| I don't agree with it. It's a cowardly way out and really makes life difficult for those around you. I use to have no clue on this topic. I had thought it a couple of times myself(My home life is no camp will leave it at that). But that change when I had a friend my first year at school try to kill herself. We found her on the floor of the girl's bathroom unconscious. She had over dosed on some pills and I spent that whole night in a panic. Totally changed how I look at suicide. Yes life is hard. Any sort of resistance to a person isn't taken kindly and sometimes it does feel overwhelming. I've been there, but suicide isn't the answer. It is more or less taking the easier way out. |
| People commit suicide <- my views on the discussion |
burntlettuce said: I don't agree with it. It's a cowardly way out and really makes life difficult for those around you. I use to have no clue on this topic. I had thought it a couple of times myself(My home life is no camp will leave it at that). But that change when I had a friend my first year at school try to kill herself. We found her on the floor of the girl's bathroom unconscious. She had over dosed on some pills and I spent that whole night in a panic. Totally changed how I look at suicide. Yes life is hard. Any sort of resistance to a person isn't taken kindly and sometimes it does feel overwhelming. I've been there, but suicide isn't the answer. It is more or less taking the easier way out. Prove that only cowards commit suicide. |
| Suicide doesn't solve anything period. |
| | Anime List | Manga List | It's been a while... |
| People are dumb and can do whatever they want so I don't really care *shrugs* |
mackakana said: Suicide doesn't solve anything period. Sure it does. If somebody doesn't want to live and they commit suicide then that solves their life problem. |
| So... Guys... A bunch of you are saying "People can do what they want. Not my problem." What if your friend or family member was going to attempt suicide? (If you don't have friends or family, just imagine for a second that you do instead of bringing it up.) Would you still say that? |
| As I mentioned in my post earlier, I've had 2 friends commit suicide. The first when I was 15 with a childhood friend who had overdosed on pills just because she had broken up with her bf. Her mom was the supporting type who loved her daughter....now she is a recovering alcoholic. My 2nd friend at 18 hung himself in their families backyard. His father went through a heart attack on that very same day. The reason? He didn't get good marks at school (as it was our last year in H.S). As you can see, these were trivial reasons for them to do what they did, and as much as I still say they were my friends, I would also say that they were cowards for taking the easy(and most dumbest) way out of a problem that could have been fixed. The impact it left when 2 of my friends died were catastrophic and for anyone who thinks it's ok if someone commits suicide...just think about it for a second when it's someone close to you. Your children, your lover or your parents. Unless serious circumstances forces you to commit suicide, I will always despise you or anyone who does take that road just because they thought their life was hard |
TensaiShonen said: As I mentioned in my post earlier, I've had 2 friends commit suicide. The first when I was 15 with a childhood friend who had overdosed on pills just because she had broken up with her bf. Her mom was the supporting type who loved her daughter....now she is a recovering alcoholic. My 2nd friend at 18 hung himself in their families backyard. His father went through a heart attack on that very same day. The reason? He didn't get good marks at school (as it was our last year in H.S). As you can see, these were trivial reasons for them to do what they did, and as much as I still say they were my friends, I would also say that they were cowards for taking the easy(and most dumbest) way out of a problem that could have been fixed. The impact it left when 2 of my friends died were catastrophic and for anyone who thinks it's ok if someone commits suicide...just think about it for a second when it's someone close to you. Your children, your lover or your parents. Unless serious circumstances forces you to commit suicide, I will always despise you or anyone who does take that road just because they thought their life was hard You can despise them all you want. I'll just despise your ignorance for calling people who commit suicide cowards. |
Jay_Ox said: You do realize that 90% of successful suicides have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder? They aren't doing it entirely of their own free will.zharnotczar said: So... Guys... A bunch of you are saying "People can do what they want. Not my problem." What if your friend or family member was going to attempt suicide? (If you don't have friends or family, just imagine for a second that you do instead of bringing it up.) Would you still say that? If I thought that I could do something to change their mind I would. Otherwise I would support them. I would be sad, but I would still have my memories of them and the knowledge that they chose to die of their own free will. |
| I suggest you read either The Myth of Sisyphus or The Savage God. The Myth of Sisyphus is a classic that deals with the dereliction regarding human strife, and Camus in it discusses the outcome of suicide quite well. The Savage God however was probably the saddest book I've read; if not for the prologue but for the the sheer pessimism ingrained in it. There's a 45 page intro speaking about his friendship with Sylvia Plath, someone who was close to him, yet killed herself in a bout to for acknowledgement. Alvarez is probably the person who knows the most about Plath and yet at the same time is willing to speak on behalf for her. Views, though, are another matter. Suicide is a subjective plague initiated, tangibly, only on the aggravator. Disregarding the morals, every living being has the ability, and natural right to treat their body however they like. You were born with yourself, and thus, have the given right to do whatever you like with that shell. One could say though that it's selfish to kill yourself since you'd shatter your relatives, and/or friends. But then wouldn't it be selfish to want the person who's evidently suffering to live on your behalf? Oh, I know there's the "well, we can get him help", but the reality is, this "help" is a stupid facade put onto people to make them feel better. If this "help" was really so victorious then suicide wouldn't be such a popular form of elixir. If someone's suffering, then by all means they have the natural right to deal with it however they choose to, but the morals of it are always the ambiguous aspect. In my humble opinion, I feel suicide is justified whenever because that person is born free to act however they want. The consequences will ultimately have to payed though, even if you're not part of them. And the religious aspect... that makes me lol hard. |
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rTz said: If you're so against moral or existential nihilism, what do you hold and on what basis? I'm simply taking the skeptical position. Semantics What of people who are nothing but leaches in the short term anyway? For instance, Bernie Madoff could have seppuku'd and I don't think anyone would have given a rip. Yes the man who was smart enough to organize and run the longest biggest financial scam in the history of America is a "leech".... In nature we call that an Apex Predator You don't HAVE to be nihilistic to commit suicide. Keep in mind the fine people at Jonestown all believed in a universal, objective morality. except they where all forced to kill them selfs by a doped up nihilistic fuck. try again They are paid to work. You're only creating more work, and therefor securing their job positions. Because Clearly cops all over America, whole divisions and entire parts of law enforcement infrastructure are either being down sized or entirely removed, because there isn't enough "work" to go around. Did you know here in some parts of Florida you can't even report a non violent crime to 911 anymore? you have to report it online and they will maybe get around to it. I blame silly cultural superstitions revolving around the sanctity of the dead. (Cremation costs about $1000 last I checked) Buried my grandfather a couple months ago only cost me $950. With full military Honors. That makes jobs for people who specialize in cleaning out bloodstains, and also provides lo-cost housing to the poor, if only they got over silly superstitions. Why do you hate the poor so much? yes because the "poor" add so much to the economy. So you're saying the primary reason we shouldn't commit suicide is because we won't get as much money? Isn't that reducing human life to a monetary issue? pretty sure I made that clear from the beginning. If the mechanic charges more than the car is worth, why not have a bonfire? at least scrap it for pocket change money. Nah, I've heard that being an executioner is quite the depressing job. Kevorkian didn't seem to mind. |
JigeroAug 18, 2010 12:14 AM
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
Jigero said: rTz said: Jigero said: rTz said: Jigero said: Suicide is crap because people fail to realize how much of an inconvenience it is for other people. All these Emo kid hipsters thinks it only effects them, and philosophical wannabees will try to argue that there's no morality and it's not selfish and life is stupid. I like how using stereotypes, personal insults, sweeping generalizations, and strawmen seems to constitute an argument in your book. And I like how your faux-intellectualism, nihilism, hair splitting, and "I'm gonna try to make you look wrong so I feel better about myself", constitutes yours. If you're so against moral or existential nihilism, what do you hold and on what basis? I'm simply taking the skeptical position. Semantics lol, do you even know what semantics means? |
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Drunk_Samurai said: Prove that only cowards commit suicide. you'll never find proof because cowards aren't worth mentioning...the only ones who'll remember them are immediate families that are probably still in shock of their cowardice Drunk_Samurai said: You can despise them all you want. I'll just despise your ignorance for calling people who commit suicide cowards. I would rather you despise me of being ignorant, then being despised as a coward. I can live with that whilst those that do commit suicide can't live wit-...oh snap! |
Lucjan said: lol, do you even know what semantics means? starting to wonder if you do. |
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
Jigero said: rTz said: Jigero said: rTz said: Jigero said: Suicide is crap because people fail to realize how much of an inconvenience it is for other people. All these Emo kid hipsters thinks it only effects them, and philosophical wannabees will try to argue that there's no morality and it's not selfish and life is stupid. I like how using stereotypes, personal insults, sweeping generalizations, and strawmen seems to constitute an argument in your book. And I like how your faux-intellectualism, nihilism, hair splitting, and "I'm gonna try to make you look wrong so I feel better about myself", constitutes yours. If you're so against moral or existential nihilism, what do you hold and on what basis? I'm simply taking the skeptical position. Semantics Semantics is one of the most vitally important parts of philosophy. Why do people say that word as if it is some magic charm to ward off arguments they can't deal with? But the real hard truth is your dead dumb ass displaces resources that could be better used else where and effects other people. If we're going the utilitarian route, I might point out that being dead uses the least resources possible and is therefor the best for the planet. Long term maybe, Short term no, your taking away resources from some one who may need it at that time. What of people who are nothing but leaches in the short term anyway? For instance, Bernie Madoff could have seppuku'd and I don't think anyone would have given a rip. Yes the man who was smart enough to organize and run the longest biggest financial scam in the history of America is a "leech".... I nature we call that an Apex Predator Fine. But by that logic, all leaches are apex predators since they make a living by exploiting other people, and by doing less work themselves. Now if you did some kinda bodily harm to your self externally there's probably blood all over the place and probably stinks, if used a gun bits of you are every where. Oh and the real fun starts when no one finds you for a while. The smell of decay is almost impossible to get rid of. I recommend drowning in a vat of lye. Haunt people's soap. Ah if only the nihilistic fucks had enough foresight. You don't HAVE to be nihilistic to commit suicide. Keep in mind the fine people at Jonestown all believed in a universal, objective morality. except they where all forced to kill them self by a doped up nihilistic fuck. try again They weren't forced to join. There are more suicide cults than that, too. [quotes] Now the cops gotta come and secure the scene, then the Coroner to pronounce time of death making them go out of their way. Then they might have to do autopsy. Then your relatives gotta spend money for your funeral and alot of the money at that. All of which stimulate the economy--they give work for the brave policemen, the coroner, and the funeral home, like some sort of necro-Keynesianism. Nothing more selfless than saving a few jobs by taking a hit for the team. not really just over works people who are already paid shit. They are paid to work. You're only creating more work, and therefor securing their job positions. Because Clearly cops all over America, whole divisions and entire parts of law enforcement infrastructure are either being down sized or entirely removed, because there isn't enough "work" to go around. Did you know here in some parts of Florida you can't even report a non violent crime to 911 anymore? you have to report it online and they will maybe get around to it. That's because reduced funding as a result of recession has led to fewer jobs in that area, and as a result they are swamped, Not cheap putting some one in the ground. Fuck yeah, incineration. heh funny because cremation is actually more expensive. Burning a body takes a long time at high temps and wastes alot of fuel. Mass graves would be cheaper. But people tend to get all uppity about those. I blame silly cultural superstitions revolving around the sanctity of the dead. (Cremation costs about $1000 last I checked) Buried my grandfather a couple months ago only cost me $950. With full military Honors. The average funeral cost is $6500. Then who ever owns the room you died in has to get it cleans and in some cases completely gutted. Either way very expensive to do. Ah, economic stimulation. not really, people tend not to like to live in rooms where people died, and kinda don't like the stench of death, Codenamed buildings don't really add much to the economy and neither do Apartments that smell like rotting flesh. That makes jobs for people who specialize in cleaning out bloodstains, and also provides lo-cost housing to the poor, if only they got over silly superstitions. Why do you hate the poor so much? yes because the "poor" add so much to the economy. More than people who make money in derivatives, futures, and other non-material, non-productive things. Now lets say you fail, well now you gotta go to the hospital now the hospital has to waste waste resources on you when it could have been used else where and they are gonna baker act you and throw you in a hospital for 3 days and if your really crazy then put you in a nice padded room and shoot u up with enough drugs your a mindless zombie. Oh and that's a nice fat bill too. On the other hand, the resources used to treat someone who later dies from suicide are going to be less than what would be necessary to help them in old age. You know what costs much more than funerals and carpet cleaning? Retirement homes. Yes but dying of natural causes nets you insurance money, Suicide kinda defaults those. Hmmm pay for your funeral out of pocket? or pay with insurance death insurance? So you're saying the primary reason we shouldn't commit suicide is because we won't get as much money? Isn't that reducing human life to a monetary issue? pretty sure I made that clear from the beginning. Can people put their lives up as collateral, and then purposely default on their loan? and Economy wise, Hospices, Retirement Homes and Drug companies who supply these places make a shit ton of money. Isn't that the same argument I was making above in regards to carpet cleaners and funeral homes? That's why Suicide is dumb I don't give a shit about morals or courage. Your pathetic ass had to mess up everyone's day and waste peoples time. Because you couldn't just buck up and deal with your crappy life. Suicide is certainly one way of dealing with it. Well sure and a way to deal with a car that's not working is by setting it on fire. Instead of just taking it to the mechanic. If the mechanic charges more than the car is worth, why not have a bonfire? at least scrap it for pocket change money. Are you advocating legalizing organ trade? At least go get murdered by criminal so we have a reason to waste our time. Isn't that called assisted suicide? Yet another way to help bring the country out of recession--if legalized, this would perhaps create thousands of new jobs to help the chronically unemployed. maybe the chronically unemployed should go kill criminals then? Nah, I've heard that being an executioner is quite the depressing job. Kevorkian didn't seem to mind. Kevorkian is a hero we should all look up to. He helps people in time of need, without regard to his own well-being or the pressures of the media, and in-spite of personal threats. |
| "When he will, the weary world Of the senses closely curled Like a serpent round his heart Shakes herself and stands apart." - A.C., Equinox I/I |
zharnotczar said: So... Guys... A bunch of you are saying "People can do what they want. Not my problem." What if your friend or family member was going to attempt suicide? (If you don't have friends or family, just imagine for a second that you do instead of bringing it up.) Would you still say that? I would probably not encourage someone who was suicide who wanted to die to actually go through with it. I would try to help, but I don't want to be too pushy. I hope they wouldn't want to. I'd tell them why I wanted them to live and if they don't like what I'm saying they can do what they want. In the end you need to respect their decision. |
TensaiShonen said: Drunk_Samurai said: Prove that only cowards commit suicide. you'll never find proof because cowards aren't worth mentioning...the only ones who'll remember them are immediate families that are probably still in shock of their cowardice Drunk_Samurai said: You can despise them all you want. I'll just despise your ignorance for calling people who commit suicide cowards. I would rather you despise me of being ignorant, then being despised as a coward. I can live with that whilst those that do commit suicide can't live wit-...oh snap! I knew it. You don't have shit. Your ignorance shows in your post. |
Jigero said: Lucjan said: lol, do you even know what semantics means? starting to wonder if you do. I've had all too much experience with the teaching of it... I'm afraid that you're using the term quite obscurely. Unless you can elaborate, I'm taking it that you only know it at face value. But that's not how you "figure" out philosophy. |
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Drunk_Samurai said: I knew it. You don't have shit. Your ignorance shows in your post. know what? Have what? Your post fails in telling a point ..and my ignorance of what? that I don't understand the person's story and why their about to commit suicide? unless your dying and can't handle the pain, are being chased by loan sharks who want you dead or your in some 3rd world country who might not see tomorrow anyways, then I don't want to hear...and yes I'll be ignorant for any other reason....your brought into this world for a reason, and if you can't find a reason, I'd suggest you ask your mom & dad what that may be |
zharnotczar said: So... Guys... A bunch of you are saying "People can do what they want. Not my problem." What if your friend or family member was going to attempt suicide? (If you don't have friends or family, just imagine for a second that you do instead of bringing it up.) Would you still say that? I've had both friends and family commit suicide, and several others attempt it (some real failed attempts, others intentional just for attention). I still stand by my original statement that people are entitled to do as they wish. In every instance where people I've known have taken their own lives, I've been quite accepting of it. Some were expected, others weren't, but the result is still the same. It's their choice to end their own lives and I'm fine with them having done it. Why, what were you trying to get at? |
Asako said: I've had both friends and family commit suicide, and several others attempt it (some real failed attempts, others intentional just for attention). I still stand by my original statement that people are entitled to do as they wish. In every instance where people I've known have taken their own lives, I've been quite accepting of it. Some were expected, others weren't, but the result is still the same. It's their choice to end their own lives and I'm fine with them having done it. Still bear in mind that individual's all choices are created by social structure. Although individual reasons for suicide differ, almost always the rate of suicide in every country tends to be constant. So in every suicide there is a space to blame society. Social structure explains why the Japanese kill themselves more than the Americans, and Americans more than the Portugese.  |
| ^^^ O shi.... Europe is sooo red o.o Good that my country and the country I'm planning to live in are yellow xD |
| It's Asia that's red, and it makes complete sense. You can see that Russia is entirely in the red. Russia has a lot of issues though... And North Korea, well, that wasn't to hard to figure out. I lol'd though at seeing Africa with no data. |
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TensaiShonen said: I was an accident...your brought into this world for a reason, and if you can't find a reason, I'd suggest you ask your mom & dad what that may be The pill didn't work and i was born so does that mean i have a reason? Let's hear it please :) |
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Pessoa said: Well, social solidarity did have more correlation to rates of suicide than whatever personal reasons the individual had. If social solidarity is super low or super high, then rates of suicide increase.Asako said: I've had both friends and family commit suicide, and several others attempt it (some real failed attempts, others intentional just for attention). I still stand by my original statement that people are entitled to do as they wish. In every instance where people I've known have taken their own lives, I've been quite accepting of it. Some were expected, others weren't, but the result is still the same. It's their choice to end their own lives and I'm fine with them having done it. Still bear in mind that individual's all choices are created by social structure. Although individual reasons for suicide differ, almost always the rate of suicide in every country tends to be constant. So in every suicide there is a space to blame society. Social structure explains why the Japanese kill themselves more than the Americans, and Americans more than the Portugese. This apparently belief that it's always up to an individual's choice (not really just about suicide) seems more of an illusion to justify one's own inability to help or even attempt to help or just apathy as just about every choice we make is based upon past experience and social relationships. I know if I care someone well enough, I wouldn't want them to hurt themselves, or as far as trying to kill themselves (but my persuasion is known to suck). And it's not like human choices are rational all the times. We ain't perfect. Under some circumstances, suicide can be justified rational, but at other times, not. Should I allow them to do something short-sighted, even though their situation really isn't as bad as they think it is? "Oh yes friend. I know your choice of committing suicide is really irrational or stupid, but I'll let you do it anyways because we are friends and I agree with your choice albeit how irrational or stupid it is. After all, this is what friends do. We never attempt to change your views, we respect everything you do, even if it's blatantly stupid and short-sighted. Afterall, we're friends/family, right?" |
TachiiAug 18, 2010 6:19 AM
Gogetters said: TensaiShonen said: I was an accident...your brought into this world for a reason, and if you can't find a reason, I'd suggest you ask your mom & dad what that may be The pill didn't work and i was born so does that mean i have a reason? Let's hear it please :) even if you were conceived through accident, is your life that fucked atm to wanna slash wrists? fair enough the pill didn't work, but i'm sure your mums not dumb enough to have brought you into the world 9 mths later because she just realized that her stomach just got bigger "oh..I wonder why my stomachs getting bigger...must be the cheesecakes' |
| My last post was a joke. What's not to say that this "reason for being born" you're talking about was for this person to kill them self? Also i think it's pretty selfish for a parent to let's say... have a kid for purpose of it becoming president. Reasons are not given, they are made. |
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Gogetters said: My last post was a joke. What's not to say that this "reason for being born" you're talking about was for this person to kill them self? Also i think it's pretty selfish for a parent to let's say... have a kid for purpose of it becoming president. Reasons are not given, they are made. apologies if I didn't get the joke, I can be very sensitive when it comes to this matter as the friend I had mentioned earlier who died on my last year of high school was a very close friend who bottled everything inside of him and made jokes like these so no one actually knew if he was serious or not...the last night we were together, my friends were having drinks and it would have made a good 'Stand By Me' setting if you'd had seen us...imagine the shock I got when my mom got the phone call next morning and hearing my friend had hung himself so nowadays when I hear of ppl talk about it in jest or even contemplate it, I'll try to stop them if I could...even if its the net...these days there are counselors who can help depression if that's what it is....i'd rather send someone there then a mortician any day |
| My view on suicide is pretty simple. Don't do it on my lawn and we wont have any problems..... In all seriousness I think its pretty lame to kill yourself yet I feel you should have complete control over what you choose to do to yourself. A person should have that right to choose, but maybe make some standards/rules? In other words the person in question should make sure others know, so we are not wasting resources trying to figure out what happened. Almost like that happy box in the movie children of men. |
Tachii said: "Oh yes friend. I know your choice of committing suicide is really irrational or stupid, but I'll let you do it anyways because we are friends and I agree with your choice albeit how irrational or stupid it is. After all, this is what friends do. We never attempt to change your views, we respect everything you do, even if it's blatantly stupid and short-sighted. Afterall, we're friends/family, right?" I know you intended that to be sarcastic, but that is pretty much my view. If they make the choice, then that's that. Why should I talk them out of it? Obviously they've given it a lot of thought, and they know themselves best. Why should I force some sort of morals on them to continue living with whatever shit they feel they can't? Besides, we need less people on the planet. Convincing people to live when they don't want to, or breed when they're clearly not cut out to be parents, is irresponsible. |
| Asako, I would at least try to tell them how much they're worth to you. Just letting them be shows them that they're really not worth it all. I'm in the same boat with you, suicide should be the aggravator's decision, and we shouldn't force them to change there minds. However, I see a darker side of you who really just doesn't give a shit (excuse my language). If I had a friend, or family member, that meant a good deal to me, and they expressed extreme sadness and depression as well as a strong want to kill themselves, I wouldn't shrug it off and be like "oh well, their choice, not my problem". I would tell them how much they mean to me, and that regardless of their decision, there'll always be at least one person (me) who finds their company fulfilling and that their presence embodies me with more good than bad. Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression here, but what you're conveying here is something cold and indifferent. Why would you let a friend wallowing in the derelict of his miserable life end himself alone. At least be there for him... |
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Lucjan said: what happen If they still want to die. What would you do?I would tell them how much they mean to me, and that regardless of their decision, there'll always be at least one person (me) who finds their company fulfilling and that their presence embodies me with more good than bad. |
I'm in the same boat with you, suicide should be the aggravator's decision, and we shouldn't force them to change there minds. |
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| then what is the point of comforting.Does that makes you feel better? I think it only makes the person(suicide) feel worse by comforting it. <,< |
| If you were in the rut of depression and were on the verge of suicide, would a friend showing you how much you meant to them really be a bad thing!? Seriously, how cold are all of you mal users ?___? |
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| Firs of all ,the main reason why a person is in a rut of depression is because of the surrounding ignorant people and out of the sudden the ignorant people come in to comfort the person would be treated like sympathy. Comforting is not a last minute work, comforting must start from the start. |
| I lol'd at you trying to explain suicide. You tried so literally too. You can't, and certainly shouldn't, speak on behalf of every person contemplating suicide. There's no "first of all" here, everyone experiences depression for different reasons. But remarking on the example you've given, if until that point that person's misery has been ignored, why on earth would they turn down the possibility of not being ignored? This is like saying that if someone's who's been ignored by their fellow classmates went into High School, that they'd be completely oblivious to friendship. I've been ignored before, and been in depression, and as unfortunate as I was to not have someone close enough to care about what I was feeling, I know I would have wanted someone to. And "Comforting is not a last minute work, comforting must start from the start." shows me that you're arguing against something else. Never did I say that sympathy would ever talk someone out of suicide. I suggested it as a way to show the suicide that they weren't alone, and that even if they did take their life away, that they'd still be loved. |
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everyone experiences depression for different reasons I expect the depression doesn't comes from heaven nor Hell. Since experiences of depression are made by and influence by human. I suggested it as a way to show the suicide that they weren't alone, and even if they did take their life away, that they'd still be loved. they may still suicide.... maybe more in more dramatic way. why on earth would they turn down the possibility of not being ignored? Well, you have to consider almost every person in this world are basically stubborn . |
Asako said: Except just like how we might not know what they're going through, how do we know they gave a lot of thought to it? How do we know that they know themselves best? It isn't common sense or any sense at all that one individual would know themselves better than others. Parents for example may know their children better than they do. Even friends. And a person doesn't remain static in his/her perspectives forever, while at the same time, we're constantly influenced by social factors and environments. What this means is that, it isn't something we really have to "force" to change their opinion. As easy as someone who wants to hang themselves, it's just as easy to be empathetic to their situation, instead of apathetic, which is what I'm getting at from your POV. Now of course this might not work, but empathy can go a long way. Tachii said: "Oh yes friend. I know your choice of committing suicide is really irrational or stupid, but I'll let you do it anyways because we are friends and I agree with your choice albeit how irrational or stupid it is. After all, this is what friends do. We never attempt to change your views, we respect everything you do, even if it's blatantly stupid and short-sighted. Afterall, we're friends/family, right?" I know you intended that to be sarcastic, but that is pretty much my view. If they make the choice, then that's that. Why should I talk them out of it? Obviously they've given it a lot of thought, and they know themselves best. Why should I force some sort of morals on them to continue living with whatever shit they feel they can't? Besides, we need less people on the planet. Convincing people to live when they don't want to, or breed when they're clearly not cut out to be parents, is irresponsible. As for having less people on the planet, I keep smirking when I hear this. We all should know by now it's the developing countries that's "overpopulating" the planet (much to the fault of developed countries putting ridiculous debts, but anyways). Some developed countries actually have a negative birth rate/death rate ratio (forgot what the term was). There's also not much point for developed countries to lose their otherwise stable population since, again, it's the developing countries that are reproducing in a unstable rate. I question if you're even serious about this line of reasoning. But I guess since you did say you had some friends or family that committed suicide, you must have felt something at least instead of this indifference which is what I'm getting at from your posts. Though now I'm somewhat curious. What kinds of family or friends did you have that committed suicide? Old people? Teens? Adults in their prime? People with incurable diseases soon to pass away? Etc. I mean, if it were old people or people with incurable diseases, then I understand it's more about respect or empathy rather than apathy. But otherwise... |
TachiiAug 18, 2010 9:42 AM
| For the original poster, here's a brief overview of some philosophical stances on suicide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_suicide And another, more discussion and topic based http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/suicide/ Not going into the terminally ill and situations like that... Suicide is the end of life and liberty, an escape that you can never escape from. The chance that thing will get better is wiped away because that chance is ignored or rejected. Suicide also causes great pain to those around the person that commits it, and it's not something I can condone. |
Lucjan said: Am I the only one who found this argument to incredibly ironic?Jigero said: Lucjan said: lol, do you even know what semantics means? starting to wonder if you do. I've had all too much experience with the teaching of it... I'm afraid that you're using the term quite obscurely. Unless you can elaborate, I'm taking it that you only know it at face value. But that's not how you "figure" out philosophy. |
LordWolfeye said: So does dying of natural causes so pretty much you're going to cause pain whether you choose to live or die.Suicide also causes great pain to those around the person that commits it, and it's not something I can condone. |
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TensaiShonen said: Drunk_Samurai said: I knew it. You don't have shit. Your ignorance shows in your post. know what? Have what? Your post fails in telling a point ..and my ignorance of what? that I don't understand the person's story and why their about to commit suicide? unless your dying and can't handle the pain, are being chased by loan sharks who want you dead or your in some 3rd world country who might not see tomorrow anyways, then I don't want to hear...and yes I'll be ignorant for any other reason....your brought into this world for a reason, and if you can't find a reason, I'd suggest you ask your mom & dad what that may be You're full of shit since you say only cowards commit suicide. |
LordWolfeye said: Looks like I'm under neutral based on wikipedia. How... expected.For the original poster, here's a brief overview of some philosophical stances on suicide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_suicide |
Gogetters said: LordWolfeye said: So does dying of natural causes so pretty much you're going to cause pain whether you choose to live or die.Suicide also causes great pain to those around the person that commits it, and it's not something I can condone. I wasn't talking about people that were going to die soon anyways. And I'm pretty sure suicide causes more emotional distress to loved ones than natural causes. |
| Suicide is an incredibly misunderstood topic. The amount of ignorance towards suicide and depression considering the medical strides we have made is astounding. Medical experts know suicide is not a matter of cowardice or weakness, yet that notion hasn't trickled down to the masses, who often view suicide as a cowardly, selfish "crime." I can not and will not speak for anyone else who has suffered from depression and suicidal ideation. I view suicide as someone's right if they so choose, but also recognize that suicide is often done without any long term thoughts regarding how your life probably will eventually improve. Depression creates a one track mindset. There are many reasons to consider suicide for many people, I just ask that if you are considering it, you use all options avaialble to you regarding receiving help. This is ignoring suicide for terminally ill patients. Again, I would never deny that from someone. Pain can be a nightmare. |
"There is also powerful evidence that some suicides are impulsive. A classic study of 515 persons prevented from jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge found that 94% of those had died from natural causes or were still alive 25 years later. The belief that Golden Gate Bridge attempters will inevitably "just go somewhere else" to kill themselves was clearly unsupported by the data. "Instead, the findings confirm previous observations that suicidal behavior is crisis-oriented and acute in nature. Accordingly, the justification for prevention and intervention…is warranted and the prognosis for suicide attempters is, on balance, relatively hopeful." (Seiden: 1978) Quote Source Original Study from University of Berkeley |
Zarola said: Drunk_Samurai said: Zarola said: Kipcha said: I think it is the cowardly way out. Plain and simple. Suicide is a way to escape without actually solving anything, and people who commit suicide are just people without the strength to do something. I agree with this. I also believe that people should be able to die as they please. It doesn't stop them from being cowardly in my opinion, though. So you mean to say you're a hypocrite. No. I mean to say that people can do whatever they want, but that doesn't mean they aren't a coward. No it means nothing. There is nothing cowardly about suicide. It's my opinion. It means something to me, and if you don't like it you don't have to bash me for it. There's no such thing as a correct or incorrect opinion. If you're going to quote me again, do so, but I won't reply any further to you after this. |
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