Gosick Episode 5 Discussion
Feb 5, 2011 8:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
so basically we have two kinds of viewers here, those that like it "spoon fed" and those that can literally think for themselves and do their homework. and those spoon fed guys likes it to be a full narrative explanation where every part of the deduction need to be explained because they can't comprehend it and in the end saying it is far fetched, a lucky guess, and unbelievable. and seriously this guys have never seen Sherlock Holmes w/c is what GOSICK is famously based into.
as for the book, this is the result of me doing some ''homework''
-Avril have found a book inside a crypt, basically she knows because Kujo told her Avril found it
-then Kujo found Avril going out of the library, seriously ''books + library" there is no better connection, and let's see if Avril would like to read the book in the library, why would she? she can read it anywhere, so there is one more reason why Avril would go the library, and that is what Victorica had her vision fixed into, it is to hide the book, a library full of tons of books with be a perfect place to hide one
-their school is famous for ''ghost stories'' and basically the people in there avoid places and things that fit in the conditions of those ''ghost stories''(Kujo). the library is indeed a perfect place to hide a book, but some student may accidentally take it out of curiosity so you need one place that literally no one would dare be so close for the book to be utterly invincible, and that's where "The 13th Step to Heaven" perfectly fits in since the people there actually believe in that ''ghost story".
basically it's just ''pure logic'' and proper mindset and knowledge that Victorica pulled out that so called "lucky guess" by our viewers here.
and about Maxim being the first Phantom Thief.
-Maxim died eight years ago.
-the first Phantom Thief vanished eight years ago.
-Maxim would return every spring in the school even though he's graduated.
-and the critical one, as Glaviel stated back in episode 4, "Rumors of swindling, blackmail and thievery followed him everywhere. He seemed to have disappeared in ''spring'' eight years ago." and now found dead in the crypts.
-Avril found a book in the crypts in the place Maxim died.
-Victorica found the book in the library and there found letter (a letter that has been supposed to be sent to Avril but not) and saw that ''stamp'', and that's when Victorica had a "grinny smile" in her face. because she knew that stamp costs a lot. (She already found out at that point that Avril is someone that is after that stamp.)
-the stamp that costs a lot has been found on the letter that has been found in a book that is found in the crypts after eight years where Maxim died w/c is a person that have rumors of "thievery" following his name and with our first Phantom Thief disappearing eight years ago. perfect fit. and the part where Victorica stated that the reason Maxim is returning every spring in the school to hide the merchandises he stole is basically because it fits with the letter w/ stamp that instead of being hidden is has been found along with him as he died along with Millie Marl in the ''spring of eight years ago". Victorica needs not to explain such things.
if you have watched BONES' Darker Than Black and finished it, it is a show where you have to do your homework because the show haven't got a habit of directly explaining things to it's viewers because the answers are already spread in the show in terms of symbolisms and conversations between characters.
and i now i wish BONES would make a troll stunt out of nowhere and make Sherlock Holmes himself appear in the show.
Iisan-kun said:well i remember that, i thought you were talking about this episode or the last, because we are in the middle of a new mini arc. anyways thanks for clearing that out and that part i've mentioned before definitely is "animation failure" ^^
I know what a red hearing is... and I wasn't talking about this mystery in the first two paragraphs.
I was talking about the theory I made in the second episode. I remember you even replying to it and saying that you thought it was an animation mistake. Memory loss much?
You didn't outright say it, but clearly it was an animation failure. Anyone who goes back and watches the scene will see it.
Modified by desolato, Feb 7, 2011 9:07 AM
Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch.
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Joined: Jul 2010
@Amber February - You may want to edit your posts together rather than constantly double/triple posting. Just a heads up before an actual mod says something. ;)
Iisan-kun said:I thought this mystery was better than the first one.
So who cares about the mysteries? Let's just have more scenes of Victorique throwing books on people!
...this anime is bad for that exact reason. Too bad I was expecting the mysteries to be interesting and actually matter, though it's obviously not like that.
Hell, maybe they will get better in the future... but wake me up when we get there.
The second mystery (is it considered the second mystery?) with the biker was pretty pathetic, yes, but it kind of clouded things up for me in the Avril mystery.
I didn't see the imposter thing coming - I thought it was still somehow connected to the biker incident and that Avril was actually the twin sister of the apprehended girl, or something along those lines.
Anyways, they're not the most impressive mysteries I've ever seen, but I think they are getting better. And I don't find this show unenjoyable at all, so it doesn't bother me that much.
belatkuro said:I think this contributes to why people dislike the mysteries as well.
It's not that the mystery is easy or hard, it's the way the solution to it was delivered. It lacks some kind of impact when it is being solved.
Modified by Iilia, Feb 5, 2011 1:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Victorique and Kujo are so cute together <3
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Feb 6, 2011 3:17 AM
This was a great episode although a little simplistic for the mystery. I am very much ashamed to admit that was completely trolled about my last large theory. I was right in a sense but Avril would have to be replaced with “fake”. That being said I advise people to be careful of throw offs like the biker story and the MOE of Victorique such as in the spoiler
That being said I find the real Avril very cute as seen from the following pic,
She is way more adorable than Kuiaran the second. Now to elaborate on this episode, I have to say that the culprit is a copycat of Kuiaran the 2nd. She was smart enough to use ghost stories as her own metaphors on her crime and hiding of the precious object. The Golden Fairy is just a analogy comparing to Victorique, it’s a throw off in this episode completely as was the biker last episode apart from what I mentioned it could be related to. From the very beginning I wondered how Grevil got word of a Phantom thief around the village less the culprit proclaimed herself of being proud of her copycat ideal. Regardless he sure was though of getting a large fortune but Grevil mentions he suddenly died or retired. Victorique pointed out quite well the whole story about him with a nice depiction of him. He was though of have caused a bad luck illness on Milli, perhaps why she fell in love with him apart from his beauty. The Academy was a ideal place to hide his things because everyone respected and knew him there.
Following through I knew it was the culprit that hit Kujo when he lost conscious. That book was too obvious to be hidden. Coincidentally Kujo was found by the culprit herself, which easily asked assistance from a strong male. The sudden expression of the culprit regarding Kujo’s panic of searching for the book was the immediate obvious give away. I also knew that he ghost story was in fact a metaphor meaning something else like this, which insinuates that there is a person in there. I deducted by a changing meanings. Judging by another expression of Kuiaran the 2nd she is interested in the Golden Fairy book. It could be that with this the culprit knew of Victorique somehow but was not sure until Kujo proved her wrong and her expression changed. Comes the differentiation of both in the spoiler
So being about the stamp back in the 1924s I think stamps were not invented that long ago thus why the first world stamp may have been stolen back in the 1916s. For that stamp to mean that much to the culprit for her going as far as choking Kujo to death by most likely trying to kill him through sending him on the stairs, it must be worth a lot. In the end Victorique saving Kujo’s ass by throwing all these books on the culprit made the day for me. That was a nice effort of her.
Rest in spoiler
About Victorique, I think her deduction about the shelf’s content and floor position based on just the 13th step urban legend were terrific. Her intuition of what the 13th step is and of the specific shelf’s reason for its name were deducted so easily. I laughed at her denial of reading with Kujo. It got me weirder that Victorique though the chocolate as dog poop should I say but she was cute at that part. I really love most of all, her expression when she was about to throw the books at the culprit. It was so angry yet cute. I liked her hiding spot a lot with its little treats and lamp. You all should know that Victorique was most likely pestered by the government in the beginning until Grevil decided to do something about it and so why she does not like other people coming in that she does not know less she does like Kujo through most likely rumors. Loved it when to her Kujo is only a manservant.
About the Golden Fairy, it was just a old tale to throw you all off. First of all the following reference is directly associated with Victorique’s qualities. Even her appearance was kind of like Victorique, white skin and blond long hair. I did like that Kujo refused the “Soul Eating” part only to replace it with sweets since he knew it was about Victorique. In the end of the legend it was beautifully though out by Kujo being with Victorique because she needed like the fairy, a eternal soul.
About Grevil, in this episode I know for sure he will get credit again for saving the real Avril since Kujo left him to rescue her. What I did find interesting is his reaction when they were talking about the Phantom thief and Kujo mentions Victorique to him as well his attitude change. He really is hiding something in regards to his feelings about her.
About Kujo/Cecile, Kujo had some comedy when that squirrel incident was mentioned with Grevil. He did a really good job of defending Victorique. I think his adventure with Cecile proved bad. Cecile herself is dead scared of ghost stories and the paranormal. At the mention of them she looks like she faints right away. I do think, however that she looks good without glasses.
About miscellaneous stuff, just to quickly point out that the view of the entire campus was well shown and nice. Avril considering Kujo as a black haired Prince was so ironic with his the Dark Reaper title, however Cecile encouraging him to go out with her was better. Guess a close up of the letter really just tells that her grand-father wanted her to get a fortune with the stamp and travel the world.
Modified by Yumekichi11, Feb 6, 2011 3:31 AM
Feb 6, 2011 5:57 AM
Feb 6, 2011 9:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
You've read too much Umineko, you silly Will fan. It's possible to uncover the truth without too many clues given. Just look at Bernkastel, she managed to give us the truth at the end of EP7. :>
Yeah, maybe Umineko is killing me xDD.
Modified by desolato, Feb 7, 2011 9:08 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
The mystery was over too quickly and after they found the postcard in the book it was easy to tell that Avril was the criminal. However I thought that there might be another explanation since she appears on the OP, meaning that she would appear regularly.
Anyway, this episode served to strengthen the relationship between our two main characters.
yeah your right it was solve to quickly i was expecting Avril to be a criminal but i didn't expect is she was a fake
Feb 6, 2011 9:18 PM
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Explain to me how a lady like Avril(fake) can overpower Kujo. Especially the part where she strangles him. Dude not cool.
Feb 7, 2011 12:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Pretty good episode.... But Victorique's some logics just don't make sense.... :P
someone is fighting for you.
As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
Feb 7, 2011 6:05 PM
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Feb 8, 2011 12:07 AM
Feb 8, 2011 1:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Pretty good episode.... But Victorique's some logics just don't make sense.... :P
"By the time you figure out what was wrong with that, it won't matter anymore!"
Half an hour after the show is over, A. Random Viewer is staring into his refrigerator, vaguely bemused by the fact that his six-pack of beer has somehow become a two-pack of beer. Rather than work out how this might have happened, it occurs to him to wonder how in the hell Sydney Bristow went from Hungary to Melbourne, Australia, then to LA, all within 24 hours.
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AmberFebruary said:Nice explanation for the stamp! So it means that first world stamp was around 84 years old and making it the first, I would not imagine any less its immense fortune and how much would it be worth in the currency of that time, whatever may be that currency of the factious country.
Those in question of the stamp
"Postage stamps have been carrying the mails of the world to their destinations since the 1840s. Before this time, ink and hand-stamps (hence the word 'stamp'), usually made from wood or cork, were often used to frank the mail and confirm the payment of postage. The first adhesive postage stamp, commonly referred to as the "Penny Black", was issued in the United Kingdom in 1840. The invention of the stamp was a part of the attempt to reform and improve the postal system in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, which in the early 19th century was in disarray and rife with corruption.There are varying accounts of the inventor or inventors of the stamp."
it existed since 1840.
as for those in question of why the hell the Fake Avril did not just runaway with that expensive stamp, because it was not her "real target" she infiltrated the academy as Avril Bradley because of Sir Bradley's Legacy that is said to have been left in the academy, that's why she hid the book first in a place no one would dare look but she found out Kujo found the book that's why she started looking for the stamp because it cannot be found when she check the book Kujo had taken.
as for the reason on why Victorica deducted that Kujo saw the criminal not knowing he did back in episode 4
"Sexually speaking, men in particular 'may be driven to nurse their fantasies by looking at films and strip-tease shows, or by day-dreaming over pornographic material" - Fantasy (psychology)
so basically, Kujo is fantasizing to find a girlfriend in that country (any will do)
and now that morning she is tasked to buy some goods and is walking by the roadside,and now, not knowing he did (since humans are visually conscious of his surroundings, you might think we really just see straight ahead but our field of vision is almost at 180 degrees) he saw a "blonde haired girl", this drive his fantasizing to activate resulting in his daydreaming state, where is wishing to find a girlfriend in that country, and now for a noticeable feature this girl "might" have, she unconsciously remembered "the blonde hair" of the girl that drive his daydreaming.
that's why as Victorica stated,
"It has to do with your shameful daydream.
Human are visual creatures. They react to stimuli that the eye can see.
so why did you, of all people, begin lusting and daydreaming on the roadside this morning?
You saw a girl with a blonde hair from the corner of your eye.
That's why it showed up in your daydream.
You saw the murderer without knowing you did."
it's pure "psychological reasoning" and if not satisfied with it, go deeper to the realm of psychology w/c i have no plan to do. A girl like Victorica knowing it puts me to shame. ^^
as for the capture of the culprit, it's just one factor that Victorica have spouted.
you still have that "wounded fingers" and "surgical hospital"(as shown in the blood at the end of the wire, it's not just a wound but a "cut") so tying the three things up, you have your murderer.
and as for the criminal's method and unto why Glaviel skipped that possibility
it is because as Victorica stated is a "elaborate method"
i mean who would dare cut of a head of a moving bike's rider with a wire
tying the wire across the road is simple but the wire to reach the proper height for the most vulnerable part of the body upon such velocity, "the neck" for instant kill
reaching that point of height requires a lot of tries or elaborate planning (she may have tried it on other passersby).
I concur your psychology statement, having been in College, you reminded me of some of my courses. Anyways I will be looking at you for some interesting analyzing and will try to focus some replies towards you. I think your stuff is good for this series. Thumbs up man! Keep it up!
Feb 8, 2011 2:26 PM
Feb 8, 2011 9:48 PM
Cenedess said:To have epic centric Sherlock Homes feeling. I kind of do but with MOE since Victorica is MOE. Real Sherlock Holmes is opposite, he is bad ass, serious and fights with his fist.
...what is the purpose of that smoking pipe if it's never actually smoked? -.-