Reply to BubblegumPatty
@EcchiGodMamster
You do know Disney owns like all of that and is the common denominator, right? That downfall is pretty clearly greed and trying to milk their properties as hard as possible without caring about the actual quality, which ends up boring people after the honeymoon period. Too safe and #woke for the right wingers, but their 1000 First Gay Disney background Characters are so suspiciously easily to edit out for less inclusive markets that the Left is left unimpressed. all while offering absolutely nothing of artistic merit so they can keep churning out more more more more. It's not the masses you should hate, it's the companies trying to chase easy money.
You do know Disney owns like all of that and is the common denominator, right? That downfall is pretty clearly greed and trying to milk their properties as hard as possible without caring about the actual quality, which ends up boring people after the honeymoon period. Too safe and #woke for the right wingers, but their 1000 First Gay Disney background Characters are so suspiciously easily to edit out for less inclusive markets that the Left is left unimpressed. all while offering absolutely nothing of artistic merit so they can keep churning out more more more more. It's not the masses you should hate, it's the companies trying to chase easy money.
kamonmabase said: So, these are problems caused by Western intervention? Because you're making it sound a lot like Japan is choosing to do these things on their own as their saving grace. Do not get what I'm saying twisted... It's 200% their own fault... unsustainable cultural/business practices and changes in human relationships are to blame for the declining birthrate BubblegumPatty said: @EcchiGodMamster You do know Disney owns like all of that and is the common denominator, right? That downfall is pretty clearly greed and trying to milk their properties as hard as possible without caring about the actual quality, which ends up boring people after the honeymoon period. Too safe and #woke for the right wingers, but their 1000 First Gay Disney background Characters are so suspiciously easily to edit out for less inclusive markets that the Left is left unimpressed. all while offering absolutely nothing of artistic merit so they can keep churning out more more more more. It's not the masses you should hate, it's the companies trying to chase easy money. Yes, but I'm just naming them separately because it wasn't always the case and Disney is what destroyed many of these things The point is that these things were once "uncool" and when they were "uncool" companies were far less incentivized to "milk" or "exploit" them since the demand wasn't there Once something becomes "cool" then they start becoming sanitized or political and "for everyone" which ruins them for those who were always fans and weren't complaining And let's not pretend like there aren't agenda pushers... how many times now have woke ass directors said shit like, " I was trying to show the struggle of being x type of person" or some bullshit no one asked for in their for example, super hero movie |
EcchiGodMamsterMay 15, 12:17 PM
   |
Reply to EcchiGodMamster
Merve2Love said:
I do care^^
I do care^^
Then you should know that just letting "anyone" in inevitably brings in people who are just there to destroy what made said thing special, whether that be for easy money or pushing whatever politics
No, the corruption is adding "diversity" to avoid looking racist/phobic, instead of just making what people have always loved, they start doing bullshit like race swapping or making things overly political
derangedx29 said:
@EcchiGodMamster people really don't understand what it's like to be part of a small community that turns big.
@EcchiGodMamster people really don't understand what it's like to be part of a small community that turns big.
Seriously man, it's never the same after that
| @EcchiGodMamster Or, or, or! They could just like dark skinned people. Y'all really think that the only reason people want us in stuff, is for an agenda? Y'all don't think that we're appealing enough for the general audience? Simply because our skin is darker than tan? Really? |
| More community members = more experiences and ideas to share. That sounds like a win to me. That said, I wouldn't mind culling off a chunk of the shut-ins so we don't get so many bland self-insert protagonist isekai every season. Knocking out a few of the porn addicts and incels would probably benefit the anime community discourse overall, too, if I'm being honest. |
 |
Reply to EcchiGodMamster
Merve2Love said:
That would be (only) the negative side of things, just as I said.
I know I don't care and I live under a Rock and Im probably crazy saying this but:
I thought there was something to be gained from different people all over the World chiming in, rather than a couple of nerds smelling each others farts, isolating from "Normal People", while looking down on them.
Im not talking about changing Anime. Just about being open and social, with Newcomers, to further discourse. I thought that would make sense. That it would make Anime more interesting and relevant.
But...
apperently not^^
My bad. You guys are still the OG-Hardcore Fans, don't worry
That would be (only) the negative side of things, just as I said.
I know I don't care and I live under a Rock and Im probably crazy saying this but:
I thought there was something to be gained from different people all over the World chiming in, rather than a couple of nerds smelling each others farts, isolating from "Normal People", while looking down on them.
Im not talking about changing Anime. Just about being open and social, with Newcomers, to further discourse. I thought that would make sense. That it would make Anime more interesting and relevant.
But...
apperently not^^
My bad. You guys are still the OG-Hardcore Fans, don't worry
I'd love to live in this "diversity" world but it doesn't work
PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT and cultures have things that make them unique... so a "medium for everyone" is "a medium for no one"
That is the unfortunate reality and I live in reality
Merve2Love said:
a couple of nerds smelling each others farts, isolating from "Normal People",
a couple of nerds smelling each others farts, isolating from "Normal People",
Sorry, not sorry, but this is FAR MORE APPEALING to actual fans, than a bunch of normal people coming in trying to ride the wave of whatever is currently trendy until its killed off. I mean shit, that's basically the definition of "normie"
kamonmabase said:
Japan is way too insular to be significantly affected by that in the way western media was. If Japanese media goes that direction, it's because Japan is going that direction by its own free will.
Japan is way too insular to be significantly affected by that in the way western media was. If Japanese media goes that direction, it's because Japan is going that direction by its own free will.
This isn't as true as you'd like to believe
With their declining birthrate, they're constantly looking for "outside talent", there's even a news video talking about how they're looking for more overseas artists/mangaka and another article about trying to cater tokusatsu to the west with the declining domestic market. I'm always keeping up with this stuff
It just doesn't seem bad yet because it's only really starting as of recent but it WILL get worse over time
EcchiGodMamster said: Anime literally only exists, in it's current format, because of cultural diffusion.PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT and cultures have things that make them unique. EcchiGodMamster said: You can go on here and find fans that think anime died in the 2000s, that anime died in the 90s, that anime died in the 80s and so on. Anime has gotten worse for plenty of people already. I mean I will say, I am kinda disappointed myself that the medium pivoted towards fantasy LN instead of seeing a sci fi rebirth. For a lot of fans anime, died when K-On! and Haruhi released, so what will you say to them? I mean I have encountered Japanese anime fans complaining how Sunrise and anime is dead because Love Live exists, and stopped mecha from being as prevalent as it was in Sunrise's past. It just doesn't seem bad yet because it's only really starting as of recent but it WILL get worse over time Anime is going to change one way or another., and yeah it may change in ways you may not like. Main reason your investment in media in general shouldn't be so fanatical cause billion dollar corporations or individual people, don't really care about you. You enjoy what is out there, enjoy the past, and hope artists can appeal to you, however, it never is guaranteed. Still tanking the funding of the industry will guarantee a collapse. For the record for OP, you go look at what Japan's recession in the early 90s did to anime. It's not a good thing. I would rather see what the industry can do with continued investment, then implode and be eaten up by China. Fact is for better or worse, the industry has been creatively stagnant for awhile. We could use new genre trends and forms of writing to change up the norms. Ultimately, yeah, Japanese studios, and those involved in the production committee are going to figure out how they can get the most money. Though again, for all your concerns about the evil "WEST" Asia is actually where more of the international funding is coming from. EcchiGodMamster said: Sure and let's not forget, that plenty of people who whine about "woke ass" shows are just homophobic/racist assholes who don't care about intentions. That was pretty obvious when CR was getting mass trolled and attacked for simply funding a Japanese BL manga anime production, and a straight romance about a crossdressing guy. They weren't adapting Western shit, they were adapting works, with stories that are similar to other works, that have been part of this medium for decades. And let's not pretend like there aren't agenda pushers... how many times now have woke ass directors said shit like, " I was trying to show the struggle of being x type of person" or some bullshit no one asked for in their for example, super hero movie I mean I think my limit was when I saw people whining about Ciri's design in Witcher 4, that she was now ugly because of woke reasons. Yeah the average anti woke person is about as much of a self parody as the average extreme SJW. I like good nuanced writing, I won't lie; however, it has been clear to me that a good % of people who whine about woke shit, aren't complaining about the fact the writing sucks and are complaining about the fact "diverse" characters exist in their media at all. A lot of them are unironically sexist, racist, homophobic, and support heinous ideologies and I don't want to associate with that just because I think Marvel or Bioware's writing can be cringe and stupid at times, or because I like tiddy lol. |
BilboBaggins365May 15, 2:00 PM
Reply to deltahalo241
@HokutoMumyoZan Yes, I heard of a similar situation where a Japanese artist liked drawing pictures of black characters because they'd received compliments from black people in the past on their art, only for white supremacists to harrass them online for "falling for the woke agenda" and "betraying Japan"
| @deltahalo241 Diversity has been in this medium for a long time. Any anime fan who thinks otherwise should go watch some older sci fi and mecha anime. When the option to have a more diverse setting is there, creators haven't been reserved about including it. |
Reply to deltahalo241
@HokutoMumyoZan Yes, I heard of a similar situation where a Japanese artist liked drawing pictures of black characters because they'd received compliments from black people in the past on their art, only for white supremacists to harrass them online for "falling for the woke agenda" and "betraying Japan"
| @deltahalo241 I'll take things that never happened for $200 Alex |
Reply to deltahalo241
@HokutoMumyoZan Yes, I heard of a similar situation where a Japanese artist liked drawing pictures of black characters because they'd received compliments from black people in the past on their art, only for white supremacists to harrass them online for "falling for the woke agenda" and "betraying Japan"
@deltahalo241 I remember that happening like a year ago. The "real" anime fans sure did get the grumpies with the Japanese artist who made them. If I didn't know any better I'd say it looked like the "real" fans weren't actually fans at all, and just viewed anime as another weapon in fantasy war against all things that aren't straight, white males. |
|
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@EcchiGodMamster Or, or, or! They could just like dark skinned people. Y'all really think that the only reason people want us in stuff, is for an agenda? Y'all don't think that we're appealing enough for the general audience? Simply because our skin is darker than tan? Really?
LuxuriousHeart said: EcchiGodMamster Or, or, or! They could just like dark skinned people. Y'all really think that the only reason people want us in stuff, is for an agenda? Y'all don't think that we're appealing enough for the general audience? Simply because our skin is darker than tan? Really? ain't no one complaining about "us" in movies.... YES... i said us.... the PROBLEM is when were FORCED into the medium through BULLSHIT like raceswapping... the ONLY REASON (nowadays at least) for them to raceswap a character is to TRY TO NOT LOOK RACIST Or, or, or! make it WAY TOO OBVIOUS that theyr'e trying to make one race look more "evil" than another and the other race look more like a "victim" THAT tends to be the shit that people don't like I'm still waiting for a Static Shock movie, where the hell is that? oh wait... no... we gotta turn white characters black instead... FOH... BilboBaggins365 said: ou can go on here and find fans that think anime died in the 2000s, that anime died in the 90s, that anime died in the 80s and so on. Anime has gotten worse for plenty of people already. I mean I will say, I am kinda disappointed myself that the medium pivoted towards fantasy LN instead of seeing a sci fi rebirth. For a lot of fans anime, died when K-On! and Haruhi released, so what will you say to them? I mean I have encountered Japanese anime fans complaining how Sunrise and anime is dead because Love Live exists, and stopped mecha from being as prevalent as it was in Sunrise's past. uh... who said anime died/was dead? did i say that? BilboBaggins365 said: Sure and let's not forget, that plenty of people who whine about "woke ass" shows are just homophobic/racist assholes who don't care about intentions. That was pretty obvious when CR was getting mass trolled and attacked for simply funding a Japanese BL manga anime production, and a straight romance about a crossdressing guy. They weren't adapting Western shit, they were adapting works, with stories that are similar to other works, that have been part of this medium for decades. except that anime isn't "woke" and doesn't do stupid shit like raceswapping or try to "victimize" specific groups, at least in a shove it in your face way like the west does people complainining about gay/crossdressing/trans manga/anime are probably newer people who don't know shit about the history of manga/anime BilboBaggins365 said: I mean I think my limit was when I saw people whining about Ciri's design in Witcher 4, that she was now ugly because of woke reasons. Yeah the average anti woke person is about as much of a self parody as the average extreme SJW. then why do they make female characters in western video games so ugly now? BilboBaggins365 said: a good % of people who whine about woke shit, aren't complaining about the fact the writing sucks and are complaining about the fact "diverse" characters exist in their media at all. do those people exist? of course but do you HONESTLY THINK theyre ANYWHERE NEAR the majority? do you HONESTLY not believe that MAJORITY of people complaining about "woke shit" just want to see the source material adapted properly? or just don't want to feel like theyre being told how they should think based on how they look??? |
EcchiGodMamsterMay 15, 3:42 PM
|
EcchiGodMamster said: Saying it will get worse over time, is what you asserted. For many, that has already happened, or they would welcome changes. uh... who said anime died/was dead? EcchiGodMamster said: Makoto Yukimura has more woke views than most Western writers I have read of late. Sure his writing usually is nuanced however, he is pretty woke. His views on how violence relate to masculinity is interesting, though I wouldn't agree. except that anime isn't "woke" and doesn't do stupid shit like raceswapping or try to "victimize" specific groups, at least in a shove it in your face way like the west does Again like I have tried to say to many people on this site, Western fiction isn't just Marvel or x big franchise trying to capitalize on the widest audience possible. EcchiGodMamster said: Ciri is not ugly lol. I want to konw what universe you live in where she would be considered "ugly". CD Project Red has made plenty of hot characters, as see in Cyberpunk with Judy, Panam or Aurore Cassel. GTA VI right now is marketing the female's characters assets lol, in their major trailer. Plus, even as someone that likes hot shit, not every character needs to be hot. Plus you can create "hot" content even with those who aren't conventionally attractive too. then why do they make female characters in western video games so ugly now? EcchiGodMamster said: Yeah that is the majority of the "anti woke" crowd, who largely got into anime in the past few years purely because Japan "ain't woke". Which for the record, again nothing wrong with new fans, however, some reasons for enjoying the medium are pretty suspect. True of many "older fans" too. people complainining about gay/crossdressing/trans manga/anime are probably newer people who don't know shit about the history of manga/anime EcchiGodMamster said: Yes. I literally also felt jaded towards many choices in regards to 'woke" writing too and I felt disaffected. I thought the writing was bad, and I thought people had legit concerns, and over the years seeing how people behave on the web, I definitely feel that my opinions are in the minority, as people increasingly become radicalized. but do you HONESTLY THINK theyre ANYWHERE NEAR the majority? Like even on MAL, there a are a few posters on here that jump on anime fighting wokeness who I know are racists or homophobes due to other comments. So yes, my anecdotal experiance, frankly since I made my MAL account on here and other discussions have informed me, that yeah, a lot of people who get heavy into the anti woke stuff are bigots. Maybe not always extreme ones, however, there is some bias there. |
BilboBaggins365May 15, 4:32 PM
| No I want it bigger bigger. Size matters |
| I don't mind the community expanding, but I wish conversations about anime were more critical. Some of the new generations overhype specific shows and this trend has a big influence on communications within the community. I have often seen people talk about the same few anime, and they don't often know what is truly considered a hidden gem. |
 |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
EcchiGodMamster said:
uh... who said anime died/was dead?
Saying it will get worse over time, is what you asserted. For many, that has already happened, or they would welcome changes. uh... who said anime died/was dead?
EcchiGodMamster said:
except that anime isn't "woke" and doesn't do stupid shit like raceswapping or try to "victimize" specific groups, at least in a shove it in your face way like the west does
Makoto Yukimura has more woke views than most Western writers I have read of late. Sure his writing usually is nuanced however, he is pretty woke. His views on how violence relate to masculinity is interesting, though I wouldn't agree. except that anime isn't "woke" and doesn't do stupid shit like raceswapping or try to "victimize" specific groups, at least in a shove it in your face way like the west does
Again like I have tried to say to many people on this site, Western fiction isn't just Marvel or x big franchise trying to capitalize on the widest audience possible.
EcchiGodMamster said:
then why do they make female characters in western video games so ugly now?
Ciri is not ugly lol. I want to konw what universe you live in where she would be considered "ugly". CD Project Red has made plenty of hot characters, as see in Cyberpunk with Judy, Panam or Aurore Cassel. GTA VI right now is marketing the female's characters assets lol, in their major trailer. Plus, even as someone that likes hot shit, not every character needs to be hot. Plus you can create "hot" content even with those who aren't conventionally attractive too. then why do they make female characters in western video games so ugly now?
EcchiGodMamster said:
people complainining about gay/crossdressing/trans manga/anime are probably newer people who don't know shit about the history of manga/anime
Yeah that is the majority of the "anti woke" crowd, who largely got into anime in the past few years purely because Japan "ain't woke". Which for the record, again nothing wrong with new fans, however, some reasons for enjoying the medium are pretty suspect. True of many "older fans" too. people complainining about gay/crossdressing/trans manga/anime are probably newer people who don't know shit about the history of manga/anime
EcchiGodMamster said:
but do you HONESTLY THINK theyre ANYWHERE NEAR the majority?
Yes. I literally also felt jaded towards many choices in regards to 'woke" writing too and I felt disaffected. I thought the writing was bad, and I thought people had legit concerns, and over the years seeing how people behave on the web, I definitely feel that my opinions are in the minority, as people increasingly become radicalized. but do you HONESTLY THINK theyre ANYWHERE NEAR the majority?
Like even on MAL, there a are a few posters on here that jump on anime fighting wokeness who I know are racists or homophobes due to other comments. So yes, my anecdotal experiance, frankly since I made my MAL account on here and other discussions have informed me, that yeah, a lot of people who get heavy into the anti woke stuff are bigots. Maybe not always extreme ones, however, there is some bias there.
BilboBaggins365 said: Makoto Yukimura has more woke views than most Western writers I have read of late. Sure his writing usually is nuanced however, he is pretty woke. His views on how violence relate to masculinity is interesting, though I wouldn't agree. Again like I have tried to say to many people on this site, Western fiction isn't just Marvel or x big franchise trying to capitalize on the widest audience possible. congratulations on being able to name ONE PERSON who is "woke"... although some may consider Miyazaki to be "woke" regardless though, its not necessarily about what is being done, its about HOW its being done that is the problem, so EVEN IF he thinks some woke stuff, doesn't necessarily mean he impliments it in his work or in any way that pisses people off BilboBaggins365 said: Ciri is not ugly lol. I want to konw what universe you live in where she would be considered "ugly". bruh please, looking at her in the Witcher 3 vs Witcher 4, there is an OBVIOUS reason why people DO NOT like the change they made to her face while i wouldn't say shes necessarily "ugly", they DEFINTELY made her look older and gave her a more square jaw, which is what people DON'T WANT comparing MJ in that Spiderman game is another obvious example i never said they were ugly in EVERY GAME, but theres a clear push to make them "less sexy" BilboBaggins365 said: Yeah that is the majority of the "anti woke" crowd, who largely got into anime in the past few years purely because Japan "ain't woke". Which for the record, again nothing wrong with new fans, however, some reasons for enjoying the medium are pretty suspect. True of many "older fans" too. again, do these people exist? YES are they wrong? YES are they the majority??? uh... NO BilboBaggins365 said: es. I literally also felt jaded towards many choices in regards to 'woke" writing too and I felt disaffected. I thought the writing was bad, and I thought people had legit concerns, and over the years seeing how people behave on the web, I definitely feel that my opinions are in the minority, as people increasingly become radicalized. Like even on MAL, there a are a few posters on here that jump on anime fighting wokeness who I know are racists or homophobes due to other comments. So yes, my anecdotal experiance, frankly since I made my MAL account on here and other discussions have informed me, that yeah, a lot of people who get heavy into the anti woke stuff are bigots. Maybe not always extreme ones, however, there is some bias there. i don't know how long you've been part of the anime community, but these people ARE NOT the majority, finding a bunch of them online doesn't mean shit. again, these are people who are newer and don't know shit about manga/anime history so their opinions shouldn't even matter THE PROBLEM IS, when it comes to THE OPPOSITE SIDE... they actually get listened to when it comes to media, despite ALSO being a minority |
EcchiGodMamsterMay 15, 5:44 PM
|
| the entire point of "Gatekeeping" is to preserve what makes something special, or what made something iconic NOT to "shit on new people" or "make you feel unwelcome" or "elitism" fans... at least hardcore fans of something, DO NOT want to let in people who might possibly want to screw over, cuck, disrespect or ruin a hobby/medium aka change it to something it wasn't before thats why you may get tested when entering a fandom |
EcchiGodMamsterMay 15, 6:06 PM
|
| I was actually hoping for the anime community to grow. Who would want it to shrink? |
| I'm a bit confused by the opening statement, you think it should be afterwards rather than before? |
 |
Reply to KittenCuddler
@deltahalo241 I remember that happening like a year ago. The "real" anime fans sure did get the grumpies with the Japanese artist who made them. If I didn't know any better I'd say it looked like the "real" fans weren't actually fans at all, and just viewed anime as another weapon in fantasy war against all things that aren't straight, white males.
| @KittenCuddler Christians who don't know about afro samurai |
| Another thread devolved to "muh evil racist white straight men" from the same culprit as usual no less, and more Christian bashing from OP yet again, what a surprise. |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas |
| Nah, i dont know why anyone would want a smaller community, wouldnt it be better if you have more people to talk to? more people to share your interest with? |
| @deltahalo241 lol one person questioning whether or not an account is actually Japanese ≠ "Muh white supremacy" Especially when larping idiots like Col Otaku Gatekeeper and Unseen Japan exist. |
billybubMay 16, 5:15 AM
Reply to derangedx29
What's up with all of these nazis in the fanbase anyways? You even see the Kanye/Hitler fans on this site. There's a reason you gatekeep. But sure. I'm the bad guy over the gen z Christian Nazis
| OP when we dont wanna treat OG watchers like a saint, gate keep anime and kill off a whole generation: derangedx29 said: But sure. I'm the bad guy over the gen z Christian Nazis |
CGDMay 16, 5:32 AM
Reply to EcchiGodMamster
LuxuriousHeart said:
EcchiGodMamster Or, or, or! They could just like dark skinned people. Y'all really think that the only reason people want us in stuff, is for an agenda? Y'all don't think that we're appealing enough for the general audience? Simply because our skin is darker than tan? Really?
EcchiGodMamster Or, or, or! They could just like dark skinned people. Y'all really think that the only reason people want us in stuff, is for an agenda? Y'all don't think that we're appealing enough for the general audience? Simply because our skin is darker than tan? Really?
ain't no one complaining about "us" in movies.... YES... i said us....
the PROBLEM is when were FORCED into the medium through BULLSHIT like raceswapping... the ONLY REASON (nowadays at least) for them to raceswap a character is to TRY TO NOT LOOK RACIST
Or, or, or!
make it WAY TOO OBVIOUS that theyr'e trying to make one race look more "evil" than another and the other race look more like a "victim"
THAT tends to be the shit that people don't like
I'm still waiting for a Static Shock movie, where the hell is that? oh wait... no... we gotta turn white characters black instead... FOH...
BilboBaggins365 said:
ou can go on here and find fans that think anime died in the 2000s, that anime died in the 90s, that anime died in the 80s and so on. Anime has gotten worse for plenty of people already. I mean I will say, I am kinda disappointed myself that the medium pivoted towards fantasy LN instead of seeing a sci fi rebirth. For a lot of fans anime, died when K-On! and Haruhi released, so what will you say to them? I mean I have encountered Japanese anime fans complaining how Sunrise and anime is dead because Love Live exists, and stopped mecha from being as prevalent as it was in Sunrise's past.
ou can go on here and find fans that think anime died in the 2000s, that anime died in the 90s, that anime died in the 80s and so on. Anime has gotten worse for plenty of people already. I mean I will say, I am kinda disappointed myself that the medium pivoted towards fantasy LN instead of seeing a sci fi rebirth. For a lot of fans anime, died when K-On! and Haruhi released, so what will you say to them? I mean I have encountered Japanese anime fans complaining how Sunrise and anime is dead because Love Live exists, and stopped mecha from being as prevalent as it was in Sunrise's past.
uh... who said anime died/was dead?
did i say that?
BilboBaggins365 said:
Sure and let's not forget, that plenty of people who whine about "woke ass" shows are just homophobic/racist assholes who don't care about intentions. That was pretty obvious when CR was getting mass trolled and attacked for simply funding a Japanese BL manga anime production, and a straight romance about a crossdressing guy. They weren't adapting Western shit, they were adapting works, with stories that are similar to other works, that have been part of this medium for decades.
Sure and let's not forget, that plenty of people who whine about "woke ass" shows are just homophobic/racist assholes who don't care about intentions. That was pretty obvious when CR was getting mass trolled and attacked for simply funding a Japanese BL manga anime production, and a straight romance about a crossdressing guy. They weren't adapting Western shit, they were adapting works, with stories that are similar to other works, that have been part of this medium for decades.
except that anime isn't "woke" and doesn't do stupid shit like raceswapping or try to "victimize" specific groups, at least in a shove it in your face way like the west does
people complainining about gay/crossdressing/trans manga/anime are probably newer people who don't know shit about the history of manga/anime
BilboBaggins365 said:
I mean I think my limit was when I saw people whining about Ciri's design in Witcher 4, that she was now ugly because of woke reasons. Yeah the average anti woke person is about as much of a self parody as the average extreme SJW.
I mean I think my limit was when I saw people whining about Ciri's design in Witcher 4, that she was now ugly because of woke reasons. Yeah the average anti woke person is about as much of a self parody as the average extreme SJW.
then why do they make female characters in western video games so ugly now?
BilboBaggins365 said:
a good % of people who whine about woke shit, aren't complaining about the fact the writing sucks and are complaining about the fact "diverse" characters exist in their media at all.
a good % of people who whine about woke shit, aren't complaining about the fact the writing sucks and are complaining about the fact "diverse" characters exist in their media at all.
do those people exist?
of course
but do you HONESTLY THINK theyre ANYWHERE NEAR the majority?
do you HONESTLY not believe that MAJORITY of people complaining about "woke shit" just want to see the source material adapted properly? or just don't want to feel like theyre being told how they should think based on how they look???
| @EcchiGodMamster Raceswapping has been a thing for a long time. The thing is, people only care when people are raceswapped to black/brown. On Netflix, the app that people think is just mega woke, had a Latina character played by a white woman. The Show was On My Block. Disney, yes the corporation that people say is mega woke, had that same actress playing a Latina character on one of their shows; the show was called Stuck in the Middle. No one gave a shit, btw. Then we look at the past. The Wiz and Cinderella were race swapped and no one cared. There are games that are famous for having skins that race swap characters. Fighting games are infamous for this, but Paladins and Smite do the same thing as well. A famous example is Aphrodite having a 70s themed skin called "Aphrodite" where they give her dark skin and an afro. Then there was Bastet. A brown skinned Egyptian goddess, that they reskinned several times. To a white woman and to a Japanese woman. Then there was Nu Wa. Nu Wa is an Asian goddess, Chinese in particular, who wss race swapped to a white woman, German in particular, for her Oktoberfest skin. No one cared. People only care in certain situations. EcchiGodMamster said: then why do they make female characters in western video games so ugly now? This is not true for every game. Paladins, Friday the 13th, Smite, Fortnite, Overwatch, etc. Fortnite has ironically been criticized for only having thin and attractive characters. Even when they added Peter Griffin, they made him skinnier. Friday the 13th is literally a game you can either play as Jason slaughtering the horny teen counselors, or play as teen counselors. They ironically aged down some of the adult characters to make them teens. This was very obvious with Victoria, Fox, and Mitch. EcchiGodMamster said: do you HONESTLY not believe that MAJORITY of people complaining about "woke shit" just want to see the source material adapted properly? or just don't want to feel like theyre being told how they should think based on how they look??? They've been complaining about original content featuring black characters, btw. |
Reply to billybub
@deltahalo241 lol one person questioning whether or not an account is actually Japanese ≠ "Muh white supremacy" Especially when larping idiots like Col Otaku Gatekeeper and Unseen Japan exist.
| @billybub there were more comments then that. It was a legit cesspool. Simplu because an Asian guy wanted to draw a black person. |
| Don't stress over it. There are hundreds of millions of people watching anime today and nothing is going to change that fact. Nothing you can do about it and you don't need to interact with a community to like something. Just watch anime and move on with your day. |
LuxuriousHeart said: Raceswapping has been a thing for a long time did you miss the part where i said (nowadays at least)??? I'm obviously talking about in the age of social media "woke" content has obviously ALWAYS existed... but whether or not its actually "woke" is a matter of WHY it exists LuxuriousHeart said: had a Latina character played by a white woman also "Latin" comes from Europe, so techincally latin = white but i know you mean "hispanic" and the problem there is that "hispanic" people can also technically be white... or black... or mixed with whatever... so i can find something like that "understandable"... not that i know who you're talking about LuxuriousHeart said: This is not true for every game. i didn't say it was, but theres still an obvious agenda in many game franchises now to make the female characters ugly or at least less sexy LuxuriousHeart said: They've been complaining about original content featuring black characters, btw. well it COULD BE racism OR it could be just be push back against you know... I'm not gonna go there... this is about anime derangedx29 said: @CGD conversations with anime fans were far more chill and rational back in the old days. You wouldn't understand the 2000s era of anime where there wasn't any culture war, complaints of fanservice etc. oh these things DID exist... these people just didn't have the voice they have now :/ |
EcchiGodMamsterMay 16, 8:07 AM
|
Reply to EcchiGodMamster
LuxuriousHeart said:
Raceswapping has been a thing for a long time
Raceswapping has been a thing for a long time
did you miss the part where i said (nowadays at least)???
I'm obviously talking about in the age of social media
"woke" content has obviously ALWAYS existed... but whether or not its actually "woke" is a matter of WHY it exists
LuxuriousHeart said:
had a Latina character played by a white woman
had a Latina character played by a white woman
also "Latin" comes from Europe, so techincally latin = white
but i know you mean "hispanic" and the problem there is that "hispanic" people can also technically be white... or black... or mixed with whatever... so i can find something like that "understandable"... not that i know who you're talking about
LuxuriousHeart said:
This is not true for every game.
This is not true for every game.
i didn't say it was, but theres still an obvious agenda in many game franchises now to make the female characters ugly or at least less sexy
LuxuriousHeart said:
They've been complaining about original content featuring black characters, btw.
They've been complaining about original content featuring black characters, btw.
well it COULD BE racism OR it could be just be push back against you know... I'm not gonna go there... this is about anime
derangedx29 said:
@CGD conversations with anime fans were far more chill and rational back in the old days. You wouldn't understand the 2000s era of anime where there wasn't any culture war, complaints of fanservice etc.
@CGD conversations with anime fans were far more chill and rational back in the old days. You wouldn't understand the 2000s era of anime where there wasn't any culture war, complaints of fanservice etc.
oh these things DID exist... these people just didn't have the voice they have now :/
| @EcchiGodMamster It was woke back then. The thing is, we didn't hve grifters on social media telling people that it was bad. No one cared back then. We simply watched shows or we didn't watch them. No one complained endlessly on the internet. On my Block was definitely not supposed to be a white Hispanic person. They just didn't really care. Netflix isn't as woke as people make them seem. They're Capitalists, not woke. They have a lot of diverse works to bring in audiences. People naturally want to see themselves on the screen, and they want to bring in audiences. Though if you actually analyze Netflix practices and look a bit past the surface, you'll see that they're anti-woke. Same with Disney. Heck, the live action Winx remake on Netflix raceswapped an Asian girl to a white girl, and they had the black fairy have no character outside of being a pseudo mammy figure for the MC. The only other black person is a guy, and his entire chatacter revolves around a white guy. That's anti-woke when you think about it. Though because it has black and gay people, it would be called woke. Disney ruined Lab Rats because they didn't want to give the black boy a raise. But sure... Disney is the most woke company of all... Not really for the games. Most Western games didn't even have playable female characters. It was mostly male playable characters. The Japanese games were progressive on that front. Western games did have some, and I enjoyed them, but most of their games had men. It was actually why I mostly played Japanese games growing up. Fortnite, Overwatch, Friday the 13th, Dead by Daylight (?), League of Legends, Paladins, Smite, and Valorant are Western games with attractive characters. It's not much different than back in the day. Back in the day, the "ugly" female video game protagonists would've just been men. Western made games that I know of with playable female characters were: - Tomb Raider - Fighting Force - Jet Force Gemini - Excite Bikes - Mortal Kombat Those are what I think of, top of my head. There's more Western games with attractive female protagonists nowadays. The West is catching up with Japan here. Same with anime. Anime has always had queer characters. The West was the one censoring them. Berserk had an interracial relationship as the main relationship. Anthy x Utena are both Asian, but Anthy is Indian and Utena is Japanese. Plus, Anthy x Utena are lesbians. Berserk came out in the 80s and Utena came out in the 90s. It's the West that's catching up with Japan. The only aspect where the West us more progressive than Japan, is with black people. They've had black characters for a long time over here. The 90s was a Renaissance for black shows and films. Japan has yet to have something like that. And that's obviously the reason the anti-woke people are obsessed with Japan. |
"back then" had alot more justification than "now" LuxuriousHeart said: we didn't hve grifters on social media telling people that it was bad. No one cared back then. We simply watched shows or we didn't watch them. No one complained endlessly on the internet. it's no that "no one cared" its that without widespread social media, people who cared didn't have a voice, which has ofc been a double edge sword LuxuriousHeart said: On my Block was definitely not supposed to be a white Hispanic person. They just didn't really care. Netflix isn't as woke as people make them seem. They're Capitalists, not woke. They have a lot of diverse works to bring in audiences. People naturally want to see themselves on the screen, and they want to bring in audiences. Though if you actually analyze Netflix practices and look a bit past the surface, you'll see that they're anti-woke. Same with Disney. Heck, the live action Winx remake on Netflix raceswapped an Asian girl to a white girl, and they had the black fairy have no character outside of being a pseudo mammy figure for the MC. The only other black person is a guy, and his entire chatacter revolves around a white guy. That's anti-woke when you think about it. Though because it has black and gay people, it would be called woke. Disney ruined Lab Rats because they didn't want to give the black boy a raise. But sure... Disney is the most woke company of all... i don't know what to tell other than people want to see things adapted accurately to the source material congratualations on being able to point out a show or 2 that did this or that, that doesn't mean Disney isn't woke, when they have so many examples like the nigga merm... i mean, Little Mermaid and Tan Brow... i mean Snow White LuxuriousHeart said: Not really for the games. Most Western games didn't even have playable female characters. It was mostly male playable characters. The Japanese games were progressive on that front. Western games did have some, and I enjoyed them, but most of their games had men. It was actually why I mostly played Japanese games growing up. Fortnite, Overwatch, Friday the 13th, Dead by Daylight (?), League of Legends, Paladins, Smite, and Valorant are Western games with attractive characters. It's not much different than back in the day. Back in the day, the "ugly" female video game protagonists would've just been men. Western made games that I know of with playable female characters were: - Tomb Raider - Fighting Force - Jet Force Gemini - Excite Bikes - Mortal Kombat i don't understand why you're going into the "history" of western female video game characters as if i somehow don't know about them... i was a child when Tom Raider and Mortal Kombat were new.... I KNOW... I'm talking about NOWADAYS.... speaking of Mortal Kombat and Tomb Raider... BOTH FRANCHISES have since DESEXUALIZED the female characters... the girls in the latest MK are covered up and in the Tomb Raider "anime", shes borderline androgynous LuxuriousHeart said: Those are what I think of, top of my head. There's more Western games with attractive female protagonists nowadays. The West is catching up with Japan here. name some recent games (no indie doesn't count) LuxuriousHeart said: Same with anime. Anime has always had queer characters. The West was the one censoring them. Berserk had an interracial relationship as the main relationship. Anthy x Utena are both Asian, but Anthy is Indian and Utena is Japanese. Plus, Anthy x Utena are lesbians. Berserk came out in the 80s and Utena came out in the 90s. It's the West that's catching up with Japan. The only aspect where the West us more progressive than Japan, is with black people. They've had black characters for a long time over here. The 90s was a Renaissance for black shows and films. Japan has yet to have something like that. And that's obviously the reason the anti-woke people are obsessed with Japan. i know the history of anime and yes i know the history of shoujo manga, did i say anything against this? and um.. yes.. i definitely know the history of black entertainment... i don't know why the fuck you expect Japan to increase black representation... when were less than 1% of their population and they have no real history with us |
EcchiGodMamsterMay 16, 11:09 AM
|
Reply to billybub
@deltahalo241 lol one person questioning whether or not an account is actually Japanese ≠ "Muh white supremacy" Especially when larping idiots like Col Otaku Gatekeeper and Unseen Japan exist.
| @billybub I think it's best we not mention his name very often, but C.O.G. is such an obvious larper. Every single thing he posts is a red flag. I remember he even once posted about how he "beat Super Mario World for the first time", and posted a fake ending screen with Toadette. |
Reply to deltahalo241
@derangedx29 Ironically enough I'd say this thread is actually a pretty good example of why there are so many nazis in the fanbase. You've already got a group that's highly paranoid of any "outside influence" it doesn't take much for a neo-nazi to infiltrate the space and start suggesting "problem groups" and trying to convince everyone that it's a targeted attack against them and their favourite past-time. The fact that anime is from Japan and thus from one of the old Axis powers and that Japan is a largely homogeneous society is just the cherry on top for them.
| @deltahalo241 Nazis themselves are a problem group. Even in WWII, they were planning to double cross Japan in the end. |
Reply to ForgotEyeWasHere
@billybub I think it's best we not mention his name very often, but C.O.G. is such an obvious larper. Every single thing he posts is a red flag. I remember he even once posted about how he "beat Super Mario World for the first time", and posted a fake ending screen with Toadette.
| @ForgotEyeWasHere Dudes a clown as is Unseen Japan. Which is why questioning an whether or not an account is actually Japanese is not "White Supremacy". Shit 2 prominent conservative Japanese accounts were just accused of being Larpers in the past few weeks(おはよまいぶらざ and Yoko) both blue check actual Japanese accounts. But I guess that's different too some people |
| Meanwhile I am waiting for someone to add Puff Diddy to the database. |
EcchiGodMamster said: There are definitely more works out there, that have socialist leanings or are "woke". You wouldn't be able to show an anime like Wandering Son in the West, without parents wanting to lynch the creator for being "woke". I don't usually investigate the political leanings of all the creators I read/watch. All I know is that hey Yukimura is pretty woke, and widely loved in this community whereas the evil woke West's favourite sci fi author right now is a typical Catholic. congratulations on being able to name ONE PERSON who is "woke"... although some may consider Miyazaki to be "woke" Also Miyazaki? Oh super woke. Like I hate him for his horrific politics. Pretty sure people would call for people. to burn the books of Western creators who said Hebdo deserved what he got. Though yeah, it's not usually obviously apparent in his fiction, though some stuff is there. EcchiGodMamster said: Yeah they don't touch grass that is why. Like normally, I don't like overly annoying moral puritans that jump on people for simply liking characters to look like models, that said, I empathized with your average sex negative feminist in that moment. The guys bitching about that were absolutely pathetic and a shame to our sex everywhere. bruh please, looking at her in the Witcher 3 vs Witcher 4, there is an OBVIOUS reason why people DO NOT like the change they made to her face EcchiGodMamster said: Yeah......cause the story takes place years after the third game. Shocker, women age, and in your dark fantasy game, not eternal youth anime waifu universe, it's okay to show a hot women getting older and still largely looking hot lol. Plus again the art direction at best (I really don't think there is a substantial change) is trying to make Ciri look more intimidating, as you know she is the main MC. It's not the West hates hot women....which again....you are on meth if you think that model isn't highly conventionally attractive. they DEFINTELY made her look older and gave her a more square jaw, which is what people DON'T WANT EcchiGodMamster said: CD a company, that decided to put in a Johnny/Alt BJ scene for no apparent reason, is concerned about being less sexy lol. Go find a JRPG that isn't a straight up hentai game (which the West is better at too) that would do something like that. Like you complain about Tomb Raider not being as sexy which is just one game. Again, the right had a meltdown over the Mass Effect scenes, which are super tame, compared to what CD threw out in their RPGs. Those games got way more sexy than the vast majority of stuff you would have seen released in the 2000s or 90s. i never said they were ugly in EVERY GAME, but theres a clear push to make them "less sexy" Again, you guys focus on a few major examples, you ignore the indie market and frankly a lot of big AAA games too. Plus.....it's okay for not every video game/character in general to not be traditionally attractive. I only push for the freedom of artists to have characters be conventionally attractive. IDC if they decide not too. Plus you still can be sexy even with less traditional archetypes for both men or women for that matter. In your opinion, which you are free to have. In my anecdotal experience, there is a lot of soft bigotry there. I am not saying they are all stahlhelm wearing, gay bashing Nazis however, there is a pattern to what a lot of people consider "political" and where it isn't. It's not just about the writing, for someone like me it is, for others it really is the inclusion angle they don't like. EcchiGodMamster said: Again based on what? I have been watching anime since I was a kid in the mid 2000s, and I was reading YouTube comments about anime since the early 2010s. Toxic assholes existed, and yeah I would say there are more than ever right now, because of the intensification of the culture war in the nerdy/geek space. i don't know how long you've been part of the anime community, but these people ARE NOT the majority, finding a bunch of them online doesn't mean shit. Still again, OP is talking about casual fans. The reality is most anime fans don't participate in the community. Honestly as someone who largely didn't participate for most of his fandom, that probably is the smart move, even if I have found good friends, gonna be honest a lot of anime fans aren't very sympathetic. EcchiGodMamster said: This thread is saying that you should "gatekeep" (literally doesn't exist but whatever) new fans, if they don't matter why bother caring about them at all? Anyway I don't just buy it's just new fans, there are a lot of toxic older fans too. People making fun of LGBT characters/themes has been a common thing thrown at anime/JRPGs/Weeb culture by many supposed "fans" in the West. Even back in the late 2000s, I remember lol. these are people who are newer and don't know shit about manga/anime history so their opinions shouldn't even matter EcchiGodMamster said: True with Europe though too? I mean we have history with them, granted not all positive lol.Regardless, we get plenty of white characters, and again black rep, which hey I have to tell tons of leftists who complain about a lack of representation it isn't a new thing. Honestly if your sci fi universe isn't somewhat diverse, I do question why. Ultimately, if the writing is bad you focus on the writing however, people love to focus on the identity aspect. If you actually don't care about identity politics you criticize people who engage it, you don't go full fledge into it yourself. i don't know why the fuck you expect Japan to increase black representation... when were less than 1% of their population and they have no real history with us Like again, I remember seeing "anti woke" people bitch about MHA having a black dude living Japan, working as a super hero with a Japanese wife. Yeah again tell me what agenda those people have lol? derangedx29 said: Maybe I was too late; however, in the late 2000s... people were definitely bitching about how much ecchi anime was coming out. I rememberr people bashing Fairy Tail relentlessly for that, when it was still new. You wouldn't understand the 2000s era of anime where there wasn't any culture war, complaints of fanservice etc. |
BilboBaggins365May 16, 5:24 PM
Reply to EcchiGodMamster
"back then" had alot more justification than "now"
LuxuriousHeart said:
we didn't hve grifters on social media telling people that it was bad. No one cared back then. We simply watched shows or we didn't watch them. No one complained endlessly on the internet.
we didn't hve grifters on social media telling people that it was bad. No one cared back then. We simply watched shows or we didn't watch them. No one complained endlessly on the internet.
it's no that "no one cared"
its that without widespread social media, people who cared didn't have a voice, which has ofc been a double edge sword
LuxuriousHeart said:
On my Block was definitely not supposed to be a white Hispanic person. They just didn't really care. Netflix isn't as woke as people make them seem. They're Capitalists, not woke. They have a lot of diverse works to bring in audiences. People naturally want to see themselves on the screen, and they want to bring in audiences. Though if you actually analyze Netflix practices and look a bit past the surface, you'll see that they're anti-woke. Same with Disney. Heck, the live action Winx remake on Netflix raceswapped an Asian girl to a white girl, and they had the black fairy have no character outside of being a pseudo mammy figure for the MC. The only other black person is a guy, and his entire chatacter revolves around a white guy. That's anti-woke when you think about it. Though because it has black and gay people, it would be called woke. Disney ruined Lab Rats because they didn't want to give the black boy a raise. But sure... Disney is the most woke company of all...
On my Block was definitely not supposed to be a white Hispanic person. They just didn't really care. Netflix isn't as woke as people make them seem. They're Capitalists, not woke. They have a lot of diverse works to bring in audiences. People naturally want to see themselves on the screen, and they want to bring in audiences. Though if you actually analyze Netflix practices and look a bit past the surface, you'll see that they're anti-woke. Same with Disney. Heck, the live action Winx remake on Netflix raceswapped an Asian girl to a white girl, and they had the black fairy have no character outside of being a pseudo mammy figure for the MC. The only other black person is a guy, and his entire chatacter revolves around a white guy. That's anti-woke when you think about it. Though because it has black and gay people, it would be called woke. Disney ruined Lab Rats because they didn't want to give the black boy a raise. But sure... Disney is the most woke company of all...
i don't know what to tell other than people want to see things adapted accurately to the source material
congratualations on being able to point out a show or 2 that did this or that, that doesn't mean Disney isn't woke, when they have so many examples like the nigga merm... i mean, Little Mermaid and Tan Brow... i mean Snow White
LuxuriousHeart said:
Not really for the games. Most Western games didn't even have playable female characters. It was mostly male playable characters. The Japanese games were progressive on that front. Western games did have some, and I enjoyed them, but most of their games had men. It was actually why I mostly played Japanese games growing up. Fortnite, Overwatch, Friday the 13th, Dead by Daylight (?), League of Legends, Paladins, Smite, and Valorant are Western games with attractive characters. It's not much different than back in the day. Back in the day, the "ugly" female video game protagonists would've just been men. Western made games that I know of with playable female characters were:
- Tomb Raider
- Fighting Force
- Jet Force Gemini
- Excite Bikes
- Mortal Kombat
Not really for the games. Most Western games didn't even have playable female characters. It was mostly male playable characters. The Japanese games were progressive on that front. Western games did have some, and I enjoyed them, but most of their games had men. It was actually why I mostly played Japanese games growing up. Fortnite, Overwatch, Friday the 13th, Dead by Daylight (?), League of Legends, Paladins, Smite, and Valorant are Western games with attractive characters. It's not much different than back in the day. Back in the day, the "ugly" female video game protagonists would've just been men. Western made games that I know of with playable female characters were:
- Tomb Raider
- Fighting Force
- Jet Force Gemini
- Excite Bikes
- Mortal Kombat
i don't understand why you're going into the "history" of western female video game characters as if i somehow don't know about them... i was a child when Tom Raider and Mortal Kombat were new.... I KNOW...
I'm talking about NOWADAYS....
speaking of Mortal Kombat and Tomb Raider... BOTH FRANCHISES have since DESEXUALIZED the female characters... the girls in the latest MK are covered up and in the Tomb Raider "anime", shes borderline androgynous
LuxuriousHeart said:
Those are what I think of, top of my head. There's more Western games with attractive female protagonists nowadays. The West is catching up with Japan here.
Those are what I think of, top of my head. There's more Western games with attractive female protagonists nowadays. The West is catching up with Japan here.
name some recent games (no indie doesn't count)
LuxuriousHeart said:
Same with anime. Anime has always had queer characters. The West was the one censoring them. Berserk had an interracial relationship as the main relationship. Anthy x Utena are both Asian, but Anthy is Indian and Utena is Japanese. Plus, Anthy x Utena are lesbians. Berserk came out in the 80s and Utena came out in the 90s. It's the West that's catching up with Japan. The only aspect where the West us more progressive than Japan, is with black people. They've had black characters for a long time over here. The 90s was a Renaissance for black shows and films. Japan has yet to have something like that. And that's obviously the reason the anti-woke people are obsessed with Japan.
Same with anime. Anime has always had queer characters. The West was the one censoring them. Berserk had an interracial relationship as the main relationship. Anthy x Utena are both Asian, but Anthy is Indian and Utena is Japanese. Plus, Anthy x Utena are lesbians. Berserk came out in the 80s and Utena came out in the 90s. It's the West that's catching up with Japan. The only aspect where the West us more progressive than Japan, is with black people. They've had black characters for a long time over here. The 90s was a Renaissance for black shows and films. Japan has yet to have something like that. And that's obviously the reason the anti-woke people are obsessed with Japan.
i know the history of anime and yes i know the history of shoujo manga, did i say anything against this?
and um.. yes.. i definitely know the history of black entertainment... i don't know why the fuck you expect Japan to increase black representation... when were less than 1% of their population and they have no real history with us
| @EcchiGodMamster There wasn't much justification, just like now. People just didn't care. Even now, people fondly remember the woke shows/movies. Because as kids, they didn't care. Once again, grifters convinced people to care. Even when the Internet and forums were invented, people didn't endlessly complain. The complaints started once Gamergate became a thing. That started when a guy got dumped by a girl who worked in the industry, and it snowballed from there. Using the n word, but claiming you're not racist? Yikes... And it was more than those two movies btw. Wasn't Tomb Raider owned by Square Enix at one point? A Japanese company? Overwatch, League of Legends, Valorant, and Fortnite aren't indie games. I wouldn't even consider Friday the 13th, Smite, or Paladins as an indie game. AA games are what I'd consider them, since they have a decent size work crew. Don't Starve is what I'd consider an indie game. I bring up black representation, because that's the reason people are pivoting to anime. Anime back then was a liberal thing, since anime actually had queer characters and strong women. The men were pretty boys that the Western audience considered feminine. It only flipped when black people started appearing in more mainstream shows and movies, along with games. Racism is why the right pivoted to anime. It's also the reason why YOU pivoted to anime, btw. |
BilboBaggins365 said: Maybe I was too late; however, in the late 2000s... people were definitely bitching about how much ecchi anime was coming out. I rememberr people bashing Fairy Tail relentlessly for that, when it was still new. Anime was largely a thing for the left. It was considered weird. America in particular was rather homophobic and really into masculinity. The feminine pretty boys, the gay characters, etc., were a turn off. Naruto was mocked by non-anime fans as gay. Anime was seen as something for the freaks. Anime gained popularity for the right due to counterculture. Western content got more diverse with not just queer characters, but also with black/brown characters. People went to anime to avoid the diversity in mainstream works. Even if anime was queer and feminist at times, it still had mostly pale skinned characters that they could pretend are white. |
EcchiGodMamster said: the entire point of "Gatekeeping" is to preserve what makes something special, or what made something iconic I don't know why it would be bad for more people to consume anime. Supply of anime is positive-sum, not zero-sum, there is such a thing as fractionalization. When more people of different priorities get on a medium, what usually happens is they form different sub-communities (it's wrong to even call it sub, they're communities), and both stuff gets made in the medium. Example: first eroge predates first otome or first BLVN, meaning otome and BLVN fans arrived later to the Visual Novel medium. And they came in without wanting to consume the pre-existing things but rather request different things to be made that the og fans wouldn't like. What happened is not the removal of eroge, just the other stuff also existing. Plus, regardless of whether it's bad or good, it is impractical to stop it. Even if you shun new fans who want different things, they'll go to a different digital space like say, AniList, that aligns with them, and form their community there, and still buy stuff they like (to the extent that any Western fan buys stuff) influencing positively the type of work they want to see more of. |
 |
| Nope. 10 years ago wasn't a great time to be an anime fan, with how niche the hobby was where I lived, and having no so little people to talk to about your hobby can be quite depressing. I'm happy with how more "normie" anime has become, both as a medium and a hobby. |
"Nobody could laugh at someone who's trying their hardest" -Machio- |
| @derangedx29 GOOD! in fact east asia is cool for not immediately falling to Abrahamisms. also sharty is a pedo website |
   |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
EcchiGodMamster said:
congratulations on being able to name ONE PERSON who is "woke"... although some may consider Miyazaki to be "woke"
There are definitely more works out there, that have socialist leanings or are "woke". You wouldn't be able to show an anime like Wandering Son in the West, without parents wanting to lynch the creator for being "woke". I don't usually investigate the political leanings of all the creators I read/watch. All I know is that hey Yukimura is pretty woke, and widely loved in this community whereas the evil woke West's favourite sci fi author right now is a typical Catholic. congratulations on being able to name ONE PERSON who is "woke"... although some may consider Miyazaki to be "woke"
Also Miyazaki? Oh super woke. Like I hate him for his horrific politics. Pretty sure people would call for people. to burn the books of Western creators who said Hebdo deserved what he got. Though yeah, it's not usually obviously apparent in his fiction, though some stuff is there.
EcchiGodMamster said:
bruh please, looking at her in the Witcher 3 vs Witcher 4, there is an OBVIOUS reason why people DO NOT like the change they made to her face
Yeah they don't touch grass that is why. Like normally, I don't like overly annoying moral puritans that jump on people for simply liking characters to look like models, that said, I empathized with your average sex negative feminist in that moment. The guys bitching about that were absolutely pathetic and a shame to our sex everywhere. bruh please, looking at her in the Witcher 3 vs Witcher 4, there is an OBVIOUS reason why people DO NOT like the change they made to her face
EcchiGodMamster said:
they DEFINTELY made her look older and gave her a more square jaw, which is what people DON'T WANT
Yeah......cause the story takes place years after the third game. Shocker, women age, and in your dark fantasy game, not eternal youth anime waifu universe, it's okay to show a hot women getting older and still largely looking hot lol. Plus again the art direction at best (I really don't think there is a substantial change) is trying to make Ciri look more intimidating, as you know she is the main MC. It's not the West hates hot women....which again....you are on meth if you think that model isn't highly conventionally attractive. they DEFINTELY made her look older and gave her a more square jaw, which is what people DON'T WANT
EcchiGodMamster said:
i never said they were ugly in EVERY GAME, but theres a clear push to make them "less sexy"
CD a company, that decided to put in a Johnny/Alt BJ scene for no apparent reason, is concerned about being less sexy lol. Go find a JRPG that isn't a straight up hentai game (which the West is better at too) that would do something like that. Like you complain about Tomb Raider not being as sexy which is just one game. Again, the right had a meltdown over the Mass Effect scenes, which are super tame, compared to what CD threw out in their RPGs. Those games got way more sexy than the vast majority of stuff you would have seen released in the 2000s or 90s. i never said they were ugly in EVERY GAME, but theres a clear push to make them "less sexy"
Again, you guys focus on a few major examples, you ignore the indie market and frankly a lot of big AAA games too. Plus.....it's okay for not every video game/character in general to not be traditionally attractive. I only push for the freedom of artists to have characters be conventionally attractive. IDC if they decide not too. Plus you still can be sexy even with less traditional archetypes for both men or women for that matter.
In your opinion, which you are free to have. In my anecdotal experience, there is a lot of soft bigotry there. I am not saying they are all stahlhelm wearing, gay bashing Nazis however, there is a pattern to what a lot of people consider "political" and where it isn't. It's not just about the writing, for someone like me it is, for others it really is the inclusion angle they don't like.
EcchiGodMamster said:
i don't know how long you've been part of the anime community, but these people ARE NOT the majority, finding a bunch of them online doesn't mean shit.
Again based on what? I have been watching anime since I was a kid in the mid 2000s, and I was reading YouTube comments about anime since the early 2010s. Toxic assholes existed, and yeah I would say there are more than ever right now, because of the intensification of the culture war in the nerdy/geek space. i don't know how long you've been part of the anime community, but these people ARE NOT the majority, finding a bunch of them online doesn't mean shit.
Still again, OP is talking about casual fans. The reality is most anime fans don't participate in the community. Honestly as someone who largely didn't participate for most of his fandom, that probably is the smart move, even if I have found good friends, gonna be honest a lot of anime fans aren't very sympathetic.
EcchiGodMamster said:
these are people who are newer and don't know shit about manga/anime history so their opinions shouldn't even matter
This thread is saying that you should "gatekeep" (literally doesn't exist but whatever) new fans, if they don't matter why bother caring about them at all? Anyway I don't just buy it's just new fans, there are a lot of toxic older fans too. People making fun of LGBT characters/themes has been a common thing thrown at anime/JRPGs/Weeb culture by many supposed "fans" in the West. Even back in the late 2000s, I remember lol. these are people who are newer and don't know shit about manga/anime history so their opinions shouldn't even matter
EcchiGodMamster said:
i don't know why the fuck you expect Japan to increase black representation... when were less than 1% of their population and they have no real history with us
True with Europe though too? I mean we have history with them, granted not all positive lol.Regardless, we get plenty of white characters, and again black rep, which hey I have to tell tons of leftists who complain about a lack of representation it isn't a new thing. Honestly if your sci fi universe isn't somewhat diverse, I do question why. Ultimately, if the writing is bad you focus on the writing however, people love to focus on the identity aspect. If you actually don't care about identity politics you criticize people who engage it, you don't go full fledge into it yourself. i don't know why the fuck you expect Japan to increase black representation... when were less than 1% of their population and they have no real history with us
Like again, I remember seeing "anti woke" people bitch about MHA having a black dude living Japan, working as a super hero with a Japanese wife. Yeah again tell me what agenda those people have lol?
derangedx29 said:
You wouldn't understand the 2000s era of anime where there wasn't any culture war, complaints of fanservice etc.
Maybe I was too late; however, in the late 2000s... people were definitely bitching about how much ecchi anime was coming out. I rememberr people bashing Fairy Tail relentlessly for that, when it was still new. You wouldn't understand the 2000s era of anime where there wasn't any culture war, complaints of fanservice etc.
BilboBaggins365 said: There are definitely more works out there, that have socialist leanings or are "woke". You wouldn't be able to show an anime like Wandering Son in the West, without parents wanting to lynch the creator for being "woke". I don't usually investigate the political leanings of all the creators I read/watch. All I know is that hey Yukimura is pretty woke, and widely loved in this community whereas the evil woke West's favourite sci fi author right now is a typical Catholic. Also Miyazaki? Oh super woke. Like I hate him for his horrific politics. Pretty sure people would call for people. to burn the books of Western creators who said Hebdo deserved what he got. Though yeah, it's not usually obviously apparent in his fiction, though some stuff is there. ok cool, well Japan doesn't have the history that the west does when it comes to racism/sexism and people like them are stand out BilboBaggins365 said: Yeah they don't touch grass that is why. Like normally, I don't like overly annoying moral puritans that jump on people for simply liking characters to look like models, that said, I empathized with your average sex negative feminist in that moment. The guys bitching about that were absolutely pathetic and a shame to our sex everywhere. this is just some simp bullshit, shes fucking ugly in the Witcher 4 and was hot in the Witcher 3, i don't know why you think theres something wrong with complaining about the change. this is fiction and there was 0 reason to change her appearance BilboBaggins365 said: Yeah......cause the story takes place years after the third game. WHO THE FUCK looks THAT MUCH OLDER in 3 YEARS??? are you fucking serious? what did she do in those 3 years? meth? BilboBaggins365 said: gain based on what? I have been watching anime since I was a kid in the mid 2000s, and I was reading YouTube comments about anime since the early 2010s. Toxic assholes existed, and yeah I would say there are more than ever right now, because f the intensification of the culture war in the nerdy/geek space. Still again, OP is talking about casual fans. The reality is most anime fans don't participate in the community. Honestly as someone who largely didn't participate for most of his fandom, that probably is the smart move, even if I have found good friends, gonna be honest a lot of anime fans aren't very sympathetic. just because you can find a ton of people bitching about something on the internet doesn't mean theyre a majority theres 7 fucking billion people on this planet and MILLIONS of people watch anime, why the fuck do you care about "Nazis" or whatever leaving stupid comments when these people ARE NOT INVOLVED in western anime distribution, DON'T work for CR and DON'T interview manga/anime creators? do they even harrass the creators? why the fuck do they matter? BilboBaggins365 said: This thread is saying that you should "gatekeep" (literally doesn't exist but whatever) new fans, if they don't matter why bother caring about them at all? . ill say it as many times as i have to.... the ENTIER PIONT of gatekeeping is to preserve what makes something special BilboBaggins365 said: there are a lot of toxic older fans too. People making fun of LGBT characters/themes has been a common thing thrown at anime/JRPGs/Weeb culture by many supposed "fans" in the West. Even back in the late 2000s, I remember lol. these people have had ZERO EFFECT on the industry why the FUCK do you care about them? BilboBaggins365 said: True with Europe though too? I mean we have history with them, granted not all positive lol.Regardless, we get plenty of white characters, and again black rep, which hey I have to tell tons of leftists who complain about a lack of representation it isn't a new thing. Honestly if your sci fi universe isn't somewhat diverse, I do question why. Ultimately, if the writing is bad you focus on the writing however, people love to focus on the identity aspect. If you actually don't care about identity politics you criticize people who engage it, you don't go full fledge into it yourself. Japan is a homogenous country, Europe isn't, its NOT comparable, they have no reason to give a shit about black representation BilboBaggins365 said: Like again, I remember seeing "anti woke" people bitch about MHA having a black dude living Japan, working as a super hero with a Japanese wife. Yeah again tell me what agenda those people have lol? so what? what power do they have? LuxuriousHeart said: @EcchiGodMamster There wasn't much justification, just like now. People just didn't care. Even now, people fondly remember the woke shows/movies. Because as kids, they didn't care. Once again, grifters convinced people to care. Even when the Internet and forums were invented, people didn't endlessly complain. The complaints started once Gamergate became a thing. That started when a guy got dumped by a girl who worked in the industry, and it snowballed from there. if social media had been as relevant back then as it is now, then people would have complained EVEN MORE... society is WAY MORE ACCEPTING of shit than it was back then, saying "no one cared" is just wrong whats REALLY made things worse is social media becoming a part of every day life LuxuriousHeart said: Using the n word, but claiming you're not racist? Yikes... And it was more than those two movies btw. last time i looked in the mirror, i was more than dark enough to say nigga... LuxuriousHeart said: Wasn't Tomb Raider owned by Square Enix at one point? A Japanese company? how is that relevant, its a western IP created by westerners and over time they desexualized her LuxuriousHeart said: Overwatch, League of Legends, Valorant, and Fortnite aren't indie games. I wouldn't even consider Friday the 13th, Smite, or Paladins as an indie game. AA games are what I'd consider them, since they have a decent size work crew. Don't Starve is what I'd consider an indie game. so being able to point out some western games where the female characters are attractive means theres no agenda to desexualize female characters in western media? LuxuriousHeart said: I bring up black representation, because that's the reason people are pivoting to anime. Anime back then was a liberal thing, since anime actually had queer characters and strong women. The men were pretty boys that the Western audience considered feminine. It only flipped when black people started appearing in more mainstream shows and movies, along with games. Racism is why the right pivoted to anime. WHAT??? is this is a joke??? LuxuriousHeart said: It's also the reason why YOU pivoted to anime, btw. stfu when did i "pivot" to anime? my most likely first anime was Samurai Pizza Cats in like 1995, i was watching ALL KINDS of cartoons along side it and it was Pokemon/Digimon in the late 90s that got me hooked on Japanese cartoons, BUT i was STILL watching western cartoons it was the early 2000s when i stopped watching western cartoons, why? because anime art/ascetic was far more attractive to me and i started getting turned off by western art what the fuck does that have to do with race??? Auron said: I don't know why it would be bad for more people to consume anime. its not about how many, its about who the PROBLEM IS a larger community inevitably GUARANTEES the WRONG PEOPLE entering |
|
EcchiGodMamster said: What do you mean by this? You definitely could interpret this in many different ways, and a few would not be positive lol. Japan has a long history of sexism and literally ran one of the most evil regimes of the 20th century, that was heavily racialized. Different than the West? Sure, however, arguing they don't have the history? Almost all developed societies have a history of sexism, and Europe really only invented the scientific bigotry which Japan adopted lol. Racism is present also in all societies. ok cool, well Japan doesn't have the history that the west does when it comes to racism/sexism and people like them are stand out EcchiGodMamster said: Lol is all I have to say to that. Maybe you need to get away from anime waifus for a bit. this is just some simp bullshit, shes fucking ugly in the Witcher 4 and was hot in the Witcher 3, i don't know why you think theres something wrong with complaining about the change. this is fiction and there was 0 reason to change her appearance EcchiGodMamster said: She fights monsters for a living (if anything she should have way more scar tissue). She still looks like an instagram girl, from Eastern Europe, which is not actually how a person in her position should look. It's still heavily idealized if we are to be honest.WHO THE FUCK looks THAT MUCH OLDER in 3 YEARS??? Ciri Rendering For Witcher 4 Yeah this isn't a conventionally attractive woman, big LOL. Maybe the femcels are right. If this is the standard for beauty in women....men are trash lol. EcchiGodMamster said: This logic is true in the reverse too you know. just because you can find a ton of people bitching about something on the internet doesn't mean theyre a majority EcchiGodMamster said: Hmmm....this comment was pretty unrelated to anything I said? I never aid they did. As for caring about Nazis, have I said anything beyond hey we got shit people in the community, and I feel they have been even more mask off of late? That is about all I said lol? theres 7 fucking billion people on this planet and MILLIONS of people watch anime, why the fuck do you care about "Nazis" or whatever leaving stupid comments when these people ARE NOT INVOLVED in western anime distribution, DON'T work for CR and DON'T interview manga/anime creators? EcchiGodMamster said: I mean you have that one case cited in this thread. Horkoshi got shit, though that was mainly Chinese nationalists, though I guess they count as international fans. I don't pay enough attention to online drama to actually comment though. I am just talking about my own interactions with the community, no idea what artists face on the regular. do they even harass the creators? Did I say they do? Like the reason we got into this conversation is just me saying that people who complain about politics, it's a pretty much a 50/50 coin flip on if they are a bigot, at least in my experience. I never said anything about caring, I just think people who say "oh I just don't want anything political" are often lying and hiding their own unsavory characteristics. That is all I said. I never made anything about going on a crusade to get rid of bigotry in the community. EcchiGodMamster said: Europe is quite "homogenous" in many regions, and Japan isn't exactly a pure "homogenous" country. Ahem....the Ainu. Assimilation doing wonders eh? Or if we are going to extend this to their wider history, relations with wider Asia during their Imperial period. Japan is a homogenous country, Europe isn't, its NOT comparable, they have no reason to give a shit about black representation Plus.....how is this relevant? Like if you are making a story about a sci fi universe or fantasy, why does it matter that Japan is homogenous? The settings often aren't in Japan.... I mean Japanese creators feel that way which is why you often saw a lot of diversity in older sci fi anime for instance. It's not like Japanese creators aren't aware of where their works are becoming popular either and how they can market to a more international base with more diverse characters. No one, at least I am not saying Japanese creators must do x or they must do y. They want to make another romance SOL show in Japan, with 100% Japanese characters feel free. I am just commenting on the fact some people do get offended just by people saying hey it would be cool they did x or being appreciative if they do see rep. Plus all I am saying is people don't get this agitated when anime includes white characters which is again suspect. EcchiGodMamster said: I didn't talk about power, my point is this isn't a small part of the fandom in my experiance, and that you have a lot of assholes hiding behind "politics in media" which is what we were talking about, and the only thing I asserted. so what? what power do they have? EcchiGodMamster said: Gatekeeping implies you can do something, what are you going to do stop them from financially influencing the industry lol? That is all that matters. ill say it as many times as i have to.... the ENTIER PIONT of gatekeeping is to preserve what makes something special |
BilboBaggins365May 17, 12:41 AM
More topics from this board
» Japanimation ( 1 2 3 )valico - Jun 8 |
124 |
by kamonmabase
»»
5 seconds ago |
|
» Do you think a battle shounen with a female MC could be really popular ( 1 2 )JoeChip - Jun 11 |
92 |
by TheBerserker
»»
24 seconds ago |
|
Poll: » Anime that deserve a remakeEdoSensei_ - 3 hours ago |
26 |
by BubblegumPatty
»»
2 minutes ago |
|
» Anime that you found excruciatingly painful or incredibly easy to watch.RobertBobert - 2 hours ago |
11 |
by Guilmon1
»»
3 minutes ago |
|
» Would people stop complaining about 3D Anime if there is a boob slider?Dragevard - Jun 9 |
8 |
by zombie_pegasus
»»
5 minutes ago |