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Poll: Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Episode 10 Discussion


Mar 12, 2011 12:56 PM

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About the Homura=Walpurgis-witch: It would explain why QB would let Homura make a wish like that. And perhaps his race has the means to safe the energy each loop. I wouldn't put it past Urobuchi to come up with a cruel story like that. By making her wish, Homura doomed Madoka and herself. With that scenario, the only way out does seem to be Homura's suicide.
It fits with the Faust analogy as well: homura=Faust, QB helps her to corrupt the innocent Madoka (Gretchen).

However, I'm not sure how her wish works. I think that as soon as something happens to Homura, which stops her from being able to protect Madoka, time is reset. She doesn't do it herself, it's her wish at work. If her wish isn't fullfilled, there's a reset. So if anything happens to her before Madoka contracts/turns into a witch, there's a reset. And Homura committing suicide after all she's been through would make it all so pointless.

Another possibilty: there was a magical girl system before. QB said they dicovered the system, not that they invented it. So it's possible they added the entire wish and soulgem/griefseed stuff for their own purpose. In that case it should be possible to become a magical girl, without making a contract with QB (and ofcourse the possibility to bring everyone back etc.).
 
Mar 12, 2011 1:12 PM

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pilipino101 said:
Ok... I mean really, they need to give a BETTER explanation about the soul gem, the body, and death. I mean because Mami DIES in the alternate world also, YET according to kyuubey, a person's soul gem keeps it from being DESTROYED when the BODY is destroyed, so doesn't that mean that Mami is still ALIVE? Because I personally believe that as long as the soul gem is fine, the body SHOULD be able to be rebuilt, or even EXCHANGED while maintaining a person's self. I have yet to see or hear an mentions of the Puella Magi dying BECAUSE her SOUL GEM is DESTROYED, but rather than the BODY BEING "fatally" CRIPPLED.


In episode seven (?), when Sayaka's soul gem was thrown onto the truck, once it got a certain distance away she became an empty shell. Kyuubey then explained how your soul gem is like your soul in a more convenient form outside your body. If you lose it or it gets destroyed, you die/become a shell.

And in episode three Mami was decapitated, and eaten. I don't think there was any hope for her. And isn't it possible to suggest her soul gem was eaten or destroyed in the process as well?
 
Mar 12, 2011 1:41 PM

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Homura was stealing from yakuza and the army.
If that is not badass, I don't know what is.
 
Mar 12, 2011 1:41 PM

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Homura was stealing from yakuza and the army.
If that is not badass, I don't know what is.
 
Mar 12, 2011 1:41 PM

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Homura was stealing from yakuza and the army.
If that is not badass, I don't know what is.
 
Mar 12, 2011 2:02 PM
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Well, I predict this as being a Tragedy anime. Haven't seen those in a while.
 
Mar 12, 2011 3:01 PM

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It's quite possible that we're all witnessing anime history in the making. If the last 2 episodes are of and equal or even higher level then what we've seen so far then SHAFT might just possible have made one of the best anime of the last decade, one that can easily stand next to FMA: Brotherhood.

<-- Homura fan from now on \o/

"Thousands have lived without love, not one without water." -Wystan Hugh
 
Mar 12, 2011 4:07 PM
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Too bad FMA:B and Madoka aren't in the same decade.
 
Mar 12, 2011 5:22 PM

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GarLogan78 said:
And in episode three Mami was decapitated, and eaten. I don't think there was any hope for her. And isn't it possible to suggest her soul gem was eaten or destroyed in the process as well?


This episode showed us that her soul gem was attached to her hair pin/thingy. I think we can assume that when she was decapitated, her soul gem was destroyed in the process
 
Mar 12, 2011 6:09 PM

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because theres already topic for this episode...
 
Mar 12, 2011 6:40 PM
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This just make me like her more. How awesome for such a clumsy girl to become a harden veteran and finally, Madoka showed us some of actions, shot the witches, killed Mami, ordered Terminator (I mean, Homura) to go to the past and stop her before it's too late.

Now...the ending of this show is kinda even harder to guess...it could be outrage if Homura fails this time too.
 
Mar 12, 2011 8:29 PM

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Fuurinkazan said:
Omniknight said:
These forum bugs are getting really, really annoying.

Seriously. This is the buggiest site I've seen in my life.

So true. It's like the site is in a timeloop and we're dragged long.
What really makes me mad, is that there's not a single sign from the mods that they're trying to resolve it.

And on topic:
Roberta: 335 Roberta - asteroid
Patricia: 436 Patricia - asteroid
Isadel: 210 Isabella(?) - asteroid
 
Mar 12, 2011 10:45 PM

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BEST anime of this season. Honestly.

Homura has been my favourite Mahou Shoujo since the start... and this just makes her character far superior in my eyes. I wonder if the times of repeat we saw in this episode is the actual amount of times she's repeated this... because I really reckon she has gone through this MANY times, and also... this episode is something that I did think about as a hypothesis for what Homura has done/did/seen/experienced etc so I am very satisfied with this episode.

And is the only remaining way to kill Madoka? Or perhaps destroy the world itself? because Incubator is Immortal. I wonder.........





The Morning Rescue advert had a different music this time XD
 
Mar 13, 2011 6:16 AM

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Day2Dream said:

We might also have to assume she has gone through this cycle more than it was shown.

And lets not forget Homura is only 14 years old =P.


In one of the earlier episodes, she said she lost count of how many Magical Girls she saw dying. 2+1(Or +witch=2)+3(or +witch=4)+0(or 1, Madoka turns into witch, others are not shown so unsure).=6~9 MS dying. I wouldn't lose count after six, or nine.. So I think it's okay to assume these weren't all timelines. =)
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One day we will meet again..
 
Mar 13, 2011 6:55 AM

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cleo said:
However, I'm not sure how her wish works. I think that as soon as something happens to Homura, which stops her from being able to protect Madoka, time is reset. She doesn't do it herself, it's her wish at work. If her wish isn't fullfilled, there's a reset. So if anything happens to her before Madoka contracts/turns into a witch, there's a reset. And Homura committing suicide after all she's been through would make it all so pointless.


That indeed is an interesting question that had me thinking about it too. At first, during this episode, I was convinced, just as you said, that Homura had no control over her going back in time and that it's triggered by her failing to protect Madoka. Then came the last part of the ep which shook me a bit in my conviction. I'm talking about that part when she walks away from QB saying ''I'll repeat it.'' Somehow it seemed, unlike in the previous iterations, she had control over turning back time.
I suppose it's just me, but somehow the nature of her wish seemed ambiguous at that moment.
Well, I guess the most probabel explanation is that she got used to it, and actually formed a resolve to her meeting with Madoka being repeated as many times as necessary.
cleo said:
Fuurinkazan said:
Omniknight said:
These forum bugs are getting really, really annoying.

Seriously. This is the buggiest site I've seen in my life.

So true. It's like the site is in a timeloop and we're dragged long.

Who knows, that just might be true. Jokes aside, I agree with you guys, it really is becoming quite difficult to keep track of other people's replies and have a normal discussion.
Modified by metamorphius, Mar 13, 2011 8:14 AM
 
Mar 13, 2011 7:04 AM

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Epic episode. i just more love Madoka magica.
In this eps:
#Madoka being awesome
#Homura was so cute in Megane
#Finally i can see my badass Kyoko again but she died again by Mami
#Mami was going insane and i like that
#Sayaka's fate was.. eh...

Can't wait for the next eps!
 
Mar 13, 2011 7:15 AM

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This episode offered us a significant quantity of Narm, but it's not like I wasn't expecting it.
The 'Time-bending Homura' thingie was kinda predictable but appropriate I guess.
Still, it was a major disappointment after the enjoyable last few episodes despite the 2 or 3 nicely done scenes.

The whole Kyouko - Sayaka relationship stays as my favorite thing about the show.

I have the feeling I would have enjoyed this much more had it been handled by another studio.
"This Forest isn't going to reveal all its secrets for the likes of you."
 
Mar 13, 2011 7:37 AM

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Def a 5/5.

How can anyone compare this to Endless Eight? That was the same crap over and over for over 3 hours straight, with only the most superficial alterations each time, when the novel focused on that time loop for a ridiculously shorter amount of time, definitely not 8 episodes worth.

If this episode should be compared to anything, it's
 
Mar 13, 2011 8:35 AM

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Ya, apparently, it's a fake, but we can dream can we?

P.S. Sorry if this like triple posts by accident... Forums are really weird...

Edit: Oops... forgot to source image (http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/)
Modified by Omniknight, Mar 13, 2011 8:54 AM
 
Mar 13, 2011 9:07 AM

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cleo said:
About the Homura=Walpurgis-witch: It would explain why QB would let Homura make a wish like that. And perhaps his race has the means to safe the energy each loop. I wouldn't put it past Urobuchi to come up with a cruel story like that. By making her wish, Homura doomed Madoka and herself. With that scenario, the only way out does seem to be Homura's suicide.
It fits with the Faust analogy as well: homura=Faust, QB helps her to corrupt the innocent Madoka (Gretchen).

It does make sense, but there is an inconsistency: Walpurgis is an insanely powerful witch, while Homura has, at best, mediocre magical powers.
"Tonight, I sit in the eye of the storm. As fire boils around me, I press forward, winds and lightning lashing my wings. I am no match for what I face. Yet I will not back down, and though fear may place it's stranglehold on my heart, courage will see me through. With tears in my eyes, I hit full throttle. My engines become an inferno, and my weapons light up, awaiting my command.

If I die tonight, I will do so fighting for everything I believe in."


 
Mar 13, 2011 1:50 PM
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Has it been said anywhere that a wish can't be used to bring people back to life? Cause if not, I fear that they will go the obvious route: Madoka will use her wish to bring everyone back to life, they all fight the witches, and yadda yadda.

But hey, this show has been surprising me from day one, so let's see what happens.
 
Mar 13, 2011 2:57 PM
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Was I the only one that started laughing when Mami fliped out and started shooting everyone?

So.... what isHomura like the terminator or something? This episode made a brain feel funny.
 
Mar 13, 2011 3:23 PM

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Wow, just freaking wow. Timeline after timeline after timeline. That's why Homura became so cold hearted. It all makes sense now.

Promising to stop Madoka from becoming a Puella Magi no matter how many times she has to repeat it. So sad and tragic because present Madoka has no idea what Homura is going through!

Can't wait for the last two episodes! >w<
 
Mar 13, 2011 3:53 PM

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BrickBreak said:
GreenJoker said:
Looks like Mami is the weakest link after all. I'm disappointed.

I wouldn't call her weak... she was just a true child of peace.
There aren't that many people who could face that fact and keep their sanity, you know, specially if they're knights in shining armor, like her.

And she was a veteran, so she killed a lot of witches. She might have realised that a lot of them were girls she knew. And though she freaked, her actions were quite in line with her ideal of saving people from harm, by killing potential witches.

Omniknight said:
Homura was stealing from yakuza and the army.

I thought it was the Yakuza too, but Yesy translated it as Shafuto Industries.
Looked it up at wiki :D

RomanaDesu said:
In one of the earlier episodes, she said she lost count of how many Magical Girls she saw dying. 2+1(Or +witch=2)+3(or +witch=4)+0(or 1, Madoka turns into witch, others are not shown so unsure).=6~9 MS dying. I wouldn't lose count after six, or nine.. So I think it's okay to assume these weren't all timelines. =)
Also because the prologue (ep 1) isn't the same as what looks like the prologue in ep 10: http://images.puella-magi.net/b/b0/Walpurgis_ep1_versus_ep10.jpg
and the last timeline (homura chasing QB, but Madoka being with him) is a bit different than in ep 1. Homura looks sad in ep 10 and there's less talk between Homura and Madoka.

metamorphius said:
Somehow it seemed, unlike in the previous iterations, she had control over turning back time.

Yes, I noticed that too. So maybe her power is to stop time, and her ability is to redo her meeting with Madoka. Because the only time travelling we've seen from her, is to the day of their first meeting.

BrickBreak said:
It does make sense, but there is an inconsistency: Walpurgis is an insanely powerful witch, while Homura has, at best, mediocre magical powers.
True. There's more foreshadowing than just the gears though:
The Walpurgis witch is upside down -> Homura while fighting Walp falls down head first -> figure with umbrella on billboard at station in ep 8 falls down head first (same billboard is seen in ep 10 where Mami freaks out) -> Homura has umbrella in OP
Strange thing is that Homura has very old prints of Walp-witch, all looking similar with slight differences, just like in ep 10.

nevermore199 said:
Has it been said anywhere that a wish can't be used to bring people back to life?
QB told Madoka he couldn't bring Sayaka back, but that she could do it once she's a magical girl (godtier power etc.)
 
Mar 13, 2011 4:21 PM

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Excellent episode. I especially liked placing the title at the end of the episode to confirm what the lyrics were really about.

QB is pretty relentless in his (their?) mission to contract with Madoka. I'm not sure if the QBs manage to maintain their collective memories among Homura's time rewinds. In the last rewind, QB finds out right at the end when Homura travels back in time, and this time he confirms it even earlier at the park scene.

Since Homura clearly needs to get QB away from Madoka, the easiest course of action is to stuff Madoka away into Homura's Room of Requirement arm lantern shield dimensional pocket until Walpurgis Night is dealt with.

Just don't accidentally pull her out during battle.
 
Mar 13, 2011 4:28 PM
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Endless Eight

Endless what now?
*puts fingers in ears*
I CAN'T HEAR YOU

--

In the second to last timeline, after Madoka kills the witch and QB and Homu-chan are talking, QB talks about how Madoka is going to destroy the world right now. Does this mean madoka instakills the witch, and then insta-becomes a witch? I thought she was fine until she ran out of magic?

And is it just me, or does madoka become monotonically more powerful every timeline?
 
Mar 13, 2011 6:20 PM

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...


I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO EXPLAIN HOW BLOWN MY MIND RIGHT NOW.

This show gets all of my love. All of it.
 
Mar 13, 2011 6:42 PM

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Goddamnit Kyubee.
Screeny:

 
Mar 13, 2011 7:16 PM

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Long theory post coming. Brace yourself.

1- Regarding Homura's timeloop: I am wondering if it's voluntarily at all.

There are four possibilities:

A- It's voluntary ("Repeat. I'll repeat it no matter how many times."), and Homura will keep on going until she saves Madoka, dies, or turns into a wish.
B- It'is involuntary, and will end only when she accomplishes a certain key goal, most likely saving Madoka (but it might not be it, might be another unrelated goal: those who watched Day Break know what I'm talking about).
C- It's involuntary, and inescapable: she will be trapped in it forever, regardless of the outcome.
D- It's voluntary, not controlled by Homura, but by someone else - QB, obviously - and she is a mere pawn in the cycle, being used for whatever purposes he wants, and she merely thinks she is in control. This would explain the differences between the timelines that do not come from her direct action.

At the moment, I see them all as possible, with only option B being a little less likely than the others.



2- "I gathered a lot more energy than our collection quota."

Now, this sentence makes absolutely no sense to me. Entropy is a continuous process: it cannot be stopped, and to push it back constant injections of energy are necessary. So how can there be energy quotas for the Incubators? Shouldn't they simply attempt to collect as much energy as possible?
Can they afford to give up on the entire Puella Magi system on Earth of a little bit of extra juice from Madoka? Put in simple terms, if they allow witch Madoka to destroy Earth, there will no more energy coming from the planet, ever.
QB himself says they traveled through the universe, met thousands of civilizations, and found humans and their emotions to be essential to the system. Even if there are other races in the universe capable of emotions and thus of producing energy through the Puella system, they will never be comparable to what humans produce, going for what he said.
Madoka may be powerful. Insanely powerful. But it simply doesn't add up.


3- Homura must have another source of information.

And this connects directly to what Cleo said about the Walpurgis paintings.
Most of us thought, before episode ten, that she was obtaining information from another source, even if she was a time traveler. She simply knew too much.

Now, most abandoned that theory. But I haven't. There are still things that Homura knows that she wouldn't be able to, at least exclusively from the time loops.

For example, knowing QB's real name, objective, and form (remember, we still haven't seen this last one :) I sure hope we get that chance) . From her experience, she only knew that he had tricked the girls, and the consequences and mechanics of the cycle, not the reasoning behind it. She must have gotten that information elsewhere.

The paintings on her wall are another example. We know Walpurgis isn't an isolated incident: it showed up in the past, elsewhere. Yet, in the fifteen days the cycle lasts, there is little to no information on it. She only knows when it is coming.
Yet, she managed to collect an amazing amount of intel on it, namel the painings, the location where it will spawn, and information of past attacks. Some of that probably came from Kyoko, and maybe even from QB, but not all of it. Kyoko wouldn't have all that information (after all, she didn't even knew it was coming), and QB wouldn't give all of it (so it wouldn't make Walpurgis beatable). Again, all of that must come from a third party.

Based on this alone, I have a theory: QB is a rogue element of his race, shunned because of his actions.
Perhaps the Incubators are peaceful, and actively seeking a way to stop entropy, having discovered but ditched the magical system because of it's consequences. QB might have not agreed to it, and started making use of it anyway.

So perhaps Homura's source is another Incubator, trying to spot the QB's madness.

Or it might be the other way around: the Incubators are like QB, but there is one that developed human emotions (taking inspirations from V, here), feeling sorry for them and helping Homura out.



4 - Two questions for all of you.

Assume Homura has complete control over the time loops.

If she manages to completely save the world somehow, with Madoka dying (dying, not turning to witch) in the process, will she restart?

And if she manages to save Madoka, but doom the world in the process, will she be satisfied and break the cycle?

I feel the answer to both questions would be yes. And that is why, despite all that happened, I am still not too fond of her.



Uff, that was long. Need to take a deep breath.
"Tonight, I sit in the eye of the storm. As fire boils around me, I press forward, winds and lightning lashing my wings. I am no match for what I face. Yet I will not back down, and though fear may place it's stranglehold on my heart, courage will see me through. With tears in my eyes, I hit full throttle. My engines become an inferno, and my weapons light up, awaiting my command.

If I die tonight, I will do so fighting for everything I believe in."


 
Mar 13, 2011 7:30 PM

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Goddamnit Kyubee.
Screeny:


First time I rewatched an episode of anything right after finishing it, I caught lots of details I missed before.

 
Mar 13, 2011 7:33 PM

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awesome
kinda of godly so far

back story on Homura was superb
she looks so freaking adorable with her braids and glasses. after every time skip she keeps getting more and more badass.
Well i got my Mami back if only for awhile and she was destine to die every single time.
Mami snapping and trying to kill everyone was unexpected but well. Im sure anyone would snap if they learned they got saved to turn into a witch.

But yeah Homura and Madoka lovelove time!!!

So Madoka becoming a magical girl is always bad end wonder if it will have a bad end.
 
Mar 13, 2011 8:03 PM

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light_rook said:
Endless Eight

Endless what now?
*puts fingers in ears*
I CAN'T HEAR YOU

--

In the second to last timeline, after Madoka kills the witch and QB and Homu-chan are talking, QB talks about how Madoka is going to destroy the world right now. Does this mean madoka instakills the witch, and then insta-becomes a witch? I thought she was fine until she ran out of magic?

And is it just me, or does madoka become monotonically more powerful every timeline?


maybe because of her great powers a griefseed is not enough to restore it and purify her soulgem.
 
Mar 13, 2011 8:26 PM

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Wow. Just wow. This is an episode I've been waiting a while for, a good explanation episode. And of course the fact that it's Homura-centric is even better. I am so glad I bought that wallscroll of her.

I love how she goes from trying out her first homemade bomb to just strolling into a military base (or something) and just grabbing everything she can, and considering she's got hammerspace in that shield/time piece of hers, she probably grabbed literally everything.

 
Mar 13, 2011 8:40 PM

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Paul said:
Anime title should be called Mahou Shoujo Homura★Magica.


definitely!!
 
Mar 13, 2011 9:17 PM

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This is going to be a long post. I haven't really catch up with the thread because of all the forum bugs (MODS!!! ADMINS!!!) and a busy weekend IRL, so I'm going to reply to some earlier posts, both old and new.

Mod edit: Spoiler tags for long text
Modified by Saitoe, Mar 16, 2011 5:55 PM
 
Mar 14, 2011 12:24 AM

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Holy crap, they really tie in both the opening and ending songs so beautifully.
Seeing Homura's struggle to save Madoka is sooo sad )':
Evil QB.
Wow, Homura is sooo badass.

This anime is definitely vying for my fav of all time ^__^
 
Mar 14, 2011 12:26 AM

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Azrael_STX said:
If this episode should be compared to anything, it's
I agree with Higurashi's mind-fuck except this is more of the magical type VS Sci-fi and whatnot.

- BLOG - My Club- Easiest way to reach the rest of my thoughts!
 
Mar 14, 2011 12:44 AM

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And this confirms that Sayaka = Useless. HomuHomu-chan is <3
 
Mar 14, 2011 1:17 AM

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metamorphius said:
A possible ending in the final timeline:

http://asset.soup.io/asset/1556/1719_2d21_960.jpeg

I so ROFLed when I saw this on teh internetz aminute ago.


I quite like your sense of taste, in particular I like where that first picture is going.

Anyway, all can conclude that it's a perplexing plot. In speculating (and actual time-loop resolution), I think it's important to look at the constants and unknowns:

~Constants (What is hard, undeniable fact)~

- Homura Akemi's existence - She's the time traveller, she carries over the experiences of alternate timelines, will not stop until Modoka is saved
- Mami Tomoe's existence - She's already a Puella Magi and has been since before Homura's Save Point
- Sayaka Miki's existence - Potential Puella Magi, in love with Kyosuke and will likely have the same wish in each timeline
- Modoka Kaname's existence - Potential Puella Magi, makes it to Wulpurgis Night each timeline, ceases to be each timeline as of yet
- Kyoko Sakura's existence - Already a Puella Magi since before Homura's Save Point, pessimist (and/or realist)
- Incubator's existence - Has been presumably since Witches and Puella Magi were created, cannot die, will continue to farm for emotion until he meets his quota
- Witches and Puella Magi - Blah.
- Wulpurgis Night's approach - No matter what, it's coming. It's inevitable.

~Unknowns (What isn't known, what is flexible)~

- Sayaka's presence - Where was she in the original timeline?
- Sayaka's corruption and death - The truth about Puella Magi and Witches wasn't revealed in the original timeline, Sayaka's fall to despair isn't inevitable but highly likely
- Kyoko's presence - What was the reason for Kyoko and Mami's simultaneous presence in the second altered timeline? She came to usurp Mami's territory in the current timeline.
- Mami's death - How and when she dies is different in the timelines
- Kyoko's death - Same.
- Madoka's predisposition - She had a dream about the previous timeline, effect may accumulate and eventually cause change if loops continue
- Madoka's fate - Usually alternates between dying or becoming the greatest Witch

Yes, a Higurashi ending with all 5 girls being Puella Magi and present for Wulpurgis Night would be the happiest and most hopeful. That would be because they would stand the best chance of actually winning with triumph over it and Madoka not ceasing to exist. As for Madoka becoming a Puella Magi, I don't find that much of a problem with it as Kyubey will continue making Witches (thus there will always be Grief Seeds to prevent pollution) and the nakama will all relieve each other of their despair. Like in the usual mahou shoujo animes, the power of love and friendship can overcome the forces of darkness. It's something Akemi hasn't tried before either, having an entire party of allies as reinforcements. Honestly, even if it is a cop-out, I wish for the optimistic, happy ending where the protagonists are happy and get to live. >_<
 
Mar 14, 2011 1:42 AM

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FUCKING AWESOME !!!!

10/10

this is really good ep
now all my question has been answered

poor Homura T,T
 
Mar 14, 2011 5:22 AM
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KyoSaya pics below spoilers.
 
Mar 14, 2011 5:56 AM
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Paul said:
Anime title should be called Mahou Shoujo Homura★Magica.


Yeah! Homura FTW :)

My favorite anime from this season!
This episodes was great, I hope we have a happy ending in the last episode, but for what we see all the endings that Homura gets are bad, so I am afraid xD
 
Mar 14, 2011 7:16 AM
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g_animebr said:
Paul said:
Anime title should be called Mahou Shoujo Homura★Magica.


Yeah! Homura FTW :)

Check this out if you think that xD Great video.
 
Mar 14, 2011 7:29 AM

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Paul said:
Anime title should be called Mahou Shoujo Homura★Magica.


Good one!

I'd name it ''The tale of how Urobuchi Gen trolled everyone who expected to see the protagonist turn into mahou shoujo in the first episode, fight evil witches and enjoy cakes with her friends afterwards '' xD

Dusk252 said:

Check this out if you think that xD Great video.


Wow, someone's got talent.
 
Mar 14, 2011 9:29 AM

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Itsudemo_Ota-kun said:

- Sayaka Miki's existence - Potential Puella Magi, in love with Kyosuke and will likely have the same wish in each timeline
Not if you kill Hitomi, that would be easy for Akemi.

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Mar 14, 2011 9:32 AM
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Dusk252 said:
g_animebr said:
Paul said:
Anime title should be called Mahou Shoujo Homura★Magica.


Yeah! Homura FTW :)

Check this out if you think that xD Great video.


Wow! That's awesome, great video :D
 
Mar 14, 2011 11:18 AM

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kFYatek said:
BrickBreak said:
1- Regarding Homura's timeloop: I am wondering if it's voluntarily at all.

There are four possibilities:

A- It's voluntary ("Repeat. I'll repeat it no matter how many times."), and Homura will keep on going until she saves Madoka, dies, or turns into a wish.
B- It'is involuntary, and will end only when she accomplishes a certain key goal, most likely saving Madoka (but it might not be it, might be another unrelated goal: those who watched Day Break know what I'm talking about).
C- It's involuntary, and inescapable: she will be trapped in it forever, regardless of the outcome.
D- It's voluntary, not controlled by Homura, but by someone else - QB, obviously - and she is a mere pawn in the cycle, being used for whatever purposes he wants, and she merely thinks she is in control. This would explain the differences between the timelines that do not come from her direct action.

At the moment, I see them all as possible, with only option B being a little less likely than the others.

Why do you find option B least likely? Personally I find it most likely. That's what Homura wished for, anyway. Option C seems unlikely to me because of the fact that Homura wished to protect Madoka - if she manages to do that (Madoka dies naturally and peacefully - it's not like she's immortal anyway), why would Homura still have to be trapped in the time loop? I also can't see option D happening, because Kyubey is obviously not aware of the loop himself, as he has to realize Homura's from another timeline each time.


Hmm. You make some good points. I did post all of that at 1 am, however, so yeah, now I can see the inconsistencies xD


kFYatek said:
BrickBreak said:
2- "I gathered a lot more energy than our collection quota."

A possible explanation is very, very simple - Kyubey's society has limited resources to contain collected energy, and thus they wouldn't be able to do anything with energy exceeding the quota anyway, so Kyubey doesn't intend on collecting it - he'll return when they run out again, however.

Hmm. But in that case, they probably wouldn't be able to store Madoka's energy either.

And he wouldn't be coming back, because... well, Earth wouldn't be there anymore.

kFYatek said:
BrickBreak said:
3- Homura must have another source of information.

[...]

Very interesting interpretation. But don't you think that Homura revealing herself as cooperating with another Incubator would be kind of cheap? I mean, there's nothing wrong with it being canon, but I wouldn't like to see it in the actual anime.

As with a possible happy ending, it can be good or bad, depending on the execution.
And with that, I don't think we have to worry. After all, that's what's setting Madoka from other anime, at the moment. The plot is great, but it's not like it's the best thing ever.
It's execution and development, however, is.

kFYatek said:
BrickBreak said:
4 - Two questions for all of you.

Assume Homura has complete control over the time loops.

If she manages to completely save the world somehow, with Madoka dying (dying, not turning to witch) in the process, will she restart?

She did that, in Timeline 3. She killed Madoka at her own request, and the world was saved. And then she went back. That may mean one of two things: either she doesn't have control over the looping, or she wanted to loop.

Well, that's a thing I haven't been able to understand yet. Everyone is assuming Walpurgis was defeated one way or another every time, but I am not so sure. Only in timeline four is Walpurgis confirmed to be defeated, in the other ones, I am doubtful.

kFYatek said:
BrickBreak said:
And if she manages to save Madoka, but doom the world in the process, will she be satisfied and break the cycle?

I think so. In fact, if she saves Madoka, but the world is doomed, then Madoka would also be doomed and thus not saved.
True, but it was a mostly hypothetical scenario.

kFYatek said:
Ending speculah time! Madoka contracts Kyubey, her wish being "I wish that magic did not exist". The wish is granted. Kyubey is still there as an alien, but has no longer any interest in Earth, so he returns to his planet. All the witches cease to exist. All the remaining Puellae Magorum (Madoka, Homura, and those we haven't seen on screen) die, as their Soul Gems are no longer there, and their bodies have no soul in them. The Earth lives happily ever after, or rather until the Heat Death of the Universe. Then, in an after-credits scene, Kyubey says something like "Of course, humans are not the only species capable of having emotions". No, that'd imply that magic is still there. He says something that would imply him being not done with his mission, and that there's still plenty of methods for him to continue his job, on Earth or elsewhere.


It's a possibility, but I am not 100% sure they would die. 90, 95, but not 100. Because, after all, the Soul Gem contains their souls. And the souls aren't magical: they are pure human souls. They are simply outside the body, and imbued with magic.
Now, if that magic disappeared, would the soul perish along with it? Probably. But not certainly.


Which brings me to my next thought (full of them nowadays, for some reason. Must be getting pumped up from things going well in university): How exactly do Soul Gems work?

The obvious answer would be "DUH, err, it's their soul imbued with magic, get's dark with magic use, and will turn into a grief seed if they don't clean it, derp."

Not so fast. That magic corrupts the soul, and Grief Seeds are needed to clean it. Those are facts.
But let's not forgot the Soul Gems, regardless of their material nature, are souls. And human souls are quite complex things. After all, if they weren't, Kyubey would have no interest in them. We humans are beings ruled by emotion, even if we like to believe we are driven by reason. We have both positive and negative thoughts, happy and sad moments, and all events have an effect on our soul.

Taking you back to episode 7 and 8, Sayaka's demise. She continuously fought witches and familiars, abusing magic, refusing to take grief seeds to cleanse her soul, and it lead her to become a witch.
But we clearly saw that the use of magic wasn't the only thing that affecter her soul. Hitomi, Kamijou, and her dismay at regular humans clearly had a dark effect on her soul, and if it was not the main cause, it definitely accelerated her demise.

From that, we can conclude that negative feelings pollute one's Soul Gem.

Then, could it be, that the answer to a Puella's indefinite survival is the exact opposite? Can constant optimistic thought and cheering up by friends cleanse a Soul Gem, the same way doubt and regret pollute it?

I would like to think so.
"Tonight, I sit in the eye of the storm. As fire boils around me, I press forward, winds and lightning lashing my wings. I am no match for what I face. Yet I will not back down, and though fear may place it's stranglehold on my heart, courage will see me through. With tears in my eyes, I hit full throttle. My engines become an inferno, and my weapons light up, awaiting my command.

If I die tonight, I will do so fighting for everything I believe in."


 
Mar 14, 2011 12:06 PM

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Alright, a Homura-centric episode! I knew there had to be a reason I liked her from the beginning! After learning all she went through, I can't help but tear up a bit when I hear Homura's voice breaking as she pleads to Madoka at the end of episode eight. I just know I'm going to have to rewatch all this again when all the episodes are out.

I expect that this year's summer cons will have many, many Madoka Magica cosplayers. Including megane-Homura.

Anybody think that blank cat in scans and the opening will ever show up? Or is it just a troll from SHAFT?

 
Mar 14, 2011 12:16 PM
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Waffocopter said:
Waffocopter said:
Alright, a Homura-centric episode! I knew there had to be a reason I liked her from the beginning! After learning all she went through, I can't help but tear up a bit when I hear Homura's voice breaking as she pleads to Madoka at the end of episode eight. I just know I'm going to have to rewatch all this again when all the episodes are out.

I expect that this year's summer cons will have many, many Madoka Magica cosplayers. Including megane-Homura.

Anybody think that blank cat in scans and the opening will ever show up? Or is it just a troll from SHAFT?


I think that black cat is Homura.
 
Mar 14, 2011 12:31 PM

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Waffocopter said:

Anybody think that blank cat in scans and the opening will ever show up? Or is it just a troll from SHAFT?


Still not sure about that. On the one hand, I've been thinking that could be Homura herself ever since I saw that magazine cover. On the other hand, the last ep ED had both the cat and Homura together which may suggest they are different entities.


The third option you've mentioned - SHAFT trolling all of us who have too much free time to ponder about things like this - is not unlikely either.
So, obviously, I'm not being very helpful with answering the question for I'm still vacillating.

Oh, yea, she could somehow be related to Madoka's wish, whatever her wish is.
 
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