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Poll: Steins;Gate Episode 13 Discussion


Jun 30, 2011 1:07 AM

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Suzu was kicking a$$ there.
Poor Mayuri :(
 
Jun 30, 2011 1:18 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
togeyanagi said:
In D-mail, Okabe shifted World Line, thats why things changed. But Time Leap Machine, he goes back in time but in the same World Line. That proves why Mayushi cannot escape her death.
Best simple logic expressed. Hence why I think Moeka should just be shot and die! :D Then that what causes the death of Mayuri is gone.


ANd incorrect logic.

WHat it takes to people to understand that its SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE THE PAST OF SAME TIMELINE and that d-mail and time-leap are exact same thing, its just what you send that differs.

hikaricore said:
Yumekichi11 said:
Also it would be impossible for all Suzuha may have to do is to touch Moeka and both are gone. They are therefore not the same person.


Again people are assuming pre-defined time travel "logic" without understanding how it works in this story. Exactly what proof do you have that a future version of ones self touching a current version of ones self would result in such cataclysmic events? This has been mentioned in a couple sci-fi movies and books over the course of history, but never backed by any evidence theoretical or otherwise. Stop regurgitating this garbage without a second thought and evaluate the possibilities yourself... That said I don't think they are the same person, but your thought process is crap.


In fact the theories in show DEFY the idea of something cataclysmic happening in that case, since if they both are suzuha, then they are different suzuhas from different verses and not the same suzuha.

DesolateOne said:
Fai said:
Let me explain it simply:
I travel to the past and kill my past self.
Past self as result does not travel into the past.
Then how could I travel into the past?
If i did not travel into the past, I could not have killed my past self.
If I did not kill my past self, my past self travels into the past
cue paradox.


That IS a paradox, but how about this?

Instead of me actually killing myself, let us say I maimed myself (let's say I end up in a coma) and thus could not send memories into the past.

I sent memories into the past and maimed myself.
As a result, past self did not send memories into the past.
What happens?

I'm simply maimed after having received my memories and now must live my life as such. I do not need my past self to send memories of myself to the past, as I have already done so once. No one but myself knows that I know what happens in the future.

What I'm trying to say is that it appears to have happened sequentially and not simultaneously. I received, and then I acted, and therefore I got the result. Not I received and acted and got the result at the same time, therefore did not send, thus not acted, and thus never got the result, (continues endlessly like your paradox).

It's like hitting backspace on a word. ie. "money". You send memories of to your past self and end up erasing it so it just spells "mone". There never was a physical time where you typed "money". You just remember being as such. The time in between was erased and begins at the time you received your memories.


Having said all that - truthfully, it's not said in the VN whether the time-leap causes a shift into an alternate world line or if it stays in the same one. My opinions are based on how I interpreted what happened in the game and the cause behind it. To me, it points to a single world line. Yes - what happens after the D-mail and time-leap does change the world, but you say it branches off into an alternate worldline while I say it stays in the same one.

Maybe if you continue watching the series until the end, your opinions may differ (or stay the same).


That would be nice and dandy except that it defies logics. Cause is happening before the effect and effect eradicates cause, just because from my pov the cause happened, it does not mean that it happens from the timeline's pov.Thus in the end the effect negates the cause, thus negating itself, thus having no reason to negate the cause.

If you travel to same timeline thus you are able to affect it, if you are able to affect it, you are able to affect what you do in future, if you are able to affect that, you are able to affect your travelling into the past, if you are able to affect that, cue paradox.
The one and only possible same-timeline travel would be the causality loop, in that your actions having traveled into the past(assuming you do not land in your past body that is) directly lead to the chain of probabilities that lead you to travel to the past in future in exact same way.

Your analogy about maiming would work if the world did not have a logical structure, however it does and thats exactly one of many reasons why time-travel as most common folk imagine it is not possible and the only possible way is to actually get into an alternate timeline past.

You can't "backspace" the same timeline, because doing so would backspace you doing that.
 
Jun 30, 2011 1:51 AM

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Fai said:
Yumekichi11 said:
togeyanagi said:
In D-mail, Okabe shifted World Line, thats why things changed. But Time Leap Machine, he goes back in time but in the same World Line. That proves why Mayushi cannot escape her death.
Best simple logic expressed. Hence why I think Moeka should just be shot and die! :D Then that what causes the death of Mayuri is gone.


ANd incorrect logic.

WHat it takes to people to understand that its SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE THE PAST OF SAME TIMELINE and that d-mail and time-leap are exact same thing, its just what you send that differs.
That's not the point it is more of the point that eliminate the cause that creates the effect hence Moeka herself. Kill her and there shall be no one that may kill Mayuri less there is another cause that makes this effect. If it is SERN itself then it may be a hard case to stop all this but nonetheless a solution certainly exists.
Fai said:
Hence the problem is the effect of Okabe affecting the cause itself, a mutation of it can only be attributed to the original cause of it all. The travelling but there is no logic in how it can be stopped so why would the world be logical if time travelling is not logical itself. Only the methods and calculations are. Trying to make sense but guess perhaps I may not be. Fai your explanations are rather chaotic but even that is part as a element itself in time traveling.

- BLOG - My Club- Easiest way to reach the rest of my thoughts!
 
Jun 30, 2011 2:04 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
That's not the point it is more of the point that eliminate the cause that creates the effect hence Moeka herself. Kill her and there shall be no one that may kill Mayuri less there is another cause that makes this effect. If it is SERN itself then it may be a hard case to stop all this but nonetheless a solution certainly exists.


The thing is, Mayuri's accidental third death seems to indicate SERN is NOT the root of the problem concerning Mayuri's death. Notice how she always dies at the same time, and the fact that her third death was not because of SERN. This implies that the universe is what is killing Mayuri. The universe is actively trying to kill Mayuri at the same specified time. In other words, it is fate or destiny. It does not matter the cause, but the effect. No matter what Okabe seems to do, Mayuri will die, whether its from SERN, or some other cause. The results will always be the same, it doesn't matter if the cause is changed.

And even if Moeka is killed, this doesn't deny the possibility of another SERN agent killing Mayuri.
 
Jun 30, 2011 2:53 AM

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cr4sian_phil said:
I don't think my heart can handle Mayuri dying again.


This, she's too cute to die........

btw most awesome episode in the whole series.......
 
Jun 30, 2011 6:07 AM

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harimasora said:
I just noticed Kiryuu Moeka and Amane Suzuha look like each other so much.

http://imageshack.us/f/52/amanesuzuhakiryuumoeka.jpg/

Could they be the same person?
Humm, I think someone would turn into jellyman if teleported to the past... but they are so very muck like each other!!


Hmmmmm... What about Kiryuu Moeka and Marise Kurisu cause their character design looks very similar.

Wasn't part-time warrior supposed to take Nae shopping or something? Could she be behind death #3? Seriously that train death was... ... ... That is not how you surprise someone...

D-mail and time leaping. D-mail changes the world lines, that's for sure. But time-leaping only changes it if the leaper does something s/he did not do before right?
So in essence they both change the world lines if Okabe does something different. Right?
 
Jun 30, 2011 6:14 AM

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So Ruka usually used the pronoun "boku" in the beginning episodes.

Then after D-Mailing the past and becoming a girl, Ruka started using 'watashi".

In this episode, Ruka used "boku" again.

Is that a slip or am I missing something?
El Psy Congroo
 
Jun 30, 2011 6:29 AM

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... Is this for real?

Are you all blind? Did you all not see how many blatantly obvious flaws were in this episode? How unbelievably, overbearingly stupid this was? This episode was a complete disaster, a train wreck. Seriously, one of the bad guys accidentally tripped a wire setting off a bomb in one of those trains. No wait, this was done on purpose. The bad guy purposely set the bomb alight for shits and giggles.

Why did Okabe not tell anyone what was going on? Why did he continuously run in dark pathways with not another civilian in sight? Why did he take Mayuri with him on any of the occasions, when the safest place for her to be is as far away from him as possible? Why not, for example, keep her at the shrine with Ruka? How did he manage to reach the lab the second time around when Mayuri was hit by the car? How does one hit knock all the Sern minions unconscious? There had to have been a least 30 seconds or so for Suzuha to have got into the lab and done her aforementioned amazing feat... What the hell were the minions doing? Just standing around dumb fucked? DUHHHHH HERP DERP!? What the hell was Moeka doing? Why did Moeka or Suzuha not shoot each other immediately when they had the chance? Nope gotta have those stupid stare-downs and let them say their final words, derrrrp. How did every single bullet from Moeka miss Okabe when they were setting the time machine up? Seriously, she's only like 5 feet away for fucks sake. Why the hell not use a taxi. Do they not bloody exist in Japan? Why not stay at a friggin police station for the night?
Why not bloody go back in time even further AGAIN straight after a time leap to increase the amount of time they have to escape? Lets say to about... Oh, at least bloody 2 days before! The time leap machine has been confirmed to work to at least 48 hours ago after all! And they can go back in time straight again afterwards once they do that for even more time! Seriously!
WHY NOT BLOODY TELL ANYONE WHAT THE FUCK WAS GOING ON!?!? No time? YOU HAD AT LEAST 3 HOURS, IN THE TIME YOU WERE TELLING THEM TO LEAVE WITH YOUR STUPID EXCUSES YOU COULD HAVE EASILY TOLD THEM THE TRUTH. NOT TO MENTION MY PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH, SHIT SON.

Not to mention, the time machine is the absolute only thing they have to change their fate. Leaving the time machine at the lab where Sern are going to be showing up at in a few hours... NOT A GOOD IDEA. If Sern reach the lab before Okabe does, or say Okabe escapes the city with Mayuri only to have everyone else get captured because they're just strolling around shopping or something instead of hiding because Okabe is a friggin idiot, or Mayuri dies at ANY TIME after Sern have ceased the lab and time machine, then LOL GG.

This series was really going somewhere too, and it all flew out the window in one episode. There is absolutely no way this show can redeem itself from this absolute trash of an excuse for drama and suspense. Even if it has it's great moments later on and a mind-blowing finale, this one episode will always remain as the maggot burrowing in the dish you were just enjoying. Why, just why...
 
Jun 30, 2011 6:34 AM

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Siing said:
Wall of tl;dr

"onoez, a single episode of a great anime series wasn't as good as the rest, it is now considered absolutely terrible."
Yes, this episode had some flaws, but they're easily overshadowed by the greatness of the rest of the episode. You should stop looking for the bad things, lay back and just enjoy.
 
Jun 30, 2011 6:39 AM

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Siing said:
Why not bloody go back in time even further AGAIN straight after a time leap to increase the amount of time they have to escape? Lets say to about... Oh, at least bloody 2 days before! The time leap machine has been confirmed to work to at least 48 hours ago after all! And they can go back in time straight again afterwards once they do that for even more time! Seriously!
Protip: It's hard to use a time leap machine before it's constructed.
They more or less finished it just that day where Okarin uses it. Unless I've completely gone and made a mess of my ability to measure time.
Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile.
Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(゚Д゚щ) Nope™, probably not.
 
Jun 30, 2011 6:52 AM

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STM said:

"onoez, a single episode of a great anime series wasn't as good as the rest, it is now considered absolutely terrible."

Yes, this was a great anime. The problem is this isn't episodic, each episode follows the last. If one episode messes up, one single episode, it destroys the rest, since every episode is one in a whole.

Oosran said:
Protip: It's hard to use a time leap machine before it's constructed.
They more or less finished it just that day where Okarin uses it. Unless I've completely gone and made a mess of my ability to measure time.

I've forgotten when they finished the time leap machine myself lol, but I think it was two days before the party. Even then, I believe there was something... What was it again... D something...? OH YEAH D-MAIL! HOW COULD I FORGET THAT HERP DERP. Or has that been thrown out the window too, now null and void...?
 
Jun 30, 2011 7:13 AM

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Siing said:
Why did Okabe not tell anyone what was going on?

In the situation, what will you do? Wasting time in explanation, or act as fast as possible to save your friend? Because she can be found and die anytime.
Siing said:
Why did he continuously run in dark pathways with not another civilian in sight?

Everyone of those civilian can turn out to be the guys who are after them. Better be careful with people passing by you.
Siing said:
Why did he take Mayuri with him on any of the occasions, when the safest place for her to be is as far away from him as possible?

Maybe because he hasn't realized it yet. Or, he wants to keep her close to him to be sure nothing happens because he's the only one who knows what is going to happen and can prevent it.
Siing said:
Why not, for example, keep her at the shrine with Ruka?

The agents are in the city.
Siing said:
How did he manage to reach the lab the second time around when Mayuri was hit by the car?

He escaped and reached the lab. Not everything has to be shown in details.
Siing said:
What the hell were the minions doing? Just standing around dumb fucked?

The moment the door was heard, she was already knocking them out. She's fast. No human have perfect, on-time reflexes.
Siing said:
Why did Moeka or Suzuha not shoot each other immediately when they had the chance?

To create suspense and a chance for escape xD.
Siing said:
How did every single bullet from Moeka miss Okabe when they were setting the time machine up?

It went fast, there was a smoke, even if you're shooting, you don't know where the person exactly is. You leave it to chance.
Siing said:
Why the hell not use a taxi. Do they not bloody exist in Japan? Why not stay at a friggin police station for the night?

Everyone can be an agent. What will they tell to the police? What about the next day? They have to go to the moon in order to be save xD.

I think that the D-mail will only change the world line but everything will happen again. So Okabe must prevent Mayuri from dying, not just jump from world line to another. The universe wants Mayuri dead ;_;.
Modified by bakuramariks, Jun 30, 2011 7:17 AM
“See the good in that which is evil, and the evil in that which is good.
Pledge yourself to neither side, but vow instead to preserve the balance that exists between the two.”
― Hayao Miyazaki
 
Jun 30, 2011 7:32 AM

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bakuramariks said:
The universe wants Mayuri dead ;_;.


Why do you say it like it's a bad thing?
 
Jun 30, 2011 7:51 AM

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I think Mayuri's third death was really stupid ! Think about it : even if that kid pushed her, Okabe was holding her hand ! Had he paid some attention, he could have pulled Mayuri back ! Or he could have held her hand more firmly and none of this would have happened.

Don't talk to me about character development if Kaizuka Inaho or Slaine Troyard are in your favorites.
 
Jun 30, 2011 8:00 AM

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SailorKagome said:
I think Mayuri's third death was really stupid ! Think about it : even if that kid pushed her, Okabe was holding her hand ! Had he paid some attention, he could have pulled Mayuri back ! Or he could have held her hand more firmly and none of this would have happened.


+1
Yeah I mean, as much as I like steins gate this episode felt nonsensical, just like some forced divine force would want Mayuri dead. (Sometime I love how gods think)
 
Jun 30, 2011 8:11 AM

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I interpret it differently. When Mayuri was pushed, Okabe probably would have followed her, because of the force. So maybe he, instinctively, loosened his grip so he doesn't die either. Or, judging by his calm expression when he was talking about the party, he loosened his grip because he was sure he will save her and they will live happily ever after.

But, yeah, god/s sure likes to troll xD.
“See the good in that which is evil, and the evil in that which is good.
Pledge yourself to neither side, but vow instead to preserve the balance that exists between the two.”
― Hayao Miyazaki
 
Jun 30, 2011 8:21 AM

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Siing said:
Why the hell not use a taxi. Do they not bloody exist in Japan?


Well, he used taxi in the VN... It didn't end well... Mayuri still died...
Never saw no miracle of science, that didn't go from a blessing to a curse
Never saw no military solution, that didn't end up as something worse
 
Jun 30, 2011 8:38 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
Few things I have noticed,
  • Notice in both times of Mayuri's watch it stopped at 7pm in the spoiler
    well I found out something about that number right here. Apparently it may hold some magical/manifesting value that I hold may have something to do with that tomb scene with Mayuri's grand-mother.

  • Mayuri's death was close 8pm. Once again tried to find something about the number and came into this source right here. The ifnity and cycle notions were very interesting considering that is exatly what Mayuri is going through.

  • I have tried to corellate Metaphysics whom information is here and Necrosis whom the information is here. Strangely enough I concocted something of Mayuri's presence being somehwat of a poison due to the whole necrosis state notion and also due to the sudden wall looking strange here. In any case IMO it may have something to do with Ergosphere notion. Where balck hole particles from Mayuri's soul are affecting the world and hence Moeka may have paranoia that they can kill Okabe since he is human but little does she know that Okabe already has those in his body.

  • Ever though what Rembrandt lighting is? Well it is rather interesting to see what is right here. A rather interesting technique in photography.


Some questions that would be nice to have answered,
  • I do wonder what that guy's symbol in the spoiler
    exactly means?


  • I don't understand how just by pulling something it made so much smoke in the spoiler
    what was that thing pulled out?
Yumekichi11 said:


Very interesting observations. :)
I don't know whether you are still watching or not, but I can at least answer for smoke.
Okarin used future gadget #4, super instant humidifier, The Moad Snake. It's made to look like a claymore mine.
It's one of the helpful future gadget :)!. In official future gadget website, it says the moad snake is disposable.
it can be used only once... and... it's 7800 yen.
http://futuregadget-lab.com/
4号 モアッド・スネーク 特価 7,800 円
超瞬間加湿器。大量の水を、多数の電熱コイルで沸騰させ、ものすごい量の蒸気を噴出させる。これで乾燥した季節も恐るるに足らずだ。クレイモア地雷そっくりなので装飾品としても有用だ。
※適用畳数・6畳。本未来ガジェットは使い捨てとなっております。
Rukako accidentally used it at episode 10. maybe you can watch it.

I don't know about SERN guy's tatoo. seems not so important, i think.

btw, there are no updates from official character twitter... ( : _ ; )
http://twitter.com/#!/futuregadgetlab
 
Jun 30, 2011 9:47 AM

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what the hell Mayuri is just keep getting killed no matter what Okarin do !!
 
Jun 30, 2011 10:11 AM

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It seems like fate really wants Mayshii to die xD After the car crash I already got the feeling that there is no hope for her anymore. Thought of the possibility of Okarin altering the timeline into a better and better solution each time he goes back (like, for example, next time aiming for the subway as an escape route again but standing more further away) but nah, I still somehow believe that this is it for Mayuri.

And well, to me it starts only seeming more and more evident that Suzuha is a warrior from the future, and indeed has had experience fighting SERN before (maybe in a world line where SERN has taken over the world?) That thought led me to wonder about her dad she was looking for, I just can't help but believe he has some large significance to the story. Baito senshi is one of my fav characters anyways especially now after showing some battle skills <3 xD
 
Jun 30, 2011 10:51 AM

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Eetscha said:


And well, to me it starts only seeming more and more evident that Suzuha is a warrior from the future, and indeed has had experience fighting SERN before (maybe in a world line where SERN has taken over the world?) That thought led me to wonder about her dad she was looking for, I just can't help but believe he has some large significance to the story. Baito senshi is one of my fav characters anyways especially now after showing some battle skills <3 xD


Well duh, as we found out previous episodes, her dad is named Barrel Titor and Okabe is pen=pals with famous John Titor (seriously, go on wiki and look up this name, you will be surprised). Obviously its important.


SailorKagome said:
I think Mayuri's third death was really stupid ! Think about it : even if that kid pushed her, Okabe was holding her hand ! Had he paid some attention, he could have pulled Mayuri back ! Or he could have held her hand more firmly and none of this would have happened.


Probabilities. Chaos theory.

THere are thousands of factors affecting what and how it happens in our life. ONE smallest change can lead to the strangest probabilities increasing.


For example, you could send a dmail to your morning self to NOT eat breakfast and that somehow could theoretically lead to alien invasion.

A smallest change in the structure of system can HORRIBLY change the outcome, hence its the small things one should be wary of changing.
 
Jun 30, 2011 12:02 PM

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This episode unsurprisingly surprised me... again. It reminded me of "The Time Machine"(2002) movie, even if I watched just a part of it. To be more accurate it's about the inevitable death of Mayuri. This always was the one of the most mystic and interesting aspects of the time travel for me. Inevitable fate.
Hypno-girl said:
SailorKagome said:
I think Mayuri's third death was really stupid ! Think about it : even if that kid pushed her, Okabe was holding her hand ! Had he paid some attention, he could have pulled Mayuri back ! Or he could have held her hand more firmly and none of this would have happened.


+1
Yeah I mean, as much as I like steins gate this episode felt nonsensical, just like some forced divine force would want Mayuri dead. (Sometime I love how gods think)

I disagree. The inevitable fate matter... Haven't you heard of it?

Anyways... what's more stupid of Okarin, it is how he didn't contact with Suzuha at the very first time leap. Even if he's weirdo, I always thought he has is in fact genius, even not by graduating Quantum Physics. And still he can't think of how she knows so much... even if she kicked the crap out of SERN's guys. I'm sure that the only way to get rid of the SERNs now is to contact with her. Still, I don't know how will he escape Mayuri's fate =\
 
Jun 30, 2011 12:03 PM

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Well fuck.

So he goes back after she gets shot in the head BEFORE the party and BEFORE the bomb threat was announced..only to be in the place where the bomb threat was being taken part in, and fuck. I knew that was the wrong place for him to be in. Those bastards were waiting for him there.

Then, Mayuri gets killed by a car. Thus Okabe has to go back AGAIN.

He REALLY needs to not let go of her AT ALL, and have a strong, firm grip on her hand the entire time he's with her.

So she gets hit by the train and dies this time..I'm starting to get a little bit suspicious of that watch she has. Like, every time she says "Oh..my watch stopped working." something bad happens to her. I think Okabe needs to get rid of that watch altogether and just keep a grip on her.
 
Jun 30, 2011 12:09 PM
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Meritas said:
This episode unsurprisingly surprised me... again. It reminded me of "The Time Machine"(2002) movie, even if I watched just a part of it. To be more accurate it's about the inevitable death of Mayuri. This always was the one of the most mystic and interesting aspects of the time travel for me. Inevitable fate.
Hypno-girl said:
SailorKagome said:
I think Mayuri's third death was really stupid ! Think about it : even if that kid pushed her, Okabe was holding her hand ! Had he paid some attention, he could have pulled Mayuri back ! Or he could have held her hand more firmly and none of this would have happened.


+1
Yeah I mean, as much as I like steins gate this episode felt nonsensical, just like some forced divine force would want Mayuri dead. (Sometime I love how gods think)

I disagree. The inevitable fate matter... Haven't you heard of it?

Anyways... what's more stupid of Okarin, it is how he didn't contact with Suzuha at the very first time leap. Even if he's weirdo, I always thought he has is in fact genius, even not by graduating Quantum Physics. And still he can't think of how she knows so much... even if she kicked the crap out of SERN's guys. I'm sure that the only way to get rid of the SERNs now is to contact with her. Still, I don't know how will he escape Mayuri's fate =


well if something like that happen to someone they wont be calm to think the situation, he just want to save mayuri but i guess he will eventually make a plan to try solve the situation
 
Jun 30, 2011 1:18 PM

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Third time's the charm
 
Jun 30, 2011 4:21 PM

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I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet (im not going to go through 12 pages of comments) but obviously that world line (or watever they call it) wants Mayuri to die. So Okarin needs to use D-mail and change the world lines enough until she doesnt die. Seems simple enough...
 
Jun 30, 2011 4:59 PM

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Meritas said:
This episode unsurprisingly surprised me... again. It reminded me of "The Time Machine"(2002) movie, even if I watched just a part of it. To be more accurate it's about the inevitable death of Mayuri. This always was the one of the most mystic and interesting aspects of the time travel for me. Inevitable fate.
Hypno-girl said:
SailorKagome said:
I think Mayuri's third death was really stupid ! Think about it : even if that kid pushed her, Okabe was holding her hand ! Had he paid some attention, he could have pulled Mayuri back ! Or he could have held her hand more firmly and none of this would have happened.


+1
Yeah I mean, as much as I like steins gate this episode felt nonsensical, just like some forced divine force would want Mayuri dead. (Sometime I love how gods think)

I disagree. The inevitable fate matter... Haven't you heard of it?

Anyways... what's more stupid of Okarin, it is how he didn't contact with Suzuha at the very first time leap. Even if he's weirdo, I always thought he has is in fact genius, even not by graduating Quantum Physics. And still he can't think of how she knows so much... even if she kicked the crap out of SERN's guys. I'm sure that the only way to get rid of the SERNs now is to contact with her. Still, I don't know how will he escape Mayuri's fate =


I agree...I sort of understand why Okabe would look desperately for Mayuri the first time leap, since he was in shock after CERN crashed their party. But, he was definitely more calm the second time, so he should have thought about going to baito senshi for imformation seeing as she knows what's going on.

And while we're talking about weird things...how in the World did Okabe escape after Mayuri was killed by the car...there were like 5 CERN guys and that crazy Shining Finger girl there.

Anyways watched all the episodes in the last 2 days...great show.
 
Jun 30, 2011 7:45 PM

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This is the first S;G episode that not only mindblown me, but blown my mind and heart for this two days.

That flashback of Mayuri and Okarin is damn so sweet, and making all of Mayuri's death become more,and more painful.

That's a short,sweetest,and the best childhood memories that I've seen in anime. At least for me, S;G is the show that I'm seeking for. Dark drama, good sense of humor, good portion of sci-fi, and bittersweet romance/tight relations. What else can I expect?
 
Jun 30, 2011 8:07 PM

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Within a worldline there are infinite divergences. But there are also things dat have been pre-determined. Despite all the divergences, they will still funnel into a final outcome. Mayuri's death can't be prevented. He has observed her death. Okabe's very existence in this worldline kills Mayuri. Calm down and think Okabe... track back the chain of events so far... the man dat's outside the law of cause n effect... and time itself.

BioPi said:
And while we're talking about weird things...how in the World did Okabe escape after Mayuri was killed by the car...there were like 5 CERN guys and that crazy Shining Finger girl there.


If sum1 can KO this crazy Shininnnnng Fingerrrrr after being hit by a car... then yeah, the outrun is possible.


zeroyuki92 said:
This is the first S;G episode that not only mindblown me, but blown my mind and heart for this two days.

That flashback of Mayuri and Okarin is damn so sweet, and making all of Mayuri's death become more,and more painful.

That's a short,sweetest,and the best childhood memories that I've seen in anime. At least for me, S;G is the show that I'm seeking for. Dark drama, good sense of humor, good portion of sci-fi, and bittersweet romance/tight relations. What else can I expect?


Steins;Gate will be the best anime of 2011... if the anime team do it right.

But as I see it they got sum pacing problem in the last 2 epidoses... feel kinda rushed, n lost all the heart-stopping tension in regard to Mayuri's death scenes dat's in the VN. In return they has focused on the relationship between Okabe n Mayuri, yeah dat childhood flashback... I can't really say the anime team has gone in a wrong direction tho.
Modified by saka, Jun 30, 2011 9:23 PM
 
Jul 1, 2011 12:51 AM

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I'm one of those people who hate 12-14 year old kids shouting at the top of their lungs: OMGBESTANIMEEVAR! With that being said, I apologize to everyone in advance who are like me in that regard but:

BEST
EFFIN
SHOW
OF THE SEASON

With that out of my system...I don't really like that this show pulled off the "You can't save her, it is fate" rule. Bulls. In S;Gs universe it is possible to travel back in time as Okarin did, therefore altering the timeline (or creating a new one depending on your take on it) is also doable. I find it stupid that you can change the place of objects, memories (different dialogs) but when it comes to a person's life it suddenly can't be saved. Maybe it is just that I'm not religious but come on...I hope he finds a way to save her. Whatever happens, it was nice seeing her again, and her relation with Okarin, especially revealing the hostage thing, touching. 5/5.

I wonder if the posts are less spoilerific in this thread than in the previous ones, but I'm not risking it, not reading replies.

Edit: Forgot Part-Time Warrior. Maybe Okarin needs to fill her in on the events, seems like she could be a good opponent to Moeka.
 
Jul 1, 2011 4:11 AM

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h8sunshyne said:
mystik said:
wow that's depressing on the 3rd death scene. he just can't cheat fate yet.... hit by a train no accident? that is harsh. oh man the 2nd time, when he forgot about the bomb threat....

I don't know why he doesn't tell Daru and Makise? or at least tell the Suzuha who can actually fight.

the smart thing to do is GET AWAY FROM Mayushii. SERN is after him not her. so he needs to get the hell out, as do Daru and Makise. take the part time warrior with him as she is useful.

shit just got intense. so death count so far Makise 2 Mayushii 3.


Makise dies once, in the fist death scene. Or did I miss her dying anywhere else?
My mind is now f**cked.


Death count = 1 for Kurisu. That was not a fatal wound. If one is destined to die in a certain time of a worldline, he/she won't perish before the pre-determined time, no matter what. Don't underestimate the ability of the world to correct itself. And Kurisu is such an important figure to be dead...
 
Jul 1, 2011 6:07 AM

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I got spoiled,or at least get some clue that after two eps of mindfucks, this is once again,still the beginning.

I guess we could still many more shocks. For example, I guess the conspiracy theory is far from opened now. Something about Mayuri's death is also still intriguing for me, especially the third death. Something like they try to make it looks like "fated death", but we'll see.
 
Jul 1, 2011 8:22 AM

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kusushi said:


Thanks for the information. Yeah that's the thing I though it could be used once. Perhaps once then takes time to recharge. But dog at >_> my memory. You are totally right and reminded me well. Thanks.
Riga92 said:
Yumekichi11 said:
That's not the point it is more of the point that eliminate the cause that creates the effect hence Moeka herself. Kill her and there shall be no one that may kill Mayuri less there is another cause that makes this effect. If it is SERN itself then it may be a hard case to stop all this but nonetheless a solution certainly exists.
The thing is, Mayuri's accidental third death seems to indicate SERN is NOT the root of the problem concerning Mayuri's death. Notice how she always dies at the same time, and the fact that her third death was not because of SERN.
I though I observed a agent tripping Nae herself into Mayuri right before it happens we see someone pass by her closely.
Riga92 said:
This implies that the universe is what is killing Mayuri. The universe is actively trying to kill Mayuri at the same specified time. In other words, it is fate or destiny. It does not matter the cause, but the effect.

Since that is possible theorem then it goes back to the Ergosphere that being Mayuri's soul being in a black hole and taking some of its anti-matter. Should the Universe want that back, then certainly it may be trying into making her into a spirit so that it can retrieve that element directly from it. Who knows but it's plausible.
Riga92 said:
No matter what Okabe seems to do, Mayuri will die, whether its from SERN, or some other cause. The results will always be the same, it doesn't matter if the cause is changed.
That is really sad, there must be then another equation, perhaps give back what you have changed or taken from the Universe so it stops bugging you with constant death no matter the time period.
Riga92 said:
And even if Moeka is killed, this doesn't deny the possibility of another SERN agent killing Mayuri.
Fair enough. Man this a though case to crack. Seems I doing fine in understanding this my way.
Modified by Yumekichi11, Jul 1, 2011 8:31 AM

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Jul 1, 2011 9:02 AM

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I think ... what happened in this episode was something like "You can not change a chance like this." You can not change a chance that will occur in this linear world ... I think that might just change alter the linear ... the anime is getting better!
 
Jul 1, 2011 9:56 AM

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I think by the end of the anime we'll have a sort of ending like we did with The Butterfly Effect, where he goes back to the first day they met, and leave a terrible first impression so that they never become friends.
 
Jul 1, 2011 10:47 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
Fair enough. Man this a though case to crack. Seems I doing fine in understanding this my way.


When I think about it, it should be quite easy.

There are chains of events leading to Mayuri's death. Obviously as we see from these three world lines in this episode, just changing one of few things is not enough and the probability of Mayuri's death is still high.

Going by what is known as butterfly effect, Okabe might need to think outside of the box instead of trying to change the conditions of that evening - even if he changes the setting, there are still enough variables in the complex structure known as time, that lead to Mayuri's death outcome.

The fact that nothing changed in that evening all these times,that implies that he needs to make a BIGGER change in this whole thing to alter it. THat means that Okarin most likely has to search somewhere before that day(like someone suggested in this thread maybe make sure their friendship never began or something).

If he manages to leave a drastic enough impact upon timeline, IMO, the possibilities to Mayuri's death should diminish.

The problem is that time is one of the most complex unpredictable chaos systems to exist. Smallest things like newspaper being delivered at the wrong time can lead to an avalanche effect leading to even crazier outcomes not connected to that newspaper.

Okabe literally has no idea on WHAT and WHEN he should alter to create an alternate timeline with Mayuri's survival.
 
Jul 1, 2011 10:52 AM

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Fai said:
So your solution that is proposed is to never meet Moeka or perhaps never hack SERN?

Sometimes I think the Hydron Collider mechanics are chaos itself.

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Jul 1, 2011 11:35 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
Fai said:
So your solution that is proposed is to never meet Moeka or perhaps never hack SERN?

Sometimes I think the Hydron Collider mechanics are chaos itself.


When I think about it yes, those two things are possible.

The most feasible solutions are:
1) Never hack sern.
2) never even get their attention with any sort of time travel experiments.
3) never befriend Mayuri.
4) never be born

4th sort of falls away since that would still lead to dystopia, but other three are the only ways I could see this get solved.

Moeka is not the source of problems. Mayuri STILL dies even if she is not involved as we have seen. That alone for me implies that just getting rid of Moeka variable would not change thing.
 
Jul 1, 2011 11:47 AM

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Still pretty sure they are still using the (grossly naive imo) self-consistency principle.... such that events in the same timeline cannot be appreciably altered. He could prevent her death in a new world line with d-mail but she will always die in this current timeline no matter what he attempts to change.

I do also feel they have foreshadowed that he will sacrifice himself by never being born, through some twist of logic.
 
Jul 1, 2011 11:52 AM

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saka said:
Still pretty sure they are still using the (grossly naive imo) self-consistency principle.... such that events in the same timeline cannot be appreciably altered. He could prevent her death in a new world line with d-mail but she will always die in this current timeline no matter what he attempts to change..


Which would be good except for the fact that the show used many worlds theory for now.

And the fact that that theory itself is feasible and REAL, disproves the possibility of same-world travel, because travel itself would lead to a new line with you there in the past in that line.

So IMO, its just that there are way too many things/variables that lead to Mayuri's dead for Okarin's decisions in last 24 hours to change it.
 
Jul 1, 2011 11:57 AM

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They don't necessarily contradict each other, if different time travel methods are used. I agree it's stupid, but they seem to have taken that road, and it's inkeeping with the show's premise of exploring popular time travel theory.
 
Jul 1, 2011 11:59 AM

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Fai said:
Mayuri's dead for Okarin's decisions in last 24 hours to change it.

So, if it's that "mind blowing" let's just enjoy how Okabe will resolve this matter.

Of course in the usual story development baby steps. As we see in the preview of this episode...


and Before somebody starts screaming "spoilers" here's the official preview for episode 14.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri8-CcKmewc
(and I'm just saying what I've seen in the preview, but I already played the VN though)
Modified by saka, Jul 1, 2011 12:12 PM

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Jul 1, 2011 12:11 PM

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technically the preview isn't part of the episode, but hell I don't care anymore.... if you do watch it though, it does seem to suggest that
 
Jul 1, 2011 5:12 PM

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5/5 was epic


 
Jul 1, 2011 6:59 PM

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T_T

Stop killing Mayuri I keep on crying!
 
Jul 1, 2011 9:33 PM

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saka said:
Still pretty sure they are still using the (grossly naive imo) self-consistency principle.... such that events in the same timeline cannot be appreciably altered. He could prevent her death in a new world line with d-mail but she will always die in this current timeline no matter what he attempts to change.

I do also feel they have foreshadowed that he will sacrifice himself by never being born, through some twist of logic.


Exactly. Mayuri is doomed in this worldline. It's nothing to do with SERN nor the hacking nor whatsoever. Mayuri simply has to die. And I dun think dat Okabe will sacrifice himself. He won't be able to observe the outcome if he ceases to be. With his Reading Steiner, and a time machine at hand, he's already a demi-god. He can always try infinitely, as long as he doesn't do sumthing stupid, nor his mind breaks down. Yeah, it's all about what Okabe wants now. He can scarifice any1 else, only if he really is an insane mad scientist. It seems that he still doesn't realise what terrible power he had in possession.

Fai said:
Which would be good except for the fact that the show used many worlds theory for now.

And the fact that that theory itself is feasible and REAL, disproves the possibility of same-world travel, because travel itself would lead to a new line with you there in the past in that line.

So IMO, its just that there are way too many things/variables that lead to Mayuri's dead for Okarin's decisions in last 24 hours to change it.


In S;G, worldlines co-exist, but they aren't parallel worlds. They are simply possibilities. And only sum1 with Reading Steiner can observe them, one at a time. Any sort of time travel must create a divergence, despite how minor it will be. There's no return for Okabe. In his perspective, there must be a way to save his Mayuri, if it means to go against the world. Reading Steiner is a cruse. He can accept Mayuri's death and eventually gets over it as a normal person. Just not this Okabe.

Omg if we get our heads burying too deep into this scientific theories mess, we will likely miss the most important point of the series. Sumthing dat's ridiculous? Just assume it's the 1% fantasy, as they said. And enjoy the show.

P.S. Time leap machine has a limit of 48 hrs. And one can leap to the point before the machine's completion. You only need to wait till it's available again to use it.
 
Jul 2, 2011 7:12 AM
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this is episode is awesome i cannot get enough of time related stories like this
 
Jul 2, 2011 10:47 AM

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Kansokusha said:
In S;G, worldlines co-exist, but they aren't parallel worlds. They are simply possibilities. And only sum1 with Reading Steiner can observe them, one at a time. Any sort of time travel must create a divergence, despite how minor it will be.
That is what is meant by parallel universes (s;g uses the term "world lines" but same idea), that they are created from divergence as a rationalization to avoid the grandfather paradox and to attempt to explain relativity among other things.
 
Jul 2, 2011 1:38 PM

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saka said:
Kansokusha said:
In S;G, worldlines co-exist, but they aren't parallel worlds. They are simply possibilities. And only sum1 with Reading Steiner can observe them, one at a time. Any sort of time travel must create a divergence, despite how minor it will be.
That is what is meant by parallel universes (s;g uses the term "world lines" but same idea), that they are created from divergence as a rationalization to avoid the grandfather paradox and to attempt to explain relativity among other things.


That is only if we count time as something universal.

however if we count entirety of time, the infinity as one point happening at the same "time", then all those choices already happened and all those universes already created, just not from our point of view.
 
Jul 2, 2011 3:02 PM

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Plus Okabe so cute when she was younger and Rika seems to be male in this timeline, damn so it is a race to save her huh. I am glad I pick that one up, I think Mayuuri's time up Okarin.
 
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