Would you prefer a smaller anime community overall?

ok cool, well Japan doesn't have the history that the west does when it comes to racism/sexism and people like them are stand out



this is just some simp bullshit, shes fucking ugly in the Witcher 4 and was hot in the Witcher 3, i don't know why you think theres something wrong with complaining about the change. this is fiction and there was 0 reason to change her appearance



WHO THE FUCK looks THAT MUCH OLDER in 3 YEARS???

are you fucking serious? what did she do in those 3 years?

meth?



just because you can find a ton of people bitching about something on the internet doesn't mean theyre a majority

theres 7 fucking billion people on this planet and MILLIONS of people watch anime, why the fuck do you care about "Nazis" or whatever leaving stupid comments when these people ARE NOT INVOLVED in western anime distribution, DON'T work for CR and DON'T interview manga/anime creators?

do they even harrass the creators?

why the fuck do they matter?




ill say it as many times as i have to.... the ENTIER PIONT of gatekeeping is to preserve what makes something special



these people have had ZERO EFFECT on the industry

why the FUCK do you care about them?



Japan is a homogenous country, Europe isn't, its NOT comparable, they have no reason to give a shit about black representation



so what? what power do they have?





if social media had been as relevant back then as it is now, then people would have complained EVEN MORE... society is WAY MORE ACCEPTING of shit than it was back then, saying "no one cared" is just wrong

whats REALLY made things worse is social media becoming a part of every day life



last time i looked in the mirror, i was more than dark enough to say nigga...



how is that relevant, its a western IP created by westerners and over time they desexualized her



so being able to point out some western games where the female characters are attractive means theres no agenda to desexualize female characters in western media?



WHAT???

is this is a joke???




stfu

when did i "pivot" to anime?

my most likely first anime was Samurai Pizza Cats in like 1995, i was watching ALL KINDS of cartoons along side it

and it was Pokemon/Digimon in the late 90s that got me hooked on Japanese cartoons, BUT i was STILL watching western cartoons

it was the early 2000s when i stopped watching western cartoons, why? because anime art/ascetic was far more attractive to me and i started getting turned off by western art

what the fuck does that have to do with race???





its not about how many, its about who

the PROBLEM IS a larger community inevitably GUARANTEES the WRONG PEOPLE entering

And who gets to decide who the right people are and who the wrong people are? You? What gives you the right?

How are going about fixing this problem? Other than yelling at people that they're doing it wrong and should just disappear?

Do you think it's working?

I keep seeing this rhetoric around here and never understood how it's supposed to work. Maybe I'm not supposed to understand it because it's nonsense and does no good at all.

@perseii if you are a cultural imperialist. You are a problem.

Anime was never supposed to be receptive to western opinions. Maybe the most outlier examples this is fine(Big O season 2), but as a whole. The anime industry trying to appease westerners will destroy why any of us liked it in the first place. After all. The masses matter more.

Left or right. It doesn't matter.

@derangedx29 You didn't answer any of the 3 questions I asked...

I came in 2022 and I sure as hell ain't leavin.

Also AoT is shit

@kamonmabase that was how anime fans acted back then.

I'm emulating the 2006 Otaku. You think we had access to the thousands of titles back then we do today? If you were watching Haruhi and Higurashi back then...you were watching things few westerners were. Fact. You didn't just turn on Netflix to watch it. You literally had to find some obscure streaming channel. Torrent it. Do something. Maybe you found it in extremely low quality youtube videos at 1/3 uploaded each.

@derangedx29 Im aware, I was watching episodes in 10 minute chunks on YouTube back then as well.

But obscurity and ease of access doesn't make anything more or less "real" than other options. You're relying on classic determinations used by desperate identity lacking nobodies who validate their inability to cope with their own irrelevance by insisting tenure and trivial knowledge are the true value indicators for people in a community.

Nobody gives a shit that you're old. Nobody gives a shit you read the manga before the anime existed. Nobody gives a shit that you had to use a search engine and wait a little bit for your torrent to download.

@valico people obviously do give a shit when they blatantly lie about being into anime back in the old days...then say "I watched Adult swim" and stuff. No you didn't watch Haruhi. You didn't know who the Japanese Seiyuus were. You didn't do any of that but now you're trying to pretend you were apart of this community back when it was niche.

And please. People care about tourists. People care about new fans. Anime fandom is all about elitism. Always was. And Always should be.
Heck. That's the entire point for many on this site. So they can brag about watching 250 days of anime and 1000 titles.


And dubbed vs subbed is STILL a thing today with sub watchers shitting on dubbed fans lol.

@derangedx29 all i see is you describing a bunch of the same nobodies I was talking about before. anyone acting like that is just another loser who doesn't matter. Deranged and pathetic behavior.

@valico that applies to most people on this site.

What is the point of this site for most aside from bragging off about how much anime they watched? Maybe you didn't fill your list out but people wouldn't use a site like this...unless they wanted to show off how much anime they watched.


Elitism has ALWAYS been the a feature, not a bug of the anime fanbase.

@derangedx29 Mate, what are you talking about? I don't see a single "I'm better than you because I have seen more anime" thread here. And if someone did make a thread like that they'd largely be ignored or ridiculed.

@valico that applies to most people on this site.

What is the point of this site for most aside from bragging off about how much anime they watched? Maybe you didn't fill your list out but people wouldn't use a site like this...unless they wanted to show off how much anime they watched.


Elitism has ALWAYS been the a feature, not a bug of the anime fanbase.

What do you mean by this? You definitely could interpret this in many different ways, and a few would not be positive lol. Japan has a long history of sexism and literally ran one of the most evil regimes of the 20th century, that was heavily racialized. Different than the West? Sure, however, arguing they don't have the history? Almost all developed societies have a history of sexism, and Europe really only invented the scientific bigotry which Japan adopted lol. Racism is present also in all societies.

Lol is all I have to say to that. Maybe you need to get away from anime waifus for a bit. She fights monsters for a living (if anything she should have way more scar tissue). She still looks like an instagram girl, from Eastern Europe, which is not actually how a person in her position should look. It's still heavily idealized if we are to be honest.

Ciri Rendering For Witcher 4

Yeah this isn't a conventionally attractive woman, big LOL. Maybe the femcels are right. If this is the standard for beauty in women....men are trash lol.


This logic is true in the reverse too you know.

Hmmm....this comment was pretty unrelated to anything I said? I never aid they did. As for caring about Nazis, have I said anything beyond hey we got shit people in the community, and I feel they have been even more mask off of late? That is about all I said lol? I mean you have that one case cited in this thread. Horkoshi got shit, though that was mainly Chinese nationalists, though I guess they count as international fans. I don't pay enough attention to online drama to actually comment though. I am just talking about my own interactions with the community, no idea what artists face on the regular.
Did I say they do? Like the reason we got into this conversation is just me saying that people who complain about politics, it's a pretty much a 50/50 coin flip on if they are a bigot, at least in my experience. I never said anything about caring, I just think people who say "oh I just don't want anything political" are often lying and hiding their own unsavory characteristics. That is all I said. I never made anything about going on a crusade to get rid of bigotry in the community.

Europe is quite "homogenous" in many regions, and Japan isn't exactly a pure "homogenous" country. Ahem....the Ainu. Assimilation doing wonders eh? Or if we are going to extend this to their wider history, relations with wider Asia during their Imperial period.

Plus.....how is this relevant? Like if you are making a story about a sci fi universe or fantasy, why does it matter that Japan is homogenous? The settings often aren't in Japan.... I mean Japanese creators feel that way which is why you often saw a lot of diversity in older sci fi anime for instance. It's not like Japanese creators aren't aware of where their works are becoming popular either and how they can market to a more international base with more diverse characters.

No one, at least I am not saying Japanese creators must do x or they must do y. They want to make another romance SOL show in Japan, with 100% Japanese characters feel free. I am just commenting on the fact some people do get offended just by people saying hey it would be cool they did x or being appreciative if they do see rep.

Plus all I am saying is people don't get this agitated when anime includes white characters which is again suspect.

I didn't talk about power, my point is this isn't a small part of the fandom in my experiance, and that you have a lot of assholes hiding behind "politics in media" which is what we were talking about, and the only thing I asserted.

Gatekeeping implies you can do something, what are you going to do stop them from financially influencing the industry lol? That is all that matters.

@sorcery You do realize that 70% of people you're complaining about having "too much influence" are the main buyers of anime merch, right? Why the fuck should studios not cater to the people who spend the most? And there's barely any ecchi these days despite what you people think. We have a whopping total of TWO this season.

@Tropisch

I don't see how being a gooner and buying a lot merchandise goes absolutely in hand together. Case in point, Gundam fans: they've bought a lot of mobile armor gunpla and their passion has no fetishistic essence to it. If there was 70% less of testicular fiends, the nature of merchandise manufacturing and markets would change... Into something more diverse than just waifus. It would be a heavenly improvement!
If you think anime must cater to perversions and not go past it, I have nothing else to answer that you are my ideological enemy.

@MYZIC

Ohh, the kiddo thinks he has a major burn going on. Think again. I don't masturbate to cartoons as I watch hentai ironically like I watch bad anime. Actually, if you looked at the tags on my list, you'd see how I rate them according to comedy factor.
And I respect more Hentai, on the contrary of Ecchi. Because it is honest porn, it is not blueballing crap that is squatting my mainstream entertainment uninvited. Also, it is niche.
Now, try to crook my words to defend your gooner views, if you will.

"I watch it ironically"

‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

There is hentai in your list blud is not escaping the gooner allegations

@MYZIC As sorcery said, hentai is more honest. Ecchi teeters a weird line that I really don't understand why people go crazy over it. It's too much fanservice to just ignore it, but it's not enough to get you off.

That's worse than watching it just to get off tbh.

Japan doesn't have a history of taking slaves of different "races" or w/e and obviously hasn't tried AT ALL to be "diverse"

and it obviously hasn't had the same amount of screeching banshee feminists that the west has

this is what im talking about

wokeness obviously stems from these things, which is why people don't consider Japan to be "woke"




i don't give a shit what anyone thinks, i want my fictional women that are hot to stay hot, and if theyre gonna age, i don't want them looking like they did meth for 3 years

if it was 10 years later, then SURE... it'd be easy to understand, especially with what you mentioned

that is why people are complaining, end of story



NO



if they were the majority, then the results would show



i had to respond to like 3 of yall at 130am in the morning after work, i probably got you confused with someone else



i don't care about your own interactions with fans, whether or not toxic people exist isn't the problem, the problem is whether or not they respect anime as a medium and Japan's differences from the west



so what?



it'd be cool if they did a lot of things, but most people in Japan:

don't speak English

don't know what the hell is going on even in their own country

just copy other manga/anime, especially if its popular



"oh no"



the easiest way to gatekeep at this point is decide whether or not you want to talk to someone about anime/manga or any specific type of anime/manga

thats all, i didn't say i can do anything about it




@derangedx29

summed it up really well



i never said i can do anything about it, and its CLEARLY not working

@valico

If you see more of my posts, you will notice that I am mostly driven by intellectual curiosity. Watching the very bad isn't necessarily endorsing the very bad. That's why I never watch critically panned titles as they are airing. To not give them brownie points of any sort.

I choose my Plan to Watch Hentai according to how ballistic I think they will get. It's been awhile since last I watched one, because it's rare to stumble upon something which is made with crazy comical genius. Most of the titles are just going through the motion to fulfill one's sexual fantasy. And that's it. You see, earnest execution can aggrandize something I usually despise.

@valico
Not saying you're endorsing anything. But ironic hentai watching to judge its comedic value seems akin to ironic cigarette smoking to judge their bad flavor. Viewing porn ironically is just, like, supreme degeneracy lmao

You are comparing fermented apples with toxic waste canisters. For one, cigarette is literally detrimental to health. Brainrot is an arguably true concept and I won't get into this debate as it's far from the scope of this topic, but if it were meaning this, just say it. In my book, it's not degeneracy. It is, when the only things you are willing to praise are according to badness factors. Like, you can't enjoy anything in the entire medium if it's not in an ironical mah meme way.
You can call that what you want, a coping mechanism on my part. I wouldn't contradict you. Since the industry took a direction I partly disapprove of, I try to see the silver lining. I have just found nothing good about ecchi because I regard obtrusive fanservice (by obstrusive, I mean scenes specially composed to build up to fanservice at the expense of plot) as purely detrimental. It adds nothing to mainstream entertainment, while it could be used more to bolster the narrative of a Hentai and make it more entertaining. Think about this and think about how I regard it as artistic perversion. I am grieving about waste of artistic talent going to otaku pandering.

Ahh... another self-righteous elitist, combating their insignificance and lack of real world achievements by shouting from the roof tops that they are "World's #1 Anime Fan". I'm getting secondhand embarrassment for you.

@KamuiScum

Whatever you say, two-faced gatekeeper. Make sure to keep your brain always off. It's the kind of formula you love to repeat ad nauseam, am I right?

@valico

I am not completely sure to understand your train of thought on what truly makes ironical watching ironical, but I take that you greeted my view at a face value... Unlike these snakes who love to crook my words to defend their devious priorities.

Because they ruin discussions. We have tried to ignore them in hopes that shouting into an endless void would make them go away. That didn't work. They obsess over this culture war nonsense and would constantly bring it up. It's annoying.



Most people don't require that from Japan. Though let's be honest... It's a large reason for why people run to anime.



There were already forums and social media back in the day. People legitimately didn't care, for the most part. And you can tell when people did care. Look at: Family Guy, Beavis and Butthead, The Simpsons, South Park, etc. Or with video games like GTA. Moms made a huge stink about that stuff. Insert rants about violence in video games, inappropriate stuff on television, and "please think of the children" moral craze. Perhaps they were distracted by the moral panic, but I don't remember people caring about the race swapping of those shows.



Except, you used it in a derogatory way. Internalized racism is a thing... And you clearly have it. Especially because you're a black person getting into anime to avoid seeing black people on the screen.



Because she got desexualized under Japanese ownership.



If it was an agenda, then every Western game would follow suit. From indie games to AA games to mainstream AAA games, they still have attractive female characters that are playable. People criticized Fortnite, one of the biggest games on the market, for only having thin characters. Fortnite continues to only have thin characters, even when they've added Peter Griffin (who's famous for being fat). Overwatch continues to have a mostly thin cast of characters. League of Legends continues to have sexy skins. Valorant had attractive characters. These are big Western games, and they're doing what they want. If you argue that they're too big to bully, then there's some smaller AA games such as: Smite, Paladins, Friday the 13th, etc. There was some drama with Paladins where people complain about Furia showing too much thigh in her base model:



And tbh, I don't even know why there was so much drama with the above skin, because at that point, they had released more revealing and sexualized skins with voice packs to boot. Skins such as:



And after that drama, they continued to release sexualized skin that no one complained about. Even had several beach battle passes. They even managed to casually age a 15 year old girl up to 18 years old, conveniently when they gave her a skin that was sexualized and even increased her breast size. They even skirted that drama. Yet people made a big deal about showing thigh. Maybe it's because she was a warrior angel, and people don't like angels being sexualized. That's the only thing I can think of.



"I can allow Nazis in the community, but I draw the line at normies!"

@Morningstar991 "Also AoT is shit"
Please leave 3 years are enough

bruh wtf reading through this whole thread XD what did this devolve into?

woke minded people ruin discussions too, the difference is woke people actually have influence in the community, so one matters and the other doesn't



no its not

Lycoris Recoid for example, was the most profitable anime of 2022... like... it SHIT on most series when it came to sales

and what did it have as a MAJOR character?

A BLACK MAN



this is proof that people cared

lets say for sake of argument, people did "care less"

WHY?

maybe because the creators/directors or whoever BACK THEN were not INSULTING THE FANBASE, ie shitting on the source material or calling anyone racist or sexist for not liking a particular character REGARDLESS of their reasoning?

MAYBE THATS WHY?

you said it yourself, this stuff started to get big with gamergate, which i agree with

WHY?

because MODERN FEMINISTS do EXACTLY what i just mentioned above, calling you sexist/racist/homophobic etc, REGARDLESS of your reasoning




you didn't have to take it that seriously, I'm assuming you're also black, so i said it somewhat jokingly

i have ZERO issue with Halle Bailey as a person, as far as im aware, she didn't say anything negative about the source material or go on any kind of dumb political rant, she was just simply excited to get to play the character



shut the fuck up

i've been watching anime since before probably YOU were born and long before i even knew what racism or any shit like that was

i've seen both Black Panther movies, BOTH of which are OBVIOUSLY like 99% black people and guess what, i haven't even seen every MCU movie.. so what does that tell you?



she was already being desexualized beforehand



uh... WHAT?

just cause theres an agenda against something doesn't mean EVERYTHING can be controlled, ESPECIALLY with how much pushback there is against said thing and obviusly theres gonna be based developers who dont' give a shit and will do what they want



who said i wanted "Nazi's" in the community?

i want people who love manga/anime and respect Japanese cultural differences in the community

i don't care if people "dislike" certain aspects of manga/anime, i care if they endlessly whine about it to the point where theyre trying to shame people for liking it or even worse, try to actively change it

THAT'S ALL





if you don't complain about something you've loved and been a part of your whole or a majority of your life being changed in ways you dont' like, then are you really a fan?

do Japanese people who have lived in Japan their whole lives not have a right to complain if Japan isn't the same country in the next 10-30 years due to everything thats been going on over there?

theres Japanese people who don't want to go to Tokyo anymore because they no longer feel like its Japan

are they wrong?






well it kinda shows how impactful anime has become in peoples lives, especially in recent times, so its kinda a good thing if a topic like this becomes a dumpster fire

They really don't. Plenty of companies have ignored them. If something is in a media, then it's usually because someone wants it there.



A very small minority that was for the BS morals thing. The "protect the children" type. They were very rare. Most other people didn't care.



If there's mainstream examples of companies going against the agenda and smaller companies going against the agenda, then guess what? There's no agenda. It's simply workers making games that they like, and they don't align with the anti-woke. The agenda is paranoid conspiracy BS.



And Nazis are the people?