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Poll: Shiki Episode 21 Discussion


Dec 23, 2010 4:30 PM

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bakuramariks said:
I came to like Seishin with this episode, I never hated him in the first place, but now i like him. He just don't want to kill anyone, because unlike Ozaki and the villagers, he realizes that even if shikis are dead, now they have a life, they are the same as what they were when they were alive, they are creatures a little different from humans, but have the right to live, like dogs, cats etc. People kill in order to feed themselves and live, but now, you see, shikis attacked humans, so they must die. Like always, humans think they are superior to any other being on Earth. Well, this episode shows that we aren't and sometimes we act more disgusting than any other creature.

The thing is that vampires and people can coexist only if the latters hunt the formers.
You let shikis be - they multiply. Just like rats. Or locusts. More shikis - more blood required - even more shikis as the result. If no one hunts them - human race would just extinct in no time.
If Sunako & Co would have wanted just to live happily, they should have been keeping the shiki population on the very low levels. Say, just only Kirishikis themselves. No laying hands on the villagers. They attack people from the city - so they have enough food to survive. that way no one would give a damn about Kanemasa and they could live there as long as they please.
Yet Sunako decided to turn the whole village into shikis. They got what they deserved.
Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some.
 
Dec 23, 2010 4:40 PM
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Gruesome episode. Hope Natsuno slaughters Sunako next and then suicides to end it all. Shiki's development has really been one of the best I've seen in the last few years of anime production.

In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.
 
Dec 23, 2010 4:57 PM

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A truly philosophical episode! Isn't it hypocritical as a human. The Shiki don't get any pleasure out of killing humans, they merely do it to keep them from starvation. The humans kill the Shiki because of that, but it's ''ok'', because the Shiki kill humans, therefore makeing it all ''sane'', and, ''just''. A true work of art, this episode! The director and staff probably wanted to portray us in the most sensible case, where we are lead by blindness and bitterness, to our utter perspective of demise. More relative to the episode, it was grusome to watch all these ordinary people killing the Shiki like they were nothing. As if it was all apart of their daily lives, with smiles on their faces on top of that. A lot of questions remain, but are given the fore front of which is mostly obvious. Such as, who's still alive? What's going to happen? Where's such and such? Hopefully most of these questions will be answered in the end. However, I think the real question is this; From a logical standpoin, who is the more evil species? Humans or Shiki? Looking forward to the last!
 
Dec 23, 2010 5:19 PM

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Holy sheeeet this episode...(what a splendid Xmas gift)

i would like to write somethig smarter but i need to calm down first
 
Dec 23, 2010 5:49 PM

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Yeah I think Sunako was kinda eh this episode. I don't really like where things are going, killing off all the developed characters left and right. And the scene with the ladies having tea in the midst of a field of vampire corpses was kinda weird. Though the most gruesome scene has got to be when the shrine got raided! I guess it was wrong of me to watch the show for the dramatic vampire vs. human conflicts. Now it's just some sort blitzkrieg against shiki. Should've seen it coming, huh. xD
 
Dec 23, 2010 6:10 PM

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This was just sick. Sick and wrong.

They are all fucked up.

and im sorry the first scene in the episode sold me. The villagers are just disgusting. They were friggin smiling and drinking tea and eating rice balls around dead bodies.

i guess this is where fact and fiction comes in.I mean even tho the whole 'shiki' idea is fiction if this really happened in real life i know that at least ppl wouldnt be smiling and eating food with blood all over their hands.

Yeah to Masao's death. Boo, Seishin is still alive. Boo Sunako seemes like shes gonna stay. Boo Natsuno was not present. Yeah Seishirou did something i approve of (against his will mind u...or so we think...)

Im still waiting for Toshio to be like okay there, stop guys.
 
Dec 23, 2010 6:38 PM

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It's kind of weird that they're eating food right in front of the dead shiki. Very gory episode.
I wonder what's gonna happen in the next and final episode...
 
Dec 23, 2010 6:38 PM
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I was terrified out of my mind when watching.
That good-for-nothing poor Seishin! That's the price for being a damned dreamer and hopeless romantic... I wonder what exactly Ozaki thinks of him and his decisions.
Tohru and Ritsuko seem to die willingly ( I almost believe that...)
No Tohru-Natsuno or Ozaki-Seishin reunion, that's dissappointing as hell. They might at least let them say goodbye.
 
Dec 23, 2010 6:58 PM

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seizonsha said:
Bura said:
Iilia said:
Oh, and I'm so disappointed at how the Head Monk turned into a Shiki... I seriously thought he might have something up his sleeve like Natsuno and Toshio. But no, he pretty much came across as a coward. Like father like son? What a let-down.

What did you want to have him do? He's paralyzed and can't move an inch. Him becoming undead didn't fix that problem at all (as explained by Tatsumi in the manga).

He's not really a coward...it comes across better in the other sources (but I assume his story might be added into episode 20.5 or 21.5 on the BR/DVD Release)...he's just helpless and tired of living. I was actually glad that he could finally die...it was really terrible to see that old man suffer so much and one can really understand Seishin's fear of the future when looking at his father's fate...

It probably does come across better in the source; it almost always does. It's just that in the earlier episodes when people were ignorant of the Shiki, the Head Monk, Natsuno, and Toshio were all portrayed (to me, at least) in a way that led me to believe they all had something planned. When the Head Monk started asking questions about the Kirishikis moving in I thought, "Hey! This guy might be like Toshio and Natsuno and know something is up!" but I guess he didn't. I suppose was just kind of disappointed after realizing he wasn't a key player in all of this. As for my calling him a coward, to me it seemed like he more or less invited them over to kill him. I didn't mean to step on the toes of fans of these characters; it's just my opinion on it.

@Bura - I didn't know he was actually paralyzed. I thought he was just ill with something that was taking a long time to heal.
 
Dec 23, 2010 7:02 PM

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bakuramariks said:
I came to like Seishin with this episode, I never hated him in the first place, but now i like him. He just don't want to kill anyone, because unlike Ozaki and the villagers, he realizes that even if shikis are dead, now they have a life, they are the same as what they were when they were alive, they are creatures a little different from humans, but have the right to live, like dogs, cats etc. People kill in order to feed themselves and live, but now, you see, shikis attacked humans, so they must die. Like always, humans think they are superior to any other being on Earth. Well, this episode shows that we aren't and sometimes we act more disgusting than any other creature.


QFT , i totally agree
Currently Watching: Durarara!!
 
Dec 23, 2010 7:03 PM

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adiava said:
Oh God, villagers are even worse than shiki now. They're killing everybody whether it's shiki or humans. They're like obsessed.
Although i knew it's going to happen, it's still sad that Touru died... He didn't deserved that.
The next episode is the last one :'( Can't wait to see who survives (if anyone will)

A few are worst than the Shiki. There are some pretty rotten Shiki too. I think this show shows how terrible all humans can be, whether they have been turned into vampires or are still human.
 
Dec 23, 2010 7:11 PM

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god i was shocked seeing toru stacked ;__; i really hoped he would meet natsuno once again before that would happen...

i also started to hate muroi and sunako... this idontwanttokillanyone is just...pfff... and the people at the shrine still got killed because of him, and sunako... she lived a way to long.

and i felt bad for masao ._.
 
Dec 23, 2010 7:41 PM
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Is it wrong that I'm still hoping the Shiki will somehow defeat the village? p: I'm pretty much tired of all the villagers, except for Kaori and Yasuyo. I wish the series was longer, I feel like the ending will be rushed, unless the two extra episodes expand the story, which I doubt. Ugh, I don't want Shiki to end. D;
 
Dec 23, 2010 8:30 PM
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ZgMfx2oAFrEeDoM said:
A truly philosophical episode! Isn't it hypocritical as a human. The Shiki don't get any pleasure out of killing humans, they merely do it to keep them from starvation. The humans kill the Shiki because of that, but it's ''ok'', because the Shiki kill humans, therefore makeing it all ''sane'', and, ''just''. A true work of art, this episode! The director and staff probably wanted to portray us in the most sensible case, where we are lead by blindness and bitterness, to our utter perspective of demise. More relative to the episode, it was grusome to watch all these ordinary people killing the Shiki like they were nothing. As if it was all apart of their daily lives, with smiles on their faces on top of that. A lot of questions remain, but are given the fore front of which is mostly obvious. Such as, who's still alive? What's going to happen? Where's such and such? Hopefully most of these questions will be answered in the end. However, I think the real question is this; From a logical standpoin, who is the more evil species? Humans or Shiki? Looking forward to the last!


I'd say the more philosophical is what people will do in situations. I disagree on your "shiki dont kill because they enjoy it point" frankly by episode seventeen most if not all were getting used to it.
For me the question is what would you do if you had to kill others to live?
After what are shiki but dead humans come back to life? Do you even call that a spicies, or a variant of human? (especially since these new spices members think mostly on those they knew as human)
 
Dec 23, 2010 8:35 PM
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Iriinteinn said:
Is it wrong that I'm still hoping the Shiki will somehow defeat the village? p: I'm pretty much tired of all the villagers, except for Kaori and Yasuyo. I wish the series was longer, I feel like the ending will be rushed, unless the two extra episodes expand the story, which I doubt. Ugh, I don't want Shiki to end. D;


its your opinion but I think you'll agree that at this point it seems very unlikely
The villlagers have gotten used to killing the shiki (so killing Ozaki is worthless at this point, some humans have gone farther than him)
all the leaders are dead except two and one of them is literally trying to escape the village in a briefcase
and how many shiki beside Sunako, Tatsumi and Seishin are alive by this point? (all the main shiki gatherng places have been destroyed)

If you want to hope for shiki good fortune i would place it on something more plausible (like sunako surviving)
I sincerely doubt Tatsumi will live though whether for sunako or not, he did far too much fucked up stuff to get out karma free
plus he's the one i think Toshio and Natsuno hate the most.
Modified by shadowii, Dec 23, 2010 8:43 PM
 
Dec 23, 2010 8:37 PM
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Question for all those who argue whether Shiki or humans are better?

1.What does Natsuno's stance mean to you?
2.What does it mean to you that 90% of the shiki side were villagers prior to dieing?
 
Dec 23, 2010 8:40 PM

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Wow. Why does everyone hate Sunako? She wasn't selfish in her actions in anyway. Natsuno is the one who needs to be impaled ten times over.
 
Dec 23, 2010 9:12 PM

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Totally sick! I was disgusted at how the humans were drinking tea with blood everywhere as if nothing happened and how they keep killing innocent people just for fun... Totally brutal and gore... I almost puked.

This is insanely wrong. I hope the shiki (Sunako) survives.

But we see how humans can be terrible and how shikis can be good.
 
Dec 23, 2010 9:12 PM
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sigh really want Dr.Ozaki to survive and survive well
but every bone in my body says thats not going to happen
(especially if he goes into the woods after Seishin next episode)

Oh and go Chizuko, what they've had her do is different from the manga (or at the very least it hasnt happened yet) but I liked it.
though in the manga i dont believe it will turn out that Masao was stupid enough to go back home considering what happened to Hiromi.

Also if you noticed they went back a bit in this episode (what happened to mattsu after Yoshi bit him was shown in the previous episode)
makes you wonder what else happened that night
Modified by shadowii, Dec 23, 2010 9:23 PM
 
Dec 23, 2010 9:12 PM

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Aww... poor monk...
 
Dec 23, 2010 9:14 PM
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SpiritOfTheWinds said:
Totally sick! I was disgusted at how the humans were drinking tea with blood everywhere as if nothing happened and how they keep killing innocent people just for fun... Totally brutal and gore... I almost puked.

This is insanely wrong. I hope the shiki (Sunako) survives.

But we see how humans can be terrible and how shikis can be good.


what do you mean killing innocent people just for fun?
they killed the shiki because thats what they were going to do in the first place
they killed innocent living people because in fear and paranoia they saw them as collaborators with the shiki

what part did you see killing for fun?
 
Dec 23, 2010 9:47 PM

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Inugirlz said:

and im sorry the first scene in the episode sold me. The villagers are just disgusting. They were friggin smiling and drinking tea and eating rice balls around dead bodies.

i guess this is where fact and fiction comes in.I mean even tho the whole 'shiki' idea is fiction if this really happened in real life i know that at least ppl wouldnt be smiling and eating food with blood all over their hands.


Uh, actually, people smiling and eating with the dead and dying all around is not fiction, at all. Its happened plenty of times in history.
I guess one pretty big example is Vlad the Impaler.
He held banquets inside a ring of dead and dying humans stuck onto pikes, and often had someone tortued while he ate for entertainment.
Humans can be quite fucked up.
 
Dec 23, 2010 9:51 PM

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Maidloid said:
Wow. Why does everyone hate Sunako? She wasn't selfish in her actions in anyway. Natsuno is the one who needs to be impaled ten times over.


Killing others to lengthen your own life isn't selfish? Feeling the fear of death to the point that she is, even though she has killed so many before her, doesn't make her a selfish person? (As in, "It's okay as long as it does not happen to me!")

Why Natsuno? Man, he seems to be one of the only ones in this series who can keep his act together and think clearly in just about any situation. He's one of the few that deserves to live.
 
Dec 23, 2010 9:57 PM
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Oh My God! This episode was just.....WOW!

First off, the humans in the beginning were acting so casual killing the Shiki....it was totally shocking!!!

Tatsumi being the decoy....what a man

I was sad that Tohru and the nurse died.

I wonder what happened to the little brother

I wonder why the Kirishiki guy killed the female Jinrou. I guess Natsuno convinced him.

And what the fuck.....those humans killed all the temple people....that is so fucked up

And last but not least. SUNAKO!!!!!!!!!I WANT YOU TO LIVE!!!!!!!!!!! DONT LET HER DIE!!!!!!!!

I am going to be so sad if she dies
 
Dec 23, 2010 10:13 PM

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Brutal episode
As great as the past few episodes have been, they better show kaori and akira again! They have barely appeared in the past few episodes D:
 
Dec 23, 2010 10:38 PM

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Superluccix said:
I wonder why the Kirishiki guy killed the female Jinrou. I guess Natsuno convinced him.

Not convinced. Controlled. If you go back to that part again you can see the bite marks on his arm. Natsuno bit him and ordered him to wait for a Jinrou to come by, then kill them.
 
Dec 23, 2010 10:43 PM

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wow i was freaked out at the beginning xD
 
Dec 23, 2010 11:34 PM

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The episode just proves that you don't have to be a blood sucking creature to be a monster :D
 
Dec 23, 2010 11:46 PM
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ariapokoteng said:

Again, Seishin's relatives' case is dfferent. Like I said, Seishin did this to them.


His plan was not perfect, but it's not something he could see coming. Maybe he thought the villagers would be as lenient/logical as Toshio. One can expect them to kill hypnotized people carrying weapons, but probably not this...

That reminds me, there's still an assassin on Toshio's tail...
 
Dec 23, 2010 11:49 PM

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Now we see how dark is the other side of human nature.

Masao's sister <3

Having a teabreak and eating riceballs with corpses around is just disgusting but I find it funny.. lol

I lol'ed when she invited Masao inside with her weapon. xD

Also, Tohru and Ritsuko is just tragical to watch :(

I was like O_o when the middle-aged nurse running with her undergarments. X [

About the end w/ the Junior Monk, I don't know how to react with that. :(

Edit: I wonder how's Natsuno, Megumi and the siblings are doing.
Modified by StormViruz, Dec 24, 2010 1:09 AM
 
Dec 24, 2010 12:14 AM

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Superluccix said:
I wonder why the Kirishiki guy killed the female Jinrou. I guess Natsuno convinced him.
StormViruz said:
Why did Seishirou killed the girl jinrou? I don't see any bite marks at all rather I see bruises. Anyway, he was bitten probably somewhere in his body.
And there you go.
 
Dec 24, 2010 1:04 AM

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Iilia said:
StormViruz said:
Why did Seishirou killed the girl jinrou? I don't see any bite marks at all rather I see bruises. Anyway, he was bitten probably somewhere in his body.
And there you go.


Yay. I didn't notice that. Anyway, my suspicion was still right.. :D

Thnx BTW..
Modified by StormViruz, Dec 24, 2010 1:09 AM
 
Dec 24, 2010 1:54 AM

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I hope that Megumi and Sunako live.

I really want to know what happened to Akira and Kaoru though!
 
Dec 24, 2010 2:37 AM

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shadowii said:
1.What does Natsuno's stance mean to you?

It rather puzzles me.
So your best friend gets killed, yet comes back virtually unchanged.
You get turned into a awesome immortal with basically no rules or limitations.
What do you do?
'I'M GONNA KILL EVERYONE! (and hope to die myself as well)'

God, I'm really starting to hate misantropic people.

Or are you saying Natsuno fights against Shiki for he is a noble hero who has developed a deep love for the village (witch he openly claims to dislike) and all of it's inhabitants?
Pff.
To me he is just an angsty wuss who, out of some adolescent stubbornness, refuses to adapt.

shadowii said:
2.What does it mean to you that 90% of the shiki side were villagers prior to dieing?

It means that the 'living' villagers are not just killing some foreign horde, trying to drive them out of their homes but butchering their own friends and families.
Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you.
 
Dec 24, 2010 3:07 AM

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wow this show turns into a slaughter feast :P
 
Dec 24, 2010 4:14 AM
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This episode is not comic but novel.
I hope Yoshie stay alive !

Seishin has to be successor from birth ,''despair'' means , there is no choise for him.
He is monk ,but he bear a grudge for his familly , people , and this village
 
Dec 24, 2010 4:34 AM

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The blood looks kinda purple to me :S, but wow THIS IS MADNESS!
 
Dec 24, 2010 5:32 AM

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i hate it how the humans has turned into barbarians. killing innocent people. they have turned into the creatures they fear most. in my opinion, they worse than the shikis... most of them has lost their conscience. this series is so fucked up!
 
Dec 24, 2010 6:10 AM

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SwordWielder said:
Can someone please tell me...
Why is Muroi helping the shikis and sunako?
I still don't get it...


He explained his real wish referring his story this week.
first, he felt sympathy for shikis who have become a monster without their intent, because, to him, shikis seemed to be completely equal to living people. People kill animals to live, shikis kill humans to live, because it's necessary for them. So, he couldn't accept to kill shikis.
And, he's born in a temple as head monk's son, he needed to be a good, kind, and nice man as villagers expect him to be. He was quite bored and tired of his life. He wanted to jettison his burden and become free. But there was no place for him to escape to. So he slashed his wrist and attempted to die. The young brother of the story is probably his self-projection. But he didn't die and so he become the young monk as people want him to be.
That’s why he said "If what Sunako said is true, perhaps I have some intent to kill against the village” on the end of epsode 19.

He is no better than dead mentally. So he's gone to the dead side. Because, he could felt more sympathy for shiki than for living people.
I thought of those kind of things about him. Well, it's just my conjecture though.
Modified by Hana-kei, Dec 24, 2010 6:19 AM
 
Dec 24, 2010 6:43 AM
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ariapokoteng said:

The death of Seishin's relatives, though, is entirely Seishin's fault.


ariapokoteng said:

Again, Seishin's relatives' case is dfferent. Like I said, Seishin did this to them.


So, is it wise to put the ENTIRE blame of Seishin's family massacre on Seishin and not on the villagers that did it? Did the villagers have some kind of moral immunity in your mind?

So, let's say your parents murdered one of my relatives. Then, do I have the right to say that I can kill you because of what your parent did? And there is absolutely no blame on me, really? You deserved it? I don't think putting 100% the blame on Seishin is logical.
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
 
Dec 24, 2010 6:46 AM

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Such is the law of the nature ... you kill to survive . I enjoyed the moment when they were drinking tea near the dead ... If I can call them dead , to begin with . Sunako is just a cry baby ! WTF !? I kinda expected smth more from her ... is her mind still of a 6 yr old girl !? lol . Seishin is a retarded man ... I can't understand why the hell is he doing this !? He just got rid of his family by himself ... and helps the person wich started all this shite ...
 
Dec 24, 2010 7:57 AM
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Xayoz said:
shadowii said:
1.What does Natsuno's stance mean to you?

It rather puzzles me.
So your best friend gets killed, yet comes back virtually unchanged.
You get turned into a awesome immortal with basically no rules or limitations.
What do you do?
'I'M GONNA KILL EVERYONE! (and hope to die myself as well)'

God, I'm really starting to hate misantropic people.

Or are you saying Natsuno fights against Shiki for he is a noble hero who has developed a deep love for the village (witch he openly claims to dislike) and all of it's inhabitants?
Pff.
To me he is just an angsty wuss who, out of some adolescent stubbornness, refuses to adapt.

shadowii said:
2.What does it mean to you that 90% of the shiki side were villagers prior to dieing?

It means that the 'living' villagers are not just killing some foreign horde, trying to drive them out of their homes but butchering their own friends and families.


thank you for answering my questions (I just wanted opinions)
as to Natsuno i dont know enough of his thinkng to make an assertation (its much clearer in the manga where Tohru and Natsuno DID meet and Tohru became Natsuno's spy)
however i will say
"awesome immortal with basically no rules or limitations" thats not really the right way to live and in my opinion that got the shiki into this mess in the first place.
Atsushi summed it well in the manga "I have earned the right you kill" sure you guys did, untill your prey got mad
Modified by shadowii, Dec 24, 2010 8:07 AM
 
Dec 24, 2010 8:44 AM

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wakka9ca said:
ariapokoteng said:

The death of Seishin's relatives, though, is entirely Seishin's fault.


ariapokoteng said:

Again, Seishin's relatives' case is dfferent. Like I said, Seishin did this to them.


So, is it wise to put the ENTIRE blame of Seishin's family massacre on Seishin and not on the villagers that did it? Did the villagers have some kind of moral immunity in your mind?

So, let's say your parents murdered one of my relatives. Then, do I have the right to say that I can kill you because of what your parent did? And there is absolutely no blame on me, really? You deserved it? I don't think putting 100% the blame on Seishin is logical.


The moment Seishin entered his house is the moment he dragged all its inhabitants into the bloodbath.
Villagers have become "hunters". You can say that they are "out of their minds". They can't think properly, thay can only react, because otherwise there's a good chance you get a bullet in your head or a pair of fangs in your neck.
Seishin's family didn't know he's home, and because of that it looked like they're covering for him. And for villagers that ment they were shikis allies, an enemy. And any sign of hostility would be enough for the "hunters" to kill them.
I'm not saying that whichever side is "right" or "wrong". Neither of them is.
But the one who brang hunters to Seishin's house is Seishin himself. You could expect that his relatives might get hurt as the result.
Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some.
 
Dec 24, 2010 8:45 AM
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Omg this episode is insane. The villagers should die and not the shikis! They are far much worse than shiki
 
Dec 24, 2010 8:54 AM
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Oh know I remember what the scene before the opening reminded me of
A world war one movie i saw where the soldiers were eating lunch during some time in a trench and the one of them handed a core to a dead guys hand as a joke (they stuffed the trenches with dead soldiers to help maintain them)
 
Dec 24, 2010 9:37 AM
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Unless I missed it, I don't understand Moroi's take on shiki--meaning why he is going so far for Sunaco and why he was even at the house. Didn't he go on his own?

I said it before and I'm saying it again, where is Natsuno? I thought he'd have a much bigger part in the series.
 
Dec 24, 2010 10:12 AM

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just when i thought this show cant get any better. they throw in the largest amount of wth face palming moments.
Geso
-----:D
 
Dec 24, 2010 10:52 AM

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Ahh the darkness of the human heart. The opening scene of the episode was so disturbing in a good way; the perfect picture of how they adjusted to the oddity.

I am guessing Sensei will die from the ordered guy, Natsuno will kill Megumi, and then ask to be killed himself. I don't think Sunako will live and personally don't care either way.

Took me a while to figure out why he shot the jinrou XD (Genocide goodness 10/10)
 
Dec 24, 2010 12:22 PM

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YuliLake said:
If Sunako dies, i will cry!

Villagers are the worst.


Yeah, because obviously it was the villagers who started the killing, right?

Sunako will most likely survive, while the village will probably be destroyed by all the people who have given into insanity and paranoia.

Either way, the ending is very obvious and predictable at this point.
 
Dec 24, 2010 1:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Just to piss people off and state my opinion I'd like to say go villigers, you some serious ass! Also at the same time i'll say what the hell!? Why did you kill those innocent people at the shrine! But this is a good way to show what war is like, theres death on both those that can and can't fight happening on both sides.

Am I Right or am I Wrong?
 
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