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| THIS IS AN MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- This one-shot was incredibly awesome... nuff said. |
ZinnKidJun 16, 2008 8:57 PM
| lol you say chapter one like there is going to be more... but I agree it was very good I really liked how the AI kept singing A Wonderful World... I about bawled at the end and thats unusual for me |
| One of the best one shots I've read. |
| I love this. Makes me sad. Doesn't it make you think? About what we are doing right now to the world? Hm... I wasn't surprise that human DNA wouldn't be preserved. Cause we are the main reason why this world is going through what it's going through. I don't know if we even deserved the chance to have even been human. To even be like we are right now. |
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| Direct 10 after finishing reading it. Great story... With a great morale. I loved the fact that the professor didn't want the human DNA to be preserved. Giving our guilt as the reason for us to cease to exist. |
| Excellent one shot.Considering it's themes, I started reading half expecting a preachy 40+ pages of good art, but I was very surprised, not once did it feel preachy.His other one shot "Present" was pretty good too. |
henjin said: pleaseee can anyone give me a link where to download this manga pleaaseeee http://kotonoha.monkey-pirate.com/one-shots/ |
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| Just finished reading it, in fact the first one shot i have read and the one that will set the standard for the ones to come .... i love it. |
| This is way too good. Hopefully, it's too good to be true. |
| This was a nice one shot, I very much liked it. |
| awesome...i loved it. it makes me feel like we're gonna end up like that one day.all the more,purely awesome... ;_; it's so sad *sniffle* |
| When I finished the story, I did feel vibes of AI (the movie). There are many similar themes shared between the two. A really nice oneshot story, btw. |
| What a fantastic one-shot. Anyone else actually listen to What a Wonderful World when Louis was singing it in the manga? That part was one of the reasons I loved it so much. |
| Most overrated manga ever. I'm a scientist myself, so I was laughing for the first few pages at the hilariously incompetent scientific explanations and reasoning behind the catastrophic global warming. Clearly, the author spent his junior high science class periods learning how to draw manga, and not doing any meaningful study. Unlike the author's far superior one-shot "Present", there was also no real surprise or depth to the ending. Very predictable, with countless logic and continuity errors. (Why did it take the drones 27 million years to figure out that the human DNA was destroyed?) 4/10. Bad. |
| But dude, you gave Island a 9 and call it 'best one shot', how does that make any sense? The writing in that manga was awful, every line of dialogue was written and delivered as if from a cue-card for an audience of retards, the story was even more illogical than Hotel, but with Hotel at least the main narrative is compelling enough with the epic passage of time and a planet devoid of all human life. Seriously, I read Island and clicked away with disgust at its high score. The author is incompetent, and his other works continue his trend of taking cliched philosophical notions and peppering them with lazy expositional writing delievered by mannequins or those silly characters you walk up to in a shitty RPG and click the 'a' button and they give a long explanation to help you know where to go next, and it's all latched onto a premise that could have had potential but were ruined through sheer laziness and incompetence. The kids will lap up the author's manga because he holds their hand the whole way through and yet never fully realises the philosophical question's consequences, he does the same with with Personant, there's this premise with good potential but it's all over before he can explore the full ramifications of what he's writing about, it's because he's not capable or at the whims of his editor. But Hotel at least goes all the way with its ideas, there's nothing half-arsed about its story, however much the technical aspects will irritate you. I didnt really care if Hotel wasnt scientifically possible, the narrative is solid, even with the few hiccups along the way (didnt want the humour myself) it still resonates for being a portrayal of humanity's ultimate destiny and redemption. Why ShaolinRibeiro? Why Island? WHY MUST YOU DO THIS!? |
BeatnikMay 19, 2009 6:25 AM
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
Beatnik said: But dude, you gave Island a 9 and call it 'best one shot', how does that make any sense? The writing in that manga was awful, every line of dialogue was written and delivered as if from a cue-card for an audience of retards, the story was even more illogical than Hotel, The dialogue was perfectly believable, given that the two main protagonists are children, and everyone else is the equivalent of a village yokel. As for it being illogical...it's far-fetched, and doesn't really stand up to the scrutiny of physical science, but it's simultaneously more original and marginally more believable than the absurdly idiotic global warming premise behind "Hotel". At least rising sea levels and continental drift are confirmed scientific facts. Beatnik said: but with Hotel at least the main narrative is compelling enough with the epic passage of time and a planet devoid of all human life. I disagree. Maybe I'm a bit influenced by having read several science fiction short stories (one was by David Brin, I think) that were about the exact same thing; giant, self-aware supercomputer left to spend time on a planet all alone. Difference is, the latter handled it in a much more thoughtful and interesting manner than this particular one-shot did. Beatnik said: Seriously, I read Island and clicked away with disgust at its high score. The author is incompetent, and his other works continue his trend of taking cliched philosophical notions and peppering them with lazy expositional writing delievered by mannequins or those silly characters you walk up to in a shitty RPG and click the 'a' button and they give a long explanation to help you know where to go next, and it's all latched onto a premise that could have had potential but were ruined through sheer laziness and incompetence. Haven't read his other works yet (although I plan to), but again, couldn't disagree more about "The Island". Not only was the twist sneaky and unexpected, but ultimately, its moral is very deep for this type of story. Think about it; one character has a strong desire to accomplish something. Just desire, nothing else. Unfortunately, they're confronted with the cold, hard, bitter reality that it's all hopeless. However, then we see that another character also had this powerful desire, but in her case, she supplemented with YEARS OF HARD WORK, STRUGGLE, AND STUDY, until finally, she was in a position to do something about it. You're really doing a great disservice to the work if you compare it to an RPG. Beatnik said: But Hotel at least goes all the way with its ideas, there's nothing half-arsed about its story, however much the technical aspects will irritate you. I could see the ending of Hotel a mile away, and it was riddled with plot holes, and not particularly interesting, either. Island's ending was unexpected and an example of an excellent theme. Beatnik said: it still resonates for being a portrayal of humanity's ultimate destiny and redemption. What does that even mean in the context of what occurred in the manga? If the fundamental premise is flawed (global warming will destroy the Earth), then how is their depiction of "humanity's ultimate destiny" even remotely relevant? Beatnik said: Why ShaolinRibeiro? Why Island? WHY MUST YOU DO THIS!? I'll read Komi's other works, but I have to say; he looks pretty cool, his taste in manga is very good, and he's only a year older than me. Don't be a hater. |
ShaolinRibeiro said: The dialogue was perfectly believable, given that the two main protagonists are children, and everyone else is the equivalent of a village yokel. They dont even reach yokel level, I mean all I'm seeing is the author's 'voice' and not the characters. He knows he doesnt have many pages so he just throws exposition at the viewer in the most half-arsed way possible. With Hotel you've got scientists at conferences and shit, the exposition is fit into the story naturally. As for it being illogical...it's far-fetched, and doesn't really stand up to the scrutiny of physical science, but it's simultaneously more original and marginally more believable than the absurdly idiotic global warming premise behind "Hotel". At least rising sea levels and continental drift are confirmed scientific facts. Well I personally think Hotel is more original and believeable than the millionth take on Plato's Cave and an island in the middle of nowhere that ended up in that specific life-sustaining position and kept a secret for so long. Honestly, I'm not playing devil's advocate in this thread, I just personally preferred one story over another by a long margin. I disagree. Maybe I'm a bit influenced by having read several science fiction short stories (one was by David Brin, I think) that were about the exact same thing; giant, self-aware supercomputer left to spend time on a planet all alone. Difference is, the latter handled it in a much more thoughtful and interesting manner than this particular one-shot did. Well lets be honest, manga will never compare to literature. A classic supercomputer story is one by Harlan Ellison called 'I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream' which you've probably read. Hotel is like the flipside of that, while one is full of despair, the other is hopeful, but both are about following through with the ramifications of humanity's destruction. Island doesnt follow through with anything, the main character doesnt even fight to find out the truth, it's just handed to her on a plate, there's barely any conflict at all, which I think is yet another reason why it fails for me as a narrative, there's just barely any conflict at all, and I mean that in the scriptwriting sense, not fighting battle sense. As soon as there's a meaty conflict taking place, it's over before it barely begun, and that's because I dont think the author can handle the complexities. I'm telling you man, he writes philosophy 101 Lite and its frustrating as hell. Think about it; one character has a strong desire to accomplish something. Just desire, nothing else. Unfortunately, they're confronted with the cold, hard, bitter reality that it's all hopeless. However, then we see that another character also had this powerful desire, but in her case, she supplemented with YEARS OF HARD WORK, STRUGGLE, AND STUDY, until finally, she was in a position to do something about it. You're really doing a great disservice to the work if you compare it to an RPG. That's the point for me. There is nothing else. The character has a desire, they're handed the truth on a platter without any form of struggle or conscious decision to get to the truth themselves, and within five minutes they're managed to turn every other character in the story to their way of thinking. It's so smooth and swift it's just laughable to me, and any kind of thematic meaning is robbed, it's pointless when it's attached to such a weak narrative. At least Neo actively chose the red pill. With Hotel, characters are struggling and making conscious decisions all the time, you can feel the conflict all the time. I could see the ending of Hotel a mile away, and it was riddled with plot holes, and not particularly interesting, either. Island's ending was unexpected and an example of an excellent theme. Well to be honest, Hotel isnt based around a Shylamamalongdingdong twist so its ok if you saw the ending coming a mile away. I saw Island's ending coming a mile away but then again I'm a Matrix nut and can identify a Plato's Cave within seconds. What does that even mean in the context of what occurred in the manga? If the fundamental premise is flawed (global warming will destroy the Earth), then how is their depiction of "humanity's ultimate destiny" even remotely relevant? Duuude, dont go there, lol. Island's premise is fucking Disney level of fantasty! The context of Hotel is humanity's extinction, the meaning is humanity's creation dealing with the aftermath in an ironically human way. Island is watching someone play a very short and lame RPG, the character meets people, gets info, chooses option B at the end, cue FMV ending. I'll read Komi's other works, but I have to say; he looks pretty cool, his taste in manga is very good, and he's only a year older than me. Don't be a hater. I'll always respect you, but I think my destiny is to hate this author. It just...feels so right! |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
Beatnik said: They dont even reach yokel level, I mean all I'm seeing is the author's 'voice' and not the characters. He knows he doesnt have many pages so he just throws exposition at the viewer in the most half-arsed way possible. With Hotel you've got scientists at conferences and shit, the exposition is fit into the story naturally. What's half-assed or difficult to believe about that scene? A bunch of villagers who grew up their entire lives in the narrow confines of their little island, never seriously thought about the outside world aside from their childish fancies, confront a youth about this? Beatnik said: Well I personally think Hotel is more original and believeable than the millionth take on Plato's Cave and an island in the middle of nowhere that ended up in that specific life-sustaining position and kept a secret for so long. Honestly, I'm not playing devil's advocate in this thread, I just personally preferred one story over another by a long margin. That's fine, but saying that "Hotel" is more logical, plausible, and internally consistent than "Island" is simply wrong. It's the exact opposite. Beatnik said: Well lets be honest, manga will never compare to literature. A classic supercomputer story is one by Harlan Ellison called 'I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream' which you've probably read. Hotel is like the flipside of that, while one is full of despair, the other is hopeful, but both are about following through with the ramifications of humanity's destruction. Indeed, but the point remains; "Hotel", even by the standards of comics, lacked the twist ending, depth, and excitement I've come to expect from quality manga. Beatnik said: Island doesnt follow through with anything, the main character doesnt even fight to find out the truth, it's just handed to her on a plate, there's barely any conflict at all, which I think is yet another reason why it fails for me as a narrative, there's just barely any conflict at all, and I mean that in the scriptwriting sense, not fighting battle sense. As soon as there's a meaty conflict taking place, it's over before it barely begun, and that's because I dont think the author can handle the complexities. I'm telling you man, he writes philosophy 101 Lite and its frustrating as hell. But that's not the point of the work at all. The contrast is between the main character and his more intelligent, reserved friend. The central theme is that DESIRE IS NOT ENOUGH. There's not meant to be any conflict. The whole story is a metaphor for attaining one's hopes and desires. The villagers all represent individuals whose dreams have been crushed many years ago. The main character is about to become one of them, when the girl shows that she succeeded where everyone else failed, through hard work, dedication, and intelligence. Beatnik said: That's the point for me. There is nothing else. The character has a desire, they're handed the truth on a platter without any form of struggle or conscious decision to get to the truth themselves, and within five minutes they're managed to turn every other character in the story to their way of thinking. It's so smooth and swift it's just laughable to me, and any kind of thematic meaning is robbed, it's pointless when it's attached to such a weak narrative. At least Neo actively chose the red pill. Why does there need to be any conflict? Why is that in any way necessary to a story like this? Beatnik said: Duuude, dont go there, lol. Island's premise is fucking Disney level of fantasty! The context of Hotel is humanity's extinction, the meaning is humanity's creation dealing with the aftermath in an ironically human way. Island is watching someone play a very short and lame RPG, the character meets people, gets info, chooses option B at the end, cue FMV ending. You have it backwards; "Hotel" is the extremely simplistic, thoughtless story riddled with plot holes like Swiss cheese. As a further example, why is it that the supercomputer is consistently breaking down despite its ability to produce vehicles to mine the Earth, construct new panels, generate electricity, and even harness nuclear energy? Makes no sense. Meanwhile, you're simply deriding "Island" with no real support. You keep mentioning a lack of a conflict, when that was never meant to be a part of the story. You might as well criticize Kandinsky or Picasso's paintings as trash because their paintings don't feature anatomically accurate human figures. It's an artificial standard for judging a work which by no means determines its quality. Beatnik said: I'll always respect you, but I think my destiny is to hate this author. It just...feels so right! I'll see what I think after reading some of his other works. |
ShaolinRibeiro said: Why does there need to be any conflict? Why is that in any way necessary to a story like this? You keep mentioning a lack of a conflict, when that was never meant to be a part of the story. What I mean is that all stories have conflict. Every single one in existence. Conflict is opposing forces hitting together, in every scene if it's a really good story, but Island barely has any conflict at all, and its genre isnt even 'slice of life' which is a genre notable for having as least amount of conflict as possible, or at least in importance to the main character, but Island is supposed to be a sci-fi/fantasy/drama! As I said earlier, conflict doesnt have to be a literal fight or argument, it just means for every positive there has to be a negative, in order for a story to compelling in any way at all for the reader or viewer, and Island obviously does not escape entirely from this age-old technique of storytelling, there is conflict, but it has so little conflict, and in a genre that's ripe for it, that it fails as a decent story. You said the girl succeeds because of three qualities, but we never see it at all. I mean she just wanders around the island yapping away, I dont see anything heroic in her actions, except at the end, but its an empty and hollow victory. For me, we just see a girl who supposedly is like this, and she's apparently done that, then she's handed the truth on a platter, she gives a little speech and everyone rolls with it. It's pathetic. I, as the reader, cant believe in this character, I cant find her admirable or compelling or worthy or anything like that at all, because she's just written very badly by the author. Think about every take on Plato's Cave, in every medium, my favourite movie versions off the top of my head would be The Matrix and The Truman Show, but in all the best stories the main character struggles for the truth, its what makes them worth watching or reading about, and there is conflict throughout every scene or page. Island just doesnt match up to these requirements for me, it falls flat and is too hackneyed. Here's an example of the conflict I wanted from Island. Choice. Force the girl to make hard choices throughout the story. That's all it would have took. Finally, to continue to lambast Hotel for its breaks in logic would mean you have a grasp of the future technology depicted in the story. You and I obviously dont so therefore the author can pretty much get away with anything when it comes to technological aspects. He could explain it in any number of ways, he could have a character just ramble on about nanobots or some bullshit, but that's not the point of this sci-fi, its not meant to be 'hard sci-fi', but more philosophical. Even if is hard sci-fi, he still doesnt have to explain how the technology works, the point is that he never introduces a rule then breaks it afterwards. How can you accuse the story of being illogical when you dont even know how the technology works? Because its set in the future, the reader just has to assume that when the supercomputer is breaking bit by bit over the years, it can still produce new panels and vehicles by 'regeneration' technology it is capable of. It's not illogical within th context of the story because the story is set in the future and is about a friggin super AI that obviously doesnt exist in the present day. So long as the author doesnt clearly state regeneration technology doesnt exist or can only work under certain conditions, then he can do anything. No rules are broken so it's ok. Sorry for the lack of proper quoting, I'm in a rush today. Also, I feel like we're just accusing each other of the same thing (your last paragraph about paintings) and will never compromise. Story of the Internet, hah. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
| Wow. The second page of comments with only 6 entries is already so much longer than first page. No wonder it took my phone so long to load the page. |
Beatnik said: What I mean is that all stories have conflict. Every single one in existence. Conflict is opposing forces hitting together, in every scene if it's a really good story, but Island barely has any conflict at all, and its genre isnt even 'slice of life' which is a genre notable for having as least amount of conflict as possible, or at least in importance to the main character, but Island is supposed to be a sci-fi/fantasy/drama! If you're taking such a generic approach to conflict, then yes, absolutely, "Island" features this as well. It's the battle between one's desires and dreams and the cold, hard slap of reality across the face. Beatnik said: You said the girl succeeds because of three qualities, but we never see it at all. I mean she just wanders around the island yapping away, I dont see anything heroic in her actions, except at the end, but its an empty and hollow victory. For me, we just see a girl who supposedly is like this, and she's apparently done that, then she's handed the truth on a platter, she gives a little speech and everyone rolls with it. It's pathetic. I, as the reader, cant believe in this character, I cant find her admirable or compelling or worthy or anything like that at all, because she's just written very badly by the author. Yes, and the reason one doesn't see this is that the work is a ONE-SHOT. Your exact same arguments can be applied to any number of fantastic short stories by the writers as diverse as F Scott Fitzgerald, Stephen King, and David Brin. Personally, I think you just hate the manga author's style, heh. |
| Both of you make interesting points and are entitled to your own opinions, but honestly, I enjoyed both 'The Island' and the 'Hotel'. Whether they are scientifically inaccurate, or occur too smoothly for a realistic story, doesn't matter. That isn't the point of these stories. The morals both stories were trying to communicate are what make them so enjoyable. To have hope in the face of something that seems impossible. Both beautiful, short, sweet, and to the point. |
lessthan3 said: Both of you make interesting points and are entitled to your own opinions, but honestly, I enjoyed both 'The Island' and the 'Hotel'. Whether they are scientifically inaccurate, or occur too smoothly for a realistic story, doesn't matter. That isn't the point of these stories. You have a point. (Although I haven't read Island - yet.) I, too, was squinting at the faulty setting of the plot, but this one-shot wasn't meant to scientifically describe the possible outcome and future of humans and Earth, or at least that's what I believe. Instead it was meant as a narration of Louie's life, the way he (it?) perceived everything. And socially and psychologically, it turned out as a job well done. It hit right on the spot, giving us human -thoughts- and thoughts of that which was created by humans and solely for humans, quite beautifully too. Now don't go all logical and scientific on me, 'cause I myself am not far from that mindset, but the 'faults' in the manga are irrelevant. We lost on the plausibility, but we gained a genius outlook on existence. 'Kay, genius may not be the right word, but it is up there. :/ Plus, I think this made me start liking the human kind, a bit. Now what I was planning to say... This is the best thing I have ever read in my life. Seriously. |
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| I just think Hotel was great. Period. Going to read The Island next and compare. |
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| After having read the Island i have to agree with Beatnik |
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well the comments were from a year ago and those posters have probably forgotten what they said, but just to clarify 140,000 is not 0 |
| ^Can't you put the image in a spoiler tag? Just for the sake of space and the ones that are forced to use dial-tone speed pleasuuuuu!!! XD Well there are two obvious facts.... Hotel has a better art (as for it's seinen nature) and both Island and Hotel are dramatic sci-fi one shot mangas... With that said, we can simply expand our horizons and point out the differences.... I liked both... But Hotel is undeniably better than Island.... Both are full of hazy scientific facts, both talk about hope, both have a pair of remarkable characters.... But man... IMO, Hotel has a better way to take on its story... Somehow it flows better... The story has a beginning and and end... A plausible, yet awaited, end within its limits... Narrative is kewl... BTW... It's about the "Hotel" ain't it? Then what's the problem with this being like a diary? the story's about the friggin' computer people!! Yes the continuity is broken, there are some big gaps of time left, but man time is virtual when reading manga... I can easily put you an example... Bakuman... Tell me how much time has passed since it started??? 2 almost 3 years ne? Has it plot suffered from the time gaps? It hasn't right? SO it's great to have this kind of narrative... I totally loved how the author played with the time... And the AI of the computer.. I loved it The comedy was the only unnecessary thing here... And WTH!!! with that Keira Knightley huh? I lol'ed hard time when I knew Loius mom was named K.K. XD... Maaaaan poor thing... Singing "What a Beautiful World" all alone!! that has to be depressing... One of nicest manga one shots out there... This full of political propaganda... Oh who gives a dime... The premise was enough for me to make this quite interesting... nuff said! Signs, Green |
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| Awesome awesome. I love post-apocalyptic stuff, and i love AI. |
| Very good. It is scientifically inaccurate and all, but I threw that out the window. It is a damn good manga, no matter what anyone says. It's thought provoking, and that in of itself is why I read manga. |
| totally rips-off Tezuka's Phoenix. A masterpiece nonetheless. |
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| pfff, woah, this was completely tasteless and retarded manga :( |
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| the singing of 'what a wonderful world' was unneeded and made me cringe more than anything else. however the rest of it was great. |
| That's one hell of an awesome one shot. |
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.~ |
| Best one-shot i've read so far. |
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| keira knightley is a Professor ! Future looks bright xD |
| Just read this. I thought it was amazing and it really does apply to us now. First 10 I've given a manga but I think it really is deserving. Pretty sad too, but it's great. Now going to read Island and see what they're talking about XD |
Osianilist said: Best one-shot i've read so far. QFT This deserves the tears of great man. |
| Best one shot I've ever read. |
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kurochaos said: Osianilist said: Best one-shot i've read so far. QFT This deserves the tears of great man. QFTFQFT The end was...i got some dust in my eyes i guess >_> a lot of dust, yep. |
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| One word. FANTASTIC |
"Perhaps the distant part of the sky always seems clearest, so that we will always strive to reach it."  chiquit |
| Oh my goodness, I cried like a mother fucker. 27 million years. It's salty. |
Fai said: The end was...i got some dust in my eyes i guess >_> a lot of dust, yep. yeah me too... Alot of dust T_T. |
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| The best oneshot ever !!! :D |
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| Ugh, such a blatant rip-off of Arthur Clarke's The Songs of Distant Earth and the movie Artificial Intelligence. Haha, but it was still good. Wish there was at least some originality in the story, because every idea I saw implemented was stolen. Edit: Sucks how ignorant everyone here is about this. The guy blatantly stole other peoples' work. Says a lot about his character... |
lucjanFeb 9, 2011 8:37 PM
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