Are there "difficult" anime?

For me:

Three Ikuhara Kunihiko creations: Utena, Yuri Kuma and Penguindrum. Tons of metaphor. Utena's a masterpiece the other two are confusing messes that made my eyes glaze over more than once.

Haibane Renmei. More metaphorical stuff. Headed straight to some blogs to figure out wtf I really watched.

Ergo Proxy. I mean, wtf.

A few oddballs:

A couple of the Kara no Kyoukai (aka Garden of Sinners) movies. Mystery genre in general I can't be bothered figuring out on the go. I don't watch anime to think, there's chess or some other game for that.

Kokoro Connect I dropped after 3 episodes because I was getting annoyed getting confused who was who (it's a body-swapping situation).

Maria-sama ga Miteru episode one was confusing with all the official titles of the student council thrown at me plus flashbacks of the 1st day events interrupting the flow. I didn't get to episode 2 until I had a character org chart readied and had re-watched Ep. 1 so armed. Marimite's since become my #1 overall but that 1st episode could've been better produced.

Saki. They try to explain the Mahjong hands being played but that's hard to pick up on the go.

Subtitle related:

Tatami Galaxy often had really long subtitles to read quickly which I had to pause and rewind several times.

Kill la Kill I put back into PTW after a couple of episodes of having a hard time reading the subtitles while trying not to miss the fight scenes. I'd probably be ok now after years of anime watching since.

What the hell is "difficult" or "challenge yourself" even supposed to mean here. It sounds mostly like smartass talk to me.

And old works of literature are difficult to read because of differences in language. Classical works like Shakespeare were written centuries ago. English from that era was completely different from english in 21st century; actually to a point where it could be considered a different language even. If you want to read original Shakespeare today you will have to study the english of that era first.

"Are there "difficult" anime?"

Yep, some are harder to interpret.
Sony Boy is not even that difficult, since everything is explained, you just need to pay attention. In comparison Tenshi no Tamago is opened to interpretation, despite having some obvious references (Noah's Ark, the girl looking adult in the reflection ect ect). And there's Ghost In The Shell Innocence by the same director which is chock full with literary quotes - chances are you wouldn't recognize and understand their relevance to the plot (well, I couldn't, since I didn't read any of those).

Maybe Paprika to a degree.
Fuyu no Hi since it's about poetry...and i don't get poetry, especially chinese poetry.
Inaka Isha - because Kafka.


Like mostly experimental stuff, which is meant to be a bit harder to get.

From what I've seen, Tatami Galaxy and Heike Monogatari, maybe. Unusual story structure, rapid monologues, obscure references and assumed knowledge of Japanese history and culture.

I've also often heard about Monogatari series being difficult (and difficult to like), but I haven't seen that for myself yet...

@Captain-577 I think the idea is that the works have more than one meaning. Moby Dick is not just about hunting a particular whale. Homer's Odyssey is not just an adventure story with monsters.

If it's well done this makes for a good read which can be revisited as the reader ages and gains more experience of life and therefore more appreciation of the layers.

But it can make the first read difficult at least in the sense of not getting why some things are happening or understanding the deeper motivation of certain characters.

It's not about "old timey" language.

@therealnagora but that's true to almost every good story, not necessarily difficult ones
Digimon tamers tackles many themes beneath the surface that you gain more appreciation growing up yet I don't think anyone will claim it to be particularly difficult
What makes something difficult is it's presentation, 100 years of solitude is more difficult than catcher in the rye due to how the story is presented though both are very well written and layered

the only reason classic literature is "difficult" is because of the language. Dickens or Shakespeare might be a tough read nowadays, but they both wrote for the masses. it's the pop literature of their time.

but of course there are works of art that are inherently and purposefully more difficult to grasp. there are movies like Tenet and Inception that do require you to at least pay attention to fully understand what is going on. and those works exist in all areas of art, even anime.

Humanity has declined is a really weird slife-of-lifey story with no temporal structure between episodes, so I definitely would classify that as "difficult" in a sense.

The Monogatari Series is also notorious with how some of its wordplays are difficult to grasp even by native Japenese speakers. even after having watched most of it multiple times, there are new details I discover every time.

and I'd say Grave of the Fireflies is also a "difficult" watch simply by the fact that it is just brutally depressing and not something anyone should do if their goal is to have a bit of fun entertainment.

@Captain-577
@Lucifrost
The context is this, BTW:
https://x.com/breezeoadores/status/1899196609470292211/quotes

This is not a point in favor...this is how the meathead character who explain the whole Ape Baseball thing, sees this situation...


This is how relative the values in certain group are. Pretty much reminds me what I have personally experienced in school.




You are not supposed to like it or even the show (or the book, or whatever) is not supposed to be objectively good.
"Difficult" is quite literally - you need to put extra effort to understand what the author is saying (which is not always that deep).

@thewiru
The link you provided doesn't work.

I would say so. It can be difficult for a whole range of reasons.

Say Gilgamesh or Texhnolyze. The subject matter could be off putting, the art is unusual to the point of being unsettling, the screaming and just pain particularly in Texhnolyze are not easy watching, Made in Abyss similarly.

Some shows might be difficult because their plots or the viewer's understanding of what is going on is just all over the place, experimental anime like say Lain or Boogiepop... some shows are just intentionally obtuse like err, the grand reveal is at the end is a mathematical proof like say Subete ga F.

Some shows are challenging because MC is not relatable, they do not fit neatly into good guy or bad guy and it becomes a morally disjointing experience, you might think well they have baby brains then, but err... not everyone has time to watch something that doesn't just feel like a pleasant release you know.

Some shows have unusual sound direction or acting that is just unsettling.

Some shows are just the creator's thinly disguised fetish.

Somethings are just gross, not everyone has the desire or indeed the stomach for the more surreal Japanese body horror lol


So yea... it's a thing and not everyone likes everything... sometimes for simple reasons, sometimes for complex ones, sometimes for wholly idiosyncratic nonsense ones lol



Should people challenge themselves? I would give different answers on different days. *shrug*

@Lucifrost
TIL that you can't see QRTs without an account.
Also, the original person who posted it privated their account.

I never got why people found Boogiepop difficult.

It just requires you to know about the first (And maybe the third) arcs of the novel, and everything becomes clear.
Granted, I once found a version on YouTube that scrambled the scenes around, so maybe people watched that?

I'm pretty sure the anime was translated before the novel. Even if the novel was translated first, most viewers haven't read it.

I never got why people found Boogiepop difficult.

It just requires you to know about the first (And maybe the third) arcs of the novel, and everything becomes clear.
Granted, I once found a version on YouTube that scrambled the scenes around, so maybe people watched that?

@thewiru have you read the rest of the light novel? once we reach the vol 7 (which by the way not release in English) it get wild once we met the Towa organization executive even had a spin off of Walpurgis regret and Beat's Disciples

And this is why I said "to a degree". Yes, the story is pretty straightforward and the mystery kind of obvious, even cliche.
But the psychological aspects were a bit more complex than in your standard thriller.



Not sure what you are getting at, that dude was kind of simple minded. The whole Ape Baseball was about how double standards work from the perspective of a person who doesn’t get the idea, thus it's a mystery to him, why the monkey was killed. He blindly relives that the crowd has a sense of justice.