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Is it normally assumed that all shonen are battle shonens? When did shonen start to diversify?

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May 11, 9:55 PM
#1
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Usually felt like all Shonen Jump series were nothing but nonstop action and battles that appeal to a young male audience. But then you see series like Witch Watch and Ruri Dragon and even Spy x Family under the weekly Shonen Jump umbrella alongside your typical battle shonens. Was Shonen Jump always devoted to battle shonens? What motivated Shonen Jump to diversify into other types of series or genres?
May 11, 10:00 PM
#2

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If we're beeing over-particular, in here, we could argue that Slam Dunk is Shonen. It's from 1993 and Im sure it's not the first non-battle Shonen, ever made or featuring in Jump.

So following that logic I would say it always was "diverse"
The Battle Type just happens to be the most popular and exciting, hence why it's used the most.
May 11, 10:01 PM
#3
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Sep 2022
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I remember skimming through a series called Ichigo 100%. That's pretty old and wsj
May 11, 10:02 PM
#4

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The oldest Shounen Jump manga listed in the MAL database is an ecchi series, though I imagine it is not the magazine's 1st manga.
https://myanimelist.net/manga/12808/Harenchi_Gakuen
その目だれの目?
May 11, 10:06 PM
#5

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Shounen Jump's (and shounen manga in general) has always covered a variety of genres, though that assumption seems pretty normal since most mainstream shounen are action series. You can look through MAL's weekly shounen jump magazine page yourself and see that a lot of the earlier titles were gag manga or sports manga or something entirely different! Every demographic's always had some level of variety in the content it covers, especially a demographic with as much content as shounen.
May 11, 10:18 PM
#6

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Aug 2018
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I don't care about technicalities. To me, "shonen" is not any specific genre. It's a matter of presentation and style. I hate it. I hate it so much. and in large enough doses, it's enough to completely ruin a show. Shows like ReZero and Summertime Render for example. I honestly don't know how you people stomach the stuff.
May 12, 12:04 AM
#7

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May 2018
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"Is it normally assumed that all shonen are battle shonens?"

Yep...also it's normally assumed the all anime is battle shounen.


"When did shonen start to diversify?"

Before battle shounen was even created. I would say that sport shounen invented and used the formula for battle shounen before the last was even a thing.

May 12, 3:10 AM
#8

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Sep 2016
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Only clueless ones assume that, just 3/7 of shounen actually have the action tag, and even less qualify as battle.
May 12, 4:04 AM
#9

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May 2021
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fallout45 said:
Usually felt like all Shonen Jump series were nothing but nonstop action and battles that appeal to a young male audience. But then you see series like Witch Watch and Ruri Dragon and even Spy x Family under the weekly Shonen Jump umbrella alongside your typical battle shonens. Was Shonen Jump always devoted to battle shonens? What motivated Shonen Jump to diversify into other types of series or genres?

Very common misconception, in fact, battle shounen didn't really get popularized until the 80s with Dragon Ball

Shounen never started to diversify, it already had a variety of genres since as far back as the 1940s with Tezuka, sure it expanded to even more genres over the decades, different genres had different levels of popularity in different eras, but that is just the natural evolution of the medium, and the same can be said about shoujo
May 12, 4:59 AM

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Yes it's a normal assumption for those who don't know Tezuka's works.
May 12, 8:21 AM

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Reply to epidemia78
I don't care about technicalities. To me, "shonen" is not any specific genre. It's a matter of presentation and style. I hate it. I hate it so much. and in large enough doses, it's enough to completely ruin a show. Shows like ReZero and Summertime Render for example. I honestly don't know how you people stomach the stuff.
@epidemia78
Can you explain what you hate about that style? You have Code Geass in your favorites even though it feels like a shounen to me.
その目だれの目?
May 12, 8:22 AM

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Reply to Deago
Yes it's a normal assumption for those who don't know Tezuka's works.
@Deago
Or Mizuki's...
https://myanimelist.net/manga/10499/GeGeGe_no_Kitarou
その目だれの目?
May 12, 9:27 AM

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Jun 2017
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that's always been my assumption till i started researching it and got more into anime. Mostly because i only ever saw that phrase in relation to those style anime. Your Naruto, DBZ, One Piece's
My waifu is the most wonderful waifu. Mai Valentine.

We're freaking out that we're running out of time, but to do what? Should i stop and think of that? Is there something i could do to slow it down? Live in a day for once, instead of watch it sprinting by
May 12, 11:23 AM

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Reply to Lucifrost
@epidemia78
Can you explain what you hate about that style? You have Code Geass in your favorites even though it feels like a shounen to me.
@Lucifrost

What annoys me most about the shonen style is the pacing. When the story progress slows to a crawl so they can focus on details that really do not warrant so much attention. There's usually a lot of repetition involved. Long monologues that reiterate the same cliched ideas, villains repeating questions they were asked in a mocking tone. It feels like filler. It feels like my time is being wasted. It feels like a cynical attempt to create "drama" and drag out events as long as possible.

Code geass does have its moments when little progress is made but for the most part it moves at a breakneck pace. If it really were a shonen, it'd still be airing today with no resolution in sight.
May 12, 11:36 AM

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Reply to epidemia78
I don't care about technicalities. To me, "shonen" is not any specific genre. It's a matter of presentation and style. I hate it. I hate it so much. and in large enough doses, it's enough to completely ruin a show. Shows like ReZero and Summertime Render for example. I honestly don't know how you people stomach the stuff.
@epidemia78 ReZero is a Seinen. Most of the anime you've watched has been Shounen. Your highest rated demographic is Shounen.
May 12, 11:37 AM

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Reply to Lucifrost
@epidemia78
Can you explain what you hate about that style? You have Code Geass in your favorites even though it feels like a shounen to me.
@Lucifrost Code Geass isn't a Shounen at all. It has a Seinen and Shoujo manga, so...
May 12, 11:48 AM

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Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@epidemia78 ReZero is a Seinen. Most of the anime you've watched has been Shounen. Your highest rated demographic is Shounen.
@LuxuriousHeart

what makes it a seinen? Because it has blood in it? lol
May 12, 12:25 PM

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Reply to epidemia78
@LuxuriousHeart

what makes it a seinen? Because it has blood in it? lol
@epidemia78 No. Because it was published in Monthly Comic Alive, a Seinen magazine. Not every Seinen has blood in it. Dance Dance Danseur, Medalist, Haru and Ao's Lunchbox, and Onward! Maiden Road maiden road are Seinen series. So is K-On, Kaguya-sama, Skip and Loafer, etc. Every Seinen isn't dark or philosophical.
May 12, 3:24 PM

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Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@epidemia78 No. Because it was published in Monthly Comic Alive, a Seinen magazine. Not every Seinen has blood in it. Dance Dance Danseur, Medalist, Haru and Ao's Lunchbox, and Onward! Maiden Road maiden road are Seinen series. So is K-On, Kaguya-sama, Skip and Loafer, etc. Every Seinen isn't dark or philosophical.
@LuxuriousHeart

and as I said earlier, I care not for technicalities. If you really want to get pedantic, ReZero is began as a webnovel with no particular demographic. ReZero feels very shonen to me. What with its never ending parade of obnoxious villains who stand in place for entire episodes just... yelling and laughing.
May 12, 4:41 PM

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Shonen wasn't even about battle at first man , Dragon ball introduced this type of shonen called "nekketsu"
Sofia Vergara is the absolute prettiest living being since the first apparition of any living entity on this earth and space.

May 12, 4:43 PM

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Reply to Merve2Love
If we're beeing over-particular, in here, we could argue that Slam Dunk is Shonen. It's from 1993 and Im sure it's not the first non-battle Shonen, ever made or featuring in Jump.

So following that logic I would say it always was "diverse"
The Battle Type just happens to be the most popular and exciting, hence why it's used the most.
@Merve2Love hello Merve , be calm i come in peace , i just wanted to know , on a scale on 10 , how much would yiu rate the majestic pretty beautiful Sofia Margarita Vergara?
Sofia Vergara is the absolute prettiest living being since the first apparition of any living entity on this earth and space.

May 12, 4:47 PM

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the demographic meaning for "shounen" got dumbed down to appeal to retarded hoodweebs on xitter who only watch ts
May 12, 5:06 PM

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Reply to Zakatsuki_
@Merve2Love hello Merve , be calm i come in peace , i just wanted to know , on a scale on 10 , how much would yiu rate the majestic pretty beautiful Sofia Margarita Vergara?
@Zakatsuki_

I would answer that with:
The Thread you created honoring this actress was already creepy enough. No need asking me. I don't care what or who you like.

I would also ask you to not use Discussions Threads as if this was a chatroom, where you can impose your weirdness on people.


Hope that's alright :)
May 12, 5:09 PM

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Reply to Merve2Love
@Zakatsuki_

I would answer that with:
The Thread you created honoring this actress was already creepy enough. No need asking me. I don't care what or who you like.

I would also ask you to not use Discussions Threads as if this was a chatroom, where you can impose your weirdness on people.


Hope that's alright :)
@Merve2Love merve you truly are a good antagonist for my journey!

but firstly my thread wasn't creepy and secondly you didn't answer my question come on Merve-chan i know you probably found her beautiful as hell like she is or even wore , you are jealous of Sofia omgggg

and we both know this thread was NOT creepy, god forbid an heterosexual man finding a woman attractive lmao , you're the only one finding this creepy , just because ZAKATSUKI is the creator bro
Zakatsuki_May 12, 5:15 PM
Sofia Vergara is the absolute prettiest living being since the first apparition of any living entity on this earth and space.

May 12, 5:13 PM

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battle shit is just known more in the west because that's primarily what got anime big here if I had to guess.
May 12, 5:32 PM

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It was diverse from the beginning, just westerners assuming it was just fighting shounen because those were the most popular ones at the time, and because most of the big ones are from Shounen Jump. To this day you get people confused on why certain nekketsu aren't included in Shounen Jump related stuff.
May 13, 3:19 AM

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Apr 2017
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Reply to epidemia78
@LuxuriousHeart

and as I said earlier, I care not for technicalities. If you really want to get pedantic, ReZero is began as a webnovel with no particular demographic. ReZero feels very shonen to me. What with its never ending parade of obnoxious villains who stand in place for entire episodes just... yelling and laughing.
@epidemia78 But the technicalities matter. If it's published in a Shounen magazine, it's a Shounen. If it's not published in a Shounen magazine, it isn't a Shounen. ReZero is originally a novel, but it had a manga that was published in a Seinen magazine. Similar to Apothecary Diaries. Apothecary Diaries started as a light novel, but it later on got a manga that was published in a Seinen magazine. That's why Apothecary Diaries is a Seinen series.

Going by "vibes" is part of the problem. If you're truly sick of Shounen (and mainstream Seinen I guess), support more obscure Seinen. Support Shoujo and Josei. Don't support even more Shounen and justify it with the "vibes" argument. So many "Shounen haters" who use the "vibes" argument will have their favorite series be:
- Attack on Titan
- A Silent Voice
- Frieren
- Bloom Into You
- Toilet Bound Hanako
- Inuyasha
- Death Note
- Spy x Family
- Horimiya
- Blue Box

(All of those^ series are Shounen)

I know y'all are trying to be "different" and "I'm not like other anime fans who just watch Shounen! I don't even like Shounen!", but y'all are just contributing to the erasure of the other demographics as well. Kind of like when someone highlighted "Shoujo" fantasy series as:
- Frieren
- Apothecary Diaries
- Witch Hat Atelier
- Inuyasha

That doesn't really help Shoujo. It just erases the actual fantasy Shoujo series. I really wish y'all would stop doing that.
May 13, 3:25 AM

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Apr 2017
2443
Reply to zoomerReviewer
the demographic meaning for "shounen" got dumbed down to appeal to retarded hoodweebs on xitter who only watch ts
@zoomerReviewer There's that word hoodweeb again, where no one ever gave me a proper definition for it. Y'all all say different things,.yet y'all always use it. I wonder why y'all use it with so kuch certainty, yst aren't certain about the definition. 🤔
May 13, 3:30 AM

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Apr 2017
2443
Reply to Zakatsuki_
@Merve2Love merve you truly are a good antagonist for my journey!

but firstly my thread wasn't creepy and secondly you didn't answer my question come on Merve-chan i know you probably found her beautiful as hell like she is or even wore , you are jealous of Sofia omgggg

and we both know this thread was NOT creepy, god forbid an heterosexual man finding a woman attractive lmao , you're the only one finding this creepy , just because ZAKATSUKI is the creator bro
@Zakatsuki_ I don't even see Merve in that thread, so why call her out here? There are other people in that thread calling it cringe. Perhaps call them out.
May 13, 3:45 AM
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108
it's a demographic not a genre, when finally will people learn to diffiriate the difference between demographic and a genre? that topic already is already screaming ignorance because these are demographics and they are just targeting age groups like what these novel demographics are, shonen jump and every other magazine always covered multiple genres since shonen is just demographic and not a one specific genre. Look at gintama it is slice of lice comedy series with a bits of action and that is weekly shonen jump series, or also look at something like blue box which is romantic sports series, haikyuu an sports series, akane banashi an coming of age comedy drama series, or death note it's mystery psychological thriller, or also to love ru which is ecchi. We are living in 21st century of the era of the internet where information is radily accessible and very easy to find, why you cannot properly reasearch the information? Shonen vs seinen discourse is very tiring. This is as if I was saying that "oh young adult meaning dark fantasy novel" type of ignorance.
May 13, 3:51 AM

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There was never a "diversion"of battle shounens to other types of shounen because shounen isn't just about battling shows
You've got shows like Great Teacher Onizuka,Urusei Yatsura,Kimagure Orange Road all from the 80s-90s period that aren't battle shounens
Now of course battle shounens are the most popular of the bunch,but they're not the only type of shounen because right from the beginning there were various types of stories
May 13, 4:24 AM

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Aug 2018
8517
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@epidemia78 But the technicalities matter. If it's published in a Shounen magazine, it's a Shounen. If it's not published in a Shounen magazine, it isn't a Shounen. ReZero is originally a novel, but it had a manga that was published in a Seinen magazine. Similar to Apothecary Diaries. Apothecary Diaries started as a light novel, but it later on got a manga that was published in a Seinen magazine. That's why Apothecary Diaries is a Seinen series.

Going by "vibes" is part of the problem. If you're truly sick of Shounen (and mainstream Seinen I guess), support more obscure Seinen. Support Shoujo and Josei. Don't support even more Shounen and justify it with the "vibes" argument. So many "Shounen haters" who use the "vibes" argument will have their favorite series be:
- Attack on Titan
- A Silent Voice
- Frieren
- Bloom Into You
- Toilet Bound Hanako
- Inuyasha
- Death Note
- Spy x Family
- Horimiya
- Blue Box

(All of those^ series are Shounen)

I know y'all are trying to be "different" and "I'm not like other anime fans who just watch Shounen! I don't even like Shounen!", but y'all are just contributing to the erasure of the other demographics as well. Kind of like when someone highlighted "Shoujo" fantasy series as:
- Frieren
- Apothecary Diaries
- Witch Hat Atelier
- Inuyasha

That doesn't really help Shoujo. It just erases the actual fantasy Shoujo series. I really wish y'all would stop doing that.
@LuxuriousHeart

yeah I'm not trying to be "different". I've got nothing to prove to you. These are my honest feelings on the subject. Battle shonen quite obviously influenced the writing in shows like ReZero and Summertime Render. The influence is as plain as day. And I wish anime would take inspiration from elsewhere.
May 13, 4:26 AM

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1392
LuxuriousHeart said:
@Zakatsuki_ I don't even see Merve in that thread, so why call her out here? There are other people in that thread calling it cringe. Perhaps call them out.

no way, I'm against one of the only friends of Merve , she wasn't in the thread because she boycott all threads I create , but she said that was creepy , others says cringe for every celeb , Merve specifically target me
Sofia Vergara is the absolute prettiest living being since the first apparition of any living entity on this earth and space.

May 13, 6:58 AM

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Apr 2017
2443
Reply to epidemia78
@LuxuriousHeart

yeah I'm not trying to be "different". I've got nothing to prove to you. These are my honest feelings on the subject. Battle shonen quite obviously influenced the writing in shows like ReZero and Summertime Render. The influence is as plain as day. And I wish anime would take inspiration from elsewhere.
@epidemia78 Where else can anime take inspiration from? Battle Shounen is the most popular genre, and Shounen is the most popular demographic. Where else would series take inspiration from, if not the most popular genre/demographic?
May 13, 7:17 AM

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Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@zoomerReviewer There's that word hoodweeb again, where no one ever gave me a proper definition for it. Y'all all say different things,.yet y'all always use it. I wonder why y'all use it with so kuch certainty, yst aren't certain about the definition. 🤔
@LuxuriousHeart it means i can hear the ceiling bird chirp when you yap or something. i know what i mean when i say it maybe it's you who is confused and projecting 🏚
lacks self awareness award 🏅
May 13, 7:25 AM
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It is an amazing topic. Gained lot of knowledge. thank everyone.
May 13, 7:48 AM

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Apr 2017
2443
Reply to zoomerReviewer
@LuxuriousHeart it means i can hear the ceiling bird chirp when you yap or something. i know what i mean when i say it maybe it's you who is confused and projecting 🏚
lacks self awareness award 🏅
@zoomerReviewer So that's a new defintion that's very different from the other definitions. Why do the definitions keep changing?
May 13, 8:04 AM
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Nov 2018
184
anime demographics aren't manga demographics
May 13, 1:21 PM

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Aug 2018
8517
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@epidemia78 Where else can anime take inspiration from? Battle Shounen is the most popular genre, and Shounen is the most popular demographic. Where else would series take inspiration from, if not the most popular genre/demographic?
@LuxuriousHeart

Instead of following the battle shonen template they could take inspiration from many sources. Ever heard of a thing called literature? ReZero especially would have been much better served if it's writer ever read an actual book in his life.
May 13, 2:55 PM

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Apr 2017
2443
Reply to epidemia78
@LuxuriousHeart

Instead of following the battle shonen template they could take inspiration from many sources. Ever heard of a thing called literature? ReZero especially would have been much better served if it's writer ever read an actual book in his life.
@epidemia78 Who's to say they don't take inspiration from books? There's all sorts of books. The Cat in the Hat is a book. Perhaps battle Shounen can take inspiration from that? How about comic books? Superman? Spiderman? You know, like My Hero Academia did? Twilight is a literature book series. You want anime taking inspiration from that?
May 13, 2:56 PM

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Aug 2018
8517
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@epidemia78 Who's to say they don't take inspiration from books? There's all sorts of books. The Cat in the Hat is a book. Perhaps battle Shounen can take inspiration from that? How about comic books? Superman? Spiderman? You know, like My Hero Academia did? Twilight is a literature book series. You want anime taking inspiration from that?
@LuxuriousHeart

you're a world class cunt. Has anyone ever told you that?
May 13, 3:02 PM

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Apr 2017
2443
Reply to epidemia78
@LuxuriousHeart

you're a world class cunt. Has anyone ever told you that?
@epidemia78 I'm just saying that I think Shounen is doing a good job. Considering that most of your watch list is Shounen, and Shounen is the highest scoring demographic on your list. But that's just me. 😊

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