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Poll: Legend of the Galactic Heroes Episode 80 Discussion


#1
Jun 2, 2008 6:33 PM
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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
I was shocked at the numbers from the last battle. Comparing losses, for every ship the Empire took of Yang's, his fleet in turn took about 175 of theirs. That's a pretty crushing defeat.

I thought Reinhard would be more angry at Bittenfeld because of his initial blunder but he remained merciful. He seemed to have become somewhat passive. At least he's shown some more activity in this episode by taking the reins and directing fleet attack movements.

...even a saint needs a soldier to do the dirty work.
 
#2
Nov 8, 2008 12:03 PM

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As in the previous episode, the fact that the imperial fleet is oversized turns to be an inconvenient again even though the admirals are aware of this. Mittermeier tactic became useless because of the lack of fast and good communication between his ships.
On the other side, it is great to see Attemborough having more and more decisive actions!


By the way, I don't understand why every discussion between Mittermeier and Reuenthal tuns into Mittermeier being angry at what Reuethal says. When Reuenthal says he is fortunate that he doesn't have to fight against two of the best tacticians among the only four that are able to defeat him (Yang, Merkatz/ Lohengramm, Mittermeier), Mittermeier replies that he wants to stop this unconfomrtable conversation and that victory is not guaranteed although they have more fine tacticians on their side if including Reuenthal.
I really don't get what is uncomfortable here ? Does it mean that I am still unable to understand what is underlying Reuenthal words after watching 80 episodes ???
 
#3
Oct 11, 2009 2:17 AM

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I think what Mittermeyer meant about that 'uncomfortable' conversation was that they ended up praising themselves and repeating the whole 'victory is totally assured!' thing, which is if anything acknowledging that they're in a position where they are the ones being threatened by the opposition, and they can't have the relaxed banter and non-war related good time that they could before. His comment was confusing to me too, though.

But ffff, Reinhard's line at the end. "Yang Wenli cannot beat me unless he faces me directly!" Realizing and accepting that Yang very well appears to be better than him in tactics and thinking ahead can't be something he'll brush off. The advantages he's used against Yang himself so far were always in position, or size, or occasionally in negotiations(for instance, when Hilda came out on a white horse to bully the Alliance government), and even his love for striking first is something that allows him to take the situation as he likes it. Whereas Yang can again and again make the most and more of what anyone else would call serious disadvantages. Reinhard's courage and charisma is something that enables him to build himself up like this, and is certainly valuable in its own right, but he wants to live fighting, and that Yang is technically a better soldier must be driving him mad.
 
#4
Oct 26, 2009 10:58 PM

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senerikfred said:
I think what Mittermeyer meant about that 'uncomfortable' conversation was that they ended up praising themselves and repeating the whole 'victory is totally assured!' thing, which is if anything acknowledging that they're in a position where they are the ones being threatened by the opposition, and they can't have the relaxed banter and non-war related good time that they could before. His comment was confusing to me too, though.

But ffff, Reinhard's line at the end. "Yang Wenli cannot beat me unless he faces me directly!" Realizing and accepting that Yang very well appears to be better than him in tactics and thinking ahead can't be something he'll brush off. The advantages he's used against Yang himself so far were always in position, or size, or occasionally in negotiations(for instance, when Hilda came out on a white horse to bully the Alliance government), and even his love for striking first is something that allows him to take the situation as he likes it. Whereas Yang can again and again make the most and more of what anyone else would call serious disadvantages. Reinhard's courage and charisma is something that enables him to build himself up like this, and is certainly valuable in its own right, but he wants to live fighting, and that Yang is technically a better soldier must be driving him mad.


Yeah, I want to add that I thought that how Reinhard bit his finger said it all. It was a moment where Reinhard realized pretty much all of the second paragraph of your post. Real good scene, I think.

So far the Empire has been taking loss after loss, but I doubt this will keep up.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

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#5
Jan 22, 2010 8:02 AM

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oooh Reinhards so pissed now that he's realized he's not the best strategist in the galaxy.
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
#6
Jan 23, 2010 1:27 PM

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Seeing Reinhard get so angry as he spoke those words was easily my favorite part of the episode. When he admitted that one fact, that realization hit about the difference in skill between him and Yang so hard he bit himself out of frustration.

I'm eager to see what he'll do now after acknowledging this gap. He'll have to really rethink his game if he wants to beat Yang.
 
#7
Jan 26, 2010 2:26 PM

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one word - epic
 
#8
Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM

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another great episode :)
This time Steinmetz bit the dust :/ The Admirals are dying out one after the other.
I really look forward to the continuation of this battle.


StephenCovey said:
Most of us don't listen with the intent to understand, they listen with the intent to reply.


 
#9
Nov 11, 2010 1:53 PM

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RIP Steinmetz...eh :\

great episode,but i get the feeling that Reinhard is starting to lose it
maybe we're in for a surprise?:D,maybe...:)

5/5
Sayonara,papa!


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Dec 31, 2010 5:37 PM

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I thought Reinhard was going to hang Bittenfield with his hair to make an example out of him...

Check out this awesome facepalm

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Mar 15, 2011 11:52 PM
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Shocking lack of organization of the part of the Empire, probably because all the fleets rushed to battle after Bittenfeld's mess. Even Mittermeyer's formations and Reuenthal's strategy failed.

Too bad for Reinhard's realization, but it's really that kind of thinking that causes him to lose out. Yang doesn't concern himself with romantic ideals and rivalry, so he tends to make pragmatic plans focused more on victory than a warrior's pride.
 
Mar 26, 2011 12:20 AM

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Actually just reacalling, after Reinhard pushes Yang back with "He can't defeat me unless he confronts me head-on", what made him realize he can't defeat him?
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
 
Aug 15, 2011 9:51 AM

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Heeeh! Yang Wenli is on a killing streak. First Fahrenheit, now Steinmetz. These are two big ones down. Better yet, he even outwitted Mittermeyer and Reuenthal. During the fight both tried to out-maneuver him but both failed.

I'm wondering though if there's a pattern on those who are killed in action? The "Old Guard" remains untouched: Wahlen, Bittenfeld, Kessler, Lutz, Mucklinger, Mueller, Reuenthal and Mittermeyer. If I remember correctly these were the first high-ranked officers that were under his command, right? That is excluding Kircheis and Oberstein who have been introduced before these officers would join him. Lennenkanpt, Kempf, Steinmetz and Fahrenheit joined in later.

So with the exception of Kircheis (whose death had a rather special importance), it's the new blood that's getting killed off while the old blood lives on, in Lohengramm's side...

Well, just an observation.
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Aug 30, 2011 9:50 PM
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It was cool to see Reinhard get back into battle mode. Once he got into the front lines he nullified Yang's attacks. It seems he's much more successful that way, but obviously that's not befitting of the Kaiser.
 
Jan 23, 2012 7:50 PM

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I wouldn't say the Empire was disorganized so much as they were having their movements played like a well oiled lute.
 
Apr 2, 2012 1:36 PM

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May 16, 2012 1:33 PM

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Why would Reinhard, Reuenthal, and Mittermeyer all be on the same ship during combat for any length of time? If they all died, the most powerful person in the galaxy would be...someone who you wouldn't want to be the most powerful person in the galaxy.

It was interesting to note that Bayerlein had the same mentality that Bittenfeld had last episode: he acknowledged the trap that was set for him and correctly analyzed the tactical situation he was facing, but took the bait regardless. The victory of the Empire is a "foregone conclusion," and this mindset is poisoning the minds of Reinhard's staff.

tainteddonut said:
I was shocked at the numbers from the last battle. Comparing losses, for every ship the Empire took of Yang's, his fleet in turn took about 175 of theirs. That's a pretty crushing defeat.


No, that's a misunderstanding -- Frederica said the Alliance lost 86 planes, as in Spartanians. We never heard how many ships they actually lost, but it was probably in the thousands. I'll add this to the ever-growing list of things I'm going to research after finishing episode 110.
 
Jun 7, 2012 11:10 AM

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I just went back and watched the last scene, and realized that Reinhard's finger-biting revelation is one of my favorite moments in the series.

Reinhard said:
As was the case with the Battle of Vermilion, he cannot defeat me unless he confronts me directly.


...wow.
 
Aug 5, 2013 10:23 PM

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Damn Steinmetz is gone too.....
 
Aug 5, 2013 10:29 PM

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That finger biting scene surprised me. Like Reinhard was in the middle of gloating.....and he suddenly bites his finger, I thought he was trying to bleed himself to make a blood oath or something LOL
 
Sep 25, 2013 1:00 PM

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What the fuck was with him biting his finger? Mid speech it looks like he is going to just bite the front of his finger off . . . Did he break an oath? Was he trying to pull himself back to reality after a fit of insanity (maybe was going insane from the excitement of war, and realized it would be fatal to have this type of attribute after this battle) . . . Or is he just going insane and was suddenly hungry for the tip of a finger.
 
Feb 6, 2014 7:38 PM

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senerikfred said:
I think what Mittermeyer meant about that 'uncomfortable' conversation was that they ended up praising themselves and repeating the whole 'victory is totally assured!' thing, which is if anything acknowledging that they're in a position where they are the ones being threatened by the opposition, and they can't have the relaxed banter and non-war related good time that they could before. His comment was confusing to me too, though.

But ffff, Reinhard's line at the end. "Yang Wenli cannot beat me unless he faces me directly!" Realizing and accepting that Yang very well appears to be better than him in tactics and thinking ahead can't be something he'll brush off. The advantages he's used against Yang himself so far were always in position, or size, or occasionally in negotiations(for instance, when Hilda came out on a white horse to bully the Alliance government), and even his love for striking first is something that allows him to take the situation as he likes it. Whereas Yang can again and again make the most and more of what anyone else would call serious disadvantages. Reinhard's courage and charisma is something that enables him to build himself up like this, and is certainly valuable in its own right, but he wants to live fighting, and that Yang is technically a better soldier must be driving him mad.
You worded it out so well! It's a nice touch with him biting his fingertip, too. I also love how Hilda immediately picked up on his revelation.


 
Nov 14, 2014 6:58 PM

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Guess they'll just go on a killing spree for every high admiral huh.
 
Dec 13, 2014 1:26 PM

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Wow, yang is too strong...
 
Jan 6, 2015 1:40 AM

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Okay, the battle is just becoming grating now. The Empire suffers from incompetence in just about every battle post-Alliance destruction. Coupled with the fact that the Yang fleets' movements are practically magical, it is no surprise that they suffered so many losses.
Sure Reinhard has left the planning to his subordinates, but very little planning ahead actually seems to take place. I have noticed a pattern of just planning battle formations and pretty much nothing else while the Yang fleet has already planned multiple steps ahead.

All in all, it always appears that the Empire fleet is reactionary while Yang's fleet is insanely proactive. Also, the Empire always seems to forget the environment for some reason. Once or twice sure, but now it's getting kind of ridiculous. If an enemy can launch an ambush in such a narrow corridor, then the empire's vigilance is worse than being in a sorry state, especially since it's always asteroids used for hiding.

Also waiting to see why the Empire hasn't tried to contact Mecklinger. Another last minute save would be too much.
Modified by RedRoseFring, Jan 6, 2015 1:44 AM
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Mar 7, 2015 5:35 PM

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Its really stupid that Yang is literally never disadvantaged by anything, whether its weather, fleet organization, rebellion from within , you name it, he remains unaffected by it. On the other hand, the Empire's plans are constantly being obstructed by such things. The one thing I liked about this episode was the part at the end where Reindhart finally used his brain and made his own strategy. I thought we had lost the old Reindhart for good and that the new retarded Reindhart would never leave but I stand corrected.
 
Apr 7, 2015 1:54 PM

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Jesus fucking Christ. As said above, I can accept environmental conditions to some degree (because I am sick of battling the idiotic reasoning of the writer) but now the Empire is bad at fleet organization? Why exactly is that? They are more experienced, they have number advantage, the have the most powerful and respected leader of the history, they have genius generals, and they are ruled by an autocratic regime and they are not tired. The most ideal conditions on universe for a fleet to act best way possible. But they still constantly fail at their simplest jobs. How convenient.

And this Yang hack's fleet or number of soldiers never drop in numbers. I thought Reinhard had, what, 10 times the fleet of Yang? Even "deterioration war" (or whatever it is called) would end the war in Reinhard's favor. But he can't even beat an enemy like that. Again, how convenient.

About the end... I have a feeling that Reinhard realized that he made a mistake. Because Yang had planned to face him directly and his plan involved further moves. So when he was facing him he fell into his trap (hello, writer) and now he will lose the war.

I hope I'm wrong, but I thnik this is the exact thing that will happen in next episode and will be the reason why this year is called as something. I haven't watched previews. Just my guess. If I'm right, screw you Yoshiki Tanaka already.
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Apr 7, 2015 5:55 PM

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Prequel said:
And this Yang hack's fleet or number of soldiers never drop in numbers. I thought Reinhard had, what, 10 times the fleet of Yang? Even "deterioration war" (or whatever it is called) would end the war in Reinhard's favor. But he can't even beat an enemy like that. Again, how convenient.


Quick note of clarification: By the time of the Battle of the Corridor, Yang has managed to amass a fleet of roughly 20,000 from his initial 1,000+ after receiving reinforcements from whatever surviving Alliance warships. So Reinhard had a fleet around 5 times the size of Yang (which is still a huge difference anyway).
 
Jun 2, 2015 11:00 AM

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Steinmetz :( Man this is starting to get serious :o I'm gonna strt the next episode directly :)
What is the most cowardly and shameful thing in human conduct? It's when people with power and people who flatter them hide in safe places and extol war, force patriotism and self-sacrifice on others, then send them to the battlefield to die. For the sake of peace in the universe, before we continue this fruitless war with the Empire, mustn't we first start by exterminating such evil parasites? - Yang Wenli
 
Jun 3, 2015 8:05 AM

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Well... another death from Reinhard's side lmao, I loved his facepalm and laugh near the end :P
 
Jun 18, 2015 6:16 PM

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Reinhard is also younger than Yang Wenli by a decade. He'd surpass Yang Wenli at that age.
 
Jun 19, 2015 3:41 PM

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Didn't expect they were going to pull back at that point but damn impressive battle! Really looking forward to see what will happen next!
 
Jul 19, 2015 4:54 AM

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Dat reinhard laugh doe! Seems another admiral is now gone :(
 
Oct 15, 2015 3:40 PM

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The empire is taking way too many casualties compared to Yang's forces
 
Mar 17, 2016 10:19 PM

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I am not saying Yang is a Marty Stu but he is close to one. Or that he have an ability that make enemies commanders retarded .
Either way good skill to have.
 
Jun 22, 2016 11:23 AM

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Steinmetz didn't deserved to die like that :/
 
Oct 27, 2016 5:27 PM

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It kind of annoys me that they only put in 3d tactics when it becomes convenient
That maneuver Yang pulled near the end shouldn't have been so surprising
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Jan 15, 2017 5:51 PM

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What about Oberstein lol, he's been rocking in the Imperial for quite some time and you should be watching out for him the most Reuental XD.



Reuental is probably the most complicated man in this show, constantly having eccentric thought in his mind. I assume he seeks an everlasting achievement for his life, and if he were to fall it should be the most dramatic downfall ever, which is by his Kaiser Reinhard.

The battle was intense, both side came up with good tactic, and i really like how Mittermeyer charge to the front and lead his man, that's how real leader roll.



Another admiral fell for the Imperial side, but seriously, Yang is really a hacker to be able to make the most powerful force in the universe crumble and messed up everytime they engage. They should let the table turn for the other side to make things more balance imo. Overall still a great episode.
 
Mar 23, 2017 2:37 PM

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With 8x the size of Yang's fleet, how are they not completely rolling over them yet?
 
Nov 25, 2017 7:12 AM

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Another tragic death for Reinhard band, Vonkel!!!


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May 16, 2018 4:33 PM
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RIP Steinmetz! Boom another high admiral down.

Now we are just done to the high admirals I like this is going to be so tough to watch.

For those complaining about why Yang is winning and saying silly stuff about it being poor writing, it's simply that Yang is better. Even Reinhard knows this. Reinhard is so cocky and convinced we will win with the numbers advantage that he's not planning anything very well. Yes Reuental, Mittenmeyer and Reinhard are of the five best strategists of their time, but their is a gulf in class between Yang and them and Meerkatz. They might be able to play an incredible chess move but Yang has already planned out three moves in advance.

It all come down to the initial strike. Yang and Dusty planned out the trap to lure Bittenfeld and Fahrenheit into action and have had the upper hand ever since. The battle began far too quickly for Reinhard that now he is hastily playing catch-up whereas Yang has already painstakingly agonised over every potential move.

Reinhard let out an evil laugh at the end. Anybody who still thinks he's the good guy is delusional to me.

Power rankings:
1) The Empire: Lost two high admirals now but they still have Reuenthal (loyal for now), Mittermeyer, Bittenfeld (even with a depleted fleet), Eisenach, Wahlen on his way, Mecklinger on the other side still oblivious to what is going on, Mueller at the rear and Kesler and Lutz on emergency back-up at Odin and Phezzan. He also has talented guys like Bayerlin too.
2) Yang. Another great defeat and is closing the game. I really wish they would use Thor's Hammer for an easy win. Hopefully someone is back on the station so they can fire on Mecklinger if he tries a pincer movement.
3) Rubinski
4) Earth Cult
5) El Fails
6) The AWOL Goldenbalms. Maybe they will wait to everyone else is dead and then take the throne?

MVP: Got to go with Marino here. His skill is what led to Steinmetz's death.
Modified by JohnWoo, May 16, 2018 6:36 PM
 
Nov 1, 2018 2:56 AM
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Everything is going too well for Yang. Whatever happens next I'm sure his side will get the short end of the stick.
 
Nov 9, 2018 9:28 PM

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Reinhard is nearly throwing it all away...
 
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