Rules & Reminders said:
1) The Poll will be available for two weeks
2) Vote for the character who you think represents the Flame Element better
3) If you want, share your opinion with us
Its so unfair... Why... Gosh, why this dumb Hibari. == The most boring character ever... Mukuro. T.T U will be still in my heart with Yama-chan & Flan.
Wow, I really didn't expect it to have such a gap.
~~
@ Hisagi:
Which detestable things Mukuro did exactly? :/
Killed people which experimented on him? Swore to destroy Mafia because Mafia were the ones which killed his friends & family? How is that detestable?
Squalo, Bel & Xanxus are more detestable. Even Reborn is more detestable than Mukuro, since he picks on weaker.
And also...what about Hibari's "kamikorosu-ing"? I know he is the disciplinary committee member/leader but he doesnt need to resort to uhhh...violence all the time >_> Well I guess he has to against delinquents. But he constantly makes threats to "kamikorosu" to Tsuna and Tsuna hasn't done much wrong...right? :(
Hisagi-Chan said:
AlanViBritannia said: Killed people which experimented on him? Swore to destroy Mafia because Mafia were the ones which killed his friends & family? How is that detestable?
so its an excuse to kill others? he's putting himself on the same level as them.
If this sort of thing happens to Hibari (if he has friends or family or anyone he cares about), I bet Hibari will probably the same thing as Mukuro would (just not with illusions though). Would you say that Hibari doesn't have any justification or excuse whatsoever to kill them?
Though I understand it's not good to kill other people, and Mukuro's decision to kill or get revenge will stoop him into their level. However, I don't think that really makes him a criminal. And I don't think he deserves to be detested for doing that kind of thing, but rather we should try to at least understand or acknowledge the pain and horror he went through (even if we detest him) ^^; I think in that situation, Mukuro could have probably either:
1. Get revenge and kill them. Who wouldn't want to kill anyone who took everything from them? And mess up his life, especially when it's not theirs to do so?
2. Simply give up and life will lose its meaning for him & the others. A very depressing and tragic life to live. If that could be truly deemed as "living" in the first place.
To summarize my long-ish explantion, I don't mind you hating on Mukuro because I don't have the power to change your mind about him. And he has done some detestable things to Tsuna and the others back then. However, I don't think his past life and horrible experiences (with those mafia people who experimented on him and others) should be used as a justification to say that he's a detestable person.
I think most people, if they were in Mukuro's shoes, would have done the same thing. And it's not like Mukuro and the other kids asked to be experimented on >_>
What would you have done if you were in Mukuro's shoes? Kill those mad mafia scientists and help you & your friends make a new life elsewhere? Or simply give up and allow those scientists to mess you up in your whole entire life?
Btw I apologize if I do sound a little harsh in some parts of my comment.
No, seriously I don't really like any of them THAT much, so I'll just pick one randomly... and my vote goes to the pieapple fairy. sorry hibari, but you don't have a hilarious nick-name.
AlanViBritannia said: So, Varia is Italian mafia and they are forgiven.
Mukuro is Italian Illusionist from Mafia. Is he forgiven now?
I didnt mean, that because they are Italian mafia they are forgive, but its just normal for them to kill.
even if he's now Italian Illusionist, it doesnt excuse his doings in the past.
sallym613 said: And also...what about Hibari's "kamikorosu-ing"? I know he is the disciplinary committee member/leader but he doesnt need to resort to uhhh...violence all the time >_> Well I guess he has to against delinquents. But he constantly makes threats to "kamikorosu" to Tsuna and Tsuna hasn't done much wrong...right? :(
Hisagi-Chan said:
AlanViBritannia said: Killed people which experimented on him? Swore to destroy Mafia because Mafia were the ones which killed his friends & family? How is that detestable?
so its an excuse to kill others? he's putting himself on the same level as them.
If this sort of thing happens to Hibari (if he has friends or family or anyone he cares about), I bet Hibari will probably the same thing as Mukuro would (just not with illusions though). Would you say that Hibari doesn't have any justification or excuse whatsoever to kill them?
tbh I dont even bother to read your whole comment and just answer that:
I didnt say it would be okay if Hibari would have done that, I'd just feel the same as I feel about Mukuro now.
if he had that much power, he should have been able to beat the scientists without killing them, even if they deserve it.
that aside, what about how he destroyed Lancia's family? what did Lancia and his family do? did they also experiment with Mukuro, Ken and Chikusa?
and what about the fightings against Tsuna and Co in the beginning?
Besides all his "kamikorosu-ing", he never killed. that aside, the fact that he's violent though being the disciplinary commitee president makes him different from all the boring presidents in other series^^
and also, he said kamikorosu to nearly everyone in the beginning, but did he ever kamikorosu someone?
You are contradictoring yourself.
The fact that Belphegor tried to kill [wasn's successful but he wanted to] his own brother out of jealousy, the fact that Xanxus tried to kill his adoptive father and the fact that Squalo did kill previous Sword emperor is just fine like that because "they are Italian mafia"?
If that is so, Rokudo should be even more forgiven, since he is the REAL italian mafia member, as he was born in Mafia family. Belphegor is a Prince of a distant country, he originaly had nothing to do with Mafia. Xanxus was adopted, he is just a cast-off.
So, Rokudo should have the protection of being Mafia member.
Rokudo Mukuro had the worst childhood there is in the series. And because of that childhood, he is what he is. You can't just say that the fact he and his friends [which were all very young at that point] being experimented upon is not a justification for Mukuro killing whole Estraneo family. Of course it is. What would have happened if he didn't do so? Scientists would flee from the family, lay down and in few months start operating again in black market, making even more innocent victims. Is that better than what Mukuro did?
Yes, I can't justify what Mukuro did to Lancia's family. I can somehow understand, since for his whole life Mukuro was troubled by mafia [Estraneo was trying to exploit him and other mafia families were trying to exploit Estraneo], but I can't forgive him since Lancia's family did nothing wrong. At least, I don't remember them doing anything wrong.
What he did to Tsuna? Oh, it's just violence, he didn't kill anyone, it's not big deal. I mean, if Hibari can use violence all the time and that only makes him cooler, than Rokudo shouldn't only be forgiven for his doings against Tsuna, but should also be praised.
And let us not forget that Mukuro saved many people. First being his family members Ken & Chikusa, and then M.M., Chrome, Bloody Twins. They would all be either dead or really fucked up if there wasn't Mukuro to guide them.
On note of which bad things Hibari did, we can say nothing, since Hibari is the shallowest character ever. I mean, I am not even sure if he has parents, or if he just grew from the tree, since he has no character development or character background whatsoever.
AlanViBritannia said: So, Varia is Italian mafia and they are forgiven.
Mukuro is Italian Illusionist from Mafia. Is he forgiven now?
I didnt mean, that because they are Italian mafia they are forgive, but its just normal for them to kill.
even if he's now Italian Illusionist, it doesnt excuse his doings in the past.
sallym613 said: And also...what about Hibari's "kamikorosu-ing"? I know he is the disciplinary committee member/leader but he doesnt need to resort to uhhh...violence all the time >_> Well I guess he has to against delinquents. But he constantly makes threats to "kamikorosu" to Tsuna and Tsuna hasn't done much wrong...right? :(
Hisagi-Chan said:
AlanViBritannia said: Killed people which experimented on him? Swore to destroy Mafia because Mafia were the ones which killed his friends & family? How is that detestable?
so its an excuse to kill others? he's putting himself on the same level as them.
If this sort of thing happens to Hibari (if he has friends or family or anyone he cares about), I bet Hibari will probably the same thing as Mukuro would (just not with illusions though). Would you say that Hibari doesn't have any justification or excuse whatsoever to kill them?
tbh I dont even bother to read your whole comment and just answer that:
I didnt say it would be okay if Hibari would have done that, I'd just feel the same as I feel about Mukuro now.
if he had that much power, he should have been able to beat the scientists without killing them, even if they deserve it.
that aside, what about how he destroyed Lancia's family? what did Lancia and his family do? did they also experiment with Mukuro, Ken and Chikusa?
and what about the fightings against Tsuna and Co in the beginning?
Besides all his "kamikorosu-ing", he never killed. that aside, the fact that he's violent though being the disciplinary commitee president makes him different from all the boring presidents in other series^^
and also, he said kamikorosu to nearly everyone in the beginning, but did he ever kamikorosu someone?
You are contradictoring yourself.
The fact that Belphegor tried to kill [wasn's successful but he wanted to] his own brother out of jealousy, the fact that Xanxus tried to kill his adoptive father and the fact that Squalo did kill previous Sword emperor is just fine like that because "they are Italian mafia"?
If that is so, Rokudo should be even more forgiven, since he is the REAL italian mafia member, as he was born in Mafia family. Belphegor is a Prince of a distant country, he originaly had nothing to do with Mafia. Xanxus was adopted, he is just a cast-off.
So, Rokudo should have the protection of being Mafia member.
Rokudo Mukuro had the worst childhood there is in the series. And because of that childhood, he is what he is. You can't just say that the fact he and his friends [which were all very young at that point] being experimented upon is not a justification for Mukuro killing whole Estraneo family. Of course it is. What would have happened if he didn't do so? Scientists would flee from the family, lay down and in few months start operating again in black market, making even more innocent victims. Is that better than what Mukuro did?
Yes, I can't justify what Mukuro did to Lancia's family. I can somehow understand, since for his whole life Mukuro was troubled by mafia [Estraneo was trying to exploit him and other mafia families were trying to exploit Estraneo], but I can't forgive him since Lancia's family did nothing wrong. At least, I don't remember them doing anything wrong.
What he did to Tsuna? Oh, it's just violence, he didn't kill anyone, it's not big deal. I mean, if Hibari can use violence all the time and that only makes him cooler, than Rokudo shouldn't only be forgiven for his doings against Tsuna, but should also be praised.
And let us not forget that Mukuro saved many people. First being his family members Ken & Chikusa, and then M.M., Chrome, Bloody Twins. They would all be either dead or really fucked up if there wasn't Mukuro to guide them.
On note of which bad things Hibari did, we can say nothing, since Hibari is the shallowest character ever. I mean, I am not even sure if he has parents, or if he just grew from the tree, since he has no character development or character background whatsoever.
SnG did a much better job at defending Mukuro than I did.
Like SnG, I don't believe Mukuro is justified in hurting and killing Lancia's family. But he has gone through a lot and I think his mentality or attitude (towards others) got pretty messed up (thanks to the horrible life he endured under those scientists). Well basically, he became more cynical and bitter as a result. And maybe mentally unstable as a child. If Mukuro didn't have to go through those conditions, I think he would have been a much better person.
And Hisagi-chan, I'm probably being a bit harsh on Hibari. And maybe he's not as violent or "horrible" as I perceived him to be. However, just because he doesn't kill doesn't necessarily make him any more likeable. Like SnG, Hibari really lacks character depth, so there's barely anything that makes me want to hate or love about him oO. The fact that Hibari barely has any complexity to him kind of annoys me a little. I used to like Hibari a lot, but without much needed character development, this could only last for a very short amt. of time.
Therefore, I don't think either character necessarily has something that makes them more likeable than the other. However, I think Mukuro's past, personality and his actions all together make him more memorable as a character for me personally.
I'm not saying that Mukuro has the best character development or whether he's actually a good guy right now or not. He's not there yet, but I think he's getting there. And I believe he has the potential (if he chooses to) to change into a better person. I don't think we should ignore his past crimes or anything, but I think we should also acknowledge all of the things that he has done to help Tsuna and the others.
The inner sea of the planet. The platform of the watchtower. From the edge of paradise you shall hear my words.
Your story shall be full of blessings. ━Let only those without sin pass. "Garden of Avalon"!
While I was checking my profile, I saw a comment about the updates in the club. And as I clicked the spoiler button, I knew that the semi-final's up already. XD I don't know why but I got really excited. =_=" Then, *dang* it's Mukuro vs. Hibari. I wasn't really surprised but I wasn't expecting this match either. I don't like Hibari, and even though my dislike for him has lessen a bit, I would still not vote for him. So, Mukuro all the way~ 8D
But, I didn't expect that there will be a big gap between them! :O