 2 episodes already out there and a 3rd one in the making, why not add this into MAL?

IMO Gensou Magekyou's animation quality is better than Musou Kakyou's...

Jul 20, 2013 10:43 PM

#9

NeoVenezia

Offline

Sep 2012

2537

OMFG I just watched the 2 episodes and they are amazing! This is high quality considering this is a fan made. The music, the animation, the voices...
What the fuck MAL? Add this shit ASAP!

Jul 25, 2013 11:41 AM

#10

loverking

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May 2013

11

hi when these going to add Touhou Gensou Mangekyou: The Memories of Phantasm??????????????????????????????????

Jul 25, 2013 11:42 AM

#11

loverking

Offline

May 2013

11

Jauregui said:
OMFG I just watched the 2 episodes and they are amazing! This is high quality considering this is a fan made. The music, the animation, the voices...
What the fuck MAL? Add this shit ASAP!

i feeling same as u

Aug 14, 2013 10:01 PM

#12

czerkill

Offline

Jun 2013

3

Tried to add Gensou Mangekyou and was still denied

Anime Submission Denied
Your submission for the anime: Touhou Gensou Mangekyou has been denied by a moderator. Reason: This is a doujin animation.

While Touhou Niji Sousaku Doujin Anime: Musou Kakyou, is added where it completely says Doujin anime

Gensou Mangekyou is worlds apart from Musou Kakyou, they should add this already

Sep 7, 2013 10:26 AM

#13

Lord_Odous

Offline

Apr 2013

268

czerkill said:
Tried to add Gensou Mangekyou and was still denied

Anime Submission Denied
Your submission for the anime: Touhou Gensou Mangekyou has been denied by a moderator. Reason: This is a doujin animation.

While Touhou Niji Sousaku Doujin Anime: Musou Kakyou, is added where it completely says Doujin anime

Gensou Mangekyou is worlds apart from Musou Kakyou, they should add this already

Maybe it's because Musou kakyou has professional seiyuus while Gensou Mangekyou doesn't?

Sep 20, 2013 9:18 AM

#14

Atsuki_Kimidori

Offline

Apr 2013

19

meh, they should base their critea on quality instead of being "professional", an fan anime with shitty animation quality like this got added while a professional quality anime like Memories of Phantasm not just because it was not made by a "professional" company.

Memories of Phantasm been added on animeplanet and AnimeDatabase, yet not on MAL.

TLDR MAL is a shitty site, I want to DDoS it already.

Atsuki_KimidoriSep 20, 2013 9:25 AM

Nov 14, 2013 2:20 PM

#15

Jigsy

Offline

Jan 2009

120

endlessdusk said:
Maybe it's because Musou kakyou has professional seiyuus while Gensou Mangekyou doesn't?

Gensou Mangekyou doesn't even have voice acting.

We're the same. Nuisances with nowhere to go.

Nov 14, 2013 2:25 PM

#16

IntroverTurtle

Offline

Nov 2010

26413

1. The following entries are allowed in the anime database:

Doujinshi/independent anime if:

it has been acquired and released by a reputable company;
the creator has won one of the following significant anime awards: Tokyo International Anime Award, Mainichi Film Award or Japan Media Arts Festival award; or
at least one staff member is a professional Japanese anime/manga creator.

Why don't you guys ask an anime db mod why one is allowed and another is not so they can tell you why and you can possibly find some evidence to get it added instead of whining about it.

Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰

Oct 7, 2014 6:23 PM

#17

GrimAtrament

Offline

Feb 2010

11919

IntroverTurtle said:
1. The following entries are allowed in the anime database:

Doujinshi/independent anime if:

it has been acquired and released by a reputable company;
the creator has won one of the following significant anime awards: Tokyo International Anime Award, Mainichi Film Award or Japan Media Arts Festival award; or
at least one staff member is a professional Japanese anime/manga creator.

Why don't you guys ask an anime db mod why one is allowed and another is not so they can tell you why and you can possibly find some evidence to get it added instead of whining about it.

ehh Maikaze only makes this one so how are they a reputable company?
i dont think this anime won any of those awards
also zun is a professional manga creator and the oringal creator of all touhou stuff so literately memory of phantasm should be here as well your arrgument is invalid

"among monsters and humans, there are only two types.
Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice
“Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume
“Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus

May 22, 2015 5:48 PM

#18

bittersweetlove

Offline

Jul 2009

4805

Woah, I think that Fantasy Kaleidoscope it's very well done, it should have an entry for sure, but the mods must have their reason why it don't, we asking won't change it...

Aug 6, 2015 9:34 AM

#19

GrimAtrament

Offline

Feb 2010

11919

TsundereLolicon said:
They even made episode 4 n 5 already -_-

menwhile summers day dream touhou anime and they have a group working on it not one person -_-

"among monsters and humans, there are only two types.
Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice
“Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume
“Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus

Aug 6, 2015 9:50 AM

#20

IntroverTurtle

Offline

Nov 2010

26413

hazerddex said:

IntroverTurtle said:
1. The following entries are allowed in the anime database:

Doujinshi/independent anime if:

it has been acquired and released by a reputable company;
the creator has won one of the following significant anime awards: Tokyo International Anime Award, Mainichi Film Award or Japan Media Arts Festival award; or
at least one staff member is a professional Japanese anime/manga creator.

Why don't you guys ask an anime db mod why one is allowed and another is not so they can tell you why and you can possibly find some evidence to get it added instead of whining about it.

ehh Maikaze only makes this one so how are they a reputable company?
i dont think this anime won any of those awards
also zun is a professional manga creator and the oringal creator of all touhou stuff so literately memory of phantasm should be here as well your arrgument is invalid

I guess you do love to whine and cry rather than know the answers. Carry on big babies.

Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰

Aug 6, 2015 10:04 AM

#21

GrimAtrament

Offline

Feb 2010

11919

IntroverTurtle said:

hazerddex said:

ehh Maikaze only makes this one so how are they a reputable company?
i dont think this anime won any of those awards
also zun is a professional manga creator and the oringal creator of all touhou stuff so literately memory of phantasm should be here as well your arrgument is invalid

I guess you do love to whine and cry rather than know the answers. Carry on big babies.

but you answered nothing :|

this doshjin met none of the conditions yet is on mal

GrimAtramentAug 6, 2015 10:10 AM

"among monsters and humans, there are only two types.
Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice
“Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume
“Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus

Aug 6, 2015 10:26 AM

#22

IntroverTurtle

Offline

Nov 2010

26413

hazerddex said:

IntroverTurtle said:

I guess you do love to whine and cry rather than know the answers. Carry on big babies.

but you answered nothing :|

this doshjin met none of the conditions yet is on mal

Still proving me right. You haven't asked one of the people who will no doubt know the answer(i.e. a mod) of why it's in here because they are the ones who added it and can end all the speculation at once. You're content with whining and crying about it while calling the mods big stupid meanie heads who are playing favorites or are adding anime against their own rules. When it's most likely that you do not know the correct info regarding the guidelines posted and how this one fits it.

Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰

Aug 18, 2015 1:32 PM

#23

GrimAtrament

Offline

Feb 2010

11919

IntroverTurtle said:

hazerddex said:

but you answered nothing :|

this doshjin met none of the conditions yet is on mal

Still proving me right. You haven't asked one of the people who will no doubt know the answer(i.e. a mod) of why it's in here because they are the ones who added it and can end all the speculation at once. You're content with whining and crying about it while calling the mods big stupid meanie heads who are playing favorites or are adding anime against their own rules. When it's most likely that you do not know the correct info regarding the guidelines posted and how this one fits it.

dude chill
i did not call the mods anything where the hell are you getting this from O_o
i did not ask the mods yet because idk whos the one i ask in regaurds to the site info
i only know the forum mods

"among monsters and humans, there are only two types.
Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice
“Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume
“Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus

Aug 20, 2015 8:45 PM

#24

404Fox

Offline

Feb 2014

171

Is there really anything wrong with making this one exception?

Aug 20, 2015 9:33 PM

#25

IntroverTurtle

Offline

Nov 2010

26413

hazerddex said:

dude chill
i did not call the mods anything where the hell are you getting this from O_o
i did not ask the mods yet because idk whos the one i ask in regaurds to the site info
i only know the forum mods

That was so dumb I hope you're actually trolling.

404Fox said:
Is there really anything wrong with making this one exception?

Yes, because rules.

Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰

Aug 12, 2016 12:58 PM

#26

Yakysann

Offline

Mar 2016

239

Yes, I mean Memories of Phantasm's animation and story are so much better. Who cares if it's a doujin, the work but into it is inhuman I'd say. And this one here is a doujin too so what the hэll Mal?!

Aug 28, 2018 7:23 PM

#27

YoshiKirishima

Offline

Jan 2011

25

This is so dumb.

Memories of Phantasm is professional in multiple ways.

1) The art and animation quality are clearly professional. Memories of Phantasm is one of the best animated fan-works out there, period. Add to that the fact that it is actually an ongoing series with a sustained and long runtime, the quality is clearly professional. Sure, it does not have official voice acting, but who says that an anime has to have voices? Are old movies that do not have voices, not movies? No, they are movies because they are still of the film medium.

2) Memories of Phantasm is officially recognized by ZUN (allowed to exist), and thus they are able to sell it commercially at Comiket. They are literally making money off of this. A definition of professional is someone who does something for a living. While they probably are not living solely off of the profits of this work, I'm sure they are making a decent amount. And there is a good chance that many of the people working on this, are living a life of art working on various things.

3) Since the criteria is that at least one of the staff have to be professional, it's very likely that the animation team behind Memories of Phantasm satisfies this. I would be very surprised if not a single of of the animators who worked on this are an actual professional animator who is doing this in their free time. The animation quality is insane. I can't stress how high quality and skilled the animation is.

I admit I have no proof that at least one of the animators works for a professional company, being paid a steady salary. However, freelance is a thing. You don't need to be employed at a studio to be a professional, as long as you are making money off of it that you depend on, to a notable degree, to live.

Aside from animators though, there is the music team. Yuuhei Satellite composed the OST and the OP/ED/insert songs. They are definitely professional, as it has been confirmed that the members of the band are actually professional musicians, and that is why they hide their identity with masks when performing live as Yuuhei Satellite. The identity of the vocalist Senya is known and she is part of a professional band with a producer.

Memories of Phantasm satisfies MAL's silly criteria in various ways. At worst, you could argue there is a slight gray area... but seriously why does it matter? Does it hurt to add it? Seriously there's such a thing as being too stuck up. It would only benefit the community to have it listed.

Not to mention that the Maikaze Touhou doujin is listed... why? Because of professional VAs, and thus at least 1 staff member is professional? Memories of Phantasm satisfies this clearly with the music team alone.

YoshiKirishimaAug 28, 2018 7:26 PM

Nov 2, 2018 4:41 AM

#28

CyndNinja

Offline

Mar 2010

20

First of all, Memories of Phantasm is literally anime with no dubbing. This pretty much seals it. On top of that no one in the cast, who is actually a professional credited elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Summer Day's Dream and Hifuu both not only have dub, but also have full casts of professional VAs, so they have pros in the cast, so they are professionally produced according to MAL's definitions, no questions asked.

Also:

YoshiKirishima said:

I would be very surprised if not a single of of the animators who worked on this are an actual professional animator who is doing this in their free time. The animation quality is insane. I can't stress how high quality and skilled the animation is.

I admit I have no proof that at least one of the animators works for a professional company, being paid a steady salary. However, freelance is a thing. You don't need to be employed at a studio to be a professional, as long as you are making money off of it that you depend on, to a notable degree, to live.

Animators are credited in the shows' credits. All one would need to do is check all the animators, but nobody has time for that.

EDIT: I actually googled some of the credited names and nicknames, there are some guys with pixivs but I couldn't find anyone who has worked on actual mal-listed anime.

CyndNinjaNov 2, 2018 5:11 AM

Nov 18, 2018 10:47 PM

#29

YoshiKirishima

Offline

Jan 2011

25

Thank you for your input, but I do not think your reasoning is bullet proof. I'll try to explain what I disagree on.

CyndNinja said:
First of all, Memories of Phantasm is literally anime with no dubbing. This pretty much seals it. On top of that no one in the cast, who is actually a professional credited elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Summer Day's Dream and Hifuu both not only have dub, but also have full casts of professional VAs, so they have pros in the cast, so they are professionally produced according to MAL's definitions, no questions asked.

Animation as a medium is not defined by whether there is voice acting or no voice acting if that is what you were trying to imply. There are professionally produced and distributed anime that have no voices. They are animation, and I'm sure they are listed on MAL as well. (Think of those short story animated works where they have no voices, there are many of them).

Ok, so the other Touhou doujins have at least 1 professional on the staff. I agree, by MAL's definition, they can be listed. Now, back to Memories of Phantasm's case:

CyndNinja said:
Animators are credited in the shows' credits. All one would need to do is check all the animators, but nobody has time for that.

EDIT: I actually googled some of the credited names and nicknames, there are some guys with pixivs but I couldn't find anyone who has worked on actual mal-listed anime.

Thanks for your efforts as I am lazy, but of course we are not going to find those names listed on other mal anime. I assume all of the names in the credits are screennames/pixiv names (if not all, then definitely nearly all of them from what I remember the last time I viewed the credits).

However as I have said, Memories of Phantasm DOES have at least 1 professional involved in the production. The entire music team is comprised of professional musicians. This is a public fact. Yuuhei Satellite are actually members of a professional band(s) with a producer and released songs.

We do not know the real identity of any of the staff however, except Senya, but that DOES mean we know at least one person's identity. She continues to wear the mask though as per her superior's wishes (maybe they don't want people to associate Touhou with the stuff she does under her real name or whatever, etc.). And Senya has contributed to professionally produced anime.

Senya's real name is Mayumi Morinaga. And just looking at her Twitter since I don't know what she's actually done, she sang an ED for Fairy Tale. Outside of anime, she contributes songs and her voice for professionally produced video games.

So my question for the MAL mods is... the only qualification that can reasonably be disputed is whether Memories of Phantasm has at least 1 professional, whose identity we know, on the staff. Memories of Phantasm satisfied the other conditions to be listed. And Senya is a professional who was involved; she is the lead singer and provides vocals for all of the songs. I think this is fair enough to accept and enough to list it as per MAL's rules.

Now there are other reasons and ways I can argue the rest of the staff is also professional, given the way the rule is worded right now. And this is because MAL does not give a more specific definition as to what "professional" means, and therefore, we can only look at that word using the general definition of it, which is that you are a professional in something if your livelihood depends on that line of work. If they meant something more specific, then the rule should be changed and they should not use the word "professional" plainly.

What exactly does MAL require for someone to be considered a "professional", if they are not going by the general definition?
1) Does MAL require that you do not use an alias? There are professional animators who use aliases depending on the work, but we know they are professional and hiding identity doesn't take away from that.
2) Does MAL require that you are employed at a company? Freelancing is a thing and freelancers are considered professionals who are self-employed.
3) Does MAL require a work to sell a certain amount and make enough profits in order for it to consider that those working on it are making a significant enough amount of money to be considered partially dependent on that work's profits for their livelihood?
Again, Memories of Phantasm sells a significant amount of sales and I would not be surprised if they have surpassed 1 million USD in revenue right now across all sales.
(Note that I do not know how they distribute the profits, but it is irrelevant, because the money must go to at LEAST one person, and if it is going all to 1 person then they are definitely making enough for it to be a significant support to their livelihood).

Since MAL does not specify some kind of particular definition as to what they want "professional" to mean, the mods thus CANNOT interpret the word to mean something other than its general meaning in such a way as to rule Memories of Phantasm out. If they mean something more specific than "someone is a pro if they they depend on that work to support their livelihood", then they should not be using the word "professional" and instead word the rule in a different way.

The animators may not be employed at animation studios, but they make enough revenue for it to contribute meaningfully to their livelihood... especially if you consider how little most animators make to begin with, and yet we consider them professionals even if they don't make enough to be truly independent and have to live with their parents until their 30s... My point here being that it is widely accepted in the anime community that Japanese animators are professionals even if they don't make more than ~$10,000 USD, and that having a low salary does not disqualify you as being a professional.

The music staff are professionals because they are part of professional bands. And Senya the lead singer is a professional singer who has contributed to numerous professional anime and professional games.

Sorry for the long post, but I stand firm that Memories fits all the rules needed to be listed on MAL, I hope the MAL mods would review this one day and change their stance with an un-biased and clear judgement.

For MAL mods to give a ruling that Memories does not have at least 1 professional, they would have to dispell all of the arguments and points I provided, and they must explain why the animators, music staff, and Senya are all NOT professional in ANY meaning of the word professional. Or they must revise the wording of the rule.

YoshiKirishimaNov 18, 2018 11:02 PM

Jan 5, 2019 5:18 AM

#30

Selenna

Offline

Dec 2018

77

luckily the anidb and anime-planet dont have any prolem with doujin-anime with celebrites seiyuu:
https://www.anime-planet.com/anime/touhou-gensou-mangekyou-the-memories-of-phantasm
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=8624

May 8, 2020 8:42 AM

#31

Tooru25

Offline

May 2018

2

Touhou Gensou Mangekyou: The Memories of Phantasm is a classic treasure of an anime and new episodes are still being made by it's fans. It is a complete and absolute sin for it to not have it's own page, score/rating and reviews on MAL. Honestly I'm disappointed.

May 9, 2020 6:48 PM

#32

Ryuseishun

Offline

Mar 2016

2988

MAL simply can’t make comprehensive decisions to save themselves, tbf.

Not even AniList now. This is so full of shit.

RyuseishunJun 25, 2020 8:10 PM

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If this could be added, why can't Memories of Phantasm/Gensou Mangekyou?

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