New
Apr 5, 5:54 AM
#101
Apr 5, 6:05 AM
#102
| We all start out somewhere. All I watched back when I first started watching anime was Naruto and various other 2000 era shonen. Eventually though I reached out and watched anything I could get my grubby little pirate hands on. Now 15 years later.... I'm back to enjoying a good shonen LOL |
Apr 5, 6:15 AM
#103
Reply to Papa_Scorch
@Yotsuba84 No idea what you are trying to say here.OP ask if you look down one someone for their type of anime they like.Answer is no whether they are shounen fans or not. I don't see how the side need to change. It's a free market and let people decide for themselves what anime they want to pay for with their own hard earn money.
| @Papa_Scorch the biggest shounen fans are the corporations who wants to create simple people, so yes we should looking down on them. i hate when people are trying to defend themselves by saying "it's a matter of taste..." everyone's somewhat judgmental. and shounen fans are one to be mostly influenced groups due to their age. so you can try to defend the accepting stance, but that makes you sound pretty hypocritical. either parents should be more involved in their children's lives, or corporations should be restricted from interfering and manipulating children. Currently, even governments are trying to restrict parents from raising children, which creates this absurd situation... |
Apr 5, 6:41 AM
#104
Reply to Yotsuba84
@Papa_Scorch
the biggest shounen fans are the corporations who wants to create simple people, so yes we should looking down on them. i hate when people are trying to defend themselves by saying "it's a matter of taste..." everyone's somewhat judgmental. and shounen fans are one to be mostly influenced groups due to their age. so you can try to defend the accepting stance, but that makes you sound pretty hypocritical. either parents should be more involved in their children's lives, or corporations should be restricted from interfering and manipulating children. Currently, even governments are trying to restrict parents from raising children, which creates this absurd situation...
the biggest shounen fans are the corporations who wants to create simple people, so yes we should looking down on them. i hate when people are trying to defend themselves by saying "it's a matter of taste..." everyone's somewhat judgmental. and shounen fans are one to be mostly influenced groups due to their age. so you can try to defend the accepting stance, but that makes you sound pretty hypocritical. either parents should be more involved in their children's lives, or corporations should be restricted from interfering and manipulating children. Currently, even governments are trying to restrict parents from raising children, which creates this absurd situation...
| @Yotsuba84 This has to be the dumbest and delusional take I ever seen. Just because other people have different taste than yours that does not mean they are brainwash by corporations. No one is manipulating others. It's all delusion inside your head. The only judgemental people are those with insecurity and inferiority complex about themselves and the only way they can feel like a special snowflake is by feeling superior about their own taste in anime which is incredibly dumb .Government try to restrict parents from raising children? What nonsese conspiracy are you talking about? You are not even talking about anime anymore. |
Papa_ScorchApr 5, 6:59 AM
| It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person. |
Apr 5, 7:27 AM
#105
Reply to Papa_Scorch
@Yotsuba84 This has to be the dumbest and delusional take I ever seen. Just because other people have different taste than yours that does not mean they are brainwash by corporations. No one is manipulating others. It's all delusion inside your head. The only judgemental people are those with insecurity and inferiority complex about themselves and the only way they can feel like a special snowflake is by feeling superior about their own taste in anime which is incredibly dumb .Government try to restrict parents from raising children? What nonsese conspiracy are you talking about? You are not even talking about anime anymore.
| @Papa_Scorch I'm talking about everything, and anime is part of it, and what interests me the most, but in the end it's the same. "Nobody manipulates others" - you have to be joking. XD I think I'm done... there's no point in arguing :) Try to watch Adolescence, it's a new mini series. Propagandistic, but great. maybe you will understand than. |
Yotsuba84Apr 5, 7:30 AM
Apr 5, 8:10 AM
#106
Reply to Yotsuba84
@Papa_Scorch I'm talking about everything, and anime is part of it, and what interests me the most, but in the end it's the same.
"Nobody manipulates others" - you have to be joking. XD I think I'm done... there's no point in arguing :)
Try to watch Adolescence, it's a new mini series. Propagandistic, but great. maybe you will understand than.
"Nobody manipulates others" - you have to be joking. XD I think I'm done... there's no point in arguing :)
Try to watch Adolescence, it's a new mini series. Propagandistic, but great. maybe you will understand than.
| @Yotsuba84 Yes, I'm serious. Company don't make manipulate people into liking shounen. Company make shounen because it's generate money and most popular. Blaming others/conspiracy for not sharing the same belief or taste as you is just pathetic. |
| It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person. |
Apr 5, 9:21 AM
#107
@LuxuriousHeart "most of them just watch ultra mainstream action anime." So you ARE confusing with casual anime watchers to Shonen fans... Ofcourse Casual anime fans won't watch Shoujo/Josei because it is not as appealing to them as Shonen... As a casual anime fan ofcourse you would only watch Shonen/Seinen if you are going to only watch the best of the best anime.... LuxuriousHeart said: More hypocrisy of Shounen fans. So when you crap on other demographics and simply call them inferior, it's okay. When people do the same to Shounen, it's bad? Once again, this is why most people dislike Shounen fans. And watch the other Shounen fans ignore this comment, but then get on a soap box about people looking down on Shounen. NO... Using words like "Incel", "Sexist", "Closed minded", "Misogynistic" is insulting... Saying Shoujo is better than Shonen OR Shonen is better than Shoujo is not insulting... How is "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" insulting Shoujo?????? Instead isn't that the better behaviour to not watch something you don't like rather than insulting someone for not liking what you like????? Shoujo fans are THE most toxic anime fandom... They insult/attack people for not liking Shoujo, for not watching Shoujo If you think someone saying Shonen is better than Shoujo is insulting entire Shoujo, I really cannot help you... How is thinking 1 thing is better than 2nd thing insulting the 2nd thing????? See if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen, think away... But don't insult people by calling them unnecessary names if they say Shonen is better than Shoujo In your reply you said I insulted Shoujo multiple times when I said Shonen > Shoujo... That is not insulting Shoujo and that is also not insulting Shoujo fans... But what you are doing + what most of the Shoujo fandom does, "If you don't watch Shoujo, you are closed minded... If you don't have Shoujo works on your top anime list, then you are mysogynistic... If you don't like CardCaptor Sakura as much as you like Naruto or DBZ then you are a sexist" THAT IS INSULTING PEOPLE, THAT IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR LuxuriousHeart said: There's a reason why they preferred anime with a male protagonist in a male demographic over anime with female protagonists aimed at the female demographic. Do you really think Sakura has the pulling power equal to Naruto or Goku???? Sakura is as likeable as Naruto or Goku??? The villains are as good as in Naruto or DBZ??? The conflict, the stakes, the side characters are as good as Naruto or DBZ???? Do you really think that kids who preferred Naruto or DBZ over CardCaptor Sakura are SEXISTS?????? Saying CardCaptor Sakura is not as good as Naruto or DBZ is not insulting CCS or fans of CCS.... But if you say THE ONLY REASON that kids preferred Naruto or DBZ over CCS is because they have SEXIST tendencies IS INSULTING BOTH THE KIDS AND NARUTO, DBZ Didn't I already told you that Shonen fans don't like Shoujo because they have unlikeable female leads??? The female protagonist aimed at female demographic is a very unlikeable Female Lead 90% of the time... It's true for Shoujo, Josei, Korean Drama, Chinese Drama, Japanese Drama and even Books... That was my complaint from the start, Shoujo Female Leads are unlikeable... If you want Shonen fans, Seinen fans, especially men to watch female demographic then the female leads have to be likeable for them.... If Shoujo will keep on producing unlikeable Female Leads Shonen fans and men will not turn their way Female protagonist aimed at Male demographic do fine by the way... Look at Maomao, Frieren, Mitsumi (Skip to loafer)... So "female protagonist" is not the problem, it is the "aimed at female demographic" that is the problem... I don't understand why writers write unlikeable female leads for female demographic... Is it the problem the writers or the female demographic?? I am not sure Male protagonist aimed at Male demographic doesn't have this problem because they are written to be likeable by everybody not just boys... Naruto and Goku is likeable to every gender, every age, every culture etc... They are liked by everyone all over the world... But female protagonist aimed at female demographic are not liked by everyone... I have observed that traditional people(men and women) just don't like female protagonist aimed at female demographic, so they don't have appeal for everyone... But traditional, non traditional, feminists, anti feminists, right leaning, left leaning, everyone likes Naruto, Goku because of their universal appeal to every human being... LuxuriousHeart said: Togashi has talked about his love for Shoujo. You're not reading his interviews it seems... Isayama made a reference to Requiem of the Rose King, a dark fantasy Shoujo manga Again you are missing the point... The question was whether Togashi and Isayama preferred Shonen over Shoujo.... Not whether they liked Shoujo or not... Writers tend to write the stories that they personally want to enjoy and guess what stories they wrote??? They wrote Shonen, incredibly good ones at that... Actions speak louder than words, Isayama wrote Attack on Titan because of Muv-Luv Alternative LuxuriousHeart said: Statistics show that Shounen fans avoid Shoujo and Josei, btw What statistics???? In those statistics what is defined as a "Shonen fan" and what is defined as "avoid"???? How do they distinguish a Shonen fan from casual fan or seinen fans??? Show me those statistics, I am very curious on how they defined those terms I am telling you right, Shoujo and Josei works are not good enough for Shonen fans... The peak Shoujo of Fruits Basket, Nana etc is not good enough for them to come back to it... Infact if they only watched Nana, then it is pretty reasonable to avoid shoujo altogether forever... Even if Shonen fans avoid Shoujo and Josei, that is not enough reason to call them names like "closed minded, Incel, Misogynistic, Sexist"!!! That is Toxic behaviour... "I don't like so I won't watch Shonen/Shoujo/Seinen/Josei" is perfectly reasonable behaviour BUT INSULTING THOSE PEOPLE BY ATTACKING THEIR CHARACTER IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR that Shoujo fandom exhibits very regularly LuxuriousHeart said: More hypocrisy of Shounen fans. So when you crap on other demographics and simply call them inferior, it's okay. When people do the same to Shounen, it's bad? Again, it is completely reasonable if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen or vice versa... It is completely reasonable if you ONLY WATCH YOUR PREFERRED SHOWS AND NOT OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS... Saying something is not good is not insulting it... Even look at this post... It is not "Do you hate Shonen???", it is "Do you hate Shonen FANS???"... This post is about people not anime... STOP INSULTING PEOPLE FOR THEIR ANIME WATCHING HABITS I will say this again and again Shoujo is not good enough for Shonen... This is not insulting Shoujo or Shoujo fans... Shonen has the best anime overall... Shonen has both quality and quantity... Let's do a simple analysis... How many anime fans do you think will watch 500 anime??? Not a lot right... If you have an appetite for 500 anime and you are a Shoujo first anime fan, then you don't have a choice to come out of Shoujo and explore other demographics... The same is true with Josei and Seinen too... But if you are a Shonen first anime fan, then you easily have 500 classics to watch and even some of them have 100's of episodes with new compelling shows coming out every season... Shonen first fans really don't have enough time to complete great Shonen anime... What is my basis?? It is MAL top anime list/Reddit recommendations/Youtube recommendations etc... You take a look at MAL top anime and see how many Shonen anime are there on the top... Action, Romance, Sports, Mystery, Comedy, Slice of life etc every genre's top most anime is a Shonen anime... Now if we think how much an average anime fan watches, most people don't even watch 100 shows... If you don't care about demographic and only want the best 100 anime how many shoujo anime will make the cut?? 10 shoujo anime would be the best case scenario, and out of those atleast 5 will be dropped because of unlikeable female protagonist, unrealistic male characters and unappealing themes... After becoming a more experienced anime fan after watching 100 shows, if they are shoujo fanatics (meaning they completed all 10 shows enthusiastically) they will go for more shoujo, otherwise, in future, the first demographic that they drop is shoujo because of their not satisfactory experience with the demographic If we talk about casual fans(who you complained about only watching ultra mainstream anime), who only watch like 20 or less shows, then the top 20 best of the best anime that are appealing to an average person is going to be shonen like Naruto, DBZ, Onepiece.... No shoujo, No Josei, maybe a 1 or 2 Seinen will make the cut of top 20 anime of all time... STOP BLAMING PEOPLE WHEN THEY DON'T LIKE SHOUJO AND START BLAMING AUTHORS FOR FAILING TO CAPTURE A WIDE RANGE OF AUDIENCE INSTEAD Shoujo fans, Josei fans, Seinen fans, Shonen fans are ANIME FANS first... If you wanna watch best anime you cannot avoid Shonen at all.. If you avoid Shonen completely and only consume Shoujo and Josei, your anime experience will suffer or not last long because of low number of good Shoujo anime... This is the reason why majority of Shoujo first anime watchers become manga readers too (because of low number of good Shoujo anime)... Shoujo fans watch Shonen not because of noble reasons like "they are open minded", they watched it because of low number of good Shoujo anime and they found value in watching Shonen anime... In reverse, Shonen fans don't even have enough time to think about Shoujo anime since their plate is already full with huge number of great shonen anime... Even if they did carve out some time for Shoujo anime and watch the peak Shoujo, those shows are not good enough for them to get back to Shoujo anime and invest their time in it... Now you understand why overwhelming majority of Shonen fans don't even touch manga because their plate is already full with shonen anime Shonen anime have characters and themes that appeal to everyone while it is not the case with Shoujo... That is it makes complete sense most anime fans watch Shonen including Shoujo fans... It also completely makes sense that Shonen fans don't want to watch Shoujo since it does not appeal to them STOP INSULTING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO WATCH SHOUJO... STOP CLAIMING SEXISM WHEN SHOUJO IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH TIME INVESTMENT FOR SHONEN FANS... IF YOU THINK SHOUJO IS BETTER THAN SHONEN IT IS COMPLETELY FINE, IT IS ALSO COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE THINK SHONEN IS BETTER THAN SHOUJO... IT IS COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH SHONEN (but they don't have a choice but to watch it, cuz if you wanna watch great anime you really cannot avoid shonen) BUT IT IS NOT FINE TO HATE AND INSULT PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T WATCH SHONEN... LIKEWISE, IT IS COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH SHOUJO... THERE IS NO NEED TO ATTACK THEM WITH "SEXISM","MISOGYNY","CLOSE MINDED".... IF YOU DO THAT, THEN IT IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR AND NEEDS TO BE CALLED OUT... SHOUJO FANS ARE THE MOST TOXIC FANS IN ANIME TRYING OUT UNKNOWN/UNPOPULAR SHOUJO ANIME IS A WASTE OF TIME FOR SHONEN FANS... EVEN IF THEY DID WANNA TRY DECENTLY POPULAR SHOUJO ANIME, THEY STILL HAVE COMPETING SHONEN ANIME WHICH ARE USUALLY MUCH MORE POPULAR THAN THE SHOUJO ANIME THEY ARE CONSIDERING... So you want Shonen fans to watch Shoujo anime??? Make authors to write better characters, especially the female leads, better appealing themes, better side characters, realistic men.... Unless Shoujo anime changes, Shonen fans and Men will not look their way I only try Shoujo for my personal interest... If I valued my time more and only want to watch the best anime or only top 5 anime that caught my attention (how most people watch anything honestly) no Shoujo will make the cut... It will all be either Shonen or Seinen... I don't think even romance anime would make the cut... Watching Shoujo has no value for us... I usually recommend my friends some anime to watch, none of them watched more than 30 btw, I haven't recommended a single Shoujo anime to them... Because even if I want to recommend A Sign of Affection to them, A Sign of Affection is low down the list of priority... Shows like FMA, Steins Gate are obviously more priority... Now out of new shows, I would suggest watching Frieren, Kaiju no 8, Solo Levelling before any shoujo... One of my friend who is like only 10 anime old, saw the poster of chained soldier and started it without me... He completed the whole anime in a single night while I was sleeping... I dropped that shit anime on episode 1!... Now do you understand what I mean by Shoujo is just not good enough to capture Shonen fans/Casual fans/average people's attention? My bottom line is this... Kids who preferred Naruto over CCS are not sexists, Anime fans who prefer shonen over other demographics are not misogynists, it just means just did not resonate with audience enough... Shoujo fans who watched Shonen are not some noble open minded watchers, they watched it because those shows grabbed their attention and Shonen is REALLY THAT GOOD... Frankly stop insulting people if they say they don't like Shoujo or won't watch Shoujo, that Toxic behaviour needs to stop |
Kira_IllusionistApr 5, 1:19 PM
Apr 5, 9:27 AM
#108
| Shounen anime is usually very enjoyable to watch. I don't understand why anyone would dislike it. |
Apr 5, 9:56 AM
#109
| The average shounen fan is probably shorter than me so yes I do literally look down on them |
Apr 5, 12:48 PM
#110
Reply to jacobPOL
@LuxuriousHeart So you mean in your mentality I should also look down on every novel reader that reads young adult novels as well? just let people what they enjoy reading, everyone that looks down on someone because they enjoy something people don't like are just immature.
| @jacobPOL Well, then there's the thing where Shounen fans ironically look down on some other demographics... |
Apr 5, 1:37 PM
#111
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@jacobPOL Well, then there's the thing where Shounen fans ironically look down on some other demographics...
| @LuxuriousHeart @jacobPOL Come on LuxuriousHeart, he was talking about looking down on PEOPLE, the novel readers, not the actual novels.... If you want to look down on Young Adult novels go ahead, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who actually read Young Adult Novels... If you think Adult Novels are not good enough then that's the end of it... In reverse, if you enjoy Young Adult novels great, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who avoid Young Adult Novels like a plague... Accept that Young Adult novels are not for everyone without insulting them If you enjoy Shoujo, great, but you don't have to right to look down/insult PEOPLE who avoid Shoujo like a plague If you don't enjoy Shonen that much, fine, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who enjoy Shonen... Don't attack their characters and intelligence because that is Toxic behaviour Shonen fans don't attack people if they say "I don't like Shonen so I won't watch it" but Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence if they say "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it"... LuxuriousHeart said: Shounen fans ironically look down on some other demographics... Shonen fans saying Shonen is the best is not looking down on other demographics... There is nothing problematic about it, nothing to complain about |
Apr 5, 2:02 PM
#112
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
@LuxuriousHeart @jacobPOL
Come on LuxuriousHeart, he was talking about looking down on PEOPLE, the novel readers, not the actual novels.... If you want to look down on Young Adult novels go ahead, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who actually read Young Adult Novels... If you think Adult Novels are not good enough then that's the end of it...
In reverse, if you enjoy Young Adult novels great, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who avoid Young Adult Novels like a plague... Accept that Young Adult novels are not for everyone without insulting them
If you enjoy Shoujo, great, but you don't have to right to look down/insult PEOPLE who avoid Shoujo like a plague
If you don't enjoy Shonen that much, fine, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who enjoy Shonen... Don't attack their characters and intelligence because that is Toxic behaviour
Shonen fans don't attack people if they say "I don't like Shonen so I won't watch it" but Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence if they say "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it"...
Shonen fans saying Shonen is the best is not looking down on other demographics... There is nothing problematic about it, nothing to complain about
Come on LuxuriousHeart, he was talking about looking down on PEOPLE, the novel readers, not the actual novels.... If you want to look down on Young Adult novels go ahead, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who actually read Young Adult Novels... If you think Adult Novels are not good enough then that's the end of it...
In reverse, if you enjoy Young Adult novels great, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who avoid Young Adult Novels like a plague... Accept that Young Adult novels are not for everyone without insulting them
If you enjoy Shoujo, great, but you don't have to right to look down/insult PEOPLE who avoid Shoujo like a plague
If you don't enjoy Shonen that much, fine, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who enjoy Shonen... Don't attack their characters and intelligence because that is Toxic behaviour
Shonen fans don't attack people if they say "I don't like Shonen so I won't watch it" but Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence if they say "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it"...
LuxuriousHeart said:
Shounen fans ironically look down on some other demographics...
Shounen fans ironically look down on some other demographics...
Shonen fans saying Shonen is the best is not looking down on other demographics... There is nothing problematic about it, nothing to complain about
| @Kira_Illusionist thank you, it's just so tiring to see people looking down on people that enjoy certain demographics they do not like, overall every people that look down on someone because they enjoy something they do not like is just tiring. |
Apr 5, 2:02 PM
#113
Kira_Illusionist said: NO... Using words like "Incel", "Sexist", "Closed minded", "Misogynistic" is insulting... Saying Shoujo is better than Shonen OR Shonen is better than Shoujo is not insulting... How is "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" insulting Shoujo?????? Instead isn't that the better behaviour to not watch something you don't like rather than insulting someone for not liking what you like????? Shoujo fans are THE most toxic anime fandom... They insult/attack people for not liking Shoujo, for not watching Shoujo If you think someone saying Shonen is better than Shoujo is insulting entire Shoujo, I really cannot help you... How is thinking 1 thing is better than 2nd thing insulting the 2nd thing????? See if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen, think away... But don't insult people by calling them unnecessary names if they say Shonen is better than Shoujo In your reply you said I insulted Shoujo multiple times when I said Shonen > Shoujo... That is not insulting Shoujo and that is also not insulting Shoujo fans... But what you are doing + what most of the Shoujo fandom does, "If you don't watch Shoujo, you are closed minded... If you don't have Shoujo works on your top anime list, then you are mysogynistic... If you don't like CardCaptor Sakura as much as you like Naruto or DBZ then you are a sexist" THAT IS INSULTING PEOPLE, THAT IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR See, it's this comment that makes me not take you seriously... Take in mind, I don't even like all Shoujo fans. However, Shoujo fans pointing out the misogyny within a fandom is not a real issue. Also, Shield Hero did act like an incel. Also, you act as if the writing is inferior to Shounen and Seinen... "Two entire demographics aimed at women and mostly written by women is inferior to the two demographics aimed at men and mostly written by men". Nothing bad about that implication? Nothing at all? So you really don't think a Shoujo can be in someone's top 50? Really? Kira_Illusionist said: The female protagonist aimed at female demographic is a very unlikeable Female Lead 90% of the time... It's true for Shoujo, Josei, Korean Drama, Chinese Drama, Japanese Drama and even Books... That was my complaint from the start, Shoujo Female Leads are unlikeable... If you want Shonen fans, Seinen fans, especially men to watch female demographic then the female leads have to be likeable for them.... If Shoujo will keep on producing unlikeable Female Leads Shonen fans and men will not turn their way Female protagonist aimed at Male demographic do fine by the way... Look at Maomao, Frieren, Mitsumi (Skip to loafer)... So "female protagonist" is not the problem, it is the "aimed at female demographic" that is the problem... I don't understand why writers write unlikeable female leads for female demographic... Is it the problem the writers or the female demographic?? I am not sure "Women are only good when they're palatable to the male audience. Other than that, they're useless and terrible characters!" Kira_Illusionist said: Shoujo and Josei works are not good enough for Shonen fans... The peak Shoujo of Fruits Basket, Nana etc is not good enough for them to come back to it... Infact if they only watched Nana, then it is pretty reasonable to avoid shoujo altogether forever... "Stories aimed at women and written by women are just flat out inferior to stories aimed at men and written by men!" Kira_Illusionist said: Again, it is completely reasonable if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen or vice versa... It is completely reasonable if you ONLY WATCH YOUR PREFERRED SHOWS AND NOT OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS... Saying something is not good is not insulting it... Even look at this post... It is not "Do you hate Shonen???", it is "Do you hate Shonen FANS???"... This post is about people not anime... STOP INSULTING PEOPLE FOR THEIR ANIME WATCHING HABITS Except, you and a few others are commenting about hating Shoujo fans. Yet dislike this post. 🤔 So Shounen fans are able to complain about Shoujo fans and Seinen elitists, but people can't complain about Shounen fans? Especially since Shounen fans are the most closed minded. Kira_Illusionist said: STOP INSULTING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO WATCH SHOUJO... STOP CLAIMING SEXISM WHEN SHOUJO IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH TIME INVESTMENT FOR SHONEN FANS... IF YOU THINK SHOUJO IS BETTER THAN SHONEN IT IS COMPLETELY FINE, IT IS ALSO COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE THINK SHONEN IS BETTER THAN SHOUJO... IT IS COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH SHONEN (but they don't have a choice but to watch it, cuz if you wanna watch great anime you really cannot avoid shonen) BUT IT IS NOT FINE TO HATE AND INSULT PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T WATCH SHONEN... LIKEWISE, IT IS COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH SHOUJO... THERE IS NO NEED TO ATTACK THEM WITH "SEXISM","MISOGYNY","CLOSE MINDED".... IF YOU DO THAT, THEN IT IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR AND NEEDS TO BE CALLED OUT... SHOUJO FANS ARE THE MOST TOXIC FANS IN ANIME Except, you've proven your misogyny in this entire thread. Kira_Illusionist said: Watching Shoujo has no value for us.. "No one cares about female characters or female writers! They're inferior to men! We only like female characters that are appealing to men! If they don't appeal to men, then they really shouldn't exist!" |
Apr 5, 2:10 PM
#114
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
@LuxuriousHeart @jacobPOL
Come on LuxuriousHeart, he was talking about looking down on PEOPLE, the novel readers, not the actual novels.... If you want to look down on Young Adult novels go ahead, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who actually read Young Adult Novels... If you think Adult Novels are not good enough then that's the end of it...
In reverse, if you enjoy Young Adult novels great, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who avoid Young Adult Novels like a plague... Accept that Young Adult novels are not for everyone without insulting them
If you enjoy Shoujo, great, but you don't have to right to look down/insult PEOPLE who avoid Shoujo like a plague
If you don't enjoy Shonen that much, fine, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who enjoy Shonen... Don't attack their characters and intelligence because that is Toxic behaviour
Shonen fans don't attack people if they say "I don't like Shonen so I won't watch it" but Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence if they say "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it"...
Shonen fans saying Shonen is the best is not looking down on other demographics... There is nothing problematic about it, nothing to complain about
Come on LuxuriousHeart, he was talking about looking down on PEOPLE, the novel readers, not the actual novels.... If you want to look down on Young Adult novels go ahead, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who actually read Young Adult Novels... If you think Adult Novels are not good enough then that's the end of it...
In reverse, if you enjoy Young Adult novels great, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who avoid Young Adult Novels like a plague... Accept that Young Adult novels are not for everyone without insulting them
If you enjoy Shoujo, great, but you don't have to right to look down/insult PEOPLE who avoid Shoujo like a plague
If you don't enjoy Shonen that much, fine, but you don't have the right to look down on PEOPLE who enjoy Shonen... Don't attack their characters and intelligence because that is Toxic behaviour
Shonen fans don't attack people if they say "I don't like Shonen so I won't watch it" but Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence if they say "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it"...
LuxuriousHeart said:
Shounen fans ironically look down on some other demographics...
Shounen fans ironically look down on some other demographics...
Shonen fans saying Shonen is the best is not looking down on other demographics... There is nothing problematic about it, nothing to complain about
| @Kira_Illusionist Haven't you been looking down on Shoujo fans? 🤔 Except, you literally trashed Shoujo fans and the quality of works. Most people actually watch and enjoy Shounen. It's Shounen fans that trash other demographics and fans of said demographics. Shounen fans making entire memes about Seinen elitists and trashing Shoujo fans on social media... Shounen fans have made memes about Seinen elitists btw... And they've trashed Shoujo fans. Shounen fans do more than just claim they have the best demographic... Kind of like you writing in bold letters calling Shoujo fans toxic, and Shounen fans making memes about Seinen elitists. But no... Shounen fans are angels... They're victims... |
Apr 5, 4:48 PM
#115
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
Kira_Illusionist said:
NO... Using words like "Incel", "Sexist", "Closed minded", "Misogynistic" is insulting... Saying Shoujo is better than Shonen OR Shonen is better than Shoujo is not insulting... How is "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" insulting Shoujo?????? Instead isn't that the better behaviour to not watch something you don't like rather than insulting someone for not liking what you like????? Shoujo fans are THE most toxic anime fandom... They insult/attack people for not liking Shoujo, for not watching Shoujo
If you think someone saying Shonen is better than Shoujo is insulting entire Shoujo, I really cannot help you... How is thinking 1 thing is better than 2nd thing insulting the 2nd thing????? See if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen, think away... But don't insult people by calling them unnecessary names if they say Shonen is better than Shoujo
In your reply you said I insulted Shoujo multiple times when I said Shonen > Shoujo... That is not insulting Shoujo and that is also not insulting Shoujo fans... But what you are doing + what most of the Shoujo fandom does, "If you don't watch Shoujo, you are closed minded... If you don't have Shoujo works on your top anime list, then you are mysogynistic... If you don't like CardCaptor Sakura as much as you like Naruto or DBZ then you are a sexist" THAT IS INSULTING PEOPLE, THAT IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR
NO... Using words like "Incel", "Sexist", "Closed minded", "Misogynistic" is insulting... Saying Shoujo is better than Shonen OR Shonen is better than Shoujo is not insulting... How is "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" insulting Shoujo?????? Instead isn't that the better behaviour to not watch something you don't like rather than insulting someone for not liking what you like????? Shoujo fans are THE most toxic anime fandom... They insult/attack people for not liking Shoujo, for not watching Shoujo
If you think someone saying Shonen is better than Shoujo is insulting entire Shoujo, I really cannot help you... How is thinking 1 thing is better than 2nd thing insulting the 2nd thing????? See if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen, think away... But don't insult people by calling them unnecessary names if they say Shonen is better than Shoujo
In your reply you said I insulted Shoujo multiple times when I said Shonen > Shoujo... That is not insulting Shoujo and that is also not insulting Shoujo fans... But what you are doing + what most of the Shoujo fandom does, "If you don't watch Shoujo, you are closed minded... If you don't have Shoujo works on your top anime list, then you are mysogynistic... If you don't like CardCaptor Sakura as much as you like Naruto or DBZ then you are a sexist" THAT IS INSULTING PEOPLE, THAT IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR
See, it's this comment that makes me not take you seriously... Take in mind, I don't even like all Shoujo fans. However, Shoujo fans pointing out the misogyny within a fandom is not a real issue. Also, Shield Hero did act like an incel.
Also, you act as if the writing is inferior to Shounen and Seinen... "Two entire demographics aimed at women and mostly written by women is inferior to the two demographics aimed at men and mostly written by men". Nothing bad about that implication? Nothing at all?
So you really don't think a Shoujo can be in someone's top 50? Really?
Kira_Illusionist said:
The female protagonist aimed at female demographic is a very unlikeable Female Lead 90% of the time... It's true for Shoujo, Josei, Korean Drama, Chinese Drama, Japanese Drama and even Books... That was my complaint from the start, Shoujo Female Leads are unlikeable... If you want Shonen fans, Seinen fans, especially men to watch female demographic then the female leads have to be likeable for them.... If Shoujo will keep on producing unlikeable Female Leads Shonen fans and men will not turn their way
Female protagonist aimed at Male demographic do fine by the way... Look at Maomao, Frieren, Mitsumi (Skip to loafer)... So "female protagonist" is not the problem, it is the "aimed at female demographic" that is the problem... I don't understand why writers write unlikeable female leads for female demographic... Is it the problem the writers or the female demographic?? I am not sure
The female protagonist aimed at female demographic is a very unlikeable Female Lead 90% of the time... It's true for Shoujo, Josei, Korean Drama, Chinese Drama, Japanese Drama and even Books... That was my complaint from the start, Shoujo Female Leads are unlikeable... If you want Shonen fans, Seinen fans, especially men to watch female demographic then the female leads have to be likeable for them.... If Shoujo will keep on producing unlikeable Female Leads Shonen fans and men will not turn their way
Female protagonist aimed at Male demographic do fine by the way... Look at Maomao, Frieren, Mitsumi (Skip to loafer)... So "female protagonist" is not the problem, it is the "aimed at female demographic" that is the problem... I don't understand why writers write unlikeable female leads for female demographic... Is it the problem the writers or the female demographic?? I am not sure
"Women are only good when they're palatable to the male audience. Other than that, they're useless and terrible characters!"
Kira_Illusionist said:
Shoujo and Josei works are not good enough for Shonen fans... The peak Shoujo of Fruits Basket, Nana etc is not good enough for them to come back to it... Infact if they only watched Nana, then it is pretty reasonable to avoid shoujo altogether forever...
Shoujo and Josei works are not good enough for Shonen fans... The peak Shoujo of Fruits Basket, Nana etc is not good enough for them to come back to it... Infact if they only watched Nana, then it is pretty reasonable to avoid shoujo altogether forever...
"Stories aimed at women and written by women are just flat out inferior to stories aimed at men and written by men!"
Kira_Illusionist said:
Again, it is completely reasonable if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen or vice versa... It is completely reasonable if you ONLY WATCH YOUR PREFERRED SHOWS AND NOT OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS... Saying something is not good is not insulting it... Even look at this post... It is not "Do you hate Shonen???", it is "Do you hate Shonen FANS???"... This post is about people not anime... STOP INSULTING PEOPLE FOR THEIR ANIME WATCHING HABITS
Again, it is completely reasonable if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen or vice versa... It is completely reasonable if you ONLY WATCH YOUR PREFERRED SHOWS AND NOT OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS... Saying something is not good is not insulting it... Even look at this post... It is not "Do you hate Shonen???", it is "Do you hate Shonen FANS???"... This post is about people not anime... STOP INSULTING PEOPLE FOR THEIR ANIME WATCHING HABITS
Except, you and a few others are commenting about hating Shoujo fans. Yet dislike this post. 🤔 So Shounen fans are able to complain about Shoujo fans and Seinen elitists, but people can't complain about Shounen fans? Especially since Shounen fans are the most closed minded.
Kira_Illusionist said:
STOP INSULTING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO WATCH SHOUJO... STOP CLAIMING SEXISM WHEN SHOUJO IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH TIME INVESTMENT FOR SHONEN FANS... IF YOU THINK SHOUJO IS BETTER THAN SHONEN IT IS COMPLETELY FINE, IT IS ALSO COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE THINK SHONEN IS BETTER THAN SHOUJO... IT IS COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH SHONEN (but they don't have a choice but to watch it, cuz if you wanna watch great anime you really cannot avoid shonen) BUT IT IS NOT FINE TO HATE AND INSULT PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T WATCH SHONEN... LIKEWISE, IT IS COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH SHOUJO... THERE IS NO NEED TO ATTACK THEM WITH "SEXISM","MISOGYNY","CLOSE MINDED".... IF YOU DO THAT, THEN IT IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR AND NEEDS TO BE CALLED OUT... SHOUJO FANS ARE THE MOST TOXIC FANS IN ANIME
STOP INSULTING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO WATCH SHOUJO... STOP CLAIMING SEXISM WHEN SHOUJO IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH TIME INVESTMENT FOR SHONEN FANS... IF YOU THINK SHOUJO IS BETTER THAN SHONEN IT IS COMPLETELY FINE, IT IS ALSO COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE THINK SHONEN IS BETTER THAN SHOUJO... IT IS COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH SHONEN (but they don't have a choice but to watch it, cuz if you wanna watch great anime you really cannot avoid shonen) BUT IT IS NOT FINE TO HATE AND INSULT PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T WATCH SHONEN... LIKEWISE, IT IS COMPLETELY FINE IF PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH SHOUJO... THERE IS NO NEED TO ATTACK THEM WITH "SEXISM","MISOGYNY","CLOSE MINDED".... IF YOU DO THAT, THEN IT IS TOXIC BEHAVIOUR AND NEEDS TO BE CALLED OUT... SHOUJO FANS ARE THE MOST TOXIC FANS IN ANIME
Except, you've proven your misogyny in this entire thread.
Kira_Illusionist said:
Watching Shoujo has no value for us..
Watching Shoujo has no value for us..
"No one cares about female characters or female writers! They're inferior to men! We only like female characters that are appealing to men! If they don't appeal to men, then they really shouldn't exist!"
LuxuriousHeart said: Except, you and a few others are commenting about hating Shoujo fans. What? When did I hate Shoujo fans??? So pointing out things like attacking people's character and intelligence is Toxic and Shoujo fans including you does this behaviour and asking for it to stop is hating Shoujo fans???? Did I hate you just because you are a Shoujo Fan??? When did I even hate you??? I don't think hate is the emotion present in this conversation at all... Since Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence they are the most Toxic fandom in anime... And I have shown you multiple evidences that show how even you attacked people's(mine) character when discussing something about anime... LuxuriousHeart said: "Women are only good when they're palatable to the male audience. Other than that, they're useless and terrible characters!" I don't think you are reading my messages properly.... I talked about UNLIKEABLE FEMALE PROTAGONISTS not "GOOD" female protagonists.... You are the one equating "likeable" to "good"... For example, Naofumi in Shield Hero is a good character, any man who got caught in false rape cases will have a reaction like that, but that doesn't mean that he is a likeable character for everyone... Just because Naofumi isn't likeable doesn't make him badly written character either... But it is completely fair if you drop the show for the single reason that you did not like Naofumi... I am not calling you "closed minded, Misandristic, sexist etc" for dropping a show because you did not like it's protagonist... I am not complaining to you that you did not give it a fair chance either... I only said don't use insults Even then Shonen is so diverse that Naofumi and Naruto coexist in a single demographic... That is why even though most shoujo fans hates characters like Naofumi, they would still find in enjoyment in other Shonen works because of ABUNDANCE OF UNIVERSALLY LIKEABLE MALE LEADS in Shounen... Atleast 50% of male leads in Shonen is likeable to every demographic (male, female, old, young, traditional, non traditional) not just boys... The same cannot be said about Female Protagonists of Shoujo... Do an excercise, open MAL pages of highly rated Shounen and Shoujo anime and see who is the most liked character in that anime... See how often that the Male Lead of Shounen is the most liked character and how often the Female Lead is NOT THE MOST LIKED character... That should give you an idea of how unpopular Female Protagonists of Shoujo anime are... Miyamura is the most favourited character in Horimiya and that's why Shoujo fans also liked it... If Shoujo fans liked a Shonen anime, the chances of the most liked Character in that anime being Male Lead are very very very high... In how many Shoujo anime, especially the modern ones, have the Female Protagonist as the most favourited Character??? Just like how you have the right to not like Naofumi, we also have the right to not like any Female Protagonist we want... Just like you have your own definition of Likeable Male Protagonist, we also have our own definition of Likeable Female Protagonist... Just like how we don't have a say in YOUR definition fo "Likeable Male Lead", you also don't have any say in our definition of "Likeable Female Lead" LuxuriousHeart said: but people can't complain about Shounen fans? People can complain about Shonen fans.... Just don't insult them and attack their characters and intelligence.... Calling shounen fans closed minded is not complaining, it is insulting them... From the start I used the phrase "don't insult, don't attack people's character and intelligence"... When did I ever say don't complain??? See getting involved in a false rape case has to be one of the top 5 worst/tramautic things a human being goes through that doesn't involve death... Change in Naofumi's behaviour because of his despair is completely reasonable... I did not call you a man hater for not having empathy for men who are victims of false rape cases... I just wanted you to stop insulting Naofumi that's it... I only said that... I never attacked you, I only said STOP INSULTING When did I talk about individuals list??? I am talking about PRESENT MAL TOP ANIME LIST, which is compiled BY TAKING COLLECTIVE INFORMATION FROM THE WHOLE SITE!! For a Shoujo fanatic, all top 50 would be shoujo anime, what is surprising about that... I am talking about the collective opinion from all genders and demographics of this site... I clearly mentioned MAL TOP ANIME LIST didn't I??? Then why are you twisting my words again and talk about an individual list??? I never even used the number 50... The only numbers I used are 500, 100 and 20... I also talked about top 20 APPEALING ANIME FOR A CASUAL WATCHER (appealing being the key word) and yes Shoujo anime wouldn't make that cut... If we talk aboout Top 100, 10 Shoujo anime would make the cut at best... LuxuriousHeart said: "Stories aimed at women and written by women are just flat out inferior to stories aimed at men and written by men!" Again, the gender of the author doesn't matter it is only the contents of the story and likability of the Characters... Why are you twisting my words again... From the beginning I kept telling you that the Female Protagonists are Unlikeable and that is the main problem to Shoujo... If authors write unlikable female leads no matter where it is it will be dropped... The gender of the author and the medium it doesn't matter... Likeable Female Lead romance written by Female authors are actually the most popular Shonen romances in the last 5 years Just because of Naofumi's unlikeability, it dropped the quality and enjoyment of the story in your eyes right?? It is the same for us... Unlikeable Female Protagonists just drop the quality of show for us too... That is why Shoujo is just not good enough for Shonen fans because of how unlikeable Female Protagonists are LuxuriousHeart said: If they don't appeal to men, then they really shouldn't exist!" Again, YOU ARE TWISTING MY WORDS!... Who said that Shoujo shouldn't exist???? It is actually the Shoujo Fans pushed for banning Shield Hero... No shonen fan have pushed for banning any Shoujo show ever... When did I say that "Shoujo should not exist"??? What did I say that??? Why are you imagining things that I did not even say??? LuxuriousHeart said: "No one cares about female characters or female writers! What are you even talking about???? From my first reply to you I said Female Lead that treats the Male Protagonist well is the most important metric for Shonen fans... Likewise having a Likeable Male Lead is the most important metric for Shoujo fans... Shoujo fans are lucky enough to find Likeable Male Leads in plenty of Shounen, since UNIVERSALLY Likeable Male Leads are very abundant in Shounen... But Shounen fans don't find likeable Female Protagonists often enough for them to come back to Shoujo... Likeable Female Lead romance written by Female authors are actually the most popular Shonen romances in the last 5 years... So the gender of the author really doesn't matter here, it is only the likability of female lead that matters the most LuxuriousHeart said: We only like female characters that are appealing to men! Wait... Didn't you drop Shield Hero because Naofumi was not appealing to you even though he was a well written character??? No... We want Female characters that are noble, chivalrous, kind, loyal to everyone including the Male Lead that they claim to love... No flirting with other male characters is actually the most important one... We also want men to act like realistic men, atleast some relatability with male characters would go a long way in our enjoyment... Make these changes in large number of Shoujo stories, and you will see Shonen fans and men slowly turning towards Shoujo... Until that happens, we won't waste our time Shonen also considers Shoujo fans when publishing stories while Shoujo just don't care how Shonen fans feelings at all... That's why there is value for Shoujo fans to consume Shonen and not enough value for Shonen fans to consume Shoujo Male Leads are bad and Female Leads are worst in the current landscape of Shoujo in the eyes of Shonen fans and Men Do you know that in Live action adaptation of Good Morning Call, the show makers decided that in order to make the story "better" they added a second male lead so the female lead could flirt with him... That is the reputation Shoujo fans have among Japan executives... Read Skip to Loafer author interviews... She said that publishing her story in Shoujo magazine gives her less freedom for her story when compared to a Seinen magazine and that is why she decided to publish it in a Seinen magazine... LuxuriousHeart said: Except, you've proven your misogyny in this entire thread. Again with the attacks on people's character... Give me step by step logic on how you arrived from my words to misogyny??? If you can't do that logically, then you need to take back your attack on my character.... And please stop making our conversation Toxic with your continuous insults to my character And also give me the statistics that claim Shonen fans just avoid Shoujo and Josei... I would like to have look at it |
Kira_IllusionistApr 5, 5:14 PM
Apr 5, 5:57 PM
#116
Kira_Illusionist said: Since Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence they are the most Toxic fandom in anime... And I have shown you multiple evidences that show how even you attacked people's(mine) character when discussing something about anime... Shounen fans have done the exact same, btw... The difference is, Shounen fans think they have the moral high ground for some reason. At least when Shoujo and Seinen fans look down on other demographics and its fans, they admit it and are still open to them. Shounen fans pretend they don't, even though they do, and play victim. Kira_Illusionist said: I talked about UNLIKEABLE FEMALE PROTAGONISTS not "GOOD" female protagonists.... You are the one equating "likeable" to "good"... For example, Naofumi in Shield Hero is a good character, any man who got caught in false rape cases will have a reaction like that, but that doesn't mean that he is a likeable character for everyone... Just because Naofumi isn't likeable doesn't make him badly written character either... But it is completely fair if you drop the show for the single reason that you did not like Naofumi... I am not calling you "closed minded, Misandristic, sexist etc" for dropping a show because you did not like it's protagonist... I am not complaining to you that you did not give it a fair chance either... I only said don't use insults Even then Shonen is so diverse that Naofumi and Naruto coexist in a single demographic... That is why even though most shoujo fans hates characters like Naofumi, they would still find in enjoyment in other Shonen works because of ABUNDANCE OF UNIVERSALLY LIKEABLE MALE LEADS in Shounen... Atleast 50% of male leads in Shonen is likeable to every demographic (male, female, old, young, traditional, non traditional) not just boys... "If a female character isn't tailored to the taste of men, they're unlikable garbage!" People can complain about Shonen fans.... Just don't insult them and attack their characters and intelligence.... Calling shounen fans closed minded is not complaining, it is insulting them... From the start I used the phrase "don't insult, don't attack people's character and intelligence"... When did I ever say don't complain??? And Shounen fans insult other fans by calling them elitists and clueless about demographics. While saying slurs to Shoujo fans and looking down on their demographic. Kira_Illusionist said: See getting involved in a false rape case has to be one of the top 5 worst/tramautic things a human being goes through that doesn't involve death... Are you actually serious about this??? 😐 For a Shoujo fanatic, all top 50 would be shoujo anime, what is surprising about that... Ironically, no... I've seen hardcore Shoujo fans, like the ultra girly romance and magical girl fans. The stereotypical Shoujo fan, and they still manage to have some Shounen and Seinen on their list. Kira_Illusionist said: Again, the gender of the author doesn't matter it is only the contents of the story and likability of the Characters... Why are you twisting my words again... From the beginning I kept telling you that the Female Protagonists are Unlikeable and that is the main problem to Shoujo... Except, you imply it. Most women write for Shoujo and Josei, and most men write for Shounen and Seinen. Shounen and Seinen is also aimed at guys. So you're basically saying that unless it's aimed at men, they're bad female characters. |
Apr 5, 5:59 PM
#117
| No not at all. Though I guess if they're only into anime that appeals to a western audience, they should broaden their horizons. They're missing out on some good stuff from other genres. |
Apr 5, 5:59 PM
#118
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
LuxuriousHeart said:
Except, you and a few others are commenting about hating Shoujo fans.
Except, you and a few others are commenting about hating Shoujo fans.
What? When did I hate Shoujo fans??? So pointing out things like attacking people's character and intelligence is Toxic and Shoujo fans including you does this behaviour and asking for it to stop is hating Shoujo fans???? Did I hate you just because you are a Shoujo Fan??? When did I even hate you???
I don't think hate is the emotion present in this conversation at all... Since Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence they are the most Toxic fandom in anime... And I have shown you multiple evidences that show how even you attacked people's(mine) character when discussing something about anime...
LuxuriousHeart said:
"Women are only good when they're palatable to the male audience. Other than that, they're useless and terrible characters!"
"Women are only good when they're palatable to the male audience. Other than that, they're useless and terrible characters!"
I don't think you are reading my messages properly.... I talked about UNLIKEABLE FEMALE PROTAGONISTS not "GOOD" female protagonists.... You are the one equating "likeable" to "good"... For example, Naofumi in Shield Hero is a good character, any man who got caught in false rape cases will have a reaction like that, but that doesn't mean that he is a likeable character for everyone... Just because Naofumi isn't likeable doesn't make him badly written character either... But it is completely fair if you drop the show for the single reason that you did not like Naofumi... I am not calling you "closed minded, Misandristic, sexist etc" for dropping a show because you did not like it's protagonist... I am not complaining to you that you did not give it a fair chance either... I only said don't use insults
Even then Shonen is so diverse that Naofumi and Naruto coexist in a single demographic... That is why even though most shoujo fans hates characters like Naofumi, they would still find in enjoyment in other Shonen works because of ABUNDANCE OF UNIVERSALLY LIKEABLE MALE LEADS in Shounen... Atleast 50% of male leads in Shonen is likeable to every demographic (male, female, old, young, traditional, non traditional) not just boys...
The same cannot be said about Female Protagonists of Shoujo... Do an excercise, open MAL pages of highly rated Shounen and Shoujo anime and see who is the most liked character in that anime... See how often that the Male Lead of Shounen is the most liked character and how often the Female Lead is NOT THE MOST LIKED character... That should give you an idea of how unpopular Female Protagonists of Shoujo anime are... Miyamura is the most favourited character in Horimiya and that's why Shoujo fans also liked it... If Shoujo fans liked a Shonen anime, the chances of the most liked Character in that anime being Male Lead are very very very high... In how many Shoujo anime, especially the modern ones, have the Female Protagonist as the most favourited Character???
Just like how you have the right to not like Naofumi, we also have the right to not like any Female Protagonist we want... Just like you have your own definition of Likeable Male Protagonist, we also have our own definition of Likeable Female Protagonist... Just like how we don't have a say in YOUR definition fo "Likeable Male Lead", you also don't have any say in our definition of "Likeable Female Lead"
LuxuriousHeart said:
but people can't complain about Shounen fans?
but people can't complain about Shounen fans?
People can complain about Shonen fans.... Just don't insult them and attack their characters and intelligence.... Calling shounen fans closed minded is not complaining, it is insulting them... From the start I used the phrase "don't insult, don't attack people's character and intelligence"... When did I ever say don't complain???
See getting involved in a false rape case has to be one of the top 5 worst/tramautic things a human being goes through that doesn't involve death... Change in Naofumi's behaviour because of his despair is completely reasonable... I did not call you a man hater for not having empathy for men who are victims of false rape cases... I just wanted you to stop insulting Naofumi that's it... I only said that... I never attacked you, I only said STOP INSULTING
When did I talk about individuals list??? I am talking about PRESENT MAL TOP ANIME LIST, which is compiled BY TAKING COLLECTIVE INFORMATION FROM THE WHOLE SITE!! For a Shoujo fanatic, all top 50 would be shoujo anime, what is surprising about that... I am talking about the collective opinion from all genders and demographics of this site... I clearly mentioned MAL TOP ANIME LIST didn't I??? Then why are you twisting my words again and talk about an individual list??? I never even used the number 50... The only numbers I used are 500, 100 and 20... I also talked about top 20 APPEALING ANIME FOR A CASUAL WATCHER (appealing being the key word) and yes Shoujo anime wouldn't make that cut... If we talk aboout Top 100, 10 Shoujo anime would make the cut at best...
LuxuriousHeart said:
"Stories aimed at women and written by women are just flat out inferior to stories aimed at men and written by men!"
"Stories aimed at women and written by women are just flat out inferior to stories aimed at men and written by men!"
Again, the gender of the author doesn't matter it is only the contents of the story and likability of the Characters... Why are you twisting my words again... From the beginning I kept telling you that the Female Protagonists are Unlikeable and that is the main problem to Shoujo... If authors write unlikable female leads no matter where it is it will be dropped... The gender of the author and the medium it doesn't matter... Likeable Female Lead romance written by Female authors are actually the most popular Shonen romances in the last 5 years
Just because of Naofumi's unlikeability, it dropped the quality and enjoyment of the story in your eyes right?? It is the same for us... Unlikeable Female Protagonists just drop the quality of show for us too... That is why Shoujo is just not good enough for Shonen fans because of how unlikeable Female Protagonists are
LuxuriousHeart said:
If they don't appeal to men, then they really shouldn't exist!"
If they don't appeal to men, then they really shouldn't exist!"
Again, YOU ARE TWISTING MY WORDS!... Who said that Shoujo shouldn't exist???? It is actually the Shoujo Fans pushed for banning Shield Hero... No shonen fan have pushed for banning any Shoujo show ever... When did I say that "Shoujo should not exist"??? What did I say that??? Why are you imagining things that I did not even say???
LuxuriousHeart said:
"No one cares about female characters or female writers!
"No one cares about female characters or female writers!
What are you even talking about???? From my first reply to you I said Female Lead that treats the Male Protagonist well is the most important metric for Shonen fans... Likewise having a Likeable Male Lead is the most important metric for Shoujo fans... Shoujo fans are lucky enough to find Likeable Male Leads in plenty of Shounen, since UNIVERSALLY Likeable Male Leads are very abundant in Shounen... But Shounen fans don't find likeable Female Protagonists often enough for them to come back to Shoujo... Likeable Female Lead romance written by Female authors are actually the most popular Shonen romances in the last 5 years... So the gender of the author really doesn't matter here, it is only the likability of female lead that matters the most
LuxuriousHeart said:
We only like female characters that are appealing to men!
We only like female characters that are appealing to men!
Wait... Didn't you drop Shield Hero because Naofumi was not appealing to you even though he was a well written character???
No... We want Female characters that are noble, chivalrous, kind, loyal to everyone including the Male Lead that they claim to love... No flirting with other male characters is actually the most important one... We also want men to act like realistic men, atleast some relatability with male characters would go a long way in our enjoyment... Make these changes in large number of Shoujo stories, and you will see Shonen fans and men slowly turning towards Shoujo... Until that happens, we won't waste our time
Shonen also considers Shoujo fans when publishing stories while Shoujo just don't care how Shonen fans feelings at all... That's why there is value for Shoujo fans to consume Shonen and not enough value for Shonen fans to consume Shoujo
Male Leads are bad and Female Leads are worst in the current landscape of Shoujo in the eyes of Shonen fans and Men
Do you know that in Live action adaptation of Good Morning Call, the show makers decided that in order to make the story "better" they added a second male lead so the female lead could flirt with him... That is the reputation Shoujo fans have among Japan executives...
Read Skip to Loafer author interviews... She said that publishing her story in Shoujo magazine gives her less freedom for her story when compared to a Seinen magazine and that is why she decided to publish it in a Seinen magazine...
LuxuriousHeart said:
Except, you've proven your misogyny in this entire thread.
Except, you've proven your misogyny in this entire thread.
Again with the attacks on people's character... Give me step by step logic on how you arrived from my words to misogyny??? If you can't do that logically, then you need to take back your attack on my character.... And please stop making our conversation Toxic with your continuous insults to my character
And also give me the statistics that claim Shonen fans just avoid Shoujo and Josei... I would like to have look at it
| @Kira_Illusionist Also... I want to point out that Shield Hero isn't a Shounen, and it isn't liked by Shounen fans. When Shield Hero was published as a manga, it was released in Seinen magazines... And Shounen fans are the main ones making jokes about Isekai. |
Apr 5, 6:05 PM
#119
Reply to jacobPOL
@Kira_Illusionist thank you, it's just so tiring to see people looking down on people that enjoy certain demographics they do not like, overall every people that look down on someone because they enjoy something they do not like is just tiring.
| @jacobPOL Shounen fans are the main ones that do this... They're the main ones mocking Isekai series, calling Seinen fans Seinen elitists, made a meme about Kingdom of all things being niche, mocking Shoujo fans, mocking the Shoujo demographic, mocking anime that isn't ultra mainstream, even mocking Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies, etc. This thing about Shounen only fans being angels and victims is weird, when they're some of the most toxic people in the fandom. When even they don't like each other... I mean look at the mainstream series: - One Piece fans vs Dragon Ball fans - Big 3 fans fighting each other - Big 3 fans fighting the new gen Shounen fans - Older Shounen fans vs new gen Shounen fans - Ultra mainstream Shounen fans vs fans of Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies Shounen fans fight inward and outward. Yet someone manage to illicit a ton of sympathy and play the victim. |
Apr 5, 7:00 PM
#120
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
Kira_Illusionist said:
Since Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence they are the most Toxic fandom in anime... And I have shown you multiple evidences that show how even you attacked people's(mine) character when discussing something about anime...
Since Shoujo fans attack people's character and intelligence they are the most Toxic fandom in anime... And I have shown you multiple evidences that show how even you attacked people's(mine) character when discussing something about anime...
Shounen fans have done the exact same, btw... The difference is, Shounen fans think they have the moral high ground for some reason. At least when Shoujo and Seinen fans look down on other demographics and its fans, they admit it and are still open to them. Shounen fans pretend they don't, even though they do, and play victim.
Kira_Illusionist said:
I talked about UNLIKEABLE FEMALE PROTAGONISTS not "GOOD" female protagonists.... You are the one equating "likeable" to "good"... For example, Naofumi in Shield Hero is a good character, any man who got caught in false rape cases will have a reaction like that, but that doesn't mean that he is a likeable character for everyone... Just because Naofumi isn't likeable doesn't make him badly written character either... But it is completely fair if you drop the show for the single reason that you did not like Naofumi... I am not calling you "closed minded, Misandristic, sexist etc" for dropping a show because you did not like it's protagonist... I am not complaining to you that you did not give it a fair chance either... I only said don't use insults
Even then Shonen is so diverse that Naofumi and Naruto coexist in a single demographic... That is why even though most shoujo fans hates characters like Naofumi, they would still find in enjoyment in other Shonen works because of ABUNDANCE OF UNIVERSALLY LIKEABLE MALE LEADS in Shounen... Atleast 50% of male leads in Shonen is likeable to every demographic (male, female, old, young, traditional, non traditional) not just boys...
I talked about UNLIKEABLE FEMALE PROTAGONISTS not "GOOD" female protagonists.... You are the one equating "likeable" to "good"... For example, Naofumi in Shield Hero is a good character, any man who got caught in false rape cases will have a reaction like that, but that doesn't mean that he is a likeable character for everyone... Just because Naofumi isn't likeable doesn't make him badly written character either... But it is completely fair if you drop the show for the single reason that you did not like Naofumi... I am not calling you "closed minded, Misandristic, sexist etc" for dropping a show because you did not like it's protagonist... I am not complaining to you that you did not give it a fair chance either... I only said don't use insults
Even then Shonen is so diverse that Naofumi and Naruto coexist in a single demographic... That is why even though most shoujo fans hates characters like Naofumi, they would still find in enjoyment in other Shonen works because of ABUNDANCE OF UNIVERSALLY LIKEABLE MALE LEADS in Shounen... Atleast 50% of male leads in Shonen is likeable to every demographic (male, female, old, young, traditional, non traditional) not just boys...
"If a female character isn't tailored to the taste of men, they're unlikable garbage!"
People can complain about Shonen fans.... Just don't insult them and attack their characters and intelligence.... Calling shounen fans closed minded is not complaining, it is insulting them... From the start I used the phrase "don't insult, don't attack people's character and intelligence"... When did I ever say don't complain???
And Shounen fans insult other fans by calling them elitists and clueless about demographics. While saying slurs to Shoujo fans and looking down on their demographic.
Kira_Illusionist said:
See getting involved in a false rape case has to be one of the top 5 worst/tramautic things a human being goes through that doesn't involve death...
See getting involved in a false rape case has to be one of the top 5 worst/tramautic things a human being goes through that doesn't involve death...
Are you actually serious about this??? 😐
For a Shoujo fanatic, all top 50 would be shoujo anime, what is surprising about that...
Ironically, no... I've seen hardcore Shoujo fans, like the ultra girly romance and magical girl fans. The stereotypical Shoujo fan, and they still manage to have some Shounen and Seinen on their list.
Kira_Illusionist said:
Again, the gender of the author doesn't matter it is only the contents of the story and likability of the Characters... Why are you twisting my words again... From the beginning I kept telling you that the Female Protagonists are Unlikeable and that is the main problem to Shoujo...
Again, the gender of the author doesn't matter it is only the contents of the story and likability of the Characters... Why are you twisting my words again... From the beginning I kept telling you that the Female Protagonists are Unlikeable and that is the main problem to Shoujo...
Except, you imply it. Most women write for Shoujo and Josei, and most men write for Shounen and Seinen. Shounen and Seinen is also aimed at guys. So you're basically saying that unless it's aimed at men, they're bad female characters.
LuxuriousHeart said: "If a female character isn't tailored to the taste of men, they're unlikable garbage! Again... Look at MAL character favourites of Shoujo anime... Most of the character votes are given by Shoujo fans since everybody else wouldn't really bother to go that far... Even then the Female Lead is never the most liked character in their own anime unless MCs are all females... It is not about tailored to taste of men, it not tailored to taste of anybody... Nobody has the obligation to like you, you need to have redeeming qualities for people to like you... Even the hardcore Shoujo female fans don't like the female protagonist of Shoujo anime that much and you expect Shonen fans to like them??? Why are you making this a gender issue when those characters are not liked by anyone including their own demographic??? Shonen fans and Men are under no obligation to like any character of any gender whatsoever.... It is the Anime and Characters' job to attract us... Shoujo female Protagonist completely fails us at attracting us, they even do the damage of not wanting to watch another Shoujo anime ever again... The accountability is completely on the anime and characters and none on the Shonen fans and Men... LuxuriousHeart said: Shounen fans have done the exact same, btw Shonen fans called people Sexists, Misogynists, Misandrists???? Where??? Even in this whole thread, the only person who attacked other people's character is YOU... So you do admit Shoujo fans exhibit Toxic behaviour but claim that Shonen fans also exhibit the same attacking people's character behaviour... Show me some evidence that suggests that this is a regular occurrence.... The evidence till now suggests that 100% of Shoujo fans (cuz the only Shoujo fan here is you) attack other people's character Again where are the Statistics that showed Shonen fans avoid Shoujo and Josei??? Since you did not prove anything with your "misogyny" attack, I urge you to take it back |
Apr 5, 7:05 PM
#121
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
LuxuriousHeart said:
"If a female character isn't tailored to the taste of men, they're unlikable garbage!
"If a female character isn't tailored to the taste of men, they're unlikable garbage!
Again... Look at MAL character favourites of Shoujo anime... Most of the character votes are given by Shoujo fans since everybody else wouldn't really bother to go that far... Even then the Female Lead is never the most liked character in their own anime unless MCs are all females... It is not about tailored to taste of men, it not tailored to taste of anybody... Nobody has the obligation to like you, you need to have redeeming qualities for people to like you... Even the hardcore Shoujo female fans don't like the female protagonist of Shoujo anime that much and you expect Shonen fans to like them??? Why are you making this a gender issue when those characters are not liked by anyone including their own demographic???
Shonen fans and Men are under no obligation to like any character of any gender whatsoever.... It is the Anime and Characters' job to attract us... Shoujo female Protagonist completely fails us at attracting us, they even do the damage of not wanting to watch another Shoujo anime ever again... The accountability is completely on the anime and characters and none on the Shonen fans and Men...
LuxuriousHeart said:
Shounen fans have done the exact same, btw
Shounen fans have done the exact same, btw
Shonen fans called people Sexists, Misogynists, Misandrists???? Where??? Even in this whole thread, the only person who attacked other people's character is YOU... So you do admit Shoujo fans exhibit Toxic behaviour but claim that Shonen fans also exhibit the same attacking people's character behaviour... Show me some evidence that suggests that this is a regular occurrence.... The evidence till now suggests that 100% of Shoujo fans (cuz the only Shoujo fan here is you) attack other people's character
Again where are the Statistics that showed Shonen fans avoid Shoujo and Josei??? Since you did not prove anything with your "misogyny" attack, I urge you to take it back
| @Kira_Illusionist Shounen fans have called people elitists and misandrists several times before. They do it on social media. The first person who trash Shoujo was actually you and another person. Y'all invited it... Stats show that men make up less than 20% of Shoujo/Josei readers... You've shown your misogyny by dismissing female characters and two entire demographics aimed at girls... |
Apr 5, 7:08 PM
#122
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@jacobPOL Shounen fans are the main ones that do this... They're the main ones mocking Isekai series, calling Seinen fans Seinen elitists, made a meme about Kingdom of all things being niche, mocking Shoujo fans, mocking the Shoujo demographic, mocking anime that isn't ultra mainstream, even mocking Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies, etc.
This thing about Shounen only fans being angels and victims is weird, when they're some of the most toxic people in the fandom. When even they don't like each other... I mean look at the mainstream series:
- One Piece fans vs Dragon Ball fans
- Big 3 fans fighting each other
- Big 3 fans fighting the new gen Shounen fans
- Older Shounen fans vs new gen Shounen fans
- Ultra mainstream Shounen fans vs fans of Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies
Shounen fans fight inward and outward. Yet someone manage to illicit a ton of sympathy and play the victim.
This thing about Shounen only fans being angels and victims is weird, when they're some of the most toxic people in the fandom. When even they don't like each other... I mean look at the mainstream series:
- One Piece fans vs Dragon Ball fans
- Big 3 fans fighting each other
- Big 3 fans fighting the new gen Shounen fans
- Older Shounen fans vs new gen Shounen fans
- Ultra mainstream Shounen fans vs fans of Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies
Shounen fans fight inward and outward. Yet someone manage to illicit a ton of sympathy and play the victim.
| @LuxuriousHeart LuxuriousHeart said: They're the main ones mocking Isekai series, calling Seinen fans Seinen elitists, made a meme about Kingdom of all things being niche, mocking Shoujo fans, mocking the Shoujo demographic, mocking anime that isn't ultra mainstream, even mocking Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies, etc Where is the attack on people's character and insults???? If they say Isekai is bad, it's fine, it's valid... "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" mocking Shoujo demographic and Shoujo fans isn't it??? Why are you so offended if people just didn't like watching Shoujo that is making you attack and insult people?? LuxuriousHeart said: One Piece fans vs Dragon Ball fans - Big 3 fans fighting each other - Big 3 fans fighting the new gen Shounen fans - Older Shounen fans vs new gen Shounen fans - Ultra mainstream Shounen fans vs fans of Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies Again all of these are not attacking people's character or insulting them... How One piece fans and DBZ fans fighting about which anime is superior even attacking someone's character??? Shoujo fans are the ONLY FANDOM in anime that attack people's character and intelligence with insults like "Closed minded, Incel, Sexist, Misogynistic", they are soo Toxic that they don't even leave kids from their insults... Imagine calling Kids sexists for not liking Shoujo anime... It is YOU who did that |
Apr 5, 7:17 PM
#123
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@Kira_Illusionist Shounen fans have called people elitists and misandrists several times before. They do it on social media.
The first person who trash Shoujo was actually you and another person. Y'all invited it...
Stats show that men make up less than 20% of Shoujo/Josei readers...
You've shown your misogyny by dismissing female characters and two entire demographics aimed at girls...
The first person who trash Shoujo was actually you and another person. Y'all invited it...
Stats show that men make up less than 20% of Shoujo/Josei readers...
You've shown your misogyny by dismissing female characters and two entire demographics aimed at girls...
| @LuxuriousHeart LuxuriousHeart said: You've shown your misogyny by dismissing female characters and two entire demographics aimed at girls... See... You are doing it again... How is "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" make anyone Misogynistic????? See how Toxic Shoujo fans are... How can you think that there is nothing wrong with Shoujo stories and anyone who doesn't like them should be some sort of Sexist??? You said stats show that SHONEN fans actively avoid Shoujo and Josei... LuxuriousHeart said: The first person who trash Shoujo was actually you and another person. Who trashed Shoujo???? I said Shoujo fans actually complain about Shonen a lot, they attack people for not watching Shoujo, hence SHoujo fans are most Toxic.... All of those comments came true by your replies btw... When did I even comment on Shoujo works in that reply??? |
Apr 5, 8:50 PM
#124
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
@LuxuriousHeart
Where is the attack on people's character and insults???? If they say Isekai is bad, it's fine, it's valid... "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" mocking Shoujo demographic and Shoujo fans isn't it??? Why are you so offended if people just didn't like watching Shoujo that is making you attack and insult people??
Again all of these are not attacking people's character or insulting them... How One piece fans and DBZ fans fighting about which anime is superior even attacking someone's character???
Shoujo fans are the ONLY FANDOM in anime that attack people's character and intelligence with insults like "Closed minded, Incel, Sexist, Misogynistic", they are soo Toxic that they don't even leave kids from their insults... Imagine calling Kids sexists for not liking Shoujo anime... It is YOU who did that
LuxuriousHeart said:
They're the main ones mocking Isekai series, calling Seinen fans Seinen elitists, made a meme about Kingdom of all things being niche, mocking Shoujo fans, mocking the Shoujo demographic, mocking anime that isn't ultra mainstream, even mocking Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies, etc
They're the main ones mocking Isekai series, calling Seinen fans Seinen elitists, made a meme about Kingdom of all things being niche, mocking Shoujo fans, mocking the Shoujo demographic, mocking anime that isn't ultra mainstream, even mocking Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies, etc
Where is the attack on people's character and insults???? If they say Isekai is bad, it's fine, it's valid... "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" mocking Shoujo demographic and Shoujo fans isn't it??? Why are you so offended if people just didn't like watching Shoujo that is making you attack and insult people??
LuxuriousHeart said:
One Piece fans vs Dragon Ball fans
- Big 3 fans fighting each other
- Big 3 fans fighting the new gen Shounen fans
- Older Shounen fans vs new gen Shounen fans
- Ultra mainstream Shounen fans vs fans of Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies
One Piece fans vs Dragon Ball fans
- Big 3 fans fighting each other
- Big 3 fans fighting the new gen Shounen fans
- Older Shounen fans vs new gen Shounen fans
- Ultra mainstream Shounen fans vs fans of Shounen series that sell less than 50 million copies
Again all of these are not attacking people's character or insulting them... How One piece fans and DBZ fans fighting about which anime is superior even attacking someone's character???
Shoujo fans are the ONLY FANDOM in anime that attack people's character and intelligence with insults like "Closed minded, Incel, Sexist, Misogynistic", they are soo Toxic that they don't even leave kids from their insults... Imagine calling Kids sexists for not liking Shoujo anime... It is YOU who did that
| @Kira_Illusionist So if Shounen fans dislike Isekai, it's valid. If Shoujo fans hate it, they're misandrists and toxic? Have you not seen Shounen fandoms fighting each other? They definitely attack the fans and series. Shoujo fans are not, but keep up the lies... |
Apr 5, 8:52 PM
#125
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
@LuxuriousHeart
See... You are doing it again... How is "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" make anyone Misogynistic????? See how Toxic Shoujo fans are... How can you think that there is nothing wrong with Shoujo stories and anyone who doesn't like them should be some sort of Sexist???
You said stats show that SHONEN fans actively avoid Shoujo and Josei...
Who trashed Shoujo???? I said Shoujo fans actually complain about Shonen a lot, they attack people for not watching Shoujo, hence SHoujo fans are most Toxic.... All of those comments came true by your replies btw... When did I even comment on Shoujo works in that reply???
LuxuriousHeart said:
You've shown your misogyny by dismissing female characters and two entire demographics aimed at girls...
You've shown your misogyny by dismissing female characters and two entire demographics aimed at girls...
See... You are doing it again... How is "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" make anyone Misogynistic????? See how Toxic Shoujo fans are... How can you think that there is nothing wrong with Shoujo stories and anyone who doesn't like them should be some sort of Sexist???
You said stats show that SHONEN fans actively avoid Shoujo and Josei...
LuxuriousHeart said:
The first person who trash Shoujo was actually you and another person.
The first person who trash Shoujo was actually you and another person.
Who trashed Shoujo???? I said Shoujo fans actually complain about Shonen a lot, they attack people for not watching Shoujo, hence SHoujo fans are most Toxic.... All of those comments came true by your replies btw... When did I even comment on Shoujo works in that reply???
| @Kira_Illusionist If you actively find two demographics mostly written by women and aimed at women as inferior, then that's flat out misogyny. Most Shounen fans are men... Literally on the first page... |
Apr 5, 10:44 PM
#126
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@Kira_Illusionist So if Shounen fans dislike Isekai, it's valid. If Shoujo fans hate it, they're misandrists and toxic?
Have you not seen Shounen fandoms fighting each other? They definitely attack the fans and series.
Shoujo fans are not, but keep up the lies...
Have you not seen Shounen fandoms fighting each other? They definitely attack the fans and series.
Shoujo fans are not, but keep up the lies...
| @LuxuriousHeart LuxuriousHeart said: So if Shounen fans dislike Isekai, it's valid. If Shoujo fans hate it, they're misandrists and toxic? I particularly wrote about this many many times to you in my replies... If you wanna hate Shonen, if you just don't wanna watch Shonen, if you think Shoujo is better than Shonen, go ahead... Just because you don't like Shonen, that doesn't make you a sexist or misandrist... Kira_Illusionist said: Why would hating (instead of just not liking/not watching) Shoujo make someone Mysogynistic??? Does hating Shonen mean they are Misandristic??? of course not! That was my exact quote from previous reply... I am getting the feeling of you just not reading my replies at all... From the start I said only 1 thing, don't attack people's character and insult them... LuxuriousHeart said: If you actively find two demographics mostly written by women and aimed at women as inferior, then that's flat out misogyny. How exactly??? This was straight up addressed by other user too... Does people who don't like reading Young Adult novels HATE YOUNG Adults??? Does people who don't like anime are racists towards Japanese??? People who don't like to watch Bollywood movies are racists towards Indians?????? and what does "actively find" even mean??? what are you accusing of me again??? Why these constant attacks to my character just because I don't like Shoujo??? LuxuriousHeart said: Shoujo fans are not, but keep up the lies. What do you mean????? You were the one constantly attacking my character just because I don't like Shoujo.... From the early replies I called out this behaviour from Shoujo fans.. See my previous replies Kira_Illusionist said: If you go and say "I don't like Shounen so I won't watch it" to Shounen fans they won't insult you, they say you are missing out or insist you watch it but they won't insult you... Same with Seinen fans... But if you go to Shoujo fans and say "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" you will be insulted... They will call you close minded, sexists and all other insults that attack your character and intelligence... You even called them close minded just because Shounen fans don't like to watch Shoujo Kira_Illusionist said: See again you are using insults like mysogynistic... Why would hating (instead of just not liking/not watching) Shoujo make someone Mysogynistic??? Does hating Shonen mean they are Misandristic??? of course not!... This is why Shoujo fans are very Toxic, they insult on someone's character just because they don't like watching Shoujo... JUST LIKE I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS REPLY Shoujo fans insult people's character if the say "I don't like Shoujo so I won't watch it" while Shonen fans don't do that... Shoujo fans make anime discussions Toxic by insulting people's character and intelligence hence they are the most Toxic fandom in anime ONLY SHOUJO FANS ATTACK YOUR CHARACTER JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEIR SHOUJO... No other fandom does this to people LuxuriousHeart said: Have you not seen Shounen fandoms fighting each other? They definitely attack the fans and series. Ya, but they don't attack character of other people.... They never stoop to insults like Sexist, Misogynist that actually attack the integrity of a person... Onepiece fans will say Naruto is Shit and Naruto fans will say Onepiece is shit... Everyone has their own preferences and tastes LuxuriousHeart said: Most Shounen fans are men... Ya and most Shoujo fans are women... They successfully attracted their target demographic, they did their job... Shonen also did incredible job of attracting people across multiple countries, across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums... Shoujo failed to did that... If Shoujo want to attract multiple people across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums, across multiple cultures, Shoujo needs to step up Why are you not addressing the unlikeable female protagonist problem in Shoujo... Do the experiment below Kira_Illusionist said: Look at MAL character favourites of Shoujo anime... Most of the character votes are given by Shoujo fans since everybody else wouldn't really bother to go that far... Even then the Female Lead is never the most liked character in their own anime unless MCs are all females... It is not about tailored to taste of men, its not tailored to taste of anybody... Nobody has the obligation to like you, you need to have redeeming qualities for people to like you... Even the hardcore Shoujo female fans don't like the female protagonist of Shoujo anime that much and you expect Shonen fans to like them??? Why are you making this a gender issue when those characters are not liked by anyone including their own demographic??? Shonen fans and Men are under no obligation to like any character of any gender whatsoever.... It is the Anime and Characters' job to attract us... Shoujo female Protagonist completely fails us at attracting us, they even do the damage of not wanting to watch another Shoujo anime ever again... The accountability is completely on the anime and characters and none on the Shonen fans and Men... STOP WITH THE TOXIC MENTALITY OF "IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE MY FAV DEMOGRAPHIC/SHOWS IT MEANS THEY ARE TERRIBLE PEOPLE"... NO OTHER FANDOM IN THE HISTORY OF FANDOMS THINK LIKE THIS |
Apr 5, 11:55 PM
#127
Kira_Illusionist said: How exactly??? This was straight up addressed by other user too... Does people who don't like reading Young Adult novels HATE YOUNG Adults??? Does people who don't like anime are racists towards Japanese??? People who don't like to watch Bollywood movies are racists towards Indians?????? Actually, yes. Not liking an entire industry or medium, simply because of a stereotype of a group of people, is prejudice. Kira_Illusionist said: Ya and most Shoujo fans are women... They successfully attracted their target demographic, they did their job... Shonen also did incredible job of attracting people across multiple countries, across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums... Shoujo failed to did that... If Shoujo want to attract multiple people across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums, across multiple cultures, Shoujo needs to step up Except, over 40% of Shounen and Seinen fans are women... There's a reason why women are open to male demographics, but men sneer down and avoid female demographics. |
Apr 6, 12:31 AM
#128
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
Kira_Illusionist said:
How exactly??? This was straight up addressed by other user too... Does people who don't like reading Young Adult novels HATE YOUNG Adults??? Does people who don't like anime are racists towards Japanese??? People who don't like to watch Bollywood movies are racists towards Indians??????
How exactly??? This was straight up addressed by other user too... Does people who don't like reading Young Adult novels HATE YOUNG Adults??? Does people who don't like anime are racists towards Japanese??? People who don't like to watch Bollywood movies are racists towards Indians??????
Actually, yes. Not liking an entire industry or medium, simply because of a stereotype of a group of people, is prejudice.
Kira_Illusionist said:
Ya and most Shoujo fans are women... They successfully attracted their target demographic, they did their job... Shonen also did incredible job of attracting people across multiple countries, across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums... Shoujo failed to did that... If Shoujo want to attract multiple people across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums, across multiple cultures, Shoujo needs to step up
Ya and most Shoujo fans are women... They successfully attracted their target demographic, they did their job... Shonen also did incredible job of attracting people across multiple countries, across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums... Shoujo failed to did that... If Shoujo want to attract multiple people across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums, across multiple cultures, Shoujo needs to step up
Except, over 40% of Shounen and Seinen fans are women... There's a reason why women are open to male demographics, but men sneer down and avoid female demographics.
LuxuriousHeart said: Except, over 40% of Shounen and Seinen fans are women... There's a reason why women are open to male demographics, but men sneer down and avoid female demographics. And it has nothing to do with women themselves or their assumed open-mindness. It's just a modern shounen is bland/sterile conveyor and has no focus on specific groups/niches anymore, it tries hard to appeal to everyone in the same time therefore actively losing any uniqueness while following most basic patterns ever. Seinen is basically dead if we compare its percentage to shounen. Shounen is just not appealing to males anymore, it's unisex while shoujo is still female-only oriented and therefore keeps being niche. Same happens with Japanese game industry too, a heavy turn to female audience with total ignoring of male audience which has no choice but follow trend with inertia. |
Apr 6, 12:40 AM
#129
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
Kira_Illusionist said:
How exactly??? This was straight up addressed by other user too... Does people who don't like reading Young Adult novels HATE YOUNG Adults??? Does people who don't like anime are racists towards Japanese??? People who don't like to watch Bollywood movies are racists towards Indians??????
How exactly??? This was straight up addressed by other user too... Does people who don't like reading Young Adult novels HATE YOUNG Adults??? Does people who don't like anime are racists towards Japanese??? People who don't like to watch Bollywood movies are racists towards Indians??????
Actually, yes. Not liking an entire industry or medium, simply because of a stereotype of a group of people, is prejudice.
Kira_Illusionist said:
Ya and most Shoujo fans are women... They successfully attracted their target demographic, they did their job... Shonen also did incredible job of attracting people across multiple countries, across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums... Shoujo failed to did that... If Shoujo want to attract multiple people across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums, across multiple cultures, Shoujo needs to step up
Ya and most Shoujo fans are women... They successfully attracted their target demographic, they did their job... Shonen also did incredible job of attracting people across multiple countries, across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums... Shoujo failed to did that... If Shoujo want to attract multiple people across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums, across multiple cultures, Shoujo needs to step up
Except, over 40% of Shounen and Seinen fans are women... There's a reason why women are open to male demographics, but men sneer down and avoid female demographics.
| @LuxuriousHeart LuxuriousHeart said: Actually, yes. Not liking an entire industry or medium, simply because of a stereotype of a group of people, is prejudice. When did stereotype creep in here??? What stereotype about Japanese people turn people away from anime??? So if a Japanese person meet a foreigner and they learn that foreigner don't watch anime, they should treat that foreigner as a RACIST???? STOP THIS TOXIC MENTALITY... Not liking anime doesn't make you a racist!! Not liking Bollywood movies doesn't make you a racist!! TIME AND TIME AGAIN YOU PROVE THAT SHOUJO FANS ARE THE MOST TOXIC FANS... JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESN'T LIKE SHOUJO DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE SEXIST AND THEY ARE TERRIBLE PEOPLE LuxuriousHeart said: Except, over 40% of Shounen and Seinen fans are women... There's a reason why women are open to male demographics, but men sneer down and avoid female demographics. What part of " Kira_Illusionist said: " you did not understand???? Shounen crossed so many cultural boundaries, gender boundaries because of how powerful and appealing those stories are for everyone!!! Shonen also did incredible job of attracting people across multiple countries, across multiple age groups, across multiple political spectrums Why do you think anime is soo popular all over the world now a days???? Its because SHONEN ANIME PIERCED THOSE BOUNDARIES AND REACHED THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE ACROSS ALL OVER THE WORLD!!... Shonen paved the way for ALL ANIME to reach people all over the world... People in Brazil didn't watch anime because they wanted to do a favour to Japanese people, they just wanted good entertainment and Shonen Anime provided that... The same with Indian anime fans, Thailand anime fans, Anime fans all over the world where they don't even speak english!! Shonen anime paved the road so that all demographics of anime can have a chance to reach them Shonen anime is powerful enough to break all barriers including the gender ones... No woman is watching Shonen to do Shonen anime a favour, they are watching it because they are entertained by it... That's how UNIVERSALLY APPEALING SHONEN ANIME IS... That's where Shoujo anime failed, but not making it UNIVERSALLY APPEALING... Also Shoujo not having enough quality anime will force people to look outside of Shoujo for quality anime... Some people watch Shonen, some watch seinen and some start reading the manga... But for a Shonen anime fan, completing GOOD SHONEN ANIME itself a very big task that will consume their WHOLE LIFE... Shoujo fans NEED Shonen to be entertained but Shonen fans DON'T NEED Shoujo at all to be entertained... Do you really think Shoujo is as good as Shonen???? What is your basis of it???? I know Shonen is better than Shoujo because of MAL top anime list and I also saw how popular Shonen anime is even in some obscure corners of the world... Shoujo simply failed to capture men... They also failed to capture traditional women too... MEN NOT WATCHING SHOUJO IS A TESTAMENT OF HOW SHOUJO LACK GOOD STORIES WHEN COMPARED TO SHONEN... Good story need to have good characters that the audience want to see more of... The Unlikeable Female Protagonist of Shoujo is the Achilles' heel of Shoujo anime And Why are you not addressing the unlikeablity of Female Protagonist of Shoujo anime???? Did you check the number of character favs the Female Protagonist get compared to other characters in her own anime????? THE UNLIKEABILITY OF FEMALE PROTAGONIST OF A SHOUJO ANIME IS NOT A GENDERED ISUUE!! Unless until Shoujo doesn't fix their Female Protagonist, it will never be as popular as Shonen and Shonen fans, Men will not turn their way... You accused me that I wanted Shoujo anime to disappear which was completely false... When will apologize for wrongly accusing me??? Isn't apologizing after wrongly accusing someone the right thing and respectful thing to do?? |
Kira_IllusionistApr 6, 12:52 AM
Apr 6, 1:57 AM
#130
Reply to Lawgun
LuxuriousHeart said:
Except, over 40% of Shounen and Seinen fans are women... There's a reason why women are open to male demographics, but men sneer down and avoid female demographics.
Except, over 40% of Shounen and Seinen fans are women... There's a reason why women are open to male demographics, but men sneer down and avoid female demographics.
And it has nothing to do with women themselves or their assumed open-mindness. It's just a modern shounen is bland/sterile conveyor and has no focus on specific groups/niches anymore, it tries hard to appeal to everyone in the same time therefore actively losing any uniqueness while following most basic patterns ever. Seinen is basically dead if we compare its percentage to shounen. Shounen is just not appealing to males anymore, it's unisex while shoujo is still female-only oriented and therefore keeps being niche. Same happens with Japanese game industry too, a heavy turn to female audience with total ignoring of male audience which has no choice but follow trend with inertia.
| @Lawgun I think some Shounen is still unique. I have some on my backlog. I'm excited to jump into Akane Banashi soon. Hope it's good. Though I'll say this... Shounen is the safest of the demographics. Doesn't step too far outside of the box. Summer blockbusters... Seinen is still good. I enjoyed Dungeon Meshi, and I'm excited to watch Apothecary Diaries. I think there's a lot of Seinen still being published. I think there's some Shoujo that could have crossover appeal, if people gave it a chance. People simply don't watch/read it, simply because it's Shoujo at this point. People like Shoujo tropes and writing style, but published in other demographics. If Berserk released in a Josei manga, everything left as is, it'd sell less than 20 million copies. If Attack on Titan released in a Shoujo magazine, everything left as is, it'd sell less than 20 million couples. |
Apr 6, 2:00 AM
#131
Kira_Illusionist said: When did stereotype creep in here??? What stereotype about Japanese people turn people away from anime??? So if a Japanese person meet a foreigner and they learn that foreigner don't watch anime, they should treat that foreigner as a RACIST???? STOP THIS TOXIC MENTALITY... Not liking anime doesn't make you a racist!! Not liking Bollywood movies doesn't make you a racist!! TIME AND TIME AGAIN YOU PROVE THAT SHOUJO FANS ARE THE MOST TOXIC FANS... JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESN'T LIKE SHOUJO DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE SEXIST AND THEY ARE TERRIBLE PEOPLE Why does one actively hate a diverse medium? 🤔 Kira_Illusionist said: Shounen crossed so many cultural boundaries, gender boundaries because of how powerful and appealing those stories are for everyone!!! Why do you think anime is soo popular all over the world now a days???? Its because SHONEN ANIME PIERCED THOSE BOUNDARIES AND REACHED THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE ACROSS ALL OVER THE WORLD!!... Shonen paved the way for ALL ANIME to reach people all over the world... People in Brazil didn't watch anime because they wanted to do a favour to Japanese people, they just wanted good entertainment and Shonen Anime provided that... The same with Indian anime fans, Thailand anime fans, Anime fans all over the world where they don't even speak english!! Shonen anime paved the road so that all demographics of anime can have a chance to reach them Why is Shounen so appealing? Why is it considered the default? Kira_Illusionist said: Do you really think Shoujo is as good as Shonen???? What is your basis of it???? Do you think Shoujo is worse than Shounen? Do you think that Josei and Shoujo are the worst demographics? Kira_Illusionist said: MEN NOT WATCHING SHOUJO IS A TESTAMENT OF HOW SHOUJO LACK GOOD STORIES WHEN COMPARED TO SHONEN... So men are the deciders of taste? If men don't like something, it's bad? Only the opinions of men matter? 🤔 |
Apr 6, 2:53 AM
#132
Apr 7, 3:42 AM
#133
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
Kira_Illusionist said:
When did stereotype creep in here??? What stereotype about Japanese people turn people away from anime??? So if a Japanese person meet a foreigner and they learn that foreigner don't watch anime, they should treat that foreigner as a RACIST???? STOP THIS TOXIC MENTALITY... Not liking anime doesn't make you a racist!! Not liking Bollywood movies doesn't make you a racist!! TIME AND TIME AGAIN YOU PROVE THAT SHOUJO FANS ARE THE MOST TOXIC FANS... JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESN'T LIKE SHOUJO DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE SEXIST AND THEY ARE TERRIBLE PEOPLE
When did stereotype creep in here??? What stereotype about Japanese people turn people away from anime??? So if a Japanese person meet a foreigner and they learn that foreigner don't watch anime, they should treat that foreigner as a RACIST???? STOP THIS TOXIC MENTALITY... Not liking anime doesn't make you a racist!! Not liking Bollywood movies doesn't make you a racist!! TIME AND TIME AGAIN YOU PROVE THAT SHOUJO FANS ARE THE MOST TOXIC FANS... JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESN'T LIKE SHOUJO DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE SEXIST AND THEY ARE TERRIBLE PEOPLE
Why does one actively hate a diverse medium? 🤔
Kira_Illusionist said:
Shounen crossed so many cultural boundaries, gender boundaries because of how powerful and appealing those stories are for everyone!!!
Why do you think anime is soo popular all over the world now a days???? Its because SHONEN ANIME PIERCED THOSE BOUNDARIES AND REACHED THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE ACROSS ALL OVER THE WORLD!!... Shonen paved the way for ALL ANIME to reach people all over the world... People in Brazil didn't watch anime because they wanted to do a favour to Japanese people, they just wanted good entertainment and Shonen Anime provided that... The same with Indian anime fans, Thailand anime fans, Anime fans all over the world where they don't even speak english!! Shonen anime paved the road so that all demographics of anime can have a chance to reach them
Shounen crossed so many cultural boundaries, gender boundaries because of how powerful and appealing those stories are for everyone!!!
Why do you think anime is soo popular all over the world now a days???? Its because SHONEN ANIME PIERCED THOSE BOUNDARIES AND REACHED THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE ACROSS ALL OVER THE WORLD!!... Shonen paved the way for ALL ANIME to reach people all over the world... People in Brazil didn't watch anime because they wanted to do a favour to Japanese people, they just wanted good entertainment and Shonen Anime provided that... The same with Indian anime fans, Thailand anime fans, Anime fans all over the world where they don't even speak english!! Shonen anime paved the road so that all demographics of anime can have a chance to reach them
Why is Shounen so appealing? Why is it considered the default?
Kira_Illusionist said:
Do you really think Shoujo is as good as Shonen???? What is your basis of it????
Do you really think Shoujo is as good as Shonen???? What is your basis of it????
Do you think Shoujo is worse than Shounen? Do you think that Josei and Shoujo are the worst demographics?
Kira_Illusionist said:
MEN NOT WATCHING SHOUJO IS A TESTAMENT OF HOW SHOUJO LACK GOOD STORIES WHEN COMPARED TO SHONEN...
MEN NOT WATCHING SHOUJO IS A TESTAMENT OF HOW SHOUJO LACK GOOD STORIES WHEN COMPARED TO SHONEN...
So men are the deciders of taste? If men don't like something, it's bad? Only the opinions of men matter? 🤔
Again, Why are you using the word "hate" in the place of "not liking" it.... Why does one does not like one medium, it's because 1. It is not grabbing their interest, 2. It is not appealing to them, 3. They are not entertained by them, 4. They are somewhat entertained but also have many elements that they dislike so they won't come back to the medium, 5. They have so many shows that they already want to watch that they don't have time to even consider other medium and so on and so on None of those reasons would be sexism, racism etc... If you don't have empathy towards people, you would obviously judge them that they are bad people for not doing something that you want them to do... This is how people belonging to one culture be racist to people belonging to other culture... You have the same mindset... "If you don't watch Shoujo it means you are a bad person" is the biggest example of that... You can't consider other reasons for why men won't watch Shoujo except thinking they are bad people You tell me... Have ever watched a Telugu film, a Tamil film, a Malayalam film, a Punjabi film, a Marathi film, a Bhojpuri film, a Thai film, a Sri Lankan film, a Bangla film, an Indonesian film, an Arabic film??? If did not watch even ONE OF THEM, apologise for being racist towards that group... Since according to you not watching = racism, sexism right LuxuriousHeart said: So men are the deciders of taste? If men don't like something, it's bad? Only the opinions of men matter? 🤔 Audience taste matters the most... If you want any group of audience to consume your product, then your product should be appealing to their taste... Shonen appeals to EVERYONE!!... Why would SHONEN HAVE REVERSE HAREM STORIES WHILE SHOUJO NEVER HAD ANY HAREM STORIES???? Shonen published GOOD reverse harem stories that were later made into anime(Ex: Toilet bound Honako kun, Romantic killer, Aoharu x Machinegun)... Why would Shonen have reverse harem stories in their magazines??? TO APPEAL TO WOMEN!!!! What Shoujo anime had a harem story to appeal to men???? What effort did Shoujo anime put to pull men to watch them??? YOU WANT AUDIENCE TO WATCH YOUR PRODUCT WITHOUT PUTTING ANY EFFORT FOR THEM??????? What is this entitlement??? Do you know HOLLYWOOD STARS CAME TO INDIA AND PLAYED CRICKET TO PULL INDIAN AUDIENCE TO THEIR MOVIES... They didn't say Indians were racists because they didn't watch a film that is not their mother tongue, they came and put effort... Interstellar movie mentioned Delhi couple of times in the movie to make Indian fans happy... What did Shoujo anime do to make Men watching the show happy???? And do you know why Shonen could even take a risk by publishing a reverse harem story, because Shonen fans are openminded enough to still buy them... But Shoujo CANNOT TAKE A RISK OF PUBLISHING A HAREM STORY, because Shoujo fans are closed minded and NOT ENOUGH FANS would buy them making it a financial loss for the magazine... Shonen magazine and writers put effort so that women will also buy them... Take Jujutsu Kaisen for example, Nobara was a risky character to put in a Shonen magazine, but they took that risk for the female audience, they also took care that men would also not HATE Nobara... Yuji is written in a way that, if Yuji was a real person, any human being on the planet will like him, including men and women.... Nowadays fan service in Shonen magazines is getting reduced because it turns women off... They are also putting some Shoujo tropes into their stories hoping it would attract more female audience... While Shonen is putting so much effort to pull women to their product, what effort did Shoujo put to pull men towards their product???? Shonen publishes enough stories that are appealing to women, provide enough value for women... Shonen magazines GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO ATTRACT WOMEN.... Shonen magazines try to publish a story that are for EVERYONE... If they want audience to think a character is COOL, they make sure to write that character is cool for men, women, old and Young... That is such a tough spot to hit, but they still hit that time and time again Hollywood put conscious and continuous effort to go global wide and that's why Hollywood is a global medium now... Shonen put onscious and continuous effort to sell their stories to every demographic in Japan, that they accidentally attracted other culture people too... Why does only Shonen have a BIG 3, but not Seinen or Shoujo or Josei???? Because BIG 3 is for EVERYONE!!!... Big 3 made inroads to global audience, and those audience will obviously start from Shonen again... Once they get bored from Shonen stories, they will explore more... Overwhelming majority of audience won't watch enough anime to get bored by shonen hence making Shoujo and Josei a niche... Ask non japanese anime watchers what was their first anime and see how many of them would give Shoujo anime as their answer... From that you would understand Shoujo is just not as good as attracting audience like Shonen is... If you would do that experiment, 90% of the people will answer with a Shonen anime and more than 50% answers will give one of the BIG 3 If you want more people, especially men/Shonen fans to watch Shoujo, demand Shoujo authors to write more stories that would catch the eyes of other demographics except women... If you only grab women's attention to your work, then only women would consume your product obviously If Shoujo will not put any effort to attract male audience, then they will never attract men to consume their products meaning their products are not good enough for men... Shoujo has to step up and BE CONSISTENT in producing works that appeal to both men and women... Producing 1 anime once in 5 years that might be appealing to men also is a wasted effort... Shoujo should produce atleast have 1 anime EVERY SEASON that has appeal for men and BE GOOD ENOUGH TO REPLACE ATLEAST 1 SHONEN from their watchlist... Again, Why are you not addressing the unlikeable female protagonist of Shoujo anime???? Why are you not apologising for wrongly accusing me that I wanted Shoujo should to just disappear??? And apologise if you never ever watched a those films I mentioned above... Where are you getting those 20%, 40% numbers from??? |
Kira_IllusionistApr 7, 4:16 AM
Apr 7, 1:45 PM
#134
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
Again, Why are you using the word "hate" in the place of "not liking" it.... Why does one does not like one medium, it's because 1. It is not grabbing their interest, 2. It is not appealing to them, 3. They are not entertained by them, 4. They are somewhat entertained but also have many elements that they dislike so they won't come back to the medium, 5. They have so many shows that they already want to watch that they don't have time to even consider other medium and so on and so on
None of those reasons would be sexism, racism etc... If you don't have empathy towards people, you would obviously judge them that they are bad people for not doing something that you want them to do... This is how people belonging to one culture be racist to people belonging to other culture... You have the same mindset... "If you don't watch Shoujo it means you are a bad person" is the biggest example of that... You can't consider other reasons for why men won't watch Shoujo except thinking they are bad people
You tell me... Have ever watched a Telugu film, a Tamil film, a Malayalam film, a Punjabi film, a Marathi film, a Bhojpuri film, a Thai film, a Sri Lankan film, a Bangla film, an Indonesian film, an Arabic film??? If did not watch even ONE OF THEM, apologise for being racist towards that group... Since according to you not watching = racism, sexism right
LuxuriousHeart said:
So men are the deciders of taste? If men don't like something, it's bad? Only the opinions of men matter? 🤔
So men are the deciders of taste? If men don't like something, it's bad? Only the opinions of men matter? 🤔
Audience taste matters the most... If you want any group of audience to consume your product, then your product should be appealing to their taste... Shonen appeals to EVERYONE!!...
Why would SHONEN HAVE REVERSE HAREM STORIES WHILE SHOUJO NEVER HAD ANY HAREM STORIES???? Shonen published GOOD reverse harem stories that were later made into anime(Ex: Toilet bound Honako kun, Romantic killer, Aoharu x Machinegun)... Why would Shonen have reverse harem stories in their magazines??? TO APPEAL TO WOMEN!!!!
What Shoujo anime had a harem story to appeal to men???? What effort did Shoujo anime put to pull men to watch them??? YOU WANT AUDIENCE TO WATCH YOUR PRODUCT WITHOUT PUTTING ANY EFFORT FOR THEM??????? What is this entitlement???
Do you know HOLLYWOOD STARS CAME TO INDIA AND PLAYED CRICKET TO PULL INDIAN AUDIENCE TO THEIR MOVIES... They didn't say Indians were racists because they didn't watch a film that is not their mother tongue, they came and put effort...
Interstellar movie mentioned Delhi couple of times in the movie to make Indian fans happy... What did Shoujo anime do to make Men watching the show happy????
And do you know why Shonen could even take a risk by publishing a reverse harem story, because Shonen fans are openminded enough to still buy them... But Shoujo CANNOT TAKE A RISK OF PUBLISHING A HAREM STORY, because Shoujo fans are closed minded and NOT ENOUGH FANS would buy them making it a financial loss for the magazine...
Shonen magazine and writers put effort so that women will also buy them... Take Jujutsu Kaisen for example, Nobara was a risky character to put in a Shonen magazine, but they took that risk for the female audience, they also took care that men would also not HATE Nobara... Yuji is written in a way that, if Yuji was a real person, any human being on the planet will like him, including men and women.... Nowadays fan service in Shonen magazines is getting reduced because it turns women off... They are also putting some Shoujo tropes into their stories hoping it would attract more female audience... While Shonen is putting so much effort to pull women to their product, what effort did Shoujo put to pull men towards their product????
Shonen publishes enough stories that are appealing to women, provide enough value for women... Shonen magazines GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO ATTRACT WOMEN.... Shonen magazines try to publish a story that are for EVERYONE... If they want audience to think a character is COOL, they make sure to write that character is cool for men, women, old and Young... That is such a tough spot to hit, but they still hit that time and time again
Hollywood put conscious and continuous effort to go global wide and that's why Hollywood is a global medium now... Shonen put onscious and continuous effort to sell their stories to every demographic in Japan, that they accidentally attracted other culture people too... Why does only Shonen have a BIG 3, but not Seinen or Shoujo or Josei???? Because BIG 3 is for EVERYONE!!!... Big 3 made inroads to global audience, and those audience will obviously start from Shonen again... Once they get bored from Shonen stories, they will explore more... Overwhelming majority of audience won't watch enough anime to get bored by shonen hence making Shoujo and Josei a niche...
Ask non japanese anime watchers what was their first anime and see how many of them would give Shoujo anime as their answer... From that you would understand Shoujo is just not as good as attracting audience like Shonen is... If you would do that experiment, 90% of the people will answer with a Shonen anime and more than 50% answers will give one of the BIG 3
If you want more people, especially men/Shonen fans to watch Shoujo, demand Shoujo authors to write more stories that would catch the eyes of other demographics except women... If you only grab women's attention to your work, then only women would consume your product obviously
If Shoujo will not put any effort to attract male audience, then they will never attract men to consume their products meaning their products are not good enough for men... Shoujo has to step up and BE CONSISTENT in producing works that appeal to both men and women... Producing 1 anime once in 5 years that might be appealing to men also is a wasted effort... Shoujo should produce atleast have 1 anime EVERY SEASON that has appeal for men and BE GOOD ENOUGH TO REPLACE ATLEAST 1 SHONEN from their watchlist...
Again, Why are you not addressing the unlikeable female protagonist of Shoujo anime???? Why are you not apologising for wrongly accusing me that I wanted Shoujo should to just disappear??? And apologise if you never ever watched a those films I mentioned above... Where are you getting those 20%, 40% numbers from???
| @Kira_Illusionist How is it not entertaining? Anime is simply a medium and is very diverse. If you're actively avoiding it, then there's some prejudice there. I'm currently watching Girl from Nowhere on Netflix. I did watch Always a Witch on Netflix. I've watched Blood and Water along with Miseducation. I have House of Ga'a on my list. I watched Reset on YouTube. I enjoyed Supacell and Dancing on Glass. Dabba Cartel is on my list, but I have a big backlog to get through. No matter where something is from, I'm open to watching it if it catches my eye. I prefer to watch something with black people, but it's not a deal breaker if something doesn't have black people. I mean... I watch anime... I digress... The point is, when people actually open their minds, there's so many good shows to watch. I don't get how people can limit themselves. And I get how language can be a barrier, but some of these shows are in English or at least dubbed in English. So if subtitles aren't your thing, you can still enjoy some of the above shows... Personally, I think people limit themselves when they say "I don't ever want to watch or read anything from _". You do yourself a disservice, which is why I low-key argue for both sides of the East vs West culture war BS. Both sides have great games and works, and places outside of them are great as well. My dad used to be closed minded, but I had to open his mind. I'm showing him Hajime no Ipo, he enjoyed Junji Itou Collection, Petshop of Horrors, Ghost Hunt, and Parasyte. He enjoyed Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. He's enjoying shows from Asia, Africa, Latin America, Europe, etc. He's excited for House of Ga'a, which I knew he would be. My dad likes to see strong black men, which is why he likes Crossed in Amazon Prime (because the main character was a smart and tough black man). He also liked Supacell as well, for that reason. Shoujo has had action series and a love triangle and trifling men. Takumi sleeps with multiple women in Nana. In My Neighborhood Story, Tsutomu dates another woman, even when he has feelings for Mikako (the MC), because he doesn't want to limit himself to only dating a girl he's lived next to his entire life. He also has multiple fangirls, but dates the prettiest one with the best body for experience. In Ghost Hunt, the MC only has eyes for Naru, while multiple women flirt with Naru. In Paradise Kiss, pivoting to Josei, George is sleeping with multiple people while manipulating and gaslighting the MC. Ironically enough, Shoujo usually gives the male lead a pseudo harem to show how cool and attractive they are. Funny thing is, men don't self project onto them... They prefer to self--project onto the unattractive guys. Like one of the few Shoujo series men bother to read is My Love Story, which is about an ugly and overweight guy getting with an attractive girl. You don't see the reverse of that in Shounen... The few guys that read A Sign of Affection self--projected into Oushi, the emotionally immature guy that got rejected. They could easily self--project onto Itsuomi, who's cool, tall, attractive, and has multiple women after him. They project onto the losers for some reason... Fanservice is still in Shounen, and I doubt most people actually care. The highest selling Shounen series tend to have fanservice, and that includes newgen. |
Apr 7, 1:49 PM
#135
| Nah, they already do all the work for me themselves. |
Apr 7, 3:38 PM
#136
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@Kira_Illusionist How is it not entertaining? Anime is simply a medium and is very diverse. If you're actively avoiding it, then there's some prejudice there.
I'm currently watching Girl from Nowhere on Netflix. I did watch Always a Witch on Netflix. I've watched Blood and Water along with Miseducation. I have House of Ga'a on my list. I watched Reset on YouTube. I enjoyed Supacell and Dancing on Glass. Dabba Cartel is on my list, but I have a big backlog to get through. No matter where something is from, I'm open to watching it if it catches my eye. I prefer to watch something with black people, but it's not a deal breaker if something doesn't have black people. I mean... I watch anime... I digress... The point is, when people actually open their minds, there's so many good shows to watch. I don't get how people can limit themselves. And I get how language can be a barrier, but some of these shows are in English or at least dubbed in English. So if subtitles aren't your thing, you can still enjoy some of the above shows... Personally, I think people limit themselves when they say "I don't ever want to watch or read anything from _". You do yourself a disservice, which is why I low-key argue for both sides of the East vs West culture war BS. Both sides have great games and works, and places outside of them are great as well. My dad used to be closed minded, but I had to open his mind. I'm showing him Hajime no Ipo, he enjoyed Junji Itou Collection, Petshop of Horrors, Ghost Hunt, and Parasyte. He enjoyed Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. He's enjoying shows from Asia, Africa, Latin America, Europe, etc. He's excited for House of Ga'a, which I knew he would be. My dad likes to see strong black men, which is why he likes Crossed in Amazon Prime (because the main character was a smart and tough black man). He also liked Supacell as well, for that reason.
Shoujo has had action series and a love triangle and trifling men. Takumi sleeps with multiple women in Nana. In My Neighborhood Story, Tsutomu dates another woman, even when he has feelings for Mikako (the MC), because he doesn't want to limit himself to only dating a girl he's lived next to his entire life. He also has multiple fangirls, but dates the prettiest one with the best body for experience. In Ghost Hunt, the MC only has eyes for Naru, while multiple women flirt with Naru. In Paradise Kiss, pivoting to Josei, George is sleeping with multiple people while manipulating and gaslighting the MC.
Ironically enough, Shoujo usually gives the male lead a pseudo harem to show how cool and attractive they are. Funny thing is, men don't self project onto them... They prefer to self--project onto the unattractive guys. Like one of the few Shoujo series men bother to read is My Love Story, which is about an ugly and overweight guy getting with an attractive girl. You don't see the reverse of that in Shounen... The few guys that read A Sign of Affection self--projected into Oushi, the emotionally immature guy that got rejected. They could easily self--project onto Itsuomi, who's cool, tall, attractive, and has multiple women after him. They project onto the losers for some reason...
Fanservice is still in Shounen, and I doubt most people actually care. The highest selling Shounen series tend to have fanservice, and that includes newgen.
I'm currently watching Girl from Nowhere on Netflix. I did watch Always a Witch on Netflix. I've watched Blood and Water along with Miseducation. I have House of Ga'a on my list. I watched Reset on YouTube. I enjoyed Supacell and Dancing on Glass. Dabba Cartel is on my list, but I have a big backlog to get through. No matter where something is from, I'm open to watching it if it catches my eye. I prefer to watch something with black people, but it's not a deal breaker if something doesn't have black people. I mean... I watch anime... I digress... The point is, when people actually open their minds, there's so many good shows to watch. I don't get how people can limit themselves. And I get how language can be a barrier, but some of these shows are in English or at least dubbed in English. So if subtitles aren't your thing, you can still enjoy some of the above shows... Personally, I think people limit themselves when they say "I don't ever want to watch or read anything from _". You do yourself a disservice, which is why I low-key argue for both sides of the East vs West culture war BS. Both sides have great games and works, and places outside of them are great as well. My dad used to be closed minded, but I had to open his mind. I'm showing him Hajime no Ipo, he enjoyed Junji Itou Collection, Petshop of Horrors, Ghost Hunt, and Parasyte. He enjoyed Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. He's enjoying shows from Asia, Africa, Latin America, Europe, etc. He's excited for House of Ga'a, which I knew he would be. My dad likes to see strong black men, which is why he likes Crossed in Amazon Prime (because the main character was a smart and tough black man). He also liked Supacell as well, for that reason.
Shoujo has had action series and a love triangle and trifling men. Takumi sleeps with multiple women in Nana. In My Neighborhood Story, Tsutomu dates another woman, even when he has feelings for Mikako (the MC), because he doesn't want to limit himself to only dating a girl he's lived next to his entire life. He also has multiple fangirls, but dates the prettiest one with the best body for experience. In Ghost Hunt, the MC only has eyes for Naru, while multiple women flirt with Naru. In Paradise Kiss, pivoting to Josei, George is sleeping with multiple people while manipulating and gaslighting the MC.
Ironically enough, Shoujo usually gives the male lead a pseudo harem to show how cool and attractive they are. Funny thing is, men don't self project onto them... They prefer to self--project onto the unattractive guys. Like one of the few Shoujo series men bother to read is My Love Story, which is about an ugly and overweight guy getting with an attractive girl. You don't see the reverse of that in Shounen... The few guys that read A Sign of Affection self--projected into Oushi, the emotionally immature guy that got rejected. They could easily self--project onto Itsuomi, who's cool, tall, attractive, and has multiple women after him. They project onto the losers for some reason...
Fanservice is still in Shounen, and I doubt most people actually care. The highest selling Shounen series tend to have fanservice, and that includes newgen.
| @LuxuriousHeart Why do you never ever respond to what I am actually asking?? Have ever watched a Telugu film, a Tamil film, a Malayalam film, a Punjabi film, a Marathi film, a Bhojpuri film, a Thai film, a Sri Lankan film, a Bangla film, an Indonesian film, an Arabic film??? None of the shows you mentioned belong to the languages/countries I mentioned above... 1 thai tv show... What about the others??? So you admit you never ever touched those products right I asked what did Shoujo do attract men?? And lastly, according to you, the only reason that men don't watch Shoujo is because they are bad people???? |
Apr 7, 3:50 PM
#137
| No, I don't. I bet everyone in this site who look down Shonen fans are watching Shonen anime for first time they introduced to anime. Judging by popularity Dragon Ball & Naruto |
Apr 7, 4:10 PM
#138
| I see nothing obxnious about shounen anime fans. They are actually very likeable people. |
Apr 7, 7:48 PM
#139
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
@LuxuriousHeart
Why do you never ever respond to what I am actually asking??
Have ever watched a Telugu film, a Tamil film, a Malayalam film, a Punjabi film, a Marathi film, a Bhojpuri film, a Thai film, a Sri Lankan film, a Bangla film, an Indonesian film, an Arabic film???
None of the shows you mentioned belong to the languages/countries I mentioned above... 1 thai tv show... What about the others??? So you admit you never ever touched those products right
I asked what did Shoujo do attract men??
And lastly, according to you, the only reason that men don't watch Shoujo is because they are bad people????
Why do you never ever respond to what I am actually asking??
Have ever watched a Telugu film, a Tamil film, a Malayalam film, a Punjabi film, a Marathi film, a Bhojpuri film, a Thai film, a Sri Lankan film, a Bangla film, an Indonesian film, an Arabic film???
None of the shows you mentioned belong to the languages/countries I mentioned above... 1 thai tv show... What about the others??? So you admit you never ever touched those products right
I asked what did Shoujo do attract men??
And lastly, according to you, the only reason that men don't watch Shoujo is because they are bad people????
| @Kira_Illusionist I've answered. A Girl From Nowhere is a Thai show. I have several foreign shows on my list, and it's not limited to countries within Asia, Europe, or North America. I watch anything that looks good. I don't discriminate. On my Netflix list is also: - Para Bentina Pengikut Iblis - Trinil - Do You See What I see - Jagun Jagun the Warrior (my older brother actually recommended this movie to me, so I added it to my list) - House of Ga'a - Amina - Sumala - Wanita Ahli Neraka - Yeh Ballet - Death Whisperer - Nobody Sleeps in the Woods Tonight - Asura - Dynasty Warriors (I loved this game series, so of course I'm going to watch this) - Ballerina - Savage Rhythm - Nightmares and Daydreams - Anikulapo - Queen Sono - Toscana - Navillera - Bandidos - Far From Home - Burn the House Down - Umjolo (there's a few of these, so it's like a series) - Dalah: Death and Flowers - Under the Queen's Umbrella - The Glory Though I'm watching a lot already. Dexter, Dare Me, Girl From Nowhere, Charmed, Jiva!, Hajime no Ipo, Lady Georgie, Love of Kill, Found, Abbott Elementary, Grosse Pointe Garden Society, and Real Housewives of Atlanta. I'm rotating these shows already. Once I'm finished with a few, I'll add some more to the rotation. I'm definitely open to shows from other countries. Movies as well. I'll even take recommendations from you. The stuff I like is similar to my list on here (what I've read/watched and what I want to read/watch): - ballet/dance - horror - action - fantasy - cooking - GL (I do prefer toxic sapphics overall. It's why I didn't gel with First Kill. Not that fluffy wholesome GL is bad, but I just assumed that an enemies to lovers vampire x vampire hunter would be a lot more toxic) - BL (not as much anymore, but I'll still dabble) - drama (depends on the context. Though a messy drama can be appealing) Also, you said Shoujo doesn't have harems. They actually do. It's not uncommon for the male lead to have a bunch of girls liking him, and even a love triangle with 2 women. It's used to show that he's cool. I said there's some prejudice there, and there is. I'm fine with the ones that like some Shoujo series. Though if you feel that there's no Shoujo series worth watching, at all. Then there's some prejudice there. There's a reason you randomly believe that with something you haven't tried. |
Apr 7, 7:51 PM
#140
Reply to RytvoOckakino
No, I don't. I bet everyone in this site who look down Shonen fans are watching Shonen anime for first time they introduced to anime. Judging by popularity Dragon Ball & Naruto
| @RytvoOckakino No one looks down on Shounen or people whose favorite series are Shounen. If you're new and get introduced via Shounen, that's fine. The issue is... Shounen fans pretty just only watch Shounen, and then look down on other demographics. Making memes about Seinen and ShouJosei elitists, when they're ironically even more closed minded than the "elitists" that they mock. |
Apr 7, 8:24 PM
#141
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@Kira_Illusionist I've answered. A Girl From Nowhere is a Thai show. I have several foreign shows on my list, and it's not limited to countries within Asia, Europe, or North America. I watch anything that looks good. I don't discriminate. On my Netflix list is also:
- Para Bentina Pengikut Iblis
- Trinil
- Do You See What I see
- Jagun Jagun the Warrior (my older brother actually recommended this movie to me, so I added it to my list)
- House of Ga'a
- Amina
- Sumala
- Wanita Ahli Neraka
- Yeh Ballet
- Death Whisperer
- Nobody Sleeps in the Woods Tonight
- Asura
- Dynasty Warriors (I loved this game series, so of course I'm going to watch this)
- Ballerina
- Savage Rhythm
- Nightmares and Daydreams
- Anikulapo
- Queen Sono
- Toscana
- Navillera
- Bandidos
- Far From Home
- Burn the House Down
- Umjolo (there's a few of these, so it's like a series)
- Dalah: Death and Flowers
- Under the Queen's Umbrella
- The Glory
Though I'm watching a lot already. Dexter, Dare Me, Girl From Nowhere, Charmed, Jiva!, Hajime no Ipo, Lady Georgie, Love of Kill, Found, Abbott Elementary, Grosse Pointe Garden Society, and Real Housewives of Atlanta. I'm rotating these shows already. Once I'm finished with a few, I'll add some more to the rotation. I'm definitely open to shows from other countries. Movies as well. I'll even take recommendations from you. The stuff I like is similar to my list on here (what I've read/watched and what I want to read/watch):
- ballet/dance
- horror
- action
- fantasy
- cooking
- GL (I do prefer toxic sapphics overall. It's why I didn't gel with First Kill. Not that fluffy wholesome GL is bad, but I just assumed that an enemies to lovers vampire x vampire hunter would be a lot more toxic)
- BL (not as much anymore, but I'll still dabble)
- drama (depends on the context. Though a messy drama can be appealing)
Also, you said Shoujo doesn't have harems. They actually do. It's not uncommon for the male lead to have a bunch of girls liking him, and even a love triangle with 2 women. It's used to show that he's cool.
I said there's some prejudice there, and there is. I'm fine with the ones that like some Shoujo series. Though if you feel that there's no Shoujo series worth watching, at all. Then there's some prejudice there. There's a reason you randomly believe that with something you haven't tried.
- Para Bentina Pengikut Iblis
- Trinil
- Do You See What I see
- Jagun Jagun the Warrior (my older brother actually recommended this movie to me, so I added it to my list)
- House of Ga'a
- Amina
- Sumala
- Wanita Ahli Neraka
- Yeh Ballet
- Death Whisperer
- Nobody Sleeps in the Woods Tonight
- Asura
- Dynasty Warriors (I loved this game series, so of course I'm going to watch this)
- Ballerina
- Savage Rhythm
- Nightmares and Daydreams
- Anikulapo
- Queen Sono
- Toscana
- Navillera
- Bandidos
- Far From Home
- Burn the House Down
- Umjolo (there's a few of these, so it's like a series)
- Dalah: Death and Flowers
- Under the Queen's Umbrella
- The Glory
Though I'm watching a lot already. Dexter, Dare Me, Girl From Nowhere, Charmed, Jiva!, Hajime no Ipo, Lady Georgie, Love of Kill, Found, Abbott Elementary, Grosse Pointe Garden Society, and Real Housewives of Atlanta. I'm rotating these shows already. Once I'm finished with a few, I'll add some more to the rotation. I'm definitely open to shows from other countries. Movies as well. I'll even take recommendations from you. The stuff I like is similar to my list on here (what I've read/watched and what I want to read/watch):
- ballet/dance
- horror
- action
- fantasy
- cooking
- GL (I do prefer toxic sapphics overall. It's why I didn't gel with First Kill. Not that fluffy wholesome GL is bad, but I just assumed that an enemies to lovers vampire x vampire hunter would be a lot more toxic)
- BL (not as much anymore, but I'll still dabble)
- drama (depends on the context. Though a messy drama can be appealing)
Also, you said Shoujo doesn't have harems. They actually do. It's not uncommon for the male lead to have a bunch of girls liking him, and even a love triangle with 2 women. It's used to show that he's cool.
I said there's some prejudice there, and there is. I'm fine with the ones that like some Shoujo series. Though if you feel that there's no Shoujo series worth watching, at all. Then there's some prejudice there. There's a reason you randomly believe that with something you haven't tried.
| @LuxuriousHeart You watch anything that 'looks good TO YOU' and you haven't watched any telugu, tamil, malayalam, bhojpuri, Punjabi show... So you are a racist towards telugu people, tamil people, malayalam people, bhojpuri people, punjabi people according to your logic... By your logic then every Shonen romance is a REVERSE harem show, since every female lead is popular, have fans, have bunch of men liking them... Those are not Reversed harems and what you mentioned are not harems at all... Look at Romantic killer, the reverse harem in shonen, the main characters are 1 female and 3 male and 2 are already in love with the female lead and both the male leads are likeable... Give me an example similar to that... Give me a shoujo where there are 3-4 main characters, 1 male 2-3 female, atleast 2 of those female leads like the male lead, the female leads are likeable and male lead haven't decided on a girl yet What you think 'prejudice' in your head, is actually the failure of Shoujo, fault of Shoujo for not producing appealing products for men... So instead of blaming men by thinking 'prejudice', blame Shoujo authors for lack of ENOUGH male attracting products... The lack of likeable female leads is the main problem which you seem to conveniently ignore in every reply Just like you watch things that "look good to you" men also watch things that "look good to men" and Shoujo just doesn't look good or appealing to men... That is not prejudice... You haven't watched any Telugu film in Netflix even though there are 100's of them including Oscar award winning one, yet you still haven't watched a single telugu movie SHOWS HOW MUCH PREJUDICED YOU ARE AGAINST TELUGU, or NO telugu movie just hasn't caught any attention... So men are prejudiced towards Shoujo AND YOU ARE RACIST TOWARDS TELUGU PEOPLE or Shoujo didn't grab men attention and no telugu movie has caught your attention... Pick one |
Kira_IllusionistApr 7, 8:50 PM
Apr 7, 8:32 PM
#142
Reply to Catalano
I look down on people who have mushoku in favs because they are short and into mediocre pornstars
| @Catalano ROTFL! I haven't seen mushoku nor do I have it in my faves. |
Apr 8, 1:09 AM
#143
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
@LuxuriousHeart You watch anything that 'looks good TO YOU' and you haven't watched any telugu, tamil, malayalam, bhojpuri, Punjabi show... So you are a racist towards telugu people, tamil people, malayalam people, bhojpuri people, punjabi people according to your logic...
By your logic then every Shonen romance is a REVERSE harem show, since every female lead is popular, have fans, have bunch of men liking them... Those are not Reversed harems and what you mentioned are not harems at all... Look at Romantic killer, the reverse harem in shonen, the main characters are 1 female and 3 male and 2 are already in love with the female lead and both the male leads are likeable... Give me an example similar to that... Give me a shoujo where there are 3-4 main characters, 1 male 2-3 female, atleast 2 of those female leads like the male lead, the female leads are likeable and male lead haven't decided on a girl yet
What you think 'prejudice' in your head, is actually the failure of Shoujo, fault of Shoujo for not producing appealing products for men... So instead of blaming men by thinking 'prejudice', blame Shoujo authors for lack of ENOUGH male attracting products... The lack of likeable female leads is the main problem which you seem to conveniently ignore in every reply
Just like you watch things that "look good to you" men also watch things that "look good to men" and Shoujo just doesn't look good or appealing to men... That is not prejudice... You haven't watched any Telugu film in Netflix even though there are 100's of them including Oscar award winning one, yet you still haven't watched a single telugu movie SHOWS HOW MUCH PREJUDICED YOU ARE AGAINST TELUGU, or NO telugu movie just hasn't caught any attention...
So men are prejudiced towards Shoujo AND YOU ARE RACIST TOWARDS TELUGU PEOPLE or Shoujo didn't grab men attention and no telugu movie has caught your attention... Pick one
By your logic then every Shonen romance is a REVERSE harem show, since every female lead is popular, have fans, have bunch of men liking them... Those are not Reversed harems and what you mentioned are not harems at all... Look at Romantic killer, the reverse harem in shonen, the main characters are 1 female and 3 male and 2 are already in love with the female lead and both the male leads are likeable... Give me an example similar to that... Give me a shoujo where there are 3-4 main characters, 1 male 2-3 female, atleast 2 of those female leads like the male lead, the female leads are likeable and male lead haven't decided on a girl yet
What you think 'prejudice' in your head, is actually the failure of Shoujo, fault of Shoujo for not producing appealing products for men... So instead of blaming men by thinking 'prejudice', blame Shoujo authors for lack of ENOUGH male attracting products... The lack of likeable female leads is the main problem which you seem to conveniently ignore in every reply
Just like you watch things that "look good to you" men also watch things that "look good to men" and Shoujo just doesn't look good or appealing to men... That is not prejudice... You haven't watched any Telugu film in Netflix even though there are 100's of them including Oscar award winning one, yet you still haven't watched a single telugu movie SHOWS HOW MUCH PREJUDICED YOU ARE AGAINST TELUGU, or NO telugu movie just hasn't caught any attention...
So men are prejudiced towards Shoujo AND YOU ARE RACIST TOWARDS TELUGU PEOPLE or Shoujo didn't grab men attention and no telugu movie has caught your attention... Pick one
| @Kira_IllusionistYour list is literally a part of India... What are we doing? DN Angel. Two women like him, and he's the protagonist. Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion. He's the protagonist and multiple female characters are interested in him. Telugu is a language in India... What are we doing? This is a reach you have to go for, to justify the sexism of people assuming that all Shoujo is trash and that it's not worth watching? |
Apr 8, 2:16 AM
#144
| guilty. i see video essays on shonen anime and very clickbaity titles and i get the usual "anime" tiktoks which are just popular shonen bs. kids trynna make themselves sound deep and complex watching an anime who has to spoonfeed the plot and previous episodes to them. im not gonna pretend they're not children with internet access. they deserve a discussion befitting their maturity and if its a kid saying "KNY>>>>>AOT" they're not the ones that require respect |
Apr 8, 3:15 AM
#145
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@Kira_IllusionistYour list is literally a part of India... What are we doing?
DN Angel. Two women like him, and he's the protagonist.
Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion. He's the protagonist and multiple female characters are interested in him.
Telugu is a language in India... What are we doing? This is a reach you have to go for, to justify the sexism of people assuming that all Shoujo is trash and that it's not worth watching?
DN Angel. Two women like him, and he's the protagonist.
Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion. He's the protagonist and multiple female characters are interested in him.
Telugu is a language in India... What are we doing? This is a reach you have to go for, to justify the sexism of people assuming that all Shoujo is trash and that it's not worth watching?
| @LuxuriousHeart Telugu is a language in India and your list didn't contain 1 single Telugu work... Ofcourse like a racist, you cannot seperate Telugu with rest of India I am imitating you... I am showing how toxic your mindset is... I am showing you how bad you are treating your fellow human beings... I am treating you the same way your are treating people who don't watch Shoujo... I'm calling you racist because you ignored and never watched Telugu movies just like you are calling people sexists for ignoring and not watching Shoujo... There is no logic in "if you don't watch something that means it's racism/sexism"... There is only judgement from your side... You don't respect people's choices... If men made a choice to not watch Shoujo, then it's the fault of Shoujo for not able to convince men to watch their products... There is no racism/sexism here... DN angel has 2/3 male leads and 2 female leads and 2 male leads like one of the female lead too... How is that what I asked for??? I specifically asked for 1 male lead and 2-3 female leads... For you to go back 20 years to give 1 slightly appealing anime to men (still not what I have asked for) should give you an idea how much Shoujo ignores men... Why would any man would wanna watch a 7/10 20 year old anime that also doesn't appeal to them that much??? When he can watch a 8/10 2025 shonen anime Romantic killer is 2022 anime btw... That should show the effort Shonen puts to attract female readers Code geass is an original anime... It didn't have any demographic... Why do you not understand that Shoujo didn't put effort to pull men?? Why do you not understand that Shoujo Female leads are a Huge problem Why do you have to go and insult people for not watching something they don't like??? Why do you go as far as claiming sexism when there is no need of sexism to explain why people don't watch Shoujo? You cannot say you can apply one standard to yourself and other standard to Men... If Men are sexists to not watch Shoujo, by the SAME standard you are a racist because you didn't watch a single Telugu movie Also by your standard, watching 2-3 popular Shoujo and not coming back to Shoujo means they are sexists right... That means you have to keep watching Telugu movies regularly for you to not be a racist... Recognise the toxicity your mindset brings to a conversation... |
Kira_IllusionistApr 8, 3:41 AM
Apr 8, 3:33 AM
#146
| The thing about shonen fans is that if they ONLY watch shonen, then the majority of the time they have bad taste in shonen too. Anyone with functioning taste in media would be willing to try and most of the time like at least a few different genres/tags, but these people just out themselves as having horrible taste when they only watch shonen and then the shonen they call peak is black clover and mha, like these people are beyond help and do deserve to be looked down on |
| getting jummed |
Apr 8, 12:11 PM
#147
Reply to Kira_Illusionist
@LuxuriousHeart Telugu is a language in India and your list didn't contain 1 single Telugu work... Ofcourse like a racist, you cannot seperate Telugu with rest of India
I am imitating you... I am showing how toxic your mindset is... I am showing you how bad you are treating your fellow human beings... I am treating you the same way your are treating people who don't watch Shoujo... I'm calling you racist because you ignored and never watched Telugu movies just like you are calling people sexists for ignoring and not watching Shoujo...
There is no logic in "if you don't watch something that means it's racism/sexism"... There is only judgement from your side...
You don't respect people's choices... If men made a choice to not watch Shoujo, then it's the fault of Shoujo for not able to convince men to watch their products... There is no racism/sexism here...
DN angel has 2/3 male leads and 2 female leads and 2 male leads like one of the female lead too... How is that what I asked for??? I specifically asked for 1 male lead and 2-3 female leads...
For you to go back 20 years to give 1 slightly appealing anime to men (still not what I have asked for) should give you an idea how much Shoujo ignores men... Why would any man would wanna watch a 7/10 20 year old anime that also doesn't appeal to them that much??? When he can watch a 8/10 2025 shonen anime
Romantic killer is 2022 anime btw... That should show the effort Shonen puts to attract female readers
Code geass is an original anime... It didn't have any demographic...
Why do you not understand that Shoujo didn't put effort to pull men?? Why do you not understand that Shoujo Female leads are a Huge problem
Why do you have to go and insult people for not watching something they don't like??? Why do you go as far as claiming sexism when there is no need of sexism to explain why people don't watch Shoujo?
You cannot say you can apply one standard to yourself and other standard to Men... If Men are sexists to not watch Shoujo, by the SAME standard you are a racist because you didn't watch a single Telugu movie
Also by your standard, watching 2-3 popular Shoujo and not coming back to Shoujo means they are sexists right... That means you have to keep watching Telugu movies regularly for you to not be a racist...
Recognise the toxicity your mindset brings to a conversation...
I am imitating you... I am showing how toxic your mindset is... I am showing you how bad you are treating your fellow human beings... I am treating you the same way your are treating people who don't watch Shoujo... I'm calling you racist because you ignored and never watched Telugu movies just like you are calling people sexists for ignoring and not watching Shoujo...
There is no logic in "if you don't watch something that means it's racism/sexism"... There is only judgement from your side...
You don't respect people's choices... If men made a choice to not watch Shoujo, then it's the fault of Shoujo for not able to convince men to watch their products... There is no racism/sexism here...
DN angel has 2/3 male leads and 2 female leads and 2 male leads like one of the female lead too... How is that what I asked for??? I specifically asked for 1 male lead and 2-3 female leads...
For you to go back 20 years to give 1 slightly appealing anime to men (still not what I have asked for) should give you an idea how much Shoujo ignores men... Why would any man would wanna watch a 7/10 20 year old anime that also doesn't appeal to them that much??? When he can watch a 8/10 2025 shonen anime
Romantic killer is 2022 anime btw... That should show the effort Shonen puts to attract female readers
Code geass is an original anime... It didn't have any demographic...
Why do you not understand that Shoujo didn't put effort to pull men?? Why do you not understand that Shoujo Female leads are a Huge problem
Why do you have to go and insult people for not watching something they don't like??? Why do you go as far as claiming sexism when there is no need of sexism to explain why people don't watch Shoujo?
You cannot say you can apply one standard to yourself and other standard to Men... If Men are sexists to not watch Shoujo, by the SAME standard you are a racist because you didn't watch a single Telugu movie
Also by your standard, watching 2-3 popular Shoujo and not coming back to Shoujo means they are sexists right... That means you have to keep watching Telugu movies regularly for you to not be a racist...
Recognise the toxicity your mindset brings to a conversation...
| @Kira_Illusionist No, you're deflecting due to feeling guilty. Which isn't my problem, that's your problem. Except, that's not my mindset. My mindset is that one must be open and not actively dismiss things. My mindset is that if you're closed minded, you miss out on great stuff. My mindset is to not paint certain things as bad. My mindset is that if you actively avoid and/or talk down on something diverse, there's a deeper reason. Similarly to how the anti-woke happens to hate every game with a black protagonist. That isn't a red flag? Nothing alarming? No? Your example isn't the same at all. It's a deflection and a poor deflection. My example is: "if you think everything made by women and for women is terrible, then re-evaluate why you think so" or "if you think everything made by black/brown people are bad, then re-evaluate why you think so". Your example is: "if you don't watch movies made by black guys named Wade, then you're racist and not open minded! Just using your logic!" That isn't my logic at all... |
Apr 8, 12:15 PM
#148
Reply to Sports_Friday
The thing about shonen fans is that if they ONLY watch shonen, then the majority of the time they have bad taste in shonen too. Anyone with functioning taste in media would be willing to try and most of the time like at least a few different genres/tags, but these people just out themselves as having horrible taste when they only watch shonen and then the shonen they call peak is black clover and mha, like these people are beyond help and do deserve to be looked down on
| @Sports_Friday I like Black Clover, even though I watch all demographics of anime. Though I do think people should be more open minded overall. |
Apr 8, 1:42 PM
#149
LuxuriousHeart said: @Sports_Friday I like Black Clover, even though I watch all demographics of anime. Though I do think people should be more open minded overall. lol sorry not to hate on your taste or something, it's mostly just an example of the fandoms I see do it. Like I enjoy some generally less prestigious stuff like Immoral Guild and JJK as well +many others but I would never really call them peak. I mostly agree with you on the macro point of people needing to diversify their taste but my main point was just that the people who watch only shonen clearly have bad taste in the first place. |
| getting jummed |
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