Sundome Chapter 76 Discussion

pelisita1 said:
It was waaaay too sexual, there wasn't a need to have that kind of scenes in every chapter...

pelisita1 said:
Aiba is scarred for live. But Kurumi made him strong. She wants him to go on. That's maybe why she got himself a... lover? wife? whatever, I re-read the time-skip looking for his ring and couldn't find it. The author did that in purpose, one of Aiba's hands is never shown after the time-skip.

She wants him to go on, and he knows that. Aiba is impotent now, because he only loves Kurumi.
Do you remember what got his little friend up last time he was impotent? Talkin' about pee. What does he ask Ms.Wife (? to do for him? Golden shower. He doesn't really want to have sex with anyone but Sahana, but Aiba knows he has to go on and do it, because that's whar Kurumi wants, for him to be happy.

In the second-to-last panel, I think, Kurumi's spirit touched him or something like that (that's why he opens his eyes and looks in a certain direction), maybe telling him that it's okay that he fucks that woman, because she still exist, and she still loves him.
After all, Kurumi made Aiba grow so strong because she wanted Aiba to be able to live without her.

10/10 for the story, art, and character development. But I've gotta get the total score down to a 7/10, 'cause some of the sexual scenes were plainly disruptive and disgusting.

Sugeegus said:
When aiba told sahana's personal physician "...when my head starts to hang...if i tighten it here like this...It feels like this part here is being pulled" does that means he tried to hang himself But sahana's "spirit" doesn't let him do it?

Cancel51 said:
This is my interpretation of the ending of Sundome and what I view as evidence to back my interpretation.
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I stand on the side of those who have said that they didn't have sex. I believe she was giving him a hand job or perhaps not touching him at all. My reasoning for this was the fact that we never see Kurumi's left hand, only her right. Others have said that they are clearly having sex because both of Hideo's hands are being used to support himself so there is no way he could have been masturbating. Hideo has been known to come at the slightest of stimulation, so even if Kurumi wasn't doing anything to him, he still could have come in that situation.

Some have said that Hideo started having sex with her and then she died, and he kept on going until climax. Others have said that he started having sex with her once she had already been dead. I don't think either of those theories fit the story, or who Hideo was as a person. That just isn't something he would do. Besides, what kind of person has sex with someone who just died and then thinks, "Oh, I'm about to come! Better pull out!" It just doesn't make sense.

Hideo also successfully graduates as a member of the Roman club and is seen working as a resident at the hospital. He wouldn't have been able to do so if he didn't finish high school as a virgin. He never would have been able to work at that hospital if he had quit (lost his virginity) the Roman club because the Director of the hospital, and at least one of the doctors, are Alumni of the club. They wouldn't have let him work at their hospital if he had broken the rule of their club.
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I believe that Kurumi was alive at least until page 23. She is being held close by Hideo as they watch the nami no hana together. The sleeping bag has been zipped up a bit and they both seem to be at peace with slight smiles on their faces. If Kurumi had died at any point before page 23, we would expect to at least see tears on Hideo's face, if not anguish and suffering. Kurumi meant the world to Hideo. I refuse to believe that he would simply lie there calmly if she had just dead. Some may say that he must have been in shock at that point, but his expression on page 23 isn't one of shock.

Kurumi then says, "When I wake up, let's have sex". Those are her final words; we know that she doesn't wake up. She chooses those to be her final words in order to let Hideo know that she loved him and would have given herself completely to him had her situation been different. Her illness prevented her from being able/wanting to have sex, be it physically or emotionally, and she made that clear in the beginning of the story. True to her words, they never have sex.
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The bit on page 26 about Hideo "tightening" under his neck is clearly a reference to the "collar" that Kurumi put on Hideo. I don't know anything about a shutter reference, but I'm pretty sure he means a collar and he is tugging on a leash. The chapters of Sundome are even called Collars and Hideo himself talks about how he feels his "leash" was let go in chapter 72.
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On the last page, there are three consecutive panels of Hideo lying down on the bed.
In the first, we seem him thinking with his eyes closed as he smiles.
In the second panel, we see him open his eyes and glance over to his left hand [which is the hand he used to hold hands with Kurumi as she died]. His smile grows a bit larger.
In the final panel, we see him close his eyes again, put his head down, and rest into his hand and arm. He thinks: "You still exist".

Kurumi is still very much alive inside Hideo, and he realizes this. She completely shaped him as a person and made him grow into the man we see in this epilogue. He went from someone who was invisible, to someone who took action. He started training his body, got his first job, was able to stand up to his classmates, broke someone out of a hospital, and is even on the road to becoming a doctor. All because of Kurumi's influence. He is reminded of this and is able to be honest with himself.

"On second thought... about that golden shower..."

thaumx said:
incredibly depressing, but also touching. I don't care for bittersweet endings, but it's better than a tragic end.

I really wish that the mangaka had revealed her illness, but perhaps he didn't want to risk contradicting himself. (he says she has disease X, but she didn't have symptom Y, and X causes Y)

It definitely was NOT HIV/AIDS. The only real evidence for AIDS is her saying she won't have sex with him, and possibly the fact her parents are dead and had passed it on to her. However, the symptoms weren't right for immunodeficiency, they weren't drawn out long enough, and her time of death is pretty pessimistic for the time the story was written. (HIV is nearly considered a "treatable" condition, rather than a terminal one these days.) Also, if she refused sex to avoid infecting him, then she had to be really dumb. They did several things that were more dangerous transmission-wise than sex with a condom. I think she refused because she knew the roman club alum doctor, knew she was going to die, and wanted Hideo to make it through as a virgin.

I'm glad they revealed her relationship with the doctor. Obviously he was her doctor, but it was great that the mangaka showed the doctor finding her as a child. Meaning they had a long term relationship, and a reason for him to become her personal doctor, and care so much about her. (The sudden death of her parents simultaneously also kinda rules out HIV, by the way.) I wonder if the doctor OB who was caring for her is the one who suggested she join the roman club in the first place?

The scene with her and the doctor, midway though, with the hope hurts line... is pretty sad. I'm guessing that's when she found out that it was going to be terminal after all. She got her hopes up because of wanting to be with Hideo, which is sweet, but so sad.

The ending was strange. I re-read the chapter a dozen times. I don't think they had sex. The flashbacks confuse things, as well as the art, so it's hard to say definitively. He said he'll masturbate for her. he was trying to give her some enjoyment, she was very tired. She whispered "let's have sex when I wake up" I'm certain she knew that she wasn't going to wake up, and Hideo likely realised it as well.

his expressions, and the talk about plankton dying in a beautiful way, rather than staying in the sea, indicate he was doing his best to please her at the end. likely he was rubbing against her, she might've started out touching him, but I think she drifted away during the event. Maybe when she saw the sea foam floating above Hideo. (reminiscent of seeing the fireworks in the bathtub.)

I think she passed out, and he finished anyway for her. The way their relationship developed, she turned his pleasure/orgasms into an act for her, not him. It's strange, like a lot of this story, but in that context, it makes sense. His happiness came from pleasing her, and he pleased her by giving her control over his body and orgasms. Right from the beginning, that aspect of their relationship was there, but he grew more and more into it as their relationship progressed. He did a lot of the crazier things to make her happy, rather than for his own direct pleasure. (he was pleased making her happy)

I think him offering to jerk off was to make her feel better, because he could tell she wasn't doing well. I think they knew what was going to happen, her dying, and that it was soon. I think she whispered "lets have sex when I wake up" to help get him aroused so he could do it for her. I don't think he was just being pervy on her deathbed, and was likely very sad, so she encouraged him.

He likely held her afterwards knowing she wouldn't wake up, but maybe a bit happy that she drifted off from a happy place.

I am disappointed though, that the author didn't cover his grief period, or school life, or anything like that at all. it seemed to jarring for him to go from something so traumatic, to about 10 years later. (2 more years of high school, 4 years undergrad college, 3 years med school, and however much time into his residency)

It's nice that she lived on in him. She changed him, and even though she's dead, she lives on in his memories. I think that's what the ending was about. Not that she is literally a spirit following him. He was in the roman club, and learned to hold onto that belief, and hold onto her in his life. The chin being pulled up, is a way to motivate himself, to remember that he's also living on for her. If he feels like life or challenges are tough, remember the strength she gave him to accomplish things, and his reason for continuing. Very touching.

She did leave him with some impotence issues I think, because his sexuality was so strongly tied to her. He was impotent with the wife-type person. (she was wearing a ring, so they are likely married.) He was thinking of Kurumi that day, and it made it difficult for him. His sex is about pleasing her, after all. But then, after mentioning the golden fountain stuff, he thought about her, and thought that she always enjoyed watching him do those things, and thought that it would make her happy. So it wasn't betraying her after all, and so he went after his wife into the shower.

Typing all this out, and thinking through the ending, makes me feel better... sorry for the long post.