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Apr 20, 2012 2:27 PM

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Hakurin said:
I play LoL too , and i like to play premade with non flame mate x).
Well i play almost 3/4 of the champions,feel free to add me if you wanna have fun /o/.
My name is "ToT Solaris"


Edob0b said:
Ye, its pretty much the only game i been playin since like early 2010 i think :o
Usually only played ranked games currentely 1400 ELO and rising :)

Feel free to add me "Edob0b" im on EUW server


OddFellow said:
i play all the champs mostly what ever my team needs or if im first to pick ill pick what ever i want but best as AD 1 corki,2 sivir,3vay,4ashe also im a team captain of a small compeative gaming team we are looking for more players to join uswe mostly play LoL, Dota 2 for who ever has the beta,and good ol TF2 and if anyone has a team and wants to skirmish add my ign HeWhoSmokesBichs


Will add everyone tomorrow. Or you can add me "Noraan" on EUW if you want to do so now.
@OddFellow I only play for fun though, without a team ;).
Modified by Ashamanii, Apr 20, 2012 2:36 PM
kiltroutgore said:
"I am meme, hear me roar."
 
Apr 20, 2012 2:29 PM

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OddFellow has no account on EUW by the way, I added the others too, maybe we can play in premade sometimes.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 20, 2012 2:30 PM

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No LoL for today, aww, can't have my 2-game daily dose.
LUL
 
Apr 20, 2012 2:32 PM

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one-more-time said:
No LoL for today, aww, can't have my 2-game daily dose.

I had enough games for today. The last game I lost, I didn't deserve that lose D:. I hate people that pick WW/LeB then drag the game on to late game. Let's not forget that I got a 6+ in one of those Wins. T.T




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 20, 2012 2:37 PM

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Immahnoob said:
OddFellow has no account on EUW by the way, I added the others too, maybe we can play in premade sometimes.


Beats the purpose of adding him then :p.
kiltroutgore said:
"I am meme, hear me roar."
 
Apr 20, 2012 2:40 PM

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Ashamanii said:
Immahnoob said:
OddFellow has no account on EUW by the way, I added the others too, maybe we can play in premade sometimes.


Beats the purpose of adding him then :p.

I think he was making a bit of publicity for his "team".




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 20, 2012 2:54 PM

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Immahnoob said:

I hate people that pick WW/LeB then drag the game on to late game. Let's not forget that I got a 6+ in one of those Wins. T.T

Dunno, WW is damn beast in late, LB can one-shot people, but the problem that the LB players have is that they stop getting cs and rely only on kills, there the bad LB's fall off.

Even properly built Shaco is damn good in late-game.
Modified by one-more-time, Apr 20, 2012 2:59 PM
LUL
 
Apr 20, 2012 3:16 PM

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I hate people that use abbrevations in-game, and when you ask them what it means they either ignore you or flame you.

It just kills my sun :(.
kiltroutgore said:
"I am meme, hear me roar."
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:49 AM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:

I hate people that pick WW/LeB then drag the game on to late game. Let's not forget that I got a 6+ in one of those Wins. T.T

Dunno, WW is damn beast in late, LB can one-shot people, but the problem that the LB players have is that they stop getting cs and rely only on kills, there the bad LB's fall off.

Even properly built Shaco is damn good in late-game.

WW isn't a beast late game, he has no darn damage, and everybody by then has QSS. So his ultimate is quite useless. LeB will not 1 shot people because they have MR and she's single target too, imagine that the AD Carry has about 20% lfesteal and hits for 600 crits (on all that AR because of LW), he'll get bursted for half his HP max and then he'll just do his stuff again.

Shaco will never get to late game if he's not farmed or fed, actually he won't get there anyways, you either build him damage or you don't build him at all, because he won't do shit.

At least this is what I feel when for example I play AD vs those champions AKA I don't give a shit if they're in the enemy team, GG for me, easier to win. And I played each one of them, and mained each one of them.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:01 AM

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Immahnoob said:
one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:

I hate people that pick WW/LeB then drag the game on to late game. Let's not forget that I got a 6+ in one of those Wins. T.T

Dunno, WW is damn beast in late, LB can one-shot people, but the problem that the LB players have is that they stop getting cs and rely only on kills, there the bad LB's fall off.

Even properly built Shaco is damn good in late-game.

WW isn't a beast late game, he has no darn damage, and everybody by then has QSS. So his ultimate is quite useless. LeB will not 1 shot people because they have MR and she's single target too, imagine that the AD Carry has about 20% lfesteal and hits for 600 crits (on all that AR because of LW), he'll get bursted for half his HP max and then he'll just do his stuff again.

Shaco will never get to late game if he's not farmed or fed, actually he won't get there anyways, you either build him damage or you don't build him at all, because he won't do shit.

At least this is what I feel when for example I play AD vs those champions AKA I don't give a shit if they're in the enemy team, GG for me, easier to win. And I played each one of them, and mained each one of them.


Everything you said there i was about to say haha! I dont undersand the fuss about WW, people dont even know how to play him properly in my fail elo. They think WW is op... hes only got a good sustain in lane, if you have a good jungler and get a kill ahead of him should be easy sailing from then on. If your dumb enough to not get a QSS when ur playin against a fed or even a normal WW then quit the game now :D
 
Apr 21, 2012 8:01 AM

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Immahnoob said:
WW isn't a beast late game, he has no darn damage, and everybody by then has QSS. So his ultimate is quite useless.

I wouldn't say that that he lacks damage. Standart Frozen Heart/Wit's End build on WW makes him damn tanky and useful for team, plus he deals damage, the longer he's on the field - the more hits he can do. Enemy IAS decrease and ally IAS Increase, but that's only mid-game.
In late-game, to focus down 6 item WW you just have to use so much on him, every1 having QSS means that they are one item down, buying QSS only just because of WW is stupid, it can be interrupted by teammates.
Smart WW will always wait for a moment to use his ultimate, not blow it straight up so it does nothing. 6 item WW is tanky, has damage and is useful to team.


LeB will not 1 shot people because they have MR and she's single target too, imagine that the AD Carry has about 20% lfesteal and hits for 600 crits (on all that AR because of LW), he'll get bursted for half his HP max and then he'll just do his stuff again.

She can't 1shot bruisers and strong junglers. But AP, Support, AD - easy. MR gets countered by Void Staff, pretty much. If people will buy only MR against LB.. they'll lose because none will deal damage.

Even if she cannot 1 shot tanky people, she still can burst them down for 70%++ of their hp. End game 6 item LB is beast, DFG does 50%++ of your current hp as magic(so here helps Void Staff with the MR) and the Q+R+W/E just deals ridiculous damage, plus she silences you. But that is not how you play LB.
It does not matter how much lifesteal AD carry has, because LB 1shots them with Q+R+W, only thing what can save AD is having Banshee's and be lucky so none takes it off.

I'm playing mid lane 90% of the time, when it comes to ranked games. I've played LB a lot, especially on my smurf, got with her from 1700 to 1900. Mejais+Warmogs was build I was going for most of the time, but when it came to serious/close games - my 6 item LB could 1x1 anyone and in teamfights she was beast.

It just comes down how well you can farm with her and know how to act when game starts going in-to late game, or when you're starting to lose.


Shaco will never get to late game if he's not farmed or fed, actually he won't get there anyways, you either build him damage or you don't build him at all, because he won't do shit.

Shaco is my main 70~ games with 70% win ratio. And all my smurfs has 70+% win ratio with him as well.

"You either build him damage or you don't build him at all, because he won't do shit", and here I can't take seriously what you're saying, because this sentence shows that you don't know how Shaco works and how to build him properly.

Of course, most of the games will not go in-to late game, Shaco is good at preventing it with his ganks/counterjungling and splitpushing.

At least this is what I feel when for example I play AD vs those champions AKA I don't give a shit if they're in the enemy team, GG for me, easier to win.

Of course, because most of them don't understand how to ACTUALLY play the champion. But it changes when you meet really good Shaco/LB/WW players, or just simply player who plays the any champion at his most.

And I played each one of them, and mained each one of them.

But you have not understood how they actually work, judging by your statements.


Edob0b said:
I dont undersand the fuss about WW, people dont even know how to play him properly in my fail elo.

99% of low elo players don't fully understand how to play the champion at his best. Not even talking about the game mechanics and mind-games.
Modified by one-more-time, Apr 21, 2012 8:11 AM
LUL
 
Apr 21, 2012 9:24 AM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:
WW isn't a beast late game, he has no darn damage, and everybody by then has QSS. So his ultimate is quite useless.

I wouldn't say that that he lacks damage. Standart Frozen Heart/Wit's End build on WW makes him damn tanky and useful for team, plus he deals damage, the longer he's on the field - the more hits he can do. Enemy IAS decrease and ally IAS Increase, but that's only mid-game.
In late-game, to focus down 6 item WW you just have to use so much on him, every1 having QSS means that they are one item down, buying QSS only just because of WW is stupid, it can be interrupted by teammates.
Smart WW will always wait for a moment to use his ultimate, not blow it straight up so it does nothing. 6 item WW is tanky, has damage and is useful to team.


LeB will not 1 shot people because they have MR and she's single target too, imagine that the AD Carry has about 20% lfesteal and hits for 600 crits (on all that AR because of LW), he'll get bursted for half his HP max and then he'll just do his stuff again.

She can't 1shot bruisers and strong junglers. But AP, Support, AD - easy. MR gets countered by Void Staff, pretty much. If people will buy only MR against LB.. they'll lose because none will deal damage.

Even if she cannot 1 shot tanky people, she still can burst them down for 70%++ of their hp. End game 6 item LB is beast, DFG does 50%++ of your current hp as magic(so here helps Void Staff with the MR) and the Q+R+W/E just deals ridiculous damage, plus she silences you. But that is not how you play LB.
It does not matter how much lifesteal AD carry has, because LB 1shots them with Q+R+W, only thing what can save AD is having Banshee's and be lucky so none takes it off.

I'm playing mid lane 90% of the time, when it comes to ranked games. I've played LB a lot, especially on my smurf, got with her from 1700 to 1900. Mejais+Warmogs was build I was going for most of the time, but when it came to serious/close games - my 6 item LB could 1x1 anyone and in teamfights she was beast.

It just comes down how well you can farm with her and know how to act when game starts going in-to late game, or when you're starting to lose.


Shaco will never get to late game if he's not farmed or fed, actually he won't get there anyways, you either build him damage or you don't build him at all, because he won't do shit.

Shaco is my main 70~ games with 70% win ratio. And all my smurfs has 70+% win ratio with him as well.

"You either build him damage or you don't build him at all, because he won't do shit", and here I can't take seriously what you're saying, because this sentence shows that you don't know how Shaco works and how to build him properly.

Of course, most of the games will not go in-to late game, Shaco is good at preventing it with his ganks/counterjungling and splitpushing.

At least this is what I feel when for example I play AD vs those champions AKA I don't give a shit if they're in the enemy team, GG for me, easier to win.

Of course, because most of them don't understand how to ACTUALLY play the champion. But it changes when you meet really good Shaco/LB/WW players, or just simply player who plays the any champion at his most.

And I played each one of them, and mained each one of them.

But you have not understood how they actually work, judging by your statements.


Edob0b said:
I dont undersand the fuss about WW, people dont even know how to play him properly in my fail elo.

99% of low elo players don't fully understand how to play the champion at his best. Not even talking about the game mechanics and mind-games.

What game are you playing? That "How to 1 shot with LeBlanc" guide of yours you seem to forget to add that it's not a 1v1. So to do her entire combo and actually do enough damage to kill anybody she needs around 2-3 seconds. Let's say you have around 572 AP as LeB, you can do damage equal to about 2136 damage + 47.5% of current hp if you have DFG. You have Void Staff right? The carry has around 2.3k hp and 100 MR, you take 40 MR, that means he reduces around 35% of your damage, let's not add the passive of Banshees Veil. So it will be something like 1400 + 30% or so current hp.


It's not even near killing the carry, and this is with 572 AP bro and with the RQW combo, which is the safest (AKA you still need around 3-4 seconds to unleash it fully), that means you are FULL ITEMS at a 60 minute game and that you got fed/farmed, as it's impossible to farm much with LeBlanc.

6 Item WW is something like 2.5k hp with 250 MR and AR. So like 8500 effective hp, does around 1200 damage with ultimate + Wit's + Q + all AA's he can do in 5 seconds in a duration of 5 seconds IF he can stay near to the AD Carry that has 2600 hp and 100MR, if the AD Carry has a QSS or somebody forces WW off he does 900 damage in total. WW falls off late game HARD in all aspects, damage, utility BUT NOT TANKYNESS. He's hard to kill, ok, so what? Teamfights don't get over 10 seconds duration (all-in, not counting the poke).

I don't know who let's Shaco farm or even fall for your ganks at your ELO. But if you want to be an effective Shaco you need items with a price of 16.6k. Which you won't get from the jungle, as you can't farm it very well. Ganks.. Ganks are obvious. You won't get to kill anybody that knows all spots you can come from. You can do around 2.7k damage to a AD carry with 2200hp, 120 AR and 90 MR with all your abilities and 5 seconds of AA's, with the build that makes you tanky and gives you enough damage. That is if they actually let you AA them, same story here.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:01 AM

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Immahnoob said:
What game are you playing? That "How to 1 shot with LeBlanc" guide of yours you seem to forget to add that it's not a 1v1. So to do her entire combo and actually do enough damage to kill anybody she needs around 2-3 seconds. Let's say you have around 572 AP as LeB, you can do damage equal to about 2136 damage + 47.5% of current hp if you have DFG. You have Void Staff right? The carry has around 2.3k hp and 100 MR, you take 40 MR, that means he reduces around 35% of your damage, let's not add the passive of Banshees Veil. So it will be something like 1400 + 30% or so current hp.

End game 6 item LB has more than 700+ AP, can have even more if going for pure AP, 40% CDR, DFG is ~55%.
End game 6 item AD carry has ~2,5k hp and ~100 MR if built with MR/LvL runes+Banshees.

Let's do simple theory craft, taking in count that LB has 700 AP, enemy AD carry has 100 magic resist(which equals to 35% reduced magic damage if AP is running Void Staff +10% magic pen mastery) and 2,5k hp.

DFG does 1,25k dmg, but with 50MR it's 810~. Q does 640 pure, with 50MR it does 416. R does 900 pure, with 50MR it does 585 + triggers Q 300(195 with MR), then we land W, which deals 660 pure, 430 with 50MR and triggers R(q) passive(I'm not sure if it's stronger by 40%, but I assume it is). And I'm not counting E skill in, and 6% dmg increase when target is below 40% HP.

810+416+585+195+430+270 which is 2700~ damage total. That is 200 over the health AD carry has. Let's not forget that this is CDR+Spellvamp LB, not pure AP. 4 second Q, 15 second R.

It's not even near killing the carry, and this is with 572 AP bro and with the RQW combo, which is the safest (AKA you still need around 3-4 seconds to unleash it fully), that means you are FULL ITEMS at a 60 minute game and that you got fed/farmed, as it's impossible to farm much with LeBlanc.

6 item AP carry will never have so low AP. Smartcast DFG+Q+R+W takes ~2 seconds. You are mistaken here, it's very possible to farm with LB, you just don't understand how to do it, that's why you are signing her as a useless in late-game.

6 Item WW is something like 2.5k hp with 250 MR and AR. So like 8500 effective hp, does around 1200 damage with ultimate + Wit's + Q + all AA's he can do in 5 seconds in a duration of 5 seconds IF he can stay near to the AD Carry that has 2600 hp and 100MR, if the AD Carry has a QSS or somebody forces WW off he does 900 damage in total. WW falls off late game HARD in all aspects, damage, utility BUT NOT TANKYNESS. He's hard to kill, ok, so what? Teamfights don't get over 10 seconds duration (all-in, not counting the poke).

6 item WW, how I would build, but items vary depending vs who you are playing against.
3,1k hp. 260 armor. 160 MR. 240 AD plus Wit's End/Razor procs. 40CDR with blue pot. 1.7 IAS, his W gives 80% IAS to all allies.
His damage is nice. He brings good utility, which is 80% IAS, Frozen Heart, his E skill and Ult to catch some1 offguard.
As I mentioned before - good WW's will never blow ulti so it gets canceled immediately.

I don't know who let's Shaco farm or even fall for your ganks at your ELO. But if you want to be an effective Shaco you need items with a price of 16.6k. Which you won't get from the jungle, as you can't farm it very well. Ganks.. Ganks are obvious. You won't get to kill anybody that knows all spots you can come from. You can do around 2.7k damage to a AD carry with 2200hp, 120 AR and 90 MR with all your abilities and 5 seconds of AA's, with the build that makes you tanky and gives you enough damage. That is if they actually let you AA them, same story here.

You can't stop Shaco from splitpushing. You can't stop him from ganking, wards does not help against Shaco. And you are very mistaken by stating "You won't get to kill anybody that knows all spots you can come from.", that means that you have to play VERY scared, which is Shaco's main point in the game, his presence in the game scares the shit out of every1, which automatically gives your team advantage.
No, Shaco needs only 6,5k items, to be unkillable and useful in teamfights. This is only mid-game.
Shaco does not work like you are thinking, he's in game to give your team advantage by counterjungling, by his presence in lanes, and his ganks are deadly, it comes to how good your teammates can use advantage you've given to them, not by tunnelvisioning AD carry.
I'm not going to build a 6 item shaco in leaguecraft, because I have to see vs who am I playing, and if it's safe to play Shaco at all, because he will not work in any team setup nor against vs all enemy team setups, Shaco is tricky, that's why I love him, not many people understand how to play him well.
Modified by one-more-time, Apr 21, 2012 11:44 AM
LUL
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:45 AM

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My friend list seems to wiped O.o
kiltroutgore said:
"I am meme, hear me roar."
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:24 PM

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Ashamanii said:
My friend list seems to wiped O.o

They screwed a lot of things in this patch.

Chat service is having problems, that's why you don't see your Friends List.
LUL
 
Apr 21, 2012 1:31 PM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:
What game are you playing? That "How to 1 shot with LeBlanc" guide of yours you seem to forget to add that it's not a 1v1. So to do her entire combo and actually do enough damage to kill anybody she needs around 2-3 seconds. Let's say you have around 572 AP as LeB, you can do damage equal to about 2136 damage + 47.5% of current hp if you have DFG. You have Void Staff right? The carry has around 2.3k hp and 100 MR, you take 40 MR, that means he reduces around 35% of your damage, let's not add the passive of Banshees Veil. So it will be something like 1400 + 30% or so current hp.

End game 6 item LB has more than 700+ AP, can have even more if going for pure AP, 40% CDR, DFG is ~55%.
End game 6 item AD carry has ~2,5k hp and ~100 MR if built with MR/LvL runes+Banshees.

Let's do simple theory craft, taking in count that LB has 700 AP, enemy AD carry has 100 magic resist(which equals to 35% reduced magic damage if AP is running Void Staff +10% magic pen mastery) and 2,5k hp.

DFG does 1,25k dmg, but with 50MR it's 810~. Q does 640 pure, with 50MR it does 416. R does 900 pure, with 50MR it does 585 + triggers Q 300(195 with MR), then we land W, which deals 660 pure, 430 with 50MR and triggers R(q) passive(I'm not sure if it's stronger by 40%, but I assume it is). And I'm not counting E skill in, and 6% dmg increase when target is below 40% HP.

810+416+585+195+430+270 which is 2700~ damage total. That is 200 over the health AD carry has. Let's not forget that this is CDR+Spellvamp LB, not pure AP. 4 second Q, 15 second R.

It's not even near killing the carry, and this is with 572 AP bro and with the RQW combo, which is the safest (AKA you still need around 3-4 seconds to unleash it fully), that means you are FULL ITEMS at a 60 minute game and that you got fed/farmed, as it's impossible to farm much with LeBlanc.

6 item AP carry will never have so low AP. Smartcast DFG+Q+R+W takes ~2 seconds. You are mistaken here, it's very possible to farm with LB, you just don't understand how to do it, that's why you are signing her as a useless in late-game.

6 Item WW is something like 2.5k hp with 250 MR and AR. So like 8500 effective hp, does around 1200 damage with ultimate + Wit's + Q + all AA's he can do in 5 seconds in a duration of 5 seconds IF he can stay near to the AD Carry that has 2600 hp and 100MR, if the AD Carry has a QSS or somebody forces WW off he does 900 damage in total. WW falls off late game HARD in all aspects, damage, utility BUT NOT TANKYNESS. He's hard to kill, ok, so what? Teamfights don't get over 10 seconds duration (all-in, not counting the poke).

6 item WW, how I would build, but items vary depending vs who you are playing against.
3,1k hp. 260 armor. 160 MR. 240 AD plus Wit's End/Razor procs. 40CDR with blue pot. 1.7 IAS, his W gives 80% IAS to all allies.
His damage is nice. He brings good utility, which is 80% IAS, Frozen Heart, his E skill and Ult to catch some1 offguard.
As I mentioned before - good WW's will never blow ulti so it gets canceled immediately.

I don't know who let's Shaco farm or even fall for your ganks at your ELO. But if you want to be an effective Shaco you need items with a price of 16.6k. Which you won't get from the jungle, as you can't farm it very well. Ganks.. Ganks are obvious. You won't get to kill anybody that knows all spots you can come from. You can do around 2.7k damage to a AD carry with 2200hp, 120 AR and 90 MR with all your abilities and 5 seconds of AA's, with the build that makes you tanky and gives you enough damage. That is if they actually let you AA them, same story here.

You can't stop Shaco from splitpushing. You can't stop him from ganking, wards does not help against Shaco. And you are very mistaken by stating "You won't get to kill anybody that knows all spots you can come from.", that means that you have to play VERY scared, which is Shaco's main point in the game, his presence in the game scares the shit out of every1, which automatically gives your team advantage.
No, Shaco needs only 6,5k items, to be unkillable and useful in teamfights. This is only mid-game.
Shaco does not work like you are thinking, he's in game to give your team advantage by counterjungling, by his presence in lanes, and his ganks are deadly, it comes to how good your teammates can use advantage you've given to them, not by tunnelvisioning AD carry.
I'm not going to build a 6 item shaco in leaguecraft, because I have to see vs who am I playing, and if it's safe to play Shaco at all, because he will not work in any team setup nor against vs all enemy team setups, Shaco is tricky, that's why I love him, not many people understand how to play him well.

If we're talking about the magical working Glasscannon AP carry then yeah, I can get to over 700 AP, just stack Archangels. I should have added I've put a DEFENSIVE ITEM there, we're not talking about 1v1's we're talking about 5v5's. She has SINGLE TARGET BURST that relies on a COMBO to be effective and has HIGH COOLDOWNS. Show me how you magically get to a carry with DFG + RQW without instantly dying EVEN with a defensive item. I never knew positioning was that bad at your ELO bro.

Build WW with Atmas and you'll even have a harder time, he relies on sustained damage, so he must build tanky, otherwise he dies faster than he already does.

So you finally understand that Shaco does fall off late game, all your explanation talks about early-mid. Well it's okay if you agree with me.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:02 PM

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Not sure how you can say WW is UP.

LB is early-mid, she's known to fall off after that since she's heavily combo-reliant so BV can mess her up and tanky builds can virtually ignore her with HP/MR. But against certain comps she can dominate from her burst.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:23 PM

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Fui said:
Not sure how you can say WW is UP.

LB is early-mid, she's known to fall off after that since she's heavily combo-reliant so BV can mess her up and tanky builds can virtually ignore her with HP/MR. But against certain comps she can dominate from her burst.

Never said he is UP. I said he falls off late game, that's another story.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:31 PM

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Not sure why people think WW is some unstoppable killing machine, pretty average late game as far as bruisers go.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:42 PM

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Clous said:
Not sure why people think WW is some unstoppable killing machine, pretty average late game as far as bruisers go.

Pretty much this.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:46 PM

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Clous said:
Not sure why people think WW is some unstoppable killing machine, pretty average late game as far as bruisers go.
True story.

I play LoL as well, by the way. My home is in East Europe.
I play all heroes, but it seems I'm a pro not playing in a mainstream way the characters. The best results are when I play supports (Sona and Janna) as AP carries. Despite that, I'm still a bellow average player. I'm gathering money for Lux atm.
I have the same nick, so add me if you feel like playing with a feeder ;D
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:51 PM

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koleare said:
Clous said:
Not sure why people think WW is some unstoppable killing machine, pretty average late game as far as bruisers go.
True story.

I play LoL as well, by the way. My home is in East Europe.
I play all heroes, but it seems I'm a pro not playing in a mainstream way the characters. The best results are when I play supports (Sona and Janna) as AP carries. Despite that, I'm still a bellow average player. I'm gathering money for Lux atm.
I have the same nick, so add me if you feel like playing with a feeder ;D

MEH, always EUNE, never EUW. -_-




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:54 PM

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Immahnoob said:
If we're talking about the magical working Glasscannon AP carry then yeah, I can get to over 700 AP, just stack Archangels.

Starcking AA's is stupid, simply as that. But it's fun to have 1,2k+ AP AP champ. AP's, AD's, Supports.. they ARE glasscannons. Tho supports are just... glass without the "cannon".

I should have added I've put a DEFENSIVE ITEM there, we're not talking about 1v1's we're talking about 5v5's.

LB needs no defensive Items, due to her W and taking in count that you have understanding what positiong is, yet I have Zhonyas just in case, and WotA to heal up.
Item composition varies depending on what enemy champions you are facing. LB will not work vs anyone, just like all champions - they have their weaknesses.

I was just showing flaw in your calculations. If you want to theorycraft - do it properly. Personally I need no calculations to understand that LB can 1shot AP, AD, Support.

She works in late game, if played correctly, but not anyone can do it, just like with Shaco.

She has SINGLE TARGET BURST that relies on a COMBO to be effective and has HIGH COOLDOWNS. Show me how you magically get to a carry with DFG + RQW without instantly dying EVEN with a defensive item.

Hmm, yes, so what? Her burst can take anyone down to 20% HP, where your team follows up, and cooldowns are not that big, 15 seconds for ultimate.

I never tunnelvision for AD carry, I set up my priorities depending of situation. E + Q deals nice damage plus it snares and silences, cooldowns are not that huge. If someone is offguard or just there is a chance to kill someone - I will use my DFG+Q+R+W to kill, then fight is 4x5, blowing all my skills does not hurt LB that much, all her skills has very low cooldown when CDR is maxed, which in this build are just blue pot is needed.

I never knew positioning was that bad at your ELO bro.

Target prioritizing is situational, it's not that hard to catch offguard or just bait someone out of position. Even in 2400+ elo positioning is never perfect, everyone does mistakes, even high elo players.

Build WW with Atmas and you'll even have a harder time, he relies on sustained damage, so he must build tanky, otherwise he dies faster than he already does.

That build is with sustained damage, you can't run away from Frozen Mallet, unless you have Flash. And he's tanky enough. Aaaand he brings great utility.

So you finally understand that Shaco does fall off late game, all your explanation talks about early-mid. Well it's okay if you agree with me.

No, I just said that his early-mid game is damn strong, his late-game is dependent vs whom you are facing and there we can start considering what kind of items you'll need. Building full damage Shaco is for 1400's, it will fail for the most of the time in high elo. Every champ has their weaknesses, Shaco's weakness is unskilled players who cannot play him properly.

In late game every champion can fall off, but it depends vs whom you are facing. Picking and playing Shaco is tricky, that's all I'm saying.

p.s. if you're going to quote whole post - please use [ spoiler ] tags.

Fui said:
Not sure how you can say WW is UP.

None is saying that, I'm just arguing that his late game is not that bad as Immahnoob is stating.

LB is early-mid, she's known to fall off after that since she's heavily combo-reliant so BV can mess her up and tanky builds can virtually ignore her with HP/MR. But against certain comps she can dominate from her burst.

Any AP champ is dependent on how well they can execute their skills, not only LB. The thing about LB is that she has VERY low ultimate cooldown, which deals MASSIVE damage, her E skills has sweet snare+slow. The reason why she falls off is not that she's reliant on executing her skills(which is not hard) but because people stop getting cs and rely only on kills, farming can be tough but it's doable.
Modified by one-more-time, Apr 21, 2012 2:59 PM
LUL
 
Apr 21, 2012 3:12 PM

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Man, this last comment pretty much tells me you're thinking with your goddamn ass. IF anybody sees you W to hit the goddamn freakin' sigil you'll get CC'ed and instabursted down. NO, she CANNOT kill a carry instantly and NO she CANNOT get to 700 AP. Your single game in Ranked with LeBlanc is a goddamn 1 11 2. I've won Heimerdinger On-Hit in Normals too bro. Her combo takes time to do, it's low range, it's A COMBO (BV kills it), relies on STUPIDITY. Don't tunnelvision for me (the ad carry) they said, please stop hitting on my goddamn nexus they said. You don't need to calculate anything because you're goddamn worse than me, at least I'm trying to put something more reliable than only my words, like CALCULATIONS.

You can't get to the carry in the first place, even with your Frozen Mallet, say hi to my freakin' support, she's called Janna/Taric/Alist, will be fun kiting you to death in that 2v1 you're trying to take on.

NO, again, WRONG. Tell me how much will you stay on lane after you got destroyed by the enemy Mordekaiser as LeBlanc to farm the freakin' lane after he zoned/made you farm at the turret and now he's having fun with your ad carries ghost. You know, my weakness is TROLLS IN SOLO Q, it's an example that would work with your logic. Because your logic = flawless /sarcasm.

I won't talk about Shaco anymore, it's hopeless, you're beyond salvation, he's one of the worse farmers, you don't get fed it's over, yeah of course team comp is important, if they have Urgot as their sole AD Carry then be happy you won late because AD > any role late.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 21, 2012 3:47 PM

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Immahnoob said:
Man, this last comment pretty much tells me you're thinking with your goddamn ass. IF anybody sees you W to hit the goddamn freakin' sigil you'll get CC'ed and instabursted down.

No I dont, lol.

Why would you even consider such dumb idea to W in-to place where you can get bursted? I'm experienced AP champ/LoL player, I know when I can and when I cannot do something.

NO, she CANNOT kill a carry instantly

I proved that with my calculations, which are perfectly accurate. She'd deal even more damage, taking in count that I didn't add the 1.5% and 6%(<40%HP) damage increase.

and NO she CANNOT get to 700 AP.

Oh yes she can. 6 item LB will never have <600 ap. Any 6 item AP carry will never have <600 AP. Just shows how inexperienced you are with AP champions, which are my mains.

Your single game in Ranked with LeBlanc is a goddamn 1 11 2.

Oh, you mean my AD LB. You can judge by that if you want, but that would make you seem quite stupid. As I mentioned - I have 1900 and 1800 smurfs. I don't play LB on my main, just like lots of other champs, but I tried them on smurfs, I've faced late-game LB's on my main as well. So I know what I'm talking about.

There is no need for me to play a champ 100+ games to understand what it's capable of.

I've won Heimerdinger On-Hit in Normals too bro.

AD soraka, AP GP, and lot's of other "troll" builds. Aand my AD LB, tho I lost that.

Her combo takes time to do, it's low range, it's A COMBO (BV kills it), relies on STUPIDITY.

It takes roughly 2 seconds to cast all spells, if using smartcast. Using skills on BV'd champion is stupid.. why would I use on them my combo.

At least I'm trying to put something more reliable than only my words, like CALCULATIONS.

*Flawed calculation. 6 item LB with <600 AP is not reliable. Lacking knowledge of certain champions and signing them as "useless" in late-game.

*My 7 year DotA experience, playing LoL since Beta, maining AP's, having smurf with higher elo than your main.

I wonder who I'd trust more.

You can't get to the carry in the first place, even with your Frozen Mallet, say hi to my freakin' support, she's called Janna/Taric/Alist, will be fun kiting you to death in that 2v1 you're trying to take on.

Can you stop with this "KILL AD" tunnelvision? All target priorities are situational. And even if so, my team is fighting 4x3 while I'm zoning AD and Support.

NO, again, WRONG. Tell me how much will you stay on lane after you got destroyed by the enemy Mordekaiser as LeBlanc to farm the freakin' lane after he zoned/made you farm at the turret and now he's having fun with your ad carries ghost.

Why would I even pick LB before their AP carry? If you didn't read what I wrote in my previous post(s) - Shaco and ESPECIALLY LB picks are situational, you cannot pick LB without knowing who you are laning against or not knowing their team comp.

I won't talk about Shaco anymore, it's hopeless, you're beyond salvation, he's one of the worse farmers, you don't get fed it's over, yeah of course team comp is important, if they have Urgot as their sole AD Carry then be happy you won late because AD > any role late.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over my 70% Shaco win ratio on 1,9k+ elo. No but seriously, why are you even trying to argue with me about the champion I have the most games played?
LUL
 
Apr 21, 2012 4:06 PM

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You didn't prove anything, you build her glasscannon and surprisingly people at 1800 don't focus you, interesting. The AD is the most important late game remember? We're talking about late game. Two seconds is enough to get silenced/stunned/rooted/w/e you want and you're dead with your build.

Yeah, don't W then you don't proc the sigil, then you don't do damage to get the carry to half hp.

I have 71% Win Ratio with Tryndamere, says nothing tbh. I've played DotA for about... Hmmmm 5 years. What LeB did you face? Those 1200 ELO with your uber glass cannon Cassiopeia?

Flawed calculations? Dafuq? You're NOT BUILDING ANYTHING EXCEPT AP. You're NOT taking in consideration ANYTHING ELSE than your target. Experience? No, you're talking about impossible situations where people are like letting you do whatever you want in teamfights.

Yes, good job on zoning me, it will work for around 3 seconds or so then you're dead and I'll have a lot more fun with your allies. Will you stop tunnelvisioning everything I say? It's like I'm talking about troll picks to tell you that you're playing LeBlanc vs total retards by telling you that your FULL AP NO DEF LEBLANC is as much of a troll build as ON-HIT HEIMER. Can you think out of the box?

Well good job on your ELO brother, I think you're the single person that would say Shaco/LeB/WW are BEAST LATE GAME and the other bronze ELO. *facepalm*




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 21, 2012 4:32 PM

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Immahnoob said:
You didn't prove anything, you build her glasscannon and surprisingly people at 1800 don't focus you, interesting. The AD is the most important late game remember? We're talking about late game. Two seconds is enough to get silenced/stunned/rooted/w/e you want and you're dead with your build.

You really have no understanding of what AP carry is... I can say the same "Omg, you're building AD carry as glasscannon!!!!" See how stupid it looks?
How can you focus down someone who's keeping their position as it's needed, will you chase through the rest of the team while LB can get away with her W skill?

Any AP champ is dead if he's out of position. In my build there is Zhonyas, if you missed that and WotA to get my health back, in case I've been poked.


Yeah, don't W then you don't proc the sigil, then you don't do damage to get the carry to half hp.

It can be done with E skill as well. Please, stop with your "AD carry tunnelvision", all targets ar situational, I'm repeating my self for the 500th time.

I have 71% Win Ratio with Tryndamere, says nothing tbh.

I've got 50 games on my main, and prolly 50+ more in my smurfs, and that is just Ranked games in S2.
What LeB did you face? Those 1200 ELO with your uber glass cannon Cassiopeia?

Well, can't say that any 1,9k+ elo LB is bad. I've seen and I've played my self her in late, when every1 has items and one teamfight decides the winner.

Have you seen Reginald playing her? Don't think so.

Flawed calculations? Dafuq? You're NOT BUILDING ANYTHING EXCEPT AP. You're NOT taking in consideration ANYTHING ELSE than your target.

AP doesn't need anything else. Seriously.. I even took Zhonyas + WotA, are you ignoring them?
And again - "You're building ONLY ad on your AD champ!!!" See, again, how stupid it looks?

Like in every post I mentioned that EVERY team fight and EVERY target can be different dependant on the situation, just like the Item builds, etc.

No, you're talking about impossible situations where people are like letting you do whatever you want in teamfights.

You're the one giving me the situations or actions I'd never do, like: Picking LB before their AP carry, using my W skill to jump in-to 5 people just to proc Q skill.

Yes, good job on zoning me, it will work for around 3 seconds or so then you're dead and I'll have a lot more fun with your allies.

3 seconds to kill 6 item ww with 270 armor and 3,1k HP? I don't think so.

Will you stop tunnelvisioning everything I say? It's like I'm talking about troll picks to tell you that you're playing LeBlanc vs total retards by telling you that your FULL AP NO DEF LEBLANC is as much of a troll build as ON-HIT HEIMER.

Sorry, I didn't understand this.

Can you think out of the box?

I've got 2x less games than you do and am higher elo, my smurf has 4x less games and is higher elo than your main. Obviously, yes I can think out of the box.

Well good job on your ELO brother, I think you're the single person that would say Shaco/LeB/WW are BEAST LATE GAME and the other bronze ELO. *facepalm*

You remind me one of those 1200's, when you say that they're wrong, even explain why and what - they're like "*plugs ears*BLAH-BLAh-BLAH, I can't hear you noob."
Or just simply one of the "LOL I TROLL", when your flawed statements have been proven to be wrong.

I'm not here to show that I'm better than you or anyone else, I'm just trying to show that you're wrong on some things. You should sometimes listen in what experienced people have to say. Not rage and try to insult them.
LUL
 
Apr 21, 2012 6:52 PM

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I've only played the tutorial, lol. It's not really my thing... it seems like the kind of game that would get AWFULLY repetitive to me, but perhaps I'd think otherwise if I played it seriously. Meh.
 
Apr 22, 2012 2:27 AM

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@one-more-time

Ok, then let me make a comparison, let's say late game you're LeBlanc with your team vs their team that has Karthus too. Who will do overall more damage both dead and alive? All Karthus's skills are AoE, he has an AoE slow too, so better utility than LeBlanc, he won't die to LeBlanc because of his incredible Q range, so he can farm safely, so let's say both of you have the same farm, both 6 items.

Who will win a teamfight? You that instaburst that Taric (you said you don't tunnelvision for the AD, ok let's say hes positioned very well), or Karthus that will do overall better damage and AOE?

By the way, I checked your build, you can get a max of 600 AP. So stop lying about 700 AP. I can get to 130 MR with blue per level, mercs and BV, there you go, now you can't kill me anymore... I thought of still keeping Zerkers, but it seems reasoning with you is quite impossible. Plus you build her wrong, WotA is bad on her, you won't get to use it at all, except for the poke, even so, if you get CC'ed your low HP at lvl 18 won't help you survive to use the spellvamp or use Zhonyas, and even if you do use Zhonyas your W will still be on CD, didn't you say you'll use it to do your combo? Well GG.

What can Shaco do late game? You didn't explain that. So you didn't argument it at all.

You kill him in 5 seconds max, usual AD Carries do 800 per crit late game, he will have LW so your resistances will hinder his damage for 60%. So around 360 or so per hit, 1.7 usual attack speed of the carry, 5 seconds max. Not including the AD carries skills, VAYNE FOR EXAMPLE BRO.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 6:15 AM

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Immahnoob said:
Ok, then let me make a comparison, let's say late game you're LeBlanc with your team vs their team that has Karthus too. Who will do overall more damage both dead and alive? All Karthus's skills are AoE, he has an AoE slow too, so better utility than LeBlanc, he won't die to LeBlanc because of his incredible Q range, so he can farm safely, so let's say both of you have the same farm, both 6 items. Who will win a teamfight?

It depends on how and where the teamfight goes. It can go either way.
But if both teams fight "face to face" then karthus team will win, just because his E still deals damage while he's dead and he will use his ultimate.
But that is not how teamfight will go against Karthus.

You that instaburst that Taric (you said you don't tunnelvision for the AD, ok let's say hes positioned very well), or Karthus that will do overall better damage and AOE?

No, I said that target prioritization can and is different in any teamfight, it depends on how and where the fight is happening and who are your teammates, vs whom you are facing.

There's lots and lots of factors to take in count.

By the way, I checked your build, you can get a max of 600 AP. So stop lying about 700 AP.

Huh, with that build she has 689,8(690) ap, that is without blue pot. Buy blue pot and you have 700+ap and 40% CDR. Check it again.

I can get to 130 MR with blue per level, mercs and BV, there you go, now you can't kill me anymore...

Those 25 MR still won't help you. Merc boots are situational, it'd be stupid to pick them just vs LB.

Plus you build her wrong, WotA is bad on her, you won't get to use it at all, except for the poke, even so, if you get CC'ed your low HP at lvl 18 won't help you survive to use the spellvamp or use Zhonyas, and even if you do use Zhonyas your W will still be on CD, didn't you say you'll use it to do your combo? Well GG.

This was just "radom" build, not going for usual AP build and still having higher than 700 AP. You build items depending on vs whom you are facing. And no, WotA is not bad, especially in late game.
I'm not sure how you imagine me or some1 else good with her playing LB.. but I can tell - you're doing it wrong, very wrong, but that's just because you don't know how she is played correctly, or AP champions in general, well.. maybe a vague understanding.. but really, it's funny to see how AD players try to argue with top lane/AP carry/jungler, or what's even more funnier - they try to play AP champs.. and miserably fail. Keep playing your mouse2 champs.

What can Shaco do late game? You didn't explain that. So you didn't argument it at all.

Shaco gets gold from splitpushing. His drake control is great. His counterjungling is great.

What can he do in late? He can still splitpush, he can participate teamfights, his E passive is pretty strong vs autoattackers, box has fear and he has a clone.. I don't see what else I have to add here.

Shaco can work and can fall off, just like any other champion. Every game is different. Every game someone can make shitload of mistakes, etc.
But if it comes to late Shaco can still splitpush, which is hard to stop. And Shaco will not work vs any jungler, he can be counterpicked really hard.

You kill him in 5 seconds max, usual AD Carries do 800 per crit late game, he will have LW so your resistances will hinder his damage for 60%. So around 360 or so per hit, 1.7 usual attack speed of the carry, 5 seconds max. Not including the AD carries skills, VAYNE FOR EXAMPLE BRO.

That's why you don't tunnelvision for AD carries without anyone helping you. I know that, that's why I would not even try to chase her down, in most of the cases, but it can change depending on the situation. But it's you who're giving me the "tunnelvision", "chasing through 5 people" examples, that is not how teamfight is played and you should understand it.

Items, skill-leveling, actions depending on position you're in(ahead in lead or behind), like everything can and does change every game.

You don't pick LB before their AP carry, LB is situational pick. You don't build her as I did every game, which was just example that you will never have <600AP as 6 item AP carry even with two utility/defensive items. You don't jump in with LB in to get stunned/silenced/feared/taunted/snared/suppressed and die. You don't tunnelvision for AD carry through entire enemy team.

Every teamfight can go well or can be just complete disaster, just like every game. That is all I have to say.
You can theorycraft as much as you want, but when it comes to actual play it's completely different.

Anyways, I'm not going to bother answering to your "AP carry" arguments, just simply because you have no understanding of how they ACTUALLY work, not even talking about how Shaco works.

Doubt that I will answer any other of your straw mans. All you do is misrepresent EVERYTHING, give me examples which flatters you but are impossible in the actual game, if you're thinking that 6 item AP carry will have <600 ap.. then I even doubt that you have been in a situation where both teams are equal and has 6 items on their carries.


If you feel the need to keep last word - feel free to do it.
Good day, dear sir.
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 6:28 AM

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It's hopeless, you still don't understand that being a situational pick doesn't make you better late game than any other champion that fit the same role. You have this retarded opinion of yours yet you know that it's a FACT that Shaco and LeB fall off late game, do whatever you want. You won't listen to the voice of reason.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 7:19 AM

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Immahnoob said:
It's hopeless, you still don't understand that being a situational pick doesn't make you better late game than any other champion that fit the same role. You have this retarded opinion of yours yet you know that it's a FACT that Shaco and LeB fall off late game, do whatever you want. You won't listen to the voice of reason.

http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=12403 , Reginald explains it. And he wrote like everything I did in all my previous posts.

It's sad to see that you ask for help on LoL forums, 1200's don't understand a shit and can't play her.
Modified by one-more-time, Apr 22, 2012 7:32 AM
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 7:33 AM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:
It's hopeless, you still don't understand that being a situational pick doesn't make you better late game than any other champion that fit the same role. You have this retarded opinion of yours yet you know that it's a FACT that Shaco and LeB fall off late game, do whatever you want. You won't listen to the voice of reason.

http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=12403 , Reginald explains it. And he wrote like everything I did in all my previous posts.

It's sad to see that you ask for help on LoL forums, 1200's don't understand a shit and can't play her.

Because I wanted to see if they say the same like me, I can say I'm wrong too you know. Actually, if you noticed all those 1200 actually said LeB is good late.

Learn to read.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 7:38 AM

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Immahnoob said:

Because I wanted to see if they say the same like me, I can say I'm wrong too you know. Actually, if you noticed all those 1200 actually said LeB is good late.

Learn to read.

I mostly never read what people without gold/platinum badge write, I don't care either they agree or disagree with me. But I lold at the
I think you've already lost the argument if you had to come here for help


Read the Reginalds guide, please. Sadly I didn't think of the Reginalds guide before we started to argue, that would save few posts.
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 7:44 AM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:

Because I wanted to see if they say the same like me, I can say I'm wrong too you know. Actually, if you noticed all those 1200 actually said LeB is good late.

Learn to read.

I mostly never read what people without gold/platinum badge write, I don't care either they agree or disagree with me. But I lold at the
I think you've already lost the argument if you had to come here for help


Read the Reginalds guide, please. Sadly I didn't think of the Reginalds guide before we started to argue, that would save few posts.

I've read it, what should I see? I can use "one shoting" casually too. No, she is NOT good late game and YES there are better picks. I'd better have a Cassiopeia/Karthus.

I don't care of what you Platinum badges say either, I think you payed your account lololol.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 8:03 AM

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Immahnoob said:
I've read it, what should I see? I can use "one shoting" casually too. No, she is NOT good late game and YES there are better picks. I'd better have a Cassiopeia/Karthus.

I don't care of what you Platinum badges say either, I think you payed your account lololol.

He pretty much explained how LB works.

Only stage she falls off is getting out of tough early game, because she is one of, if not the, hardest champion to farm with.

All players have their "comfort zone", mastering 30 AP champions is like impossible.. I cannot play Xerath, but he is goddamn beast. Ofcourse, there can ALWAYS be better choices, but it comes down to how well the champion is played and how good understanding of how to play teamfights properly, but the game does not end only with teamfights, you have to understand that.

Let's not forget that LB have not been nerfed for LONG, LONG time, while every other champion is getting nerfed.
And there was a guy in Season1(forgot the nickname), he picked up LB, when none played her, and he got to Rank1 with her. Since then.. no nerfs on her. Not many play her on high elo, because she is VERY, VERY hard to play in SOLOQ, but she definitely does not fall off if played as you should.

If you want to argue with someone - make sure you know at least the basics of the argued subject, else you're just making yourself to look stupid. Seeking for help in forum, where the majority is unraked people vs actually looking up approved guides or what Professional players say about the champ. You do understand that you're mouse2 champion player arguing vs AP player, who is much more experience than you are, but oh well, I'm kind of sick of your "Na-a, I can't hear you, I don't care what #1 LB player has to say about her, I don't care for your arguments, instead I'll stick to my bias and flawed thinking".
Modified by one-more-time, Apr 22, 2012 8:14 AM
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 9:01 AM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:
I've read it, what should I see? I can use "one shoting" casually too. No, she is NOT good late game and YES there are better picks. I'd better have a Cassiopeia/Karthus.

I don't care of what you Platinum badges say either, I think you payed your account lololol.

He pretty much explained how LB works.

Only stage she falls off is getting out of tough early game, because she is one of, if not the, hardest champion to farm with.

All players have their "comfort zone", mastering 30 AP champions is like impossible.. I cannot play Xerath, but he is goddamn beast. Ofcourse, there can ALWAYS be better choices, but it comes down to how well the champion is played and how good understanding of how to play teamfights properly, but the game does not end only with teamfights, you have to understand that.

Let's not forget that LB have not been nerfed for LONG, LONG time, while every other champion is getting nerfed.
And there was a guy in Season1(forgot the nickname), he picked up LB, when none played her, and he got to Rank1 with her. Since then.. no nerfs on her. Not many play her on high elo, because she is VERY, VERY hard to play in SOLOQ, but she definitely does not fall off if played as you should.

If you want to argue with someone - make sure you know at least the basics of the argued subject, else you're just making yourself to look stupid. Seeking for help in forum, where the majority is unraked people vs actually looking up approved guides or what Professional players say about the champ. You do understand that you're mouse2 champion player arguing vs AP player, who is much more experience than you are, but oh well, I'm kind of sick of your "Na-a, I can't hear you, I don't care what #1 LB player has to say about her, I don't care for your arguments, instead I'll stick to my bias and flawed thinking".

What is to master? Come on, explain. I can throw baseless statements like that too, those work best on the forums. I don't know, wasn't Reginald a beast Akali or something? Don't worry I'll get to 2.4k ELO too, then I'll stream and people will listen to me. I'll be like "OMG EVE SO OP". I suppose half the population of LoL will start calling Eve FOTM.

Like if you know something about AP Champs, Viktor will surely become FOTM after Ahri nerfs (if any), I've played AP champs too, I mained each freakin role for gods sake, I know everything about every champion, every trick, every build. In the end fights declare everything, somebody MUST die for you to win. So I don't understand that statement of yours.

You're the one calling me inexperienced with Mid laners, bringing in biased statements. We were talking about late game and I was saying you need to focus THAT AD because the AD will always be the strongest in late game. Actually she's the best Solo Q AP Champ around, what are you talking about?




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 9:50 AM

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Interesting debate between you two. While it's a known fact that Shaco and LB fall off late game the problem is for the enemy team to get to late game against these champs ( In solo queue this can be very hard). Late game is not just after a certain amount of time into the game as many people seem to think, it depends on the amount of farm everyone has and what everyone is doing. Anyway about that positioning argument in my current games at 2.3k Elo people still cant position at all so in solo queue she can still dominate. On to that argument about banshee making LB useless, she can still focus someone completely different or just poke the veil down with her e or ask an ally to do it. Also if an AD has to rush banshee's they will do significantly less damage ( imagine having infinity edge and banshee compared to inf edge and pd ).
 
Apr 22, 2012 9:55 AM

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Immahnoob said:
What is to master? Come on, explain. I can throw baseless statements like that too, those work best on the forums. I don't know, wasn't Reginald a beast Akali or something? Don't worry I'll get to 2.4k ELO too, then I'll stream and people will listen to me. I'll be like "OMG EVE SO OP". I suppose half the population of LoL will start calling Eve FOTM.

There is saying "Jack of all trades, master of none."

No, Reginald is TSM's AP player. For Beast Akali is known Westrice.

But to take you seriously you'd have to actually prove it that the champion works.

As I mentioned - there was a guy on NA server, who picked up LB and got with her to Rank1, and there was no nerfs after that. Reginald is playing LB as well, not only in SoloQ but in tournaments as well.

Viktor will surely become FOTM after Ahri nerfs (if any)

Viktor is weak because it's almost impossible to kill anyone without his ultimate. But if his ultmate is up - he's definitely a threat. Tho I'd choose cyan augment on him for the most of the time.

I've played AP champs too, I mained each freakin role for gods sake

18:14 Kassadin.. and then next ap champ comes with 8:4 vlad.. not what I'd call "maining"

I know everything about every champion, every trick, every build.

Stating something like that is pretty silly. You know everything about the game yet you are 1800 guy with 800 games. AND you seek for help in LoL forums..

In the end fights declare everything, somebody MUST die for you to win. So I don't understand that statement of yours.

No they don't decide everything.

There's more aspects in the game which can decide the winning team.

You're the one calling me inexperienced with Mid laners

Well, because you are, you have 18:14 kassadin and then next AP champ is 8:4 Vlad, which is probably top lane. Then you are signing off LB as useles in late, while basing your opinion on low elo scrubs who simply cannot play her.

bringing in biased statements

Like? An example please.
We were talking about late game and I was saying you need to focus THAT AD because the AD will always be the strongest in late game.

Reginald said:


And no, AD carry always will not be the strongest champion in late-game. Let's take for example Veigar, Kassadin, Karthus, LB, Malzahar, Poppy, Tryndamere.

Actually she's the best Solo Q AP Champ around, what are you talking about?

On low elo yes, but not in high. She needs well coordinated team to work well.

Not many people pick up LB, simply because she is tricky and hard to play, her early-game is hard because she's having trouble with farming.
Don't judge LB simply because 1400's cannot keep the farm up with the rest champions. She's a great champion, very, very strong late-game. Easy to 1shot AP or AD carry.
Modified by one-more-time, Apr 22, 2012 10:09 AM
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 10:50 AM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:
What is to master? Come on, explain. I can throw baseless statements like that too, those work best on the forums. I don't know, wasn't Reginald a beast Akali or something? Don't worry I'll get to 2.4k ELO too, then I'll stream and people will listen to me. I'll be like "OMG EVE SO OP". I suppose half the population of LoL will start calling Eve FOTM.

There is saying "Jack of all trades, master of none."

No, Reginald is TSM's AP player. For Beast Akali is known Westrice.

But to take you seriously you'd have to actually prove it that the champion works.

As I mentioned - there was a guy on NA server, who picked up LB and got with her to Rank1, and there was no nerfs after that. Reginald is playing LB as well, not only in SoloQ but in tournaments as well.

Viktor will surely become FOTM after Ahri nerfs (if any)

Viktor is weak because it's almost impossible to kill anyone without his ultimate. But if his ultmate is up - he's definitely a threat. Tho I'd choose cyan augment on him for the most of the time.

I've played AP champs too, I mained each freakin role for gods sake

18:14 Kassadin.. and then next ap champ comes with 8:4 vlad.. not what I'd call "maining"

I know everything about every champion, every trick, every build.

Stating something like that is pretty silly. You know everything about the game yet you are 1800 guy with 800 games. AND you seek for help in LoL forums..

In the end fights declare everything, somebody MUST die for you to win. So I don't understand that statement of yours.

No they don't decide everything.

There's more aspects in the game which can decide the winning team.

You're the one calling me inexperienced with Mid laners

Well, because you are, you have 18:14 kassadin and then next AP champ is 8:4 Vlad, which is probably top lane. Then you are signing off LB as useles in late, while basing your opinion on low elo scrubs who simply cannot play her.

bringing in biased statements

Like? An example please.
We were talking about late game and I was saying you need to focus THAT AD because the AD will always be the strongest in late game.

Reginald said:


And no, AD carry always will not be the strongest champion in late-game. Let's take for example Veigar, Kassadin, Karthus, LB, Malzahar, Poppy, Tryndamere.

Actually she's the best Solo Q AP Champ around, what are you talking about?

On low elo yes, but not in high. She needs well coordinated team to work well.

Not many people pick up LB, simply because she is tricky and hard to play, her early-game is hard because she's having trouble with farming.
Don't judge LB simply because 1400's cannot keep the farm up with the rest champions. She's a great champion, very, very strong late-game. Easy to 1shot AP or AD carry.

As I said, do whatever you want and believe whatever you want. I'll stick to my "biased" opinions, I'm bored of repeating the same things. If I'd tell you that a 26 inch monitor is 26 inch you'll argue that the monitor is not 26 inch but 25. Just because you say so.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 10:56 AM

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Immahnoob said:
As I said, do whatever you want and believe whatever you want. I'll stick to my "biased" opinions, I'm bored of repeating the same things. If I'd tell you that a 26 inch monitor is 26 inch you'll argue that the monitor is not 26 inch but 25. Just because you say so.

*sigh*

Next time don't run to LoL forum and ask for help when you're having trouble in argument ;) Mr. I know everything, hahaha.
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 11:01 AM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:
As I said, do whatever you want and believe whatever you want. I'll stick to my "biased" opinions, I'm bored of repeating the same things. If I'd tell you that a 26 inch monitor is 26 inch you'll argue that the monitor is not 26 inch but 25. Just because you say so.

*sigh*

Next time don't run to LoL forum and ask for help when you're having trouble in argument ;) Mr. I know everything, hahaha.

And here comes the retard response again. You're just refusing to accept the truth, I can't shovel it in your head (even tho I'd like to do it just now).

*sigh* What they told me I already told you before everything. I wanted to see if I can add more, maybe you would actually listen to a greater player than you, whatever.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 11:09 AM

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-States that he knows everything about the game.
-Posts a thread in LoL forums "Guys, I need help in argument"

-States that he's better player than I am, while having lower elo than my smurf.

You really mad my day. I haven't been laughing so hard for long, long time.

When I'll start again playing LoL - I'll ask you for some tips to rise my elo. OH WAIT, LOL.
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 11:11 AM

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one-more-time said:
-States that he knows everything about the game.
-Posts a thread in LoL forums "Guys, I need help in argument"

-States that he's better player than I am, while having lower elo than my smurf.

You really mad my day. I haven't been laughing so hard for long, long time.

When I'll start again playing LoL - I'll ask you for some tips to rise my elo. OH WAIT, LOL.

I do know everything about the game. Do you even know why I made that thread? I don't need more ELO than you, one of these days you're going to tell me Evelynn is OP and that she's a beast on top lane.

If you're not playing LoL then why are you still here?




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 11:28 AM

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Immahnoob said:
I do know everything about the game. Do you even know why I made that thread? I don't need more ELO than you, one of these days you're going to tell me Evelynn is OP and that she's a beast on top lane.

If you're not playing LoL then why are you still here?

Yes, yes, you do know, your low elo is just because you're having trash teammates, oh wait, that sounds like 1200's excuse.

Because you have no understanding of LB, you had your own fallacy in your head, which is pretty damn inaccurate. You better read some posts which disagree with you, they have something to say and are right on some things.

I will not, because she's too weak. She can work in some games but she's too weak to say that she's "OP".

I just see that your mind is set to: "This is how teamfights go, NEVER something can go wrong, all the time every1 has perfect positioning, if LB tries to kill AD carry - she magically gets CC'ed and dies."

I lold at the AIDS example as well, how stupid you have to be to compare AIDS to LB late game, rofl.

You're one amusing guy, aren't you.
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 11:40 AM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:
I do know everything about the game. Do you even know why I made that thread? I don't need more ELO than you, one of these days you're going to tell me Evelynn is OP and that she's a beast on top lane.

If you're not playing LoL then why are you still here?

Yes, yes, you do know, your low elo is just because you're having trash teammates, oh wait, that sounds like 1200's excuse.

Because you have no understanding of LB, you had your own fallacy in your head, which is pretty damn inaccurate. You better read some posts which disagree with you, they have something to say and are right on some things.

I will not, because she's too weak. She can work in some games but she's too weak to say that she's "OP".

I just see that your mind is set to: "This is how teamfights go, NEVER something can go wrong, all the time every1 has perfect positioning, if LB tries to kill AD carry - she magically gets CC'ed and dies."

I lold at the AIDS example as well, how stupid you have to be to compare AIDS to LB late game, rofl.

You're one amusing guy, aren't you.

Didn't had a better example you got me there ^^. It's the way you counter argument bro, we know for a fact that LeBlanc falls off late game, as we know for a fact I'm born on August 19 1992. Anyways, I want to say that I usually get pissed at people that simply ignore the truth, you're an ignorant but you're not stupid.

So overall, people like you exist to piss me off, it's not like I didn't act like you sometimes (I made a rant thread about the Tribunal, got upvoted to heavens, but it was still baseless statements, ignorants help "ignorants"). We both talk about our experiences, you say she's good late game, I say she's shit, never had problems with her, and I'll never will. Of course I added things like Theory Crafting too, but you used the same type of argumentation like "Oh you know, that 5% of the games where the carry/tank/w/e role is so underfed and I'm so farmed that I piss gold".

LeB tries to kill the AD Carry, somebody like Taric sees that happening and uses his stun, LeB has to go back before she get's focused or die trying to get the carry that instaheals and gets heals from Taric, or simply flashes while you do your combo.

That AIDS example, you don't get the idea behind it, I was talking about facts, if you have AIDS it's a fact because you got scientific evidence from the blood tests, so nobody can contest and say something like "YOU DONT" or "YOU DO", you're contradicting facts, that's what I meant.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 12:37 PM

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I'm not here to piss off anyone, nor laugh, but I had to be a bit rude due to your insults.

I'm not being ignorant, I was really trying to understand what you meant in your previous posts but it just didn't make any sense, because you were giving me impossible situations. Or situations which CANNOT go any other way than you are stating, which is just bullshit.

If we're talking about "LB will fall off for the most of the time", I can sort of agree, but that is not because she's bad champion, she is hardest champion to farm with. I'm talking here about the 0.3% platinum players who actually can play her at her best, I really don't give a damn about rest.
Never trust the "majority" of league players, remember that the 75% are unranked.

Low elo players has tonns of these fallacies. Like "WW is OP", "Katarina is not viable"(Scarra and Kotlettdrake loves Kat), "AP Karma is shit", "Kassadin is OP", "Tryndamere is OP", etc.

Of course I added things like Theory Crafting too, but you used the same type of argumentation like "Oh you know, that 5% of the games where the carry/tank/w/e role is so underfed and I'm so farmed that I piss gold".
LeB tries to kill the AD Carry, somebody like Taric sees that happening and uses his stun, LeB has to go back before she get's focused or die trying to get the carry that instaheals and gets heals from Taric, or simply flashes while you do your combo.

But your "theorycrafting" was inaccurate, which was obvious by just the <600AP 6 item AP carry, and saying that 6item LB cannot 1hot 6item AD carry, which in perfect situation she can.

I was taking in count that every single champion in both teams has full build. Even then she is not useless, because she can take down to 20% any other champion, yet it depends which champion that is and how much MR they have.
But in real game - you will never have, well maybe few, such games where every1 has all items, max 3 champions in one team have their items maxed. LB can 1shot any "underfed" champ, which makes 4x5 fight, she can get caught out of position and die, she can be underfed cuz she was having REALLY bad early-mid game, there are so many examples I can give to you of how game can go.

And you're still sticking to your example where LB will jump in, while enemy champions have their CC skills up, or try to kill some1 who has Banshees up. But you have to understand that TF will never go as you're imagining it, yet sometimes it can be "perfect", tho such fights are very rare.

That AIDS example, you don't get the idea behind it, I was talking about facts, if you have AIDS it's a fact because you got scientific evidence from the blood tests, so nobody can contest and say something like "YOU DONT" or "YOU DO", you're contradicting facts, that's what I meant.

I didn't even try to get the idea behind it simply because it was just plain stupid comparison.

There is no fact that LB is underpowered in late, it just comes down to how well you're doing with your cs'ing and executing your skills, what is your team composition, what is enemy team composition, and many other factors. Yes, there can be better choices rather than LB but playing "efficient" champions can get boring.
She's risky pick but definitely not UP nor useless in late, I really don't see how taking tanky champs down to 20% Health can be considered as useless, not forgeting that she can 1shot AP/AD/Support or any underfed champ. AP champions like Ryze, AP trist, Veigar, Kassadin, and some more, can also work in either way, depending on how game is going, but in perfect situation they are all viable, just like LB, with her ridiculous burst damage.

What makes champion to work is the player behind it. Let's take Eve for instance - Fact is that that she's too weak for current meta-game and champion in general. But then I ask a question - how she can be too weak and not viable if she still can work in some games, even carry them?
Games can and do go either way, even if you counter your opponent - you can lose your lane.
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 12:45 PM

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one-more-time said:

If we're talking about "LB will fall off for the most of the time", I can sort of agree, but that is not because she's bad champion

I said she's shit late game, NOT that she's BAD in general. Ok then, I made a mistake, I'll correct myself. She will fall most of the times except those times when your opponents actually think of countering you, which is the easiest thing in the world. I never said she's "underpowered" or "bad' she just can't kill of somebody as you say, she will do damage then she needs to wait another 15 seconds to do the same damage.

Get it? Pffffff, it is my mistake that I think people know what I think, or it's just my way of rushing posts. I don't know, oh well, kinda ashamed now. You get 575 AP btw, I've checked on the Builder, if you get a blue potion you get 40 AP, so 615 AP, if you go full AP runes you should get to 650, but not 700. You're talking about accuracy, it seems you lack it too.

I never had such problems thats the thing, I don't remember the last time I was that out of position to actually get hit by something, I'm playing mostly Ashe/Corki/Graves/Vayne and I don't remember having problems with my positioning except for shitty team comps where I had all "offensive" type bruisers (Irelia) or "offensive" type supports (bltzcrank). I find it quite unlikely that nobody notices that LeBlanc, or nobody wards or anything. Ok, there are situations of course but those are rare, that's what I'm saiyng.

The comparison, wasn't a comparison to LeBlanc, it was a comparison to "argumenting facts".
Modified by Immahnoob, Apr 22, 2012 12:58 PM




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Apr 22, 2012 1:02 PM

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Immahnoob said:
I said she's shit late game

"Not by much"=/="She's shit in late game". Oh shit, man, wrong player, had to ask it to Froggen not Yellowpete, lol. I'll post his response if I'll get one.


You get 575 AP btw, I've checked on the Builder, if you get a blue potion you get 40 AP, so 615 AP

My random example, look at the "Ability Power". It's 690, without blue pot. ~740 with pot.
Modified by one-more-time, Apr 22, 2012 1:08 PM
LUL
 
Apr 22, 2012 1:28 PM

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one-more-time said:
Immahnoob said:
I said she's shit late game

"Not by much"=/="She's shit in late game". Oh shit, man, wrong player, had to ask it to Froggen not Yellowpete, lol. I'll post his response if I'll get one.

You're playing solely with AP runes and Magic Pen? That's a bit extreme IMO, it's even worse than before.

He did say she falls off late game, still single burst, so in the end I was right. As I said, there are better picks.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
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