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I feel like a lot of people don't understand that anime is made primarily for Japanese audiences

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Mar 15, 8:17 PM

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Feb 2016
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Reply to thewiru
krautnelson said:
it's not the translation directly but having to match the English dialogue to the animation, which requires failry liberal translations and a lot of awkward pausing, throwing off the timing and making the dialogue sound unnatural.

This always felt like a self-inflicted penalty for me.
The Japanese just don't care about lip-sync at all, so I don't know why the Americans do.
@thewiru
It's because America's own animation is lip synced.
その目だれの目?
Mar 15, 8:22 PM
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Apr 2013
88
They entered global market and they want to profit form it but they don't give a fuck about what rest of the world wants and cry about shity enring? Where's the logic here ?

I agree that is fundamentally was made By Japanese for Japanese but those times are long gone and taking acount that global A&M market is likely few times bigger then local one they basycli are self crippling themselves !?
Mar 15, 8:47 PM

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Feb 2014
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Reply to Lucifrost
@thewiru
It's because America's own animation is lip synced.
@Lucifrost
...and?
..........................
Mar 15, 9:13 PM

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Sep 2017
316
i mean ...i never would have guessed that, not in a million years, you're so insightful & enlightened
Mar 15, 9:51 PM
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Apr 2013
88
@NS2D

My son we aren't in the 90 where we had experimental stuff like NGE, now anime is dominated by corpo overlords who only look at maximizing profits and nothing ealse... And even then many important series were created by orders form above and had no "artistic drive".Opening for foreign capital is the only way to escape this since you have much more people and it is possible to find you're niche...

Also A&M is an industry like all other so it first and foremost need to ern its living and wages...
Mar 15, 10:07 PM

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Mar 2008
51198
A lot of people that shit on anime are shitting on Japanese people.

Though for writing i wouldnt say it's always because it is Japanese per se. I did read an article of an editor saying many light novel writers are amateur writers that have a lot edited sometimes the editor does the actual writing like a ghost writer.
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Mar 16, 2:11 AM

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Dec 2024
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I remember this is why people hate on Comedy anime, simply because it is lost in translation. I'm sure that it preforms well in Japan but not oversees, because alot of the jokes are cultural and you have to be Japanese or have lived in Japan to understand them. And i guess things alot of things are different in Japan compared to over here as alot of tropes in anime we also don't get since we are not Japanese and anime is well Japanese and mainly targeted towards a Japanese Audience.

Mar 16, 2:30 AM

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Sep 2016
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It would be more convincing if the industry didn't get more revenue from outside of Japan than it does from inside of Japan. It still leans towards Japanese taste, but presumably not as much as before.

https://soranews24.com/2025/01/09/anime-industry-report-shows-overseas-anime-market-is-bigger-than-japanese-one-but-is-this-a-cultural-tipping-point/

Even back in the 90s Ghost in the Shell was partially funded by a western licensor, and in the early 00s ADV were on the production committees for several anime. Even Tezuka banked on foreign licensing, and made an effort to make anime more cosmopolitan and less culturally specific with this in mind, and that was back in the 60s. It has always been a matter of "more or less".

"Selling to an American market was very restrictive, though. They were not to include any indication that the show was made in Japan, they were not to have any arc that lasted more than an episode, all street signs had to be in English, there could be no religious references, "adult" themes, or nudity. Tezuka agreed to this, claiming that it would fit better with the sci-fi setting by giving the sense of a "placelessness". However, he would soon be disappointed by the American market when a Mushi Pro representative went to discuss the next year's episode order only to find out that the Americans didn't need anymore, believing that 52 episodes were more than enough to cycle through indefinitely."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osamu_Tezuka#Production_career_
Mar 16, 10:21 AM

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Oct 2017
4587
Reply to Spast1c
I remember this is why people hate on Comedy anime, simply because it is lost in translation. I'm sure that it preforms well in Japan but not oversees, because alot of the jokes are cultural and you have to be Japanese or have lived in Japan to understand them. And i guess things alot of things are different in Japan compared to over here as alot of tropes in anime we also don't get since we are not Japanese and anime is well Japanese and mainly targeted towards a Japanese Audience.

@Spast1c When people complain about anime "comedy' it usually is focused on bad slapstick, not word play jokes in my experience. The slapstick doesn't need nuance or interpretation.
Mar 16, 5:30 PM

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Jun 2017
1284
Be based by recognizing the anime is made primarily for Japanese audiences AND still criticizing it for 'made-for-Japanese' characteristics.

Who cares if it's made for the Japanese? I'm not Japanese. I'm me.

image unrelated
Mar 17, 12:22 AM

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Dec 2024
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Reply to BilboBaggins365
@Spast1c When people complain about anime "comedy' it usually is focused on bad slapstick, not word play jokes in my experience. The slapstick doesn't need nuance or interpretation.
@BilboBaggins365 I mean maybe, i was just saying what i heard some japanese guy say
Mar 17, 1:03 AM

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Jul 2015
12919
Hah! You think that would stop tourists?

Mar 17, 2:55 AM

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Dec 2021
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I hope it stays more oriented to the japanese interest, although this type of thinking could have a double wammy depending on how much japanese people are influenced by overseas culture too...

I've only really seen that in the music scene though, beyond that I don't know much
Mar 17, 4:11 AM
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Aug 2021
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I think that’s slowly disappearing after anime went mainstream and the “older generation” producers being replaced to the more open minded new generation.


Netflix is diversifying genres to cater to the global audience who want more less trope action while Crunchyroll is stuck in the past with showing mostly generic long titled crap.

Expect to see more of it, that’s when Crunchyroll will panic and will finally adapt to cater everyone.
Howdym8Mar 17, 4:20 AM
Mar 17, 5:04 AM
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May 2018
396
Points 3 and 5 are right.
The rest is baseless and wrong.

Most animes are manga or Light Novel adaptations. In both cases, text is the only way to move the plot forward.
In the case of LN, because it's literally just text. And in the case of manga, because wordless storytelling can only go so far ; and when you try a panel that "shows, doesn't tell", the reader can easily skip it.
I wish I had a study about the percentage of panels one actually looks like when reading, but for now, I use my own personal experience. I know for sure I don't look at literally all images in a manga. Meanwhile, the text I don't skip.
Everything changes. Even the happy and funny things eventually disappear. How can I still enjoy this place then?
- Furukawa Nagisa (Clannad)

You have to make a choice. Either you give up on your soul for the sake of science, or you give up on science to save your soul. In my case, the soul was already in pieces.
- Lloyd Asplund (Code Geass)

Do you understand the meaning behind Nunnaly's smile? She can't see or walk. So there are things in this world that she knows she can't do alone. Her smile... is her only way to show gratitude.
- Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Death is part of Life.
- ... Me.
Mar 17, 5:09 AM
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May 2018
396
Points 3 and 5 are right.
The rest is baseless and wrong.

Most animes are manga or Light Novel adaptations. In both cases, text is the only way to move the plot forward.
In the case of LN, because it's literally just text. And in the case of manga, because wordless storytelling can only go so far ; and when you try a panel that "shows, doesn't tell", the reader can easily skip it.
I wish I had a study about the percentage of panels one actually looks like when reading, but for now, I use my own personal experience. I know for sure I don't look at literally all images in a manga. Meanwhile, the text I don't skip.
Everything changes. Even the happy and funny things eventually disappear. How can I still enjoy this place then?
- Furukawa Nagisa (Clannad)

You have to make a choice. Either you give up on your soul for the sake of science, or you give up on science to save your soul. In my case, the soul was already in pieces.
- Lloyd Asplund (Code Geass)

Do you understand the meaning behind Nunnaly's smile? She can't see or walk. So there are things in this world that she knows she can't do alone. Her smile... is her only way to show gratitude.
- Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Death is part of Life.
- ... Me.
Mar 17, 7:03 AM
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Jul 2018
562233
Americunts yap about how "show not tell" is superior BUT THEY LITERALLY MISUNDERSTOOD EVANGELION FOR 2 DECADES !
Mar 17, 8:49 AM

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Apr 2012
22975
Often, but not always. Sometimes the anime is genuinely bad and either gets criticized even in Japan or is an example of classic "popular crap". Not to mention the guilty pleasure, when people simply not realizing that the title doesn't take itself seriously.
Mar 17, 9:48 AM

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Apr 2023
854
Yeah, I'm fine with those aspects you mentioned because of how it is in Japanese society. I learned some of the meanings behind it in my Japanese class last year as well. But, just because anime is made primarily for Japanese audiences doesn't mean I will not question it at all.

For example Staff Officer Black from Dragon Ball, a perfect example of minstrelry. Granted, Dragon Ball is a product of its time but I still don't like that part of it.
If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece
Mar 17, 9:49 AM

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854
@NS2D

I agree here. My problem isn't that there's so much isekai. My problem is that it's usually the same boring shit over and over again.
If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece
Mar 17, 10:18 AM

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Sep 2015
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And that's the of the main appeals of it as a medium. When I watch a bollywood movie, I expect an all out indian experience with all the exaggerated fight scenes, dance scenes, the black and white character writing, etc etc; The westernized indian movies just don't do it for me.
Mar 17, 10:32 AM

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Dec 2021
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I'm not sure if I agree with any of the opening points other than probably the isekai one, as that seems to be popular with otaku. But I think most of the criticism isn't because there are "too many" isekai. It's that most of them are hastily churned-out slop. If they were actually more thoughtful, imaginative, and well written, then I doubt that criticism would be so common. I do agree with the title, though. Quite a few people on MAL seem to want to impose their own culture and values on Japanese authors.
Mar 17, 7:06 PM

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Apr 2020
3425
I think a lot of people don't understand that we're living in 2025.
It's like Coca Cola going: We know our product is kinda heavy on sugar, but what you don't understand is that we Americans like it that way. It's for us. We don't want Global Success. Screw expanding.

It's Bullshit^^ That's not how business works. That's not how it went.
And it's not the way the industry is going. Look at the most succesful Show in recent years
-> It's Demon Slayer. You want to tell me the audience for that Show is mainly Japanese people? It's clearly not the case.



I also think that bad writing can't/shouldn't be explained with weird phrases like "It's typical" or "Because Japan is different"
GOOD writing isn't good because it caters to a very specific region/culture or because it's made by people from Japan, for example.
Good writing is a craft.
Merve2LoveMar 17, 7:15 PM
Mar 17, 7:26 PM

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Jul 2024
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To the original topic statement, it feels like it should be kind of obvious.
Even most optimistic figures place international markets at 50% of the anime industry's total revenue. So if 50% of that revenue can be maintained by catering to the taste and sensibilities of 125m culturally similar people or trying to adapt to the vast differences between 7.9 billion or so other people across every other possible global culture, a lot of whom are interested in anime because of its Japanese appeal in the first place.

I just don't see anime changing drastically solely because of the international markets that much.
Mar 17, 7:27 PM

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If an anime is made targetted for the "modern audiences" it's garanteed to be garbage. They forget the entire reason why we started consooming japanese media in the first place and in a failed attempt to make everyone happy (news flash you can't) therein lies the enshitification of anime.
Mar 17, 7:36 PM

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Oct 2017
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@Dante012 Five is literally the one that makes the least sense lol.


@Briekimchi
I just don't see anime changing drastically solely because of the international markets that much.
The whole thing is partially xenophobic fear baiting. Like regardless of what people want, anime is going to change. Anime is not where it was in the 2000s or the 80s. Anime in the 2040s is not going to be like it is now. The thing is that, change would have occurred regardless. Maybe anime will be shit for you in the future, I mean plenty of people feel that way about the medium now or a decade in the past. That's life.

It's not like international anime fans are actually that different in terms of interests, from Japanese fans outside of maybe like a few shows (old legacy franchise, idol shows are about as far as things differ). The stuff that is a hit over there is a hit over here. A lot of the same interests are the same. Sure you have fans who hate the otaku aspect of the medium, guess what those tourists may hate it, however, I remember seeing a rant from a Japanese dude complaining that Sunrise was making idol shows like Love Live, and it was making the industry go down hill. Is he a tourist too?

Just because you expel the evil foreigners, which everyone for the most part is here, doesn't mean you ensure some pure anime medium, that caters to. your will. Like honestly, what has anime done, as a result of the massive increase in foreign funding, that is so horrible to these weebs. It's literally pumping out the same shit it has for the last decade, for better or worse. Partially that is because again, the foreign fans also like it.

I don't personally understand these arguments made by others in the thread. You are right, that it won't change because of solely international markets. Anime is going to change though and stay the same. It always has.
BilboBaggins365Mar 17, 8:34 PM
Mar 17, 9:32 PM

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Feb 2018
573
Op, you're saying negative talking points as if it's cultural and not just bad storytelling techniques. What you're describing is just bad anime.

Anyways, looking at MAL threads in general, a lot of talking points that gets brought up coincide with anime culture, not Japanese. And even then, it's not super common to have all those talking points present in an anime.

Anime as a word came from an English loanword and was heavily inspired by disney in style and story, which isn't exactly Japanese. And while anime is heavily catered for Japanese, there are many quirks that exist in anime that don't exist in other Japanese media. Seriously, watch some Japanese movies like Tampopo, Blue Spring, Tokyo Story, etc. like I have, and you'll see that anime stands out from the rest. And it's not a bad thing.

In other words, the shows may have the Japanese primarily in mind (for now). But its quirks, since even its inception, come from a unique mish-mash of the East and West. Literally, anime culture.
Mar 17, 11:06 PM

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Apr 2022
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Reply to foxsurprise
Op, you're saying negative talking points as if it's cultural and not just bad storytelling techniques. What you're describing is just bad anime.

Anyways, looking at MAL threads in general, a lot of talking points that gets brought up coincide with anime culture, not Japanese. And even then, it's not super common to have all those talking points present in an anime.

Anime as a word came from an English loanword and was heavily inspired by disney in style and story, which isn't exactly Japanese. And while anime is heavily catered for Japanese, there are many quirks that exist in anime that don't exist in other Japanese media. Seriously, watch some Japanese movies like Tampopo, Blue Spring, Tokyo Story, etc. like I have, and you'll see that anime stands out from the rest. And it's not a bad thing.

In other words, the shows may have the Japanese primarily in mind (for now). But its quirks, since even its inception, come from a unique mish-mash of the East and West. Literally, anime culture.
@foxsurprise hey I pretty much agree with you and in many ways there’s anime that dont even have anime tropes in them. But I do want to point out one thing.

> Seriously, watch some Japanese movies like Tampopo, Blue Spring, Tokyo Story, etc. like I have, and you'll see that anime stands out from the rest.

Have you seen a modern Japanese film though? I’m not talking about award winning ones like Perfect days, but rather films like Demon city, Violence action, kaguya sama, etc?

These films do share similar tropes with anime.
Mar 18, 3:44 AM

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Jul 2019
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That's for a different audience, but it doesn't matter, because it's still a kind of media, and people must give their opinions about it regardless of the topic (IMO btw).
I think the only thing people need to understand is that because being different cultures, it doesn't work that well compare these shows to western shows 'cause of the things you mentioned and much more.


Mar 18, 7:06 AM

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Feb 2018
573
Reply to Runasius
@foxsurprise hey I pretty much agree with you and in many ways there’s anime that dont even have anime tropes in them. But I do want to point out one thing.

> Seriously, watch some Japanese movies like Tampopo, Blue Spring, Tokyo Story, etc. like I have, and you'll see that anime stands out from the rest.

Have you seen a modern Japanese film though? I’m not talking about award winning ones like Perfect days, but rather films like Demon city, Violence action, kaguya sama, etc?

These films do share similar tropes with anime.
@Runasius
I feel that since all three are manga adaptations (manga images in spoiler), there's bound to be more similarities between it and anime, especially for its genre and technique in adaptation. Plus, aside from Kaguya-sama, they aren't something general audiences typically flock to.

There's many live action adaptations that aren't from manga. And even those that do adapt it often, like shojosei, are typically more subdued in their depictions to the point that the anime equivalent may not fit. They aren't going to be balls to the wall abrasive like Violence Action. So while a few do cross that line, anime is a culture of its own
Apr 14, 5:21 PM
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May 2015
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To make a statement like that implies otakus need to see more non-anime material.

But Japanese and Western cultures/media have always been different, even with the long history of anime across borders.


To give examples and to be as neutral as possible:

Japan's an imperial land of islands that were generally isolated, while America is that land of liberty and democracy that hosts as many peoples (immigrants, exiles, fortune-hunters) as it can.

Japan holds a distinclty militant culture, which perhaps contributes to their stunning action manga. America employs comparatively more diplomacy. Japan historically had merchants as lower-class citizens - America thrives on industry and trade.

Japan is primarily Buddhist, which speaks of fate and destiny and being trapped within life until you can break free. America is Christian, which believes in plain salvation.

Japan's heroes are primarily rebellious (Straw Hat Pirates, Lupin III the thief adventurer and Lady Oscar who turned on her masters and became a revolutionary). American heroes are as lawful as possible with the belief of great power, great responsibility (Superman, Spider-Man).

Mental issues are hushed up in Japan. They are openly discussed elswehere. There are links on this.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThereAreNoTherapists
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2018-04-25/.130677

A few Japanese romances work on fake romances becoming real (Nisekoi, I'm Getting Married to A Girl I Hate), or some sort of weird over-dramatic or over-comedic situation that's completely unnatural. Then again, romance tales are generally overly emotional.


But this is speaking in general terms here. There are exceptions to these differences: America has had Japanese-inspired stories like Samurai Jack and Frank Miller's Wolverine ronin comic, while Japan has its own Western-style heroes like the Joestar family (Jotaro is a hafu on his mom's side) and All Might from My Hero Academia.
Apr 14, 5:41 PM

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May 2024
103
Well we all sometimes need reminders who the target audience is?
This could explain how Rent a GF is on a multi season streak despite it being....mid
I'm new!
Apr 14, 6:00 PM

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Aug 2017
11838
I don't mind Anime changing trends/genres popularity like when mecha was a thing for example or even how its made -either cel animation, digital animation or AI- but Anime must be mostly or all for Japanese audiences. Anyone trying to change Anime to push their political Western agenda: by trolling saying "Anime = all animation" despite the Japanese people still call western animation as cartoon just to falsely label their woke cartoon as Anime or anyone who want to downplay or erase Japanese elements in Anime is just racism at this point. I'm tired of tourists showing their hatred towards Japanese people, Japanese culture, Japanese media and Japan in general in different forms. This is why as a human being, I'll defend Anime and Japan from the West at all costs.
BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity.

In Nippon, we trust.

We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本
Apr 14, 6:06 PM

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May 2015
2576
Reply to Haneken2086
To make a statement like that implies otakus need to see more non-anime material.

But Japanese and Western cultures/media have always been different, even with the long history of anime across borders.


To give examples and to be as neutral as possible:

Japan's an imperial land of islands that were generally isolated, while America is that land of liberty and democracy that hosts as many peoples (immigrants, exiles, fortune-hunters) as it can.

Japan holds a distinclty militant culture, which perhaps contributes to their stunning action manga. America employs comparatively more diplomacy. Japan historically had merchants as lower-class citizens - America thrives on industry and trade.

Japan is primarily Buddhist, which speaks of fate and destiny and being trapped within life until you can break free. America is Christian, which believes in plain salvation.

Japan's heroes are primarily rebellious (Straw Hat Pirates, Lupin III the thief adventurer and Lady Oscar who turned on her masters and became a revolutionary). American heroes are as lawful as possible with the belief of great power, great responsibility (Superman, Spider-Man).

Mental issues are hushed up in Japan. They are openly discussed elswehere. There are links on this.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThereAreNoTherapists
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2018-04-25/.130677

A few Japanese romances work on fake romances becoming real (Nisekoi, I'm Getting Married to A Girl I Hate), or some sort of weird over-dramatic or over-comedic situation that's completely unnatural. Then again, romance tales are generally overly emotional.


But this is speaking in general terms here. There are exceptions to these differences: America has had Japanese-inspired stories like Samurai Jack and Frank Miller's Wolverine ronin comic, while Japan has its own Western-style heroes like the Joestar family (Jotaro is a hafu on his mom's side) and All Might from My Hero Academia.
@Haneken2086 Japan is primarily Shinto not Buddhist. 48% Shinto 46% Buddhist
Apr 14, 7:56 PM

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Aug 2017
11838
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
BilboBaggins365 said:
Anime =/= Japan lol. Tons of people in Japan hate otaku culture. And yeah, you don't have to bow down before Japanese greatness to enjoy their pop culture. I mean I enjoy plenty of American pop culture and I have tons of problems with that country, especially of late. Only this overly sensitive xenophobic community, would actually argue, that if you don't like exposition it's because you don't respect Japanese culture. I would love to see that applied in other spheres, where foreign culture is consumed lol. You don't like buff action hero movies? You hate America!

I may be a "tourist" however, at least I am not a weeb pathetically self deprecating myself, for some culture that isn't mine. OP and you are up here with some of the most annoying posters on this site. We don't need to be weebs to enjoy anime.


As someone of Asian descent, it is hilariously hypocritical to see posters like the user you're replying to accuse critics of being "tourists" to their theme park fantasy world Japan. Especially considering that a good deal of the continent has very justified animosity towards Japan due to their colonial history, which they still promote in a lot of their media.
@MelodyOfMemory Hey, please don't xenophobic towards Japanese people just for being born in Japan, they had nothing to do with their colonial past since most didn't even exist and the few ones alive are either too old now or were too young at that time, no one should be discriminated against for things they never did.

You should know being pro-Japanese (liking their culture, being annoyed people being xenophobic against Japanese people, etc) have nothing to do with defending their colonial past especially when we're NOT talking about history, we're talking about Anime, there are DIFFERENT ways of liking a country which don't imply supporting coloniasm. It's so silly implying if someone loves Japan = support their colonial past. I've seen many comments implying or just saying if you love Japanese things, you support 100% their actions when they were an Empire which its like saying if you like Germany now or their culture, etc it means you support Nazis. If Europe could could separate the Nazi government from Germany which they has very justified animosity too, Asian countries (which don't even all hate Japan in the first place, in fact sometimes depends of the gov in charge) can do the same with Japanese people and their former Empire. The Empire of Japan not longer exists. It's very important to remember the past but its important to stop seeing the same country and people as a mortal enemy all the time especially when YOU consume media of a country and people you hate so much. Many countries have several wars with the neighbors countries and now they are in much better terms especially in Europe. Not even USA hates the UK so much like they used to do.

It's not "hilariously hypocritical" to defend a country and their people against racism and xenophobic comments. I absolutely despise comments saying Japan should be nuked again due a fictional content in Anime they consider "problematic" or Americans of all people falsely saying Japan is the worst country in the "world" for "women, minorities, blacks" when its obviously not true. I'm tired of people blaming Japan for everything especially by other Asians when you people are much closer in many things to Japan due both being Asians and has more things in common with them than the West. I don't know if you're someone living in Asia or just an American or European of Asian descent anyways but please don't justify xenophobia against anyone for being born there.

That's why WE are mad when tourists say such things about Japan especially "nuking Japan again" comments which its absolutely disgusting and it should be even illegal.

That's why we're against anti-Japanese sentiment. Let's stop the cycle of hate.
NurguburuApr 14, 8:02 PM
BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity.

In Nippon, we trust.

We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本
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