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Subtitled/Subbed or English Dubbed anime (aka Subs vs. Dubs v2)

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#1
Apr 30, 2011 4:14 AM

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This is a replacement for the old Sub vs. Dub thread, which did little but promote hate and anger. In order to prevent that, and try to keep some sort of civil place to debate and discuss the core question, I am creating this new one.

It is, unfortunately, a topic that will never go away. It's an age old argument and will continue until the end of time, so we need to keep a centralised thread for people to (hopefully) read, and discuss their viewpoints on the matter. Note I said discuss. This is not a place for the vitriolic hatred of the “dubfags” or “weeaboos” back and forth trolling, that past threads have always ended up becoming, on this forum and most others.

I am not including a poll in this version, as it is meant to promote discussion, where people can share their thoughts on the matter, instead of simply voting for their preference and posting an unhelpful comment. If you want to view polled statistics, look at the old thread linked above. Trolling will not be tolerated. If you disagree with somebody's opinion, at least state why, and try to be at least somewhat polite about it. This thread will be moderated to make sure it can remain a civil debate.



To get the ball rolling, I will state how I feel on the matter; I speak Japanese, and started watching anime in Japanese decades ago. So it is the natural option for me, however I have a large dual audio DVD collection and generally take the time to at least give the English (American) dubs a chance for most series, so I have some comparative ground to stand on for recommending dubs to people who aren't comfortable with subs for whatever reason (which can vary quite a lot, from reading disability to colour blindness making subs hard to follow and so on). I don't want to recommend a dub I feel changed the entire mood of the show, as I will be unable to discuss the show with them from the perspective I watched it in.

Unfortunately quite a few American dubs do change the feel of a show, with strange localisation, and in extreme cases, the complete removal of Japanese culture (see Card Captor Sakura -> Cardcaptors) which I personally feel isn't the way to go. However some are hilarious in the differences, such as Those Who Hunt Elves, where the dub changes the show so much it's worth watching it twice, both in original audio, and the dubbed version, for completely different experience it offers. There are also cases where a dub can give characters more "fitting" voices, such as Hellsing (though Norio Anderson is still best) and Black Lagoon.

I've witnessed the sub vs. dub debate rage for a very long time, and it strikes me as strange that so many people are firmly in one camp or the other, with relatively little drifting in to the middle watching either or, or a bit of both, sans for major franchises that got a lot of people in to anime, such as Dragonball and Sailor Moon, which people will generally want to watch dubbed as it's how they remember it. I don't see why people can't be more open minded, and take individual shows on their own merits, instead of making blanket statements that all dubs suck, or people who watch subs are all weeaboos.



So, with the thread off to a new start, share your opinions, and please do try to use proper sentences and paragraphs, not just a few words. Minimalist posts, trolls, flaming and pointless comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders are quite likely to face bans.
Modified by Luna, Aug 1, 2013 8:58 AM
 
#2
Apr 30, 2011 4:19 AM

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In my opinion is sub usually (not always), better than dubs.
Why?

Cause its the original voices made by the same studio as the producer of the acutal animations, and it feels less like an anime to me if i hear english voices.

Hearing japanese voices (and enjoying it), is part of watching anime, just like how the artstyle is different from western cartoons.
Its a part of anime that shouldnt be altered.
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#3
Apr 30, 2011 4:34 AM

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...Yay for Nazified thread!

Dubs exists because there's people who watches them.

Subs exists because there's people who watches them.

As long as you're happy with what your watching I don't see why the need for such a debate is even needed. Too bad that as Asako has said, it will never go away.

Changeing the point of view of somebody else on the interweb isn't an achievement. 'Proving' somebody wrong isn't an achievement. Getting your two cents into the jar isn't an achievement. This is the internet. The internet is very sad face. Sad faces aren't happy. What you have is an opinion. The internet doesn't always happy face your opinion. What this is is a fact. The internet doesn't really care for facts, either.
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#4
Apr 30, 2011 4:38 AM
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I watch anime in via both ways, because I:

1. Have nothing against either language.
2. Aren't against English dubbing.
3. Know that said English dubs have progressed since their early days in the 80s and early 90s.
4. Don't despise the R1/R2/R4 industries.
5. Can read English.
6. Can speak English.
7. Don't speak Japanese.
8. Can't read Japanese.

The same flaws present in some old and low budget English productions when dubbing Japanese animation are mirrored in Japanese productions when they're handling Western animation. It's not something unique to U.S. and U.K. companies.

When it comes to certain companies, such as 4kids and Nelvana, their purpose is to provide For-TV content. That means, even if it's going to be given a DVD/BR release, if it's not allowed on TV it's probably not going to end up in the localised version. They may 'butcher' (in the case of Nelvana) and 'change' (in the case of 4kids) the subject matter in the anime, but you should be blaming the televised Code of Practice in whichever country it was localised to be broadcast in, not the companies themselves. 4kids has proven that, if it were a Direct-to-DVD company like FUNimation or Manga Entertainment, the content that it changed in anime like Yu-Gi-Oh wouldn't have been changed.

If you get used to one thing over the other, it isn't the company's fault you find their dub (English, Japanese, or other) 'weird', it's yours. There are cases in which an English dub is legitimately bad (not due to changes, but due to the voices themselves), such as the When They Cry: Higurashi English dub produced by Geneon USA, but most of the time it's not. It's just hate. I don't agree with that hate.
Modified by no-thanks, Apr 30, 2011 4:43 AM
 
#5
Apr 30, 2011 4:39 AM

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Arguing about Dub vs. Sub is like Nazism vs. Communism. If you like Dubs, then you are a Nazi! If you like subs, then you are a communist! If you like both? Then you are a Nazi Communist.

No matter how you argue about this, you are affiliated with one of those three ideologies and thus should be put in a concentration camp. Why? Because you are a rotten human being.

(There are some stuff I like in Dub. There are others I like in Sub. It's pretty much as far as 'Your mileage may vary')
 
#6
Apr 30, 2011 5:21 AM

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The only dub I have been satisfied with is the dub from .hack/
It's like.. all the girls sounds like Misty from Pokemon.
 
#7
Apr 30, 2011 5:49 AM

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DoubleDango said:
...Yay for Nazified thread!

^ LMAO!!!


If you take away the trolling, then all that remains is opinion. As DoubleDango said: Some prefer subs, others prefer dubs. It's unlikely that any stubborn people that read this thread will figuratively 'see the light' and convert to the other audio format, based solely on the well executed argument of another silver-tongued poster. If we're just doing a head count here, then the polls have already shown us that the majority watch subs only.


I actually started out watching strictly dubs. I saw Dragonball Z, which led on to Naruto (I know), which led on to Death Note. Out of curiousity of what happens next in Naruto, I was forced to watch episodes that hadn't yet been dubbed. It felt strange at first, but after a while I got used to it; like reading a book with interactive pictures. ^^' My fascination with Death Note at the time urged me to look into anime on a much deeper scale. I soon realised that the most interesting titles had never been dubbed, but having accepted the subbed Naruto, I gave them a shot regardless, and never looked back.

These days I prefer subbed to dubbed. I had a theory on the original thread about why this might be, which I'll put forward again below.


I speak English, and have done for over 20 years. Because we hear this language on a day-to-day basis, it's difficult for us to truly appreciate this audio in an anime. Suffice it to say; we're bored of English. On the other hand, being adept in English also awakens us to any 'poor performances' by their respective voice actors. It's easy for us to distinguish vocal tone and try to match it up with the character being portrayed. Those that speak English as a first language will have no trouble recognising a mismatch. Anime is very extravagant, so actors are always going to have a hard time getting that perfect sync with their often-unusual character.

Japanese is foreign to us. I think that's why it's so appealing. We don't have a firm grasp on their vocal tones, or whether their voices match their characters. We're not 'bored' of how the Japanese language sounds, because we haven't spent our entire lives around it. Simply put: We don't understand Japanese enough to criticise it. To us, Japanese is a break from English. It's a new audio that we crave simply because it's different, so it sounds 'nice'. ^^'

*Steps off the soap box.* :)
Modified by Setzuen, Apr 30, 2011 6:02 AM
 
#8
Apr 30, 2011 5:59 AM

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Dubs are awesome if Steven Blum is voicing an ultracool space cowboy or a flamboyant hip hop samurai, they're also acceptable if Maryke Hendrikse is shouting "fuck" every five minutes.

To be honest with ya I haven't seen enough dubs to judge but yeah, like subs there will be good ones but there will also be plenty of bad ones.
 
#9
Apr 30, 2011 6:03 AM

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I used to be more of a dubs-fan but since I started watching eps with subs more it kinda grew on me. I don't have anything against either of them, but these days I prefer subs over dubs since in most of the dubs the voices don't really match the characters. There's only a few that have those matching actors.

Sucks that the argument will never end, eventually things will be repeated in an endless cycle.
Haruhi is Haruhi, and no one but Haruhi!




 
Apr 30, 2011 6:03 AM

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I usually watch dubs if there avalible. Simply because It's alot easier to take everything in. But I usually go with whatevers easier to find (which are usually subs). Plus if there isn't a dub at the time I'm not going to wait.

So, as Ammish said 'Your mileage may vary'.



Mod edit: removed deleted quote.
Modified by Asako, Apr 30, 2011 10:05 AM
 
Apr 30, 2011 6:14 AM

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A new thread, eh?

I like dubs, and I will always watch an anime in both languages if I like the anime enough. (I mean, I'm not gonna sit there and rewatch an anime I disliked just for the language comparison, right? xD)

Really I'd just QFT Onibokusu's post but I got yelled at last time I QFT'd a post >>;
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Apr 30, 2011 6:18 AM

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zjz05 said:
You don't have cereal with water instead of milk

You don't paint a black man white

You don't sing the American anthem in Chinese

You do not Dub

∴ Sub > Dub


Subs is labeling the milk 'water' because you're alergic to dairy.

Subs is having a label on a black man that says 'white'.

Subs is singing the American anthem in Chinese but labeling it (American) English.


Mod edit: Removed deleted quote.
Modified by Asako, Apr 30, 2011 10:06 AM
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Apr 30, 2011 6:30 AM

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I said this before but I always prefer sub because I want to learn Japanese, I guess. I don't have anything against dub but if I have my choice I always go with sub. I just like the sound of it more.
 
Apr 30, 2011 6:34 AM

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Kuyukly said:
A new thread, eh?

I like dubs, and I will always watch an anime in both languages if I like the anime enough. (I mean, I'm not gonna sit there and rewatch an anime I disliked just for the language comparison, right? xD)

Really I'd just QFT Onibokusu's post but I got yelled at last time I QFT'd a post >>;


Didn't see this, what if the fact that you disliked the anime was partly because of the language?
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Apr 30, 2011 6:44 AM

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DoubleDango said:
Kuyukly said:
A new thread, eh?

I like dubs, and I will always watch an anime in both languages if I like the anime enough. (I mean, I'm not gonna sit there and rewatch an anime I disliked just for the language comparison, right? xD)

Really I'd just QFT Onibokusu's post but I got yelled at last time I QFT'd a post >>;


Didn't see this, what if the fact that you disliked the anime was partly because of the language?


...

A valid point, sir. If language is my only real issue with the anime, then yeah, I'll watch it in the other language and hope it's better. :P
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Apr 30, 2011 6:54 AM

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I will have to go against the general population here and say I prefer dubs better. I am well aware of the fact that subs are much more accurate and that dubs are usually edited, but regardless I prefer dubs. I believe most people here were born in English-speaking societies and when you are born in an English-speaking society you are likely to become accustomed to the dialect. In my case I was born and raised in America. People there would probably be unfamiliar to Japanese dialect. That is why we become uncomfortable when a Japanese person speaks English. When we listen to a person speak English we say "Oh that is normal" but when we hear a person speak something like Swedish we say "Why do they pronounce the letters so strangely?"
Truthfully I like watching subbed anime as I do not have to strain my ears to hear what they are saying. But in those cases the Japanese voices just flows through head and becomes useless noises. For that reason it is extremely unlikely that I learn Japanese from watching anime, just small phrases at best. However when I listen to dub I find myself to be more easily connected to the voices and I understand what they are saying.
If I were to ask everyone in this site what is their favorite language most people will say English. That is because it is a language we use all the time even now. Without the subtitles most people will turn to dub instead of raw. They are both beautiful languages but it will become more beautiful if you know how to use it and listen to it. In the end I chose whatever is available since voices do not have much effect on my enjoyment in anime.

P.S.: How much Japanese did you learn from watching subs?
Modified by MantisShrimp, Apr 30, 2011 6:58 AM
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Apr 30, 2011 7:07 AM
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Awesome Asako, this should be fun :)

I can only watch subs D; I'm not entirely sure why this is, but I imagine it's something to do with the fact that, being english speaking, I can pick up on tone/emotion in the english language, and only in the english language! I can tell that if this situation were really happening, they wouldn't sound like that! They'd sound more genuinely excited/scared, or their laugh would sound more natural. I just can not pick up on this in another langauge; everything they say sounds perfectly genuine :) It's not that the VA'S aren't talented, it's just my ignorance of foreign languages ^_^
 
Apr 30, 2011 7:13 AM

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Divinations said:
I will have to go against the general population here and say I prefer dubs better. I am well aware of the fact that subs are much more accurate and that dubs are usually edited, but regardless I prefer dubs. I believe most people here were born in English-speaking societies and when you are born in an English-speaking society you are likely to become accustomed to the dialect. In my case I was born and raised in America. People there would probably be unfamiliar to Japanese dialect. That is why we become uncomfortable when a Japanese person speaks English. When we listen to a person speak English we say "Oh that is normal" but when we hear a person speak something like Swedish we say "Why do they pronounce the letters so strangely?"
Truthfully I like watching subbed anime as I do not have to strain my ears to hear what they are saying. But in those cases the Japanese voices just flows through head and becomes useless noises. For that reason it is extremely unlikely that I learn Japanese from watching anime, just small phrases at best. However when I listen to dub I find myself to be more easily connected to the voices and I understand what they are saying.
If I were to ask everyone in this site what is their favorite language most people will say English. That is because it is a language we use all the time even now. Without the subtitles most people will turn to dub instead of raw. They are both beautiful languages but it will become more beautiful if you know how to use it and listen to it.
Note- If I had to chose I would choose subbed anime with dubbed voices. Why not have a mix of both.
P.S.: How much Japanese did you learn from watching subs?
Divinations said:
I will have to go against the general population here and say I prefer dubs better. I am well aware of the fact that subs are much more accurate and that dubs are usually edited, but regardless I prefer dubs. I believe most people here were born in English-speaking societies and when you are born in an English-speaking society you are likely to become accustomed to the dialect. In my case I was born and raised in America. People there would probably be unfamiliar to Japanese dialect. That is why we become uncomfortable when a Japanese person speaks English. When we listen to a person speak English we say "Oh that is normal" but when we hear a person speak something like Swedish we say "Why do they pronounce the letters so strangely?"
Truthfully I like watching subbed anime as I do not have to strain my ears to hear what they are saying. But in those cases the Japanese voices just flows through head and becomes useless noises. For that reason it is extremely unlikely that I learn Japanese from watching anime, just small phrases at best. However when I listen to dub I find myself to be more easily connected to the voices and I understand what they are saying.
If I were to ask everyone in this site what is their favorite language most people will say English. That is because it is a language we use all the time even now. Without the subtitles most people will turn to dub instead of raw. They are both beautiful languages but it will become more beautiful if you know how to use it and listen to it.
Note- If I had to chose I would choose subbed anime with dubbed voices. Why not have a mix of both.
P.S.: How much Japanese did you learn from watching subs?


Okay.

Firstly, I just want to get the fact that I don't care about whether somebody likes subs or dubs better; just want to express my thoughts on your post.

You shouldn't use the word 'dialect' to refer to a language spoken. Dialect, in terms of linguistics, refers to a language spoken by a group of people (usually like an adapted version of a language). I myself speak a 'Chinese dialect' called Teochew and that is only spoken by a small group of people that lived in a certain region.

I don't think it's true that people are uncomfortable when they hear a Japanese person speak English. I think it's really normal (plus English is the #1 international language)... I'm pretty sure at least 1/3 of English speakers in America (and most if not all other English speaking countries) originally comes from or originates from a country that doesn't speak English (i.e. African Americans, Arabs, Asians etc.).

Most people likes to learn new languages and hear new languages because they simply get bored of the language they hear everyday. This is a true fact backed up with statistics so if you feel the need to give it a quick Google, you'll be surprised to find the amount of people who wished they spoke a different languague because they are bored of their own.

They don't become 'useless sounds', to most ears at least. No matter how little you understand a language, the tone and way of speaking are part of the whole understanding process. They also serve to define characthers, in fact, it is one of the biggest factors that serves to add definition and meaning to characthers.

My favorite language is definitely not English. And it's not even my first language. Nor is my maternal language my favorite. I speak: Teochew, French and English all fluently as well as understand quite a bit of Mandarin, Cantonese and don't really have a favorite.

A mix of both...? I don't even know what to think about that.

How much Japanese have I learnt from watching anime? Enough to be able to make small conversations as well as understand quite a bit of conversational Japanese. Learning to read and write as well (though anyone can read romaji).

EDIT:


Lilah said:
Awesome Asako, this should be fun :)

I can only watch subs D; I'm not entirely sure why this is, but I imagine it's something to do with the fact that, being english speaking, I can pick up on tone/emotion in the english language, and only in the english language! I can tell that if this situation were really happening, they wouldn't sound like that! They'd sound more genuinely excited/scared, or their laugh would sound more natural. I just can not pick up on this in another langauge; everything they say sounds perfectly genuine :) It's not that the VA'S aren't talented, it's just my ignorance of foreign languages ^_^


Wait what? Did you mean you can only watch dubs, not subs? You say you can't understand the tone/emotion in languages other than English and you go ahead and say you can only watch subs >_<.
Modified by Yanoflies, Apr 30, 2011 7:19 AM
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Apr 30, 2011 7:34 AM

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-Alakazam- said:
I'm a fansub kinda guy, started off like that and will probably never change. I have tried dubs before though, granted, not too many. The only dub i've watched from start to finish is DeathNote, and I actually prefer the dub over watching it subbed, I've also watched parts of other shows dubbed, like parts of Baccano and little bit of Bleach when I first started out watching anime. So it's subs for me, even though I cant understand the language, their voice actors just seem to have much more emotion in their voice.


Hehe you missed out of Light's evil laugth, oh gawd it was amazing.



^

Good voice actor, pretty hard job. The emotion and all.



How can you dub this? Exactly.



Amazing.
Modified by Yanoflies, Apr 30, 2011 7:44 AM
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Apr 30, 2011 7:42 AM

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DoubleDango said:
Okay.

Firstly, I just want to get the fact that I don't care about whether somebody likes subs or dubs better; just want to express my thoughts on your post.

You shouldn't use the word 'dialect' to refer to a language spoken. Dialect, in terms of linguistics, refers to a language spoken by a group of people (usually like an adapted version of a language). I myself speak a 'Chinese dialect' called Teochew and that is only spoken by a small group of people that lived in a certain region.

I don't think it's true that people are uncomfortable when they hear a Japanese person speak English. I think it's really normal (plus English is the #1 international language)... I'm pretty sure at least 1/3 of English speakers in America (and most if not all other English speaking countries) originally comes from or originates from a country that doesn't speak English (i.e. African Americans, Arabs, Asians etc.).

Most people likes to learn new languages and hear new languages because they simply get bored of the language they hear everyday. This is a true fact backed up with statistics so if you feel the need to give it a quick Google, you'll be surprised to find the amount of people who wished they spoke a different languague because they are bored of their own.

They don't become 'useless sounds', to most ears at least. No matter how little you understand a language, the tone and way of speaking are part of the whole understanding process. They also serve to define characthers, in fact, it is one of the biggest factors that serves to add definition and meaning to characthers.

My favorite language is definitely not English. And it's not even my first language. Nor is my maternal language my favorite. I speak: Teochew, French and English all fluently as well as understand quite a bit of Mandarin, Cantonese and don't really have a favorite.

A mix of both...? I don't even know what to think about that.

How much Japanese have I learnt from watching anime? Enough to be able to make small conversations as well as understand quite a bit of conversational Japanese. Learning to read and write as well (though anyone can read romaji).

Hmm interesting post, thanks for replying
I admit a lot of things you say were true, but some things I still disagree with.
Yes people feel uncomfortable when they hear a Japanese speak English, just search up the term "engrish" on youtube. America is known for its widely diverse population. Since I live in New York it is something that I am very familiar with. Many people who immigrate to America have a first language other than English. That means they speak a different language for a majority of their lives. Skipping to the point I say that there are a plenty of people who just learned English who have very strong accents depending on their first language.
By "useless sound" I mean that it is possible for me to watch subbed shows in mute and still have a complete understanding of what is going on. Though I should have explained it in my previous post.
For favorite languages I mean English opposed to Japanese. Obviously there are more people here that speak English than Japanese. Though English is not your favorite language, it is the favorite language of many people here.
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Apr 30, 2011 7:49 AM
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DoubleDango said:
Wait what? Did you mean you can only watch dubs, not subs? You say you can't understand the tone/emotion in languages other than English and you go ahead and say you can only watch subs >_<.
No, I meant subs! Hmm, how can I articulate it better? When watching dubs, I find that it sounds staged. This is obviously because it is staged! They're reading from a script :) But in Japanese, I can't tell that it sounds staged. It sounds to me as though they really are in a life or death battle with their rival, where as in english it just sounds like someone reading about being in a battle from a script, which I find makes it really embarrassing to watch. Does that make more sense? :)

EDIT: Eeeeek, Pikachu's VA is so adorable! >///<
 
Apr 30, 2011 7:51 AM

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Divinations said:
DoubleDango said:
Okay.

Firstly, I just want to get the fact that I don't care about whether somebody likes subs or dubs better; just want to express my thoughts on your post.

You shouldn't use the word 'dialect' to refer to a language spoken. Dialect, in terms of linguistics, refers to a language spoken by a group of people (usually like an adapted version of a language). I myself speak a 'Chinese dialect' called Teochew and that is only spoken by a small group of people that lived in a certain region.

I don't think it's true that people are uncomfortable when they hear a Japanese person speak English. I think it's really normal (plus English is the #1 international language)... I'm pretty sure at least 1/3 of English speakers in America (and most if not all other English speaking countries) originally comes from or originates from a country that doesn't speak English (i.e. African Americans, Arabs, Asians etc.).

Most people likes to learn new languages and hear new languages because they simply get bored of the language they hear everyday. This is a true fact backed up with statistics so if you feel the need to give it a quick Google, you'll be surprised to find the amount of people who wished they spoke a different languague because they are bored of their own.

They don't become 'useless sounds', to most ears at least. No matter how little you understand a language, the tone and way of speaking are part of the whole understanding process. They also serve to define characthers, in fact, it is one of the biggest factors that serves to add definition and meaning to characthers.

My favorite language is definitely not English. And it's not even my first language. Nor is my maternal language my favorite. I speak: Teochew, French and English all fluently as well as understand quite a bit of Mandarin, Cantonese and don't really have a favorite.

A mix of both...? I don't even know what to think about that.

How much Japanese have I learnt from watching anime? Enough to be able to make small conversations as well as understand quite a bit of conversational Japanese. Learning to read and write as well (though anyone can read romaji).

Hmm interesting post, thanks for replying
I admit a lot of things you say were true, but some things I still disagree with.
Yes people feel uncomfortable when they hear a Japanese speak English, just search up the term "engrish" on youtube. America is known for its widely diverse population. Since I live in New York it is something that I am very familiar with. Many people who immigrate to America have a first language other than English. That means they speak a different language for a majority of their lives. Skipping to the point I say that there are a plenty of people who just learned English who have very strong accents depending on their first language.
By "useless sound" I mean that it is possible for me to watch subbed shows in mute and still have a complete understanding of what is going on. Though I should have explained it in my previous post.
For favorite languages I mean English opposed to Japanese. Obviously there are more people here that speak English than Japanese. Though English is not your favorite language, it is the favorite language of many people here.


Only about 30 percent (according to 2010 demographics) of people in Australia speak with an Australian English accent. I won't disagree the fact that some people feel uncomfortable when they hear a Japanese speak English but the majority don't.

Off course you can completely understand what's going in the show without the sound... You can complete understand a book just by reading it even though it has no sounds. But you don't get the same depth of charactherization without the seiyuu, take a look at the videos I posted above, pretty amazing if I may say so myself.

I rarely doubt the majority of MAL has English as their favorite languague... Sure most of them speak English it's unlikely most's favorite language is English. I'ma start up a poll in General Discussion about it.

EDIT:

Lilah said:
DoubleDango said:
Wait what? Did you mean you can only watch dubs, not subs? You say you can't understand the tone/emotion in languages other than English and you go ahead and say you can only watch subs >_<.
No, I meant subs! Hmm, how can I articulate it better? When watching dubs, I find that it sounds staged. This is obviously because it is staged! They're reading from a script :) But in Japanese, I can't tell that it sounds staged. It sounds to me as though they really are in a life or death battle with their rival, where as in english it just sounds like someone reading about being in a battle from a script, which I find makes it really embarrassing to watch. Does that make more sense? :)

EDIT: Eeeeek, Pikachu's VA is so adorable! >///<


Well, the Japanese seiyuus read from a script too :P. English cartoons, movies and films might read from scripts or read a script memorized too :P.

Don't worry I understand what you mean.
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Apr 30, 2011 7:57 AM
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DoubleDango said:

How can you dub this? Exactly.


Pikachu's voice actor is exactly the same in every single language dub on the planet, unless it's for a language that didn't called 'Pikachu' Pikachu, which is none of them (except for Germany, where a different VA is used for no reason).

No point dubbing over something that's essentially going to stay the same.

Amazing.


Wendee Lee is many years her senior and managed to pull off a fairly similar voice, just slightly deeper. That's more amazing than anything Aya has done.
 
Apr 30, 2011 9:01 AM

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Leonard93 said:
In my opinion is sub usually (not always), better than dubs.
Why?

Cause its the original voices made by the same studio as the producer of the acutal animations, and it feels less like an anime to me if i hear english voices.

Hearing japanese voices (and enjoying it), is part of watching anime, just like how the artstyle is different from western cartoons.
Its a part of anime that shouldnt be altered.


THIS! Highly agree ;)
Especially when dealing with emotions, most dubs that I've heard can't compare to how strong the voice is being projected is when listening to it in Japanese
Modified by Zexu, Apr 30, 2011 9:10 AM
Courtesy of Paul
 
Apr 30, 2011 9:25 AM

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I'm highly neutral in my language preferences, as I can watch english dubs or original Japanese audio just fine. I have bought DVD's in the past to support the R1 industry and primarily to watch the english dubs way back when. Personally I just don't get this fanaticism of thinking one over the over is the superior option.

I just think it's stupid that peoples arguments over why dubs are bad are easily over 10 years old now. I've heard things like; "It butchers the translation, you're not getting the true experience, editing, cutting certain scenes, complete dialogue re-writes etc etc"

And those may be relevant arguments if this was 1997, but it isn't. I've watched a lot of shows, lot of switching between audio. And I've hardly ever come across a situation where I felt a simple difference in language affected a show so badly that it felt like a completely different anime. And no, 4kids is no longer a valid point, maybe 7 years ago back when they still had One Piece licensed. English dubs are given much more respectable treatments these days, and aside from some slight changes in the dialogue(And I put an emphasis on 'slight'). You're still getting the same experience, trying to argue otherwise is pointless.

That said, dubs aren't always perfect-- The acting can get iffy, but only because my theory is that it's a budget problem. Funimation can hardly hire the likes of Christian Bale, or Willem Dafoe or any other major Hollywood actors to voice roles for animated series on a daily basis. So that's why you tend to hear familiar voices a lot of the time.

Subs aren't always the better option either, I've heard and watched shows that had an extremely annoying female cast in particular(The pitches are just too high most of the time, same tone. This is why I try to avoid things like Higurashi or Lucky Star, but that's a different story.) Japanese voice acting isn't always the best either, not to mention that I agree that some people do have certain impairments that make it too draining to sit there, glued to the screen so they can read subtitles(Slow reader). The only advantage is that the studios in Japan are able to hire more experienced VA's since Seiyu seem to be treated almost like movie stars, and that some series are so intertwined with Japanese culture that it actually would lose some of the experience(Urusei Yatsura, HnK aka Fist of the North Star, Touch etc).

So, point is, there are obviously pros and cons for each choice. I'm just sick of people going on claiming subs are always better without giving valid reasons why they think so, it's a stupid obnoxious trend.


 
Apr 30, 2011 9:41 AM

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I really have no preferences, as a whole. Granted, I prefer certain shows in certain languages, but I really don't hold one higher than the other. Each language has its highs and lows, and each language is enjoyable in different ways. It's also too much of a hassle to be a stickler for one side: being able to pick and choose allows greater variety, and even if I do pick the "wrong" one for a show, I'm not gonna be too sour about it.

I should point out that oftentimes, I find dialogue in Japanese (or subtitled back into English, at the very least) lacking and stale. That's not to say that all the time, I find problems with Japanese dialogue: just that sometimes, Japanese dialogue seems bland and uninspiring. I haven't seen many people who share this view, so I'm interested to see if anyone agrees with me.
 
Apr 30, 2011 10:30 AM

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Subs.

Why? Because I want to either watch a show in its original language or in my native language which is not english. So arguing about sub vs. eng dub is totally pointless for me. And arguing about sub vs. german dub is even more pointless, because german dubs are horrible and 95% of all the shows never get dubbed anyway.
Modified by grandy_UiD, Apr 30, 2011 11:20 AM
 
Apr 30, 2011 10:56 AM

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It's always a first priority to watch the English dub of a show if one is available. While there is no problem with watching an anime with Japanese audio and English subtitles, it's always easier when a peripheral doesn't have to be kept on the entire screen and can just focus on whatever is happening. The actual quality of English dubs is rarely anything less than quite good nowadays, so subtitles are the option whenever a dub is not available.

The conflict seems to arise from someone asking "going to watch Y. English dub or Japanese with English subtitles?"

As it usually takes several months at the least for a newly made anime to get an English dub, the only option for the Internet anime community is to watch subtitled versions to get their fix, or be fluent in Japanese (which is doubtful, but that's neither here nor there). When someone asks that question, most of the fandom will be inclined to tell that person to watch the Japanese version with English subtitles, as it's usually the case that they've heard only snippets of what's been produced, but most of the time it's derived from what version was seen first, which will almost always be the Japanese audio. Certainly, I myself can't imagine watching Baccano! and Eden of the East in Japanese, much like how I would find it awkward to hear English from Durarara!! or Angelic Layer.

Of course, if everyone were to somehow hold off on watching a show with Japanese audio and English subtitles and wait for an English dub, the effect would likely be the same if only swinging toward the other bias.

In effect, the only ones who could comment on whether Japanese vocals with English subtitles or the English dub of an anime should be watched would be someone who's watched both versions and isn't affected by having viewed one or the other first. But that usually doesn't happen, at from what I've noticed, at least.
 
Apr 30, 2011 11:39 AM

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I must be the only one who watches English Dub with English Subtitles, at the same time. And English IS NOT my native language, it's my third language.

I've been watching English Dub since my childhood and that's never going to change. I feel connected with an English voice, especially in emotional scene if done correctly of course because I understand everything they say. Like Hias said, all argument about edits,bad voice acting,etc. are invalid as of today. There are no better or superior like some people here seem to believe, both have bad(annoying) and good voice actors. I try to avoid Subs because a lot of female voices make my ear bleed.
 
Apr 30, 2011 11:51 AM

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I am fluent only in English so I not honestly form a opinion on which has better acting or which actors put more emotion into their role. As far as I know the Japanese voice actors totally suck at voice acting, over do or under do their lines or sound like children's show characters to the average Japanese person . I do not know seeing how I am not fluent in Japanese. At least when I am watching a dub I can tell if a voice actor is sounding like a children's show character,over or under doing their lines or how good of a voice actor they are. I realize with dubs they sometimes change the names. But as far as Dynamic and formal equivalence translation that is usually the translators fault not the voice actors fault.


I prefer dubs because I hate reading while watching tv. So I will only watch subs if I can not get a hold of a dub or if a series is not completely dubbed. There are some subbed series I can practically marathon and some that just bore me to tears trying to read the subs. About the only thing I like about the subs is the translators notes letting you know what this or that is or how a certain holiday is celebrated there.
 
Apr 30, 2011 12:01 PM

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ezikialrage said:
As far as I know the Japanese voice actors totally suck at voice acting, over do or under do their lines or sound like children's show characters to the average Japanese person.

Well then you obviously know nothing.

Also being fluent in a language or not has nothing to do with being able to notice whether or not a VA puts emotion into his/her acting.
 
Apr 30, 2011 1:27 PM

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I prefer Japanese audio with subtitles. The dubbed anime I watched as a child was great for that time but as I acquired more and more dual audio releases and gained the option to switch audio tracks I found the English track to be less entertaining with inexplicable alterations to persons, places, and things. There also seems to be too much foreboding and hints added to some dubs that are borderline spoilers for events in later episodes. Not only are oddities added to the dub but many things are just plain lost in translation. So I decided to generally not bother with most dubs in order to avoid the irritants that seem to go hand-in-hand with localization.

Then there is the acting. Personally, anime seiyuu = cartoon VO artists quality-wise but the fact is most VO artists that do cartoon work do not do anime dubs, that's my problem. If I were to do a voice cast for a manga(before getting an anime) the Japanese list would use people that actually work on anime(maybe a few jDrama and Live Action idols) while my English list would have names like Kevin Michael Richardson, Ron Perlman, Billy West, Hank Azuria, Robert Englund, Peter Cullen, Keith David, Christopher Judge, Jennifer Hale,Tress MacNeille,Kath Soucie...I could go on but the point is the caliber of acting that I like to hear in animation is not present in most dubs.


Plus I have come to enjoy anime as a product of Japan and keeping it as Japanese as possible makes sense to me.

 
Apr 30, 2011 1:31 PM

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Tharand said:
ezikialrage said:
As far as I know the Japanese voice actors totally suck at voice acting, over do or under do their lines or sound like children's show characters to the average Japanese person.

Well then you obviously know nothing.

Also being fluent in a language or not has nothing to do with being able to notice whether or not a VA puts emotion into his/her acting.

Pretty sure ezikialrage's post was hypothetical. And yet, there are so many things wrong with this statement it's not even funny. Being fluent in a language is very important in determining how good or bad the acting is. Plenty of things, like tone and enunciation, are completely lost if you don't understand the spoken language. Many things go into giving a good performance that you just won't pick up on. This is the main reason why people tend to think the Japanese VA's are better than the English ones: the English ones are the ones they can accurately judge.

As for my view on the topic, I can basically QFT the likes of Onibokusu, Kuyukly, and a few others. I prefer dubs if there's a choice, but have no problem either way. I have heard Japanese voices equivalent to ear-rape and I've heard terrible English dubs, so neither is superior as long as both exist to me. I just really hate the constant insult dubs and dub fans get, and the same recycled arguments that come over and over again but never get any more accurate.
 
Apr 30, 2011 1:45 PM

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Pretty sure ezikialrage's post was hypothetical. And yet, there are so many things wrong with this statement it's not even funny. Being fluent in a language is very important in determining how good or bad the acting is. Plenty of things, like tone and enunciation, are completely lost if you don't understand the spoken language.


Appreciation for enunciation and tone are picked up through exposure and repetition, not fluency. I hypothesize you could pick 5 movies from any language for me to watch and I will be able to tell you which ones I thought were good.

 
Apr 30, 2011 1:55 PM
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I watch both, but I prefer subs usually. If I can't find a subbed version than dub is fine ^_^ As long as the dub doesn't cut out any of the story, or anything.

I just care for the original story line, and the Anime. The voices have never really bothered me for either one dub or sub. Only certain animes I'm used too seeing in sub so it's really hard too watch the dub.
 
Apr 30, 2011 2:49 PM

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As I said in the last thread, I watch both subs and dubs pretty much equally.

Interestingly enough though, I am starting to watch and prefer dubs over the Japanese audio.

Unless it's dubbed by 4kids, most recently dubbed anime are very good in quality and rivals the Japanese audio.... most of the time. When it comes to pre-90s shows though, I really don't give dubs chances since they are famous for being terrible.
 
Apr 30, 2011 3:52 PM

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In general I prefer subs, BUT, for alot of anime out there I actually would rather watch dubs due to various reasons
ie: Beck Mongolian Chop Squad
Some anime dubbed just portray the anime better

but modern day I am sick of watching dubbed, because I have heard the 10 same annoying voice actors in all the new anime, it makes it hard for me to focus on the series to the point I wont even watch it.

Subs, in the end are better because you get the original content, and it fits better with all the anime based in Japan

but of course, you'll find annoying Japanese voice actors as well
 
Apr 30, 2011 5:14 PM

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wow sub vs dub v2? didn't see this coming, oh well.

like both dubs and subs but at the end of the day, dubs are better IMO

hey it's better than focusing on the subtitles half the time, plus i can understand what they're saying since i can speak english. regardless, i tend to not to care so much which way i watch anime, mainly because it doesn't matter.
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Apr 30, 2011 5:24 PM

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It really depends on the series, but for the most part I prefer dubbed. I just prefer hearing things in a language I'm fluent in.

Now, the series itself also matters too. Obvious if it's an airing series, I don't have a choice, but there are some series that do sound better subbed. If I'm watching Clannad or Cardcaptor Sakura, then I will go with subbed because it is superior. Those cases are getting far more rare then they used to be, though, and I find that I just prefer dubbed more often now.
 
Apr 30, 2011 5:35 PM

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Auralvampire said:

but modern day I am sick of watching dubbed, because I have heard the 10 same annoying voice actors in all the new anime, it makes it hard for me to focus on the series to the point I wont even watch it.

Voice acting in the states is a rather niche occupation so it wouldn't be surprising to hear the same voice in different shows. However, as FUNimation is pretty much the only company producing dubs anymore, then, hypothetically (keyword being "hypothetically"), the exposure to the talent pool gets slashed to a fourth of its actual size. IE, you'd hear Texas-based talent more often than the VA's from California (VIZ) or New York (Media Blasters), the latter of which seems to be largely sub-only these days. Not to mention Canada (Ocean Productions). Isn't it sad, Brad Swaile?
 
Apr 30, 2011 5:58 PM

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Akito_Kinomoto said:
Not to mention Canada (Ocean Productions). Isn't it sad, Brad Swaile?


It's a shame, too, since, when given the minimal opportunity, The Ocean Group generally muster well-acted voice work, like with Nana, Boys Over Flowers, Black Lagoon, and Death Note for example.
 
Apr 30, 2011 8:08 PM

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Both are good in their own right, but I prefer dubs personally. I am slightly dyslexic, so I read VERY SLOWLY, and it takes a lot of effort, eye straining, and video pausing for me to watch subbed anime. I like to be able to just sit back and watch a show without having to do work at the same time...
 
Apr 30, 2011 8:50 PM

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DoubleDango said:
zjz05 said:
You don't have cereal with water instead of milk

You don't paint a black man white

You don't sing the American anthem in Chinese

You do not Dub

∴ Sub > Dub


Subs is labeling the milk 'water' because you're alergic to dairy.

Subs is having a label on a black man that says 'white'.

Subs is singing the American anthem in Chinese but labeling it (American) English.


Mod edit: Removed deleted quote.


Just wanted to say that Dangos post is spot on. If you're arguing that these shows weren't meant to be seen with dubs then you could just as well argue that they weren't meant to be seen with subs either. But since most sub people can't understand Japanese they can't watch raws, and can't argue in their favor.

Also, in addition to everything thats already been mentioned. I find that many sub only fans, most of whom don't speak Japanese (No, knowing baka and arigatou does not count as knowing Japanese), basically have their "dub-hate" so to speak ingrained into them. Many grew up watching dubbed anime, but are likely watching fansubs now that they're older more "experienced" fans. Basically, its an elitist thing to hate dubs.

Also, I think it also largely stems from modern day anime watching. Nowadays you can load up any old streaming site or torrent site and find anything that airing in Japan RIGHT NOW. And if you don't watch the currently airing stuff then you're behind the times. Obviously none of this stuff is dubbed so everyone who watches it watches it subbed or raw. Then later down the line if a dub comes out those same people will often hate on it because its different than how they originally expirienced the anime much like how many watch older shows like Pokemon in english because thats how they originally experienced it.

So yeah, basically I fall into the usually watches subs. but also watches dubs and has nothing against them in general.
 
May 1, 2011 1:14 AM

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Redfoxoffire said:


Being fluent in a language is very important in determining how good or bad the acting is.

No, it's not. Read the comment directly below yours.

I agree that if you are watching your first couple (dozens?) of shows in japanese and never heard the language before, then you probably will not be able to tell whether the performance is good or not because you have no idea how the language sounds.

However, after getting you used to it you CAN differentiate between a good and a bad performance. Alot of people here, including myself, have seen hundreds of anime with japanese audio and I assure you I know when a VA sucks (although this is often completely subjective) and I'm sure as hell nowhere near being fluent in japanese.
 
May 1, 2011 3:58 AM
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Tharand said:

However, after getting you used to it you CAN differentiate between a good and a bad performance. Alot of people here, including myself, have seen hundreds of anime with japanese audio and I assure you I know when a VA sucks (although this is often completely subjective) and I'm sure as hell nowhere near being fluent in japanese.


I'll go ahead and burst your bubble, but that's not the case. Not at all. I can hear a plane take off a hundred times, but that doesn't mean I'll know what a good takeoff and a bad takeoff sounds like. I'll just know what a takeoff sounds like. It's the same with a language you don't speak. You can hear Japanese spoken hundreds of times, however that's not going to put you in a position wherein you can actively critique a performance. A voice is going to have to be blatantly bad for your to recognise it's bad. As much as you probably like to think you know the nuances of the Japanese language and how a character should and shouldn't sound based upon characteristics such as gender, height, age, physical build, lifestyle and external environment ... You most likely don't.
 
May 1, 2011 4:49 AM

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Onibokusu said:
Tharand said:

However, after getting you used to it you CAN differentiate between a good and a bad performance. Alot of people here, including myself, have seen hundreds of anime with japanese audio and I assure you I know when a VA sucks (although this is often completely subjective) and I'm sure as hell nowhere near being fluent in japanese.


I'll go ahead and burst your bubble, but that's not the case. Not at all. I can hear a plane take off a hundred times, but that doesn't mean I'll know what a good takeoff and a bad takeoff sounds like. I'll just know what a takeoff sounds like. It's the same with a language you don't speak. You can hear Japanese spoken hundreds of times, however that's not going to put you in a position wherein you can actively critique a performance. A voice is going to have to be blatantly bad for your to recognise it's bad. As much as you probably like to think you know the nuances of the Japanese language and how a character should and shouldn't sound based upon characteristics such as gender, height, age, physical build, lifestyle and external environment ... You most likely don't.

So you say I can't and I say I can. Now what?

(also this is one of the most stupid analogies I've ever seen)
 
May 1, 2011 5:15 AM

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For me, pretty much always "SUB > DUB", with very few/rare exceptions - Baccano! was one of them, due to it's setting.

So why do I think Sub > Dub?

- I don't know why, but English voices feel "out of place" a lot of the time.
- As a huge chunk of Anime are set around "high-school/Teenagers", English voices sound too "Mature" for their characters.
- Japanese voices generally portray the emotions more effectively. (This may be due to Japanese Voice artists being more experienced/talented due to its huge Anime Culture).

I don't have anything against Dubs, but I believe that any Show/Movie/Series will portray feelings and emotions much better in their original language, and even though I am "Reading" the dialogue, those emotions are "transferred".
Will you be able to do.... what must be done?

 
May 1, 2011 7:27 AM

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where I live, everything has subs. only exception are some cartoons and anime (pokemon and dragonball in my language was just painful to watch). I never watched anime with english dub, so I can't judge those. however I've seen other cartoons with english dub (really old ones) and they didn't sound good to me. but I guess dub quality has changed a lot since then. as a kid I used to watch anime on german and it was alright to me.

I'm used to subs and I'll use them whenever possible; for example when watching something on english, I'll still download english subtitles. sometimes I don't hear well some word, so sub helps with this as well. I prefer watching movie/series/anime with their original voices.

I can relate to both sides, but in the end it's all about personal preference
 
May 1, 2011 7:37 AM
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I actually see a growing tendency to Japanese with subtitles for me. I used to regularly watch some shows dubbed, but they got less and less and by now I only watch shows dubbed when I rewatch them with friends (like Mushishi recently).
But I don't think it's really because of quality, although I also recognize more weak dubs than I did 1 or 2 years ago. I'm just so used to hearing japanese voices by now, that another language just doesn't seem to fit anymore for most shows I start. So it's mostly a psychological reason, but I can't help.
Also arguments against watching animes subbed only that I used to make don't seem as convincing any more (like not being able know what parts of sentences are stressed etc..). I totally have to agree on this:

Anime_Name said:
Pretty sure ezikialrage's post was hypothetical. And yet, there are so many things wrong with this statement it's not even funny. Being fluent in a language is very important in determining how good or bad the acting is. Plenty of things, like tone and enunciation, are completely lost if you don't understand the spoken language.


Appreciation for enunciation and tone are picked up through exposure and repetition, not fluency. I hypothesize you could pick 5 movies from any language for me to watch and I will be able to tell you which ones I thought were good.


I'm not fluent in japanese, but I'm pretty confident that I can see the differences in voice acting. Didn't use to believe that, but it's true.

Anyway, until a few months ago I really didn't care which version I watch, but now I actually see myself avoiding dubs, because a) the chances ARE a bit higher to get low quality voice acting and b) because I'm just so used to it by now, that other languages decrease my enjoyment of animes.

I won't say that dubs suck though, I've seen many and I've enjoyed most of them and I'm sure I could get used to them again, but I'm too lazy for that ^^.
Modified by Pullman, May 1, 2011 7:46 AM

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May 1, 2011 10:41 AM

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It purely depends on the voice-actors, rather than the language itself. Watching a dubbed Anime with good English cast, like Black lagoon or Nabari No Ou, definitely tops wasting your attention on the subtitles, at least that's my case.
 
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