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Poll: Legend of the Galactic Heroes Episode 41 Discussion


#1
May 30, 2008 7:32 AM
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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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I was thinking that the alliance attack after Iserlohn was huge but Reinhard's plan is even more ambitious. 100 million personnel and 1 million ships. Does the alliance even have close to that many soldiers remaining?

Even if they have sufficient numbers the politicians are already shooting themselves in the foot. They may think they're preventing Yang from possibly trying a coup afterwards but by attempting to remove his best subordinates from the front line they're only making things worse. It's really depressing to watch because this always puts Yang at the disadvantage.

Reinhard's thoughts had a point. Yang has never been able to realize the true recognition of his services to the alliance. He's been lauded as a national hero on the surface but time and time again he's been used simply as a tool of the politicians. Thinking of making him a Governor in the new empire seems a bit of a stretch though. Yang has never shown such lofty ambitions as gaining high political power and he's even threatened to quit several times already.

...even a saint needs a soldier to do the dirty work.
 
#2
Oct 21, 2008 1:05 PM

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I am excited to see how Operation Ragnarok turns out. Things are not looking good for the FPA but knowing this anime things will probably take a turn for the worse against Reinhard. *remembers last season's ending* Hopefully that does not happen but it probably will.

Ruental continues to gain points in my book as well. I can't wait to see him get more action later on.
 
#3
Sep 6, 2009 10:55 PM

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Ragnarok? What an epic name for a battle in an epic show. Yeah, I doubt Yang would actually become a Governor under Reinhard. But, he can dream and so can we.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
#4
Sep 8, 2009 4:39 AM

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What surprised me more in this episode was the state in which Heinessen finds itself and with this new attack things will get even worse for the people.

and yeah,i like Reuenthal character a lot,i have to wonder if he will ever be forced to take any action against Reinhard...
 
#5
Sep 15, 2009 9:46 AM

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Looking at Reuenthal these last couple of episodes have me thinking that his timer has started, and once that runs out, he'll end up doing something unprecedented. That's something I'll look forward to aside from Operation Ragnarok.
 
#6
Mar 28, 2010 11:16 PM

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This show has a way of feeding you lots of talk about philosophy, strategy and politics and making it paleatable. Find it pretty amazing that Heinessen was such a sh*t hole, by the way. So many examples of ineffective leadership. The main point of this show often seem to me to be that it's not about the system of government, but the people who run it.
 
#7
May 11, 2010 4:38 AM

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Heinessen, LOOKING GOOD.

I can't believe the government is handicapping their best strategist and commander because they fear he wants the Alliance for himself. Seriously, they want to get rid of him - so be it. Put him in jail, even. (I'm sure it wouldn't be so hard to fabricate some asspull charges.) But not when they desperately need him to be as powerful as possible. Come on, it doesn't take a mighty strategist to realise this. He's their best player. Put the cards in his hand, damn it! Use him first, then dispose of him.

Reuenthal is getting more and more interesting. His thinking isn't far behind Lohengramm, seriously. His time to shine is yet to come xP (But I still like Mittermeyer the most.)
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#8
Sep 22, 2010 12:25 PM

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why were all of them so orgasmic about the name ragnarock?lol
pick mee!!pick me!!

it was a good episode:),i liked the little chat between Julian and the other dude

Lohengramm is starting to annoy me

4/5
Sayonara,papa!


"Just how a mirror reflects you,people will also reflect your heart."
~Athena Glory,Aria

"Whatever happens,happens"
~Spike Spiegel's thoughts on dying(Cowboy Bebop)
 
#9
Oct 14, 2010 4:14 AM
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歌は愛♡歌は希望

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DonKangolJones said:
The main point of this show often seem to me to be that it's not about the system of government, but the people who run it.
I think you've summed it up pretty nicely.

I loved this episode. I liked the discussion about democracy in this episode (how essentially 23 people can dominate 77 – why hello there US senate!) and the bit with the secret police being reinstalled under a different name. Names are interesting things.

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Nov 21, 2010 3:04 AM

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It's slightly annoying that Merkatz and the other guy are still wearing their old empire duds. Give them FPA uniforms already. :p
 
Nov 21, 2010 3:12 AM

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walla said:
It's slightly annoying that Merkatz and the other guy are still wearing their old empire duds. Give them FPA uniforms already. :p


Merkatz might be the only character in the whole show I didn't really like or 'get'. I mean I understand 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' philosophy, but his motives still didn't make much sense to me. I think he coasted through life just because he looked a bit like Charles Bronson.
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Nov 21, 2010 4:10 AM

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He mentioned the fact that the kaiser is the most important thing to him (Erwin Josef), and that he will live the last days of his lives to make sure he stays alive..
That ideal get's thrown away along the rest of the series but it would be spoilerish to talk about that here.
 
Nov 21, 2010 9:10 AM

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OK It just hit me to watch the episode (ep 23) where Merkatz decided to defect. In another thread I said that he defected because he was too proud to give himself to Reinhard after losing in battle. Thats partially true.

When Fahrenheit (I think) asks him why he's fighting a losing battle, Merkatz says something to the effect that he sees no reason to go on without the nation (gauldenbaum dynasty) that he has fought to defend for over 40 years of his life, and with its end he thinks his life as a soldier and his reason to live on is over. He advises Fahrenheit to not throw away his life because he is much younger.

Towards the end of the episode, when Merkatz's subordinate stops him from committing suicide, he says that he is too proud to submit to lohengramm, and he knows only shame from his defeat. It makes sense in a way, he still considers himself soldier of the empire, and Reinhard is an usurper he fought against to defend the gauldenbaum dynasty. His subordinate persuades him to live so he can fight for another day. 'Defecting' to FPA is the only way to do that (technically its not defection to him since his allegiance is to the kaiser, not Reinhard)
Modified by eyerok, Nov 21, 2010 9:21 AM
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Nov 25, 2010 11:04 PM

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I am sick and tired of that Merkatz guy. Julian is pretty much a boring character when he is not with Yang.

So what happened to the Kaiser...? I wonder if Reinhard will marry the 8-month old baby to enthrone himself
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
 
Nov 26, 2010 2:03 AM

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Confucius said:

So what happened to the Kaiser...? I wonder if Reinhard will marry the 8-month old baby to enthrone himself


LOL
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Nov 27, 2010 1:38 PM
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clannad4ever said:
why were all of them so orgasmic about the name ragnarock?lol
pick mee!!pick me!!

it was a good episode:),i liked the little chat between Julian and the other dude

Lohengramm is starting to annoy me

4/5

I know I'm probably a little late in explaining this, but oh well. The Galactic Empire seem to have their national religion being based on Norse Mythology (Valhalla, Odin, etc.) In Norse Mythology, Ragnarok is the final battle between good and evil, the war to end all wars, so to speak, so of course everyone would want to have the honor of leading the offensive in a military operation called Ragnarok.

Make sense, sort of?
 
Nov 28, 2010 5:13 AM

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BrentD said:
clannad4ever said:
why were all of them so orgasmic about the name ragnarock?lol
pick mee!!pick me!!

it was a good episode:),i liked the little chat between Julian and the other dude

Lohengramm is starting to annoy me

4/5

I know I'm probably a little late in explaining this, but oh well. The Galactic Empire seem to have their national religion being based on Norse Mythology (Valhalla, Odin, etc.) In Norse Mythology, Ragnarok is the final battle between good and evil, the war to end all wars, so to speak, so of course everyone would want to have the honor of leading the offensive in a military operation called Ragnarok.

Make sense, sort of?


oh...yeah that makes sense,thanks for the explanation:)
but i wouldn't have thought the empire people are so relligious..
Sayonara,papa!


"Just how a mirror reflects you,people will also reflect your heart."
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"Whatever happens,happens"
~Spike Spiegel's thoughts on dying(Cowboy Bebop)
 
Mar 6, 2011 11:34 PM
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Compared to what we saw of Rudolf in the last episode, Reinhard is identical at this point in his life. He's fallen pretty far from when Kircheis was around (secret police!!), and his sister has yet to be assassinated or even hurt. Once that happens, I can see Reinhard adding some kind of purge to his list of evil deeds... OH WAIT, 2 million citizens nuked and a galactic invasion starting.

What else can he do, evil-wise?
 
Mar 20, 2011 5:46 PM

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man, anime creators love to name important plot points 'ragnarok,' don't they?
 
Aug 11, 2011 7:48 PM
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It's about to go down...The buildup is getting tense. I hope Reinhard doesn't stray too far from the path. Hopefully Hildegard can keep him from doing really nasty things...unfortunately I think he'll just do them and either try to rationalize with her or apologize. I like my heroes to be galactic!
 
Nov 3, 2011 9:54 PM

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Stupid ass Alliance politicians.

Ragnarok, lets do this!
 
Feb 7, 2012 11:41 AM

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itbegins.tiff
 
Apr 28, 2012 2:45 PM

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Lang just described one of the pitfalls of a strong two-party system (and for any Americans here, his example is particularly pertinent to our Senate, seeing as how he used the number 100). If a party holds a 51% majority and members of that party aren't willing to cross party lines, then the majority of that majority -- 26% -- will control the entire 100%. That's obviously an extreme example, because few parties throughout history haven't had members cross lines on occasion, and legislatures (thankfully) don't always draft bills unilaterally. But it's an interesting political science thought experiment.
 
Jun 3, 2012 9:07 PM

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Luthimal said:
Compared to what we saw of Rudolf in the last episode, Reinhard is identical at this point in his life. He's fallen pretty far from when Kircheis was around (secret police!!), and his sister has yet to be assassinated or even hurt. Once that happens, I can see Reinhard adding some kind of purge to his list of evil deeds... OH WAIT, 2 million citizens nuked and a galactic invasion starting.

What else can he do, evil-wise?


I'll admit that I sometimes disagree with Reinhard's actions, but there is no way I can say he's similar to Rudolf. Sure he's underhanded at times, but many a person has proclaimed that his reformations are actually helping the Empire. Remember he's trying to be the antitheses to Rudolf. Though, yeah, he has fallen a bit from who he was before.

He definitely isn't "evil" though. It's pretty clear he regrets his actions, hell I even take the scene at the end of the episode as him somewhat wondering what his life would have been like if he wasn't in this situation. This was actually explored a bit in episode 26, when Kircheis died.

Also, maybe I missed something, but is Reinhard even aware about the Secret Police thing? I was under the impression that Oberstein was doing this without his knowledge.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

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Jul 3, 2013 9:40 AM

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Wow, this has to be the only time a planned operation is worthy of the name "Ragnarok". The Gotterdammerung and the Twilight of Reinhard and Yang's conflict and all that! This is going to be epic.

Whoever made that earlier comment about Oberstein being a robot and the bad genetics was mentioned just to throw the viewer off is brilliant. Who is his seiyuu, MS Sam? I really like his voice acting and expressionless face. The guy is cold. :S Secret police and all the other ways he's pulled Reinhard into a dark rule. I hope the previous episode isn't implying that history will repeat itself in Reinhard's reign. I have been supporting him through his friendship with Siegfried, but I cannot rationalize some of his recent actions.:\ He needs to be reminded of his ideals and morals. Even if you must dirty your hands to reach Reinhard's position (I'm not inclined to agree), you don't need to sacrifice two million innocents. Oberstein has to go. (Even if he is one of my favorite characters.)
 
Jul 30, 2013 11:36 PM

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LOL the throne succeeded by a 8 month old baby.
 
Sep 17, 2013 7:30 AM

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Can't wait to see how this will all go down. I'm guessing though that the plan will not be a success, or else I really wonder what will happen for the next 70 episodes . . .
 
Feb 26, 2014 4:45 PM

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I am wondering too if that secret police is just Oberstain's plan and if Reinhard is even aware of that...
 
Aug 6, 2014 7:01 AM

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I really don't like the amount of initiative that Oberstein takes, that guy needs to be reeled in fast before he gets carried away.
 
Sep 27, 2014 5:46 AM

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Tsukaji said:
I am wondering too if that secret police is just Oberstain's plan and if Reinhard is even aware of that...
I agree. Does Reinhard even know about this secret police thing?? They didn't show any scenes of him knowing therefore I assume not.
Vexper said:
I really don't like the amount of initiative that Oberstein takes, that guy needs to be reeled in fast before he gets carried away.
Yes! F*CK OFF OBERSTEIN. Hes going to end up destroying Reinhard. As Ruental mentioned, Reinhard is a good leader because he is impartial and righteous. Oberstein is helping Reinhard do none of that.....If Reinhard loses Ruental I am going to be immensely pissed and sad.

I extremely hope this secret police thing will be quickly abolished and nothing will happen :((( (Although I rather doubt it).

PLEASE Hilda save Reinhard!!! I don't want him travelling down the path towards ruin!! :(((
 
Nov 5, 2014 9:05 PM

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Shit's about to go down.
 
Feb 28, 2015 2:46 PM

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Good episode. I want to see this Ragnarok battle really badly, it's probably gonna be great.
 
Mar 7, 2015 1:47 PM

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Sweet development with a steady pace, let's see what's next!
 
May 28, 2015 6:32 AM

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Holy shit, this Ragnarok battle could be the best fight we have seen so far looking at the risk and how dangerous this plan is. I'm so hyped for dis battle.
 
Jun 11, 2015 2:19 PM

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DonKangolJones said:
This show has a way of feeding you lots of talk about philosophy, strategy and politics and making it paleatable. Find it pretty amazing that Heinessen was such a sh*t hole, by the way. So many examples of ineffective leadership. The main point of this show often seem to me to be that it's not about the system of government, but the people who run it.


That's the theme of the show and that different system of government have their pros and cons. Some systems like hereditary autocracy is more prone to bad governance than a representative democracy. But ultimately, it's about who runs the system rather than the system itself. Like Yang said, a nation (or system of government) is a tool. You can say that a guns are correlated with more deaths of innocent than knives but when push comes to shove and lives (including your own) need to be defended, you'd rather have a gun than a knife. The political American argument "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" might seem very silly but it has a point: the ultimate guilt lies not on the tool but on the person using it. It's the same with systems of government. So good governance, means good personnel and a good system is a reflection of good personnel. At the end of the day, laws, principles and ideas are just words on paper and it's up to people to breathe them.
Modified by CyberNT, Jun 11, 2015 2:30 PM
 
Jun 29, 2015 1:03 AM

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I'm pretty hyped for operation Ragnarock. Can't even begin to guess how it will all go down.
 
Jul 22, 2015 6:52 PM

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How in the hell can an 8 month old be appointed as Kaiserin?!

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Jul 23, 2015 12:32 AM

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Hannah_Ana said:
How in the hell can an 8 month old be appointed as Kaiserin?!

Sent with Mal Updater


Having an 8 month old as the Kaiserin would make it easy for people to exploit their power.

But yea, gotta love how hereditary position works.
 
Apr 1, 2016 1:10 AM

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That 8-month-old Kaiserin is so cute! I would do anything she asks me to!
 
May 12, 2016 10:01 PM

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Yang wants to block the Phezzan corridor with civilian ships? It's not a river! The sense of physical scale in this series is shockingly tiny sometimes despite the massive fleets of ships. Similarly, if either side wanted to use the corridor to attack the other, how could Phezzan stop them? This is space, they don't need to pay any attention to planet Phezzan itself, just fly past it.

Normally by this point I'd be acclimated to the pulpy space-opera aspects of this show but then it threw in some actual sci-fi with the tide trick in the battle with Geiersburg.

tainteddonut said:
Reinhard's thoughts had a point. Yang has never been able to realize the true recognition of his services to the alliance. He's been lauded as a national hero on the surface but time and time again he's been used simply as a tool of the politicians. Thinking of making him a Governor in the new empire seems a bit of a stretch though. Yang has never shown such lofty ambitions as gaining high political power and he's even threatened to quit several times already.

I think you've hit on something important. Reinhard thinks Yang hungers to be recognized for his accomplishments but as you say he frequently contemplates quitting; not because he isn't recognized but because of the harassment and obstruction his superiors subject him to.

Is Reinhard assuming that Yang is like himself? A misreading that Yang may also be guilty of as he seems to think co-existence with Reinhard is possible when in truth he's very aggressive. These men don't actually know each other only perceive each other as equals who make tough adversaries. Do they both have blind spots with regards to the actual character of their opposite?
 
Jun 13, 2016 2:49 PM

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Awww! Rupert just wants to be loved by his father like Julian xD
 
Mar 4, 2017 12:22 AM

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Begin the Ragnarok, the great last battle?!


Hello, my litte boy!


 
Feb 2, 2018 7:48 AM

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Great episode I love that name better than the old ones, Reuental is closer and closer to the darkness.
 
Sep 6, 2018 1:23 PM
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Ohh, no, I have a feeling that the FPA is going to be fucked so badly, SO BADLY. I'm surprised at Reinheard's thought about giving Yang a military position though...
 
Sep 21, 2018 2:17 AM

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I'm not keen enough to understand what that look between Oberstein and Hilda meant during Reinhard's explanation of Operation Ragnarok. Was it their doubt in the plan?
 
Sep 21, 2018 9:05 PM

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eski514 said:
I'm not keen enough to understand what that look between Oberstein and Hilda meant during Reinhard's explanation of Operation Ragnarok. Was it their doubt in the plan?


For Oberstein, he's more concerned about the usefulness of Boltik, which he elaborated in the next scene.

For Hilda, she's just simply opposed to expanding the war at this stage, as evident in her conversation later with Reinhard.
 
Sep 21, 2018 10:12 PM

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MagisterArcanum said:
For Oberstein, he's more concerned about the usefulness of Boltik, which he elaborated in the next scene.

For Hilda, she's just simply opposed to expanding the war at this stage, as evident in her conversation later with Reinhard.
Thanks. I think the last time they had a conversation on screen was in Episode 35, and it's not like they came to agreement on anything there. I wasn't sure if the glance over meant they shared sentiments regarding the situation.

Oberstein is depicted as the one to look over at Hilda. Maybe he was checking on how Reinhard's other advisor was reacting to the plan. He likely feels as though he has an edge over Hilda, since she admitted she finds it hard to persuade Reinhard, whereas Oberstein has been able to do so already without much trouble.
 
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