Texhnolyze Episode 22 Discussion
Aug 11, 2015 1:46 AM
Aug 24, 2015 4:15 AM
Sep 5, 2015 12:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Thank you very much for your information and parts of the interview. Helped me a lot to come to senses after watching this mind blowing show.
Do you think - or is it clear - that after everyone died, the new circle, as the elder once stated, will soon begin? I mean, there were some hints (e.g. the blossing digital flower or the insects), but didn't the Class also stated that they and humanity itself are near extinction?
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Shounen is trash
Joined: Aug 2016
Texhnolyze is my number 1 favorite anime so I’m going to write my thoughts on the show. All this is only my opinion.
As others have said, I think the top world and the bottom world represent too possible paths humanity can take. The “good” option which is the above world and the bad option which is the bottom world, with Chiaki Konaka taking the view that humanity is destined to be in despair no matter if we “succeed” or fail. I’ll mostly focus on the bottom world in this post but the main point of the top world is that if humanity solves all its problems, society will fall into despair because there will be nothing to work towards. Another interpretation is that this is an extreme exaggeration of the current aimless middle class with the scenes at Yoshi’s work suggesting that bureaucracy is dulling our world. The top world’s society is spiritually and mentally dead but they still try to get Yoshi to fill out a form to go underground despite them not caring about Yoshi or the form at all. They are just working through the motions without meaning, and you can see this when their monitors go into panic mode and they all just sit there. Either way this creates psychopaths like Yoshi who go around murdering people for fun. The two options also show Chiaki’s view on the evolution of humanity: replacing the body with machinery is less effective than the combination of biogenetics and machine organs used by the top world.
Moving onto the bottom world, the biggest metaphor in the show is Ran. At the end it is revealed she ‘birthed’ Lux and can talk to people as the ‘voice of the city’. So she is pretty much a representation of society’s soul. She sees the future but instead of acting to avoid this future she explicitly tells her followers to act in ways that will lead to the terrible future she sees (even going as far as telling her followers to make guns for the Class). This is a metaphor saying that civilians know about humanity’s future if we neglect the environment and resource scarcity (overreliance on machinery and lack of resources to power this machinery is a key point of the show) but we still do nothing to stop it.
Now onto her relationships with other characters. Why is it that Oonishi is the only one who can hear her as the ‘voice of the city’ throughout the show? This is because he represents a good hearted politician who genuinely listens to the people and works for what society (Ran) wants. Unfortunately Ran/society doesn’t know what is best for them (more social commentary) and their desires eventually lead them to their doom. He also fails to control the corruption within his own organisation despite his best efforts; no matter how good a leader you are, the people under you will still cause pain for their own good. A rather negative view of human nature.
Now onto Yoshi. At the beginning of the show he descends from ‘heaven’ and arrives at the bottom world where he immediately receives help from Ran. There is a contradiction here as Ran tells Oonishi as the ‘voice of the city’ that she does not want a spectacle while at the same time leading a cunning serial killer into the city. Then when he starts killing people she regrets what she did. This is a metaphor for how society wants to keep the status quo while ultimately producing murders/rapists etc. But like Ran, society only regrets this when people start dying (school shootings etc).
And then there is Ichise. At the beginning of the show he has nothing to live for, but he finds a place to belong where he is valued working under Oonishi and falls in love with Doc, finding reasons to live. And that’s why he wants to protect her; he wants to protect this city where he has found at least some sort of fulfilment. But it all falls apart in the end. Ran is killed by Kano, the leader of the class (more social commentary: rich people will destroy society) and everyone dies. Ichise finally understands Nihlilism. The end.
Also every character represents a different philosophy and reacts to the end of the world in ways fitting of a person of that philosophy. This is made painfully obvious when Kano tells Ichise he is a firm believer in solipsism. Oonishi is realism/healthy dose of optimism, Yoshi is absurdism, the people of Gabe are determinism, the people of the above world are nihilism, Shinji and the Rakan are hedonism and there might be others I have missed.
Texhnolyze is the only anime I’m willing to give a 10/10. Masterpiece.
are you sure ichise loved doc? the "relationship" seemed so one sided basically the whole show... even in the final few eps when she has to tell him to hug him tighter, and when she holds his hand at the theatre but he doesnt respond to it all or hold her hand.. idk there was alot more but i honestly dont think ichise loved doc... more likely that he loved ran just because of what she did for him.
Oct 3, 2016 7:16 PM
Oct 8, 2016 3:08 PM
Late to the party and just finished this. This is easily my newest 9/10. I haven't given a high score to something for a long time now, so this really feels exciting lol.
Relatively simple yet deep plot, great characters, bloody-tastic action sequences and the most bittersweet finale I've ever seen in anime (Shinsekai Yori's ending is a close second). And speaking of the ending, that's certainly gonna leave a hole in my heart for days lol. The scene where Ichise tosses Ran's head into the chasm was one of the most touching things I ever saw in anime. It's made even sadder with Ran's peaceful smile and the beautiful piano music.
As for the characters, Oonishi is by far my favorite guy. Other than symbolizing the remaining hope and order of Lux, he's got the most badass scenes in the show, from parleying with the Union and Racan to his noble sacrifice. Doc is a close second. I really love how she's so nihilistic yet considered a 'good' character by the show's dark standards.
A masterpiece overall. I have no idea why this is so grossly underrated in MAL. Maybe a lot of people couldn't stomach the first few utterly strange episodes? Which is sad since the show becomes more straightforward after Ichise opens his mouth for the first time.
Modified by Skittles, Oct 27, 2016 10:06 AM
Oct 27, 2016 9:54 AM
Nov 1, 2016 1:14 PM
Joined: May 2016
Rievlyne said:You didn't pay enough attention. First of all, Ran's attention is obviously because of her prophetic ability which allows her to foresee what will happen in Ichise's destiny.
Firstly, my main gripe with Texhnolyze is that I don't get the somewhat unreasonable the entire characters towards Ichise, no, not when he already join Organo and become Badass, but when he's still a stray dogs in the earlier episodes. I still not grasping of why the doctor, Keigo, Shinji, Yoshii and Ran is paying so much attention to Ichise. It is as if I'm watching Bleach (just for the sake of comparison, Texh is in different league certainly) all over again. At the very least, it was sound reasonably there considering Ichigo is indeed special with its Hollow/quincy/Shinigami/whatever bloodline he has, where as I failed to see what makes Ichise has reedeming quality on his self. The guy has nothing, at all. I waited 7, 9 and finally give up at the 13 episodes to hoping the show show us what makes the characters see Ichise so special but it never happened. A bit more of explanation might have helped in getting a bit more of a grip on the story.
Doc is interested in Ichise because unlike other people who just fall over and die, Ichise demonstrates a vivacity and struggle to survive unlike almost anyone else in the city. She saves him off the streets because he, without his limbs, is perfect for experimentation. Shinji isn't interested in Ichise, and there's nothing in the series that would suggest he's overly concerned with him. Onishi isn't that interested either, but spares Ichise's life out of a shred of human compassion. Ichise manages to prove himself as he rises through the ranks of Organo and only then does Onishi pays him any heed.
Rievlyne said:I don't even know what this means. Onishi makes it perfectly clear why he doesn't kill Ichise.
Secondly is regarding the characters (especially Ichise) plot armor, the show does have a lot of unbelievable situation where (mostly) in the earlier episodes where the Organo or Onishii had many chance to kill Ichise.
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The show immersed me instantly with its cool "show, not tell" atmosphere/vibe. Sure not much character development happened in the early episodes but I was fine with that because they had plenty of time left, it's called setup. I had no problem with Ichise being a mostly mute savage because it was part of his character, one fitting of such a world.
Despite saying I liked "show don't tell," as the series progressed and the stakes were raised I wish they told us just a little more, like why some characters behaved certain ways.
I just feel like I was missing a few plot points and I'm not really sure which ones... maybe Ran's connection to the city? I just know she has psychic power and it somehow connects her to the city/texhnolyzation. I think it's great that this show doesn't fully explain everything, but I needed just a little more to be able to piece stuff together. Or maybe I just missed some things.
I do like parts of it and ideas they were going for, I just think the show didn't fully come together post-Yoshi. It didn't quite make enough sense and felt like a weird fever dream that gets progressively worse further into the night. Though I guess that also ties into why I partially liked it.
I both liked it and didn't. Definitely "mixed". At least it showed a side of humanity we don't always see, that's why I like sci-fi. So, while I could've used a little more explanation, it's refreshing in that regard and maybe I'll grow to like it more the longer it resides in my brain. It's definitely a show that leaves an impression, which is a good quality in itself.
Modified by hinto, Jun 5, 2017 2:58 PM
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Jun 4, 2017 3:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
If Ichise had acted only once on one of his own desires instead of the other's around him, things would've turned out much better.
In the end, he only pursued his own self interest when it was far too late and when there was really nobody else left to help. His pursuit to pay back his debt to everyone left him helping nobody.
He could've stayed with the doc, he could've gone to save Ran earlier a number of times and he could've not just ran along with a mob because of feeling in debt. His inability to do any of those lead him down a path where he watched everyone around him perish and he was left alone.
Jul 17, 2017 1:51 PM
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Dec 27, 2017 12:26 PM
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A simple analysis written by the user Chaos about 2 years ago:
<The anime attempt to cover a vast amount of topics of sci-fi. I will explain some of them:
1) Predestination - the idea that one cannot change the future. Ran sees the future, but is unable to change no matter what she does. In fact, she attempt to changes and indirectly caused it. She tells the people the future of the city and in return, caused its destruction as people went insane (Self-fulfilling prophecy).
2) Human Nature - there were 3 distinct classes of human: the animalistic (criminals/citizens of Lux), Theonormal (people on the surface), and a mix of both (the Class). Citizens of Lux are in fact criminals, psychopaths, and deviants of humanity society. They were exiled to the underground in order to evolve human further (or so the Theonormal thoughts). Sent there, they form a city in hope of evolving. However, it is plagued with crimes caused by their own nature. MC is the primary example of that.
The Theonormals are the good human, who thinks logically. The banish the criminals of their society in order to evolve. However without a mean of desire to push them forward, they can only stand still waiting for death. Nobody threaten their existence (unlike people of Lux) and they don't have a care in the world. They spent their days wasting away, without a sense of purpose.
The Class is a mixed of criminals who has evolved with sophistication. They are well known for being complete cyborgs. They embrace technology (texhnolyization) in order to evolve. However at some point, they stop being humans.
The anime asked: what does it means to be human?
3) Cyberization - the next evolutionary step for human. A combination of human and machine. The anime addresses the effects of cyberization on humans. For example, replacing human body parts with another or with a robot arm, the body rejects it. The effect was a disease (shown on the leader of Union's body, the brain damage to people who become Shapes, and how the robot parts change people making them less human).
4) Human Extinction - every creature that ever born has to die. However, humans for whatever reasons think they are different and extinction cannot happened to them. Extinction can comes at different forms: an unstoppable virus (think zombie apocalypse), a huge asteroid (think dinosaurs), alien invasion, and human own doing (like population, war, nuclear bomb, and human nature). This anime addresses the idea that human's nature will be its own downfall.
5) The Meaning of Life - every character in the story attempt to find their meaning to life. Some rise to power by stepping over the weak (such as the 3 gangs). Some believe of bring order to a madden world (like Onishi). Some want to destroy it (like Yoshi and Kano). Other try to invest in technology (like the Doc). And other simply want to live for no reason whatsoever (like the MC and Tooyama).
Other themes are minor like Post-apocalyptic world, Supernatural power, Human's Proud, etc. The ending I think it what most people will hate since they are so used to a happy ending. I think if MC were to save Ran and the two of them were the only two human left in Lux, nobody would complain about that.>
And still, Bill will live on.
He will befriend the next inhabitants of the earth, beings of light who revere him as a god.
And Bill will outlive them all... for millions and millions of years...exploring, learning, living,
until the earth is swallowed beneath his feet.
Until the sun is long since gone.
Until time loses all meaning and the moment comes that he knows only the positions of the stars
and sees them whether his eyes are closed or open.
Until he forgets his name and the place where he'd once come from.
He lives and he lives until all of the lights go out.
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fieldsgrow1 said:Very interesting hypothesis, I hadn't pushed my reflection so far and yet it's true that it made sense !
A scene that I don't really see people talking about is the scene where Oonishi stabs the Obilisk which has the image of Ran. During the show a few characters say the only reason Lux exists is to mine Rafia and the Rafia mine is represented with the big Obilisk on top of it. Towards the end of the show, Rafia runs out and we find out that the underground world is an endless cycle of rafia running out > people dying > dead people turn into rafia. So since Ran is a metaphor for society/the city (she talks to Oonishi as the voice of the city and also see my post a few posts up) and the Obilisk is a metaphor for the city (representing the city's reason for existence), this explains that scene because Rafia running out = city dying = ran dying and everyone can agree that if a city gets to a point where their leader is killed by a gang of homeless people, the city is clearly dead.
Also I believe since Kano was aware of the above world, I believe he is also aware of the endless cycle of dead people and rafia and his purpose of the shapes was to leave them there as a signal for the next generation of people to hopefully stop them from continuing the same mistakes. This is also obvious in the scene where he acts nonchalant when finding out the shapes are getting gangrene and are becoming unable to function. It simply doesn't matter to him they just have to survive until the next generation. He was clearly crazy though but he does have reasons for his actions. This is a strong point in Texnolyse in that no character does anything for no reason. That is a big part in Yoshi's character and it is the main thing that comes together the second time you watch it.