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lol this guy is saying LOGH is not perfect |
 |
| It isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. Also, am I the only guy who thinks Julian is an okay character? Sure he isn't as awesome as Yang, Reinhard, Reuenthal, or Oberstein but..wasn't that kind of the point? |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I always get the feeling that Julian is overrated, most people seem to like him very much while I thought he was kinda "pale" inc omparison to all the other main characters. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
insan3soldiern said: It isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. Are you sure you are one of us? Also, am I the only guy who thinks Julian is an okay character? Sure he isn't as awesome as Yang, Reinhard, Reuenthal, or Oberstein but..wasn't that kind of the point? Higashi_no_Kaze said: I always get the feeling that Julian is overrated, most people seem to like him very much while I thought he was kinda "pale" inc omparison to all the other main characters. You two have NOT been reading my posts in previous episodes obviously nor were you (and I) expected (you) to |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| Julian is fine. Not everyone in LoGH should be awesome intelligent perfect etc etc otherwise it would not be realistic. Unless you want LoGH to become TTGL 2 |
|
Luthimal said: insan3soldiern said: It isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. Also, am I the only guy who thinks Julian is an okay character? Sure he isn't as awesome as Yang, Reinhard, Reuenthal, or Oberstein but..wasn't that kind of the point? Yeah, but what does that leave him as? The show even talks about how he only exists as a shadow of Yang, and I don't think he ever moves past that. It's not really bad so much as boring in comparison, like reading the final volume of the Three Kingdoms where everyone interesting has died and we're left with shallow replacements. Come to think of it, I remember they had a scene where some drunk guy pretty much said that. Julian agreed, and received no more development since the show ended like 3 episodes later. The purpose of characters like him and Mittermeyer was that they were, for all intents and purposes, the normal joes when compared to the heroic larger than life characters like Yang and the others I've already mentioned. Ironically, and probably intentionally, all these "heroes" died young. I think the intention for a character like Julian is exactly what you get, a historian who lives in the shadow of this iconic character and just takes care of the rest. I don't think Julian himself gives a damn about standing out, like Yang, and I think it's the viewers fault for probably thinking he would turn out to be as "great" as Yang. So, to summarize, their may be some "faults" with this series but Julian is in no way one of them. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I'll agree about the Terraists they could have done a much better job with them, I think. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Luthimal said: Like I said these things feel more like nitpicks, Julian most of all. The real problems come up with stuff like cartoony villains who undermine the show's trademark moral ambiguity. I mean it goes to such lengths to portray different factions fairly, and then Terraists? At the risk of sounding like an apologetic fanboy, I think i should add my own two cents: The cultist were shallow, idiotic and cliched, and there wasnt much depth to them or their motives. But lets face it, thats also how it is in the real world. All these terrorists/cultist they're all the same; every society and religion , in every age almost without fail, has a 'lunatic fringe' or two. If you happen to read the "statements" of modern day terrorsits belonging to some "lunatic fringe" in the news, their reasons and motives sound so ridiculously retarded that its hard to belive people like that could actually exist. The cold hard truth is that shallow, cartoony, mindless zombies do exist among us, despite the fact that their existence defies every sense of our logic and reason. As for Julian, he was just a normal kid barely 16 if I'm not mistaken. The whole "passing the torch to the next generation" thing is quite popular as a theme, and especially was a catchy idea back in the late 70s and 80s. Star wars, Gundam, Godfather etc, they all did it in some form or the other. And I think lotgh does it really well too. None of the protoganists in those movies/series were kickass or heroic people; Michael corleon was not even half as badass as his father, Amuro is really hated by modern anime fans for being too "immature" (just check the MSG ep threads for proof), and luke skywalker paled in comparison with Obi Wan. i guess making the "torchbearer" seem more vunerable or fragile helps create a sense of reality, in a sense that thats exactly what each generation faces in the real world. In julians defense, his personality makes absolute sense seeing how he spent a huge chunk of his life under the shadow of a genius, and the company of other exceptional people. Besides, he's not even out of his teens yet; people dont mature at that age usually. Sure, reinhard was kicking ass long before that, but the series already set him apart from the rest as a special case (i.e nutjob lol). as a side-note, I agree on karin being a bad romantic interest for julian though :P |
eyerokMar 27, 2011 9:48 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| well I guess the series was essentially going for a different pitch than both Godfather or star wars (they're really worlds apart) with the next-generation theme (which was just one among many themes), and the fact that both star wars and godfather are movie trilogies and not 100 + ep series is not that important either. What I'm trying to say is, where mike and luke were central to their respective stories, Julian is only one of the many important drivers. thats one reason i think Lotgh does that aspect relatively well, despite the story having so many changing dimensions to it. But the scale of it and its artistic ambition also means that many people would focus more on the smaller apparent failings rather than the larger picture that it goes for. That is probably one reason why lotgh never could enjoy mainstream popularity. As for the cultist, I think the mistake they made was showing cultism in a way that could probably be misconstrued as representing religion or religious quarters of society. I dont think they were going for that, but only focussing specifically on the "extreme" social phenomenon of cultism, which is essentially different from "mainstream religion". But then again, I do agree that it was too one-dimensional and could have been worked up to be better. Luthimal said: Historically, ideas are successful when they appeal to people's selfish questions. The earth cult doesn't help people get over death, tell people what is or isn't moral, or give any answers really. Instead of creating a believable cause, the writers tried justifying the cult's base with drug addiction. cults dont do that, thats the work of religion. And thats exactly what i mean when I say that lotgh reflect the reality: wikipedia said: The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.[1] The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The narrower, derogatory sense of the word is a product of the 20th century, especially since the 1980s, and is considered subjective. It is also a result of the anti-cult movement which uses the word in reference to groups seen as authoritarian, exploitative and that are believed to use dangerous rituals or mind control. The word implies a group which is a minority in a given society Studies performed by those who believe that some religious groups do practice mind control have identified a number of key steps in coercive persuasion:[31][32] 1.People are put in physical or emotionally distressing situations; 2.Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized; 3.They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader or group; 4.They get a new identity based on the group; 5.They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.[33] This view is disputed by scholars such as James Gene[34] and Bette Nove Evans.[35] Society for the Scientific Study of Religion[36] stated in 1990 that there was not sufficient research to permit a consensus on the matter and that "one should not automatically equate the techniques involved in the process of physical coercion and control with those of nonphysical coercion and control". and drugs are used as mind control tool by the cultists in lotgh |
eyerokMar 27, 2011 3:15 PM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| I suppose you're right, its just semantics. One-dimensional they may be, it didnt really bother me or didnt appear to be a flaw because I always felt the FPA, Empire and Phezzan were more central, and, well, in retrospect I think I'm OK with how they handled the terraists because of what i posted above, and also because I thought their cliched "evilness" contrasting with the moral ambiguity of the other sides was a bit amusing (in a good way) where normally in any other anime it would have been a huge put-off. I didnt take it too seriously I guess They couldve made the terraist more complex but I'm not really sure how that wouldve worked out since throughout the 4th season i felt the story could fall apart any moment due to its own weight. Any more attempts at making things more complicated might have backfired. Season 1 and 4 appeared to me the most flawed, maybe 4 more so. but in the end I think its forgiveable because of the sheer size of what the writer(s) attempt to do. I dunno... Not sure what to think of LOTR example, I suppose in a way lotgh is more vast in terms of plot and characters (unless youre counting the mythology Tolkien created). Also, I think that tolkien did much more for literature than lotgh did for anime in terms of influence, and, I dare say, and its artistic achievement is on a much higher scale compared to the flaws it has as a result (just my personal opinion). Maybe its more due to lotgh being the longest OVA coupled with the fact that the show isnt really suitable for normal TV broadcast due to the amount of plot threads, depth of the story, cast etc. that it didnt go above the cult status even within Japan. not sure, but stuff like that happens even in hollywood. There are a lot of movies that were a commercial failure but developed a strong cult following later on. As things stand, Lotghs case is unique among anime cult hits, being only fansubbed in 2008 (I think), with zero popularity backing it up... Sorry about, got a bit carried away :P |
eyerokMar 28, 2011 2:25 PM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| People watch LOTR for the plot? I watched it for the action :D |
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SuperSaiyen said: People watch LOTR for the plot? I watched it for the action :D No offense, but it seems you watch everything for the action. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3soldiern said: SuperSaiyen said: People watch LOTR for the plot? I watched it for the action :D No offense, but it seems you watch everything for the action. yea, if its action you want, go watch a porno !! (just kidding) |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Who said I don't watch porno ? :D insan3soldiern said: SuperSaiyen said: People watch LOTR for the plot? I watched it for the action :D No offense, but it seems you watch everything for the action. I was 15 years old when I watched LOTR, so yeah... |
|
| Na First season I watched it because of Reinhard x Keicheis and Oberstein is a cool gangsta 2nd and 3rd : because of Yang Wenli, because it's nice to see Reinhard getting owned because he's obviously a noob who can't do a 1 vs 10 against Yang Wenli. Also waiting for Reinhard's death 4rd : I've been waiting for Reinhard's death. Best scene was his death in the last episode :D |
|
SuperSaiyen said: Na First season I watched it because of Reinhard x Keicheis and Oberstein is a cool gangsta 2nd and 3rd : because of Yang Wenli, because it's nice to see Reinhard getting owned because he's obviously a noob who can't do a 1 vs 10 against Yang Wenli. Also waiting for Reinhard's death 4rd : I've been waiting for Reinhard's death. Best scene was his death in the last episode :D Confucius is going to hate you... |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Luthimal said: But if including a legitimate faction is too much for the story, I'd rather not have it than be presented an extremely simple, cliched version. I feel like the wrong call was made there, and it's hard to ignore because cultists are responsible for a shitload of plot developments. ! I know what you mean; It bothered some others too, on varying levels. But personally it didnt bother me too much SuperSaiyen said: Best scene was his death in the last episode :D nah..fat chicks in that history ep for me :P seriously though, I completely agree with you, but for a completely different reason |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
mellors said: I'm not going to use that forum signature though :P Oh cmon...be a sport! |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
mellors said: Difficult to put into many words what I felt about the end of this series, so I'll just applaud it. Given the length, the problems were pretty few and far between, largely only nitpicks and easily overriden by the scale, ambition and huge quality of the writing. 10/10... I'm not going to use that forum signature though :P I don't blame you. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Who said you can have it in your signature? Your elitism level is way too low right now. |
|
SuperSaiyen said: Who said you can have it in your signature? Your elitism level is way too low right now. Are you kidding? My elitism level is over 9000. I just have the nifty ability to suppress it. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Not you. mellors |
SuperSaiyenMar 31, 2011 1:43 PM
|
| You don't even have LOGH characters in your favorite character. |
|
SuperSaiyen said: Not you. mellors Well, that was a DBZ reference wasted...Fuck. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Excellent series, all the characters were superb. It was a grand stage full of grand actors, this series above all else deserves to be called a masterpiece. 10/10 |
Grimm3r said: Excellent series, all the characters were superb. It was a grand stage full of grand actors, this series above all else deserves to be called a masterpiece. 10/10 Add a character and the Anime to your list and you can come to the dark side anytime |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| A nice ending to the series, the loose ends that needed to be tied up were all accounted for. The thing I was most impressed with in terms of this episode and the forth season as a whole was Oberstein. In general, I saw him as a cold and calculating individual who was fiercely loyal. Although no change in his character occurred in the final season, I guess you can say that I became a lot more receptive to the straightforward and logical approach he took. Sorta upsetting that he died as well in the end. Though I suppose it was a necessary occurrence for democracy or constitutionalism to have a more realistic chance in the future. For the series as a whole, there is nothing more I can do than add to the glowing praise it has already received. In my mind there is no contest, this is easily the best show I have seen to date. |
| Humour is the very essence of a democratic society. |
| Oberstein. |
| my favourite is Reinhard i think the empire side was far more entertaining than the alliance and they had the better characters.i dont think that wang was smart at all,he just had a huge amout of luck.the way he predits whats would happen before it did was way to god like.some times i find myself shouting how did you know that .like the prediction of the coup i was like come on !on the other hand the empire showed step by step plans that made you say ok that might work.then wang is like oh this is how they will do it and im like how do you know?he does it all the time.and for how great he is he couldnt predict his own assination.dont get me wrong i like wang but he seem a little to unreal to me .anyway it was a great show when Reinhard died i cried like a baby we watch his step by step rise to the throne it was an awesome journey |
 |
hack5 said: my favourite is Reinhard i think the empire side was far more entertaining than the alliance and they had the better characters.i dont think that wang was smart at all,he just had a huge amout of luck.the way he predits whats would happen before it did was way to god like.some times i find myself shouting how did you know that .like the prediction of the coup i was like come on !on the other hand the empire showed step by step plans that made you say ok that might work.then wang is like oh this is how they will do it and im like how do you know?he does it all the time.and for how great he is he couldnt predict his own assination.dont get me wrong i like wang but he seem a little to unreal to me .anyway it was a great show when Reinhard died i cried like a baby we watch his step by step rise to the throne it was an awesome journey How the hell do you watch a 110 episode series and not even realize realize his name is Yang? And, I'm fairly certain they did show how he came up with the plans throughout the series. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| actually, I'm pretty sure his name is Wang Yenli |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
insan3soldiern said: hack5 said: my favourite is Reinhard i think the empire side was far more entertaining than the alliance and they had the better characters.i dont think that wang was smart at all,he just had a huge amout of luck.the way he predits whats would happen before it did was way to god like.some times i find myself shouting how did you know that .like the prediction of the coup i was like come on !on the other hand the empire showed step by step plans that made you say ok that might work.then wang is like oh this is how they will do it and im like how do you know?he does it all the time.and for how great he is he couldnt predict his own assination.dont get me wrong i like wang but he seem a little to unreal to me .anyway it was a great show when Reinhard died i cried like a baby we watch his step by step rise to the throne it was an awesome journey How the hell do you watch a 110 episode series and not even realize realize his name is Yang? And, I'm fairly certain they did show how he came up with the plans throughout the series. my bad i guess that shows my lack of interest in the alliance but some sub i have had his name as wang or its could be my own pet name for him |
hack5Apr 18, 2011 5:17 AM
| |
| oh wait a minute...dont tell me you watched the cheap bootleg subs. No wonder yang wenli didnt make any sense...only C-A subs can capture the full depth and beauty of his dialogues :P |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| To the guy who said 'I feel proud being an anime fan', you're not alone. For I'm too tired after the end of this journey, keeping it simple, LoGH is the best thing that happened to me since I joined MAL. Yes, even more so than chancing upon manga masterpieces like YKK / Nausicaa. May expand my post when I feel like it in future. |
koreye said: actually, I'm pretty sure his name is Wang Yenli Yang teitoku |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| I don't even know what to say, just wow on this show. it wasn't the most entertaining anime of all time. But it's the best made, as in live-action tv couldn't even compare to the sheer amount of complexity, depth and maturity that this animated series had. Good times. |
 |
hack5 said: my favourite is Reinhard i think the empire side was far more entertaining than the alliance I agree. Just finished rewatching this show, and it's still as awesome as the first time. If I would rank the seasons I would probably rank them like this: S2 > S3 > S1 > S4 |
HydraA said: hack5 said: my favourite is Reinhard i think the empire side was far more entertaining than the alliance I agree. Just finished rewatching this show, and it's still as awesome as the first time. If I would rank the seasons I would probably rank them like this: S2 > S3 > S1 > S4 See eyerok |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| that doesn't prove anything! |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
Confucius said: See eyerok Sorry, I'm not sure I follow you right now. :P |
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