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Jul 31, 2010 6:27 PM
#1

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Hi there. Here's a disclaimer: This post is going to be fairly long, so if you don't want to read, you should go away now. I will not take kindly to people who post anything like “tl;dr”.

Anyway, I'll get straight to the point now.

I've been on MAL for a few years. I've amassed a considerable number of posts, the majority of which are “legit” as I never posted in spam while posts counted toward the count, and have fairly limited club activity. Since becoming a mod I have been fairly concise with “moved to X” or “<reason> locked.” type posts, but I do try to type at least a line whenever I do reply to a thread in just about any context.

Why am I rambling about this? Well... we have a rule a lot of people don't heed. That is rule number eight (previously seven), “You are not required to reply to every single thread and post in a forum. Please only reply if you have something useful to add to the thread. One or two word posts such as "I agree", "OK" and "Me too" are all considered nonsense (with some exceptions such as the Name That Anime thread). If you do not have anything helpful to say in a thread or you do not know the answer to a question, please do not post simply to say that you do not have anything to say or that you do not know the answer the question.“

That means replying with a +1, a lol, “no.” “yes.” or pretty much any single word post is considered nonsense in the vast majority of cases, not to mention simply quoting somebody else and not adding anything of your own. I used to regularly PM people about it and for a while it worked; people really did cut down on the nonsense replies and the overall content of the forums took a step up... but it didn't last long. It's common behaviour across the internet, so people just do it by default however people's behaviour is influenced by others. I've been on many forums and am still semi-active on a few besides MAL, and none of them face the same levels of this sort of posting as MAL does.

A large part of that, I think, is because people just follow the way others post. If they see people just quotechaining, or +1ing, replying with a lol or no or whatever short useless reply, they'll do it too. And so the cycle continues and snowballs out of control before long. After a while, I got sick of PMing every single person about it and just deleted the posts without telling them, sometimes culling several pages off threads that were overrun (news threads are notorious for this) and just posting in bold something like “Deleted a lot of quotechaining and nonsense, please stop it.” – and sometimes people do. It does work on occasion. Sometimes, however, it doesn't.

I've issued temporary bans to a few people over the matter. One person was even permabanned due to a rule eight violation being the straw that broke the camels back. Harsh? Yeah, maybe. But these are people who do it very frequently, and in fact rarely ever actually contribute to discussion at all. The extent of the majority of their posts are one word replies or quotes. Due to the limited manpower on MAL as of late (and broken PMs for a while) I have less patience for this sort of thing and would like to publicly appeal to people to try to raise the bar here on the MAL forums, which honestly have a terrible reputation in the anime community due to reasons such as this (and more I won't get in to in this thread).

Really, it isn't difficult to at least try to explain your stance on a matter. If somebody asks a stupid question you just want to reply yes or no to, stop to think for a minute before posting. Try to articulate your stance in more than a few words. Feel free to explain to the questioner (politely) why you think their question is redundant/silly/stupid or whatever else, before just flatly saying yes or no. Particularly if it has a poll; you can just vote on the poll without replying the way you voted, unless you want to explain why you voted the way you did.

More importantly though, try to ignore threads you think are stupid. Don't post in them stating they're stupid. That's redundant. It takes less effort to not post at all, so why waste the time and energy hitting a few keys and clicking the post message button. If you do it too often, I will ban you. It's as simple as that. I don't want to sound threatening, it's just a statement of fact. This sort of poor behaviour on the forums is a burden on the community we honestly don't need.

Oh, and posting things such as telling people they posted in the wrong section or are duplicating an existing thread is pointless, too. Just report the thread, PM a mod or flag one of us on IRC and we can deal with it. You just come off as obnoxious to new people (who don't know the rules) while +1ing your post count.

Another thing... in series discussion, posting “I liked it.” or similarly concise replies in chapter/episode threads is also rather pointless. Unless you want to explain why you liked (or disliked) it... how about just using the poll that is on all ep/chap threads to express your feelings. That's what they're there for. Posting is to elaborate. If you don't, why post at all?

So just stop to think for a second before posting. Take time to articulate real replies. I'm not asking for multiple paragraphs, just a line. A sentence will do. More than a word or two (or three, don't try to get cocky making just 3-4 word nonsense replies). If everybody does a little, it can add up to a lot. This is just one rule I'd like people to try to heed, and encourage others to pay attention to as well. Double posting and huge sigs are completely separate issues that plague us, but this one is more of a widespread problem that impacts the quality of the community as a whole.

Please. I'm asking nicely.
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Jul 31, 2010 6:31 PM
#2

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232
is spam an exception?
Stupid 3rd World Country

Jul 31, 2010 6:34 PM
#3

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There will always be people who will continue doing the things you've said. Maybe because they're lazy to read, acquiring for more posts, men with few words, trolling and whatnot.

But what bothers me are those people in the series discussion, replying "I like it/I hate this episode" kind of thing. Polls are there for a reason, dummies.

Forums wouldn't be complete with these kinds of members.
Jul 31, 2010 6:34 PM
#4

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I haven't seen anyone say such simple words. And I'm glad I have not :D
Jul 31, 2010 6:35 PM
#5

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I must've accidentally violated 4 rules.

Problem is, I can't find the rules.
So I sorta gave up and headed on without knowing, for like...7 months.

I don't even know how to report.
So....yeah....I'm clueless
Jul 31, 2010 6:36 PM
#6
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Unless Xinil forces people to read the rules and make them remember them (such as some sort of quiz, as some other sites do) I doubt this will stop.

Besides, the people doing so are probably just reading the topic title.
Jul 31, 2010 6:37 PM
#7

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Why does not the admin promote some moderators with decent IQs; employing them to delete spam, without warning?... Heck, why doesn't he do SOMETHING about ANYTHING? Uselessness is most irritating, I find.

I've tried to make a number of threads, in the past, but people kept spamming; regardless of what I typed in the opening posts. And, as a result of this, anyone with anything of value to say gets driven out by those who cannot even put together a sentence without needing a minute to think.

The current mods do sweet fuck all. So, instead of being bothered by it, I stopped taking the forum semi-seriously and started viewing it as a venue for light entertainment, instead.

Words will not sway anyone. People will only listen when they're threatened, or put at risk. Hard love is the only way to change others.
AironicallyHumanJul 31, 2010 6:41 PM
Jul 31, 2010 6:39 PM
#8

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I haven't seen too many short replies, guess you guys take them off quickly. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with short replies. Don't want to sound like a freedom of speech activist, but is it really so important to deny them what they want to say, even if it is just one word?
Jul 31, 2010 6:39 PM
#9

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Asako said:
MAL forums, which honestly have a terrible reputation in the anime community due to reasons such as this (and more I won't get in to in this thread).


I'm pretty sure I know what the main reason is.

Anyway I thought the moderators didn't care about that to be honest. Shouldn't you sticky this or post it in the rules thread too?

Was the permabanned member Neverender?
Drunk_SamuraiJul 31, 2010 6:42 PM
Jul 31, 2010 6:44 PM

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Attempting to control the way people post on the internet is just asking for self induced stress. If anything, it'll just leave people with a bad taste in their mouths.
Jul 31, 2010 6:48 PM

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And leaving people unattended leads to forums/sites as horrible as MAL, where rubbish is posted every few minutes and tweens cyber the night away. Everything done by humans needs to be restricted, for nothing good comes of letting children play with fire.

What MAL needs is a lot more mods, and a lot willing to do more than warn annoyances. I care not at this stage since, as has been pointed out, MAL's reputation is in the gutter, but to improve it certainly needs to be governed with far more care.
Jul 31, 2010 6:53 PM
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Aironic said:
What MAL needs is a lot more mods, and a lot willing to do more than warn annoyances. I care not at this stage since, as has been pointed out, MAL's reputation is in the gutter, but to improve it certainly needs to be governed with far more care.


Yes, what MAL needs are more people that float around and post thirteen paragraph topics when they get sick of what they volunteered to do.

That'll solve a lot.

I rarely see any Forum Moderators other than Asako anyway.
Jul 31, 2010 6:59 PM

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Aironic said:
And leaving people unattended leads to forums/sites as horrible as MAL, where rubbish is posted every few minutes and tweens cyber the night away. Everything done by humans needs to be restricted, for nothing good comes of letting children play with fire.

What MAL needs is a lot more mods, and a lot willing to do more than warn annoyances. I care not at this stage since, as has been pointed out, MAL's reputation is in the gutter, but to improve it certainly needs to be governed with far more care.


The posting style of most people on MAL really has nothing to do with MAL's reputation. If anything it's the fact that a lot of people support piracy on the forums by linking to various sites.
Jul 31, 2010 7:01 PM

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Well, that cleared up some things for me, thanks. Though, I'm not completely sure why you care so much Asako. It doesn't exactly hurt the pride of MAL and most people just do the things you stated in the Spam section anyway. Maybe I'm just not on MAL enough to see all of the mayhem *shrug*.

Kairen said:
I don't even know how to report.
So....yeah....I'm clueless
The report button is at the bottom right corner of every post.
Jul 31, 2010 7:02 PM

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Zahlzeit said:
Well, that cleared up some things for me, thanks. Though, I'm not completely sure why you care so much Asako. It doesn't exactly hurt the pride of MAL and most people just do the things you stated in the Spam section anyway.

Kairen said:
I don't even know how to report.
So....yeah....I'm clueless
The report button is at the bottom right corner of every post.
I see....I didnt see it there.
Thanks for telling me
Jul 31, 2010 7:03 PM
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Drunk_Samurai said:
The posting style of most people on MAL really has nothing to do with MAL's reputation. If anything it's the fact that a lot of people support piracy on the forums by linking to various sites.


Oh, I thought it had more to do with diligence of those that maintain the site. The usability of the forum comes before those that post within it.
Jul 31, 2010 7:04 PM

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I'm glad someone decides to bring this issue up. I've been on the forums for 2+ years and I've noticed a great difference in how people act towards each other on the forums and the quality of the posts. The threads being created outside of the spam subforum don't help with MAL's, as Aironic puts it, "reputation" either. I would suggest Xinil creating a mandatory page of rules for all new MAL members to read, but that wouldn't do any good, especially with trolls. The idea of recruiting more forum mods could probably work, though. I haven't seen a lot of forum mods around aside from the anime and manga ones, anyway.
Jul 31, 2010 7:05 PM

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Onibokusu said:
Drunk_Samurai said:
The posting style of most people on MAL really has nothing to do with MAL's reputation. If anything it's the fact that a lot of people support piracy on the forums by linking to various sites.


Oh, I thought it had more to do with diligence of those that maintain the site. The usability of the forum comes before those that post within it.


Well we never get a reply back from Xinil if we ask about something anyway. I've grown use to that. I meant sites like ANN most likely look down on sites like MAL which condone piracy.
Jul 31, 2010 7:09 PM
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Drunk_Samurai said:
Onibokusu said:
Drunk_Samurai said:
The posting style of most people on MAL really has nothing to do with MAL's reputation. If anything it's the fact that a lot of people support piracy on the forums by linking to various sites.


Oh, I thought it had more to do with diligence of those that maintain the site. The usability of the forum comes before those that post within it.


Well we never get a reply back from Xinil if we ask about something anyway. I've grown use to that. I meant sites like ANN most likely look down on sites like MAL which condone piracy.


Well, technically MAL doesn't and also does at the same time. I mean, we can't post directly to the location of a download, but we can post a link to a site that hosts the download. This is according to rule one of section one under the forum rules and guidelines.

The rule should be abolished completely, as it is pointless.
Jul 31, 2010 7:16 PM

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I've actually never even read the forum rules, and I'm sure there are a ton more like me who haven't. Guess it's time to take a look.

Jul 31, 2010 7:19 PM
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Seems like there are certain times where those types of spam posts are not only acceptable but ideal. What about the introductions forum, where the purpose is for a large volume of people to welcome a new member and lengthy and involved content from post to post is not important?

Or a poll of some kind, which similarly focuses on volume of responses and not necessarily depth of content?

It seems like sometimes short, spammy posts are actually beneficial. Perhaps the difficulty in moderation at MAL is not because there is so much spam because no one follows the rules, but a misunderstanding on the part of the moderators as to which spam is actually harmful :)
Jul 31, 2010 7:28 PM

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The introduction forum is the most worthless forum in existence. The same people post the same one word messages in every thread.
Jul 31, 2010 7:32 PM
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PockyBebop said:
I'm glad someone decides to bring this issue up. I've been on the forums for 2+ years and I've noticed a great difference in how people act towards each other on the forums and the quality of the posts. The threads being created outside of the spam subforum don't help with MAL's, as Aironic puts it, "reputation" either. I would suggest Xinil creating a mandatory page of rules for all new MAL members to read, but that wouldn't do any good, especially with trolls. The idea of recruiting more forum mods could probably work, though. I haven't seen a lot of forum mods around aside from the anime and manga ones, anyway.

I agree. I think the biggest reason I personally haven't created that many threads on MAL in general is because there's no point. IMO, the trolling and spamming isn't funny anymore (never really found it funny in the first place), all it does is give these forums the reputation that no one can post a decent discussion outside of the Spam forum. That and there seems to be very little moderation so unless there are more mods or some of the mods start cracking down, it's just going to continue.

I don't think it's trying to control the way people post either.I'd say majority of forums have the rules that Asako has mentioned and they are simple to follow. If you don't have anything to contribute to a discussion, don't post in it, don't touch it, and just leave it alone. You don't need to have a comment in every single discussion, especially a useless one.
Jul 31, 2010 7:36 PM
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Nice rules imo. Do something with the trolls @ the spam section.
Jul 31, 2010 7:39 PM
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QysteiN said:
Nice rules imo. Do something with the trolls @ the spam section.


Then it wouldn't be spam, and would be a waste of forum space.
Jul 31, 2010 7:40 PM

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Well yes, it's controlling people to an extent. They're called rules It's reasonable to suggest 'please stop breaking those rules you technically agreed to when you signed up' :P And yeah, it should also be enforced in Introductions, rather than 20 people all saying "Welcome to MAL!" and then nothing else. The only time it really belongs is when someone's created a thread that needs a poll, then hasn't created said poll (and perhaps seconding/thirding recommendations).
Jul 31, 2010 7:45 PM
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Onibokusu said:
QysteiN said:
Nice rules imo. Do something with the trolls @ the spam section.


Then it wouldn't be spam, and would be a waste of forum space.

Yeah but if you want to post something serious there you always get trolled. I remember seeing a thread about what you eat for breakfast. It was filled with so much uneccesary comments such as ''S**erm on toast'' Also the ppl there are very rude and stupid in opinion. It may be ''Fun'' for someone but for me and some other. It's lame & childish. If they want to troll. They can move their asses to 4chan.
Jul 31, 2010 7:49 PM
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QysteiN said:
Onibokusu said:
QysteiN said:
Nice rules imo. Do something with the trolls @ the spam section.


Then it wouldn't be spam, and would be a waste of forum space.

Yeah but if you want to post something serious there you always get trolled. I remember seeing a thread about what you eat for breakfast. It was filled with so much uneccesary comments such as ''S**erm on toast'' Also the ppl there are very rude and stupid in opinion. It may be ''Fun'' for someone but for me and some other. It's lame & childish. If they want to troll. They can move their asses to 4chan.


It probably should have been posted in the General Discussion then, not spam. Spam isn't for serious discussion.

Also, way to generalise 4chan.
Jul 31, 2010 7:51 PM

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I agree












Nono don't ban me! I was joking!
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
Jul 31, 2010 7:51 PM

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Aironic said:
The introduction forum is the most worthless forum in existence. The same people post the same one word messages in every thread.


^Yeah, and if you told them to post a bit more. They'd just be copying and pasting the same few lined post.
But yeah.. we can't exactly delete that forum because they'll start flooding GD instead.
Jul 31, 2010 7:56 PM
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GreyWinged said:
I am fully behind the idea of removing Spam and Introductions. Both forums are entirely useless and serve only to inflate post counts.


Spam doesn't add to post counts.
Jul 31, 2010 8:09 PM

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JadedLover said:
I've actually never even read the forum rules, and I'm sure there are a ton more like me who haven't. Guess it's time to take a look.


agreed... I guess most people don't bother to read the forum rules... they just barged in to the Forum and post random stuffs/replies.... LOL...
Jul 31, 2010 8:10 PM

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CapellaStar said:
[ all it does is give these forums the reputation that no one can post a decent discussion outside of the Spam forum.


lol. That was a good one, CapellaStar.
Jul 31, 2010 8:12 PM
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You really don't need to read the rules. But I think you should be able to know what to post and what to NOT post.
Just stay Nice and you wont have any problems.
Jul 31, 2010 8:16 PM
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I have an idea that might not be feasible and really doesn't do much in the way of addressing the problems you brought up. However I'll just put it out there as food for thought anyway.

MAL could create a forum where no new threads are allowed. Then take the promising threads from general and move them to this location. People could continue to respond and further the discussions within these topics. They could also be more heavily modded than in other forums with stricter penalties for violating the rules.

Unfortunately this would basically be throwing general forum to the wolves. On top of that I'm not sure how you would determine which threads deserved to be "upgraded".
Jul 31, 2010 8:16 PM
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GreyWinged said:
Onibokusu said:
GreyWinged said:
Awfully convenient that you'd post that after I call you out on it.

Defend your garbage forum all you want, sir. I refuse to post in it because it has an awful reputation. :V


The point of those images to show the lack of increase in posts. You've just been served.


You still have an awful lot of pride for a forum that is designed for nothing other than shitposting. I think that's silly. Don't you?


You mean I have an awful lot of pride for a section of the forum. Spam is superior.

Give the introductions section the same basic rules as spam, and that particular part of the problem will be solved.
Jul 31, 2010 8:29 PM
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Drunk_Samurai said:
CapellaStar said:
[ all it does is give these forums the reputation that no one can post a decent discussion outside of the Spam forum.


lol. That was a good one, CapellaStar.

Not sure what you mean, but just in case, I wasn't trying to say that the Spam forum provided any kind of decent discussion :0
Jul 31, 2010 8:37 PM

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QysteiN said:
You really don't need to read the rules. But I think you should be able to know what to post and what to NOT post.
Just stay Nice and you wont have any problems.


I haven't read the rules either ._.
I guess the common rule amongst all forums is common sense, tends to get most people out trouble.
It's just when when a whole heap people do something, others (who haven't read the rules) think it's acceptable - that's where this thread comes in I suppose :S
Jul 31, 2010 8:45 PM

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Asako said:
Oh, and posting things such as telling people they posted in the wrong section or are duplicating an existing thread is pointless, too. Just report the thread, PM a mod or flag one of us on IRC and we can deal with it. You just come off as obnoxious to new people (who don't know the rules) while +1ing your post count.


I completely agree with a lot of what you've said, however, I don't agree with this. I'm going to continue to tell people the shit is duplicate, or breaks the rules, or was posted in the wrong section because the forum mods are not fast enough. I report things every day and there is no reason why I can't be the one to explain to the user why this thread will be locked/moved/deleted. I honestly don't give a shit about my post count and I don't really see how some people do. I don't care if my post count goes up +1 for 5 paragraphs worth of stuff or a sentence explaining to someone why their thread will be moved/deleted/locked. Oh, lastly, I don't care if people think if I'm obnoxious; I'm not here to make everyone like me.

I've just never posted for a +1 and anyone who has is wut.

btw, this isn't the first and wont be the last thread about how to fix MAL forums and why these forums suck, etc. I've made even made some of those topics. Though since you're specifically talking about one aspect I guess I wont report it. Not much has changed in the last 2 years.

Aironic said:
The introduction forum is the most worthless forum in existence. The same people post the same one word messages in every thread.

But if we got rid of it some people might attempt to post that shit in GD!
SY_IS_DEAD_IRLJul 31, 2010 8:49 PM
Jul 31, 2010 9:21 PM

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Yeah, I've seen the "quote and nothing else" posts quite a bit. Hell, I even did it every now and then, but I didn't think it was pushing the "not a decent post" rule. I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

Any word on cracking down on people being asses based on people's taste in anime/scoring methods? I've seen quite a few posts degrading other members for their tastes, such as "Oh, you rated this higher than I would have, you're an idiot" or "You liked x anime, the hell is wrong with you?" I know I'm fairly new, but have posts like this always been acceptable?

Or what about people just being asses in general? I know there's one particular member who has literally nothing on his lists, and all of his posts basically degrade other members of the forum for their opinions. I only know of one person that fits this description, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there were more.

Onibokusu said:
I rarely see any Forum Moderators other than Asako anyway.

I see Nayah floating around every now and then. He(?) mostly just merges and locks threads, though. Asako at least socializes in the threads every now and then.

Aironic said:
The introduction forum is the most worthless forum in existence. The same people post the same one word messages in every thread.

Jesus, agreeing with this like crazy. When I first joined, I almost posted there, but I saw pretty much every thread was a flood of "omg hai".

selective_yellow said:
Aironic said:
The introduction forum is the most worthless forum in existence. The same people post the same one word messages in every thread.

But if we got rid of it some people might attempt to post that shit in GD!

Why not just a sticky in GD called "Introductions Here"?
Jul 31, 2010 9:25 PM
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Zukin-Man said:
Any word on cracking down on people being asses based on people's taste in anime/scoring methods? I've seen quite a few posts degrading other members for their tastes, such as "Oh, you rated this higher than I would have, you're an idiot" or "You liked x anime, the hell is wrong with you?" I know I'm fairly new, but have posts like this always been acceptable?


You mean posts like this?.
Jul 31, 2010 10:02 PM

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Have a few mods dedicated to each board, a few more global mods, and make them actually do something and we probably wouldn't have so many issues.

Then again, there's a lot of immature people on the internet, and here; can't escape them.
Jul 31, 2010 10:04 PM
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MorningGlory said:
Onibokusu said:

You mean posts like this?.

Now that is what I call " opinion vs opinion "
My opinion is better than your lousy Opinion... Wuahahahha
Well, the post is full of hypocrisy anyway.

One of the thread rules is specifically to show respect to someone's list.
Jul 31, 2010 10:07 PM

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Zukin-Man said:
Yeah, I've seen the "quote and nothing else" posts quite a bit. Hell, I even did it every now and then, but I didn't think it was pushing the "not a decent post" rule. I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

Any word on cracking down on people being asses based on people's taste in anime/scoring methods? I've seen quite a few posts degrading other members for their tastes, such as "Oh, you rated this higher than I would have, you're an idiot" or "You liked x anime, the hell is wrong with you?" I know I'm fairly new, but have posts like this always been acceptable?

Or what about people just being asses in general? I know there's one particular member who has literally nothing on his lists, and all of his posts basically degrade other members of the forum for their opinions. I only know of one person that fits this description, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there were more.


They pretty much let people do what they want in that regard. Sometimes people get banned for it but I don't think anybody has been permabanned for it before.
Jul 31, 2010 10:08 PM
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Onibokusu said:
MorningGlory said:
Onibokusu said:

You mean posts like this?.

Now that is what I call " opinion vs opinion "
My opinion is better than your lousy Opinion... Wuahahahha
Well, the post is full of hypocrisy anyway.

One of the thread rules is specifically to show respect to someone's list.
Wow, very fast reply . ( i don't want to make war with Aironic ,that is why I deleted it LOL)
Well,I do agree that this world is full with hypocrisy (including me )
Jul 31, 2010 10:10 PM

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Onibokusu said:
One of the thread rules is specifically to show respect to someone's list.

The thread (and said rule) were created by the person who made the post you linked to. Just something I noticed.
Jul 31, 2010 10:30 PM

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RipCoin said:
is spam an exception?

Haha, the meat or the internet thingy?
Jul 31, 2010 10:31 PM
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Zukin-Man said:
Onibokusu said:
One of the thread rules is specifically to show respect to someone's list.

The thread (and said rule) were created by the person who made the post you linked to. Just something I noticed.
That's generally point of my post.
Jul 31, 2010 10:33 PM

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As some others have said, I think you guys really just need more capable moderators. I don't visit the forums here too often but I don't tend to see many around when I do. Find people who seem to be smart and should be able to do a good job and ask if they'll come aboard. There are a lot of morons running around, sure, but it shouldn't be too hard to find a few good ones, right?
Jul 31, 2010 10:34 PM
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MorningGlory said:
Onibokusu said:
MorningGlory said:
Onibokusu said:

You mean posts like this?.

Now that is what I call " opinion vs opinion "
My opinion is better than your lousy Opinion... Wuahahahha
Well, the post is full of hypocrisy anyway.

One of the thread rules is specifically to show respect to someone's list.
Wow, very fast reply . ( i don't want to make war with Aironic ,that is why I deleted it LOL)
Well,I do agree that this world is full with hypocrisy (including me )
I'm browsing the recently posted threads very fast now.
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It’s time to ditch the text file.
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