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Poll: Tiger & Bunny Episode 18 Discussion


Jul 31, 2011 2:29 PM

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IceAndCream said:
purplegem7 said:
Bunny says he wants to quit before Tiger even has the chance to say so, lol


Yeah, really. Way to go, Kotetsu. Now #1 dad is back in the doghouse!


I was looking forward to seeing him pull through and retire. I loved the episode, but i was disappoint he didn't get to, and that they made Barnaby ignore him completely when it tried. That is the oldest trick in the book.
 
Jul 31, 2011 2:51 PM

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Season 2 - Tigerette

Hurp but anyways Kaede OP NEXT abbility much? Basically like Rogoue from X-Men. But regarding Barnaby...I think we all know killed his parents and I have an idea where they're going to lead this meomory problem
 
Jul 31, 2011 3:24 PM

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That's it, I want a spin-off (or OVA) that has Kaede as main.
 
Jul 31, 2011 3:45 PM

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Torisunanohokori said:
megalomaniageek said:
I don't like the android theory. It's just not good storytelling; it's better to have a parsimonious twist that a clever viewer could deduce, like Maverick being the real mastermind or Jake not having done the murders (since some of us noticed he lacked the tattoo on the right hand, and personally I was suspicious of Barnaby suddenly remembering the killer's face after having forgotten for so long).
My theory is that Maverick (or somebody in his employ) is a memory tamperer NEXT, and that's what's responsible for Barnaby's changing memories. (Ironically, the events could actually play out in reality with perfectly mundane manipulation, but not enough people know what cognitive scientists do about memory to apply it in storytelling without pissing off the audience. Reality is unrealistic, as TV tropes says.)

ETA: Also, judging by Cis, the robots aren't good enough at human interaction to effectively fool anybody who spends a considerable amount of time with them; Bunny is totally human in a way Cis clearly wasn't from the start. At least to those who are a bit sharper and more observant than Keith.


I disagree that it's not good storytelling. The best kind of twist is one that the audience doesn't see coming at all, but is surprisingly obvious in hindsight. And there are things about Barnaby's lifestyle and personality that click fairly nicely with the robot theory once you examine him again under that lens.

The fact that Cis wasn't that advanced in the dialogue department could easily be put down to the fact that she was the product of one guy gone rogue, and was known to be malfunctioning from before we first met her. If, as I suspect, the brightest minds Maverick could hire went into building him, considerably more effort would have gone into programming a complex, believable personality.


I agree the different level can be explain by Cis not rely having the best tools and minds behind her.
I'm starting to believe that his parents might not even be dead and if he really is a robot then they most probably aren't but they are the ones who build him and simply put fake memories.

On the other hand there are things that discredit the android theory. First Bunny seems extremely emotional and even shows human characteristics like being exhausted and staff.
Also those rest champers seem like the perfect thing for some memory manipulation and we have incidents like that scientist that remembered him from when he was little and knew his parents along with Jake's ability to read his thoughts.
 
Jul 31, 2011 4:38 PM

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Of course there'll be some twist so Tiger can't quit immediately. Although I'm fairly confident he'll quit at the end.
Kaede's power is pretty sweet, but if she can copy the power of a NEXT she touches how did she get the magnetic power? Does Tiger's brother have that power? Or did I miss something that's completely obvious?

Anywho, I'm sad that Kriem died. She had a smashing character design.
 
Jul 31, 2011 5:05 PM

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Lol. Just when Tiger is #1 dad, he becomes a zero again -_-.


This is quite a plot twist. I never expected that there was someone else who murdered Barnaby's parents.

This is show is getting really good.
 
Jul 31, 2011 5:21 PM

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Teaching daughter how to be a kick ass hero > Dealing with android bunny.
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Jul 31, 2011 6:50 PM
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I thought Kotetsu would finnally rest... but now bunny is fucked....?????

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Jul 31, 2011 7:57 PM
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adamantine said:
Oh god, I hope they're careful with Kaede's powers. I do not want her turning into Peter Petrelli.


Lol, THIS.

Methinks Barnaby killed his parents, and later had his memory edited by Maverik.
 
Jul 31, 2011 8:38 PM

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If Kaede's power is to copy another power, maybe the one who murdered Barnaby's parents could copy someone's appearance and therefore, get away with it? Or, Barnaby is in such a hurry to find the killer and close that chapter of his life that he unconsciously stamped a random face (e.g. Jake) as the killer, which explains why he started seeing other faces after Kriem proved Jake's innocence.

Kaede should call Children's Aid and get a father she deserves...
 
Jul 31, 2011 9:06 PM
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I posted the same on the thread about Barnaby being a robot, it would not make sense to Jake to read his mind, besides what about when he drank with Kotetsu while taking care of the major´s son.
The creator of Cis, he remembered Barnaby, so its not only the maid and Maverick, but someone else who, to me, looks unrelated and against this interest to stop the androids that half the people here chalk to Maverick
Barnaby went to the Hero Academy, OMG! more people that remembered him! besides with all the coverage someone must have found about a made up past dont you think?

I dont have al the episodes at hand at the moment but if someone is rewatching the episodes I have some things I would like to verify:

When Baranaby recalled the face was after having seen Jakes picture, the profile indicated which leg had he lost? he recalled Jake with the prosthetic. Was there any other detail that he maybe recalled but not possible for him to know?

On the episode where Jake chooses Barnabys card, the Tatoo was not there right? was it seen in any other scene like when he was in prison or out of it?

If it was not, is admirable how people go out of their way to make up certain theories yet nobody noticed that.

To me those details that slipped me like back then when Jake Called Kotetsu by his name show one of 2 things:

-The Production in all regards has been well laid with good planning and special care in details.
-The producers and studio have the liberty to retcon everything with the advantage of the anime being the original material.

It would be funny if someone at the studio or somwherelse noticed the lack of of the Tatoo or Jake calling Tiger by his name, tipped the writers and they retconned.

One las t thing, if Kaede was hoovering last ep, who was she copying then?
 
Jul 31, 2011 9:47 PM

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Agh fucking hell, rebounded back to the Ouroboros plot.. That's been beaten to death in this anime, why bring it back... I'd rather much see character development between Kaede as a NEXT and Kotetsu with her in the country... 3/5 episode.
 
Jul 31, 2011 10:23 PM

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So how many people were really expecting Kotetsu to be able to retire to the country in episode 18 of 25? I think we all knew that something was going to screw it up. On the other hand, the situation with Kriem has opened up a lot more plot to be developed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kaede come to the big city, get in trouble, and have to be rescued by her dad. This would also give her a chance to meet Blue Rose, suss out the situation and beat Kotetsu about the head severely until he realizes that BR has a romantic interest in him.

As for the reappearance of the Ouroboros arc, now that we know it is an organization of NEXT attempting to overturn the power structure, that suddenly means that any NEXT could be a member. (My nomination for the secret grand master--someone nobody would suspect--is Rock Bison!) This provides for a great deal of suspicion sowing over the next couple of episodes. It's not just Maverick or the soft-spoken engineer, or brown-haired ubiquitous girl--anyone could be a member.

And how is Lunatic going to be wrapped into this? He clearly is a major loose end that needs to be tied up. Lots of material for the last seven episodes.
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Jul 31, 2011 11:59 PM
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I'll tell you why the android theory is bad storytelling. You dont write a story just to tell a twist, you fit the twist into a story. Fine, so Barnaby is a android..then what? This is going to be I, Robot? Is Wild Tigers black friend actually will smith? Maverick is actually controlled by robots, his parents arent actually dead...blah blah blah? People will then say this, "man, Tiger and Bunny was such a good show...until they pulled this sci-fi crap." Anyone can just come up with an unforseen twist....cause there's an infinite amount of twists. Writing stories is like making babies...its not the conception...it's the raising that's a b*tch.

An example of just how hard it is to completely incorporate a twist into a story...Death Note. The death of character X was the best and worst thing...cause nobody saw it coming, but the rest of the series just turned into a battle manga, cause they couldnt turn the story around. Ever of heard of M. Night shamalayn? It's not what you right...it's how you write it. A series is 26 episodes....not 15 sec of fame.
 
Aug 1, 2011 12:50 AM

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He's seen some shit.
 
Aug 1, 2011 1:09 AM

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Interesting how things are going.
 
Aug 1, 2011 1:31 AM

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I would like to present a new theory. I think Bunny could have another power: some sort of precognition. It showed Jake as the murderer because he was a source of clues that Bunny should seek. Now it's showing new clues.

MorningGlory said:
somehow the past story on Jakes & Kriem remind me of X-men.


Jake went all Magneto on us. Kriem's past was also well developed. We just need to see Jake's. And Jake kinda looked like Speedwagon. The guy has got style, I'll give him that.

adamantine said:
Oh god, I hope they're careful with Kaede's powers. I do not want her turning into Peter Petrelli.


She'll probably be like Peter after he got his powers back. If she was like Peter at the beginning she would be too overpower.

Tiger wants to retire but can't. It's the classic action duo setting. The old cop that wants out and the new guy.

Rose being Tsundere and everybody messing with her was funny.

And I'm glad we've got problematic Bunny back. That nice guy version was very lame.

Does anybody know where to find a subbed version of the Drama CD?
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Aug 1, 2011 2:15 AM

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m4rc0 said:

And Jake kinda looked like Speedwagon. The guy has got style, I'll give him that.


Can't un-see. However, I originally thought he looked like Alex from A Clockwork Orange.
 
Aug 1, 2011 3:16 AM

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Oh god. I love plot twists! I'm starting to think that the culprit has a memory manipulation power or something like that or like Origami Cyclone's shapeshifting power to frame Jake. I'm also thinking about Maverick being related to the Ouroboros too. And they'll probably need Lunatic's help in the later episodes. And wow, Kaede's power is pretty cool. :D

This show is getting better and better!

Oh and the Barnaby android thing is unbelievable IMO. Like what others said, why can Jake read his mind? And why can he grow up? I highly doubt he's an android. :/ But memory tampering however, is possible.

My speculation on how T&B would end:
Kaede goes to the city,she meets Maverick and shaked his hand or something like that,discovers Maverick has some kind of power that could have something to do with the murder,Kaede tells Kotetsu and Barnaby,T&B confronts Mave,Mave tells secret,fight,end.

o_o
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Aug 1, 2011 3:23 AM

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Kaede's power was just awaken, and is out of control.

What?? The one Bunny thought of killing the parents was not the one?? And was with that woman??
Modified by tsubasalover, Aug 1, 2011 3:34 AM
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Aug 1, 2011 5:56 AM

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Barnaby an android? That's just downright stupid.
Forget Jake reading his mind. There have been plenty of times when Barnaby was getting beaten around. Now isn't it odd that no one commented on it feeling like they were punching steel? Hit an android and it would barely move. Plus while I don't have the whole series on hand to search though there must have been one point where Barnaby was bruised or bleeding. That just kicked the android theory out of the water. Not even sunrise could pull a plot twist that dumb.

Manipulated memory or a murderer with power to change forms is more likely. Or possible Barnaby is just bat-shit crazy.

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Aug 1, 2011 8:10 AM
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Another thing that always bothered me was that Jake did not needed a gun to kill people, so thats another point to the "Jake is innocent of that" theory.

I think that the fire will also play a part at the reveal.

AidanAK47 said:
Barnaby an android? That's just downright stupid.


I didn't wanted to be that blunt, but thanks for wording it out, lol.
 
Aug 1, 2011 10:18 AM

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AZ_VAL said:
Another thing that always bothered me was that Jake did not needed a gun to kill people, so thats another point to the "Jake is innocent of that" theory.

I think that the fire will also play a part at the reveal.

I knew immediately, that Jake was not it from when his file was shown. He really did not look like *that* kind of killer, he seemed more psychotic.

AidanAK47 said:
Barnaby an android? That's just downright stupid.

I still do not understand where that idea came from, but whatever floats their boat.
 
Aug 1, 2011 10:33 AM

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Kaede's power is a really amazing one. I'm pretty sure she's the strongest NEXT in the series so far (if she retains all the powers, which I think she does).

The Jake/Kriem backstory was pretty boring. I knew it couldn't be Jake after all. The way they finished that arc off so cleanly didn't feel right. Maverick definitely manipulated Barnaby somehow.

Poor Tiger probably won't be able to retire till episode 24/25. He's doomed to forever be hated by his daughter.

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Aug 1, 2011 11:06 AM

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Thought could be good and then...WTF robot ? loool That's not cool.

Anyways this ep had no action but had some major plots that'll bring up lot's up questions. So it was really good and a important plot.

I liked Kreme's story. quite ordinary but still. Jake looked like Kreme's fashion. lol
So she imitated Jake's cloth style. =] I prefer Jake's black suit fashion. His latest fashion is soo armpit hair. lol

Jake Sama !! lol

Seems like That black and red cloth with diamond , heart and all those card shapes are official uroborus suit.



It was scary how Kreme started to pull off those injection stuffs to die but didn't liked the weird head twisting move when she said Jake didn't kill his parents.

BTW kotetsu's power is handlet whatever. A superman physical thing.

She must've got that power by hugging her dad Kotetsu but how did she get that magnetic power ? Could it be Kotetsu's older brother is about to gain magnetic power !?? LOL

Kotetsu's mother keep on saying Kotetsu to tell Barnaby and Kotetsu saying "It'll be a good time for a coming out." is soo yaoi. XD

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Aug 1, 2011 11:26 AM
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The fact Kotetsu's brother figured out the copy ability thing indicates that he may know from who she got the magnetic power and that she touched that person, it may be from himself, after all seem to be a genetic thing and that power as shown is not that useful, unless it is what allowed her to fly on ep 17.

Regarding Barnaby's memory, I think that it may also be something he can not deal with, like one of their parent killing the other and commiting suicide or himself killing them by accident, hence he made up the killer to avoid the guilt, helped by Maverick,who could have placed the bullets after they were dead.
 
Aug 2, 2011 2:56 AM

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First of all let me say at the following,

Holy crap Kaede! A NEXT power that copies other NEXT powers for a non-disclosed amount of time!
That must be like the craziest NEXT power ever.

Episode 17 and 18 being EPIC Kaede of whom I always valued and now value at #1 despite her having very little on average in the series. I liked her facials and appearance in the spoiler
Oh man she has problems controlling her powers in regards to taking a cup to drink, only to have Wild Tiger’s powers and break the cup as well as the poor vintage table! O_o Kotetsu might punch me but I will punch at least once Tiger for being a stupid moron with the promise he made with Kaede. That was dumb of not simply explaining her the real problem.

That being said above, Barnaby looks nuts as follows,

He is totally losing it with fake faces of himself on the murderer.

Amazing episode! Since #16 I am totally hyped and looking just more forward till next episode.

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Aug 2, 2011 6:37 AM

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what if nobody killed his parents, because he never had any and they were all just illusion?
haha nah i don't really think that, i really don't know what is happening.
 
Aug 2, 2011 9:36 AM

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Dangerr said:
Can't un-see. However, I originally thought he looked like Alex from A Clockwork Orange.


Speedwagon was based on Alex.
 
Aug 2, 2011 3:53 PM

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Lol wow, Jake's not the murderer after all XD Interesting Kriem backstory ... I guess ...? :P
Wow Kaede can COPY POWERS?! That's way too awesome. It has to be that the first one goes away, or else she'd have like a MASSIVE amount of powers to choose from :O Ah, poor Kotetsu, he's doomed to be hated by his daughter forever lol XD Plus lol @ Barnaby saying he's gonna quit first ... ah, that sucks man :P He's going crazy too lol with that memory of his ... I don't think he's a robot though gaiz ... O_O
 
Aug 2, 2011 8:17 PM

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Cydonia said:
Pfft, robot.
I find mind-altering to be a more plausible explanation.
Going with that theory; You wouldn't have to create an android to accomplish what Maverick did, as people are especially easy to manipulate and take advantage of when they're cornered, also considering Bunny's young age - it must've been too easy; and therein comes the theories of memory manipulation.
It could also come in forms of hypnosis/drugs - or even NEXT powers; wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case with Maverick.
Needless to say, the plot thickens.
argh it's killing me
Whoa whoa! Hold on!
What if the real Barnaby is dead and this person is a
Clone!

Can it be possible? Screw the robot thing for various reasons but what about cloning. Original Barnaby may have had NEXT powers and cloning may have been the only way to replace him. It's possible all the people in the household may have been killed. Barnaby may have fake memories and that's why he can't remember things right.

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Aug 2, 2011 10:53 PM
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^That would explain why he was spared.
Wasn't Kriem's NEXT aura also orange? Because it was blue in the flashback.
 
Aug 3, 2011 1:57 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:


So far we haven't been clued into the biotechnology of their world, so although possible - it'd need to be more convincing or at least hinted at some point; unless they're pulling a deus ex machina on us by the end. /Do not want~

On a second note;
The android plot might be applicable in a different way, as it's been shown before (Cis) and is still relevant to Barnaby's parents - but Barnaby being an android is still a big stretch.
 
Aug 3, 2011 5:14 PM
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Who did Kaede touch that has magnetism powers...? Uncle or Grandma... ?
 
Aug 3, 2011 9:04 PM
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The questions about what is Lunatic's role I think is quite clear. You have the good guys in the Heroes. The Bad guys in Oroborous. Then Lunatic as the in between of not being evil, but also not being good. I'm sure he will have a pretty big role in the end, but will come up short to the Heroes.

I think it will be interesting to see how much of Oroborous we learn about. Kriem said it was huge and they were just a small package of it. I'm still convinced Maverick is the leader behind it all, but it will be interesting to see if there are any surprise members
 
Aug 5, 2011 2:47 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
Holy crap Kaede! A NEXT power that copies other NEXT powers for a non-disclosed amount of time!That must be like the craziest NEXT power ever.
Good morning, Peter Petrelli... 'Heroes' much?... what else is 'new'...

And if Bunny-chan is really a robot... this is the worst ever. They're trying to kill this show? Cause if they are, I think they might just have succeeded in this ep. I just didn't expect such sharp turn for the worst, starting from Kaede's power and Bunny's, um, possible inhuman nature... whoever wrote those twists, should really stop watching stuff like Heroes, X-men and the like 24/7 to derive thetr inspiration from... argh.
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Aug 5, 2011 1:20 PM
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I never really got the impression that there was anything wrong with Bunny, so I'm not really buying all these android theories and whatnot. I was pretty much facepalming the whole time when Bunny was complaining about his memory. First off, you couldn't remember Jake's face until his arc started. Why all of a sudden is your memory supposed to be the pinnacle of reliability? Additionally, memories don't work that way. Humans by nature don't remember things accurately. Something like a face from 20 years ago can't be reliably remembered by any means. With that in mind, the strangeness going through Bunny's head seems perfectly natural.

Kaede's powers will either be really interesting or really lame depending on the details and the execution. Very curious to see what they do with her.
 
Aug 11, 2011 9:36 AM

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LOL. We got some interesting theories here but I'm only looking at Bunny's mind is just unstable.

Anyway, we got to see Jake and Kriem's past which was good.

Bunny said that he should quit being a hero before Tiger can say so. lol

Kaede's power is to copy another power?? DO WANT!!!
 
Aug 16, 2011 12:29 PM

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Things are still WAY too f*cked up for Tiger to be retiring just yet. And Mr. Maverick is WAY too conveniently close to Barnaby's crucial early life events. I'm putting my giant suspicion spotlight on Mr. Maverick.

 
Aug 31, 2011 1:25 PM

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Tiger shown some intelligent in this episode, revealing that Jake right hand doesn't have the tattoo, but clearing Jake of bunny parents murder? Now Bunny going back to his old mind set of revenge... geez, just let it go already and move on.
 
Oct 13, 2011 4:14 PM

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Kaede has a cool power (i feel like Kotetsu should tell her that hes wild tiger its bothering me ~ )
And Bunny better not quit D':
 
Dec 27, 2011 8:16 PM

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Oh, nice that they're finally tying up that lose end with Kriem/Jake. I did think it was weird that they were so blase about her and Jake dying -- it turns out she's not dead. I guess that's a step up from them not giving a shit about Jake despite deciding not to kill him after all.

Anyway. Finally, the truth is revealed! Jake didn't kill Bunny's parents. It was obviously Maverick, although I'm still not sure why.

Kotetsu's really got it tough. How is he gonna quit at this rate? He feels obligated to help Bunny, but obligated to be with his daughter. Not sure when he's gonna get the chance to leave properly. Also he really needs to tell he that he's Wild Tiger. Why hide it from her in the first place? That stuff about not being able to tell her (presumably because of company policy) is bullshit because his mother and brother know, same with Blue Rose's parents. Why keep it from Kaede then? She would be a lot more understanding if she knew. Lazy writing is lazy.
 
Mar 15, 2012 2:25 PM

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Psshhh Tiger is taking a while to tell Barnaby about his problem. I can see this probably becoming a problem later on, damn.
 
Oct 25, 2012 7:07 PM

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Mormegil said:
1. Android
2. Memory tampering
3. Mental breakdown
I'd say it's both 2 and 3.
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Jul 3, 2013 6:11 PM

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excellent episode!

lol as usual Blue Rose is the one person that is eager to see Kotetsu back! XD



poor Kriem, must be rought being treated like that, especially her parents.



i already freaking knew Jake is not the killer, they're only a fraction of Ourboros. it would be too easy to kill him like that, plus he didn't use any guns at all.

though he's much badass with his black coat, his hobo clothes really sucks on him.

and lol Kotetsu can't even tell that he's finally retiring from all of this XD

as for Barnaby, it's probably mental tampering, since he it keeps changing whenever he tries to remember the killer

and wow did he just mental break down in the last scene O_____O



next episode is gonna be ace!!!!
 
Jul 4, 2013 11:17 PM
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If Barnaby turns out to be a robot, I'll be very disappointed. That would be so lame. Especially since Tiger is spending time he should be spending on his daughter to try to hold things together for Barnaby.

Cis was the product of one guy gone rogue, but that guy said he had advanced the design considerably from what was available when Barnaby would have left his parents robotics team.

I agree that having a character with unreliable memories turn out to be a robot is bad storytelling, especially when people have formed relationships with that character and sacrificed more important (than a robot) things to support the character. I also think it's bad storytelling to withhold information from viewers so that you can surprise them.

Like I said, if Bunny's a robot, I'll be very disappointed with this series.
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Jul 6, 2013 4:24 AM

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I kinda had a feel Jake wasn't it, he had the tattoo on his shoulder...not his hand.

With all those suggestions that Bunny might be a robot- I might end up breaking down- this would be the greatest disappointment!

I'm looking forward to the next episode now...
 
Jul 19, 2013 10:22 PM
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i bet its that old lady's cake she sends every year!!!! that would be a good way to slip him drugs!
 
Jun 19, 2014 5:58 PM

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Barnaby is kind of going crazy over trying to figure out who is the murderer. Kaede has got a pretty cool power too.
 
Aug 3, 2014 3:53 PM

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Great development, I really wonder what will happen next and when he'll manage to tell everyone that he'll be retiring!
 
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