| I just wanted to say that a well-developed and good character in general doesn't necessarilly need to show a backstory in the course of the story. I mean, even mysterious characters whose past we know little about can be good characters. |
maazu said: I just wanted to say that a well-developed and good character in general doesn't necessarilly need to show a backstory in the course of the story. I mean, even mysterious characters whose past we know little about can be good characters. That's true! Although most of the time you get to know at least parts of the past as the story progresses. Afterall it makes the character who she/he is now. I think the criteria Shiharu listed are very good and I also partly agree with maazu. Too bad Shiharu isn't on MAL anymore or so it seems. @maazu you mentioned that you wanted to create your own club since this one was so outdated. How about joining the admins of this club? Judging from your posts I think it would be good to have you ;) If possible and there's still interest, I'd like to add at least 2 more people. I believe it wouldn't hurt -given the topic- if some of them were female though... |
maazu said: I just wanted to say that a well-developed and good character in general doesn't necessarilly need to show a backstory in the course of the story. I mean, even mysterious characters whose past we know little about can be good characters. Yep, I agree with that too. The back story is not necessarily important, the shroud becomes a shield, and even if you know they may have some turning point, it need not be the point that defines the character. Having said that, I actually don't know of any female characters that fit this. All I can think of is the Hollywood movie 'Taken' and Liam Neeson who is so damn awesome, even after 3 series of the film, his cover isn't revealed. Which also makes you think it's no longer necessary because his actions now speak enough to what he is capable of. Kyouya from Ookami Shoujo to Kuro Ouji also partly has that shroud, but then again, it's a guy. In terms of what a criteria could be, perhaps the kind of outlook of life they have. How they perceive, which may may or may not refer to being 'philosophically inclined'. It could be one who understands herself, who is self-reflective. It could also be someone who understands others or the complexity of the situation. Oregairu is a good series in this sense, the three main characters (two female, one male) are constantly thinking about the relationships around them and analysing their own positions. Yui is just starting to develop though after the end of S2, but Yukino and Hachiman have their resolves clashing. |
| _____ _ _ ______ Within pain, there is desire. _____ _ _ ______ |
Kundalini said: maazu said: I just wanted to say that a well-developed and good character in general doesn't necessarilly need to show a backstory in the course of the story. I mean, even mysterious characters whose past we know little about can be good characters. Yep, I agree with that too. The back story is not necessarily important, the shroud becomes a shield, and even if you know they may have some turning point, it need not be the point that defines the character. Having said that, I actually don't know of any female characters that fit this. All I can think of is the Hollywood movie 'Taken' and Liam Neeson who is so damn awesome, even after 3 series of the film, his cover isn't revealed. Which also makes you think it's no longer necessary because his actions now speak enough to what he is capable of. Kyouya from Ookami Shoujo to Kuro Ouji also partly has that shroud, but then again, it's a guy. In terms of what a criteria could be, perhaps the kind of outlook of life they have. How they perceive, which may may or may not refer to being 'philosophically inclined'. It could be one who understands herself, who is self-reflective. It could also be someone who understands others or the complexity of the situation. Oregairu is a good series in this sense, the three main characters (two female, one male) are constantly thinking about the relationships around them and analysing their own positions. Yui is just starting to develop though after the end of S2, but Yukino and Hachiman have their resolves clashing. Ok both of you have convinced me that info on their pasts isn't absolutely necessary. I also agree with the rest for the most part, but are you sure about this? "It could also be someone who understands others or the complexity of the situation." I can't help but think that characters like that might be possible who are merely tools for the narrative, but lack personality themselves. self-reflective, how they perceive etc. are very good signs I guess. Hmmm... So basically when the character seems to be alive... I think it's good to have criteria, but they're very difficult to define. Nana is a high standard. I wonder how far below we should get. In the other thread I mentioned Yona (only talking about the first season anime). She's certainly everything but bad and there's character development going on too, but I don't think that she lives up to the Nanas or some of the Oniisama characters (as it is at the moment, that may change in season 2 of course). On the other hand, although opinions differ, I could imagine that many people looking for decent female characters would be satisfied with Yona, but is this enough? Also something else which bothers me a little: Are we going to especially look at relationships? The club's name suggests relationships... I would imagine that the creator had romantic relationships in mind if we consider her Nana example, but other types of relationships might be okay too I guess. Or are the characters themselves enough? For example while Nike in Soredemo is a very strong character (although she is much less detailed than the Nanas you also have to take into account that the anime is more of a comedy and very short), the lovestory in this anime isn't outstanding (apart from the fact that we have a female who's not easily subdued even inside the relationship for once, but quite the opposite, which is rare :( ) |
granuli said: I also agree with the rest for the most part, but are you sure about this? "It could also be someone who understands others or the complexity of the situation." I can't help but think that characters like that might be possible who are merely tools for the narrative, but lack personality themselves. True, they can be simply a tool, now that you mention it. So I guess a character who is not just a tool but has a personality too, who takes certain decisions, and perhaps changes the flow of sequences? Reminds me of Shouko from Koe no Katachi. granuli said: Nana is a high standard. I wonder how far below we should get. In the other thread I mentioned Yona (only talking about the first season anime). She's certainly everything but bad and there's character development going on too, but I don't think that she lives up to the Nanas or some of the Oniisama characters (as it is at the moment, that may change in season 2 of course). On the other hand, although opinions differ, I could imagine that many people looking for decent female characters would be satisfied with Yona, but is this enough? Nana is DEFINITELY a high target! :) Yona, in the anime, she JUST starts gaining shape. S2 would outline her more. S3 would really show her shape. That's why I added the manga and not the anime, because in the manga you see how and what all it takes to mould her. By word, she is someone to look up to! Kusanagi-sensei has done quite well with the story. granuli said: Also something else which bothers me a little: Are we going to especially look at relationships? The club's name suggests relationships... I would imagine that the creator had romantic relationships in mind if we consider her Nana example, but other types of relationships might be okay too I guess. Or are the characters themselves enough? For example while Nike in Soredemo is a very strong character (although she is much less detailed than the Nanas you also have to take into account that the anime is more of a comedy and very short), the lovestory in this anime isn't outstanding (apart from the fact that we have a female who's not easily subdued even inside the relationship for once, but quite the opposite, which is rare :( ) I've been wondering that since I started adding series. I was like.. ummm.. kickass females AND relationships? How do we differentiate character series from relationship series? Wouldn't that need another club? Or we pick characters for only characters and the series relation signifies relationships. Though people won't easily get that. Maybe have a sticky topic that lists the database out. But that's too complex for the upkeep. What would you suggest? |
| _____ _ _ ______ Within pain, there is desire. _____ _ _ ______ |
Kundalini said: granuli said: I also agree with the rest for the most part, but are you sure about this? "It could also be someone who understands others or the complexity of the situation." I can't help but think that characters like that might be possible who are merely tools for the narrative, but lack personality themselves. True, they can be simply a tool, now that you mention it. So I guess a character who is not just a tool but has a personality too, who takes certain decisions, and perhaps changes the flow of sequences? Reminds me of Shouko from Koe no Katachi. I'd agree with that :) Sorry for the late reply! Kundalini said: granuli said: Nana is a high standard. I wonder how far below we should get. In the other thread I mentioned Yona (only talking about the first season anime). She's certainly everything but bad and there's character development going on too, but I don't think that she lives up to the Nanas or some of the Oniisama characters (as it is at the moment, that may change in season 2 of course). On the other hand, although opinions differ, I could imagine that many people looking for decent female characters would be satisfied with Yona, but is this enough? Nana is DEFINITELY a high target! :) Yona, in the anime, she JUST starts gaining shape. S2 would outline her more. S3 would really show her shape. That's why I added the manga and not the anime, because in the manga you see how and what all it takes to mould her. By word, she is someone to look up to! Kusanagi-sensei has done quite well with the story. Understood! This is very interesting, looking very much forward to that :) I can't wait to watch the next season, I hope there will be one. Otherwise I guess I really have to get into reading manga :P Kundalini said: granuli said: Also something else which bothers me a little: Are we going to especially look at relationships? The club's name suggests relationships... I would imagine that the creator had romantic relationships in mind if we consider her Nana example, but other types of relationships might be okay too I guess. Or are the characters themselves enough? For example while Nike in Soredemo is a very strong character (although she is much less detailed than the Nanas you also have to take into account that the anime is more of a comedy and very short), the lovestory in this anime isn't outstanding (apart from the fact that we have a female who's not easily subdued even inside the relationship for once, but quite the opposite, which is rare :( ) I've been wondering that since I started adding series. I was like.. ummm.. kickass females AND relationships? How do we differentiate character series from relationship series? Wouldn't that need another club? Or we pick characters for only characters and the series relation signifies relationships. Though people won't easily get that. Maybe have a sticky topic that lists the database out. But that's too complex for the upkeep. What would you suggest? Hmm, maybe it's not that big of a problem. I think stuff with really well written characters isn't THAT common and well written female characters even less, or am I mistaken? Since I don't read any manga I can't really contribute to that question. But if it's scarce anyway, then I think your suggestion with the sticky thread is great! Maybe it's indeed too much work, but I generally often wondered when looking at clubs about the specific reasons why something was added. We could have a thread documenting why an anime/character or manga was added. But even if this is too much work, then I guess a thread only featuring the titles with both: well written female characters + deep/great relationships could work out, don't you think? As there wouldn't be that many titles anyway.... (or so I think) |
granuli said: Hmm, maybe it's not that big of a problem. I think stuff with really well written characters isn't THAT common and well written female characters even less, or am I mistaken? Since I don't read any manga I can't really contribute to that question. But if it's scarce anyway, then I think your suggestion with the sticky thread is great! Maybe it's indeed too much work, but I generally often wondered when looking at clubs about the specific reasons why something was added. We could have a thread documenting why an anime/character or manga was added. But even if this is too much work, then I guess a thread only featuring the titles with both: well written female characters + deep/great relationships could work out, don't you think? As there wouldn't be that many titles anyway.... (or so I think) Actually, yes. Even I would like to know why a club would feature a certain series. Because not everyone may be inclined to the perspective we share, even if we're part of the same club. So as admins who are curating this list, I think this is an effective and immersive way to get information and takes out to people. Let's start with the basic list division first. And as and when we get time, we can add 1-2 lines of why we think the series fits into this category. Let's also feature this thread on the club's page, so anyone who stumbles in will know there's a small treasure of info awaiting them. :) |
| _____ _ _ ______ Within pain, there is desire. _____ _ _ ______ |
Kundalini said: granuli said: Hmm, maybe it's not that big of a problem. I think stuff with really well written characters isn't THAT common and well written female characters even less, or am I mistaken? Since I don't read any manga I can't really contribute to that question. But if it's scarce anyway, then I think your suggestion with the sticky thread is great! Maybe it's indeed too much work, but I generally often wondered when looking at clubs about the specific reasons why something was added. We could have a thread documenting why an anime/character or manga was added. But even if this is too much work, then I guess a thread only featuring the titles with both: well written female characters + deep/great relationships could work out, don't you think? As there wouldn't be that many titles anyway.... (or so I think) Actually, yes. Even I would like to know why a club would feature a certain series. Because not everyone may be inclined to the perspective we share, even if we're part of the same club. So as admins who are curating this list, I think this is an effective and immersive way to get information and takes out to people. Let's start with the basic list division first. And as and when we get time, we can add 1-2 lines of why we think the series fits into this category. Let's also feature this thread on the club's page, so anyone who stumbles in will know there's a small treasure of info awaiting them. :) Awesome!! Let's do this (if noone is totally against it). |
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