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Poll: Legend of the Galactic Heroes Episode 72 Discussion


#1
Jun 1, 2008 7:20 PM
Vermillion

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
With Oberstein currently out of the picture Hilda has taken a much larger role in dispensing advice to Reinhard. I think this may end up causing some strife because he's been really receptive at everything she's said so far. He could have fought Admiral Bucock without a word but she convinced him to allow the option of surrender. He could have rushed to the alliance territory after their win but she convinced him to take his time. The kicker is when she spoke at the celebration party by providing her assessment to the situation. Although she was correct, the admirals may view her interjections as being a troublesome nuisance.

Bucock put up a very brave and well fought battle. His ability to get the Empire's admirals to fall into his traps was first rate. Sure he lost but the fact that he was able to get close enough that Reinhard's battleship had to back away somewhat is a testament to his skill. Given more troops the outcome would've have been the other way around.
Modified by tainteddonut, Jun 1, 2008 7:24 PM

...even a saint needs a soldier to do the dirty work.
 
#2
Jan 13, 2009 10:17 AM

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This episode made me cry. The "If Kircheis were alive" conversation at the end made me worry for some reason.
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#3
Mar 22, 2009 10:11 AM
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Bucock was such a great character. I'm glad that Reinhard showed the respect he deserved after his death.
Also, i think that those flashbacks with Kircheis were really out of place :/
 
#4
Jun 7, 2009 6:35 AM

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Bucock's last words to Reinhard really stroke a chord to me, he described his disagreement with autocracy in so simple, yet meaningful, terms that I was completely surprised. Bucock died fullfilled and firm in his beliefs and principles and it speaks for Reinhard's greatness that he recognised these values in his opponent and paid him the respect he deserved.

I can't help but wonder though, were has Reinhard the brilliant tactician gone? Sure as a strategist he proves his ability time and again, but one can say that's because he has the whole galaxy's resources at his disposal, but tactically he is continuously humbled by inferior fleets, as if his loss against Yang in the battle of Vermillion wasn't enough, he now was nearly killed by Bucock as well. Is he just too powerfull for his own good?
 
#5
Jun 7, 2009 9:57 AM

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Alas86 said:
I can't help but wonder though, were has Reinhard the brilliant tactician gone? Sure as a strategist he proves his ability time and again, but one can say that's because he has the whole galaxy's resources at his disposal, but tactically he is continuously humbled by inferior fleets, as if his loss against Yang in the battle of Vermillion wasn't enough, he now was nearly killed by Bucock as well. Is he just too powerfull for his own good?


I think he found it easier to win battles when he was in the thick of it, but now he's at the top there's a looooong chain of command which effects things drastically.
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#6
Sep 24, 2009 12:14 AM

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Certainly Bucock's death made me shiver, and yet more after that extremely beautiful song where the whole empire fleet was passing through the whole sea of destroyed battleships.

Anyway I didn't quite get that speech that Reinhard gave to Reuental in the flagship.
I will face another enemy admiral in this format once again...

I wonder if this has a meaning, given out the fact that he noticed Reuental's odd reaction to Reinhard holding the pendant.

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#7
Nov 2, 2009 8:43 AM

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god I'm loving LoGH more & more..

That was a great episode..Bucock's speech...Bucock's death..the empire fleet passing by the alliances destroyed ships..that was defiantly something one have to see..
and those talk about "Kircheis were alive" thing..I wish he really did live..

me also, didn't get what Reinhard told Reuental at the end..
 
#8
Nov 8, 2009 6:36 AM
Hitagi's Pet

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Buckoks toast to democracy is one of the most powerful yet simple homages ever made to democracy. It made me cry
Modified by Farabeuf, Feb 14, 2014 11:52 AM
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
#9
Nov 8, 2009 7:03 AM

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Bucock's death is well delivered. Man it really scares me when the empire run past the remains of the battle. I just think of how many lives were lost and its very frightening. I LOVE THIS SHOW! LOL
 
Nov 17, 2009 4:05 PM

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Mikiyo said:

Anyway I didn't quite get that speech that Reinhard gave to Reuental in the flagship.
I will face another enemy admiral in this format once again...

I wonder if this has a meaning, given out the fact that he noticed Reuental's odd reaction to Reinhard holding the pendant.


Indeed, that was curious. Surely Reinhard wouldn't suggest that they may end up fighting to Reuenthal's face, especially given that Reuenthal simply politely acquiesced? If not Reuenthal, then who did he mean though? Perhaps Reinhard is suggesting that this is the manner in which he would defeat Yang?

I do like these cryptic remarks and the wild speculation they permit us. :)
Modified by fedaykin, Nov 17, 2009 4:11 PM
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Jan 17, 2010 6:53 AM

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R.I.P Bucock.


Alas86 said:


I can't help but wonder though, were has Reinhard the brilliant tactician gone? Sure as a strategist he proves his ability time and again, but one can say that's because he has the whole galaxy's resources at his disposal, but tactically he is continuously humbled by inferior fleets, as if his loss against Yang in the battle of Vermillion wasn't enough, he now was nearly killed by Bucock as well. Is he just too powerfull for his own good?


Well Reinhard is not a God, and we've always been told how Bucock was the best FPA tactician. COnsidering that and his experience, it would have been rather disappointing to have him defeated by Reinhard so easily.
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Jan 18, 2010 11:47 AM

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Bucock... he shouldn't have died, but after that speech he gave, I guess that was the only way he could go.

[salute]

I'm glad Reinhard has Hilde around; without her, things would have ended up much differently from responding to the last Alliance forces to taking over Heinessen.
 
Jun 21, 2010 11:10 AM

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edit: sry posted episode 73 in this thread xD


Modified by Pullman, Jun 21, 2010 12:06 PM


Gentlemen will walk but never run.


 
Oct 30, 2010 2:37 PM

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wow as someone said to me,this was really a great episode,maybe te best in season 3 so far...wait didn't i said that already in some other episode?:)

too bad Reinhard didn't spare Bucock,but i think it was for the best,he would've humiliated him if he would've let him live

RIP Bucock anyway,Lotgh has now one less great character ;(

5/5

PS:i'm sorry if i'm not coherent,i'm a little boozed right now lol
Sayonara,papa!


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Dec 19, 2010 7:37 PM
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After watching this and the previous episode, I realized something. When I first started watching LoGH, it was for the occasional space battle and trudging through the tons of dialogue because it was necessary. Now, this far in, I mostly watch it for the dialogue with the fleet battles being the things I trudge through.

I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
 
Jan 22, 2011 2:01 PM
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Alas86 said:
I can't help but wonder though, were has Reinhard the brilliant tactician gone? Sure as a strategist he proves his ability time and again, but one can say that's because he has the whole galaxy's resources at his disposal, but tactically he is continuously humbled by inferior fleets, as if his loss against Yang in the battle of Vermillion wasn't enough, he now was nearly killed by Bucock as well. Is he just too powerfull for his own good?


I was wondering the same thing. At the beginning of the battle, he seemed to enjoy watching these new guys trying to prove themselves. Maybe he wanted to let them get some experience? It would be too easy to let Mittermeyer and Reuenthal win every battle :D

Really good episode though. Probably one of the bests so far. Made me want to play Total War games.
 
Mar 6, 2011 10:22 AM

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Oresund said:
If Kircheis were alive... ;-;


amen
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Mar 15, 2011 2:38 PM
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Very emotional sendoff for Bucock. *salute*

Also
Oresund said:
If Kircheis were alive... ;-;
 
Apr 5, 2011 5:47 PM

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so now we know why Bucock didn't want children on this mission. I'm sure he knew what the outcome would be :( I wanted to cry after their toast to democracy. Lately I find myself saving quotes from this show.
 
Aug 11, 2011 4:03 AM

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Bucock's last words were the most powerful thing in the show for me so far. Was not expecting that.
"My tables-meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain."
 
Aug 25, 2011 10:16 PM
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Kiercheis was really a great character...he's got everyone thinking the universe would be a better place if he were alive. I wonder if anyone else wants a Kiercheis pendant? I think Reuenthal does...
 
Jan 20, 2012 10:21 PM

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That toast to democrazy has to be right up there with Churchill's speech.
 
Jan 21, 2012 1:01 PM

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Grisle said:
Kiercheis was really a great character...he's got everyone thinking the universe would be a better place if he were alive. I wonder if anyone else wants a Kiercheis pendant? I think Reuenthal does...


I want one too, complete with red hair inside!
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Jan 21, 2012 4:02 PM

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koreye said:
Grisle said:
Kiercheis was really a great character...he's got everyone thinking the universe would be a better place if he were alive. I wonder if anyone else wants a Kiercheis pendant? I think Reuenthal does...


I want one too, complete with red hair inside!


*cuts eyerok's hair and puts into jar*
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
 
Feb 13, 2012 12:56 PM

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Sabinlerose said:
That toast to democrazy has to be right up there with Churchill's speech.
 
Apr 29, 2012 3:33 AM

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The most boring episode this season, but then again I do often find action more boring than, for example, slice of life. Must have been great for people who like space battles.

I've started to speculate again on how this series could possibly end. There's been all that foreshadowing for Yang's demise and now I'm thinking maybe Reinhard will die too, all the talk about how he wants to be defeated in a battle of equals. Foreshadowing aside, as long as both of them remain alive, we're at a stalemate because they're supposedly equal geniuses (although Lohengramm has so far been much more of a blunt force strategist than Yang). If Yang dies, Reinhard would have the galaxy under his thumb, so the whole series would just be a story of the galaxy being subjugated and Julian's growth into leadership would have little meaning. Or maybe he could be instated as a prime minister for autonomous Alliance, but that would leave us in the same situation as the beginning of this season. It's also possible Reinhard dies and the rest of the Empire falls into chaos and struggle for power again with Alliance going on independently. But I doubt that would be the case because the series has seemed like a long struggle to find a balance between two different forms of government. Reinhard's ambition is too big for there to be a balance if he remains alive.

The biggest problem with both of them dying is that Alliance side has shown the growth of a peacetime leader in Julian, but the Empire side has potential rulers only in military personnel like Reuenthal. He would definitely have the hunger for power for such a role but he hasn't shown compassion or skill that would work outside the battlefield. He doesn't seem like a character who would look past the war either, so if a peace was reached he might still have designs to conquer the Alliance. Hildegard is the one who has shown more skills there and she might be a good peacetime leader, but I doubt that would happen in a galaxy that only has about 5 women and some generic drones for Poplan to hit on. Women don't really have power or presence in this series.

So I think the most likely scenario is peaceful coexistence with neither side completely winning. The problem with this scenario is the biggest weakness of autocracy: when one ruler passes away, how to ensure that the next one is equally competent? We haven't seen Annerose lately but I still think she might play a bigger part in the series and she might be the next in line for the throne if Reinhard dies. Unless he marries Hildegard, which might very well happen. So maybe it is a female ruler after all?
 
Apr 30, 2012 6:14 PM

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Bucock's last moments and the recognition of salutes were beautiful.
 
May 13, 2012 9:28 PM

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Incidentally, even after the battle of Marr-Adetta, we're still not two-thirds of the way through the series.

Reinhard said:
Fleet Admiral Reuenthal. It seems that in some near future, I will face another enemy admiral in this format once again.


I'm not going to read too deeply into that line, but...
 
Jun 1, 2012 3:50 AM

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maarsaalis said:
If Kircheis were alive... ;-;
QFT

Mariendorf is as sensible as always, if things progresses as it does, she might replace Yang as my no. 1 favorite LoGH char, from what i see, she makes more sense than most of the people around her, she is more objective than Oberstein (while not being a Machiavellian), and her insight is also a spectacle, it's such a shame she only has ~18 users who added her to their list

Feorg said:

Foreshadowing aside, as long as both of them remain alive, we're at a stalemate because they're supposedly equal geniuses (although Lohengramm has so far been much more of a blunt force strategist than Yang).

Reinhard's ambition is too big for there to be a balance if he remains alive.

IMO, about the tally b/n Yang and Reinhard as of now, i would definitely think Yang wins, it may have been the result of being in a smaller force that allowed him to manipulate a handful amount of tactics to counteract Reinhards massive scaled ambitions and cause headaches for the Imperial Army(eg. using Geographical/Location advantages, being able to set traps, and using do or die tactics and last but not the least, trickery) , but you've got to give credit to the guy, most of the time he manages to come up with something that Reinhard doesn't expect

I agree that Reinhard's ambition is just too big, his massive conquest severely lessens the Density of his forces, he should have just Developed the two corridors and tried an enveloping strategy against the alliance, where they begin to close in slowly towards Alliance territory while building Supply systems and establishing a stable economy, and when Phezzan is pacified, Iserlohn immortalized, they begin a massive scale attack on the Alliance from a point where they at least don't have to worry too much about their escape route or supply lines getting cut off, I'm telling you, the massive attack against the Alliance was a huge bet, regardless of fleet size.

Hildegard is the one who has shown more skills there and she might be a good peacetime leader, but I doubt that would happen in a galaxy that only has about 5 women and some generic drones for Poplan to hit on. Women don't really have power or presence in this series.

I agree, women don't have much presence in this series, but one woman (Hilda), if I might say, accounts for more presence than all of the Admirals combined, she's greater than Mittermeyer and >= Reunthal.
Modified by RadiGen, Jun 1, 2012 4:30 AM
 
Jun 10, 2012 11:51 AM

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In anime, when they wonder so often what would happen if a determined character were alive, that generally means...
 
Aug 14, 2012 2:02 PM

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R.I.P Bucock

This episode made me miss Kircheis even more.
Emile is so lucky; I want to be Reinhard's servant and to help him take off his cape. ;_;
 
Sep 4, 2012 9:13 AM

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Bucocks last words put a tear to my eyes, he was one tough old man
*salute*
 
Sep 4, 2012 9:14 AM

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silversaint said:
Bucocks last words put a tear to my eyes, he was one tough old man
*salute*


But he is just another prey for our lion
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
 
May 29, 2013 10:14 AM

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"Democracy is the philosophy of making friends on equal terms, not of creating master-servant relationships. I want to have good friends and I want to be a good friend to other people. But I don't want to be a good master or to be a good servant. "
- Starfleet Commander Bucock

So simple, yet so beautiful, well said.

I really appreciate how I can root for both factions so easily, unlike certain other shows I can't label any of them as evil with a superficial excuse to do what they are doing. Lohengramm may be a despot, but he is not wicked.

I'm still rooting for Yang Wenli just a bit more though, not to mention that ever since Kircheis passed away, Reinhard hasn't really showed off his tactical/strategist skills. Excellent episode 5/5.
 
Jun 12, 2013 9:30 AM

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Respect for Bucocks ...
 
Jul 4, 2013 2:13 AM
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Bucocks' farewell speech was so beautiful. And in the same breath, he proved that despite Hilda's great tactical insight, she was the one who was narrow-minded. I'm guessing she thought those tough old men refusing to surrender to a great and kind emperor have to be narrow-minded. But Bucocks' master-slave vs equals speech completely shut her trap right there.

And it's precisely why Yang continues to oppose Reinhart and why he never has the ambition to become a ruler. He holds the notion that a bad democracy is still better than a good dictatorship. Plus, men like Reinhart are of a rare breed. The people can oust an elected leader if they want to, but trying to oust a dictator is a whole other thing since he can just crush political dissent (pre-emptively in some cases) it at the first signs.
 
Aug 4, 2013 7:25 PM

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This is the most emotional LOGH battle I've seen, I almost cried.
 
Aug 4, 2013 7:28 PM

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Reinhard said:
Fleet Admiral Reuenthal. It seems that in some near future, I will face another enemy admiral in this format once again.
That would be Yang lol
 
Aug 4, 2013 7:31 PM

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These LOGH discussions are so interesting.
 
Sep 15, 2013 12:27 AM

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Commander Bucock you will be remembered.
*Salute*
 
Sep 23, 2013 10:56 PM

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Wondering when Reinhard will figure out that Yang is now allied with El Facil and not Heinessen.
 
Apr 23, 2014 7:01 PM

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Paurge said:
Bucock was such a great character. I'm glad that Reinhard showed the respect he deserved after his death.


RIP Bucock, you were one of the only decent and moral Commanders in the FPA. Brilliant last battle as well considering the impossibility of victory, you went out with a fight befitting a Veteran Elite. I definitely was crying towards the end, especially by the respect paid to the enemy by the Galactic Empire fleets and their commanders.

Alas86 said:
Bucock's last words to Reinhard really stroke a chord to me, he described his disagreement with autocracy in so simple, yet meaningful, terms that I was completely surprised. Bucock died fullfilled and firm in his beliefs and principles and it speaks for Reinhard's greatness that he recognised these values in his opponent and paid him the respect he deserved.


Yes he is one of the few that lived by his morals and codes, and tried to uphold them till the end. Even Reinhard and his followers hold of him and give him credence.

maar-c said:
If Kircheis were alive... ;-;


Kircheis death is certainly the most important event in all of Logh( I can say this confidently even after only being 3/4th's through it). The history as we are shown would have turned out drastically different if he were around. Things would have been better for both the Galactic Empire and the FPA/Yang Wenli. I still miss him and consider him the 3rd most important character in LOGH even while only being a MC for 1/4th of the show. He is definitely the model for true friendship and loyalty, and I'm sure many of us wish to have an equivalent like him as a friend in our lives.
 
May 12, 2014 12:04 PM

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*Salute*.

This was such a meaningful episode. Bucock and Ootsuka Akio's voiced character will be missed. The final words between them and Reinhard, followed by the toast(s), to the annihilation, to the slow passing by of the dust with every single person saluting on Reinhard's orders.... then the flashback with Kircheis... just so... meaningful. Especially with the talk between Oskar/Mittermyer at the end there.

I think one thing people aren't interpreting right is Reinhard's words to Oskar on the ship. I felt he was praising Oskar's involvement at his side/on his ship by telling him he would like this formation again in his next battle (most likely Yang). Perhaps indirectly keeping him close/within sights as well?

Fraulein is proving so competent as usual. She's amazing. Bittenfield's fleet arrival had everyone holding their breath before it's confirmation lol.

This episode was very impacting so I can get away with a short break here until I continue through the rest of the series.

5/5
 
Aug 9, 2014 3:54 AM

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Whenever shit hits the fan; "If Kircheis were alive... "

;____;
 
Aug 18, 2014 2:49 PM

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RIP Bucock. His end was very touching, both the last drink and the salute that Reinhard ordered.
 
Oct 4, 2014 4:49 PM

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This was a very powerful episode. Bukock's final speech was very well thought out- It tied in very well with Reinhard's concerns within himself regarding his past. (I.E. his constant tinkering with his locket.) The salute scene was great, and overall, the episode once again sets up the next "arc" per se. I cannot wait to see what happens next.
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Nov 13, 2014 4:28 PM

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The Black Lancers got some good looking ships.
 
Mar 6, 2015 7:35 PM

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This fight ended pretty well. I enjoyed it and all its strategy. Buccock was a cool guy. Its too bad that he died.
 
Jun 2, 2015 9:27 AM

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Mad respect to both Reinhard and Bucock, Bucock died a very honourable death. Fitting for his character imo. Great episode.
 
Jun 17, 2015 2:16 PM

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Pretty impressive end of the battle! I do wonder what will happen next!
 
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